EV Digest 5809
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Building a controller yourself
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) GVWR Honda Fit
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Compound motor confounding me
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Need GVWR for Honda Civic hatchback
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Wheel motors
by Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 48v-12v DC-DC on ebay $10 ea
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: RPM Team Status Report
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Building a controller yourself
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: "Final Discharge Voltage"
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Wheel motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Compound motor confounding me
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New to list and question about Etek motor
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Still batteries
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Wheel motors
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Valence-powered EV on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) STM-180 in SoCal
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) RE: Cheap EV motor
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) SMARTcar on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) RE: Cheap EV motor
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
To prevent arcing in a drum controller, there is a large resistor that is as
big as a car radiator with multiple taps. I happen to have one of these
resistors in stock.
There is six contact positions in the forward drum which the contacts make
the next contact before the last one break.
The Forward Drum:
The first contact is off - No connection. This Off position is interlock
with a reversing drum so the forward drum does not work while the reversing
drum is on.
The second contact position connects the battery in series with the field
poles that is in series with the resistor which is connected to the
armature.
The third contact position connects the battery in series with the field
poles which is connected to the armature, shunting the resistor.
The fourth contact position connects the battery to the resistor which is in
parallel with the fields that are in series with each other and connected to
the armature.
The fifth contact position the fields are connected in parallel with out the
resistance which is connected to the armature and to the battery.
The sixth contact position all the fields are in parallel with the resistor
connected to the armature and then to the battery.
The Reverse Drum switches the armature and field windings which connects a
tap position on the resistor for slower speed, which is in series with the
field series together and than series with the armature and batteries.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: Building a controller yourself
> The 1912 Detroit uses a large drum with heavy copper contacts and carbon
> brushes. As the drum is rotated by the throttle lever (not peddle) it
> changes the battery configuration. It's worked for 94 years and counting.
>
> Lawrence
>
> Mike Chancey wrote:
> > How did the early electric cars handle the controller issue? I know
> > they used voltage switching, series, parallel and such, but since the
> > didn't use actual solenoid type contactors, how did they work?
> > Sliding contacts or some such? Could such a thing be built at home
> > today? How do you prevent arcing?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Chancey,
> > '88 Civic EV
> > Kansas City, Missouri
> > EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> > My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> > Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> > Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
> >
> > In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> > position. (Horace)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone asked about GVWR of a Honda Civic -
it would be great to have a lead on
a reliable source for this info -
ConsumerGuide.com sometimes has curb and gvwr on one page,
but not for every car.
Someone mentioned Honda Fit to me,
and I looked a few places and did not find GVWR
Curb Weight is about 2400 lb.
Thanks
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After taking a closer look at the Kewet's
Thrige-Titan motor, I doubt I can use
the series field at all while using a sepex controller: the shunt field has one
end in common with it (i.e. if D1-D2 is the series, and E1-E2 is the shunt,
D1=E1). This means if the series field is used, even if only from take-off, the
field control will have contact with full pack voltage - I assume this part of
the controller runs at a lower voltage. If so, pure sepex drive may not be the
best use for this compound motor.
Can anyone give me an educated guess as to whether my assumptions are correct?
I wonder if I need to send the motor off to Jim H. for a rewind to a straight
shunt field...
I Googled the motor and got a look at one and it looks like a decent sized
motor. I've never seen one though so have no idea how they're wound inside.
Now for terminology goes I've always known shunted, compound, and sepex to be
three different animals. The shunted motors I see have two strap or series
wound fields with two shunt wound coils using fine wire. These are used in
pump motors where a even speed is wanted like power steering motors and some
main pump types. Compound wound to me is a motor where all four fields are
wound with both a strap (series) wound coils with the shunt wire wound around
that core. The sepex's I've seen all have wire about twice as thick as that
used as shunt coils with all four coils being the same wire size. Anyway this
is how I term it just so we can be on the same page and to thoughs like Lee is
this correct?
To ask a question why don't you split that common connection and add two
seperate terminals? would you be able to continue your previous plan then? Be
an easy fix if so, just a thought. My other question is do you know if it is
by my definition a shunted or compound wound field? I ask because if actually
a shunt motor maybe you could find a damaged motor and steal the shunts from it
for the other two pair of coils and then just scrap the strap wound pair. If
it's compound then thats not an option. Just throwing some thoughts your way
before you abandon your first plan. Makes me want to pop your motor apart to
take a little looksie at what's exactly inside, hehe.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Should be in the door jam. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Need GVWR for Honda Civic hatchback
> Ed wrote:
> >I'm looking for the GVWR for a 1990 Honda Civic Hatchback. Don't
> >seem to find it online anywhere. Anyone know the answer?
>
> Both my '88 Civic hatchbacks are marked 3020 pounds. A 1990 should
> be about the same.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
> position. (Horace)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's CCW rotation. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
> I ordered one.
> I'll let you know what arrives.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> >
> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> >
> > And, it's compound wound!
> >
> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone looked at the wheel motors from PML Flightlink?
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/EW20_60.html
They have a demo cooper mini hybrid with 4 2280Watt motors.
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/news.html
They also sell higher power motors but the GEM controller seems quite
small. (72V)
-Robert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim would you like to chime in here? Thanks a bunch. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> >
> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> >
> > And, it's compound wound!
> >
> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
30 Vicor DC-DC converters are on ebay. Item 280021810309
This guy has a truckful it seems, been selling them in 10-30 lots.
These are 48v to 12v, 150-watt. The last batch of 30 sold for $174,
that is less than $10 each.
I certainly don't need 30 of them. An issue is 12v output will not be
enough, they can be trimmed higher, but vicor recommends max of 10%,
although they give an example of 20%, which is what is needed to get
13.7v output.
Has anyone trimmed these units higher, and anyone want to buy some if I
buy the lot?
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Busy email night for me tonight, had to go eat a little dinner 8^ )
I saw this post earlier and did want to say I went and checked it out. Looks
like a good motor, just might have to buy myself one, hehe. Get an album on
how I mod it to run both ways and such if in fact it's a pump not a drive 8^ )
I was busy at work today so I need to go back and take another look.
The price is awesome but it's the freight that'll punch my budget a bit
passed what I'd care for just after an event. Lee is correct in that this
ain't no 2 HP motor 8^ ) This is a good sized motor capable of good loads and
GE makes a really good motor on larger motors. I don't care for their 6" sizes
compared to ADC or Prestolite (don't get me started) but their big motors are
made really well. Anyone in the Oregon area want one too, we can share the
freight on a pair, hehe. Jim's two thumbs up !!
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim would you like to chime in here? Thanks a bunch. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>
> --- Lee Hart wrote:
>
> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> >
> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> >
> > And, it's compound wound!
> >
> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt Kenigson wrote:
Hey guys! I was wondering where you guys would be. It might be worth the
6hr drive from Nashville to come see WZ and DR and the crew.
Matt
Hi Matt
We really appreciate your interest.
All info is available here-
http://www.aera.org/rpm/attend/index.html
We would love to see EVers show up for moral support.
We will be literally surrounded by engine blocks and engine builders :^0
I was a drag racing fan and ICE mechanic for many years before I got into
the EV/RE industries.
Many drag racing stars will be there. Shirley Muldowney will be a keynote
speaker. I am hoping to meet her :^D
Cya There!
Roy
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All this talk reminds me of a rather crazy idea I had for a high powered
cheap controller. Drag racing on the cheap?
I called it sparky and you will know why in a minute.
Imagine 2 commutators, or one very long one, with wide bars back to back
on a shaft. (this is where I got hung up, I needed wide bars like 24
bars on a 4" comm and couldn't find them)
Bars are connected 1:1 on the other comm and each has a moveable brush
rigging 0 to 45 degrees on one 45 to 90 on the other.
This comm is rotated with a scooter sized motor at whatever RPM is
determined to be optimum for the brushes.
Power comes in one set of brushes and goes out the other set, They are
at 45 degrees to each other when both riggings are at "zero" . This is
zero duty cycle. As the brush rigging is moved by the go pedal there is
a small amount of overlap accross the wide edge of the brush * the 8
brushes and a small duty cycle is set up with the motor's inductance
integrating it.
Now for the second Adjustable Brush Rigging(ABR):
A relativly high resistance shunt is used to generate enough voltage at
high amps to pull on a solenoid against an adjustable spring. (perhaps a
normal shunt and an op amp driven transistor) This solenoid pulls the
second brush rigging away, decreaseing the duty cycle once the current
limiter is reached.
Care would have to be taken that there be a main contactor that is only
pulled in after the scooter motor is spinning or the fuse would blow.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To confuse you more:
DOD (or SOC)% doesn't tell you if you really still can drive.
If your gas tank is 100% empty you stop no matter what.
If your battery is 100% empty for given load, it is not
really empty for different (lighter) load.
Commonly accepted value for 12V lead battery for 100% DOD
is 10.5V under load. Question is what load? Reduce your
speed and voltage springs back above 10.5V so it is not "empty"
anymore.
In contrast, consider high current demand as for drag racing.
Very freshly charged battery sags below 10.5V right off the bat,
so it is by definition already 100% discharged *for that load*
and so can't be used :-)
Other experiment: charge it completely, 100% full.
Cool it off to about freezing temp, so internal resistance
is higher. try to drive and voltage sags below 10.5V even
under moderate loads. Does this mean the battery is "empty?"
According to the blind definition of <10.5V @ your load, yes,
but it is not emptier than the same SOC but warm battery.
You often will hear that it must be >10.5V for "meaningful
for EV driving load", not like 500mA or so. The problem is,
that meaningful load is different for you and me. Give me your
battery at its 100% DOD state, and I will be able to drive
10-15 more miles before it gets <10.5V *per my load, in my
vehicle".
10.5V is arbitrary number settled to establish common definition
of 100% DOD, but it is not "make or brake" number as far as actual
driving goes. You can sag well below (again, see drag racing example)
and be perfectly OK as long as amount of Ah removed is not approaching
actual capacity.
Now, definition of capacity is just as fuzzy... :-)
Victor
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Calvin,
DOD is Depth of Discharge.
A 50% DOD is the same as 50% SOC State of Charge or can be known as 50%
Percentage of Charge.
A 20% DOD is the same as 80% SOC or battery is still 80% charge.
A 6 volt battery that is at 100% Percentage of Charge should read 6.37 volts
at a Specific Gravity at 1.277.
At 50% DOD or SOC or Percentage of charge it should
read 6.05 at 1.172 Specific Gravity.
This is at no load or Open circuit voltage.
One source I used for this data is from:
http://www.trojanbattery.com/customercare_batterymaint4.html
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Calvin King" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 3:28 PM
Subject: "Final Discharge Voltage"
One of the many things that is still confusing to me is the DOD issue.
What is the "Final Discharge Voltage" for a 6 volt battery at 50%
DOD? When should this voltage be measured to know when 50% DOD has
been reached?
Calvin King
81 Jet Electrica 108V
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
The motors might be awesome but...
Statements like this turn me off:
>Regenerative braking recovers almost all energy (I didn't know that was
possible!)
>Emissions are zero for four hours (at what speed and distance?)
IMO super hype on the sales approach even if they are in fact good motors.
On another note, even being a motor guy, having no mechanical brakes kind of
freaks me out 8^ o
Just writing that makes me want to push my foot down harder like I can't
stop, hehe
Just my two grains of salt
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Has anyone looked at the wheel motors from PML Flightlink?
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/EW20_60.html
They have a demo cooper mini hybrid with 4 2280Watt motors.
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/news.html
They also sell higher power motors but the GEM controller seems quite
small. (72V)
-Robert
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what about item 10-1422, same page?
I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor... would be
fantastic if you could
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Hey all
Busy email night for me tonight, had to go eat a little dinner 8^ )
I saw this post earlier and did want to say I went and checked it out.
Looks like a good motor, just might have to buy myself one, hehe. Get an
album on how I mod it to run both ways and such if in fact it's a pump not a
drive 8^ ) I was busy at work today so I need to go back and take another
look.
The price is awesome but it's the freight that'll punch my budget a bit
passed what I'd care for just after an event. Lee is correct in that this
ain't no 2 HP motor 8^ ) This is a good sized motor capable of good loads
and GE makes a really good motor on larger motors. I don't care for their
6" sizes compared to ADC or Prestolite (don't get me started) but their big
motors are made really well. Anyone in the Oregon area want one too, we can
share the freight on a pair, hehe. Jim's two thumbs up !!
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim would you like to chime in here? Thanks a bunch. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
--- Lee Hart wrote:
> I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
>
> DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
>
> Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
>
> And, it's compound wound!
>
> Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> good candidate for a cheap EV!
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I Googled the motor and got a look at one and it looks like a decent
sized motor. I've never seen one though so have no idea how they're
wound inside. Now for terminology goes I've always known shunted,
compound, and sepex to be three different animals. The shunted motors
I see have two strap or series wound fields with two shunt wound coils
using fine wire. These are used in pump motors where a even speed is
wanted like power steering motors and some main pump types. Compound
wound to me is a motor where all four fields are wound with both a
strap (series) wound coils with the shunt wire wound around that core.
The sepex's I've seen all have wire about twice as thick as that used
as shunt coils with all four coils being the same wire size. Anyway
this is how I term it just so we can be on the same page and to
thoughs like Lee is this correct?
>
I have absolutely *no* idea what's inside! The studs for D1/E1, D2,
A1, and A2 are all the same size, with E2 a much smaller one. D1 to E2
reads the same resistance as D2 to E2, but my Fluke only reads to 0.1
ohms. Any idea how you'd rewind this to get maximum torque with a
field current that maxes out at 50A?
> To ask a question why don't you split that common connection and
add two seperate terminals? would you be able to continue your
previous plan then? Be an easy fix if so, just a thought. My other
question is do you know if it is by my definition a shunted or
compound wound field? I ask because if actually a shunt motor maybe
you could find a damaged motor and steal the shunts from it for the
other two pair of coils and then just scrap the strap wound pair. If
it's compound then thats not an option. Just throwing some thoughts
your way before you abandon your first plan. Makes me want to pop
your motor apart to take a little looksie at what's exactly inside, hehe.
>
*I* certainly won't be popping this puppy open. I'd send you the
motor, but unless someone can tell me how to unmate it from the
transaxle, you'd get them both! I'm waiting to see what the engineer
from ZAPI says about my idea since I gave him more of the motor's
specs. I don't know what voltage the field side runs, but isn't it
usually quite a bit lower (12-15Vdc)? The idea of D1=E1 worries me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> what about item 10-1422, same page?
> I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor...
would be
> fantastic if you could
>
This brings up an interesting motor question: the 48v series motor is
rated 113A for 1hr, while the 24v compound motor is rated 72A
continuous. Wouldn't the compound motor handle a lot more than 113A
for 1hr, and if it's 149lbs, shouldn't it be stout enough for 3krpm
from a 72V setup (or even more)? It's certainly a better deal per pound!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe 2 eteks in a tubular dune buggy ??
No trans
belt reduction to the VW cv joint ??
Dual Perm motor or marselectric motor might be better ...
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> A single etek is too weak, won't work.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:52 PM
> Subject: New to list and question about Etek motor
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been researching making an EV for commuting and am glad to
find
> > this list. I'm sure I'll be able to find out most if not all of
what I
> > need in the way of information here.
> >
> > One site I've found is an EV calculation page by Uve
> > (http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html) One of the
most
> > interesting motors to use is the B&S Etek. Looks like the ideal
motor.
> > Too bad it's not available any more, though a check on Ebay
found a
> > recent auction for a pair of Etek motors.
> >
> > My question is, is the Etek really capable of powering an EV.
Say I
> > want to convert a Ford Escort or a VW Fastback, both cars that
I'm
> > considering. Would the Etek really work or is there something
I'm
> > missing? Using the Etek in the calculations makes it look like
the
> > perfect motor for long distance driving, good highway speed,
able to
> > leap tall buildings in a single bound (my home is at the top of
a 2
> > mile/8% grade climb. Is this real or imaginary? If imaginary,
what
> > motor will work for my conditions?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ed Stevens
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What were the shipping charges on the motor?
Rich in Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
> I ordered one.
> I'll let you know what arrives.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> >
> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> >
> > And, it's compound wound!
> >
> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The theory goes like this....(experts please correct this as needed)
rule 1) watts is watts (Volts times Amps)
lets say I am in need of 40 HP which is about 30Kw
at 96V that is 312 Amps
at 120V that is 250 Amps
at 144V that is 208 Amps
"If all other variables are constant" could mean either 8 or 10 or 12 of
the same battery in which the
96V will sag more at 312 amps than the 120 will at 250 amps than the
144V will at the 208 amps. Or...
It could also meen more but smaller batteries for the same Watt-hours on
board. That tends to balance out the effect of sagging as the smaller
batteries at the higher voltage sag more than the larger batteries would
at the lower voltage.
Then there is the other side of the equation.
rule 2) all motors are generators at the same time as being motors. (E=I*R)
As an illustration, lets say an ADC 9" motor
torque is .0085*i^ 1.55
Volts = (120 * rpm) / ((46264/torque^.907) +2068)
at 0 rpm, volts is zero and with an example .25 ohm resistance and a 96
volt pack that is 384 amps or 86 lb ft
At 120 V that is 480Amps and 121 lb ft of torque
At 144V the motor will allow 576Amps or 161 lb ft of torque.
Now the motor spins up and its voltage rises lets look at 3000 rpm and
50lb.ft that would be 105V
in the 96V version there is only 96 volts, therefore less than 50 lb ft
is avail
in the 120V version there is 15V avail to pull an additional 60 amps for
5 lb ft more torque, you slowly accelerate
in the 144V version there is 39V avail for 156Amps 21 lb ft more, you
accelerate better.
This was an over simplification, but I hope it makes the point. The
other compounding problems are that the sag will make things even worse
and so will higher amp draws as they heat things up. We want to make
torque, not heat.
I think the magic number is 170V, That is the limit of the commuttor in
most uses, If your pack minus sag is greater than that, then you can't
feel the sag effecting your power and as the pack discharges your
performance won't degrade obnoxiously.
So if 170 is a dead pack under load that is 10V on a 12V battery to be
safe that is 17 batteries. 17*12 is 204V nominal pack and the max charge
voltage is 251V, this could enable sneaky battery chargeing tricks like
bad boys and split pack opertunity charging.,
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8679/motor.html
lets look at 0,2500,3500 rpm at each pack voltage
So at a dead stop, the generated voltage is zero, the applied voltage is
96 and I = E/R gives us 192 amps for a decent that is 384 amps off the
line. Let us say that at 2500 rpm the motors
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These were discussed extremely briefly back on 3Jul06 under Aubj: RE: Hummmm
Look at this. Anyone "seen" one?
I think they were seenbut didn't get much play.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Robert Baertsch
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:25 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Wheel motors
>
>
> Has anyone looked at the wheel motors from PML Flightlink?
>
> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/EW20_60.html
>
> They have a demo cooper mini hybrid with 4 2280Watt motors.
>
> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/news.html
>
> They also sell higher power motors but the GEM controller seems quite
> small. (72V)
>
>
> -Robert
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone know of these folks? They're in Canada:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300022677936
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I ended up pumping .6ah into each 19 cell box with my nicad/nimh
chargers. They cells were shipped shorted. It gave them enough power
that when I connected them in series they could power the truck long
enough for it to start charging. It takes a while as the charger tapers
from a -1.7 amps to something above zero. Right now they are at 6 amps.
I set the Emeter back to Amp hours and it's making about 6ah per hour.
So from 9pm to 6 am will be 54 ah. I'll see if they are gassing much
and decide then if going to 60ah is ok. All of this is happening in the
bed of the truck until the other 24 cells arrive.
Mike
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those who don't recognize, it's a 180Ah SAFT6V NiCd battery. The eBay
listing is for just one, but he mentions he has "many":
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320022561131
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Then there's also the Wilderness EV special, item 6-936 on page 146.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mark McCurdy
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:31 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> what about item 10-1422, same page?
> I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor... would be
> fantastic if you could
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> Hey all
>
> Busy email night for me tonight, had to go eat a little dinner 8^ )
> I saw this post earlier and did want to say I went and checked it out.
> Looks like a good motor, just might have to buy myself one, hehe. Get an
> album on how I mod it to run both ways and such if in fact it's a pump not a
> drive 8^ ) I was busy at work today so I need to go back and take another
> look.
> The price is awesome but it's the freight that'll punch my budget a bit
> passed what I'd care for just after an event. Lee is correct in that this
> ain't no 2 HP motor 8^ ) This is a good sized motor capable of good loads
> and GE makes a really good motor on larger motors. I don't care for their
> 6" sizes compared to ADC or Prestolite (don't get me started) but their big
> motors are made really well. Anyone in the Oregon area want one too, we can
> share the freight on a pair, hehe. Jim's two thumbs up !!
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim would you like to chime in here? Thanks a bunch. Lawrence Rhodes......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Cover"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> > Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
> >
> > --- Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> > > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> > >
> > > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> > >
> > > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> > >
> > > And, it's compound wound!
> > >
> > > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > > --
> > > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > > --
> > > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
> rates.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's rated to get only 40mpg from a 700cc engine? Doesn't sound very
aerodynamic:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160024644297
Needs that ICE crap yanked out and a little EV-ing instead!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I heard some vehicles have CCW engines - was that Honda's?
And how difficult is it to reverse them?
I have not taken it apart yet - just ordered it,
but smalle motors always only required swapping the
winding connections to run the other way.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:24 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
It's CCW rotation. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
> I ordered one.
> I'll let you know what arrives.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> >
> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> >
> > And, it's compound wound!
> >
> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
