EV Digest 5810
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Drill powered EV
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Drill powered EV
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Drill powered EV
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Danger den magII water pump
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) PMAs (permanent magnet alternators) as motors?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Electric tractors - MotherEarth News
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Wheel motors - speaking of marketing hype
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Copper-Graphite Brushes
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Danger den magII water pump
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Cheap EV motor
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Compound motor confounding me
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Battery cooling (was: Re: 06 NEDRA Late Nite Nationals)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I just got back from my weekly 'sit at Borders and read all the mags' and in
Workbench mag found a company that makes a EV that you can power with a
portable drill. The website is www.dpxsystems.com but there is no info at the
website, so I may have copied the url wrong.
The scooter is small framed and there is a holder for an 18v drill (dewalt
shown, IIRC). There supposedly holders for other drills and they claim 25
mph... no price.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting!! How would it perform I wonder with the Milwaukee 24V LiIons? It
would be a real low battery to weight ratio :-)
Is it the "Drill Powered Mini Bike"?
http://www.dpxsystems.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=184
Its on their main page about halfway down.
Drill Powered Mini Bike Patented Drill Powered Mini Bike with 18 V Drill.
Can be adapted to many battery drills. High Quality
Heli Arched Aluminum Frame, Dual Disk Brakes. Great Product to promote Drill
sales.
Notes & Specs: Weight 28 LBS. Speed 15MPH. Distance on battery charge depends
on battery type and voltage from 2 miles to 6 miles
or more. Front and rear suspension will carry 320 Lb Rider.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Rush
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:59 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Drill powered EV
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I just got back from my weekly 'sit at Borders and read all the mags' and in
> Workbench mag found a company that makes a
> EV that you can power with a portable drill. The website is
> www.dpxsystems.com but there is no info at the website, so
> I may have copied the url wrong.
>
> The scooter is small framed and there is a holder for an 18v drill (dewalt
> shown, IIRC). There supposedly holders for
> other drills and they claim 25 mph... no price.
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Then there's also the Wilderness EV special, item 6-936 on page 146.
>
So how does this one compare with the 24v compound motor that started
this thread in handling higher wattage and overall efficiency? It's
lighter and has a higher amp rating, but that is *output* -- apples to
oranges?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops, I meant the Milwaukee V28 LiIons.
Imagine two cordless drills strapped to a regular bike kinda like this Air
powered version, hehe.
http://www.instructables.com/id/E5OMNXCU2REP2860RS/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:42 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Drill powered EV
>
>
> Interesting!! How would it perform I wonder with the Milwaukee 24V LiIons?
> It would be a real low battery to weight ratio :-)
>
> Is it the "Drill Powered Mini Bike"?
> http://www.dpxsystems.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=184
>
> Its on their main page about halfway down.
>
> Drill Powered Mini Bike Patented Drill Powered Mini Bike with 18 V Drill.
> Can be adapted to many battery drills. High Quality
> Heli Arched Aluminum Frame, Dual Disk Brakes. Great Product to promote Drill
> sales.
> Notes & Specs: Weight 28 LBS. Speed 15MPH. Distance on battery charge depends
> on battery type and voltage from 2 miles
> to 6 miles
> or more. Front and rear suspension will carry 320 Lb Rider.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Rush
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:59 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Drill powered EV
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just got back from my weekly 'sit at Borders and read all the mags' and
> > in Workbench mag found a company that makes a
> > EV that you can power with a portable drill. The website is
> > www.dpxsystems.com but there is no info at the website, so
> > I may have copied the url wrong.
> >
> > The scooter is small framed and there is a holder for an 18v drill (dewalt
> > shown, IIRC). There supposedly holders for
> > other drills and they claim 25 mph... no price.
> >
> > Rush
> > Tucson AZ
> > www.ironandwood.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a good, in-depth review on the Swiftech MCP655 (1/2" pipes):
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-01.html
It's probably the one I'm going to buy for my homebrew AC inverter. I
don't think $70 is too bad for what you get:
http://www.jab-tech.com/product.php?productid=2982
It claims an MTBF of 50,000 hours, or a million miles at 20MPH.
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could one of these be used as a motor
(http://www.survivalunlimited.com/windpower/pmas.htm) and if so, what would you
use as a controller? The SC series lists outputs to 18,000rpm and tolerant of
even higher speeds! I just wonder if these may have no low-end torque, but
can't guess from the curves.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:35 PM 29/08/06 -0700, Jim Husted wrote:
Hey all
<snip>
Okay but why are the back 8's happier (they ain't that happy, but
happier, hehe) than the front nine if in fact they are all seeing the
same current? Is the front 9 taking longer and working harder to swing
the larger diameter of mass? Are the gears just slightly off so that the
8's are fighting the nine a bit. Again a pair of 8's beat a 9 in my line
of thought so the 9 gets hurt more. Are the nines unable to handle
higher current like the 8's do"
G'day Jim, and all
Just some thoughts from the peanut gallery:
The front 9" is going through a gearbox so maybe although he's getting the
same amps as the back 8"s (they're all getting over-amped), just that the
pair of 8"s in the back take so long to get up to that high-RPM/high amps
motor killing range that the race is just about done before they get there,
but the 9" has been there all the way as it gets worked through the gears?
I don't know how the RPMs compare, but if GP has never reached the speed
that the rear motors are geared for, then they may be only just getting
into that killer RPM/amps range at the end of the track. If the rears were
geared down a little to get a harder first 1/8th would they be as bad as
the 9"?
Of course it's easy to throw peanuts, and from this range most of em' would
miss.
$0.02Aus x 0.73 = US$0.0146 you get what its' worth!
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just an article you might find interesting.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Livestock_and_Farming/2006_August_September/Solar-electric_Mowers_TractorsR.
Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
1981 Jet Electrica.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just noticed a nameplate on a competitors pump
motor assembly, 'Rotorless, Brushless, Sealess pump'
Sheesh, don't let the marketing guys put labels on
your product!!!
Rod
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey all
>
> The motors might be awesome but...
>
> Statements like this turn me off:
> >Regenerative braking recovers almost all energy
> (I didn't know that was possible!)
> >Emissions are zero for four hours (at what speed
> and distance?)
>
> IMO super hype on the sales approach even if they
> are in fact good motors.
> On another note, even being a motor guy, having no
> mechanical brakes kind of freaks me out 8^ o
> Just writing that makes me want to push my foot
> down harder like I can't stop, hehe
> Just my two grains of salt
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone looked at the wheel motors from PML
> Flightlink?
>
> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/EW20_60.html
>
> They have a demo cooper mini hybrid with 4 2280Watt
> motors.
>
> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/news.html
>
> They also sell higher power motors but the GEM
> controller seems quite
> small. (72V)
>
>
> -Robert
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls
> to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys,
I didn't mean to imply these were solid copper, I said "copper impregnated
brushes" which means a small percentage <30% are copper. Check out the study
and see what you think. I used these in my cheese wedge a few years ago (well
actually in the 80's) and had good luck with a cooler comm in a direct drive
vehicle. They are mostly graphite required for lubrication but what's
interesting is in the study, the friction losses are lower with the copper
added.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
> Fine Rod..
> I saw the Damn Green fire Balls mySelf and so did all the Gasser at
> Bremerton...
> My (our) home Track.. That was What 3 years ago now???
>
> Say what you will, I had my hand on the brushes, and I know what I
did.
> Infact Rod... I have the very brushes in hand that I am speaking
of....
>
> Jim had to fix your front motor... after.. many brush events.. and
these
> brushes were one of those..Umm tried efforts , and with poor results.
>
> So.. In effect after 3 years.. finally one of the motors that had
these
> brushes in it.. did get to Jim's Capable hands.
> Years after I have done my best and only had you fry my hard won
efforts.
>
> No lies.. at all, a bit of Dramatic editing...And a LOT of truth.
>
> I noticed that the stone gards are off all the motors on Gp again....
> You are the only guy I know that will willingly Screw up motors that
were
> gifted to you.
>
> You had 100 MPH set in your hands this weekend...all you had to do is
make
> a
> run with the Series parallel switch in manual mode.. and Bag your
bragging
> rights.
> Why Rod... did you walk away from a sure thing??
> Need a pair of 600 amp breakers ??... I have a set... but you are
the one
> that is supposed to be selling them....
> They go for about $100 on the Open list.. Breakers.com I think...
>
> Madman
>
> Also Rod.. "Lie" is a very stiff statement.. on the open list.... You
> should
> be alot more carfull in how you use that word.
> Maybe you should have Jim take a Look at the back motors on Gp..it
might
> help.
> Turning the comms to get the Stone Dinks out...might help keep the
brushes
> in contact with the copper.
>
> The whole point here is.. high copper content brushes are NOT what
street
> racers need. In fact they are very Wrong and will wreak the comm in
short
> order.
> Super High copper content brushes are for the very low voltage very
highly
> loaded Lift truck appliactions.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:32 AM
> Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>
>
>>
>> Rich, whenever using my name in a post make damn sure you are
telling the
>> truth. The following statement by you is an out and out lie.
>>
>> Rich said:: "Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire
balls
>> from his motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?"
>>
>> About 8 years ago I tried some 95% copper graphite brushes and did
indeed
>> have some arcing problems. Later I switched to a 33% mixture of
copper
> with
>> much better results. I have not run copper graphite brushes for over
6
>> years. I have only met Jim Husted last year at PIR. Point is not
made
> Rich!
>>
>> Roderick Wilde
>> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
>> www.suckamps.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>>
>>
>> >I wouldn't do that too fast Mark.....
>> >
>> > Copper and graphite are only one of a hand full of ingredients in
brush
>> > material.
>> > For most of us high voltage Ev racers... commutation is the
primary
>> > issue..
>> > not conduction. At 120 volts and higher.. too much copper is a
death
>> > sentance to the commutator because the the poor arc quenching of a
very
>> > low
>> > resistance brush..
>> >
>> > Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls
from his
>> > motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?
>> >
>> > So.. get a brush for your application, ... ask the brush guys...
not
> your
>> > local AC slip ring guy... Big difference!!!
>> >
>> > Have fun... hope you like Green fire!!!
>> >
>> > Madman
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > To: <[email protected]>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:57 AM
>> > Subject: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> I just read a study, google: "Testing of Silver, Copper and
>> > Electro-Graphite Brush Materials for Slip Ring Units". Department
of
>> > Electrical Engineering, Stolkholm. They concluded that with
various
>> > currents and speeds to 5k rpm's that COPPER-GRAPHITE brushes were
the
> best
>> > for total of frictional and electrical losses. Fig 9 at 13A/cm^2
at 3k
>> > rpm's the copper had 170W loss while the silver had 275W loss and
the
>> > standard graphite 360W loss!. I'm convinced, I'm running to
Warfield
>> > right
>> > now to get my copper impregnated brushes.
>> >>
>> >> Have a copper-graphite day,
>> >> Mark
>> >>
>> >>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the link,the speed and range is a bit disapointing for Li-Lon
batteries.
On 8/30/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anyone know of these folks? They're in Canada:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300022677936
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know how these pumps work with an automotive type coolant?
The review only says; "No maintenance when used with de-mineralized water, and
anti-fungal
additives"
Got to be able to work in the winter!
Dave Cover
--- "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a good, in-depth review on the Swiftech MCP655 (1/2" pipes):
>
> http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-01.html
>
> It's probably the one I'm going to buy for my homebrew AC inverter. I
> don't think $70 is too bad for what you get:
>
> http://www.jab-tech.com/product.php?productid=2982
>
> It claims an MTBF of 50,000 hours, or a million miles at 20MPH.
>
> - Arthur
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, that's Hondas.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Wednesday, 30 August 2006 4:02 PM
To: Lawrence Rhodes; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
I heard some vehicles have CCW engines - was that Honda's?
And how difficult is it to reverse them?
I have not taken it apart yet - just ordered it,
but smalle motors always only required swapping the
winding connections to run the other way.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:24 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
It's CCW rotation. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
> I ordered one.
> I'll let you know what arrives.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> >
> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> >
> > And, it's compound wound!
> >
> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:53 PM 8/29/2006, you wrote:
Hey Andre' all
See what you started Andre' hehe 8^ P
What I started. The mud in the pool was all stirred up long before I
jumped in. :)
I'm having a hard time trying to visualize layered materials in a
brush. Brushes wear and so at some point you'll get into another flavor
so to speak, what then?? The other area of difference between that
application and yours is they are talking about 225 RPM's and not 4000 to
5000, pretty big difference.
I think you got the layers oriented the wrong way.
My thinking was just that since it seems like EV motor builders do not want
to put things like interpoles into new motors that this is something that
could be added to a motor like adjustable timing, only easier. Easier in
that the motor is not modified just a brush change. Finding or more likely
making the layered brushes could be interesting.
Lets not forget smooth slip ring vs. slotted comm bars also. I have a
few emails to do as well as other stuff so I didn't read the whole
article so I don't know what voltage they were at either, or for that
matter what current. In my experience copper based brushes are for low
voltage applications almost all at 12 volts and have never seen any above
24 volts.
Anyway when I saw this thread pop up this morning it raised some red
flags and I thought I'd comment on that I believe you would not be happy
with a copper based brush. I don't know if I missed a post but are you
having brush issues?? or just range issues?? If brush take a pic and
send it on over and I'll take a look. If range, well thats a whole new
thread, hehe.
Don't look at me, Mark started this thread. :)
I can not just stand by and let someone do anything to a motor that I
believe would be be ill advised without at least voicing my opinion and I
feel that's what "my" job is here at the EVDL. I may not know EV's real
good (yet) but I do know a bit about formed coil DC motors 8^ )
Now on the other side of the coin your motor "might" benifit with a
grade change. Contact a brush manufacturer and let them know your
voltage and current when you send in a sample. I'd also instruct them to
beef up the lead a tad if possible. Not to much or the springs won't be
able to draw them in and you'll lose spring pressure and then you're
pissed off on that score, hehe. I'm sure there are several "pricey"
grades you can shake a buck or two at, but to what gain??
Maybe these "pricey" grades are layered and everyone has forgotten what
makes them work better. That seems to happen with old tech and the
manufactures don't say anything because the idea can't be protected
anymore, they just keep making the old product without having to do any R&D.
Hope this helps.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Follow up to my last post.
Here is an interview, about mid page he talks about the brushes.
http://www.windmission.dk/workshop/Marcellus%20Jacobs.htm
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James
Thanks for the input but I'm thinking this is just the opposit. From how I
understand it these guys are getting the 2000 amps at take off and then as they
run down the track and RMP's increase the ampers fall and the motor is finally
getting some fan cooling to boot. On WZ the series parallel shift happenes
once the amps come down to half the amps of the peak amps on take off. BTW I'm
the first to say that I'm just the stupid motor guy trying to figuer out this
new to me EV thing 8^ )
As far as motors go there is a big difference between a motor that can do the
job and a motor that is happy about it, or at least not pissed off about it 8^
P. Anyway from what I've seen and caught on tape it's the startup that causes
the sever arcing and such. Just so you know it's the same for me as the motor
guy, as it is for the racers trying to figuer it out, what came first the
chicken or the egg. When you're looking at a plate of scrabbled eggs and cut
up chicken it's kinda hard to tell, LMAO!
Thanks for the input as this is what I was hoping for 8^ ) Hope Rod doesn't
mind as I didn't ask before posting this 8^ ) It's just I really want to help
where I can to see Rod and all who worked on GP to see it's original goals be
met! Just one of my personal challenges!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 07:35 PM 29/08/06 -0700, Jim Husted wrote:
>Hey all
>
> Okay but why are the back 8's happier (they ain't that happy, but
> happier, hehe) than the front nine if in fact they are all seeing the
> same current? Is the front 9 taking longer and working harder to swing
> the larger diameter of mass? Are the gears just slightly off so that the
> 8's are fighting the nine a bit. Again a pair of 8's beat a 9 in my line
> of thought so the 9 gets hurt more. Are the nines unable to handle
> higher current like the 8's do"
G'day Jim, and all
Just some thoughts from the peanut gallery:
The front 9" is going through a gearbox so maybe although he's getting the
same amps as the back 8"s (they're all getting over-amped), just that the
pair of 8"s in the back take so long to get up to that high-RPM/high amps
motor killing range that the race is just about done before they get there,
but the 9" has been there all the way as it gets worked through the gears?
I don't know how the RPMs compare, but if GP has never reached the speed
that the rear motors are geared for, then they may be only just getting
into that killer RPM/amps range at the end of the track. If the rears were
geared down a little to get a harder first 1/8th would they be as bad as
the 9"?
Of course it's easy to throw peanuts, and from this range most of em' would
miss.
$0.02Aus x 0.73 = US$0.0146 you get what its' worth!
Regards
[Technik] James
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wound field DC motors have two basic field connection schemes, series and
shunt. You can also have a combination, compound wound, which has a series
connected field coil set and a shunt connected set. The series coils are wired
in series with the armature and the shunt coils are wired across the armature
or source. A separately excited motor has a field system designed to be
excited (or powered) from a different source than the armature. Therefore, a
SepEx motor may have a 48 volt armature and a 12 volt field, for example.
The main reason for these different field configurations is to taylor the
speed torque characteristics to the appliaction and fashion the motor for speed
control, reversing and regeneration by means of field control.
Most DC motors you find for these EV applications are 4 pole. From the
electromagnetic standpoint in the motor, it does not matter if there are 2
coils or 4 coils. A compound wound motor may have 2 series coils and 2 shunt
coils, or 4 and 4. It is a matter to the designer of the space available
inside the frame and the degree of compounding needed, ie. how much shunt and
how much series field is needed to get the desired characteristic.
You guys considering running a compound 24 volt motor at higher voltage will
have to keep from over exciting the shunt field, that is appling too high of a
voltage to the shunt coils. This can result in core saturation and or
overheating the shunt coils. As for reversing rotation, remember it is the
relative polarity of the armature to the field need be reversed, and you need
to end up with 2 north and 2 south poles.
As for the wire size in the coils, the series coils, which carry armature
current, need to be of large area conductor, few turns, high current. Shunt
coils carry much less current, therefore, smaller wire and more turns. SepEx
coils usually end up similar to shunt coils, but somewhat bigger wire and fewer
turns because they are generally excited by only a portion of the armature
voltage.
Good luck,
jeff
ers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I Googled the motor and got a look at one and it looks like a decent
sized motor. I've never seen one though so have no idea how they're
wound inside. Now for terminology goes I've always known shunted,
compound, and sepex to be three different animals. The shunted motors
I see have two strap or series wound fields with two shunt wound coils
using fine wire. These are used in pump motors where a even speed is
wanted like power steering motors and some main pump types. Compound
wound to me is a motor where all four fields are wound with both a
strap (series) wound coils with the shunt wire wound around that core.
The sepex's I've seen all have wire about twice as thick as that used
as shunt coils with all four coils being the same wire size. Anyway
this is how I term it just so we can be on the same page and to
thoughs like Lee is this correct?
>
I have absolutely *no* idea what's inside! The studs for D1/E1, D2,
A1, and A2 are all the same size, with E2 a much smaller one. D1 to E2
reads the same resistance as D2 to E2, but my Fluke only reads to 0.1
ohms. Any idea how you'd rewind this to get maximum torque with a
field current that maxes out at 50A?
> To ask a question why don't you split that common connection and
add two seperate terminals? would you be able to continue your
previous plan then? Be an easy fix if so, just a thought. My other
question is do you know if it is by my definition a shunted or
compound wound field? I ask because if actually a shunt motor maybe
you could find a damaged motor and steal the shunts from it for the
other two pair of coils and then just scrap the strap wound pair. If
it's compound then thats not an option. Just throwing some thoughts
your way before you abandon your first plan. Makes me want to pop
your motor apart to take a little looksie at what's exactly inside, hehe.
>
*I* certainly won't be popping this puppy open. I'd send you the
motor, but unless someone can tell me how to unmate it from the
transaxle, you'd get them both! I'm waiting to see what the engineer
from ZAPI says about my idea since I gave him more of the motor's
specs. I don't know what voltage the field side runs, but isn't it
usually quite a bit lower (12-15Vdc)? The idea of D1=E1 worries me.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Anyone know of these folks? They're in Canada:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300022677936
They mention metricmind.com in their description. Victor, did they get
the motor from you?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This morning my trusty software (Whew!) shut the pack off at about 324
volts. So it ended up with 45ah. I reset the software to a higher
threshold and restarted the charging at 1.5a instead of 6a and will
let it run until I get home or until the next threshold is hit. Should
end up with about 60 ah into the cells.
These boxes sure came in handy intitializing these 228 cells. I should
be able to start installing them tonight. The spacing between them in
the box may be a bit wider than in the truck. So I don't know if the
interconnects will fit well when everything is installed into the
truck. I suppose I could machine them. But I really want a round hole
for maximum contact area for each buss bar/terminal connection.
I use to use the Thermax dots from McMaster for measuring temperature
of hard parts. But This time I think I'll order the crayon versions.
The crayon mark left on a part changes to a dark color if the temp
threshold is exceeded. Makes it easy to apply on bolt heads etc
compared to the dot.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So I ended up pumping .6ah into each 19 cell box with my nicad/nimh
> chargers. They cells were shipped shorted. It gave them enough power
> that when I connected them in series they could power the truck long
> enough for it to start charging. It takes a while as the charger tapers
> from a -1.7 amps to something above zero. Right now they are at 6 amps.
> I set the Emeter back to Amp hours and it's making about 6ah per hour.
> So from 9pm to 6 am will be 54 ah. I'll see if they are gassing much
> and decide then if going to 60ah is ok. All of this is happening in the
> bed of the truck until the other 24 cells arrive.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
First off I figuered the copper content would not be 100% but even 30% is a
very hard brush and like Rod or Rich stated 30% worked better than the heavier
% but in the end Rod came back to the H-100 grade. That info on it's own is
enough for me, even if I didn't have 25 years of brush usage under my belt 8^ )
As far as layering the brushes length wise, you'd then have different
materials contacting the comm all at the same time. It's not rocket science to
figuer out that one layer will wear out faster than the other!
If the hard layer doesn't wear then the softer materials will arc and develop
a non contact gap which will result in really poor commutation. When reading
the article I couldn't help but feel that here is someone talking about his
unit and wanting it to sound as good as it could! I take a grain of salt with
just about everything untill I see it for myself. So one has to ask, is this
fact or someones over-inflated stats!
Even if it worked for him, one has to ask will it work in other applications?
I don't EVer want to be looked at like some motor God (like Wayland likes to
say) but as someone who is trying to help where I can and to save you guys
heartache if possible 8^ )
By all means those who dare, have some made up and report back to the group.
I'm only about 99% sure of what will happen! hehe! I stand on my earlier post
that if you're having issues with the so called "bimbo" brushes I doubt it's
the Bimbo's fault! In fact they are just showing the signs of an underlieing
problem and trying to get your attention!
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Andre' Blanchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 07:53 PM 8/29/2006, you wrote:
>Hey Andre' all
>
> See what you started Andre' hehe 8^ P
What I started. The mud in the pool was all stirred up long before I
jumped in. :)
>
> I'm having a hard time trying to visualize layered materials in a
> brush. Brushes wear and so at some point you'll get into another flavor
> so to speak, what then?? The other area of difference between that
> application and yours is they are talking about 225 RPM's and not 4000 to
> 5000, pretty big difference.
I think you got the layers oriented the wrong way.
My thinking was just that since it seems like EV motor builders do not want
to put things like interpoles into new motors that this is something that
could be added to a motor like adjustable timing, only easier. Easier in
that the motor is not modified just a brush change. Finding or more likely
making the layered brushes could be interesting.
> Lets not forget smooth slip ring vs. slotted comm bars also. I have a
> few emails to do as well as other stuff so I didn't read the whole
> article so I don't know what voltage they were at either, or for that
> matter what current. In my experience copper based brushes are for low
> voltage applications almost all at 12 volts and have never seen any above
> 24 volts.
>
> Anyway when I saw this thread pop up this morning it raised some red
> flags and I thought I'd comment on that I believe you would not be happy
> with a copper based brush. I don't know if I missed a post but are you
> having brush issues?? or just range issues?? If brush take a pic and
> send it on over and I'll take a look. If range, well thats a whole new
> thread, hehe.
Don't look at me, Mark started this thread. :)
> I can not just stand by and let someone do anything to a motor that I
> believe would be be ill advised without at least voicing my opinion and I
> feel that's what "my" job is here at the EVDL. I may not know EV's real
> good (yet) but I do know a bit about formed coil DC motors 8^ )
>
> Now on the other side of the coin your motor "might" benifit with a
> grade change. Contact a brush manufacturer and let them know your
> voltage and current when you send in a sample. I'd also instruct them to
> beef up the lead a tad if possible. Not to much or the springs won't be
> able to draw them in and you'll lose spring pressure and then you're
> pissed off on that score, hehe. I'm sure there are several "pricey"
> grades you can shake a buck or two at, but to what gain??
Maybe these "pricey" grades are layered and everyone has forgotten what
makes them work better. That seems to happen with old tech and the
manufactures don't say anything because the idea can't be protected
anymore, they just keep making the old product without having to do any R&D.
> Hope this helps.
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> Follow up to my last post.
>
>Here is an interview, about mid page he talks about the brushes.
>http://www.windmission.dk/workshop/Marcellus%20Jacobs.htm
>
>
>
>__________
>Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Anyone know of these folks? They're in Canada:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300022677936
> >
> >
> >
> >
> They mention metricmind.com in their description. Victor, did they get
> the motor from you?
>
And if they used such high-end drive and dearly-priced battery pack,
why use such a low-end car as a Hyundai?!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Miles has a point. We put space between air-cooled Saft nicads because Saft
tells us to. AFAIK, Trojan, USBMC, Hawker, Optima and Exide are mute on
this matter, so most people don't think of it.
One reason for the difference is no doubt that the Safts have higher
capacity in a smaller package, which isn't as able to dissipate heat as
readily.
But remember too that Saft designed their STM nicads for road EVs, expecting
and specifying them to run at 1C continuously, and 5C for 15 second bursts.
The other batteries mentioned above are intended for trolling motors (25 amp
continuous) or golf cars (75 amp continuous, maybe). The lead batteries'
manufacturers don't necessarily provide explicit support for their batteries
in road EV use. When you are asking the batteries to dish out a hundred
amps or more just cruising, more aggressive cooling might be a darn good
idea.
Of course it depends on what you're doing with the car. If you're running a
range competition that day, allowing batteries to reach higher temperatures
will give you more capacity. The downside is that higher temperatures also
reduce life. I can't say for sure that they make the battery more likely to
fail catastrophically as seen at the races, but it will definitely shorten
cycle life.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
CCW motors are needed for EV motorcycles with the sprocket on the left. CW
motors for right side sprocket. I don't know if the Honda is CW or CCW it
is just backwards from every other car. Lawrence.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle
Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:01 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
> I heard some vehicles have CCW engines - was that Honda's?
>
> And how difficult is it to reverse them?
> I have not taken it apart yet - just ordered it,
> but smalle motors always only required swapping the
> winding connections to run the other way.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:24 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> It's CCW rotation. LR........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:58 PM
> Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> > I ordered one.
> > I'll let you know what arrives.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Dave Cover
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:00 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
> >
> >
> > Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
> >
> > --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> > >
> > > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous
duty,
> > > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia
x
> > > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> > >
> > > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced
DC
> > > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> > >
> > > And, it's compound wound!
> > >
> > > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > > --
> > > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > > --
> > > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
