EV Digest 5811
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: New to list and question about Etek motor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Danger den magII water pump
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Wheel motors
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Regen braking (was Re: Wheel motors)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay, weighty issue!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Cheap EV motor
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) 60 foot times (was: Harley Drags)
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Drill powered EV
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Cheap EV motor
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: The Great Prius Pack Experiment is finally over.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe 8 Eteks. 2 will melt. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Dmitri Hurik" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: New to list and question about Etek motor
> Maybe 2 eteks in a tubular dune buggy ??
> No trans
> belt reduction to the VW cv joint ??
>
> Dual Perm motor or marselectric motor might be better ...
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > A single etek is too weak, won't work.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ed Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:52 PM
> > Subject: New to list and question about Etek motor
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I've been researching making an EV for commuting and am glad to
> find
> > > this list. I'm sure I'll be able to find out most if not all of
> what I
> > > need in the way of information here.
> > >
> > > One site I've found is an EV calculation page by Uve
> > > (http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html) One of the
> most
> > > interesting motors to use is the B&S Etek. Looks like the ideal
> motor.
> > > Too bad it's not available any more, though a check on Ebay
> found a
> > > recent auction for a pair of Etek motors.
> > >
> > > My question is, is the Etek really capable of powering an EV.
> Say I
> > > want to convert a Ford Escort or a VW Fastback, both cars that
> I'm
> > > considering. Would the Etek really work or is there something
> I'm
> > > missing? Using the Etek in the calculations makes it look like
> the
> > > perfect motor for long distance driving, good highway speed,
> able to
> > > leap tall buildings in a single bound (my home is at the top of
> a 2
> > > mile/8% grade climb. Is this real or imaginary? If imaginary,
> what
> > > motor will work for my conditions?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Ed Stevens
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This is a good, in-depth review on the Swiftech MCP655 (1/2" pipes):
>
> http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_mcp655-01.html
It is a Laing D5 and the specs say -
• Operating voltage range: 6 to 14 VDC
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark McCurdy wrote:
> what about item 10-1422, same page?
That's also a reasonable motor for a small EV (NEV or CitiCar sized).
It's specs and price are "normal", i.e. what I would expect.
> I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor...
Motors don't have a fixed voltage limit. The nameplate data is just one
of many possible values; it usually reflects what the customer asked
for, or where the motor's efficiency is highest.
Raise the voltage (and frequency, if it's an AC motor), and it simply
runs faster. The ultimate voltage limit is where the RPM gets high
enough to mechanically endanger the motor. Motors the size of these are
easily good for 6000 rpm with nothing more than simple balancing and
"dipping" the rotor to glue the windings in place.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For those who don't recognize, it's a 180Ah SAFT6V NiCd battery. The eBay
listing is for just one, but he mentions he has "many":
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320022561131
Oooh. Nice. However that frame looks oddly familiar; I wonder if these
are from that bus that was on Ebay awhile back.
If so they have 60k+ miles on them. Might be good, might be bad. But six
of them would fit in an Elec-trak...
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To use it you would have to develop a disk brake to go on the shaft somewhere.
Maybe set up something like the front fork of a motorcycle. You'd think they
would have some sort of provision!
-Ralph
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:26:42 -0700 (PDT)
Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey all
>
> The motors might be awesome but...
>
> Statements like this turn me off:
> >Regenerative braking recovers almost all energy (I didn't know that was
> possible!)
> >Emissions are zero for four hours (at what speed and distance?)
>
> IMO super hype on the sales approach even if they are in fact good motors.
> On another note, even being a motor guy, having no mechanical brakes kind
> of freaks me out 8^ o
> Just writing that makes me want to push my foot down harder like I can't
> stop, hehe
> Just my two grains of salt
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone looked at the wheel motors from PML Flightlink?
>
> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/EW20_60.html
>
> They have a demo cooper mini hybrid with 4 2280Watt motors.
>
> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/news.html
>
> They also sell higher power motors but the GEM controller seems quite
> small. (72V)
>
>
> -Robert
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
> countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello. Does anyone on the list rebuild Curtis controllers? I have a 1231C
that I want to have rebuilt. I asked Curtis about it and they want almost as
much as a new controller.
Thanks,
Patrick
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Mark McCurdy wrote:
>> what about item 10-1422, same page?
>
> That's also a reasonable motor for a small EV (NEV or CitiCar sized).
> It's specs and price are "normal", i.e. what I would expect.
>
>> I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor...
>
> Motors don't have a fixed voltage limit. The nameplate data is just one
> of many possible values; it usually reflects what the customer asked
> for, or where the motor's efficiency is highest.
>
> Raise the voltage (and frequency, if it's an AC motor), and it simply
> runs faster. The ultimate voltage limit is where the RPM gets high
> enough to mechanically endanger the motor. Motors the size of these are
> easily good for 6000 rpm with nothing more than simple balancing and
> "dipping" the rotor to glue the windings in place.
Hold on a moment Lee, raising the voltage can also cause problems arcing,
sometimes even before the RPM limit is reached. Especially if you are
also pushing big amps.
You can also (sometimes) reduce arcing by advancing the brushes, but I
think there is a limit to how far you can go even when advancing the
brushes.
As I recall there is a kind of rule of thumb about the number of comutator
segments and the maximum "safe" voltage.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 30 Aug 2006 at 11:56, Christopher Zach wrote:
> But six of
> them would fit in an Elec-trak...
Just so you know, the stock ET charger would probably not be very healthy
for them. Saft calls for a rather specific charge profile.
Also, in an ET, you WANT lots of weight. The improved specific energy these
battery supply would be a disadvantage. Rod Hower uses them, IIRC, so he
may have some comments on this.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
You could maybe use them without a brake as the back wheel on a tadpole
style three wheeler something like the Freedom EV.
The back brake on tadpoles isn't all that critical for emergency stoping
anyway since almost all of the weight shifts to the front wheels anyway.
It might actually be easier to intergrate regen braking this way anyway.
Do variable regen braking up to a certain point on the brake pedal/lever
and then start with the conventional brakes.
This should give you smooth braking from zero to oh-damn!
> To use it you would have to develop a disk brake to go on the shaft
> somewhere. Maybe set up something like the front fork of a motorcycle.
> You'd think they would have some sort of provision!
>
> -Ralph
>
>
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:26:42 -0700 (PDT)
> Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Hey all
>>
>> The motors might be awesome but...
>>
>> Statements like this turn me off:
>> >Regenerative braking recovers almost all energy (I didn't know that
>> was possible!)
>> >Emissions are zero for four hours (at what speed and distance?)
>>
>> IMO super hype on the sales approach even if they are in fact good
>> motors.
>> On another note, even being a motor guy, having no mechanical brakes
>> kind of freaks me out 8^ o
>> Just writing that makes me want to push my foot down harder like I
>> can't stop, hehe
>> Just my two grains of salt
>> Cya
>> Jim Husted
>> Hi-Torque Electric
>>
>>
>> Robert Baertsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Has anyone looked at the wheel motors from PML Flightlink?
>>
>> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/EW20_60.html
>>
>> They have a demo cooper mini hybrid with 4 2280Watt motors.
>>
>> http://www.pmlflightlink.com/news.html
>>
>> They also sell higher power motors but the GEM controller seems quite
>> small. (72V)
>>
>>
>> -Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
>> countries) for 2¢/min or less.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:34 AM 8/30/2006, you wrote:
> > Anyone know of these folks? They're in Canada:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300022677936
> >
> They mention metricmind.com in their description. Victor, did they get
> the motor from you?
>
And if they used such high-end drive and dearly-priced battery pack,
why use such a low-end car as a Hyundai?!
Maybe that's all they could afford after they bought the parts and batteries.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay
> > > Anyone know of these folks? They're in Canada:
> > >
> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300022677936
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > They mention metricmind.com in their description. Victor, did they get
> > the motor from you?
> >
>
> And if they used such high-end drive and dearly-priced battery pack,
> why use such a low-end car as a Hyundai?!
> Hi ALL;
and why is he giving it away!??????? This one looks like a good
deal?!Go for it guyz!
Hi- An'- Dri?.... Why not? It PROBABLY didn't weigh 3000lbs as a gas
before they started? Hyundais are common, parts are probably still
available.Guy was looking for a light production car? I would say decent
choice. What OTHER car is light nowadaze? Gees! EVen a Civic, as a gas,
weighs as much as my Rabbit did ELECTRIC, after stuffing 1200 lbs of
batteries aboard. What are they doing, nowadaze? Pouring the floors with
concrete? Like the old Pullman cars, concrete floors to give them weight for
a good ride and souund deadening.. For you youngsters out there, a Pullman
car was a railway passenger car,"Sleep the miles awasy" they used to
say.Uppers and lowers, beds, that is. the only way to travel before Boeing,
Chevy, Ford, Greyhound,Segway and Airbus.
My upper berth's worth.
Bob
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/433 - Release Date: 8/30/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If someone sells on ebay and "doesn't know" if good or bad, assume bad!
So these must be the "flooded nicads" I hear talked about?
What do they cost new?
Christopher Zach wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For those who don't recognize, it's a 180Ah SAFT6V NiCd battery. The eBay
listing is for just one, but he mentions he has "many":
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320022561131
Oooh. Nice. However that frame looks oddly familiar; I wonder if these
are from that bus that was on Ebay awhile back.
If so they have 60k+ miles on them. Might be good, might be bad. But six
of them would fit in an Elec-trak...
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
On 30 Aug 2006 at 11:56, Christopher Zach wrote:
But six of
them would fit in an Elec-trak...
Just so you know, the stock ET charger would probably not be very healthy
for them. Saft calls for a rather specific charge profile.
True, these are not BB600's, although the Elec-trak charger works well
with them.
Also, in an ET, you WANT lots of weight. The improved specific energy these
battery supply would be a disadvantage. Rod Hower uses them, IIRC, so he
may have some comments on this.
Also true, oddly enough. With the BB600's, my Elec-trak weighs less. In
fact I left a pair of T105's up front as ballast.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
If someone sells on ebay and "doesn't know" if good or bad, assume bad!
So these must be the "flooded nicads" I hear talked about?
What do they cost new?
These are not "those" flooded NiCDs. These are really *nice* flooded NiCds.
The ones I go on about are the SAFT/Marathon BB600 cells. They provide
30ah capacity, and need to be watered by hand. Which is probably going
to be a real pain in the rear. On the other hand, they seem to be pretty
durable and they do put out a lot of power.
Data point. The truck was about 20ah down today after the inspection
(which it failed due to my need to tighten the parking brake cables.
*sigh*). However even flooring it to 200a draw it was putting out 270
volts on a 252 cell pack. Or just a hair under 1.0 volts per cell. Which
is not too bad.
Big problem with the BB600s is that 30-40ah capacity. These SAFTs have
180ah capacity, and have plumbing for auto-watering.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Patrick,
I'm curious. Did Curtis want you to use this place?
http://www.fsip.biz/
-Dave
On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Patrick Maston wrote:
Hello. Does anyone on the list rebuild Curtis controllers? I have a
1231C that I want to have rebuilt. I asked Curtis about it and they
want almost as much as a new controller.
Thanks,
Patrick
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would it be problematic to run this motor at 120 or 144V? From reading the list, my
first reaction would be "no". Back-o-the-napkin calcs give the motor a
resistance of .55 Ohms. At 144V, that's 260A, 37583W, 50HP. Is this correct?
Mark McCurdy wrote:
what about item 10-1422, same page?
I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor...
would be fantastic if you could
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Husted"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Hey all
Busy email night for me tonight, had to go eat a little dinner 8^ )
I saw this post earlier and did want to say I went and checked it
out. Looks like a good motor, just might have to buy myself one,
hehe. Get an album on how I mod it to run both ways and such if in
fact it's a pump not a drive 8^ ) I was busy at work today so I need
to go back and take another look.
The price is awesome but it's the freight that'll punch my budget a
bit passed what I'd care for just after an event. Lee is correct in
that this ain't no 2 HP motor 8^ ) This is a good sized motor capable
of good loads and GE makes a really good motor on larger motors. I
don't care for their 6" sizes compared to ADC or Prestolite (don't get
me started) but their big motors are made really well. Anyone in the
Oregon area want one too, we can share the freight on a pair, hehe.
Jim's two thumbs up !!
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jim would you like to chime in here? Thanks a bunch. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cover"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
--- Lee Hart wrote:
> I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
>
> DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous
duty,
> open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9"
dia x
> 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
>
> Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an
Advanced DC
> 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
>
> And, it's compound wound!
>
> Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> good candidate for a cheap EV!
> -- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful,
committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Death to All Spammers wrote:
> The 48v series motor is rated 113A for 1hr, while the 24v compound
> motor is rated 72A continuous. Wouldn't the compound motor handle
> a lot more than 113A for 1hr, and if it's 149lbs, shouldn't it be
> stout enough for 3krpm from a 72V setup (or even more)?
As I said, the nameplate ratings are a SUGGESTION. The full data sheet
for a motor will show its performance over a wide range of voltages,
currents, speeds, temperatures, etc.
For this motor, the customer may have requested a 24v 2hp 1000rpm >85%
efficient motor that would run for 20 years continuously in a 125 deg.C
environment. GE looked on the shelf, checked the specs, and said, "This
motor will do it!" So that's what they put on the nameplate.
But the same motor might also be rated:
24v 72a 2hp 1000rpm continuous duty for 20 years
36v 95a 4hp 1500rpm continuous duty for 10 years
48v 110a 6hp 2000rpm 8 hours/day
72v 125a 10hp 3000rpm 2 hours
96v 135a 14hp 4000rpm 1 hour
They will put any of these nameplates on it, too, if that's what the
customer orders.
Why does the current go up as the voltage goes up? Because this motor is
cooled by an internal fan. Doubling the voltage doubles the speed, which
(more than) doubles the airflow. Thus the cooling is greatly improved as
speed increases, allowing higher currents for the same temperature rise.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> I heard some vehicles have CCW engines - was that Honda's?
> And how difficult is it to reverse them?
I wrote that the Surplus Center #10-2120 motor was CW rotation (not
CCW), which is what the catalog says.
If you have to reverse it, that's not difficult. Mainly changing the
brush advance. It's possible that the brushes are angled for the
direction of rotation, but unlikely.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Hold on a moment Lee. Raising the voltage can also cause problems
> arcing, sometimes even before the RPM limit is reached. Especially
> if you are also pushing big amps.
That's correct. However, I think 24v 72a is excessively conservative for
a motor of this size. Surplus dealers are not known for their acumen in
getting the specs right.
> As I recall there is a kind of rule of thumb about the number of
> comutator segments and the maximum "safe" voltage.
Yes; it's about 30 volts between bars. It's possible that this 24v motor
has an unusually small commutator with very few bars -- but I'll bet
it's got the same nice big commutator that all the large GE motors had.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I'll confess.
I chickened out and cancelled the order.
Figured that I do not need another project,
and being forced to use a Honda (although I like
many of the body styles) is not a good start anyway.
It still looks like a nice 9" motor and there are
(again) 12 in stock, but time is such a precious resource.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Ankers
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
Yes, that's Hondas.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Wednesday, 30 August 2006 4:02 PM
To: Lawrence Rhodes; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
I heard some vehicles have CCW engines - was that Honda's?
And how difficult is it to reverse them?
I have not taken it apart yet - just ordered it,
but smalle motors always only required swapping the
winding connections to run the other way.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:24 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
It's CCW rotation. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:58 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
> I ordered one.
> I'll let you know what arrives.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> >
> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> >
> > And, it's compound wound!
> >
> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, that is so temping. We have a 16" plain jane aluminum fishing
boat. I know how it ran on a 9.9HP Johnson. An 8HP equivalent would be
just fine for our purposes (getting our junk to the cottage - we have
no road access), and we tend to use it only for a total of 30 minutes
per weekend (more if fishing, but that would be very low speed).
Sounds perfect!
-Mike
On 8/29/06, Stefan T. Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike Ellis wrote:
> What was the cost on your system, Stefan?
Well - since the hull is an important part of the equation, I'll include it:
~$380 Hull Materials (Wood, Epoxy, Silicon-Bronze Fasteners)
~$140 Paint, trim, fittings, seats + wiring
$100 Motorguide Thruster T34B (on sale)
$70 Exide "Stowaway" 110Ah Group 27 deep cycle battery from Napa
$30 Soneil 1206S Charger
So, combined with 5 weekends of labor, about $720 so far. I'm sure that
there is another $100 or so I've forgotten about, so lets just pad that
to around $800.
ROFL - that's less then the cost of a smaller ICE outboard - *just* the
outboard, no boat.
But I'd say that at $20/hour, I have well over $1000 of labor in the
bugger. So I payed for the difference in sweat ;-)
> And does anyone know what would be needed to charge this battery from
> a 12VDC solar power system?
>
Well, a 15Watt (waterproof) panel and a 1 amp charge controller should
do nicely for typical weekend use. Something like this, perhaps?
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=VDC-SCC015
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, incorrect. You can not treat motor as a resistor unless it is at stall
because it has back EMF, which is speed dependant.
jeff
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Would it be problematic to run this motor at 120 or 144V? From reading the
list, my first reaction would be "no". Back-o-the-napkin calcs give the motor a
resistance of .55 Ohms. At 144V, that's 260A, 37583W, 50HP. Is this correct?
Mark McCurdy wrote:
> what about item 10-1422, same page?
> I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor...
> would be fantastic if you could
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Husted"
>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> Hey all
>
> Busy email night for me tonight, had to go eat a little dinner 8^ )
> I saw this post earlier and did want to say I went and checked it
> out. Looks like a good motor, just might have to buy myself one,
> hehe. Get an album on how I mod it to run both ways and such if in
> fact it's a pump not a drive 8^ ) I was busy at work today so I need
> to go back and take another look.
> The price is awesome but it's the freight that'll punch my budget a
> bit passed what I'd care for just after an event. Lee is correct in
> that this ain't no 2 HP motor 8^ ) This is a good sized motor capable
> of good loads and GE makes a really good motor on larger motors. I
> don't care for their 6" sizes compared to ADC or Prestolite (don't get
> me started) but their big motors are made really well. Anyone in the
> Oregon area want one too, we can share the freight on a pair, hehe.
> Jim's two thumbs up !!
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
> Lawrence Rhodes
wrote:
> Jim would you like to chime in here? Thanks a bunch. Lawrence
> Rhodes......
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cover"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
>> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>>
>> --- Lee Hart wrote:
>>
>> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
>> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
>> >
>> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
>> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous
>> duty,
>> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9"
>> dia x
>> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
>> >
>> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an
>> Advanced DC
>> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
>> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
>> >
>> > And, it's compound wound!
>> >
>> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
>> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
>> > -- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful,
>> committed
>> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
>> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
>> > --
>> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
> rates.
>
>
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are spinning the tire on the strip, your CG is to low and/or
too far forward.
The coefficient of friction on the track can be as high as 3.0
(compared to the street which is about 1.2).
Draw a line on the ground, starting at the contact point of the rear
tire, that is three feet (or yards) long. Go up from the end of that
line one foot (or one yard.) This will form a triangle. The part of
the triangle that goes from the tip of the one-foot line to the
contact point is your optimal CG angle for the track. Your CG (with
you included) must lie on this line.
If your CG is above this line, the bike will lift the front tire and
perhaps "blow over" off the line. If your CG is below this line, the
rear tire will spin. If you CG is right on this line, there will be
zero weight on the front tire and the bike will launch as quickly as
the rear tire will allow it to.
You can adjust the bike CG by moving the rear tire or the position
of the battery pack. You can move the CG to the correct CG line for
your bike by moving weight up and/or back. Your present CG is too low
and/or too far forward.
Moving weight back makes the bike less sensitive to varying track
conditions but makes it blow over more quickly. Moving weight forward
makes the bike more sensitive to track conditions, but makes it blow
over much more slowly. It also tends to make the bike a touch more
stable at the high end.
You can adjust the CG of the bike quite a bit by adjusting your
riding position at the launch. That is why there are two steps on the
seat of a drag bike body.
Once you get the tire to bite, then you can start to play with the
gearing.
Walk the bike around the water box so you don't get the front tire
wet. Back into the water box. Do do the best burn-out, grab the front
brake and stand up on the track with the bike between your knees.
Wack the throttle and, once the tire is spinning, rock the bike
gently to evenly roast the tire. Slowly release the front brake,
allow the bike to move forward until the tire hits dry pavement. As
soon as the tire bites, sit down and release the throttle.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is starting to sound a bit like Power Tool Drag Racing:
http://powertooldragraces.com/
I wonder if they have a "cordless" category? When I was there a couple
years ago, it was all 110 or 220V.
Steve
On Tue, August 29, 2006 11:51 pm, Mike Willmon wrote:
> Oops, I meant the Milwaukee V28 LiIons.
> Imagine two cordless drills strapped to a regular bike kinda like this Air
> powered version, hehe. http://www.instructables.com/id/E5OMNXCU2REP2860RS/
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:42 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Drill powered EV
>>
>>
>>
>> Interesting!! How would it perform I wonder with the Milwaukee 24V
>> LiIons? It would be a real low battery to weight ratio :-)
>>
>>
>> Is it the "Drill Powered Mini Bike"?
>> http://www.dpxsystems.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=184
>>
>>
>> Its on their main page about halfway down.
>>
>>
>> Drill Powered Mini Bike Patented Drill Powered Mini Bike with 18 V
>> Drill. Can be adapted to many battery drills. High Quality
>> Heli Arched Aluminum Frame, Dual Disk Brakes. Great Product to promote
>> Drill sales.
>> Notes & Specs: Weight 28 LBS. Speed 15MPH. Distance on battery charge
>> depends on battery type and voltage from 2 miles to 6 miles or more.
>> Front and rear suspension will carry 320 Lb Rider.
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Behalf Of Rush
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:59 PM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Drill powered EV
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> I just got back from my weekly 'sit at Borders and read all the mags'
>>> and in Workbench mag found a company that makes a EV that you can
>>> power with a portable drill. The website is www.dpxsystems.com but
>>> there is no info at the website, so I may have copied the url wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> The scooter is small framed and there is a holder for an 18v drill
>>> (dewalt shown, IIRC). There supposedly holders for
>>> other drills and they claim 25 mph... no price.
>>>
>>> Rush
>>> Tucson AZ
>>> www.ironandwood.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shipping was almost $80 with UPS
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of torich1
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
What were the shipping charges on the motor?
Rich in Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: RE: Cheap EV motor
> I ordered one.
> I'll let you know what arrives.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>
>
> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>
> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> > (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
> >
> > DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> > traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> > open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> > 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
> >
> > Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> > 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> > 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
> >
> > And, it's compound wound!
> >
> > Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> > good candidate for a cheap EV!
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is my response to an email from David.
> > I have been considering using Prius battery packs for my
> conversion,
> > or ganging together a bunch of RC cells. I'd love to learn about
> what
> > you did, do you have a web page or writeup you can give me? I'm
> sure
> > it would be of interest to the EVDL, too. I have questions like:
> >
> > How did you parallel them? Long strings paralleled, or individual
> > cells paralleled?
Each pack of 38 modules was paralleled to 5 other groups of 38
modules through the wonderfully built in relays in the Prius packs. I
build a box with a master switch and one switch for each pack's
relays. That way any combo of packs could be switched in or out. Same
for the fans. One master and one switch for each fan.
> >
> > Could you just leave things in parallel all the time?
No. Every week or so I would bulk charge them to maybe 90% then turn
off 4 of the packs and then charge them one at a time. They stayed
almost perfectly the same DOD but I did it as a preventative measure.
The very first time I did it there was a difference in the DOD's of
each pack, but after that they were the same.
> >
> > Did you test that current was shared equally?
That was on my to do list. Each Prius pack has a nice current sensor
built in. I have the hardware to build individual pack current
monitors but just never did. There was so much to do to make these
packs work and not kill themselves. This was just one more item I
could not get to.
> >
> > What was the max current, and for how long, that you pulled?
The 5 packs pulled together up to 250 amps with ease. Each individual
pack was tested to pull 100-150 amps by itself for maybe 10 seconds
at a time several times in a span of 10 minutes. I could have gone for
much longer but this high amp test was during an endurance run so I
didn't want to shorten the range too much.
> >
> > What was the hottest you got the batteries?
Under normal circumstances, they would hit maybe 105f with the fans
running, but only during charging. Driving never even warmed them up.
>
>
> >
> > Did you measure internal resistance (voltage sag as a function of
> > current)?
We measured the individual modules and found 7.0 milliohm. This was
with a profession tester. So with 5 in parallel the pack was very
stiff!
> >
> > How much did the Prius packs cost? I assume you got them from
> wrecked
> > Prii. Where did you get them?
>
I keep this part under my hat. I paid $600 for a couple of them. The
rest I scored a deal at a couple yards. Shipping is pricey at 117lbs
each even without crating/boxing.
> >
> > Did you kill any batteries? I assume it was not a great success
> since
> > you are not keeping the batteries and switching to nicads?
One night I forgot to turn on the fans and they got so hot that they
split open and spewed gaseuous and liquid KOH all over. My error
totally. I had not set the fans up for automatic power up, even
though they did have a fan speed circuit on each one that changed the
rpm with temp. Once again. So much work to do to make them operate
that I just didn't get to this one item. The other circuit that I
designed and did not build was a thermal sense board to open the
relays if the modules got too hot. There was a space on the fan boards
specifically for this. Just didn't have the time.
In the end, they just were too high of a maintenance item to make
them work on a heavy EV. That's why I'm trying flooded nicads as they
are simpler and require simpler maintenance. Eventually these should
get a monitoring system.
> >
> > Thanks for any information!
>
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I just 8 of the 11 Prius Packs that will end up at a university in
> SoCal, and 3 went to a friends place. It was a terrific experience.
> Ended up making several thermal biased variable speed fan circuits for
> keeping the packs cool using as little power as possible to do so. So
> it turns out that paralleling NIMH is quite possible.
>
> Those Toyota boys did quite an engineering job on those packs. Thermal,
> electrical and mechanical engineering was done very well. I have a much
> deeper appreciation for the Prius Teams now.
>
> Shortly the Nicads should be arriving. For right now the truck is a
> light weight 3000 lb glider. 2000lbs lighter than when I purchased it
> :)
>
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
