EV Digest 5812
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay
by "Aaron NMLUG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Drill powered EV
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: [seva] NEDRA @ RPM Show load-in photos
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Crushing EVs like in WKTEC: (Nissan Hyperminis gone)
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: STM-180 in SoCal
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Victor/Metric Mind
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV grin is back!
by Seppo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) contactor
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ellis wrote:
Wow, that is so temping. We have a 16" plain jane aluminum fishing
boat. I know how it ran on a 9.9HP Johnson. An 8HP equivalent would be
just fine for our purposes (getting our junk to the cottage - we have
no road access), and we tend to use it only for a total of 30 minutes
per weekend (more if fishing, but that would be very low speed).
Sounds perfect!
-Mike
Well, for that hull you're not going to want to run such a small setup
as me. If you want more then tepid speed, you'll need at least 50-60lbs
of thrust... I think an 80 would give you a decent push. Two bats in
parallel would definitely make a bit more sense. Or just run a 24V
system ;-)
A typical 4-5HP 4cycle outboard gives you 140-180lbs of thrust. And this
is with a prop that is geared "higher" to give you a better top speed in
exchange for less low-end grunt. I'm running a 1/2HP equivalent setup
with a prop that tops out at less then 10knots... which is why I said
the particular hull is part of the equation. The difference between
individual water-based "gliders" and their two and four wheeled cousins
appears much greater. One boat will take 30A to go 5knots, another one
(of the same general size even) might take three to four times that.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Thanks for the link,the speed and range is a bit disapointing for Li-Lon
> batteries.
?!??
they claim a top (regulated speed of 80 90 mph or something?
I don't believe that.
Regulating to 68 mph sounds great to me.
I know of no american cities where the in-towm highway
limit is more than 65.... and lets face it...
electrics are best as city cars.
They are the FIRST people I've seen who did what I would
do for my dream conversion. Just get enough LiIon batteries
in there to meet the POWER demands. Let the range fall where it may.
Anything over 40 miles is very servicable to me.
60-70 mile range on what must be a 200lb (ish) pack sounds GREAT!
No suspension mods!?!??
--
Aaron Birenboim | I have an inferiority complex
Albuquerque, NM | ... but its not a very
aaron_at_birenboim.com | good one.
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just as Chris said. The BB600 is a Cell not a battery. It litterally
is 1.2v nominal, 1.5ish fully charged.
Chris: 1v per cell would make a 252v output. So 270v on 252 cells is
better than 1v per cell. Which is terrific!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jack Murray wrote:
> > If someone sells on ebay and "doesn't know" if good or bad, assume
bad!
> >
> > So these must be the "flooded nicads" I hear talked about?
> > What do they cost new?
>
> These are not "those" flooded NiCDs. These are really *nice* flooded
NiCds.
>
> The ones I go on about are the SAFT/Marathon BB600 cells. They provide
> 30ah capacity, and need to be watered by hand. Which is probably going
> to be a real pain in the rear. On the other hand, they seem to be
pretty
> durable and they do put out a lot of power.
>
> Data point. The truck was about 20ah down today after the inspection
> (which it failed due to my need to tighten the parking brake cables.
> *sigh*). However even flooring it to 200a draw it was putting out 270
> volts on a 252 cell pack. Or just a hair under 1.0 volts per cell.
Which
> is not too bad.
>
> Big problem with the BB600s is that 30-40ah capacity. These SAFTs have
> 180ah capacity, and have plumbing for auto-watering.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/30/06, Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jack Murray wrote:
> If someone sells on ebay and "doesn't know" if good or bad, assume bad!
>
> So these must be the "flooded nicads" I hear talked about?
> What do they cost new?
These are not "those" flooded NiCDs. These are really *nice* flooded NiCds.
Yes, I think these would be wasted on a garden tractor, if they're any
good. They'd make a really good long range pickup or similar though.
If you go to see them, inspect the monoblocks by shining a strong
light through the top, from one side to the other. Above the plates
you should see a bit of electrolyte, and it should not be brown or
black in colour. If it is, they're cooked. Also check for signs of
an appropriate charger and watering regime on whatever they're coming
out of. The cases they are in suggest they've been used in an EV
already, a bus perhaps?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of rubuilt Curtis, anybody check this site out?
http://www.logisystemscontrollers.com/index.html
From what I hear in the Voltage Forum, they have really good deals on
Re-engineered Curtis controllers. I think i've seen a 120volt 1000amp
controller for around $600.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
Hi Patrick,
I'm curious. Did Curtis want you to use this place?
http://www.fsip.biz/
-Dave
On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Patrick Maston wrote:
Hello. Does anyone on the list rebuild Curtis controllers? I have a
1231C that I want to have rebuilt. I asked Curtis about it and they want
almost as much as a new controller.
Thanks,
Patrick
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
Just as Chris said. The BB600 is a Cell not a battery. It litterally
is 1.2v nominal, 1.5ish fully charged.
Chris: 1v per cell would make a 252v output. So 270v on 252 cells is
better than 1v per cell. Which is terrific!
They typically sit at 1.2 ish at rest (300v), down to 1.1 ish under load
(275), 1.5ish (375v) at full charge. 1.0 with no load is supposed to be
"empty", and the Dolphin will keep them above 1.0 vpc average using the
low voltage cut-out.
It will be interesting to see if your numbers match mine. The truck is
still more peppy and perky than the one I drove with brand new 42ah
hawkers and a 325 volt base voltage.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've never seen any battery powered stuff at the PTDR either. I think
it might be a safety issue as an extension cord eventually gets
unplugged or the power is cutoff. Not sure which has more drag, an
extension cord or a battery pack.
Although safety never really occured to many of us at the Power Tool
Drag Races. No winner ever took the main prize home.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is starting to sound a bit like Power Tool Drag Racing:
>
> http://powertooldragraces.com/
>
> I wonder if they have a "cordless" category? When I was there a couple
> years ago, it was all 110 or 220V.
>
> Steve
>
> On Tue, August 29, 2006 11:51 pm, Mike Willmon wrote:
> > Oops, I meant the Milwaukee V28 LiIons.
> > Imagine two cordless drills strapped to a regular bike kinda like
this Air
> > powered version, hehe.
http://www.instructables.com/id/E5OMNXCU2REP2860RS/
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Behalf Of Mike Willmon
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:42 PM
> >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: RE: Drill powered EV
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Interesting!! How would it perform I wonder with the Milwaukee 24V
> >> LiIons? It would be a real low battery to weight ratio :-)
> >>
> >>
> >> Is it the "Drill Powered Mini Bike"?
> >> http://www.dpxsystems.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=184
> >>
> >>
> >> Its on their main page about halfway down.
> >>
> >>
> >> Drill Powered Mini Bike Patented Drill Powered Mini Bike with 18 V
> >> Drill. Can be adapted to many battery drills. High Quality
> >> Heli Arched Aluminum Frame, Dual Disk Brakes. Great Product to
promote
> >> Drill sales.
> >> Notes & Specs: Weight 28 LBS. Speed 15MPH. Distance on battery charge
> >> depends on battery type and voltage from 2 miles to 6 miles or more.
> >> Front and rear suspension will carry 320 Lb Rider.
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>> Behalf Of Rush
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:59 PM
> >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>> Subject: Drill powered EV
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I just got back from my weekly 'sit at Borders and read all the
mags'
> >>> and in Workbench mag found a company that makes a EV that you can
> >>> power with a portable drill. The website is www.dpxsystems.com but
> >>> there is no info at the website, so I may have copied the url wrong.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The scooter is small framed and there is a holder for an 18v drill
> >>> (dewalt shown, IIRC). There supposedly holders for
> >>> other drills and they claim 25 mph... no price.
> >>>
> >>> Rush
> >>> Tucson AZ
> >>> www.ironandwood.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod, I hope you are right, and know that you along with others have put a
lot of heart and soul into Nedra over the years.
I've got to tell you I am just not seeing it myself. I was at PIR on Friday
night and saw exactly 5 EVs go down the track, two of which were extremely
slow, including one that induced side splitting belly laughs from many of
the gasser fans on hand. I mean this was one of the premier and most hyped
Nedra events of the year. It felt like just another night at PIR with the
Wayland team to me, but then again maybe I'm spoiled.
One problem with having the electrics at gasser events is that no one in the
crowd understands that there are voltage classes. So while almost everyone
that has never seen White Zombie launch hard off the line is amazed, when
something running in one of the lower voltage classes steps up to the line,
people can't figure out why it is on the drag strip in the first place.
Some of these lower voltage machines don't even reach freeway merging speed.
So between lack of participation and the underwhelming performance of many
EVs being presented I don't see anything changing anytime soon. We need
many more Z2K powered machines running down the track with high voltage
packs to really make some ...err silence :-)
I do hope that the Road and Track driver does a fitting writeup. Even that
seems a bit iffy, especially since I was led to believe that he did not have
much experience on the drag strip to compare against. I'm not sure where I
got that idea, so maybe I am wrong, but it would be nice if he could start
his story with something like, I've tested tricked out Vipers, souped up
Vettes, and bone stock Porshes, but I've never felt pure acceleration from a
dead stop like I did on Friday night at PIR...
With writers you never know until the story is printed.
I'm not trying to discount any of the EV promoting efforts you and other
members of Nedra have accomplished. I just don't see anything but the same
ole same ole in the near to midterm future. I think the fact that a new
batch of factory engineered and built EVs are being prematurely sent to the
crusher is actually more telling of what lies ahead for anyone but the EV
hobbiest.
Here's hoping I'm wrong. In the meantime I will continue to cruise around
Vancouver WA on my Electric Motorcyle with parts purchased through
EVParts.com :-)
Damon Henry
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
CC: "SEVA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [seva] NEDRA @ RPM Show load-in photos
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:31:44 -0700
Thanks so much Roy for the photo updates. I do not believe that most on
this list realize the significance of NEDRA being recognized as one of
three major racing organizations to be represented at the RPM Trade Show,
http://www.aera.org/rpm/attend/index.html This is also a great day for all
EVs. This in conjunction with the upcoming article in Car and Driver will
mean that NEDRA and EVs have entered the arena of the mainstream press. We
have finally made it after nine long years of battling misconceptions. I
think the world is finally ready for us. Hang on to your hats for next
years racing season.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA Marketing Director
Hi Folks
We thought some may like these :^D
Set-up day at the show. Tomorrow the crowds come.
http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM01.jpg
http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM02.jpg
http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM03.jpg
http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM04.jpg
http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM05.jpg
http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM06.jpg
http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM07.jpg
More to come.
Roy
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
-----------------------------------------------------------
Visit the SEVA website at http://www.seattleeva.org
If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing, send mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of: unsubscribe seva
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1000 lbs lighter we are both in happy EV land. I agree, with less
weight my truck is much quicker as well. I don't if it matters, but on
the outside of the box is a sticker that says the initial capacity is
44ah at one load and 35ah at another. My cells are also using standoffs
and have a diffent plastic body. Pics coming.
When I get the pack in and charged I'll make a distance run with the
data logging running and we can see about comparing numbers. How can
they be different, they are the same truck ;)
Most of our differences I suspect will be with how the trucks are
programmed (5okw/80kw) and how we assemble the cells. Then again there
is the lead foot factor too.
Mike
--- Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > Just as Chris said. The BB600 is a Cell not a battery. It
> litterally
> > is 1.2v nominal, 1.5ish fully charged.
> >
> > Chris: 1v per cell would make a 252v output. So 270v on 252 cells
> is
> > better than 1v per cell. Which is terrific!
>
> They typically sit at 1.2 ish at rest (300v), down to 1.1 ish under
> load
> (275), 1.5ish (375v) at full charge. 1.0 with no load is supposed to
> be
> "empty", and the Dolphin will keep them above 1.0 vpc average using
> the
> low voltage cut-out.
>
> It will be interesting to see if your numbers match mine. The truck
> is
> still more peppy and perky than the one I drove with brand new 42ah
> hawkers and a 325 volt base voltage.
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
Yes, I think these would be wasted on a garden tractor, if they're any
good. They'd make a really good long range pickup or similar though.
Depends. The capacity of the BB600's is a bit less than new T105's in
the summer, but when it's 10 degrees outside and two feet of snow, those
BB600's will power the tractor and the 15hp snowblower attachment
*REALLY WELL*.
A set of 6 STM180's would pretty much be incredible. You would have
180ah of power as opposed to my systems 120ah (2 banks of BBs in the
rear battery box, one bank on the weight box).
I was chewing through snow drifts at 5 degrees outside just for the heck
of it after blowing my driveway and my neighbor's. I could never do that
with straight T105 batteries.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also, wouldn't 260A be the _peak_ current at 144V? If that's the case,
having a (for example Z1K) might be overkill for this motor, as you
couldn't push that many amps through @ 144. Otmar mentioned that the ADC
9" is about 0.095 to 0.108 Ohms, giving about 1300A @144V, stalled.
Jeff Major wrote:
No, incorrect. You can not treat motor as a resistor unless it is at stall
because it has back EMF, which is speed dependant.
jeff
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Would it be problematic to run this motor at 120 or 144V? From reading the list, my
first reaction would be "no". Back-o-the-napkin calcs give the motor a
resistance of .55 Ohms. At 144V, that's 260A, 37583W, 50HP. Is this correct?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So what is the cost of the STM-180's new?
And the BB600 cells?
Who sells them?
Christopher Zach wrote:
Jack Murray wrote:
If someone sells on ebay and "doesn't know" if good or bad, assume bad!
So these must be the "flooded nicads" I hear talked about?
What do they cost new?
These are not "those" flooded NiCDs. These are really *nice* flooded NiCds.
The ones I go on about are the SAFT/Marathon BB600 cells. They provide
30ah capacity, and need to be watered by hand. Which is probably going
to be a real pain in the rear. On the other hand, they seem to be pretty
durable and they do put out a lot of power.
Data point. The truck was about 20ah down today after the inspection
(which it failed due to my need to tighten the parking brake cables.
*sigh*). However even flooring it to 200a draw it was putting out 270
volts on a 252 cell pack. Or just a hair under 1.0 volts per cell. Which
is not too bad.
Big problem with the BB600s is that 30-40ah capacity. These SAFTs have
180ah capacity, and have plumbing for auto-watering.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
It will be a few weeks before I have my sites moved over to my new server,
but once I get that done, I'd be glad to host you. Do you still have all
the content?
Matt
PS - I think creating standards is a GREAT idea. Once I understand what the
hell you guys are talking about, I'll jump on that bandwagon... :)
On 8/29/06, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike Willmon said ....Just think if thousands of small startup EV
conversion companies started putting out 5-10 cars a year.... Still not an
issue unless we agree on a standard set of interfaces for our parts that can
be readily replaced. Like the computer industry does with video cards. Then
we can scare em. (heh, "death by a thousand cuts(cars)" I like it.
For you other computer nerds out there
How about creating an RFC containing interface standards for Controller
mechanical,electrical and communication protocols.
Interface adapters could be made for things like the curtis to help
grandfather them in.
Everyone share their adapter designs and let the common denominators
fall out of this, I really think if all 9" motors provided old small block
chevy crank patterns then we could use racing clutches, adapter kits etc
from the automotive world.
I designed my adapter towards this idea: a bell on the motor that can be
CNCed out of aluminum, later to become a casting that is just cleaned up.
This generates the backset needed for each application and differs in only
the depth dimension. Perhaps there is a deminsion or two that will do the
trick, i have to convert more vehicles to know. A flat adapter plate is
water jet to size and cnc mounting holes done.This plate is flat and the
thickness can be varied without added cost because of the flat nature to
fine tune the set-back.
Racing clutches have a standard that is independent of
ford,chevy.nissan,....by
adopting it, we can buy used,surplus, or new commodity instead of custom.
But this all assumed keeping the tranny, basically RWD setups. I would
need more input from the community to flesh this concept out. I was
practicing what I preach with the patterns posted on my website, but I lost
my server's home and it needs a new one.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The STM5-180s are outstanding modules with the considerable advantages that
nickel based chemistry confers. But I'd be careful if you can't determine
these modules' history. Also be aware that Saft specify a somewhat unusual
charging algorithm. That matters less here where you don't get a warranty,
but still is of concern if you want long life.
STMs are excellent batteries for cold weather states. They are more
problematic for the south. Operation at high temps causes a big hit on
cycle life. Even charging at high temps is bad for them. Aggressive cooling
is very important with these batteries.
You can not pack them into the battery box, meaning that even though they're
of similar size, they are not a direct replacement for golf car batteries.
They should have 1/2" of space between rows, and forced air cooling.
They do get hot when in operation. It's a very good idea to monitor module
temperatures and preferably have your temp monitor tell the controller to
cut back on the current if they exceed about 40 deg C.
They are not high current batteries. If you want a performance car, you'll
probably want to use an AGM booster pack for high currents.
Saft says 1C (180a) continuous, 5C (900a) for 15 seconds. That's probably
fine for the post-1999 production. However, for this 1996 production which
has the earlier separators I would suggest 2.5C (450a) for 15 seconds and
allow at least 10 minutes between 2.5C episodes, better yet monitor
temperature. STMs will last a long time (1500 - 3000 cycles depending on
which Saft reference you are believe) if never run over 1C. Ask them to
deliver high currents more than occasionally and they are subject to
catastrophic failure, as Ralph Merwin will attest.
Frequent watering is also important with these earlier STMs. These don't
have the recombinant feature of the MR/MRE range, so weekly watering
probably wouldn't be too much.
One final note, cycle life aside, Saft claimed 100,000km in EV service
(about 60,000 miles). If Christopher is right and these modules really have
60k miles on them already, I'd be pretty hesitant to pay $50 each or more
for them.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, okay, then is it possible to calculate stall torque from what's
known about this motor?
Jeff Major wrote:
No, incorrect. You can not treat motor as a resistor unless it is at stall
because it has back EMF, which is speed dependant.
jeff
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Would it be problematic to run this motor at 120 or 144V? From reading the list, my
first reaction would be "no". Back-o-the-napkin calcs give the motor a
resistance of .55 Ohms. At 144V, that's 260A, 37583W, 50HP. Is this correct?
Mark McCurdy wrote:
what about item 10-1422, same page?
I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor...
would be fantastic if you could
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Husted"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Hey all
Busy email night for me tonight, had to go eat a little dinner 8^ )
I saw this post earlier and did want to say I went and checked it
out. Looks like a good motor, just might have to buy myself one,
hehe. Get an album on how I mod it to run both ways and such if in
fact it's a pump not a drive 8^ ) I was busy at work today so I need
to go back and take another look.
The price is awesome but it's the freight that'll punch my budget a
bit passed what I'd care for just after an event. Lee is correct in
that this ain't no 2 HP motor 8^ ) This is a good sized motor capable
of good loads and GE makes a really good motor on larger motors. I
don't care for their 6" sizes compared to ADC or Prestolite (don't get
me started) but their big motors are made really well. Anyone in the
Oregon area want one too, we can share the freight on a pair, hehe.
Jim's two thumbs up !!
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Lawrence Rhodes
wrote:
Jim would you like to chime in here? Thanks a bunch. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cover"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
--- Lee Hart wrote:
I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
(www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous
duty,
open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9"
dia x
14.5" long, 149 lbs.
Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an
Advanced DC
9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
And, it's compound wound!
Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
good candidate for a cheap EV!
-- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful,
committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm curious. Did Curtis want you to use this place?
> http://www.fsip.biz/
>
Man, I hope not - they charge $727.27 to repair any 1231C model!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not from the data I see. But, 2 Hp at 1050 RPM gives 10 lb ft running torque
at 72 amps. Not an exact way of doing things, but in ball park....10 lb ft
divided by 72 amps gives 0.138 lb ft per amp. So if you have 500 amp limit
controller, expect around 70 lb ft max torque.
jeff
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hmm, okay, then is it possible to calculate stall torque from what's
known about this motor?
Jeff Major wrote:
> No, incorrect. You can not treat motor as a resistor unless it is at stall
> because it has back EMF, which is speed dependant.
>
> jeff
>
> Eric Poulsen wrote:
> Would it be problematic to run this motor at 120 or 144V? From reading the
> list, my first reaction would be "no". Back-o-the-napkin calcs give the motor
> a resistance of .55 Ohms. At 144V, that's 260A, 37583W, 50HP. Is this correct?
>
>
> Mark McCurdy wrote:
>
>> what about item 10-1422, same page?
>> I'm worried that you can't push a lot of volts into either motor...
>> would be fantastic if you could
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Husted"
>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>>
>>
>> Hey all
>>
>> Busy email night for me tonight, had to go eat a little dinner 8^ )
>> I saw this post earlier and did want to say I went and checked it
>> out. Looks like a good motor, just might have to buy myself one,
>> hehe. Get an album on how I mod it to run both ways and such if in
>> fact it's a pump not a drive 8^ ) I was busy at work today so I need
>> to go back and take another look.
>> The price is awesome but it's the freight that'll punch my budget a
>> bit passed what I'd care for just after an event. Lee is correct in
>> that this ain't no 2 HP motor 8^ ) This is a good sized motor capable
>> of good loads and GE makes a really good motor on larger motors. I
>> don't care for their 6" sizes compared to ADC or Prestolite (don't get
>> me started) but their big motors are made really well. Anyone in the
>> Oregon area want one too, we can share the freight on a pair, hehe.
>> Jim's two thumbs up !!
>> Hope this helps
>> Jim Husted
>> Hi-Torque Electric
>>
>>
>> Lawrence Rhodes
>>
> wrote:
>
>> Jim would you like to chime in here? Thanks a bunch. Lawrence
>> Rhodes......
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cover"
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
>>
>>
>>
>>> Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
>>>
>>> --- Lee Hart wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
>>>> (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
>>>>
>>>> DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
>>>> traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous
>>>>
>>> duty,
>>>
>>>> open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9"
>>>>
>>> dia x
>>>
>>>> 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
>>>>
>>>> Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an
>>>>
>>> Advanced DC
>>>
>>>> 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
>>>> 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
>>>>
>>>> And, it's compound wound!
>>>>
>>>> Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
>>>> good candidate for a cheap EV!
>>>> -- > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful,
>>>>
>>> committed
>>>
>>>> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
>>>> has!" -- Margaret Mead
>>>> --
>>>> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>>>>
>>> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
>> rates.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
> faster.
>
>
>
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've rebuilt hundreds of dc motor controllers. I'm shocked that either
they charge way too much or I charge way too little :)
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Death to All Spammers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I'm curious. Did Curtis want you to use this place?
> > http://www.fsip.biz/
> >
>
> Man, I hope not - they charge $727.27 to repair any 1231C model!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> One final note, cycle life aside, Saft claimed 100,000km in EV service
> (about 60,000 miles). If Christopher is right and these modules
really have
> 60k miles on them already, I'd be pretty hesitant to pay $50 each or
more
> for them.
>
All true points, but weren't the buses being sold in a different
state? $50 each, you could have plenty of dead ones before you spent
as much as the NiMH's here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=006&item=160021722210
- may not be apples-to-oranges, but another point to consider.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I've rebuilt hundreds of dc motor controllers. I'm shocked that either
> they charge way too much or I charge way too little :)
>
> Mike
It may be the market they are in - LogiSystems charges much less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anybody know if Victor is on an extended vacation? I've written to
him and left telephone messages for him continuously for the last three
weeks requesting the Siemens price list. He hasn't responded in any
way. I even used multiple e-mail addresses just in case some spam
filter is getting the requests or the responses.
So does anybody know what happened to him? Is he on vacation? Is he on
the verge of going out of business, thus not bothering to respond?
Thanks,
Jake Oshins
P.S. If anybody actually has a recent Siemens price list, could you send
it to me directly so that I can make a rough comparison with other
options?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim and other motor heads...
Realating to timing and motor over loads on Gone postal.
And Rod's thick head....
For Rod's point of view and supporting his idea.....
His best seat of the pants launch was years ago with a launch in third
grear... OK for racing... you have a LOT going on in the launch in Gp.. two
drives, clutch, shifter... and a Cranky chassis that just wants to be left
alone...Accelerate??? not without some kilo amps...
Also... the launch control nightmare with Gp is substantial.. Shift,
throttle and pray... any order you want.. just do it all...
Every time you lift to shift GP.. you take the full throttle command off the
back Zilla and loose the series parallel event... Starting in 2nd You have
to shift.. In 3rd.. maybe not.. but you are going to have a really high RPM
on the front motor, and most likey.. it won't be pulling much of any amps
above about 60 mph... and that's not even half track. So .. you really DO
need to shift and often.
I think launch in 2nd speed shift to 3rd... let it tack out, then grab
5th...yea 5th.. floor it.. and then reach down and toggle in the Parallel
mode..if it's not happened yet, Should be the best ride.
The trick is get the gear box set of the last have of the track, Full
throttle the controllers, then let the series/parallel happen or force it
to...
Presto... 100 mph...coming soon!
So What works... for Rod.. and what should be used on the street when you
are trying to move along with the least motor carnage.. and that elusive 100
time slip.. are two totally different concepts.
For the street.. the lowest gear possible and the lightest amperage to get
the job done and up to speed, Hey you've got time... and there are 4800 Buck
worth of motors out there... Lets Keep Rich from Bitching..(That would be
ME!).
Rip the wheels off and find somthing less than a foot wide, but still
has chrome on it... or polished aluminum...
And start in First gear.. and well just shift... nice and easy... get the Rs
up and the amps down... Hey lets not feed the Pigs...
I just slid through the Kingston Speed trap 4 times... In Sage.. MpG is the
name of the game.. In Goldie.. well I would have been going a Bit faster...
Marko's Fiat.. Tons of advance... got all day to get there.. 18 Deg is
fine....Gut less but efficent, Nice.... good idea.
In Gp... 2.5 tons of lead iron and Aluminum... NEED torque... and LOTS of
it. Less Advance... zero would be nice, but then 5000 rpm would not happen
with 170 motor volts, and a week to get there.
But it would get to 20 or 30 in a hurry. So the best timing tune has to do
with your needs. Gp needs torque. I will assume, Jimmy Ma Boy, that you set
the front motor to about 10 Deg Advanced.. or the Stock advanced hole
set......Right?....RIIIIIIGhhtt? This should give about the best
compromise. With 5 gears to paly with this is not a bad set up. IF you use
the lower gears.
Starting in 3rd....will work, but at the expense of 500 plus motor amps. or
more just to get started. Bet with first on hand.. I can get it up to speed
with out ever having to use more than 500 motor amps.
Hey... if it's not yours..do no harm.
But NOOOooooo rod tells Tim and John to just leave it in 3rd Gear. Uhhhhh
What??? this is exactly how I Purpled up the comm Back in '03.......I had to
use 2nd and a light foot, I used the back drives to hump the Crate up to 50
then dropped them off and used the front with the tranny most of the time.
We had no first then... they do now, I hear.... that means I could do polite
burn offs..at every light and not use more than about 400 motor amps for the
fun stuff....
I hear John purpled up the now newer brush holders... listening to Rod's
Sage advice....Geez folks... Can't we learn this lesson once instead of
every few years????
Is the front motor over loaded??
Sure it is..Rod's driving it right????
I might have to dig out the Green motor case for Goldie....
I owe it to ya Jim
Madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Every time you lift to shift GP.. you take the full throttle
> command off the back Zilla and loose the series parallel
> event...
> I think launch in 2nd speed shift to 3rd... let it tack out,
> then grab 5th...yea 5th.. floor it.. and then reach down and
> toggle in the Parallel mode..if it's not happened yet, Should
> be the best ride.
Rich & Rod, the DCPs had a shift blanking feature that sounds like what
is really needed here; do the 'Zillas have something similar, or some
sort of enable/disable control signal that could be pressed into
service?
Sounds like what is really desired is to be able to keep the pedal to
the metal through the shift so that the rear drive keeps pushing the
whole time, including doing the series/parallel shift if appropriate,
regardless of what the front drive is doing. Rig up some sort of shift
blanking on the front 'Zilla so that only the front drive is taken
offline during the shift (while the throttle remains matted).
If the 'Zilla doesn't have a suitable shift blanking feature, it should
be possible to mimic such a feature by using a switch on the clutch
pedal to place an appropriate value resisance across the front 'Zilla's
throttle pot such that as soon as you begin pushing in the clutch the
front 'Zilla's throttle command is reduced to a safe (or 0) level for
the shift, and as soon as the clutch is fully released, the full
throttle command is instantly reapplied.
Alternatively, if the 'Zilla is enforcing a safe rev limit on the front
motor, it is probably just as feasible to simply powershift without
lifting or blanking the throttle... the only disadvantage would seem to
be a bunch more clutch wear due to full power slippage as the clutch is
disengaged and reengaged.
Just a thought...
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John
That guide effort sounds like a good project. I will try to arrange
time to memorize and document at least the main points. Let's keep in
contact off-line.
Seppo
John Luck Home kirjoitti 27.8.2006 kello 12.00:
Its good thatyou have the "grin " back Seppo. My own Citroen
Berlingo (same as partner) is also off the road for a couple of
months now since the controller board went bang. I am still trying
to get a replacement at a sensible cost.
It would be interesting to hear the process you went through to
change the motor. Me and another Berlingo owner in the UK are
writing up various procedures for changing out parts in these ev's
so that we can post a guide on the web for other owners. We have
already done, battery packs, controller and heater instructions and
it would be nice to add some help for motor removal.
John
www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk
----- Original Message ----- From: "Seppo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: EV grin is back!
I got this problem with the commutator of my Peugeot Partner
Electric in the spring, and the car has been standing still
waiting for the new motor and its installation. Last weekend I
completed the motor change and the car is on the road again.
Special thanks to Marc Boden for arranging the spare motor, and
to Jukka "'Lithium Boy" Järvinen for a parking place and valuable
support!
Seppo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just won item 190024106052 on ebay, did I get a good price?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: STM-180 in SoCal
Mike Phillips wrote:
Just as Chris said. The BB600 is a Cell not a battery. It litterally
is 1.2v nominal, 1.5ish fully charged.
Chris: 1v per cell would make a 252v output. So 270v on 252 cells is
better than 1v per cell. Which is terrific!
They typically sit at 1.2 ish at rest (300v), down to 1.1 ish under load
(275), 1.5ish (375v) at full charge. 1.0 with no load is supposed to be
"empty", and the Dolphin will keep them above 1.0 vpc average using the
low voltage cut-out.
It will be interesting to see if your numbers match mine. The truck is
still more peppy and perky than the one I drove with brand new 42ah
hawkers and a 325 volt base voltage.
Chris
--- End Message ---
