EV Digest 5813
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Victor/Metric Mind
by Jim Waite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV grin is back!
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Drill powered EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: contactor
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 48V Series motor controller
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: contactor
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Victor/Metric Mind
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: [seva] NEDRA @ RPM Show load-in photos
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Battery cooling (was: Re: 06 NEDRA Late Nite Nationals)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: 60 foot times (was: Harley Drags)
by "BFRListmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Still batteries
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 48v charging question
by Green VW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) "Torque Attack" flag ship (was Re: [seva] NEDRA @ RPM)
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Valence-powered EV on eBay
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Danger den magII water pump
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Last ride for a bit with the BB600's
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Belleville Washers
by "Fred Hartsell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Paging Roderick Wilde
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Electric tractors - MotherEarth News
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I saw him at PIR Saturday night, and he also posted to the List
yesterday.........
(Maybe he's still catching his breath from the weekends awsome *DC-powered*
EVents....:-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seppo - to give you an idea here is the guide for removing the front
lower battery pack. This is a first draft.
Regards
John
PS any idea where I could get a controller cheap ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seppo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: EV grin is back!
Hello John
That guide effort sounds like a good project. I will try to arrange time
to memorize and document at least the main points. Let's keep in contact
off-line.
Seppo
John Luck Home kirjoitti 27.8.2006 kello 12.00:
Its good thatyou have the "grin " back Seppo. My own Citroen Berlingo
(same as partner) is also off the road for a couple of months now since
the controller board went bang. I am still trying to get a replacement
at a sensible cost.
It would be interesting to hear the process you went through to change
the motor. Me and another Berlingo owner in the UK are writing up
various procedures for changing out parts in these ev's so that we can
post a guide on the web for other owners. We have already done, battery
packs, controller and heater instructions and it would be nice to add
some help for motor removal.
John
www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk
----- Original Message ----- From: "Seppo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: EV grin is back!
I got this problem with the commutator of my Peugeot Partner Electric
in the spring, and the car has been standing still waiting for the new
motor and its installation. Last weekend I completed the motor change
and the car is on the road again.
Special thanks to Marc Boden for arranging the spare motor, and to
Jukka "'Lithium Boy" Järvinen for a parking place and valuable support!
Seppo
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rush,
I saw a kids midget car at a car show a couple years ago that the fellow
powered with a 9.6V Makita. Really simple drive and the "throttle" was just a
pedal pushing a rod that went thru the firewall and pushed on the drills
trigger. Really very ingenious. The metal bodied jeep looking car would go at
a brisk walking pace although I don't know what the range was. David Chapman.
Quoting Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi,
>
> I just got back from my weekly 'sit at Borders and read all the mags' and in
> Workbench mag found a company that makes a EV that you can power with a
> portable drill. The website is www.dpxsystems.com but there is no info at the
> website, so I may have copied the url wrong.
>
> The scooter is small framed and there is a holder for an 18v drill (dewalt
> shown, IIRC). There supposedly holders for other drills and they claim 25
> mph... no price.
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
FastQ Communications
Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark
I have a similar one I might use on my car. It sure is a big honkin' contator.
A little overkill,
but it looks impressive. I think mine has an optimizer circuit. I'd like to
figure out how to
rewind it to 12 volts. I already have 2 Curtis Albrights I plan on using, so
this one is an extra.
Let me know how you fit it in.
Dave Cover
PS I got mine with a motor, so I'm not sure how to value it. The motor alone
was worth more than I
paid. The question is, can you make it work well in your EV?
--- Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just won item 190024106052 on ebay, did I get a good price?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:56 PM
> Subject: Re: STM-180 in SoCal
>
>
> > Mike Phillips wrote:
> >> Just as Chris said. The BB600 is a Cell not a battery. It litterally
> >> is 1.2v nominal, 1.5ish fully charged.
> >>
> >> Chris: 1v per cell would make a 252v output. So 270v on 252 cells is
> >> better than 1v per cell. Which is terrific!
> >
> > They typically sit at 1.2 ish at rest (300v), down to 1.1 ish under load
> > (275), 1.5ish (375v) at full charge. 1.0 with no load is supposed to be
> > "empty", and the Dolphin will keep them above 1.0 vpc average using the
> > low voltage cut-out.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see if your numbers match mine. The truck is
> > still more peppy and perky than the one I drove with brand new 42ah
> > hawkers and a 325 volt base voltage.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No. I emailed the Curtis factory directly and they quoted $1200 for a
rebuild regardless of what's wrong with the controller. Seems like they don't
want to do very many rebuilds. :^ (
Patrick
>From: Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Curtis Controller Rebuilder?
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:25:48 -0400
To: [email protected]
Hi Patrick,
I'm curious. Did Curtis want you to use this place?
http://www.fsip.biz/
-Dave
On Aug 30, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Patrick Maston wrote:
> Hello. Does anyone on the list rebuild Curtis controllers? I have a
> 1231C that I want to have rebuilt. I asked Curtis about it and they
> want almost as much as a new controller.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick
---------------------------------
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Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
A friend found himself roped into helping someone with a forklift that had
cleaned their SCR controller down with something flammable... not a lot
left, but the contactors survived.
I don't know how many amps a forklift takes (the more the merrier, I guess)
Jim or John, any idea?
Getting a replacement Curtis/etc here in Australia you pretty much have to
pay list, maybe getting 10% or so as a reseller, unlike other markets that
have a lot more competition.
So does anyone have a supplier for a suitable controller at a good price to
get for this guy? If it is cheap enough I may get one to upgrade my 48V Cat
M50 fork, too.
Thanks
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Huh? 24V?
PECO-2 is a telecom power supply, I just took one apart
in the office, including EXACTLY one of these contactors
(plus about 20 pcs 100A 80V breakers, lots of copper
buss bar and many tens of feet cable PLUS a rack of
4 pcs 48V 50A battery chargers -
Anybody interested in a good deal?)
Anyway - the PECO-2 has 48V as its operating voltage, so
I would expect that this contactor is actually designed for
48V though it may work well enough at 24V, possibly it
does not need an economiser circuit at reduced voltage,
I have no experience with them (yet).
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark McCurdy
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: contactor
Just won item 190024106052 on ebay, did I get a good price?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: STM-180 in SoCal
> Mike Phillips wrote:
>> Just as Chris said. The BB600 is a Cell not a battery. It litterally
>> is 1.2v nominal, 1.5ish fully charged.
>>
>> Chris: 1v per cell would make a 252v output. So 270v on 252 cells is
>> better than 1v per cell. Which is terrific!
>
> They typically sit at 1.2 ish at rest (300v), down to 1.1 ish under load
> (275), 1.5ish (375v) at full charge. 1.0 with no load is supposed to be
> "empty", and the Dolphin will keep them above 1.0 vpc average using the
> low voltage cut-out.
>
> It will be interesting to see if your numbers match mine. The truck is
> still more peppy and perky than the one I drove with brand new 42ah
> hawkers and a 325 volt base voltage.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jake, I'm alive and well, but don't seem to have any of your emails
requesting price quote.
I just sent it to your microsoft email address.
I was out of state for a week, but it was 2 weeks ago.
Victor
Jake Oshins wrote:
Does anybody know if Victor is on an extended vacation? I've written to
him and left telephone messages for him continuously for the last three
weeks requesting the Siemens price list. He hasn't responded in any
way. I even used multiple e-mail addresses just in case some spam
filter is getting the requests or the responses.
So does anybody know what happened to him? Is he on vacation? Is he on
the verge of going out of business, thus not bothering to respond?
Thanks,
Jake Oshins
P.S. If anybody actually has a recent Siemens price list, could you send
it to me directly so that I can make a rough comparison with other
options?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Damon
Funny how peoples perspectives can be so different. Although I was hoping
for both a larger race and daily turnout myself I felt that the EV's were
represented pretty well. The EV reakfast had a huge flow of people as the
weekend started. As far as the slower EV's go there were a fair amount of slow
gassers at the track also. I know that GP won the full run he got in and I
believe Ted won all of his and he went up against a pretty nice car a couple
times. I believe Otmar was beat by a really fast truck but his other runs were
I believe in front of the gassers he ran against 8^ )
I also find it funny how EV's just can't get a break even with EV'ers. The
slow guys don't give credit to the racers and then the racers don't give credit
to the daily non racer guys who bring their cars to help support the event and
who know they ain't fast but still want to strut they're stuff 8^ )
As far as running against the gassers goes, first I felt it was way better
than waiting to share the track with the Jr. dragsters like last year. The
other aspect is that we associate speed with sound and I find that the
electrics don't seem as fast unless ripping on a gasser that you can hear just
screaming to catch up 8^ )
PIR just let the guys install charging boxes so how awesome is that, this
shows interest! I personally talked to a bunch of people who saw a run or the
article in the newspaper and were looking for more info! We'll get the
announcers up to speed on voltage classes as time goes so others are in the
know, As like I said PIR seems to be interested in this EV aspect of racing.
I've built motors for about a dozen and a half, future, or existing EV'ers
this last year on top of a bunch of small EV stuff, so that's a couple EV
related jobs a month. Not a ton but a hell of a lot more than the first 24
years 8^) They have also ran from extreem like Johns and Jays to basic daily
driver stuff so interest is there at least foer me. Not a week goes by that
I'm not talking to someone who's looking or heard something about electric cars.
I also believe that a lot of folks spent their wad going to Joliet this year
which left this event a tad smaller 8^ ( Face it with events popping up
elsewhere there will have to be some added magic to help entice people to
attend the west coast gatherings! We need to motivate Tim and John to get on
the Purple Phase truck.
I've approached Dan Mortan (AKA Dan the airplane man) on hooking up with my
racer so maybe I can get her built before next year. Maybe I can hold a
Hi-Torque BBQ and get some peeps over to guide me and Dan a bit when needed 8^)
Being Dans very automotive and can do carbon fiber 8^o I believe we can put
together something very light and my plan is to kick johns ass so hard he won't
sit for a week 8^ P Of course he and Tim will probably have to help me do
that, hehe! I wasn't looking but found a 1972 Datson 1200 Fastback cheap, like
in free. Dan is supposed to come by and have a look at it this week. So with
any luck and a whole lot of help from some friends wink, wink, Hi-Torque's
"Torque Attack" flag ship will soon be started. So no one better steal the
name, I got dibbs 8^ P
Anyway the event inspired me to get off my ass and go collect cans on the
highway if I have to to get er done! Anyway That's my take on the event.
One more thing, anyone who might have come to the pits to poke a little fun
at the slow guy probably freaked out when they saw how small the little 7"
motor was running it, I wouldn't know as everyone I talked to was excited about
what they saw! It did suck battery Satan was out prowling Saturday night, that
I will conceed 8^ (
Of course winning Brian Halls FREAKING AWESOME E-BIKE might be clouding my
bias botton, hehehe!
8^ ) <--- new EV grin
I do believe that EV's right now are like a small fire, if we all don't
nurture it, it will snuff out. We all have to keep blowing on the embers until
we know that flame wont go out!
Just my two puffs worth
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rod, I hope you are right, and know that you along with others have put a
lot of heart and soul into Nedra over the years.
I've got to tell you I am just not seeing it myself. I was at PIR on Friday
night and saw exactly 5 EVs go down the track, two of which were extremely
slow, including one that induced side splitting belly laughs from many of
the gasser fans on hand. I mean this was one of the premier and most hyped
Nedra events of the year. It felt like just another night at PIR with the
Wayland team to me, but then again maybe I'm spoiled.
One problem with having the electrics at gasser events is that no one in the
crowd understands that there are voltage classes. So while almost everyone
that has never seen White Zombie launch hard off the line is amazed, when
something running in one of the lower voltage classes steps up to the line,
people can't figure out why it is on the drag strip in the first place.
Some of these lower voltage machines don't even reach freeway merging speed.
So between lack of participation and the underwhelming performance of many
EVs being presented I don't see anything changing anytime soon. We need
many more Z2K powered machines running down the track with high voltage
packs to really make some ...err silence :-)
I do hope that the Road and Track driver does a fitting writeup. Even that
seems a bit iffy, especially since I was led to believe that he did not have
much experience on the drag strip to compare against. I'm not sure where I
got that idea, so maybe I am wrong, but it would be nice if he could start
his story with something like, I've tested tricked out Vipers, souped up
Vettes, and bone stock Porshes, but I've never felt pure acceleration from a
dead stop like I did on Friday night at PIR...
With writers you never know until the story is printed.
I'm not trying to discount any of the EV promoting efforts you and other
members of Nedra have accomplished. I just don't see anything but the same
ole same ole in the near to midterm future. I think the fact that a new
batch of factory engineered and built EVs are being prematurely sent to the
crusher is actually more telling of what lies ahead for anyone but the EV
hobbiest.
Here's hoping I'm wrong. In the meantime I will continue to cruise around
Vancouver WA on my Electric Motorcyle with parts purchased through
EVParts.com :-)
Damon Henry
>From: "Roderick Wilde"
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To:
>CC: "SEVA"
>Subject: Re: [seva] NEDRA @ RPM Show load-in photos
>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:31:44 -0700
>
>Thanks so much Roy for the photo updates. I do not believe that most on
>this list realize the significance of NEDRA being recognized as one of
>three major racing organizations to be represented at the RPM Trade Show,
>http://www.aera.org/rpm/attend/index.html This is also a great day for all
>EVs. This in conjunction with the upcoming article in Car and Driver will
>mean that NEDRA and EVs have entered the arena of the mainstream press. We
>have finally made it after nine long years of battling misconceptions. I
>think the world is finally ready for us. Hang on to your hats for next
>years racing season.
>
>Roderick Wilde
>NEDRA Marketing Director
>
>
>>Hi Folks
>>
>>We thought some may like these :^D
>>
>>Set-up day at the show. Tomorrow the crowds come.
>>
>>http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM01.jpg
>>http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM02.jpg
>>http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM03.jpg
>>http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM04.jpg
>>http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM05.jpg
>>http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM06.jpg
>>http://www.retro-electro.org/RPM07.jpg
>>
>>More to come.
>>Roy
>>...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Roy LeMeur
>>NEDRA NW Regional Director
>>www.nedra.com
>>
>>My EV and RE Project Pages-
>>http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>>
>>Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
>>http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>>
>>
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>Visit the SEVA website at http://www.seattleeva.org
>>If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing, send mail to
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of: unsubscribe seva
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My thought from the sidelines (its worth everything you paid for it :-)
If all hell is breaking loose at very low rpms then perhaps the motor
needs a little less advance. My understanding is that the need for
advance is from the twisting of the field due to armature rotation. As
the 9 starts turning (still slowly at the start of launch) there might
be some severe comm segment voltage changes as each one goes out from
under the brush (not enough rotation yet to move the neutral point
nearly that far from 0.)
Of course less advance has a flip side. More arcing potential at high
rpm. That would dictate caution because the motor is also seeing the
most voltage at high rpm (but at least the amps are down some.)
Of course it may just be Rod's fault ;-) He has an electric
personality; perhaps he shouldn't be that close to a running electric
motor <G>. Of course, I'm not going to be the one who tries to connect
a ground strap to Rod!
Paul G.
On Aug 30, 2006, at 7:06 AM, Jim Husted wrote:
As far as motors go there is a big difference between a motor that
can do the job and a motor that is happy about it, or at least not
pissed off about it 8^ P. Anyway from what I've seen and caught on
tape it's the startup that causes the sever arcing and such. Just so
you know it's the same for me as the motor guy, as it is for the
racers trying to figuer it out, what came first the chicken or the
egg.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/30/06 3:41:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Battery cooling (was: Re: 06 NEDRA Late Nite Nationals)
Date: 8/30/06 3:41:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Can someone please tell me why seemingly noone with a high performance EV
considers it important to keep their batteries from cooking under high load or
charge?
We all do this, don't we?
By packing all the batteries together with no way to get heat out between
them, the middle batteries or cells in the battery blocks simply cooks.
Example: The battery that Wayland let the smoke out of on Saturday was the
one dead center in the pack. Similar perhaps for Otmar's Exide post delam...
It wouldn't take a lot to design our boxes to incorporate honeycomb panels
between batteries allowing rigidity and the ability to duct ventilation air
between the batteries or cells (if NiCd or Lithiums).
I'd be interested to hear what battery cooling people have done and the
results for the high load cases.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>
*** There is a half inch between my hawker batteries for force air cooling.I
race where the begining temp of the pack is at 105+F and after 10 runs the
pack temp is less than 125F.I agree with Bill Dube that racers should have
BMS,it
does help to keep batteries at a constant temp.My force air cooling starts in
after the 4th round when batt.temp is at 118 to 120F.I get 450 to 500 passes
before my batteries show signs of degradeing.At that point I sell them to
welders for SLI use.The cases are not deformed at all and through the last 4
years
I have only had 2 comebacks on all the used batteries I sold from the current
eliminator dragster. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
I didn't realize that moving the weight up affects this. That is an option.
Otherwise, the bike is a bit too small to be moving components around.
Although I could sit up straight at launch, instead of laid out across the
bike. That's more for aerodynamics downtrack.
I did have the burnout almost to your specs. Only took a couple of tries to
become a semi pro. I've only seen track conditions this bad once, and that
was when I decided to go to a full on slick. But I'll through all the
traction tricks I can at her.
Thanks,
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:18 PM
Subject: 60 foot times (was: Harley Drags)
> If you are spinning the tire on the strip, your CG is to low and/or
> too far forward.
>
> The coefficient of friction on the track can be as high as 3.0
> (compared to the street which is about 1.2).
>
> Draw a line on the ground, starting at the contact point of the rear
> tire, that is three feet (or yards) long. Go up from the end of that
> line one foot (or one yard.) This will form a triangle. The part of
> the triangle that goes from the tip of the one-foot line to the
> contact point is your optimal CG angle for the track. Your CG (with
> you included) must lie on this line.
>
> If your CG is above this line, the bike will lift the front tire and
> perhaps "blow over" off the line. If your CG is below this line, the
> rear tire will spin. If you CG is right on this line, there will be
> zero weight on the front tire and the bike will launch as quickly as
> the rear tire will allow it to.
>
> You can adjust the bike CG by moving the rear tire or the position
> of the battery pack. You can move the CG to the correct CG line for
> your bike by moving weight up and/or back. Your present CG is too low
> and/or too far forward.
>
> Moving weight back makes the bike less sensitive to varying track
> conditions but makes it blow over more quickly. Moving weight forward
> makes the bike more sensitive to track conditions, but makes it blow
> over much more slowly. It also tends to make the bike a touch more
> stable at the high end.
>
> You can adjust the CG of the bike quite a bit by adjusting your
> riding position at the launch. That is why there are two steps on the
> seat of a drag bike body.
>
> Once you get the tire to bite, then you can start to play with the
gearing.
>
> Walk the bike around the water box so you don't get the front tire
> wet. Back into the water box. Do do the best burn-out, grab the front
> brake and stand up on the track with the bike between your knees.
> Wack the throttle and, once the tire is spinning, rock the bike
> gently to evenly roast the tire. Slowly release the front brake,
> allow the bike to move forward until the tire hits dry pavement. As
> soon as the tire bites, sit down and release the throttle.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
> --
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All other variables constant isn't possible. If you change the voltage
but don't change the max amps then the motor watts (peak power) falls
with the voltage. If you change the voltage and maintain the same
maximum watts then the maximum battery amperage has to increase.
You need to define the question better to get useful answers. Often
this question revolves around the choice of 6v GC batteries and 8v GC
batteries. In that case constant power is likely the better option (by
all reports 8v's like to dish out only 3/4ths the amps.) If you can
help be defining two potential EV systems (batteries, controller,
motor) then the abundant experience of this list can better help you
(almost always.)
The other thought that comes to my mind is:
Is there any EVer in your area that could let you test drive their EV?
That is how I got my first taste of EV :-)
Paul G.
On Aug 29, 2006, at 3:38 PM, Storm Connors wrote:
I have never driven an electric car, so here is my
rephrased question. Would I note a significant
performance difference between 96, 120, and 144 volt
battery pack if all the other variables were constant?
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Aaron wrote:
>60-70 mile range on what must be a 200lb (ish) pack
sounds GREAT!
13 Valence U24-12XPs would weigh ~430 lb, although
these look like the older version. I have 12
U24-12XPs in my '66 Mustang convertible; I'm not sure
about range yet, since efficiency appears to vary
greatly depending on how I drive it. I'm still
learning and tweaking.
>No suspension mods!?!??
My car is close to stock weight, so I retained the
stock suspension. I didn't modify the body either.
A new AC/Valence conversion for $27K per their website
is way cheaper than what I bought my DC/Valence parts
for at $29K; $8K for this prototype would be a steal
if all the components still have lots of life left in
them.
Chris Jones
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/733
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Roger..
The Zilla has it's own shift blanking throw the relays, sequence... That's
been well engineered by Otmar.
What needs to happen is as you say lock the back all the way on, The shift
the fronts for all you are worth!.
This single Gear launch is a Joke....and breaks stuff.
The backs have never been able to spin off the line.. so toggling on the
power is OK.. But.. still I like control. Rod..well I am not sure. But he
has taken some
exciting rides in Gp. Let him explain it...
We have never gotten the launch sequence right... in either of our minds...
and Gp has never made a full power run without some kind of issues.
Now it needs a pair of 600 amp breakers, and some well thought out throttle
pot latching and control.
The thought of the Back staying locked on ... is a fearfull one.
But ...I Expect Gp to be parked for another year... once the rains start
again.
All Go needs is some calm cool runs without Rod's Tail feathers being on
fire...
Or who ever is actually driving it...
But you all get the point.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > Every time you lift to shift GP.. you take the full throttle
> > command off the back Zilla and loose the series parallel
> > event...
>
> > I think launch in 2nd speed shift to 3rd... let it tack out,
> > then grab 5th...yea 5th.. floor it.. and then reach down and
> > toggle in the Parallel mode..if it's not happened yet, Should
> > be the best ride.
>
> Rich & Rod, the DCPs had a shift blanking feature that sounds like what
> is really needed here; do the 'Zillas have something similar, or some
> sort of enable/disable control signal that could be pressed into
> service?
>
> Sounds like what is really desired is to be able to keep the pedal to
> the metal through the shift so that the rear drive keeps pushing the
> whole time, including doing the series/parallel shift if appropriate,
> regardless of what the front drive is doing. Rig up some sort of shift
> blanking on the front 'Zilla so that only the front drive is taken
> offline during the shift (while the throttle remains matted).
>
> If the 'Zilla doesn't have a suitable shift blanking feature, it should
> be possible to mimic such a feature by using a switch on the clutch
> pedal to place an appropriate value resisance across the front 'Zilla's
> throttle pot such that as soon as you begin pushing in the clutch the
> front 'Zilla's throttle command is reduced to a safe (or 0) level for
> the shift, and as soon as the clutch is fully released, the full
> throttle command is instantly reapplied.
>
> Alternatively, if the 'Zilla is enforcing a safe rev limit on the front
> motor, it is probably just as feasible to simply powershift without
> lifting or blanking the throttle... the only disadvantage would seem to
> be a bunch more clutch wear due to full power slippage as the clutch is
> disengaged and reengaged.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Roger.
>
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I am charging a new string of Deka Intimidators using a K&W BC-20
charger. Prior to connecting the charger each battery measured 12.4 to
12.6 volts. Measuring the charging voltage across the string I get
58.3 volts. I expected to get voltage readings across each individual
battery in the 14.5v range during bulk charging but instead get reading
of 13.0v on the most positive battery, 13.3v on battery 2, 15.79v on
battery 3 and 15.95v on the most negative battery. Anyone have any
ideas on why? The readings stay the same whether the Powercheq regs
are connected or not
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Jim,
Get an "under construction" page with the pic of the Duatsun and your super
secret siamese 9" you'll use as your secret weapon put up on the EVAlbum and
reserve your name.
(if you really have a secret weapon I didn't mean to let it out of the bag :-O
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
Jim Husted wrote:
"...So with any luck and a whole lot of help from some friends wink, wink,
Hi-Torque's "Torque Attack" flag ship will soon be started. So no one better
steal the name, I got dibbs 8^ P"
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:00 pm
Subject: Re: [seva] NEDRA @ RPM Show load-in photos
To: [email protected]
> Hey Damon
>
> Funny how peoples perspectives can be so different. <snip>
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Range seems about right
15*12 is a 180V nominal pack * 100ah = 18kwh * .8 = 14400/250wh/mile =
57.6 miles
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Rich Rudman wrote:
> The Zilla has it's own shift blanking throw the relays,
> sequence... That's been well engineered by Otmar.
OK; I was pretty sure Ot would have covered that off.
> What needs to happen is as you say lock the back all the way
> on, The shift the fronts for all you are worth!.
> This single Gear launch is a Joke....and breaks stuff.
>
> The backs have never been able to spin off the line.. so
> toggling on the power is OK.. But.. still I like control.
> The thought of the Back staying locked on ... is a fearfull one.
Perhaps I don't understand how GP is configured.
I was under the assumption that there were separate 'Zillas for the
front and rear drives, each controlled by its own throttle pot (but both
pots mechanically controlled by a single pedal), and each 'Zilla with
its own Hairball.
What I was suggesting was not to lock the rear drive on or control it in
a toggle fashion (as you say this could be fearful! ;^)
I'm suggesting that if the shift blanking is enabled *only* for the
front drive (since only it can shift), then the single throttle pedal
can remain matted (or at whatever setting is appropriate immediately
before the front shift) during the shift so that the rear drive remains
active pushing GP through the time required to shift gears on the front.
This would decrease the time lost to shifting that would occur if one
has to lift off the throttle during the shift to keep the front
drive/tranny happy, and would interfere less with the series/parallel
shifting of the rear motors (there might still be some impact as the
rear drives might briefly want to draw more current while the front
drive is offline during the shift and they suddenly have to carry the
full load).
Cheers,
Roger.
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The only thing I was told was to watch out for the fancy florescent die
antifreeze/anitfungal as it has particles that cause problems with this
style of pump.
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Jeff Major wrote:
> 2 Hp at 1050 RPM gives 10 lb ft running torque at 72 amps. Not an
> exact way of doing things, but in ball park....10 lb ft divided by
> 72 amps gives 0.138 lb ft per amp. So if you have 500 amp limit
> controller, expect around 70 lb ft max torque.
That's a conservative approximation. For a series motor, torque is
proportional to current squared. Since this is a compound motor, it has
both series and shunt fields so torque will be somewhat less; perhaps
current ^ 1.5.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Well, I'm going to have to put the truck away for a few weeks since the
temp tags are expiring, it flunked inspection (tires are dry rotted,
parking brake needs adjustment) and I just have other stuff going on.
However as a swan song I took the S10 out for a real drive tonight.
Fully charged with 252 BB600 cells in the boxes I went off to see what
it could do.
At 15ah down (about 14 miles) I got cold feet and stopped driving it on
the highway at 70mph. Battery pack was reading about 270 under 120 amp
load, 255 at 180a. So I drove back home.
Then I thought "drive some more". So I did. I drove up and down hills,
dales, etc. Got to 20ah, still [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24 still 270-268. Finally
ran out of desire to tempt fate at a full 26ah down and 25 miles.
The batteries would still provide 180a at 255 volts. I know they have a
fast drop off once they hit dead, but it looks like the BB600's can
easily provide 26ah at a draw rate of 4C.
Which is not too bad :-)
Chris
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Hey all
I'll try and pick one up and see how many teeth this camel has by counting
them instead of speculating 8^) I have Lee's back on this one as I believe it
has some real potential! Even if the coils turn out to be unfit for an EV, GE
makes a lot of these 1344 size motors and I'll shop around for some cheap
salvage series coils 8^ )
I have no idea what's with that data tag as a motor that size would pull 20
to 30 amps just running free at 12 volts and could pull hundreds of amps at
much higher current for long periods of time without breaking a sweat, at least
I know the arm can 8^). It wouldn't surprise me if in fact this motor even has
the heavy duty cast brass holders to boot!
Anyway I thought I'd chime in once again on this thread. I'll have to put
off buying one for a bit but if I can get one before they are gone I'll keep
you all appraised.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jeff Major wrote:
> 2 Hp at 1050 RPM gives 10 lb ft running torque at 72 amps. Not an
> exact way of doing things, but in ball park....10 lb ft divided by
> 72 amps gives 0.138 lb ft per amp. So if you have 500 amp limit
> controller, expect around 70 lb ft max torque.
That's a conservative approximation. For a series motor, torque is
proportional to current squared. Since this is a compound motor, it has
both series and shunt fields so torque will be somewhat less; perhaps
current ^ 1.5.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
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Has anyone ever used the Belleville washers on batteries? If so then do
they work?
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Rod,
I sent you multiple emails regarding volume purchase from evparts.com,
but I never heard back from you. Could you please contact me at EdAng
at airlabcorp dot com?
Thanks.
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
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Matt Milliron wrote:
Just an article you might find interesting.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Livestock_
and_Farming/2006_August_September/
Solar-electric_Mowers_TractorsR.
This article quotes Steve Heckeroth who I worked with for two years.
Here are links to some etractors we worked with during that time-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/tracpage.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage1.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage2.html
http://www.renewables.com/tracpage3.html
http://www.renewables.com/Permaculture/ElectricTractor.htm
Steve's website-
http://www.renewables.com
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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