EV Digest 5817
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: IGBT question
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Hot New RC Battery
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: BB600 odd nuts + 40 miles on first run!
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: IGBT question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Timer for charging
by "Jerry Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Cheap controllers
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: 192v charging question (9A31 Dekka Intimidators)
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: IGBT question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: 192v charging question (9A31 Dekka Intimidators)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Hot (stinky) batteries for breakfast
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Hot New RC Battery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: IGBT question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Timer for charging
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Another range question
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Timer for charging
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Practical questions: 144V & 1000A
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) [Fwd: Google Alert - Electric Vehicles]
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Timer for charging
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) (no subject)
by "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Battery cable needed
by Jim Dempsey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) NEDRA Helper elves
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Hot New RC Battery
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Battery cable needed
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Battery voltage monitor
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Dans new EV grin
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 31, 2006, at 10:49 AM, Jack Murray wrote:
btw, what is the difference between a "contactor", "solenoid", and a
"relay", they all seem the same to me..
Here's how I understand it.
A contactor generally makes or breaks a circuit. They tend to be
high-amp devices. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactor>
Relays come in more types - the common ones switch a common terminal
between two output terminals. They tend to be low-amp devices.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay>
A solenoid is an electromagnet that moves something linearly.
Contactors and relays contain solenoids.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solenoid>
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe it is mostly due the patent issues. NiMH is more unrelyable.
Lithium is more "open source".
Toshiba, Acer and Nokia would really love to change the whole product
because some made an oily decision.
-Jukka
fevt.com
David Dymaxion kirjoitti:
Thanks for that info.
Let's do a cell-by-cell comparison.
A123: Lithium, 3.3 V, 2.3 Ahr, ~100 g, 69 Amps continuous, 138 Amp
burst, ~$25 (manufacturer numbers)
3 IB4200 cells: Nimh, 3.6 V, 4.2 Ahr, ~200 g, 70 Amps continuous, 200
Amp burst ~$27 (current measures from hobbyist reports, not the
manufacturer)
So on a power/$ basis cost is about the same. On a power/kg basis
Lithium wins. On an energy/$ basis Nimh is about 1/2 the cost. On an
energy/kg basis Lithium wins.
So if you are a drag racer, go for Lithium. If you want to maximize
range for a fixed budget then the Nimh wins.
So 3 main points:
I'm surprised Nimh could come even close to Lithium performance.
Watching the competition is exciting! It looks like there are 2
technology paths for super EV batteries for an eventually decent
price.
The hybrid cars are using Nimh... Tools, cameras, and phones seem
to be leaning towards Lithium... That's two commercial paths for the
chemistries to get economies of scale.
--- Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The A123 are available now for RC from A123Racing.com. They have a
6.6V 4600mAh pack with a voltage booster to give a constant 7.2 or
8.4 volts. They claim 30C continuous and 60C burst. That is a 138
amps continuous and 276 Amps burst. A few of those could really
move
a scooter. And at $99 each that is very close to the $80 a pack
for
the IB4200s. I can see why they are using them in Bill's drag
bike. I would love to see what Dennis would do with a pack in the
CE.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's certainly a clue. Thanks for the help.
Mike
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Those are some weird nuts. Closest thing I could think of is that
> they're close to being a spanner nut or a tri groove nut.
>
> Then I found this:
>
>
http://www.securityfasteners.net/kinmar%20permanent%20security%20bolts%20and%20nuts.htm
>
> Take a look at the "Re-usable nut" picture on the left side. Very
> similar, but not exact.
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > The BB600 packs I got are 19 to a box. The box is something
> special,
> > but the nuts that hold the buss bars in place are not one I've seen
> > before. Here is a link. Please tell me what that nut it is so I can
> get
> > a socket for it.
> >
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/nuts2.jpg
> >
> > These BB600 cells are also different in that the normal 10-32
> screws
> > have been replaced with a 10-32 to 3/8" stud-standoff. You can see
> it
> > under the buss bar. Maybe for higher current. The buss bars and
> nuts
> > are covered with Cosmolene. So that's why they have a brown tint to
> > them.
> >
> > Tonight these cells on their first journey out took the USE truck
> 40
> > miles on 38ah at night, headlights and radio on, 66 degree ambient,
> > medium lead foot, 34-40mph in stop and go traffic with lots of stop
> > lights. Awesome first run! I think I can get 50 miles. So for a
> little
> > more weight the truck has well over doubled it's mileage on only
> 228
> > cells. There are 24 more going into the box, but they just arrived
> > today.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
> A contactor generally makes or breaks a circuit. They tend to be
> high-amp devices.
>
> Relays come in more types - the common ones switch a common terminal
> between two output terminals. They tend to be low-amp devices.
The other (perhaps "the") difference is that contactors open/close two
sets of contacts to switch the load, while relays (tend to) open/close a
single contact.
That is, a contactor looks like this:
=====
------o | o------
|
While a relay looks like this:
/
/
------o o------
Both relays and contactors may come in SPST or SPDT, etc. flavours, but
I've illustrated just the SPST-NO configuration for simplicity.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris try a restaurant supply house they may have them for the big coffee
pots, 30 amp size
Jerry NWO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:08 PM
Subject: Timer for charging
So after playing with the BB600's for awhile what I really think I need is
a 120 volt AC timer to control the charging.
The Dolphin charges at about 2.2ah and I can set the amount of time by
looking at the state of the E-meter. The question is who makes a good hour
clock charger that can turn on and off 15-20a @120 volts?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked over the LogiSystems website. It reminds me of the Golftech product
line.
Could these be the same people?
I cannot say that all my experiences with Golftech were positive.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Powercheq's spec 2A shuttling capacity. They're all pretty well balanced
right now so running an extended acceptance charge shouldn't hurt any of them.
They are non-dissapative so they don't even get hot. The Powercheqs start
firing at 75mV difference and are full on at 150mV. After the significant
discharge EVent yesterday I did immediately check block voltages. The average
was 11.80V with many at 11.82V and the two slackers were 11.67V and 11.69V.
~130mV difference puts them in the intermediate regulation range on the
Powercheqs and those two were firing. After the hour they were all up to 11.9V
+/- 80mV. Interestingly enough, I just went to the truck over lunch to check
the balance after the subsequent re-charge and drive to work this morning. The
lowest slacker is now higer than the average by 40mV and the 2nd lowest slacker
was at the average of 12.62V. It looks like they'll be fine. Keeping them
somewhat balanced on discharge too could well have prevented
reversing a cell. But as Lee stated, no doubt it cost me a $$ loss in life
expectancy.
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:44 pm
Subject: RE: 192v charging question (9A31 Dekka Intimidators)
To: [email protected]
> MIKE WILLMON wrote:
>
> > I am using the Powercheq 's so, as you mentioned, I should be
> > OK running with the timer off to characterize the charge curve.
>
> I'm not so sure. How much current can they shuttle around?
>
> My understanding is that the Powercheqs don't move much current at
> all,so they may not be able to shuttle current quickly enough to
> keep module
> voltages in line.
>
> On the other hand, they run 24/7, and it may be that if they have the
> batteries well-balanced to start with, then the module voltages will
> remain well-behaved during absorption... you will have to get out the
> DMM and check module voltages while waiting for the current to
> taper in
> order to determine what the situation really is.
>
> > I have 2" high density polystyrene foam in the walls and
> > floor of the box (R5 per inch).
>
> OK; that's the difference; mine are essentially uninsulated.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> I've seen how IGBTs are used in controllers for high power switching,
> but do they have any other use in an EV? Would they work well as a
> relay to connect/disconnect things from the DC pack?
IGBTs have about a 2-3 volt drop when they are on; thus they get hot and
waste power; but they can switch thousands of times per second. They
only carry current in one direction. They can easily be damaged by
static electricity, or excessive voltage or current. Their gate is not
isolated. They make sense where speed is required; otherwise relays,
contactors, or switches are a better choice.
Switch and relay contacs have far less voltage drop, and so run much
cooler. They make sense where you only occasionally switch things on or
off. They carry current in either direction, are not bothered by static
electricity, and generally survive severe overloads with only minor
damage or wear. The coil is normally isolated from the switched
circuits.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> The Powercheq's spec 2A shuttling capacity. They're all
> pretty well balanced right now so running an extended
> acceptance charge shouldn't hurt any of them.
I highly recommend that you check module voltages periodically during
the acceptance charge to verify that they remain safe. What you see
when the batteries are sitting idle has little bearing on what the
voltages do then you charge or discharge them.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I awoke this morning and went downstairs to the carport to unplug
the 96V "Yellow Banana", and found the Zivan K2 (IUI with thermal
probe attached to the side of the rear pack case) still in bulk
charge mode, after being plugged in at about midnight. Highly
unusual, since the approx. 13-mile drive to work, the grocery
store, and back up my hill would probably only take about 4 hours
of bulk charging at 10-11A, and then go into the K2's 3-hour
constant-current finish charge, with the charger shutting off at
about 6 or 7AM. With the Tenma clip-on ammeter indicating the
charger still going at about 10.2A, the voltmeter saying the pack
was at ~120V, the front pack stem thermometer at 115-120 degF,
all indications were that the pack never reached its
constant-voltage set-point of about 123V (at 77degF for 16 6V
US125) and went into thermal run-away. Well, one runaway of this
magnitude will probably have not killed the pack, but it really
points out the necessity of having a fail-safe mode of shutdown.
Bruce Parmenter posted about his experience with this some time
ago, but I was not able to find the post in my EVDL archives that
go back through mid-2004, and I've kinda given up on searching
the internet EVDL archives, since they are scattered hither and
yon (or so it is my impression). At any rate, I will plug the
pack in when I get back home after work this evening, where it
will be able to go a couple of hours before I unplug it and go to
bed. Tomorrow morning, I'll plug it back in and I should be able
to find a new constant-voltage set-point with a sufficiently
cooled-down pack. It is strange: the pack has only 4K miles on
it and is about a 1-1/4 years old, and outside it has not been
very hot of late. I wonder a lot if this 5.5A 3-hour finish
charge has been prematurely aging the pack, since my standing
voltages have slowly been sinking, now down to about 6.3V
(standard voltage for a 100%-charged 6V'er, but most "newer"
batteries have significantly higher voltages, say 6.4-6.5V). I'm
about ready to run a full 75A load test on this pack (hopefully
this Sat). After that I was going to post my monthly hydrometer
readings and the load test to a website, and maybe then Nawaz,
Roger, or Lee could make some comments.
At any rate, back to the shutdown. I have eyed timers in the
hardware store down through the years. Most of those are big
clunky timers for sprinklers and such, and would not be suitable
for mounting permanently in a car, and I only have a carport
under the building at my apartment (so I cannot have a timer
there). I have thought some about using a digital timer like I
have on my fridge (to turn it off during peak utility hours in
the afternoon on my TOU rate). However, all those I have seen
are 15A max, but I could drive a relay with it that itself would
take the charger's AC load (usually 16-17A RMS, but could be
upwards of 20-25A if I turn the charger up (rarely)). An
elapsed-time timer would be better. Any suggestions for a
120V/120V AC relay that could be set up nice in a project box,
which I could then mount near the charger?
Another advantage to a relay is that I could also wire in a smoke
detector. I had purchased a standard household smoke detector to
play with, but as usual it ended up on the project shelf for more
pressing matters. I was planning on snipping the speakers wires,
and using a latching relay to open up the AC line if smoke was
detected. So I would have to find a relay that can be driven by
a smoke detector's speaker circuitry. And the other issue that
comes to mind is whether I would get a false positive from
gassing batteries during the finish charge? I doubt that nearby
gas-car exhaust (another thing that can set off smoke detectors
in garages) would be an issue inside the Rabbit. Any
suggestions? Never had a smoke event (except one time at the
very beginning of my EV career when I zorched a cord connector on
the K&W), but there's always a first time.
Thanks in advance,
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How is that better? Toyota Echo gets 40+ mpg... Or Geo Metro...50
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: SMARTcar on eBay
It sounds like Zap (or one of their dealers) is clearing out cars again.
They did this with the original few they imported. From the couple folks
I've talked w/ that bought... 40MPG is actual mileage, in town or out.
(Higher with the diesel engine.) That's, at least, better than the 30MPG
for the best cars currently selling in the US, IMHO.
It's rated to get only 40mpg from a 700cc engine? Doesn't sound very
aerodynamic:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160024644297
Needs that ICE crap yanked out and a little EV-ing instead!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 8/31/06 12:37:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: Re: Hot New RC Battery
Date: 8/31/06 12:37:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gordon Niessen)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
The A123 are available now for RC from A123Racing.com. They have a
6.6V 4600mAh pack with a voltage booster to give a constant 7.2 or
8.4 volts. They claim 30C continuous and 60C burst. That is a 138
amps continuous and 276 Amps burst. A few of those could really move
a scooter. And at $99 each that is very close to the $80 a pack for
the IB4200s. I can see why they are using them in Bill's drag
bike. I would love to see what Dennis would do with a pack in the CE. >>
***Low 8s,Hi 7s without motor damage.......My time Will come again. Dennis
Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> btw, what is the difference between a "contactor", "solenoid", and a
> "relay"?
There is a lot of overlap due to casual use of the words, but here's my
understanding of the terms.
Both relays and contactors are remote-controlled switches. The switching
function can be as simple or as complicated as you like. The device that
operates the switch(es) is usually an electromagnet.
The name "relay" is normally used for small, low-power devices. A
"contactor" is exactly the same device, but built to switch significant
amounts of power. There is no clear dividing line between the two.
In general, relays usually have a fixed contact and a flexible, movable
contact. When the electromagnet is powered, it pulls the flexible
contact so it touches the fixed contact.
Contactors in general have two fixed contacts, and a loose movable arm.
The electromagnet moves this loose bridge so it shorts the two fixed
contacts together. This puts two contacts in series to increase the
off-staet air gap (raises the switched voltage rating), and eliminates
the flexible connection (to raise the current rating).
A "solenoid" is just one of many forms of electromagnets. It converts
electrical energy into mechanical energy. A typical solenoid is a round
coil with a hole in the center. A sliding iron plunger is pulled into
this hold when the coil is powered, and released when the coil is
de-energized.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use a mechanical 24h timer that comes on when it's cheap
rate, between midnight and 7 AM.
These "little grey box"es are sold as water-heater timer
or pool timer or for many other applications.
I got a few for free via re-cycling Sunnyvale Yahoo group.
I saw at least one for $11 on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260025794351QQcmdZViewItem
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Timer for charging
I use an Intermatic digital count down timer, but if I had it to do all over
again I would use a mechanical one instead. I find the digital one too much
trouble to change the time on and it relies on a battery. If the battery
goes dead the solenoid does not open and it becomes a non-timer :-(
damon
>From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Timer for charging
>Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:08:56 -0400
>
>So after playing with the BB600's for awhile what I really think I need is
>a 120 volt AC timer to control the charging.
>
>The Dolphin charges at about 2.2ah and I can set the amount of time by
>looking at the state of the E-meter. The question is who makes a good hour
>clock charger that can turn on and off 15-20a @120 volts?
>
>Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll take the first part and say that 200-250
watt-hours/mi. is REALLY driving with a light foot for
an econo-box. 250-300 more average, or light-footed
for a truck from my experience and the posts I've
read.
--- Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Greetings EV'ers!
>
> So we've been happily driving our EV around Seattle
> for the last couple
> of months (120V 1991 Geo Metro), and are trying to
> determine - without
> damaging the batteries - our effective range.
>
> According to the source of the 10 12V AGM's powering
> her, we have a 90
> AmpHr pack. Here's the data from the top of the
> batteries themselves:
> C&D Technologies Dynasty UPS "High Rate Series"
> (UPS12-475FR)
> 12V, 134.8 AH, 475 WPC, IEC Rating 120.3, 110 inlbs,
> 12.4NM, Float
> Charge Voltage: 13.5-13.8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] degrees
>
> We've been logging our trips with beginning/ending:
> - Mileage
> - Voltage
> - AmpHrs
> - WattHrs
>
> According to our logged data, over our daily
> drivings we've been
> averaging about 250 WattHrs/mile and/or a smidge
> over 2 AmpHrs/mile
> (does this sound about right?).
>
> Can we guesstimate our range to 80% DoD as simply
> as:
> (90 AmpHrs/ 2 AmpHrs/Mile) * .8 = 36 miles?
>
> So far, the most miles we've had occasion to travel
> on a charge has been
> in the low 20's, at roughly 2 AmpHrs/mile. Again,
> this is in Seattle,
> where there are plenty of hills. We do try to
> minimize them by route
> choice and have so far avoided the worst of them
> (read, the downtown
> hillclimbs that nearly require pitons or Queen
> Anne), but with a running
> start at least, have not had many problems. I think
> we've briefly pulled
> about 300 amps or so, going up the steepest ones
> we've tried in second gear.
>
> We've only been on the freeway once or twice (with
> acceptable behavior),
> so almost all of this has been in-city driving.
>
> So what do you think? Should we expect a 80% DoD
> range in the mid 30
> miles? What's the best way to measure this, without
> harming the pack?
> And what would be reasonable to extrapolate between
> in-city and highway
> miles? Example: we can drive to Issaquah from North
> Seattle on the
> interstate or via (albeit much longer time-wise)
> surface streets. I'm
> guessing the surface streets would use less juice,
> but what do I know?
>
> Thanks for any advice or comments!
> - Patrick & Chris
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I set my truck up in software so it shuts the charger off at 351v for
228 cells. So I can't over charge it. The acoff and vchrgmax constants
are set to 760.
Both of your constants should be set to about 817 for 252 cells.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So after playing with the BB600's for awhile what I really think I need
> is a 120 volt AC timer to control the charging.
>
> The Dolphin charges at about 2.2ah and I can set the amount of time by
> looking at the state of the E-meter. The question is who makes a good
> hour clock charger that can turn on and off 15-20a @120 volts?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm planning for my conversion to be a 144V (12 cell) 1000A system.
Although in all reality I'll probably never actually draw 1000A, I want to
make sure that the system is over designed enough so that nothing melts,
sparks, smoke, or catches fire under load. So, I've got some "practical"
questions. Here goes:
Contactor. The Albright SW200 is rated 400A continuous. Do I need 2 of
these in parallel for a 1000A setup? For safety? Anyone know their peak
rating? How long can they sustain this peak?
Anderson Connectors. Again, rated at 350A continuous. Will they melt at
1000A? Do people recommend a parallel connector setup?
Fuses. I've got one that seems to be just fine for 1000A (Ferraz/Shawmut
A30QS500-4) rated [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Circuit breaker. The Heinemann seems to be rated for 1000A peak, so I
presume I'm safe.
Wire, Terminals & Lugs. I'm planning 2/0 wire. Will this be enough?
ADC 9" motor. I haven't seen good numbers for this guy at 144V. 5sec,
15sec, 1 minute, 1 hour, etc. max amperage numbers would be great. Does
anyone have them? Do people generally have an auxillary blower at higher
volts/amps?
Gauges. Any ammmeter that I get will probably be in the 0-400A range.
Will it smoke if/when I pull 1000A?
Lugs & Terminals? Is there anything special that needs to be done? I'll
probably be running Hawker PC2150's, with their brass terminals.
Is there anything else that needs to be over-designed for a 1000A system?
What kind of fire extinguishers do people carry on board, if any?
Steve
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These are Post's of Post's Sent to me via - the Google News Feed for
Electric Vehicles... They were Both interesting enough to forward to
the LIST here...
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Google Alert - Electric Vehicles
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:38:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Google Alerts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Google Alert for: Electric Vehicles
PML Mini goes from 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds, uses four electric ...
<http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2006/08/31/pml_mini_goes_f.html>
Sci Fi Tech - New York,NY,USA
Engineers are finally figuring out how to boost the performance of
electric vehicles to that of high-end gas-powered cars. First ...
Electric car owners make a statement
<http://www.statesman.com/business/content/shared/money/stories/2006/08/ELECTRIC_CARS_0831_COX.html>
Austin American-Statesman (subscription) - Austin,TX,USA
... He estimated there are about 25 highway-capable electric vehicles on
the roads of South Florida, but said he thinks there would be more if
people knew they had ...
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--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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Oh, look for Intermatic model T104
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ190025017718QQcmdZViewItem
These are single-pole and the clock runs on 110V AC but
you can still switch a 240V AC load by disconnecting the
one leg, while the timer stays on that leg and the neutral
so it gets 110V AC.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:56 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Timer for charging
I use a mechanical 24h timer that comes on when it's cheap
rate, between midnight and 7 AM.
These "little grey box"es are sold as water-heater timer
or pool timer or for many other applications.
I got a few for free via re-cycling Sunnyvale Yahoo group.
I saw at least one for $11 on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260025794351QQcmdZViewItem
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Timer for charging
I use an Intermatic digital count down timer, but if I had it to do all over
again I would use a mechanical one instead. I find the digital one too much
trouble to change the time on and it relies on a battery. If the battery
goes dead the solenoid does not open and it becomes a non-timer :-(
damon
>From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Timer for charging
>Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:08:56 -0400
>
>So after playing with the BB600's for awhile what I really think I need is
>a 120 volt AC timer to control the charging.
>
>The Dolphin charges at about 2.2ah and I can set the amount of time by
>looking at the state of the E-meter. The question is who makes a good hour
>clock charger that can turn on and off 15-20a @120 volts?
>
>Chris
>
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Hi everyone,
What a great weekend. I was soo depressed driving up to Portland,I kept
looking in the rear view mirror, wondering why I was not towing a trailer.I
soon felt better seeing all my great friends and having one of the best
times of my life.
Thanks again for all the support that sent FT and Roy on thier way to the
RPM trade show in Indianapolis. We were able to raise nearly $850, from the
raffels and sale of t-shrits.
The Best news is that NEDRA ALive and Well.I want to thank John Wayland for
being so generous in letting WZ out in the hands of others to see the
uSa.Thank You Madman for the impressive charging job.And Also Roy for
helping to put it all together.
NEDRA still in need of Help on the board . I'm wearing lots hats and feel
like I'm spread very thin.Please contact us if you have any free time to
donate.
Brian D.Hall
,NEDRA President, Nedra Secretary,Nedra Treasurer,Nedra Membership
Director,Nedra Southwest Regional Director, and Mainfuse at Thunder Struck
Motors.
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> How is that better? Toyota Echo gets 40+ mpg... Or Geo Metro...50
>
Yes, that's what I was thinking: considering the weight and frontal
area of this car, it whould be doing much better - swap the whole
hybrid drivetrain out of an Insight for that 700cc engine and the
Honda will get much more than 40mpg (even if it will be a slug off the
line).
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Well, this sucks.
I got a "new" pack from Paul last weekend (thanks again, Paul!) and learned
about an important difference between standard Optima YTs and the ones with
side posts:
The ones with side posts cannot be put as close together, relative to the
posts. Which means I have one cable literally a half-inch too short.
I know I have no idea on how one should build a battery cable. Were I building
25 or so, I would learn and invest in the proper tools. Can I impose on
someone in ListLand and the Seattle/Puget Sound area to build a proper jumper
cable? I'm happy to pay for the service.
Too short in Seattle,
Jim Dempsey
__________________________________________________
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Hey Brian
It was really good to meet you last weekend being we'd actually dealt with
each other a few years back when I was working for another shop. Nothing
special, Just a basic build as the owner wasn't into it (what a dork, hehe) He
was the same way toward John when he and I first met. I remember you asking me
about banding the comms of which I hadn't a clue about back then , just fun to
reminess.
I felt this was a good thread to add some perspective and throw out some
suggestions. First off, I found myself with my pants down when I was thrust
into managing the raffle for the motor. I did the best I could by stealing a
jar from Waylands and making up hand written signs (if you can call them that,
hehe). All and all the motor ticket sales were pretty good for my lame ass
excuse for a setup 8^P
When you brought out the bike for raffle on Saturday and I'm writting out
another hand written sign I just felt that it was a shame to have not thought
about displaying these items better and more viewable beforehand.
I believe that with a little more pre-thought and planning NEDRA could have
achieved a better kitty. I won the bike so I'm not sniveling here, but I
believe the amount generated wasn't even close to the value of the items really
(in fact I know it) and for that I feel like a greedy slut 8^( Also had you'd
been there on Friday it would have done much better, as I at least had two days
with the motor. Anyway I won't be caught like that again 8^ ) I'll print and
laminate something up for next time I donate a motor so that NEDRA and it's
events can successfully continue this type of fund raiser.
Anyway I'm one who likes to keep the score level and right now every time I
look at my new spiffy E bike I feel like Chester the NEDRA molestor, LMAO!
(Best 20.00 bucks I EVer spent, hehe.) So short story long is I'm a big NEDRA
fan (if you can't tell) I'll get my membership in finally (God don't I suck!)
and lets find out how I can help.
Please contact me off list when you get a minute, better make that 45, or so
I'm told, LMAO.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
PS: I don't have a lot of time on the bike yet as my wife insists on a
helmit and bike lock before ventures begin 8^( I've learned though, happy
wife, happy life.
"Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
What a great weekend. I was soo depressed driving up to Portland,I kept
looking in the rear view mirror, wondering why I was not towing a trailer.I
soon felt better seeing all my great friends and having one of the best
times of my life.
Thanks again for all the support that sent FT and Roy on thier way to the
RPM trade show in Indianapolis. We were able to raise nearly $850, from the
raffels and sale of t-shrits.
The Best news is that NEDRA ALive and Well.I want to thank John Wayland for
being so generous in letting WZ out in the hands of others to see the
uSa.Thank You Madman for the impressive charging job.And Also Roy for
helping to put it all together.
NEDRA still in need of Help on the board . I'm wearing lots hats and feel
like I'm spread very thin.Please contact us if you have any free time to
donate.
Brian D.Hall
,NEDRA President, Nedra Secretary,Nedra Treasurer,Nedra Membership
Director,Nedra Southwest Regional Director, and Mainfuse at Thunder Struck
Motors.
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
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For the A123 Battery, using the introductory price of their Hypersonic4600
6.6V:
987 units required, 306kg, About $100,000
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: August 31, 2006 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hot New RC Battery
For an EV sized pack (100Ah 312V) with these SMC cells, it would take nearly
6000 cells, weigh just over 400kg and cost roughly $53,000
For Kokam: it would take 84 cells, weigh 232kg and cost about $30,000
The Milwaukee V30 cordless battery: 368 units, 382kg and $50,000 (has a BMS
though)
For Thundersky: 84 cells, 253kg and $14,000 (although these are not proving
up to their capacity)
Of course there is more to consider - the amount of power that can be
delivered, ordering in bulk quantities, battery management systems, assembly
effort, etc.
Also, does anyone have pricing on the A123 batteries...
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: August 31, 2006 12:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hot New RC Battery
The newest hot one seems to be the IB4200. It is a Nimh C cell, only
68 grams. It can belt out 35 amps, and still be at the nominal 1.2 Volts! It
has about 1/2 the internal resistance of the next best cell (that I know
about, anyway). Some guys on the web claim they can pull 200 Amps from these
things! I saw a chart claiming you could pull 70 Amps for 2 minutes!
I got these specs from several web sites, nothing personally verified. If
you can believe the specs, they are not too far behind
A123 Lithium batteries. Costs I saw were about $9 / cell.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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What size (and color) wire do you want, and what type and size lugs?
I have a little bit of 2/0 Red and Black left over and some lugs for 3/8"
studs. I can get whatever terminals you want though,
just down the street.
I have the good Thomas & Betts crimpers borrowed from my office still, I could
probably pop one out for you. It would take a
couple days in transit if I send it US Postal Service Priority Mail.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Dempsey
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:57 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Battery cable needed
>
>
> Well, this sucks.
>
> I got a "new" pack from Paul last weekend (thanks again, Paul!) and learned
> about an important difference between
> standard Optima YTs and the ones with side posts:
>
> The ones with side posts cannot be put as close together, relative to the
> posts. Which means I have one cable
> literally a half-inch too short.
>
> I know I have no idea on how one should build a battery cable. Were I
> building 25 or so, I would learn and invest in
> the proper tools. Can I impose on someone in ListLand and the Seattle/Puget
> Sound area to build a proper jumper cable?
> I'm happy to pay for the service.
>
> Too short in Seattle,
>
> Jim Dempsey
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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I would like to monitor my 13 12vdc batteries while I am driving. I have
the connections to use but need something to display the voltage of each
battery. I really don't want to spend a lot of time to put it together so I
am looking for a simple solution that doesn't cost too much. I am more
interested in seeing if there is a major difference between the batteries
than accuracy. Any ideas?
- Will
Aptos, CA 95003
(831) 688-8669
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Hey All
I was plugging along on a Wayland forklift motor this morning (the guys a
motor leech what can I do, lmao) when Dan Morton (AKA aiprplane man) came in
with this big shit eating grin on his face like he'd just won the lotto or
something. I said whats up? He says, I was tired of looking at your fat EV
grin all the time so I hot wired the go cart and just did some laps, where he
smiled all pround and gleeming with electric powerhood! I popped my hand out
shook his and said congrats,and went out to see, pretty fun stuff.
Like I've said Dans got the bug bad now. I'd given him a small motor off the
pile awhile back, and well he spent the morning mounting it all up. Funniest
thing to watch him with just one battery in a plastic tote clipping it on to
start drive aroung the parking lot. Slower than hell, uglier than sin (right
now), but proof in concept and good enough to produce his first EV grin ( hell
he looked like he just rode in WZ, hehe). He's going to run it at a road
course they have at the expo center once a month or so. Anyway another EV grin
was born today and I wanted to share it with you all 8^)
Hope you enjoyed
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
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