EV Digest 5818
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Karman Ghia vs Baha Bug vs Thing vs Kit Bug
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Battery voltage monitor
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Battery voltage monitor
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Hot (stinky) batteries for breakfast
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Battery Cable needed
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Ryan's new EV grin ... upside-down
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Battery Cable needed
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery Cable needed
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Differences between Siemens and MES/DEA systems
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery voltage monitor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) AC/DC 1000-2000 Amp Meter
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Battery voltage monitor
by "Will Beckett \(becketts\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Anyone consider converting a Pinto
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: 192v charging question (9A31 Dekka Intimidators)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Hot New RC Battery
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Hot New RC Battery
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Hot New RC Battery
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Hot New RC Battery
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Anyone consider converting a Pinto
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) re: Smart Car on Ebay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) RPM Trade Show - What are these things?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: AC/DC 1000-2000 Amp Meter
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Battery Cable needed
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: RPM Trade Show - What are these things?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
The Ghia is the heaviest, I think it weighs in at 2625 GVW or
there-abouts. If you like the body style I would use as much fiberglass
as possible but remember the pan is flimsy without the body. I did a ghia
in '96 and sunk two battery boxes where the back seat and foot-wells use
to be. That was 6+6 or 12 batteries there and then I put 6 more under a
glass front clip (all Trojan T125s). See: https://www.dm3electrics.com/
You can always shoehorn more under the rear bonnet.
The lightest set up would be a tube frame (sandrail style) and skin it or
lay a fiberglass body over it. If you buy an off the shelf tube frame you
stilll may need to beef it up slightly.
See: https://www.dm3electrics.com/
If you are interested in adapter plates and couplers let me know.
Jimmy
> > Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Karman Ghia vs Baha Bug vs Thing vs Kit Bug
> To: [email protected]
>
> Hi,
>
> I was curious on which vehicle weight came out the lightest for a
> conversion. It looks like parts are still available for the Karman Ghia
> & noticed that one was recently converted. Does anyone know the start
> weight of a Ghia vs a Thing or a kit Bug? Or can recommend an easy kit
> bolt on? It looks like 14 batteries would fit in a VW Thing but appears
> difficult in a Ghia.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about JB's battery monitor?
Anyone use one yet?
http://www.jstraubel.com/BatteryMonitor/monitor.htm
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Will Beckett (becketts)
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:58 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Battery voltage monitor
>
>
> I would like to monitor my 13 12vdc batteries while I am driving. I have
> the connections to use but need something to display the voltage of each
> battery. I really don't want to spend a lot of time to put it together so I
> am looking for a simple solution that doesn't cost too much. I am more
> interested in seeing if there is a major difference between the batteries
> than accuracy. Any ideas?
>
>
> - Will
> Aptos, CA 95003
> (831) 688-8669
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will Beckett wrote:
> I would like to monitor my 13 12vdc batteries while I am
> driving. I have the connections to use but need something
> to display the voltage of each battery. I really don't
> want to spend a lot of time to put it together so I am
> looking for a simple solution that doesn't cost too much.
> I am more interested in seeing if there is a major
> difference between the batteries than accuracy. Any ideas?
Do you have a DMM?
If so, you could pick up a bunch of PhotoMOS "relays" (really FET output
optocouplers) from this place:
<http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G14592>
You need to wire the two FETs in series, so need to use 2 optos per
battery, one to connect the negative battery post to the negative DMM
probe, the other for the positive side.
Pick up a couple CMOS logic chips, such as a counter and perhaps a
demultiplexer (or two, as required) and you can then use a simple push
button to increment the counter and sequentially connect one battery at
a time to the DMM. Add a 555 timer or similar to generate the "advance"
pulse automatically, and you have an automatic battery scanner. You
can't scan all that fast with a DMM as it takes a second or two for the
reading to settle, but you might still want to include a switch etc. to
disable the advance pulse so you can leave the monitor on the weakling
once you find it, etc.
If you already have a DMM, the total cost should be on the order of $20
to assemble something like this.
I have built such a scanner with exactly these parts, but use a Qbasic
program on a PC to select the battery to monitor, and to read the
measured voltage from the RS232 DMM (as well as pack votlage & current,
etc.) from the E-Meter).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wire the timer in the middle of cord you charger the vehicle with.
It is not permanently wired to the car or the carport and is always ready
for use.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:52 PM
To: EVDL post
Subject: Hot (stinky) batteries for breakfast
I awoke this morning and went downstairs to the carport to unplug
the 96V "Yellow Banana", and found the Zivan K2 (IUI with thermal
probe attached to the side of the rear pack case) still in bulk
charge mode, after being plugged in at about midnight. Highly
unusual, since the approx. 13-mile drive to work, the grocery
store, and back up my hill would probably only take about 4 hours
of bulk charging at 10-11A, and then go into the K2's 3-hour
constant-current finish charge, with the charger shutting off at
about 6 or 7AM. With the Tenma clip-on ammeter indicating the
charger still going at about 10.2A, the voltmeter saying the pack
was at ~120V, the front pack stem thermometer at 115-120 degF,
all indications were that the pack never reached its
constant-voltage set-point of about 123V (at 77degF for 16 6V
US125) and went into thermal run-away. Well, one runaway of this
magnitude will probably have not killed the pack, but it really
points out the necessity of having a fail-safe mode of shutdown.
Bruce Parmenter posted about his experience with this some time
ago, but I was not able to find the post in my EVDL archives that
go back through mid-2004, and I've kinda given up on searching
the internet EVDL archives, since they are scattered hither and
yon (or so it is my impression). At any rate, I will plug the
pack in when I get back home after work this evening, where it
will be able to go a couple of hours before I unplug it and go to
bed. Tomorrow morning, I'll plug it back in and I should be able
to find a new constant-voltage set-point with a sufficiently
cooled-down pack. It is strange: the pack has only 4K miles on
it and is about a 1-1/4 years old, and outside it has not been
very hot of late. I wonder a lot if this 5.5A 3-hour finish
charge has been prematurely aging the pack, since my standing
voltages have slowly been sinking, now down to about 6.3V
(standard voltage for a 100%-charged 6V'er, but most "newer"
batteries have significantly higher voltages, say 6.4-6.5V). I'm
about ready to run a full 75A load test on this pack (hopefully
this Sat). After that I was going to post my monthly hydrometer
readings and the load test to a website, and maybe then Nawaz,
Roger, or Lee could make some comments.
At any rate, back to the shutdown. I have eyed timers in the
hardware store down through the years. Most of those are big
clunky timers for sprinklers and such, and would not be suitable
for mounting permanently in a car, and I only have a carport
under the building at my apartment (so I cannot have a timer
there). I have thought some about using a digital timer like I
have on my fridge (to turn it off during peak utility hours in
the afternoon on my TOU rate). However, all those I have seen
are 15A max, but I could drive a relay with it that itself would
take the charger's AC load (usually 16-17A RMS, but could be
upwards of 20-25A if I turn the charger up (rarely)). An
elapsed-time timer would be better. Any suggestions for a
120V/120V AC relay that could be set up nice in a project box,
which I could then mount near the charger?
Another advantage to a relay is that I could also wire in a smoke
detector. I had purchased a standard household smoke detector to
play with, but as usual it ended up on the project shelf for more
pressing matters. I was planning on snipping the speakers wires,
and using a latching relay to open up the AC line if smoke was
detected. So I would have to find a relay that can be driven by
a smoke detector's speaker circuitry. And the other issue that
comes to mind is whether I would get a false positive from
gassing batteries during the finish charge? I doubt that nearby
gas-car exhaust (another thing that can set off smoke detectors
in garages) would be an issue inside the Rabbit. Any
suggestions? Never had a smoke event (except one time at the
very beginning of my EV career when I zorched a cord connector on
the K&W), but there's always a first time.
Thanks in advance,
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got the stuff but I am down here in non-EV land, Fresno California.
I found the proper connectors at a connector house and a battery
supplier. While you might get a hammer crimper from a golf cart shop,
Even the battery supplier that had the fittings sold what looked like an
over sized bolt cutter.
Here Are the options.
Get a hammer crimper
Look thru the archives on the how to make you own crimper (welding a
socket, split in half into a bolt cutter)
Look on ebay for tools $$$
Buy a made to length battery cable from one of the solar or RV guys like
http://www.custombatterycables.com/product_info.htm
Tell me what you need and we will just have to use UPS.
The guys that sell the battery connectors also sell glue lined heat
shrink, very cool!
I was happy that I bought the crimper as I reworked a lot lately, I even
have some cables lying around that are already made (2/0)
PS The connectors for the positive and for the negative posts are
actually different.
But man, seattle is a lot closer to EV territory, maybe someone else can
chime in.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
Jim, it was nice to hear of others having an EV Grin day. My EV Grin
went upside-down for a little while today. Here's the story - and it
re-drives a point home to all of us to be careful where we plug in.
Without all the gory details, I've been plugging in at a certain
location with permission. Recently, I had to park a little ways from
the original location. I made the incorrect assumption that the
electricity from the outlets at the new location were payed for by the
same organization from which I had permission. I was wrong, and just
about got impounded. Fortunately, someone that knew me caught wind of
it all before the EV got towed off.
So a word to the wise - make *sure* you have permission before plugging
in. It's also a good idea to make sure the spot you're parking in
doesn't cause problems either.
-Ryan
Oh, BTW, I did put about 25 miles on the EV today - my grin was present
then :)
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Summer Special - Free or reduced shipping on all orders over $500!
Includes Zillas, WarP and Impulse Motors, and PFC Chargers
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A welding supply store should be able and willing to supply the
cable and terminals you need and crimp the terminals on the cable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think it was <http://www.evsource.com/> that would "sell" and UPS
you a crimper and then return some of your money when you sent them
back.
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I got the stuff but I am down here in non-EV land, Fresno
> California.
>
> I found the proper connectors at a connector house and a
> battery
> supplier. While you might get a hammer crimper from a golf cart
> shop,
> Even the battery supplier that had the fittings sold what looked
> like an over sized bolt cutter.
>
> Here Are the options.
> Get a hammer crimper
> Look thru the archives on the how to make you own crimper
> (welding a
> socket, split in half into a bolt cutter)
> Look on ebay for tools $$$
> Buy a made to length battery cable from one of the solar or RV
> guys like
> http://www.custombatterycables.com/product_info.htm
>
> Tell me what you need and we will just have to use UPS.
>
> The guys that sell the battery connectors also sell glue lined heat
> shrink, very cool!
>
> I was happy that I bought the crimper as I reworked a lot lately, I
> even
> have some cables lying around that are already made (2/0)
>
> PS The connectors for the positive and for the negative posts are
> actually different.
>
> But man, seattle is a lot closer to EV territory, maybe someone
> else can chime in.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor, since all e-mail that I send you seems to get lost before it
reaches you, could you outline the differences between the Siemens and
MES/DEA systems that you sell for the whole list? I can download the
Siemens manual (or at least your translation) from your web site. But
getting information on the MES/DEA systems is much more problematic.
Is there feature parity?
Is the regenerative braking on the MES/DEA system just as flexible as
that on the Siemens one?
Exactly how long has MES/DEA been in business and what's their warrantee
like?
What sorts of vehicles typically use the MES/DEA systems?
What exactly is configurable with the serial and CAN interfaces to the
MES/DEA inverter?
In short, why would somebody pay close to twice as much for a Siemens
system? Is it just that it's a known quantity?
Thanks in advance,
Jake Oshins
P.S. To all of you who might be tempted to point out that a simple DC,
series-wound system is cheaper and that if I'm interested in gear that's
cheaper than Siemens then I should look at those: I know that. I'm
looking at doing a conversion that will have a pretty strong upper bound
on the amount of lead that I can cram into it. So I can't just put in
10% or 20% more lead and get the same range for less money. I can,
however, get the voltage up high enough to put myself into the range
that these AC systems are efficient in.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will Beckett (becketts) wrote:
> I would like to monitor my 13 12vdc batteries while I am driving.
> I have the connections to use but need something to display the
> voltage of each battery... looking for a simple solution that
> doesn't cost too much. I am more interested in seeing if there is
> a major difference between the batteries than accuracy. Any ideas?
This subject has been cussed and discussed many times. There are as many
solutions as there are individuals.
To me, the simplest solution is a single LED per battery. Put a resistor
and zener in series, so it barely lights at 10.5v and is fully lit at
15v. You can't measure actual voltage this way, but the human eye is
extremely good at spotting brightness *differences*.
If you want something a bit more sophisticated, use thirteen edgewise
voltmeters, mounted side-by-side. Again, a series resistor and zener
makes them expanded-scale voltmeters, reading from (say) 10-15v.
Beyond that, you can have 13 circuits that measure the voltages and
display them in some fashion (bargraphs, 7-segment displays, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need to buy a clamp-on Amp meter, I prefer one that can handle 2000A,
both AC and DC.
Prefer it not to cost a lot of course, but I don't want any junk either.
Anyone have suggestions?
thanks,
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw JB last weekend with the Tesla here at the Central Coast Chapter. I
will send him and email and see if he has one of these available for me to
use. Thanks for the suggestion.
- Will
Aptos, CA 95003
(831) 688-8669
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Willmon
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 7:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Battery voltage monitor
How about JB's battery monitor?
Anyone use one yet?
http://www.jstraubel.com/BatteryMonitor/monitor.htm
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Will Beckett (becketts)
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:58 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Battery voltage monitor
>
>
> I would like to monitor my 13 12vdc batteries while I am driving. I
> have the connections to use but need something to display the voltage
> of each battery. I really don't want to spend a lot of time to put it
> together so I am looking for a simple solution that doesn't cost too
> much. I am more interested in seeing if there is a major difference
> between the batteries than accuracy. Any ideas?
>
>
> - Will
> Aptos, CA 95003
> (831) 688-8669
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 8/31/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Found a 1980 Pinto in town with a perfect body and blown engine for $100. Curb
weight 2556# minus the typical stuff of 712# equals
an 1844# glider. Its probably got the 6-3/4" rear end so I could probably
easily swap it for an 8". If I look at pictures right
there should be lots of battery room under the back seat and in place of that
explosive gas tank behind the axle. Anyone got any
comments on the Pinto as a conversion? Do they handle OK, is the steering
dependable (aren't they rack & pinion)? I never drove
one. Any chance of fitting dual motors under the hood with direct drive to the
rear-end?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So today I ran my minimal 15 mile RT commute to work and home only.
Got home with the batteries at 198V = 12.375Vpb ~76% S.O.C on the resting
voltage scale. I then installed my 100A=50mV shunt in
the charging path and fired up the PFC20. I found out that I've been putting
exactly 10 A into the batteries during bulk charge
which is approximately 16.6A from the line. Ive found if I bump it up much
higher the 20A breaker in the panel starts getting hot
and pops when the voltage on the batteries nears 220V. At 10 A it took just
over 2.5 hours to reach regulation of 230.4V =
14.40Vpb. None of the Powercheqs were firing at that point so I know all the
batteries were within 75mV of each other. I left my
acceptance charge timer set to 1 hour and watched the current drop. At the end
of the hour it was at 2.0A and still no Powercheqs
firing. All the blocks were within 20mV of each right after charge. I'll check
them again in the morning after they've had a
chance to rest. So for tomorrow I'll run the timer out to continuous and watch
until the current drops no less than .1A within an
hour period. If I can get motivated enough I'll throw together the Campbell
Scientific data logger and get a plot of voltage
current and temp. Oh yeah the temp started at 81*F and at regulation was 82*F.
Then at the end of the 1 hour acceptance charge
they were 86*F (on average). [I notice I usually get about a 3*F rise after
driving my 7.5 mile 1 way trip to or from work.] So I
most likely have been slightly undercharging the pack. Since I don't know the
exact currents and times during the 1st months
charging I can only assume it was charging the batteries closer to full than I
have the last month. Otherwise my 28 mile trip to
dead batteries the other day wouldn't have happened as I should have at least
got 35 miles and still been at ~48% DOD. Once I'm
sure I'm topping them off all the way I may attempt my 40 mile to 50% DOD test
of my gustimated range. If this is the case I
should be able to get two days on a charge.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> Roger Stockton wrote:
>
> I highly recommend that you check module voltages periodically during
> the acceptance charge to verify that they remain safe. What you see
> when the batteries are sitting idle has little bearing on what the
> voltages do then you charge or discharge them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
bruce parmenter wrote:
Steven, perhaps you can sweet-talk an EV List'r that has space and
bandwith on their web site so a higher resolution video could be
seen. A high res version of this video would help me promote NEDRA
EVents better.
I've got some remaining bandwidth. And I'd love to host it.
Jude
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A123 batteries are much cheaper when bought in DeWalt packs, around
~$100 for 10 cells, 6,5WH each.
Data from here:
http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/index.htm
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559827
Prices from ebay.
Still "tad bit" expensive for four-wheeled EV sized pack
/kert
On 9/1/06, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For the A123 Battery, using the introductory price of their Hypersonic4600
6.6V:
987 units required, 306kg, About $100,000
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: August 31, 2006 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hot New RC Battery
For an EV sized pack (100Ah 312V) with these SMC cells, it would take nearly
6000 cells, weigh just over 400kg and cost roughly $53,000
For Kokam: it would take 84 cells, weigh 232kg and cost about $30,000
The Milwaukee V30 cordless battery: 368 units, 382kg and $50,000 (has a BMS
though)
For Thundersky: 84 cells, 253kg and $14,000 (although these are not proving
up to their capacity)
Of course there is more to consider - the amount of power that can be
delivered, ordering in bulk quantities, battery management systems, assembly
effort, etc.
Also, does anyone have pricing on the A123 batteries...
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: August 31, 2006 12:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hot New RC Battery
The newest hot one seems to be the IB4200. It is a Nimh C cell, only
68 grams. It can belt out 35 amps, and still be at the nominal 1.2 Volts! It
has about 1/2 the internal resistance of the next best cell (that I know
about, anyway). Some guys on the web claim they can pull 200 Amps from these
things! I saw a chart claiming you could pull 70 Amps for 2 minutes!
I got these specs from several web sites, nothing personally verified. If
you can believe the specs, they are not too far behind
A123 Lithium batteries. Costs I saw were about $9 / cell.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don,
The Milwaukee V28 can be done a bit cheaper by street prices, $33,000 rather
than the $50,000 and they are lighter without the case - 257kg in the case
you mention.
Currently testing these cells in a Goped scooter before I make the leap next
year to put them in a car.
http://www.ev.com.au/IMG_1778.jpg
Bit messy but the batteries live up to the claims.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Friday, 1 September 2006 11:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hot New RC Battery
For the A123 Battery, using the introductory price of their Hypersonic4600
6.6V:
987 units required, 306kg, About $100,000
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: August 31, 2006 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hot New RC Battery
For an EV sized pack (100Ah 312V) with these SMC cells, it would take nearly
6000 cells, weigh just over 400kg and cost roughly $53,000
For Kokam: it would take 84 cells, weigh 232kg and cost about $30,000
The Milwaukee V30 cordless battery: 368 units, 382kg and $50,000 (has a BMS
though)
For Thundersky: 84 cells, 253kg and $14,000 (although these are not proving
up to their capacity)
Of course there is more to consider - the amount of power that can be
delivered, ordering in bulk quantities, battery management systems, assembly
effort, etc.
Also, does anyone have pricing on the A123 batteries...
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: August 31, 2006 12:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hot New RC Battery
The newest hot one seems to be the IB4200. It is a Nimh C cell, only
68 grams. It can belt out 35 amps, and still be at the nominal 1.2 Volts! It
has about 1/2 the internal resistance of the next best cell (that I know
about, anyway). Some guys on the web claim they can pull 200 Amps from these
things! I saw a chart claiming you could pull 70 Amps for 2 minutes!
I got these specs from several web sites, nothing personally verified. If
you can believe the specs, they are not too far behind
A123 Lithium batteries. Costs I saw were about $9 / cell.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone on RC forums claimed that these in Milwaukee V28 are the same
Saphion cells that are sold at http://www.power-motion.com/ for
example, is that true ?
-kert
On 9/1/06, David Ankers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Don,
The Milwaukee V28 can be done a bit cheaper by street prices, $33,000 rather
than the $50,000 and they are lighter without the case - 257kg in the case
you mention.
Currently testing these cells in a Goped scooter before I make the leap next
year to put them in a car.
http://www.ev.com.au/IMG_1778.jpg
Bit messy but the batteries live up to the claims.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Friday, 1 September 2006 11:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hot New RC Battery
For the A123 Battery, using the introductory price of their Hypersonic4600
6.6V:
987 units required, 306kg, About $100,000
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: August 31, 2006 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Hot New RC Battery
For an EV sized pack (100Ah 312V) with these SMC cells, it would take nearly
6000 cells, weigh just over 400kg and cost roughly $53,000
For Kokam: it would take 84 cells, weigh 232kg and cost about $30,000
The Milwaukee V30 cordless battery: 368 units, 382kg and $50,000 (has a BMS
though)
For Thundersky: 84 cells, 253kg and $14,000 (although these are not proving
up to their capacity)
Of course there is more to consider - the amount of power that can be
delivered, ordering in bulk quantities, battery management systems, assembly
effort, etc.
Also, does anyone have pricing on the A123 batteries...
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: August 31, 2006 12:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hot New RC Battery
The newest hot one seems to be the IB4200. It is a Nimh C cell, only
68 grams. It can belt out 35 amps, and still be at the nominal 1.2 Volts! It
has about 1/2 the internal resistance of the next best cell (that I know
about, anyway). Some guys on the web claim they can pull 200 Amps from these
things! I saw a chart claiming you could pull 70 Amps for 2 minutes!
I got these specs from several web sites, nothing personally verified. If
you can believe the specs, they are not too far behind
A123 Lithium batteries. Costs I saw were about $9 / cell.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Its similar technology but not the same exact cells, the power-motion stuff
is actually from valance, the guys that do the EV stuff that some people on
this list are actually using.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kaido Kert
Sent: Friday, 1 September 2006 8:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hot New RC Battery
Someone on RC forums claimed that these in Milwaukee V28 are the same
Saphion cells that are sold at http://www.power-motion.com/ for
example, is that true ?
-kert
On 9/1/06, David Ankers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Don,
>
> The Milwaukee V28 can be done a bit cheaper by street prices, $33,000
rather
> than the $50,000 and they are lighter without the case - 257kg in the case
> you mention.
>
> Currently testing these cells in a Goped scooter before I make the leap
next
> year to put them in a car.
>
> http://www.ev.com.au/IMG_1778.jpg
>
> Bit messy but the batteries live up to the claims.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Don Cameron
> Sent: Friday, 1 September 2006 11:39 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Hot New RC Battery
>
> For the A123 Battery, using the introductory price of their Hypersonic4600
> 6.6V:
>
> 987 units required, 306kg, About $100,000
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Don Cameron
> Sent: August 31, 2006 9:43 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Hot New RC Battery
>
> For an EV sized pack (100Ah 312V) with these SMC cells, it would take
nearly
> 6000 cells, weigh just over 400kg and cost roughly $53,000
>
> For Kokam: it would take 84 cells, weigh 232kg and cost about $30,000
>
> The Milwaukee V30 cordless battery: 368 units, 382kg and $50,000 (has a
BMS
> though)
>
> For Thundersky: 84 cells, 253kg and $14,000 (although these are not
proving
> up to their capacity)
>
>
> Of course there is more to consider - the amount of power that can be
> delivered, ordering in bulk quantities, battery management systems,
assembly
> effort, etc.
>
>
> Also, does anyone have pricing on the A123 batteries...
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Dymaxion
> Sent: August 31, 2006 12:29 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Hot New RC Battery
>
> The newest hot one seems to be the IB4200. It is a Nimh C cell, only
> 68 grams. It can belt out 35 amps, and still be at the nominal 1.2 Volts!
It
> has about 1/2 the internal resistance of the next best cell (that I know
> about, anyway). Some guys on the web claim they can pull 200 Amps from
these
> things! I saw a chart claiming you could pull 70 Amps for 2 minutes!
>
> I got these specs from several web sites, nothing personally verified. If
> you can believe the specs, they are not too far behind
> A123 Lithium batteries. Costs I saw were about $9 / cell.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 23:30:20 -0800, you wrote:
>Found a 1980 Pinto in town with a perfect body and blown engine for $100. Curb
>weight 2556# minus the typical stuff of 712# equals
>an 1844# glider. Its probably got the 6-3/4" rear end so I could probably
>easily swap it for an 8". If I look at pictures right
>there should be lots of battery room under the back seat and in place of that
>explosive gas tank behind the axle. Anyone got any
>comments on the Pinto as a conversion? Do they handle OK, is the steering
>dependable (aren't they rack & pinion)? I never drove
>one. Any chance of fitting dual motors under the hood with direct drive to
>the rear-end?
>
>
Be careful. I am revamping a 1981 Jet Electrica.<Ford Escort> Parts
can be VERY hard to find on these old econoboxes. You may not be able
to find parts for the suspension. On the good side it is a rear wheel
drive. Plenty of space up front in the engine compartment. I and a
friend drove the crap out of one in the 70's. As hard as we drove it
she never failed to get us home. It had non-power steering, but as
long as you are moving any at all it was fine. Contrary to popular
opinion it never exploded once.
R. Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
1981 Jet Electrica.
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Zap continues to try and sell them at a high premium. Because of the Emissions
changes, the cars mileaged is reduced to the ~40 mpg city range. Canadian
(diesel) and European models are a bit higher. The car does get much better in
highway driving.
Relatively low drag on the body/tires. Lead acid version is running appx
140-160 watt-hr / mile. Space is the biggest constraint on an 8 foot long car.
That 700 cc turbo engine is pretty small/compact compared to the space it was
sitting in :-) 10 optimas (D31s) put the range in the upper 30 miles (to
80%DOD). Current pulls are pretty low for acceleration / cruise.
Without an exotic battery, it would make a good city commuter car, but limited
highway usability. FYI, after conversion still allowed ~300 lbs to remain under
manufacturers gross weight.
Peter
www.smartev.us
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Hi Folks
FT is in his element here, he walks up to a piston manufacturer and says-
"what are these things?" After some blanks stares, he says- "my motor
doesn't have anything like this in it". Then the rep says- "what is it? a
rotary?"
So FT replies- "nope, it's electric"!
A substantial number of these folks had not a clue that electric drag racing
even exists, but they do now!
This is the last day of the show, we have had lots of interest from everyone
and many offers of assistance from component manufacturers.
Tonight we will be attending the Top Fuel and Funny Car qualifying rounds at
the Mac Tools US Nationals, the largest drag race on earth. At this event,
we will be handing out the remainder of our NEDRA brochures to anyone that
will take them.
A Wayland-type report will come after the road trip is done.
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Director
www.nedra.com
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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Jack,
I actually just purchased a new clamp on meter from fluke about 2 months ago
and have been happy with it.
This is the link,
http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/LH2015.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnitedStates&;
Category=CLMP(FlukeProducts)
It was about $130 from my local supply house.
Regards,
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: AC/DC 1000-2000 Amp Meter
I need to buy a clamp-on Amp meter, I prefer one that can handle 2000A, both
AC and DC.
Prefer it not to cost a lot of course, but I don't want any junk either.
Anyone have suggestions?
thanks,
Jack
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--- Begin Message ---
Be sure you get the right voltage rated cable. Welding cable comes in low
voltage, the leads that come off the welder and high voltage that is rated
for 600 volts for power leads.
Auto parts store, normally stock the low voltage type, but the same wire
companies also have the high voltage type too.
There is also different types of wire stranding. My first battery pack was
of the 1000 + strands per 2/0 cable which can shear if you do not used
expanded grip terminal lugs that go over the insulation or use a heavy duty
heat shrink. My cable ends still fracture.
I am trying the larger strand cable that has been compress which we call
COMPACT wire in the electrical business. These wire strands are form in a
straight line, non-twisted, which are triangle in shape. The cable
insulation is rated for 600 volts and also have a reduce diameter.
You can bend the wire at 90 degrees right at the terminal lug, without
breaking any wires.
The ohms per foot is the same as the standard wire.
The watts per mile was even less than the fine stranded welding cable which
wires become very brittle and fracture. There was also a lot of corrosion
on the ends, because the lite weight heat shrink was not tight and seal.
If you use the correct wire type, terminal lugs installation, not fracture
the wires during the crimping process or make them brittle if you solder
them, and use a sealant heat shrink, then you can make this cable work.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:17 PM
Subject: Battery Cable needed
> I got the stuff but I am down here in non-EV land, Fresno California.
>
> I found the proper connectors at a connector house and a battery
> supplier. While you might get a hammer crimper from a golf cart shop,
> Even the battery supplier that had the fittings sold what looked like an
> over sized bolt cutter.
>
> Here Are the options.
> Get a hammer crimper
> Look thru the archives on the how to make you own crimper (welding a
> socket, split in half into a bolt cutter)
> Look on ebay for tools $$$
> Buy a made to length battery cable from one of the solar or RV guys
> like
> http://www.custombatterycables.com/product_info.htm
>
> Tell me what you need and we will just have to use UPS.
>
> The guys that sell the battery connectors also sell glue lined heat
> shrink, very cool!
>
> I was happy that I bought the crimper as I reworked a lot lately, I even
> have some cables lying around that are already made (2/0)
>
> PS The connectors for the positive and for the negative posts are
> actually different.
>
> But man, seattle is a lot closer to EV territory, maybe someone else can
> chime in.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 9/1/06 5:59:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Subj: RPM Trade Show - What are these things?
Date: 9/1/06 5:59:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roy LeMeur)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Hi Folks
FT is in his element here, he walks up to a piston manufacturer and says-
"what are these things?" After some blanks stares, he says- "my motor
doesn't have anything like this in it". Then the rep says- "what is it? a
rotary?"
So FT replies- "nope, it's electric"!
A substantial number of these folks had not a clue that electric drag racing
even exists, but they do now!
This is the last day of the show, we have had lots of interest from everyone
and many offers of assistance from component manufacturers.
Tonight we will be attending the Top Fuel and Funny Car qualifying rounds at
the Mac Tools US Nationals, the largest drag race on earth. At this event,
we will be handing out the remainder of our NEDRA brochures to anyone that
will take them.
A Wayland-type report will come after the road trip is done. >>
***You are indeed lucky to attend this race The US nationals.Enjoy this heads
up racing. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
