EV Digest 5822
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Automotive X Prize
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: BB600 odd nuts
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bill Dube' and Killacycle staged for a win on Dragtimes/reading with
definition!!!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: BB600 odd nuts + 40 miles on first run!
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Cableform Speed Control Module Needed
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Curb Weights
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Curb weights
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV VW parts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Cableform Speed Control Module Needed
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Curb weights
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Automotive X Prize
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: splined couplers
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV VW parts
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 192v charging question (9A31 Dekka Intimidators)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by Lawrence Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV VW parts
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Curb Weights
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV VW parts
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:12 AM 2/09/06 -0700, Lawrence wrote:
I drive a smart and routinely get ~52 mpg (US gallons) and I don't try
very hard. I have seen the numbers on one driver who tries and he gets 61
mpg mostly highway with some city. 74mpg is hard but probably doable, you
would have to drive highway and keep the speed around 45 to 50 mph to
avoid the air resistance. I don't try hard and one major section on my
commute is about 10km highway at 100kph or 62mph.
G'day All
Forgive me, but those fuel numbers are "big whoopy-doo". I used to drive a
diesel Ford Fiesta (UK model) that despite the way I drove (lead foot) got
over 50mpg (british gallons) and I carried all sorts of stuff including
table tops, and occasionally 5 of us would go away for the weekend camping
(try those things in a Smart!). When I chose to drive gently I'd get in the
order of 65mpg and once for an economy test I achieved the 74mpg at 90km/h
stated in the handbook. The only thing that is "smart" (aside the name)
about a Smart is its' crash-worthyness over other high-mpg vehicles. One of
my vehicles I have now is a petrol Daihatsu Mira that gets over 30mpg doing
town errands with a lead-foot driver (me). The use of that vehicle lend
itself very well to what an EV would be useable for.
The bit about dropping/swapping the engine and drivetrain may have some
merit, if you can figure out a way to change out the fuel tank at the same
time (or to have the batteries and fuel tank both stay in the vehicle).
There used to be a bus company here that set up the majority of their
vehicles with a modular engine and gearbox system - it aparently took two
mechanics a little over half an hour to pull the big diesel engine, gearbox
and all the systems attached to them.
Lawrence, how much space is in your Smart that could be used for batteries?
I'd guess there is ICE stuff in the space at the moment?
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have recently started blogging on the Automotive X Prize website.
http://auto.xprize.org/ I encourage you all to join me.
Here is my latest post in reply to "Where is Innovation" by Neil Anderson,
one of the X Prize team members.
http://autoxprize.typepad.com/axp/2006/08/innovation.html#comments
"Racing is one avenue that spurs on technology and innovation. As such I
think NEDRA, the National Electric Drag Racing Association deserves mention,
www.nedra.com. Now in it's ninth year NEDRA racers are now going head to
head with gas racers and beating them most efficiently."
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are gonna go to the trouble of turning up somthing on the lathe,
how about this idea?
Take a long rod and hollow out for the ball and turn a bevel on the
outside at the appropriate angle.
Set this up on the mill/drill press at the angle and using the flat of
the bevel to help start, drill and tap for a set screw.
Then take some set screws and form a ball on the end(or maybe use ball
plungers) Do what you like on the other end to help turn it; a hole for
the T handle borrowed from your tap handle or wrench flats, etc,
Maybe this nut was made to allow spring loaded ball shaped detents to
lock in so they can be driven an electric drive without as much risk of
popping off and shorting out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brightness helps but what I do for clarity is use a pinhole to look through.
Make a small hole with your finger(curl your indes finger untill it makes a
small hole. What a pin hole does is only allow light from one small
direction into your eye. It is amazing what you can then see in detail. If
I put my face right up to the screen I can see all the pixels of the CRT.
Looks a little like woven cloth @ a 45° angle across the screen. Little
diamonds and black lines. I suppose you could make a small hole in a piece
of paper but in any case you do have to have a lot of light for the trick to
work because the pinhole also limits light that comes into your eye. But
that's why it works so well on the CRT. You might have to take your glasses
off to use this technique but the glasses won't help you. It's the focusing
the image on the back of your eye with no side images that make this
technique work. I just tried using a hole poked in a piece of paper with a
pencil and that worked. The paper doesn't have to go right up to your eye
ball but in some cases it might help. This is the same as a pinhole camera.
Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Bill Dube' and Killacycle staged for a win on Dragtimes
>
> From: "James Massey"
>
> > Once Bill has been "featured time-slip of the month" there will no
longer
> > be any EVs on their "top 10" list - just back in the pages on the
previous
> > featured cars. Has no-one else got a respectable timeslip to put up?
>
> There's a couple of others that come to mind right off.
> It would be nice to eventually build up their "EV page" until it's
> a neat little album of some of the best looking And performing
> EVs and a nice variety at the same time. One great addition would
> be Dennis Berube's dragster, and the other one that came to mind
> right off is Roderick Wilde's yellow roadster.
>
> I haven't had any trouble with the numbers, but I do have to
> take an extremely close look at the screen to figure them out. It
> might be possible to adjust the screen controls a bit to make it
> easier to decipher them.
>
> John
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One more option Eric did not mention:
Replace those goofy nuts with regular flange nuts (or other more appropriate
fastener), once you get them off. Obviously they are a specialty item, which
usually means money in the long run. What happens when you lose one, or
strip one, or cross-thread one? What happens when you lose or break your
special/expensive/custom tool? You will have to do some research to find an
exact replacement if your source will not replace them. It appears those
nuts are designed to have a security feature, same as the square bit screws
used to in public restrooms, to prevent theft and vandalism. If you don't
need that feature, replace them.
I am a manufacturing engineer, so when I see something like this it makes me
cringe. If one of my design engineers came to me with something like this he
would at least get a good chuckle out of me. Why make things more
complicated than they have to be? Unless there is a specific reason to use
that exact feature, don't.
In order to appreciate the reasoning for using those specific nuts, you
might want to call the manufacturer or vendor and ask them.
I promise I am not trying to be negative. I just like things to be easier in
the long run..
~Dave O.
On 9/1/06, Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike,
Where did you get the bb600's from? Are there more?
-- Eric
Mike Phillips wrote:
> The BB600 packs I got are 19 to a box. The box is something special,
> but the nuts that hold the buss bars in place are not one I've seen
> before. Here is a link. Please tell me what that nut it is so I can get
> a socket for it.
>
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/nuts2.jpg
>
> These BB600 cells are also different in that the normal 10-32 screws
> have been replaced with a 10-32 to 3/8" stud-standoff. You can see it
> under the buss bar. Maybe for higher current. The buss bars and nuts
> are covered with Cosmolene. So that's why they have a brown tint to
> them.
>
> Tonight these cells on their first journey out took the USE truck 40
> miles on 38ah at night, headlights and radio on, 66 degree ambient,
> medium lead foot, 34-40mph in stop and go traffic with lots of stop
> lights. Awesome first run! I think I can get 50 miles. So for a little
> more weight the truck has well over doubled it's mileage on only 228
> cells. There are 24 more going into the box, but they just arrived
> today.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland,
I contacted Cableform. They have them but they're are a bit pricey, like
$500.00. Anyone know of any used ones?
Best,
Mark Stimson
Fairfield, Ioway
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm having trouble finding Mini Truck specifications. Looking for Mazda
B2000 Cab Plus from the 80's Toyota, Mitsubishi etc.... Spec's on the
Extra/extended cabs. Thanks Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Curb Weights
> In weight order...
> carmake | carmodel | carweight
> ------------+---------------------------+-----------
> Geo | Metro 3-door | 1591
> Subaru | Justy 3-door | 1745
> Honda | CRX | 1967
> Mazda | Miata | 2182
> Volkswagen | Fox 4-door | 2203
> Mazda | 323 3-door | 2238
> Volkswagen | Golf 5-door | 2246
> Volkswagen | Golf GTI 16V | 2262
> Geo | Storm | 2282
> Plymouth | Horizon | 2296
> Volkswagen | Jetta | 2305
> Ford | Escort 5-door | 2310
> Toyota | MR-2 | 2350
> Subaru | Loyale wagon | 2370
> Toyota | Corolla 4-door | 2390
> Isuzu | Impulse | 2411
> Chevrolet | Cavalier 2-door | 2436
> Volkswagen | Jetta GLI 16V | 2440
> Subaru | XT | 2455
> Peugeot | 405S 4-door | 2460
> Toyota | MR-2 Supercharged | 2493
> Ford | Tempo | 2515
> Acura | Integra 3 door | 2544
> Alfa Romeo | Spider | 2550
> Mazda | MX-6 | 2560
> Honda | Prelude Si | 2571
> Mitsubishi | Galant | 2601
> Audi | 80 | 2612
> Subaru | Legacy 4-door FWD | 2620
> Toyota | Corolla 4-door All-trac | 2650
> Dodge | Eagle Talon turbo | 2651
> Nissan | 240SX | 2657
> Toyota | Camry 4 cyl. | 2690
> Volkswagan | Coraddo G60 | 2695
> Toyota | Celica GT | 2696
> Ford | Probe | 2731
> Saab | 900 S 3-door | 2732
> Ford | Mustang LX 4 cyl.) | 2759
> Honda | Accord | 2773
> Nissan | Stanza | 2788
> Mazda | RX-7 | 2800
> Chrysler | LeBaron V6 | 2810
> Subaru | Legacy 4-door 4WD | 2830
> Pontiac | 6000 | 2843
> Acura | NSX | 2850
> BMW | 325i | 2855
> Mazda | RX-7 2+2 | 2880
> Chevrolet | Celebrity 4-door | 2888
> Volvo | 240 sedan | 2919
> Audi | 100 | 2932
> Volvo | 740 sedan | 2954
> Ford | Taurus | 2956
> Toyota | Celica GT-S | 2975
> Mercedes | 190E 2.6 | 2995
> Peugeot | 505 4-door | 2998
> Porsche | 944 S2 | 2998
> Chevrolet | Beretta 2-door | 3000
> Saab | 9000 5-door | 3004
> Porashe | 911 Carrera 2 | 3031
> Mazda | RX-7 convertible | 3045
> BMW | 325ix | 3054
> BMW | M3 | 3055
> Chevrolet | Camaro V6 | 3077
> Audi | 200 | 3080
> Dodge | Eagle Premier | 3083
> Toyota | Camry All-Trac | 3086
> Plymouth | Voyager | 3100
> Mitsubishi | Sigma V6 | 3108
> Chevrolet | Lumina 4-door V6 | 3122
> Oldsmobile | Cutlass Supreme V6 2-door | 3133
> Acura | Legend | 3139
> Lexus | ES250 | 3163
> Audi | V8 Quattro 20V | 3174
> Pontiac | Grand Prix 2-door | 3186
> Nissan | Maxima | 3193
> Chrysler | TC by Maserati(turbo) | 3200
> Mercedes | 300E sedan | 3210
> Nissan | 300ZX | 3219
> Chevrolet | Corvette | 3223
> Sterling | 827 5-door | 3230
> Porsche | 911 Carrera 4 | 3252
> Toyota | Celica All-Trac Turbo | 3272
> Buick | Electra | 3288
> Nissan | 300ZX 2+2 | 3313
> Oldsmobile | Ninety Eight | 3325
> Pontiac | Bonneville | 3325
> Infiniti | M30 | 3333
> Alfa Romeo | 164s | 3335
> Buick | Reatta | 3379
> BMW | 525i | 3395
> Volvo | 780 coupe | 3415
> Toyota | Cressida | 3417
> Jeep | Cherokee Limited | 3453
> Oldsmobile | Toranado | 3462
> Toyota | Supra | 3463
> Cadillac | DeVille | 3466
> Nissan | 300ZX Turbo | 3474
> Mazda | 929 | 3477
> Pontiac | Trans Sport | 3500
> Porsche | 928 S4 | 3505
> BMW | 335i | 3530
> Chrysler | Imperial | 3570
> Ford | Thunderbird | 3581
> Lincoln | Continental | 3663
> Lexus | LS400 | 3755
> Lincoln | Mark VII | 3779
> Chrysler | Town & Country | 3817
> Ford | LTD Crown Victoria | 3821
> BMW | 735i | 3835
> Jaguar | XJ-6 | 3903
> Mercedes | 560SEC | 3915
> Mazda | MPV 4WD | 3920
> Infiniti | Q45 | 3950
> Mercedes | 500SL | 3970
> Jaguar | XJ-S V-12 | 4015
> Lincoln | Town Car | 4025
> BMW | 750iL | 4235
> Buick | Estate Wagon | 4281
> Cadillac | Brougham | 4283
> Range | Rover | 4389
> (120 rows)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gas mileage figures can be found at fueleconomy.gov although, for EVs, I
cant really see how that is really relevant since we typically junk the ICE
anyway. I suppose it could be used to compare base economy between vehicles,
but there are so many other things to consider first. Like the GWVR and
brakes, can they handle an extra 800-1000 lbs of lead? Until lighter
batteries become affordable, those are my first concerns.
http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
~Dave O.
On 9/1/06, Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Sep 1, 2006, at 9:53 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
>
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: September 1, 2006 9:33:04 AM PDT
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
>
>
> (I've copied this from a car blog. It's 1990 cars so good for us. I
> couldn't find much else. Anybody found other lists? What is the
> Karmen Ghia
> Curb Weight? Inquiring minds want to know. Lawrence Rhodes.)...
>
> There's always a lot of talk here about how cars have become so
> heavy. So
> here's a list I've compiled from my car magazine archive.
>
> All weights are in lbs.
>
> EDIT: MPG FIGURES ADDED - these are from the 1990 EPA fuel economy
> guide
>
> Acura Integra 3-door - 2,544 24/28 MPG
> Acura Legend - 3,139 19/24 MPG
>
Snip
This is great data Larwrence, but do you have any information on what
type of transmission is used in each of the gas mileage figures.
Auto or manual can skew the data by over 10%.
If anyone has any interest email me. I have a list for all 1999
model year cars. This is a sample. I do not want to waste bandwidth
with all 785 records. I am looking for more weight and payload data
for this database.
Type Make &
Model Trans. City Highway Displ. Cyl GVW Payload, lb
Pickup 4WD Chevrolet S10
L4 16 21 4.3 6
5050 1472
Pickup 4WD Chevrolet S10
M5 17 21 4.3 6
5050 1472
Pickup 4WD Chevrolet K1500
Siverado M5 15 18 4.3
6
Pickup 4WD Chevrolet K1500
Siverado M5 15 19 4.8
8
Pickup 4WD Chevrolet K1500
L4 14 18 5 8
Pickup 4WD Chevrolet K1500
Siverado L4 15 18 4.8
8
Small Pickup 2WD Chevrolet S10
L4 17 22 4.3 6
3225 1172
Small Pickup 2WD Chevrolet S10
M5 17 23 4.3 6
4200 1488
Small Pickup 2WD Chevrolet S10
M5 23 29 2.2 4
4200 1159
Small Pickup 2WD Chevrolet S10
L4 19 26 2.2 4
4600 1488
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire—bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adapter plate alone is 600 dollars.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: EV VW parts
> gsmith52362t6d? looks like an autogenerated username
>
> not going to get any bidding, especially with no information and a
starting
> bid of $600?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:35 PM
> Subject: EV VW parts
>
>
> > Saw these on eBay - no pictures, and no rating for the seller:
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160024771584
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
I know, and that's the factory price. I used to have one, but it was
modified for 180 volts. I gave the CableForm controller to a Technical
College.
They cost more to repair them, then to buy a new one. The accelerator unit
has a large taper cone pot, internal micro switches and four resistors on
the board that you can change for different acceleration modes, from slow to
violent.
I had mine set to fast, which was still way too much, it felt like a semi
hit me in the back at 100 mph. Shear a 4.5 inch steel motor adapter right
in half.
There is a solder in fuse on the board. I change this to a panel type fuse
which is place on the surface of the motor controller enclosure. There is
some extra pins in the plug in unit to add this circuit.
Roland
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: Cableform Speed Control Module Needed
>
> Thanks Roland,
>
> I contacted Cableform. They have them but they're are a bit pricey, like
> $500.00. Anyone know of any used ones?
>
> Best,
>
> Mark Stimson
> Fairfield, Ioway
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You needed to poke around a little bit more:
<http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/download.shtml>
The data files have wonderful things like vehicle weight, and power
to go 50 mph.
Also, fuel economy is a pretty good predictor of efficiency. You can
see different motors in a car still get almost the same gas mileage
(and sometimes the bigger motor will get better mileage).
Definitely it seems a bit hard to get GVWR, and things like space for
batteries, how good the brakes are, etc. Trucks and sports cars tend
to have bigger brakes and tougher suspensions.
--- David O'Neel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gas mileage figures can be found at fueleconomy.gov although, for
> EVs, I
> cant really see how that is really relevant since we typically junk
> the ICE
> anyway. I suppose it could be used to compare base economy between
> vehicles,
> but there are so many other things to consider first. Like the GWVR
> and
> brakes, can they handle an extra 800-1000 lbs of lead? Until
> lighter
> batteries become affordable, those are my first concerns.
>
> http://fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rod,
I get a feeling that you were involved in developing their list of
"organizations that are trying to change the status quo". Over half of them
are EV oriented or related! It still surprises me that some people can't see
the obvious shift in the industry.
~Dave O.
On 9/2/06, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have recently started blogging on the Automotive X Prize website.
http://auto.xprize.org/ I encourage you all to join me.
Here is my latest post in reply to "Where is Innovation" by Neil Anderson,
one of the X Prize team members.
http://autoxprize.typepad.com/axp/2006/08/innovation.html#comments
"Racing is one avenue that spurs on technology and innovation. As such I
think NEDRA, the National Electric Drag Racing Association deserves
mention,
www.nedra.com. Now in it's ninth year NEDRA racers are now going head to
head with gas racers and beating them most efficiently."
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was a discussion this week on this list started by Lee Hart
entitled "Cheap EV Motor," which mentioned a large GE compound motor
from Surplus Center:
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006090209581641&catname=&qty=1&item=10-2120
Lee believes the above motor is considerably larger than 2 HP.
The motor I purchased is a 5.6HP 48V series wound found here:
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006090209581641&catname=&qty=1&item=10-1422
Also, this motor was mentioned in the thread:
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006090209581641&catname=&qty=1&item=6-936
--Eric
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Eric,
I am looking for a small series wound or sepex motor for a hydrostatic tractor
project, could you send the url for the item(s) you found? I need to replace
an 18 Hp ICE. Thanks David Chapman.
Quoting Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I ordered one of those GE series wound motors from Surplus Center, and
it has a male 1.25" 14T splined shaft. Finding internally splined
couplers / hubs / sprockets to mate up to this thing is proving to be
really difficult, at least via web searches. Anyone have a source that
they _know_ carries this sort of thing? I checked (amongst many others)
mcmaster and SDP-SI, with little success.
-------------------------------------------------
FastQ Communications
Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was planning to buy the parts (but I haven't heard back about shipping
arrangements), so please let me know if you will be bidding against me. I
don't want to unnecessarily drive the price up if you aren't serious about the
parts. Just to be curtious to friends. If you recall, a week ago, I asked the
list to dig deep for a VW adapter plate and motor ... here it is.
Steve
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Adapter plate alone is 600 dollars.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: EV VW parts
> gsmith52362t6d? looks like an autogenerated username
>
> not going to get any bidding, especially with no information and a
starting
> bid of $600?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To: "EV Discussion List"
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:35 PM
> Subject: EV VW parts
>
>
> > Saw these on eBay - no pictures, and no rating for the seller:
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160024771584
> >
>
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> ...reversing a cell. But as Lee stated, no doubt it cost me a $ loss
> in life expectancy.
I didn't know you had Powercheqs. They probably saved your batteries!
An individual lead-acid cell isn't harmed by taking it down to 1.75v, or
even 1v under load. What murders it is going to ZERO volts and then
reverse-charging it (so it becomes a -2v cell, not +2v)!
But, we always use series strings of cells, and don't measure the
individual cell voltages. When the cells aren't identical, or aren't at
the same state of charge, one cell will always go dead first. If all we
are measuring is the total voltage of the battery, we can't tell when
that cell reaches dead.
The commonly accepted rule is that you look for 1.75v/cell under load
(5.25v for a 6v battery, 10.5v for a 12v battery, etc.) This works
because when a cell approaches dead, its internal resistance also rises
dramatically. So when the first cell goes dead (0v), the total battery
voltage will rather quickly drop 2 volts. A 12v battery drops to 10v,
for example. By using 10.5v as your cutoff point, you are GUESSING that
the drop was all due to one cell going to 0.5v. It's a safe guess.
But in your case, the batteries are quite new, so individual cells are
still pretty closely matched. The Powercheqs were keeping the charge
balanced between batteries. So, you probably did not have any cells that
were significantly weaker, or at a significantly lower state of charge.
So, when your batteries got to 10.5v under load, it wasn't from 5 cells
at 2v and 1 cell at 0.5; it was from 6 cells at 1.75v each.
This is confirmed by your resting voltages of 11.67-11.82v. That is very
well balanced for a dead pack. It implies that the individual cells were
at 1.945-1.97v, which is indeed barely above 0% SOC.
If you had seen any battery resting voltages around 10v, it would
confirm that you had reversed a cell, and thereby murdered that battery.
On your charging: It does sound like you are being a little too
conservative on your charging. The 14.125v/battery ending point is ok
for daily use, but you still should periodically take them higher; to
14.4v as Deka indicated. The key is that you need to charge long enough
for the current to come down to 0.1amps or so. Roger Stockton covered
that point nicely.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
I don't disagree that there are some diesels that may do better and I
have heard/read that the smart can too if I take it in and have the
programming changed. I suspect that I might fail the smog tests
afterward or I am not sure why Mercedes didn't do it.
The main problem I see with it going electric is that the space for
batteries is small. There is supposed to be space in the floor designed
for the Zebra battery and I would probably need that system which is
what Mercedes is using in the electric version they have just announced
or something with LiIon cells that could be built into a monoblock of
some kind to fit the same space. I need the engineering drawings and
service manuals. I figured in a couple more years it will be out of
warrantee and I will have paid it off then it will be time to play.
I've been racking my email folders looking for an email about a smart
conversion. They show a picture with the engine bay almost empty and
just a motor and gearbox. I have a link somewhere and was going to
email them and ask if they would share with me the conversion details.
Lawrence
James Massey wrote:
At 01:12 AM 2/09/06 -0700, Lawrence wrote:
I drive a smart and routinely get ~52 mpg (US gallons) and I don't
try very hard. I have seen the numbers on one driver who tries and
he gets 61 mpg mostly highway with some city. 74mpg is hard but
probably doable, you would have to drive highway and keep the speed
around 45 to 50 mph to avoid the air resistance. I don't try hard
and one major section on my commute is about 10km highway at 100kph
or 62mph.
G'day All
Forgive me, but those fuel numbers are "big whoopy-doo". I used to
drive a diesel Ford Fiesta (UK model) that despite the way I drove
(lead foot) got over 50mpg (british gallons) and I carried all sorts
of stuff including table tops, and occasionally 5 of us would go away
for the weekend camping (try those things in a Smart!). When I chose
to drive gently I'd get in the order of 65mpg and once for an economy
test I achieved the 74mpg at 90km/h stated in the handbook. The only
thing that is "smart" (aside the name) about a Smart is its'
crash-worthyness over other high-mpg vehicles. One of my vehicles I
have now is a petrol Daihatsu Mira that gets over 30mpg doing town
errands with a lead-foot driver (me). The use of that vehicle lend
itself very well to what an EV would be useable for.
The bit about dropping/swapping the engine and drivetrain may have
some merit, if you can figure out a way to change out the fuel tank at
the same time (or to have the batteries and fuel tank both stay in the
vehicle). There used to be a bus company here that set up the majority
of their vehicles with a modular engine and gearbox system - it
aparently took two mechanics a little over half an hour to pull the
big diesel engine, gearbox and all the systems attached to them.
Lawrence, how much space is in your Smart that could be used for
batteries? I'd guess there is ICE stuff in the space at the moment?
Regards
[Technik] James
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--- Begin Message ---
I['d find out exactly WHAT kind of motor it is first. Might be an old
aircraft starter motor or something similar.
> I was planning to buy the parts (but I haven't heard back about shipping
> arrangements), so please let me know if you will be bidding against me. I
> don't want to unnecessarily drive the price up if you aren't serious about
> the parts. Just to be curtious to friends. If you recall, a week ago, I
> asked the list to dig deep for a VW adapter plate and motor ... here it
> is.
>
> Steve
>
> Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Adapter plate alone is 600 dollars.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark McCurdy"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: EV VW parts
>
>
>> gsmith52362t6d? looks like an autogenerated username
>>
>> not going to get any bidding, especially with no information and a
> starting
>> bid of $600?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> To: "EV Discussion List"
>> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:35 PM
>> Subject: EV VW parts
>>
>>
>> > Saw these on eBay - no pictures, and no rating for the seller:
>> >
>> >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160024771584
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
> faster.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My 1991 B2200 reg cab shows GVWR as 4460 lbs, but I dont know the curb
weight. I believe it is between 2800 and 3300 lbs. based on comparison to my
previous truck.
Also, I am curious, why consider such an old vehicle if your intention is an
EV conversion? Many improvements have been made in the last 20 years such as
safety and durability. Also, parts will probably be easier to find.
I suppose another characteristic to consider is coefficient of friction (for
wind resistance at speed). Trucks are not generally that good anyway, but
there may be surprising differences between makes and model years.
Maybe ideally, without getting into a PhD in physics, all this info could be
taken into a generic formula to represent overall EV potential. Has anyone
come across such an effort to list these qualities numerically?
~Dave O.
On 9/2/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm having trouble finding Mini Truck specifications. Looking for Mazda
B2000 Cab Plus from the 80's Toyota, Mitsubishi etc.... Spec's on the
Extra/extended cabs. Thanks Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Curb Weights
> In weight order...
> carmake | carmodel | carweight
> ------------+---------------------------+-----------
> Geo | Metro 3-door | 1591
> Subaru | Justy 3-door | 1745
> Honda | CRX | 1967
> Mazda | Miata | 2182
> Volkswagen | Fox 4-door | 2203
> Mazda | 323 3-door | 2238
> Volkswagen | Golf 5-door | 2246
> Volkswagen | Golf GTI 16V | 2262
> Geo | Storm | 2282
> Plymouth | Horizon | 2296
> Volkswagen | Jetta | 2305
> Ford | Escort 5-door | 2310
> Toyota | MR-2 | 2350
> Subaru | Loyale wagon | 2370
> Toyota | Corolla 4-door | 2390
> Isuzu | Impulse | 2411
> Chevrolet | Cavalier 2-door | 2436
> Volkswagen | Jetta GLI 16V | 2440
> Subaru | XT | 2455
> Peugeot | 405S 4-door | 2460
> Toyota | MR-2 Supercharged | 2493
> Ford | Tempo | 2515
> Acura | Integra 3 door | 2544
> Alfa Romeo | Spider | 2550
> Mazda | MX-6 | 2560
> Honda | Prelude Si | 2571
> Mitsubishi | Galant | 2601
> Audi | 80 | 2612
> Subaru | Legacy 4-door FWD | 2620
> Toyota | Corolla 4-door All-trac | 2650
> Dodge | Eagle Talon turbo | 2651
> Nissan | 240SX | 2657
> Toyota | Camry 4 cyl. | 2690
> Volkswagan | Coraddo G60 | 2695
> Toyota | Celica GT | 2696
> Ford | Probe | 2731
> Saab | 900 S 3-door | 2732
> Ford | Mustang LX 4 cyl.) | 2759
> Honda | Accord | 2773
> Nissan | Stanza | 2788
> Mazda | RX-7 | 2800
> Chrysler | LeBaron V6 | 2810
> Subaru | Legacy 4-door 4WD | 2830
> Pontiac | 6000 | 2843
> Acura | NSX | 2850
> BMW | 325i | 2855
> Mazda | RX-7 2+2 | 2880
> Chevrolet | Celebrity 4-door | 2888
> Volvo | 240 sedan | 2919
> Audi | 100 | 2932
> Volvo | 740 sedan | 2954
> Ford | Taurus | 2956
> Toyota | Celica GT-S | 2975
> Mercedes | 190E 2.6 | 2995
> Peugeot | 505 4-door | 2998
> Porsche | 944 S2 | 2998
> Chevrolet | Beretta 2-door | 3000
> Saab | 9000 5-door | 3004
> Porashe | 911 Carrera 2 | 3031
> Mazda | RX-7 convertible | 3045
> BMW | 325ix | 3054
> BMW | M3 | 3055
> Chevrolet | Camaro V6 | 3077
> Audi | 200 | 3080
> Dodge | Eagle Premier | 3083
> Toyota | Camry All-Trac | 3086
> Plymouth | Voyager | 3100
> Mitsubishi | Sigma V6 | 3108
> Chevrolet | Lumina 4-door V6 | 3122
> Oldsmobile | Cutlass Supreme V6 2-door | 3133
> Acura | Legend | 3139
> Lexus | ES250 | 3163
> Audi | V8 Quattro 20V | 3174
> Pontiac | Grand Prix 2-door | 3186
> Nissan | Maxima | 3193
> Chrysler | TC by Maserati(turbo) | 3200
> Mercedes | 300E sedan | 3210
> Nissan | 300ZX | 3219
> Chevrolet | Corvette | 3223
> Sterling | 827 5-door | 3230
> Porsche | 911 Carrera 4 | 3252
> Toyota | Celica All-Trac Turbo | 3272
> Buick | Electra | 3288
> Nissan | 300ZX 2+2 | 3313
> Oldsmobile | Ninety Eight | 3325
> Pontiac | Bonneville | 3325
> Infiniti | M30 | 3333
> Alfa Romeo | 164s | 3335
> Buick | Reatta | 3379
> BMW | 525i | 3395
> Volvo | 780 coupe | 3415
> Toyota | Cressida | 3417
> Jeep | Cherokee Limited | 3453
> Oldsmobile | Toranado | 3462
> Toyota | Supra | 3463
> Cadillac | DeVille | 3466
> Nissan | 300ZX Turbo | 3474
> Mazda | 929 | 3477
> Pontiac | Trans Sport | 3500
> Porsche | 928 S4 | 3505
> BMW | 335i | 3530
> Chrysler | Imperial | 3570
> Ford | Thunderbird | 3581
> Lincoln | Continental | 3663
> Lexus | LS400 | 3755
> Lincoln | Mark VII | 3779
> Chrysler | Town & Country | 3817
> Ford | LTD Crown Victoria | 3821
> BMW | 735i | 3835
> Jaguar | XJ-6 | 3903
> Mercedes | 560SEC | 3915
> Mazda | MPV 4WD | 3920
> Infiniti | Q45 | 3950
> Mercedes | 500SL | 3970
> Jaguar | XJ-S V-12 | 4015
> Lincoln | Town Car | 4025
> BMW | 750iL | 4235
> Buick | Estate Wagon | 4281
> Cadillac | Brougham | 4283
> Range | Rover | 4389
> (120 rows)
>
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for which vw is it for though?
if you assume a newer model, yeah, good price
but if it's for an old bug, no way
doesn't give year or model or anything useful, even if I was interested I
wouldn't bid, looks like an auction someone threw together in 5 seconds
no pictures for something with a starting bid of $600?
I just laugh and move on
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: EV VW parts
Adapter plate alone is 600 dollars.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: EV VW parts
gsmith52362t6d? looks like an autogenerated username
not going to get any bidding, especially with no information and a
starting
bid of $600?
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:35 PM
Subject: EV VW parts
> Saw these on eBay - no pictures, and no rating for the seller:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160024771584
>
--- End Message ---
