EV Digest 5823
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Removing BB600 odd nuts
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Removing BB600 odd nuts
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV VW parts
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: BB600 odd nuts + 40 miles on first run!
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Curb Weights
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Smart and EV
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: BB600 odd nuts + 40 miles on first run!
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Curb Weights
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Understanding EV design relationships
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Smart and EV
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
by "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: BB600 odd nuts + 40 miles on first run!
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Understanding EV design relationships
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Scooter motors & parts.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Zappy motors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Removing BB600 odd nuts
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: BB600 odd nuts (456 nuts!!)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just a thought,
Sears, and perhaps other places, sell a universal socket that is supposed
to fit most nuts, metric, standard, wing, etc.
Basically it's a big socket full of spring loaded pins with rounded ends.
You push it down on the nut and the pins that don't get pushed up grab the
sides of the nut. One of these 'might' be able to grab these nuts.
It's worth a try and if it doesn't work, take it back (or keep it, it's
kind of neat and can sometimes get nuts off that have rounded corners)
> Options:
>
> File two flat surfaces on each nut (or use a dremel cutter), remove with
> crescent wrench
>
> Use a small diameter hex socket that you don't care about, mounted in a
> drill or air wrench, and spin the nuts off at high speed, letting the
> friction dig in.
>
> Use a nut splitter, though finding one small enough that it doesn't
> short something will be difficult.
>
> Use a burr bit on a dremel to make the angles holes into vertical holes
> or grooves. Use a pin spanner wrench to remove nuts. Or a flat piece
> of metal that's the right width.
>
> Get a thick-walled tube that has an ID that's just slightly larger than
> the nut, drill angled holes, tap threads, put hardened (gr 8)
> small-diameter screws into holes tapped so that they angle into holes on
> nuts. You just have to _loosen_ all the nuts, then take them off by hand.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
>> These wierdo nuts are killing me! I can't even get them apart and
>> start installing the cells into the truck! I suppose machining a
>> socket would work, but I hate to scratch up nickel plated hardware.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> The BB600 packs I got are 19 to a box. The box is something special,
>>> but the nuts that hold the buss bars in place are not one I've seen
>>> before. Here is a link. Please tell me what that nut it is so I can get
>>> a socket for it.
>>>
>>> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/nuts2.jpg
>>>
>>> These BB600 cells are also different in that the normal 10-32 screws
>>> have been replaced with a 10-32 to 3/8" stud-standoff. You can see it
>>> under the buss bar. Maybe for higher current. The buss bars and nuts
>>> are covered with Cosmolene. So that's why they have a brown tint to
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Tonight these cells on their first journey out took the USE truck 40
>>> miles on 38ah at night, headlights and radio on, 66 degree ambient,
>>> medium lead foot, 34-40mph in stop and go traffic with lots of stop
>>> lights. Awesome first run! I think I can get 50 miles. So for a little
>>> more weight the truck has well over doubled it's mileage on only 228
>>> cells. There are 24 more going into the box, but they just arrived
>>> today.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a link to the socket I was talking about:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&pid=00947078000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Sockets&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
it's called a "Gator Grips universal socket" and costs $10
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Harris wrote:
> There is supposed to be space in the floor designed for the Zebra
> battery and I would probably need that system which is what
> Mercedes is using in the electric version they have just announced
> or something with LiIon cells that could be built into a monoblock of
> some kind to fit the same space.
The recent scoop is that the Zytec (sp?) built electric Smarts will be
switching to an Electrovaya Li pack instead of the Zebra.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A professionally made adapter plate can run $600. As far as you can tell
from the add this might be a piece of plywood.
I wonder about people sometimes. The first few pictures are free on ebay
and they don't charge by the word....
> Adapter plate alone is 600 dollars.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:16 PM
> Subject: Re: EV VW parts
>
>
>> gsmith52362t6d? looks like an autogenerated username
>>
>> not going to get any bidding, especially with no information and a
> starting
>> bid of $600?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:35 PM
>> Subject: EV VW parts
>>
>>
>> > Saw these on eBay - no pictures, and no rating for the seller:
>> >
>> >
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160024771584
>> >
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric,
These were just another surplus purchase for the guys in the BB600
yahoo group. I jumped in first. BB600's don't usually come in a pack
like this. They come as single cells. So I have a bonus with buss bars
and stainless milspec box, a cap tool, etc. There were 12 packs and I
got all 12. Started out as 21 packs, but the military swooped in a
took them even after I paid for all 21 units. Ah well.
Gents,
Thanks for the ideas. Something will work. Keep them coming!! It's a
shame these nuts can't be used as they are also nickel plated.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Where did you get the bb600's from? Are there more?
>
> -- Eric
>
>
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > The BB600 packs I got are 19 to a box. The box is something special,
> > but the nuts that hold the buss bars in place are not one I've seen
> > before. Here is a link. Please tell me what that nut it is so I
can get
> > a socket for it.
> >
> > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/nuts2.jpg
> >
> > These BB600 cells are also different in that the normal 10-32 screws
> > have been replaced with a 10-32 to 3/8" stud-standoff. You can see it
> > under the buss bar. Maybe for higher current. The buss bars and nuts
> > are covered with Cosmolene. So that's why they have a brown tint to
> > them.
> >
> > Tonight these cells on their first journey out took the USE truck 40
> > miles on 38ah at night, headlights and radio on, 66 degree ambient,
> > medium lead foot, 34-40mph in stop and go traffic with lots of stop
> > lights. Awesome first run! I think I can get 50 miles. So for a little
> > more weight the truck has well over doubled it's mileage on only 228
> > cells. There are 24 more going into the box, but they just arrived
> > today.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do not down grade trucks for efficiency. My brother has a jacked up Toyota
4wd Truck that has always got 30 mpg. It is an 89 model with the Extracab.
For some reason all the makers have a 2wd model that gets even better
mileage. This is why trucks are so good to convert. Get the right truck
and there is no or very little penalty at least on the road. Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Curb Weights
> My 1991 B2200 reg cab shows GVWR as 4460 lbs, but I dont know the curb
> weight. I believe it is between 2800 and 3300 lbs. based on comparison to
my
> previous truck.
>
> Also, I am curious, why consider such an old vehicle if your intention is
an
> EV conversion? Many improvements have been made in the last 20 years such
as
> safety and durability. Also, parts will probably be easier to find.
>
> I suppose another characteristic to consider is coefficient of friction
(for
> wind resistance at speed). Trucks are not generally that good anyway, but
> there may be surprising differences between makes and model years.
>
> Maybe ideally, without getting into a PhD in physics, all this info could
be
> taken into a generic formula to represent overall EV potential. Has anyone
> come across such an effort to list these qualities numerically?
>
> ~Dave O.
>
> On 9/2/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm having trouble finding Mini Truck specifications. Looking for Mazda
> > B2000 Cab Plus from the 80's Toyota, Mitsubishi etc.... Spec's on the
> > Extra/extended cabs. Thanks Lawrence Rhodes......
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:33 PM
> > Subject: Re: Curb Weights
> >
> >
> > > In weight order...
> > > carmake | carmodel | carweight
> > > ------------+---------------------------+-----------
> > > Geo | Metro 3-door | 1591
> > > Subaru | Justy 3-door | 1745
> > > Honda | CRX | 1967
> > > Mazda | Miata | 2182
> > > Volkswagen | Fox 4-door | 2203
> > > Mazda | 323 3-door | 2238
> > > Volkswagen | Golf 5-door | 2246
> > > Volkswagen | Golf GTI 16V | 2262
> > > Geo | Storm | 2282
> > > Plymouth | Horizon | 2296
> > > Volkswagen | Jetta | 2305
> > > Ford | Escort 5-door | 2310
> > > Toyota | MR-2 | 2350
> > > Subaru | Loyale wagon | 2370
> > > Toyota | Corolla 4-door | 2390
> > > Isuzu | Impulse | 2411
> > > Chevrolet | Cavalier 2-door | 2436
> > > Volkswagen | Jetta GLI 16V | 2440
> > > Subaru | XT | 2455
> > > Peugeot | 405S 4-door | 2460
> > > Toyota | MR-2 Supercharged | 2493
> > > Ford | Tempo | 2515
> > > Acura | Integra 3 door | 2544
> > > Alfa Romeo | Spider | 2550
> > > Mazda | MX-6 | 2560
> > > Honda | Prelude Si | 2571
> > > Mitsubishi | Galant | 2601
> > > Audi | 80 | 2612
> > > Subaru | Legacy 4-door FWD | 2620
> > > Toyota | Corolla 4-door All-trac | 2650
> > > Dodge | Eagle Talon turbo | 2651
> > > Nissan | 240SX | 2657
> > > Toyota | Camry 4 cyl. | 2690
> > > Volkswagan | Coraddo G60 | 2695
> > > Toyota | Celica GT | 2696
> > > Ford | Probe | 2731
> > > Saab | 900 S 3-door | 2732
> > > Ford | Mustang LX 4 cyl.) | 2759
> > > Honda | Accord | 2773
> > > Nissan | Stanza | 2788
> > > Mazda | RX-7 | 2800
> > > Chrysler | LeBaron V6 | 2810
> > > Subaru | Legacy 4-door 4WD | 2830
> > > Pontiac | 6000 | 2843
> > > Acura | NSX | 2850
> > > BMW | 325i | 2855
> > > Mazda | RX-7 2+2 | 2880
> > > Chevrolet | Celebrity 4-door | 2888
> > > Volvo | 240 sedan | 2919
> > > Audi | 100 | 2932
> > > Volvo | 740 sedan | 2954
> > > Ford | Taurus | 2956
> > > Toyota | Celica GT-S | 2975
> > > Mercedes | 190E 2.6 | 2995
> > > Peugeot | 505 4-door | 2998
> > > Porsche | 944 S2 | 2998
> > > Chevrolet | Beretta 2-door | 3000
> > > Saab | 9000 5-door | 3004
> > > Porashe | 911 Carrera 2 | 3031
> > > Mazda | RX-7 convertible | 3045
> > > BMW | 325ix | 3054
> > > BMW | M3 | 3055
> > > Chevrolet | Camaro V6 | 3077
> > > Audi | 200 | 3080
> > > Dodge | Eagle Premier | 3083
> > > Toyota | Camry All-Trac | 3086
> > > Plymouth | Voyager | 3100
> > > Mitsubishi | Sigma V6 | 3108
> > > Chevrolet | Lumina 4-door V6 | 3122
> > > Oldsmobile | Cutlass Supreme V6 2-door | 3133
> > > Acura | Legend | 3139
> > > Lexus | ES250 | 3163
> > > Audi | V8 Quattro 20V | 3174
> > > Pontiac | Grand Prix 2-door | 3186
> > > Nissan | Maxima | 3193
> > > Chrysler | TC by Maserati(turbo) | 3200
> > > Mercedes | 300E sedan | 3210
> > > Nissan | 300ZX | 3219
> > > Chevrolet | Corvette | 3223
> > > Sterling | 827 5-door | 3230
> > > Porsche | 911 Carrera 4 | 3252
> > > Toyota | Celica All-Trac Turbo | 3272
> > > Buick | Electra | 3288
> > > Nissan | 300ZX 2+2 | 3313
> > > Oldsmobile | Ninety Eight | 3325
> > > Pontiac | Bonneville | 3325
> > > Infiniti | M30 | 3333
> > > Alfa Romeo | 164s | 3335
> > > Buick | Reatta | 3379
> > > BMW | 525i | 3395
> > > Volvo | 780 coupe | 3415
> > > Toyota | Cressida | 3417
> > > Jeep | Cherokee Limited | 3453
> > > Oldsmobile | Toranado | 3462
> > > Toyota | Supra | 3463
> > > Cadillac | DeVille | 3466
> > > Nissan | 300ZX Turbo | 3474
> > > Mazda | 929 | 3477
> > > Pontiac | Trans Sport | 3500
> > > Porsche | 928 S4 | 3505
> > > BMW | 335i | 3530
> > > Chrysler | Imperial | 3570
> > > Ford | Thunderbird | 3581
> > > Lincoln | Continental | 3663
> > > Lexus | LS400 | 3755
> > > Lincoln | Mark VII | 3779
> > > Chrysler | Town & Country | 3817
> > > Ford | LTD Crown Victoria | 3821
> > > BMW | 735i | 3835
> > > Jaguar | XJ-6 | 3903
> > > Mercedes | 560SEC | 3915
> > > Mazda | MPV 4WD | 3920
> > > Infiniti | Q45 | 3950
> > > Mercedes | 500SL | 3970
> > > Jaguar | XJ-S V-12 | 4015
> > > Lincoln | Town Car | 4025
> > > BMW | 750iL | 4235
> > > Buick | Estate Wagon | 4281
> > > Cadillac | Brougham | 4283
> > > Range | Rover | 4389
> > > (120 rows)
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all concerning the smart car. We bought three gliders a couple of
years ago and I'm now down to my last car.
I have the fourtwo manual pictures on our website for the smart 2002 model.
Similar model through 1998 - 2006.
What I don't have are the pics from our first 72vt conversion which we just
sold. I'll call the guy to get pictures. My server bit the big one where all
our documents are stored and yes we had no backup that worked. That's what I
get for paying a friend (ex) to be our part-time IT guy.
We we able to build a simple box that was hung under the floor that held 6
optima marine batts. Not happy with the performance or range (~20 miles) so
my last smart glider will be at least a 120vt system. I just have to figure
where to put the batteries since there is very little space under the car
maybe 7 batteries there and 5 above the engine bay.
I also have my electric alfa truck on another section of the website if you
are interested.
Pedroman
-
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
There should be a spec sheet on the torque value of these nuts. Normally
3/8 grade 5 bolts and nuts could be torque to 35 ft lbs.
On battery connections, you could get by with 10 ft lbs or 100 inch lbs.
If this is the case, then you could end mill the center of the nut to
flatten a area and rough it up with a rotory file so this flat area will fit
the diameter of a hex nut.
Then take large stainless hex nuts and sand one side with a 16 to 36 grit
disc.
There is three types of adhesive that may work to glue these nuts to the top
of the battery nuts.
One is the adhesive that body shops get from a body and paint supply store.
These come in a double tube which mixes the epoxy as it push out with a
special caulking gun design for this adhesive.
Different types of adhesive is for steel to steel, steel to aluminum, steel
to fiberglass, steel to plastic and etc.
You can get it in stainless steel color.
I use this type to assemble my EV panels.
The next type is a compound that machine shops uses, for building up worn
down shafts, can be machine, drill, cut key ways in, and tap. This compound
cost about $300.00 a lb.
I use this type of compound to build up my motor shafts.
The next type and cheapest is JB Weld in the 24 hour type, not the 5 minute
type. To test JB Weld out, I would glue a nut onto another nut and let set
for over 24 hours or more.
Applied a small bead of adhesive on one surface and press the nut into
position. You will have a little glue come out. Next, using a bowl of
soapy water, wet you finger and wipe the joint which smoothes any compound
in a nice smooth joint.
It looks good if you use the aluminum, silver or stainless steel color type
which the machine shop compound or the body shop epoxy adhesive is used.
The JB Weld will be a dark gray color.
Put the bottom nut in a vise, and see what torque it takes before it break
away.
If you can take it up the recommended torque value of the battery nut, then
it should work.
It it goes above 35 ft lbs, than it should be ok for your battery nuts,
which the 3/8 studs may only be rated for this value.
A normal 3/8 bolt will shear at 50 ft lbs. We use special double headed
bolts to bolt electrical buss bars together. The top bolt head is a 1/2
inch bolt size, but with a 3/8 inch shank. We than tighten these bolts
until the the top hex head breaks off, which is at the 50 ft lb range.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Eric Poulsen" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: BB600 odd nuts + 40 miles on first run!
> Eric,
>
> These were just another surplus purchase for the guys in the BB600
> yahoo group. I jumped in first. BB600's don't usually come in a pack
> like this. They come as single cells. So I have a bonus with buss bars
> and stainless milspec box, a cap tool, etc. There were 12 packs and I
> got all 12. Started out as 21 packs, but the military swooped in a
> took them even after I paid for all 21 units. Ah well.
>
> Gents,
>
> Thanks for the ideas. Something will work. Keep them coming!! It's a
> shame these nuts can't be used as they are also nickel plated.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Where did you get the bb600's from? Are there more?
> >
> > -- Eric
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > The BB600 packs I got are 19 to a box. The box is something special,
> > > but the nuts that hold the buss bars in place are not one I've seen
> > > before. Here is a link. Please tell me what that nut it is so I
> can get
> > > a socket for it.
> > >
> > > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/nuts2.jpg
> > >
> > > These BB600 cells are also different in that the normal 10-32 screws
> > > have been replaced with a 10-32 to 3/8" stud-standoff. You can see it
> > > under the buss bar. Maybe for higher current. The buss bars and nuts
> > > are covered with Cosmolene. So that's why they have a brown tint to
> > > them.
> > >
> > > Tonight these cells on their first journey out took the USE truck 40
> > > miles on 38ah at night, headlights and radio on, 66 degree ambient,
> > > medium lead foot, 34-40mph in stop and go traffic with lots of stop
> > > lights. Awesome first run! I think I can get 50 miles. So for a little
> > > more weight the truck has well over doubled it's mileage on only 228
> > > cells. There are 24 more going into the box, but they just arrived
> > > today.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Sep 2006 at 21:33, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Volkswagen | Fox 4-door | 2203
>
I used to think those funky 2-door VW Fox wagons would be great conversion
candidates. IIRC, the engines were laid out like old Passats, that is, with
the engine set longitudinally and the transaxle underneath, so there'd be
lots of room for a big, long DC motor if you were so inclined. Also there'd
be plenty of room behind the seats to make it a lead sled for long range.
But not many were sold, and it's been too many years, so they're just about
all gone from the road. I don't think they were very well made in the first
place, but I might be wrong.
Also, when I sat in one, I realized that they weren't too great for tall
people; I'm 6' tall and my head brushed the headliner.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Sep 2006 at 20:41, Gordon Niessen wrote:
> The smart car seems pretty dumb to me.
>
> Now if it were electric I'd look at it.
Ditto. I personally think they're not especially attractive, but make it
the way it was supposed to be and I'd be very interested.
The way it was supposed to be? Yep. Swatch originally intended the Smart
to be an ELECTRIC grocery getter. They designed it with room under the
floor for a battery. They also sized the rear compartment to fit a case of
beer - no joke.
Swatch just about went broke on the project. Diamler bought the design,
slapped a tiny ICE into it, and put it up for sale.
I've never quite forgiven Diamler for that, just as I haven't forgiven VW
for ditching the diesel electric TRUE (plugin) hybrid design they originally
proposed over 10 years ago for the New Beetle.
At any rate, the Smart should lend itself very well to EV conversion. Seems
to me that a small lithium battery under the floor would be an excellent, if
rather pricey, strategy.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Sep 2006 at 20:23, Richard Acuti wrote:
> Replace them (C-van foam bumpers) with tubes perhaps...
About 15 years ago I knew a fellow with a Comuta-Car who replaced his
damaged front bumper (foam over a >wood< core!) with a sort of "bumper-like
sculpture" made of black plastic drain pipe. It didn't look too bad, but I
can't imagine that this bumper would have taken much of a bump.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
imho such car need lithium pack to be a good EV conversion, a flat box under
the car and another
one under the hood for a 120V100Ah batterie would give you 100 miles as good
performances.
Lipoly is the key here.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 8:46 PM
Subject: Smart and EV
> Hello all concerning the smart car. We bought three gliders a couple of
> years ago and I'm now down to my last car.
>
> I have the fourtwo manual pictures on our website for the smart 2002
model.
> Similar model through 1998 - 2006.
>
> What I don't have are the pics from our first 72vt conversion which we
just
> sold. I'll call the guy to get pictures. My server bit the big one where
all
> our documents are stored and yes we had no backup that worked. That's what
I
> get for paying a friend (ex) to be our part-time IT guy.
>
> We we able to build a simple box that was hung under the floor that held 6
> optima marine batts. Not happy with the performance or range (~20 miles)
so
> my last smart glider will be at least a 120vt system. I just have to
figure
> where to put the batteries since there is very little space under the car
> maybe 7 batteries there and 5 above the engine bay.
>
> I also have my electric alfa truck on another section of the website if
you
> are interested.
>
> Pedroman
>
> -
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's a blog out there where one driver (Canada, of course) got 100MPG on
a single trip. (Converted to US gallons... his goal.) This is mostly on the
smaller highways. On Imperial gallons, he regularly hit that mark... but I
think that's higher than the average driver is seeing. But this isn't the
cars that are in the US.
Zap brings them in and works them over to meet US standards. These are gas
powered and who knows what they do to get them to pass. I do recall that DC
said there wasn't room for a fume recycling canister in the engine
compartment... the 700cc engine already filling that space. <g>
In 2008, Penske will be selling the cars, imported straight from the mfgr.
DC has made these cars a bit larger and heavier, with a bigger engine... and
they have qualified for sale in the US w/o mods. There is talk about putting
VW engines in them to reduce costs. (Same engine as in the Lupos.)
They do look mighty small, when you see one on the US freeways, tucked
between a couple semis. Batts might fit. They don't look smaller than the
Xebra, and that has 6 batts tucked away. (It should make a decent in-town
rig, I'd think.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Harris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: SMARTcar on eBay
> I drive a smart and routinely get ~52 mpg (US gallons) and I don't try
> very hard. I have seen the numbers on one driver who tries and he gets
> 61 mpg mostly highway with some city. 74mpg is hard but probably
> doable, you would have to drive highway and keep the speed around 45 to
> 50 mph to avoid the air resistance. I don't try hard and one major
> section on my commute is about 10km highway at 100kph or 62mph.
>
> I have been running it on mixed diesel / biodiesel for some time now. I
> have wondered if I could drop the power plant and put an electric motor
> in. The whole drive unit seems to be package and I understand the
> dealer just drops it out the bottom for service. It would be neat to
> have a plug and play electric package and just swap the diesel back in
> for long trips. I gotta spend some time and find the service manuals
> for the car some day.
>
> Lawrence
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 1992 Civic DX Hatchback info:
Exterior
Length: 160.2 in. Width: 67 in.
Height: 53 in. Wheel Base: 101.3 in.
Ground Clearance: 5.9 in. Curb Weight: 2178 lbs.
The 4 Door is:
Exterior
Length: 173 in. Width: 67 in.
Height: 54.1 in. Wheel Base: 103.2 in.
Ground Clearance: 5.9 in. Curb Weight: 2275 lbs.
So, yeah 2220 sounds a bit high compared to what Honda says it should be.
Man I'm confused. I thought that Honda weighed around that as Curb weight.
How did you get that info? Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
> 92 Honda Civic DX weighs 2220 stripped of AC, motor,
> radiator, etc.
_________________________________________________________________
Get real-time traffic reports with Windows Live Local Search
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=42.336065~-109.392273&style=r&lvl=4&scene=3712634&trfc=1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
I checked with the two MEs at work and neither of them had seen this
style of nut before. One did mention that it's possible that the
threads are non-standard, and that the nuts may be torqued down so
you'll probably need a good tool fit on the nuts to remove them.
Ralph
Mike Phillips writes:
>
> The BB600 packs I got are 19 to a box. The box is something special,
> but the nuts that hold the buss bars in place are not one I've seen
> before. Here is a link. Please tell me what that nut it is so I can get
> a socket for it.
>
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/nuts2.jpg
>
> These BB600 cells are also different in that the normal 10-32 screws
> have been replaced with a 10-32 to 3/8" stud-standoff. You can see it
> under the buss bar. Maybe for higher current. The buss bars and nuts
> are covered with Cosmolene. So that's why they have a brown tint to
> them.
>
> Tonight these cells on their first journey out took the USE truck 40
> miles on 38ah at night, headlights and radio on, 66 degree ambient,
> medium lead foot, 34-40mph in stop and go traffic with lots of stop
> lights. Awesome first run! I think I can get 50 miles. So for a little
> more weight the truck has well over doubled it's mileage on only 228
> cells. There are 24 more going into the box, but they just arrived
> today.
>
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: Understanding EV design relationships
> On 1 Sep 2006 at 20:23, Richard Acuti wrote:
>
> > Replace them (C-van foam bumpers) with tubes perhaps...
>
> About 15 years ago I knew a fellow with a Comuta-Car who replaced his
> damaged front bumper (foam over a >wood< core!) with a sort of
"bumper-like
> sculpture" made of black plastic drain pipe. It didn't look too bad, but
I
> can't imagine that this bumper would have taken much of a bump.
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
Probably not quite as good as the steel bumpers on the one I saw pix of. He
built steel boxes front and rear and filled them with the batts for the car.
It seemed to server well. <g>
Maybe if the drain pipe were filled with expanding foam? I'd imagine that
should absorb a fair amount of impact if packed fairly tightly.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pictures available of any Item
gimmie a call 707-318-8169
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED](sebastopol)
-30 Zap 12v electric scooter motors...$5 each
I've got about 30....buy more than two and I'll come down in price
I also have lots of small zap scooter parts and a bunch of brand new
belts...also I've got a couple of scooter frames
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I posted about the 30 5 buck Zappy motors in Sebastopol. How much can
these motors take and still be reliable I was thinking of using 4 of them
in a scooter. Any thoughts on how long they might last at 48v. I was
thinking 4 in series then parallel in pairs then totally parallel. Sort of
a turbo mode. It might be over kill. But at 5 bucks each you don't have
much to lose. They were 12v systems orginally. Lawrence.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This may work, or it may simply scratch up the nuts, causing
the nickel plating to become useless (when scratched through).
I could not figure out from looking at the pictures at
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/
if the holes in the nuts are ball-shaped or V-shaped.
In the latter case, you may try to use a piece of thick-walled
steel tube, drill and tap holes at 72 deg intervals around it
(slightly downward to match the 5 nut holes) and use short
steel bolts with V-shaped tip to match up with the holes
(you will need at least 3 bolts to grip the nut securely,
so you would only need to handle one of the bolts to go from
nut to nut, though it may be better to hand-tighten all 5
to initially unlock all nuts when they are tight.)
If the holes are ball-shaped then it could still work the
same way - simply make the tips of the bolts into a ball.
Alternative (and much faster handling) would be to use
heavy duty (slip joint) pliers or an adjustable wrench,
that can take a good force of being rotated with the beak
straight down on the nut.
If it can take that force, you can modify the beak by
welding two balls on one side and a single ball on the
other side of the beak, then grip into the nut's holes
and rotate.
My guess as to why they used such a weird nut is that this is
a MILITARY design. They did not want any of the mechanics to
mess around with the cells or the connections, so they did
what was needed to avoid anybody in the field messing around
with the connections, reversing cells, shorting cells,
blowing things up (where did I hear that before).
Don't you know military mechanics?
Some on the list come pretty close ;-}
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Removing BB600 odd nuts
Here is a link to the socket I was talking about:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&;
pid=00947078000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Sockets&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
it's called a "Gator Grips universal socket" and costs $10
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The tricky part of torquing these nuts is that the stud they are on is
double ended with a 10-32 thread going into the post of the battery.
So I'm still limited to 50 in-lbs no matter what.
I just drew up a pentastar in CAD and will convert it to G-code so it
can be used to cnc the part. Then I'll take a 3/8 drive 9/16" socket
and cut it into a penta-socket. $3 if I fail. I'll have to round all
those edges with a Dremel too. I should look into a 1/2" drive socket
as it will have a thicker wall.
But whatever happens I have to remove 456 nuts!! So it has to work
well and fast. That's why I'm hoping to find the factory tool or a
good substitute.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> There should be a spec sheet on the torque value of these nuts.
Normally
> 3/8 grade 5 bolts and nuts could be torque to 35 ft lbs.
>
> On battery connections, you could get by with 10 ft lbs or 100 inch lbs.
>
> If this is the case, then you could end mill the center of the nut to
> flatten a area and rough it up with a rotory file so this flat area
will fit
> the diameter of a hex nut.
>
> Then take large stainless hex nuts and sand one side with a 16 to 36
grit
> disc.
>
> There is three types of adhesive that may work to glue these nuts to
the top
> of the battery nuts.
>
> One is the adhesive that body shops get from a body and paint supply
store.
> These come in a double tube which mixes the epoxy as it push out with a
> special caulking gun design for this adhesive.
>
> Different types of adhesive is for steel to steel, steel to
aluminum, steel
> to fiberglass, steel to plastic and etc.
>
> You can get it in stainless steel color.
>
> I use this type to assemble my EV panels.
>
>
> The next type is a compound that machine shops uses, for building up
worn
> down shafts, can be machine, drill, cut key ways in, and tap. This
compound
> cost about $300.00 a lb.
>
> I use this type of compound to build up my motor shafts.
>
> The next type and cheapest is JB Weld in the 24 hour type, not the 5
minute
> type. To test JB Weld out, I would glue a nut onto another nut and
let set
> for over 24 hours or more.
>
> Applied a small bead of adhesive on one surface and press the nut into
> position. You will have a little glue come out. Next, using a bowl of
> soapy water, wet you finger and wipe the joint which smoothes any
compound
> in a nice smooth joint.
>
> It looks good if you use the aluminum, silver or stainless steel
color type
> which the machine shop compound or the body shop epoxy adhesive is used.
>
> The JB Weld will be a dark gray color.
>
> Put the bottom nut in a vise, and see what torque it takes before it
break
> away.
>
> If you can take it up the recommended torque value of the battery
nut, then
> it should work.
>
> It it goes above 35 ft lbs, than it should be ok for your battery nuts,
> which the 3/8 studs may only be rated for this value.
>
> A normal 3/8 bolt will shear at 50 ft lbs. We use special double
headed
> bolts to bolt electrical buss bars together. The top bolt head is a
1/2
> inch bolt size, but with a 3/8 inch shank. We than tighten these bolts
> until the the top hex head breaks off, which is at the 50 ft lb range.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 12:04 PM
> Subject: Re: BB600 odd nuts + 40 miles on first run!
>
>
> > Eric,
> >
> > These were just another surplus purchase for the guys in the BB600
> > yahoo group. I jumped in first. BB600's don't usually come in a pack
> > like this. They come as single cells. So I have a bonus with buss bars
> > and stainless milspec box, a cap tool, etc. There were 12 packs and I
> > got all 12. Started out as 21 packs, but the military swooped in a
> > took them even after I paid for all 21 units. Ah well.
> >
> > Gents,
> >
> > Thanks for the ideas. Something will work. Keep them coming!! It's a
> > shame these nuts can't be used as they are also nickel plated.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Eric Poulsen <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Mike,
> > >
> > > Where did you get the bb600's from? Are there more?
> > >
> > > -- Eric
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > > The BB600 packs I got are 19 to a box. The box is something
special,
> > > > but the nuts that hold the buss bars in place are not one I've
seen
> > > > before. Here is a link. Please tell me what that nut it is so I
> > can get
> > > > a socket for it.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/nuts2.jpg
> > > >
> > > > These BB600 cells are also different in that the normal 10-32
screws
> > > > have been replaced with a 10-32 to 3/8" stud-standoff. You can
see it
> > > > under the buss bar. Maybe for higher current. The buss bars
and nuts
> > > > are covered with Cosmolene. So that's why they have a brown
tint to
> > > > them.
> > > >
> > > > Tonight these cells on their first journey out took the USE
truck 40
> > > > miles on 38ah at night, headlights and radio on, 66 degree
ambient,
> > > > medium lead foot, 34-40mph in stop and go traffic with lots of
stop
> > > > lights. Awesome first run! I think I can get 50 miles. So for
a little
> > > > more weight the truck has well over doubled it's mileage on
only 228
> > > > cells. There are 24 more going into the box, but they just arrived
> > > > today.
> > > >
> > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
