EV Digest 5824
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Smart and EV
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Curb Weights
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Rating on GE EV-100
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) NmG dealership in Texas!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) 5000 rpms safe for a 9" ADC?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Car weights and tire pressure
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Car weights and tire pressure
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Removing BB600 odd nuts
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Understanding EV design relationships
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 5000 rpms safe for a 9" ADC?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Removing BB600 odd nuts
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Car weights and tire pressure
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: NmG dealership in Texas!
by Owen Emry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Car weights and tire pressure
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Summary: Re: Roll call: International price comparison
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Removing BB600 odd nuts
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: splined couplers
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: BB600 odd nuts + 40 miles on first run!
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Car weights and tire pressure
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Car weights and tire pressure
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Car weights and tire pressure
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: NmG dealership in Texas!
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Car weights and tire pressure
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 2:46 PM
Subject: Smart and EV
> Hello all concerning the smart car. We bought three gliders a couple of
> years ago and I'm now down to my last car.
>
> I have the fourtwo manual pictures on our website for the smart 2002
model.
> Similar model through 1998 - 2006.
>
> What I don't have are the pics from our first 72vt conversion which we
just
> sold. I'll call the guy to get pictures. My server bit the big one where
all
> our documents are stored and yes we had no backup that worked. That's what
I
> get for paying a friend (ex) to be our part-time IT guy.
>
> We we able to build a simple box that was hung under the floor that held 6
> optima marine batts. Not happy with the performance or range (~20 miles)
so
> my last smart glider will be at least a 120vt system. I just have to
figure
> where to put the batteries since there is very little space under the car
> maybe 7 batteries there and 5 above the engine bay.
>
> I also have my electric alfa truck on another section of the website if
you
> are interested.
>
> Pedroman
>
> - Hi Pedroman an' EVerybody;
The battery stuffing bugaboo? Yeah, that's what bothered me with
meeting a few Smarts. just WHERE can ya get a meaningful amout of led acids
aboard!?Damn car is so SMALL!Maybe Smarts will have to wait for lithiams or
some other light and small battery?
My two cells worth.
Bob
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/436 - Release Date: 9/1/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: Curb Weights
> On 1 Sep 2006 at 21:33, Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> > Volkswagen | Fox 4-door | 2203
> >
>
> I used to think those funky 2-door VW Fox wagons would be great conversion
> candidates. IIRC, the engines were laid out like old Passats, that is,
with
> the engine set longitudinally and the transaxle underneath, so there'd be
> lots of room for a big, long DC motor if you were so inclined. Also
there'd
> be plenty of room behind the seats to make it a lead sled for long range.
>
> But not many were sold, and it's been too many years, so they're just
about
> all gone from the road. I don't think they were very well made in the
first
> place, but I might be wrong.
>
> Also, when I sat in one, I realized that they weren't too great for tall
> people; I'm 6' tall and my head brushed the headliner.
> Hi EVerybody;
> Yeah! The foxes were nice, but were built for Midgets!And I guess not
very well built, as they are scarser than Rabbits! In Ct you never see them
anymore!Had though of them for a doner, but they didn't stick around long
enough.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know the voltage / current rating for the GE EV-100, p/n 41757-02?
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myers Motors has a new dealership in Austin Texas!
As of Wednesday, August 23, 2006, Electric Vehicles of Austin acquired
dealership of it's first highway electric vehicle, the NmG (formerly Sparrow).
Their first NmG sale occurred on August 31 - to my wife, Heidi. :)
Since the NmG became available, and since she didn't want to wait for me to
finish converting our Fiero (and besides, after the Fiero is converted, we
would still only have one EV) and after a test drive she fell in love with it,
she
had to have one! So now we will have two EVs. I added my approval after
performing a burnout test. :)
She ordered it in yellow and is working on art work to "pretty it up." It is
a hard wait -- six to eight weeks delivery.
After crunching some numbers, the $200+ she pumps into her current daily
driver each month will make the payments on the NmG and the range should fit
just
fine.
It's going to be a great year!!
Ken
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been using 4500 rpms as my limit but I'm wondering if 5k for
cruising around would be safe in the long term for this motor. If it were I
could do most all of my trip in 2nd gear and not have to shift so much into
3rd. 3rd is difficult becuase my tranny is failing and my clutch no longer
functions.
I'm driving the truck into the ground but I don't want to wreck the 9"
motor. My trips last about 20 minutes twice a day everyday.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As we have been talking about car weights recently I was lloking for
some kind of indication as to what tire pressure I should be running not
that my conversion is well above stock curb weight.
I found this little tidbit
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0208scc_tire_pressure_guide/index.html
"...In the event that you aren't able to find a recommendation for your
car, or the tires on your car are so different from those that were
originally fitted from the manufacturer as to be incomparable, we
received the following rule of thumb from Oscar Pereda, an engineer for
BFGoodrich. He calls it a "realistic starting point," saying it has
never been just right, but is a good place to start. The rule is:
(Vehicle Weight in lb/100) + 2 psi at heavier end + 2 psi all around if
suspension and alignment are stock.
Example: Stock 911, 3,000 lb.
(3000/100) = 30 psi
Add 2 psi all around = 32 psi
Add 2 psi to heavy end = 34 psi at rear
With modified suspension, the result is 30 psi front, 32 psi rear...."
He goes on to talk about how to adjust using a pyrometer, which is great
advice, I have done that, but wanted to get an idea of what tire
pressure range to purchase.
Let me see... 4050lb 300zx a little heavier in back.
4050/100 = 40.5 +2 and + 4 42.5 front and 44.5 back. Looking at
the amount of bulge, I think this is low. Gotta check percent deflection
as Roland has described.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Consumer Guide rates them @ 2200 lbs before stripping them down... if I'm
reading this correctly.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2049/Act/usedcarreviewspecs/
(That's a good spot to find specs on many cars.)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@efn.org>
> Cc: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
>
>
> > Man I'm confused. I thought that Honda weighed around that as Curb
> weight.
> > How did you get that info? Lawrence Rhodes.......
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: Cuirb weights. Lets start a list.
> >
> >
> > > 92 Honda Civic DX weighs 2220 stripped of AC, motor,
> > > radiator, etc.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can test the pressure somewhat by this little trick: Apply a stripe of
paint to the tread and let it dry. Now watch your tires for the next few
miles. You'll see it wear in one place over another. If the tires were new
(or evenly worn) this should give an idea about how they'll wear over time.
If it wears in the middle, it's overinflated. On the steering end, it also
gives an idea of how that's doing. In the perfect scenario, the paint should
wear off about even on all 4 tires.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:15 PM
Subject: Car weights and tire pressure
> Example: Stock 911, 3,000 lb.
> (3000/100) = 30 psi
> Add 2 psi all around = 32 psi
> Add 2 psi to heavy end = 34 psi at rear
> With modified suspension, the result is 30 psi front, 32 psi rear...."
>
> He goes on to talk about how to adjust using a pyrometer, which is great
> advice, I have done that, but wanted to get an idea of what tire
> pressure range to purchase.
>
> Let me see... 4050lb 300zx a little heavier in back.
>
> 4050/100 = 40.5 +2 and + 4 42.5 front and 44.5 back. Looking at
> the amount of bulge, I think this is low. Gotta check percent deflection
> as Roland has described.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The holes are round like they were meant to hold half of a ball
bearing. I don't have access to a welder. Buy, machine or turn the
tool is about what I have available. At least for this weekend.
The problem is there is hardly any clearance around the nuts. That's
why I'm pretty sure the tool is a socket of some sort.
The nut is .750" in diameter at it's base. Each of the 5 holes is .187
in diameter.
There are definitely some militant mechanics here ;)
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This may work, or it may simply scratch up the nuts, causing
> the nickel plating to become useless (when scratched through).
>
> I could not figure out from looking at the pictures at
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/
> if the holes in the nuts are ball-shaped or V-shaped.
> In the latter case, you may try to use a piece of thick-walled
> steel tube, drill and tap holes at 72 deg intervals around it
> (slightly downward to match the 5 nut holes) and use short
> steel bolts with V-shaped tip to match up with the holes
> (you will need at least 3 bolts to grip the nut securely,
> so you would only need to handle one of the bolts to go from
> nut to nut, though it may be better to hand-tighten all 5
> to initially unlock all nuts when they are tight.)
>
> If the holes are ball-shaped then it could still work the
> same way - simply make the tips of the bolts into a ball.
> Alternative (and much faster handling) would be to use
> heavy duty (slip joint) pliers or an adjustable wrench,
> that can take a good force of being rotated with the beak
> straight down on the nut.
> If it can take that force, you can modify the beak by
> welding two balls on one side and a single ball on the
> other side of the beak, then grip into the nut's holes
> and rotate.
>
> My guess as to why they used such a weird nut is that this is
> a MILITARY design. They did not want any of the mechanics to
> mess around with the cells or the connections, so they did
> what was needed to avoid anybody in the field messing around
> with the connections, reversing cells, shorting cells,
> blowing things up (where did I hear that before).
> Don't you know military mechanics?
> Some on the list come pretty close ;-}
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 11:46 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Removing BB600 odd nuts
>
>
> Here is a link to the socket I was talking about:
>
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&;
> pid=00947078000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Sockets&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
> it's called a "Gator Grips universal socket" and costs $10
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heyyyyyyyyyyyy......now there's an idea.
Ok first, the Comuta VAN bumpers are black foam adhesived to a square,
hollow, metal tube. There's no wood (thank goodness).
Behind the bumpers, and sort of inside the body are large, black cylinders
filled with something that are meant to absorb an impact. They are installed
front and rear. There are also aluminum braces next to them for the same
thing...they make sort of a "crumple zone".
NO I'm not defending Comuter Vehicles' crash-worthiness, I'm just saying
there's more there than most people know about.
Basically, I could strip off all the foam and cut a length of black PVC pipe
in half, lengthwise and bolt it to the remaining square metal tube. The
rounded face of the pipe would be more aerodynamic and last forever and
would probably look better than the foam.
Other folks have discovered that old VW Rabbit bumpers bolt on well but the
object here is aerodynamics and a metal bumper would be square, and just add
weight.
Rich
'81 Comuta Van
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 15:28:55 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Understanding EV design relationships
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body
On 1 Sep 2006 at 20:23, Richard Acuti wrote:
Replace them (C-van foam bumpers) with tubes perhaps...
About 15 years ago I knew a fellow with a Comuta-Car who replaced his
damaged front bumper (foam over a >wood< core!) with a sort of "bumper-like
sculpture" made of black plastic drain pipe. It didn't look too bad, but I
can't imagine that this bumper would have taken much of a bump.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
_________________________________________________________________
Got something to buy, sell or swap? Try Windows Live Expo
ttp://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW, we cruise 8" ADCs to 6K RPM w/ no adverse
effects (happens @ 40 mph in first in a Civvy.
--- Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been using 4500 rpms as my limit but I'm
> wondering if 5k for cruising around would be safe in
> the long term for this motor. If it were I could do
> most all of my trip in 2nd gear and not have to
> shift so much into 3rd. 3rd is difficult becuase my
> tranny is failing and my clutch no longer
> functions.
> I'm driving the truck into the ground but I
> don't want to wreck the 9" motor. My trips last
> about 20 minutes twice a day everyday.
> Thanks,
> Mark Hastings
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Since you need to do so many nuts - a much faster way to
simulate a tool with "spring loaded ball-fitting thingies"
would be to get a short lenght of thick walled steel tube
that fit over the nut, get some hardened steel rod that
has at least the OD of the ball-shaped holes,
turn 3 or 5 short (1/2") lengths of this rod at one end
to fit perfectly into the holes (turn it, then cut it off),
drill 5 holes in the tube to exactly fit the rods, mating
the holes in the nut.
To unscrew the nuts, there will be considerable rotational
force, so you need to have a handle on the tube (like with
some wrenches: a large hole through, so you can use a rod
to create torque) but there is almost no outward force, as
the vertical hole walls will allow the rods (balls) to stay
in place with very little force. You could push them in
with two fingers or with a thin leaf spring around them.
When you hit the rear of the rods with a punch or screwdriver
so they do not fall through the holes in the tube, you have
your automatic tool to handle these nuts.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:09 PM
To: Cor van de Water
Subject: Re: Removing BB600 odd nuts
The holes are round like they were meant to hold half of a ball
bearing. I don't have access to a welder. Buy, machine or turn the
tool is about what I have available. At least for this weekend.
The problem is there is hardly any clearance around the nuts. That's
why I'm pretty sure the tool is a socket of some sort.
The nut is .750" in diameter at it's base. Each of the 5 holes is .187
in diameter.
There are definitely some militant mechanics here ;)
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This may work, or it may simply scratch up the nuts, causing
> the nickel plating to become useless (when scratched through).
>
> I could not figure out from looking at the pictures at
> http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/
> if the holes in the nuts are ball-shaped or V-shaped.
> In the latter case, you may try to use a piece of thick-walled
> steel tube, drill and tap holes at 72 deg intervals around it
> (slightly downward to match the 5 nut holes) and use short
> steel bolts with V-shaped tip to match up with the holes
> (you will need at least 3 bolts to grip the nut securely,
> so you would only need to handle one of the bolts to go from
> nut to nut, though it may be better to hand-tighten all 5
> to initially unlock all nuts when they are tight.)
>
> If the holes are ball-shaped then it could still work the
> same way - simply make the tips of the bolts into a ball.
> Alternative (and much faster handling) would be to use
> heavy duty (slip joint) pliers or an adjustable wrench,
> that can take a good force of being rotated with the beak
> straight down on the nut.
> If it can take that force, you can modify the beak by
> welding two balls on one side and a single ball on the
> other side of the beak, then grip into the nut's holes
> and rotate.
>
> My guess as to why they used such a weird nut is that this is
> a MILITARY design. They did not want any of the mechanics to
> mess around with the cells or the connections, so they did
> what was needed to avoid anybody in the field messing around
> with the connections, reversing cells, shorting cells,
> blowing things up (where did I hear that before).
> Don't you know military mechanics?
> Some on the list come pretty close ;-}
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 11:46 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Removing BB600 odd nuts
>
>
> Here is a link to the socket I was talking about:
>
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&;
> pid=00947078000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Sockets&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
>
> it's called a "Gator Grips universal socket" and costs $10
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
This formula looks close, but as the vehicle weight increases its seems to
get off a little.
My fully loaded EV comes in at 7100 lbs, so the ball park figure would be 74
lbs in rear and 72 lbs in front.
I could do that as where my new Pirelli tires have a maximum PSI of 85 lbs
at 2800 lbs load per wheel.
I found that the rears have a 5 percent deflection rate at 2350 lbs @ 65psi
at each tire.
The fronts are set at 55psi for the same 5 percent deflection.
5% x 7 inch height of the tire side walls is 0.35 inch or the tire deflects
to 6.65 of a inch.
In a smaller side wall tire, you can still maintain the 0.35 inch deflection
as the percentage increase in a smaller side wall.
Its is best not to go over 10 percent.
This is a very harsh ride in a standard suspension system, but I have a Air
Ride system, that makes it a soft ride.
In the winter time, I lower the tires another 10 psi, because we are riding
on ice streets. At that lower pressure, I cannot spin the tires as they
feel they are gear to the streets.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 5:15 PM
Subject: Car weights and tire pressure
> As we have been talking about car weights recently I was lloking for
> some kind of indication as to what tire pressure I should be running not
> that my conversion is well above stock curb weight.
>
> I found this little tidbit
> http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0208scc_tire_pressure_guide/index.html
>
> "...In the event that you aren't able to find a recommendation for your
> car, or the tires on your car are so different from those that were
> originally fitted from the manufacturer as to be incomparable, we
> received the following rule of thumb from Oscar Pereda, an engineer for
> BFGoodrich. He calls it a "realistic starting point," saying it has
> never been just right, but is a good place to start. The rule is:
>
> (Vehicle Weight in lb/100) + 2 psi at heavier end + 2 psi all around if
> suspension and alignment are stock.
>
> Example: Stock 911, 3,000 lb.
> (3000/100) = 30 psi
> Add 2 psi all around = 32 psi
> Add 2 psi to heavy end = 34 psi at rear
> With modified suspension, the result is 30 psi front, 32 psi rear...."
>
> He goes on to talk about how to adjust using a pyrometer, which is great
> advice, I have done that, but wanted to get an idea of what tire
> pressure range to purchase.
>
> Let me see... 4050lb 300zx a little heavier in back.
>
> 4050/100 = 40.5 +2 and + 4 42.5 front and 44.5 back. Looking at
> the amount of bulge, I think this is low. Gotta check percent deflection
> as Roland has described.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After crunching some numbers, the $200+ she pumps into her current daily
driver each month will make the payments on the NmG and the range should fit just
fine.
How does she manage to spend $200 each month on fuel without driving more than
30 miles per day? Does she drive an H2? :-)
-Owen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NOTE that in general car manufacturers specify recommended
tire pressure much lower than the tire manufacturers,
because the car's handling and performance (smooth ride,
stick to road) is better at lower pressure.
Unfortunately (as certain Ford Explorer owners discovered)
this also reduces the margin of error on tire pressure.
In general, you can pump the tires much higher than the
car manufacturer's recommendation and only get a little
harsher ride, while gaining lower resistance and better
wear (some recommendations are so low that they will lead
to excessive edge wear - one reason I have my Prius'
tires up to 45 PSI instead of the recommended 32.
My truck (4880 lbs) runs at 50 PSI for minimal friction.
Most EVs will never wear their tires before they are
dry-rotted from age, as long as they are well aligned.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 4:16 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Car weights and tire pressure
As we have been talking about car weights recently I was lloking for
some kind of indication as to what tire pressure I should be running not
that my conversion is well above stock curb weight.
I found this little tidbit
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0208scc_tire_pressure_guide/index.htm
l
"...In the event that you aren't able to find a recommendation for your
car, or the tires on your car are so different from those that were
originally fitted from the manufacturer as to be incomparable, we
received the following rule of thumb from Oscar Pereda, an engineer for
BFGoodrich. He calls it a "realistic starting point," saying it has
never been just right, but is a good place to start. The rule is:
(Vehicle Weight in lb/100) + 2 psi at heavier end + 2 psi all around if
suspension and alignment are stock.
Example: Stock 911, 3,000 lb.
(3000/100) = 30 psi
Add 2 psi all around = 32 psi
Add 2 psi to heavy end = 34 psi at rear
With modified suspension, the result is 30 psi front, 32 psi rear...."
He goes on to talk about how to adjust using a pyrometer, which is great
advice, I have done that, but wanted to get an idea of what tire
pressure range to purchase.
Let me see... 4050lb 300zx a little heavier in back.
4050/100 = 40.5 +2 and + 4 42.5 front and 44.5 back. Looking at
the amount of bulge, I think this is low. Gotta check percent deflection
as Roland has described.
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G'day All
Summary of responses received:
OK, to start with I made a stuff-up on the litre/US Gallon comparison, I
hope Ive picked up any errors that this caused, thanks to Steve Love for
the correction: The 4.2 liters I stated is an imperial British gallon. An
American gallon is 3.785 liters.
I know there are listees in many more countries than those who responded,
plus if there are any who can fill in the blanks of the table, that'd be
good. I know this is a waste of BW, but it is no more so than some other
threads and is still interesting.
Aus$1.00 = US$0.73
Euro1.00 = US$1.28
GB£1.00 = US$0.57
Petrol/US Gallon, Electricity/kWh,
(Hopefully this table is narrow enough not to line wrap)
Petrol | kWh | Bulk |Orbital|Trojan | Source
Australia $3.87 $0.13 $0.10 $182 $160 James Massey
England $6.51 $0.15 $0.065 John Luck
Canada $3.86 $0.05 Mike Ellis
France $6.89 $0.13 Phillipe Borges
Scotland $6.60 $0.15 $236 $187(*1)Evan Tuer
US:
Idaho $2.98 $0.05 John Bryan
Montana $3.01 $0.10 $98/16 $68/79 Roland Wiench
Texas $2.85 $0.073 Matthew Milliron
WA $3.00 $0.08 $150 $100 Paul G
The "winner" is: Phillipe, in France depending on battery costs. Mike
Ellis, John Bryan and Paul G all get good electricity prices but the lower
fuel price doesn't help the battery costs.
==============
Tasmania, Australia: Road tax around US$400/year, including motor accident
(health) insurance. No incentives (Federal govt just brought in a Aus2k
incentive for lpg conversions). Power is mostly Hydro, industries are
timber and mining, plus a smattering of world-class niche industries (such
as high-speed ferries, fish farming and some special-application
electronics) and the usual spread of urban support industries.
==============
England: No Road tax payable - average car pays $220 per yr. All at $1.81 =
£1 John Luck
(*1) To be fair, these are US imported batteries and probably not
representative, Trojans are not widely used over here despite the large
Golf industry
==============
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Battery costs comparable to those in the US. No economic incentives. Mike Ellis
==============
France: ICE fuel is around 1,42euros/litre = $2,39AU/litre = US$1.82/litre,
x 3.785 = $6.89US/Gal
and not enough expensive imho...
EV fuel is around 0,10 euros/kwh. I definitely love my EVs. Phillipe Borges
==============
Scotland: No annual road tax required for EVs (otherwise up to £180/year).
Avoid congestion charge and some free parking in London. Evan Tuer
==============
Idaho, USA: Gasoline is $2.98 per gallon. I haven't bought any in ages, but
while driving the EV, I notice that it's still quite popular.
Electricity is $0.05 per kWh, I have a hydro dam 5 miles away. My utility
company petitioned to lower their prices a little this year and it was
approved.
Sorry I don't have the prices of Exide Orbitals or Trojan Teakettles, but I
would bet that these power rates may be the cheapest around. John Bryan
==============
Here is some data from Great Falls, Montana, USA which is known as the
electric city.
The economy is agriculture, wood products, minerals (copper), oil
production and electrical power production.
Economics incentive is a feel good difference for the cost of energy per
mile which is three times cheaper for me. Otherwise conversion cost for a
full size vehicle far exceeds the cost of my ICE, but the EV has outlast
the ICE by 20 years.
There is no road tax. For a classic vehicle, you can purchase a annual
license fee, or a one time permanent license for life which I did for
$125.00 Roland Wiench
==============
Lubbock Texas USA - Agriculture/oil and gas/medical
What/if any economic incentives and what are they worth: I received a one
time tax credit from the federal government on my 2005 taxes for the
purchase of the car. About $350. Matthew Milliron
==============
What economy/country/state are you in: Everett WA (about 15 miles north of
Seattle)
What/if any economic incentives and what are they worth: None
Lastly, for Bruce Parmenter's Big Mac price comparison: $2.69 at my local
McDonald's (plus 8.3% sales tax) Paul G.
==============
Regards
[Technik] James
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> To unscrew the nuts, there will be considerable rotational
> force, so you need to have a handle on the tube (like with
> some wrenches: a large hole through, so you can use a rod
> to create torque) but there is almost no outward force, as
> the vertical hole walls will allow the rods (balls) to stay
> in place with very little force. You could push them in
> with two fingers or with a thin leaf spring around them.
> When you hit the rear of the rods with a punch or screwdriver
> so they do not fall through the holes in the tube, you have
> your automatic tool to handle these nuts.
>
I guess you wouldn't have enough room for the "Idiot's Guide to VWs"
method of a hammer and dull chisel, or a really strong vise grip and a
pipe for leverage...
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Roger,
They do have a "enter stock # from catalog" section on their page, but
their shipping page only has Canadian provinces in a pull-down for
destination.
The hub-city one could work, but I need to find a distributor on their
website.
--Eric
Roger Stockton wrote:
Eric Poulsen wrote:
I ordered one of those GE series wound motors from Surplus
Center, and it has a male 1.25" 14T splined shaft. Finding
internally splined couplers / hubs / sprockets to mate up to
this thing is proving to be really difficult, at least via
web searches. Anyone have a source that they _know_ carries
this sort of thing?
p/n 0332-00034 on this page looks like what you want:
<http://catalogs.hubcityinc.com/farmrev/nonPTOproducts.html#4>
Or, for CAD$12.99, p/n 3840485 (at the bottom of p97):
<http://65.110.80.25/pdfs/gas-CAN.pdf>
(This is from Princess Auto
<http://www.princessauto.com/PAcountry.cfm?CTRY=CAN&INF=home>, but their
online searching sucks, so it seems you need to download the appropriate
catalog .pdf and use the mail-order form in the catalog if you want to
order from them).
Cheers,
Roger.
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Dave,
I didn't mention it because I had simply assumed that they would be
replaced with something normal =) That's why most of the methods
mentioned are destructive.
-- Eric
David O'Neel wrote:
One more option Eric did not mention:
Replace those goofy nuts with regular flange nuts (or other more
appropriate
fastener), once you get them off. Obviously they are a specialty item,
which
usually means money in the long run. What happens when you lose one, or
strip one, or cross-thread one? What happens when you lose or break your
special/expensive/custom tool? You will have to do some research to
find an
exact replacement if your source will not replace them. It appears those
nuts are designed to have a security feature, same as the square bit
screws
used to in public restrooms, to prevent theft and vandalism. If you don't
need that feature, replace them.
I am a manufacturing engineer, so when I see something like this it
makes me
cringe. If one of my design engineers came to me with something like
this he
would at least get a good chuckle out of me. Why make things more
complicated than they have to be? Unless there is a specific reason to
use
that exact feature, don't.
In order to appreciate the reasoning for using those specific nuts, you
might want to call the manufacturer or vendor and ask them.
I promise I am not trying to be negative. I just like things to be
easier in
the long run..
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Wow... I hadn't heard of tires with that sort of pressure before. I should
guess this is due to the new stronger belts in tires. I hear the next US
requirement will probably be warning signals for low air pressure. (For a
few SUV owners who wouldn't check their tires, we'll all pay more for new
cars?)
The size of the tire (load carrying capacity) throws the figure off a bit.
But, as they say, that's a starting place. In a similar plane, the Sidekick
had very oversized tires. (Tires designed to carry twice the weight of the
vehicle.) If you aired them similar to the tire mfgr's recs, the trucklet
handled like a pig on slick surfaces. Dropped to factory pressure and the
tires lasted until the rotted on the rims. <g> Whatever the calculation
recommends, I would exceed the max pressure on the sidewall... and make sure
they aren't over 6 years old.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Car weights and tire pressure
> I could do that as where my new Pirelli tires have a maximum PSI of 85 lbs
> at 2800 lbs load per wheel.
>
> Roland
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My old tires were Dunlap 8 ply 235/75/15R with a load rating of 2650 at
65PSI. They were air up to the to 65PSI back in 1985, and I ran them until
this week.
The new thread depth was 0.385 and today they are at 0.245. That's only a
1/8 inch wear!!!
They were a anti-ozone type and there was not weather check.
These tires became very stiff, which is cause by the age heavy nylon belt.
The tires would develop a flat spot normally at -20 F. but it is happening
at any temperature.
It use to take only 8 INCH LBS of force to move the EV on a flat smooth
floor while its in 1st gear.
So far, I have only found two companies that make this tire in a 15 inch
with at load rating of 2340 lbs at 65 psi or 2800 lbs at 85 psi, which is
the Pirelli and GoodYear.
These are all weather type design for SUB's and heavy cars.
Otherwise, you would have to go to a 18 or 20 inch wheel that is also rated
at this load rating to fit everybody else tires.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: Car weights and tire pressure
> Wow... I hadn't heard of tires with that sort of pressure before. I should
> guess this is due to the new stronger belts in tires. I hear the next US
> requirement will probably be warning signals for low air pressure. (For a
> few SUV owners who wouldn't check their tires, we'll all pay more for new
> cars?)
>
> The size of the tire (load carrying capacity) throws the figure off a bit.
> But, as they say, that's a starting place. In a similar plane, the
> Sidekick
> had very oversized tires. (Tires designed to carry twice the weight of the
> vehicle.) If you aired them similar to the tire mfgr's recs, the trucklet
> handled like a pig on slick surfaces. Dropped to factory pressure and the
> tires lasted until the rotted on the rims. <g> Whatever the calculation
> recommends, I would exceed the max pressure on the sidewall... and make
> sure
> they aren't over 6 years old.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 6:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Car weights and tire pressure
>
>
> > I could do that as where my new Pirelli tires have a maximum PSI of 85
> > lbs
> > at 2800 lbs load per wheel.
> >
> > Roland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Sep 2006 at 20:11, Michael Perry wrote:
> (For a few
> SUV owners who wouldn't check their tires, we'll all pay more for new cars?)
I don't really have a problem with this. I'd be willing to pay a hundred
bucks or so more for a tire pressure monitor. It really makes a difference
in your range and electricity cost per mile (or fuel efficiency if it's a
gasser). I've been surprised several times when I had a tire that abruptly
started losing air.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Let's hope that your experience turns out well with timely delivery of
the car and few or no serious hassles getting it financed, licensed,
insured,
serviced and repaired.
$200 per month won't cover payments on a $25000 car.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 2:43 PM
Subject: NmG dealership in Texas!
Myers Motors has a new dealership in Austin Texas!
As of Wednesday, August 23, 2006, Electric Vehicles of Austin acquired
dealership of it's first highway electric vehicle, the NmG (formerly
Sparrow).
Their first NmG sale occurred on August 31 - to my wife, Heidi. :)
Since the NmG became available, and since she didn't want to wait for me
to
finish converting our Fiero (and besides, after the Fiero is converted, we
would still only have one EV) and after a test drive she fell in love with
it, she
had to have one! So now we will have two EVs. I added my approval after
performing a burnout test. :)
She ordered it in yellow and is working on art work to "pretty it up." It
is
a hard wait -- six to eight weeks delivery.
After crunching some numbers, the $200+ she pumps into her current daily
driver each month will make the payments on the NmG and the range should
fit just
fine.
It's going to be a great year!!
Ken
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The easiest way to check for tire pressure differences is to
count the pulses from the ABS sensors on all wheels, so in
theory the added cost is minimal (an extra routine in the
ABS computer) and consists of an extra indicator on the dash.
Someone in the Prius_Technical_Stuff Yahoo group has measured
the difference in rotational pulses for pressure differences
and he found (IIRC) 1% difference when pressure went from his
preferred 44 PSI to the minimum 32 PSI.
In curves the rotational difference is much larger, but both
front and back wheels will show a difference.
The computer can take measurements and compare both front and
back and the only moment that it will not detect a problem is
when all wheels have the same loss of pressure.
This problem is not very likely to occur, so using the ABS
sensors is a good and reliable way to detect problems with
tire pressure loss.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 9:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Car weights and tire pressure
On 2 Sep 2006 at 20:11, Michael Perry wrote:
> (For a few
> SUV owners who wouldn't check their tires, we'll all pay more for new
cars?)
I don't really have a problem with this. I'd be willing to pay a hundred
bucks or so more for a tire pressure monitor. It really makes a difference
in your range and electricity cost per mile (or fuel efficiency if it's a
gasser). I've been surprised several times when I had a tire that abruptly
started losing air.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
