EV Digest 5835
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Worm and Sector Steering
by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT- LCD display
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT- LCD display
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Soccer Mom Mobile
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Trike 'motorcycle'
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: SMARTcar on eBay
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Standarization or modular plugs
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Better Sparrow, Re: NmG dealership in Texas!
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Soccer Mom Mobile
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Soccer Mom Mobile
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Trike 'motorcycle'
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: [uselectricar] Tiger paw tires
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Worm and Sector Steering
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Soccer Mom Mobile
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: [uselectricar] Tiger paw tires
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
HI All,
Thanks for your replies. David, i believe steering boxes come under the
'general ICE automotive problems'. Think about steering alignments, braking,
suspension etc etc. I simply intiated this topic from its application in a
ICE vehicle.
Yeah, the worm and sector steering box is old...Feeling it to be stiff, but
manageable. There seems to be a little bolt on top, not sure whether its the
adjustment bolt...But i heard somewhere you can add oil to the box. There is
lots of signs of leakage, grease all over the box. I will prob just get it
rebuilt.
Cheers
On 07/09/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 6 Sep 2006 at 16:59, Ev Performance (Robert Chew) wrote:
> its a diesel running on veggie oil.
Regrettably, I must point out that this list is not for general ICE
automotive problems, even when the ICE is running on alternative fuels.
There are many, many other more appropriate lists and forums on the
internet. Please post questions about ICE vehicles there rather than
here.
Thanks for your understanding and cooperation with our efforts to keep the
list on topic.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Michael Perry wrote:
>
>> The sell, in Canada, for around $16K, if I hear right.
>
> No, Don Cameron recently pointed out that *used* Smarts are selling, in
> Canada, for CAD$20-28k.
>
> Roger.
As I said... from what I've heard. Most sources have them starting around
$16K, USD... but not so far off. Except this price is supposed to be new
cars.
"Major components are made mostly in Germany but the car is assembled in
France. Though tiny it is considered a premium car and is priced from
$14,000 to about $24,000 Canadian. Three trim levels are available. The
materials, design and workmanship of the Smart Car are truly top drawer."
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/05/31/109354.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> Make sure when you get your buss bars plated, you have them plate a
high
> conductive alloy. Nickel plating will increase the resistance.
>
> I found this out when I install all nickel plated fasteners on my
battery
> links. My copper bars at one time was coated with a very thin frosted
> silvery coating which is a normal coating for buss bars. I don't
have the
> specs on that type of alloy. This coating is normally used in
electrical
> connections which might be a alloy of copper and cadmium which gives
it a
> frosted silvery copper tone.
I think that is what my buss bars and nuts are coasted with. They have
very close to what you describe for the plating surface.
I wish we knew what the plating was!!
>
> Nickel is too high resistance, but has good corrosion resistance.
They are
> good for battery fasteners, but do not use them between the buss
bars and
> the battery terminals.
>
> Copper has too high corrosion factor.
>
> Silver which is a very good conductor but is subject to corrosion.
>
> Gold plating is a little less conductance then silver but it has a high
> resistance to corrosion.
>
> So I used gold plating fasters between my battery post and cadmium
plated
> links, which acts like a bi-metal connection which we used in our
overhead
> line electrical work. It works good.
>
> If we have buss bar links that does not fit the bolt holes just
right, we
> then drill them out a little larger and apply Tinning Butter and
apply a
> little lead to that area, or use a re-plating kit that you can plate
this
> link with any alloy you want.
Is tinning butter just pure tin + flux?
> You can get the plating solutions in the kit, or can purchase them
in large
> bulk from the Fisher Laboratory Scientific Supply Companies.
>
> I found that the contact area makes a good conduction path. After
we remove
> them after years of surface, the surface was still highly polish to
a mirror
> finish.
So plating a polished surface is the best idea? I made my plates from
polished copper for the old lead acid pack. Plating them would make
them a good bet for the Nicads.
>
> You can can this Tinning Butter, Lead sticks, and even Cadmium
plating kits
> from www.eastwoodcompany.com
I haven't looked those guys up in years. Thanks for the reminder.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for that info Roger!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> > I thought electron flow was only on the surface of the conductor.
> > So the plating would be a big deal.
>
> At low frequency the electrons flow through the entire crossection of
> the conductor; it is only at higher frequencies that skin effect comes
> into play, and even then whether or not it is significant at all depends
> on the size (crossection) of the conductor and the frequency of the
> current. If the conductor crossection is sufficiently small, then the
> entire crossection will still be conducting even when the frequency is
> relatively high.
>
> In the case of bus bars, which tend to be relatively thin (like 1/8"),
> skin effect would have no effect until the frequency is high enough that
> the skin depth is less than 1/16".
>
> Here's a practical (if not the most technically involved) reference:
>
> <http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_3/6.html>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So far with the lighter Nimh and Nicad packs my truck is stable with
the regen set to max (26000). No traction loss so far with incredible
decleration. Wet roads will be yet another test of traction. I love
having a lighter truck! From the light, I can beat Pinto's now!
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dave Cover wrote:
> > Holy $#!+, that's a lot of cells in one place. Could you describe
the battery box. I have two
> > battery boxes in the back with 72 cells in each, almost 240 pounds
per box. I'm concerned about
> > the structures ability to handle the weight. I'm no engineer and
I've been fretting over how
> > strong the boxes need to be. One good bump and half the cells go
out the bottom?
>
> The NiCD pack is actually about a thousand pounds lighter than the
> hawker pack it replaces. This can cause some problems with the truck
> being a bit tail light; I have ABS but I would recommend people
consider
> getting the springs checked.
>
> This box is *very* beefy. AL construction, attached to the frame at 6
> points, it's not going anywhere.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good link Shawn. They have the carrier board -
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=600
and some links at the bottom (a forum is at
http://forum.lcdinfo.com/viewtopic.php?t=586 ) for more info...
Now all we need is someone to come up with some drivers and data hook ups so
that we can have one for Bat V, Bat A, Motor V, Motor A, another for wt-hrs
used, wt-hrs/mile, wt-hrs remaining till 80%DOD (or xx%DOD).
Should be fairly simple... a little over my head in terms of electronics, but I
would certainly be willing to coordinate and maybe try and get some seed $$ for
a limited production run if there is a market.
Let me know what you think, lets do it off list...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: OT- LCD display
> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=569
>
> On 9/5/06, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Sorry for OT (and please reply off list):
>>
>> Does anyone know a supplier of a small (1" to
>> 1.5" a side) TFT LCD displays like ones used
>> in today's cell phones?
>>
>> Thanks in advance folks,
>>
>> Victor
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So does Aluminum need to be passivated then? Anodizing makes it non
conductive.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
> > I didn't know Aluminum was that good.
>
> Yes, it is good. Aluminum wire only needs to be 2 sizes bigger than
> copper to have the same resistance (#14 copper = #12 aluminum etc.)
> Since aluminum is about 1/3 the weight, it is actually better than
> copper, pound for pound.
>
> > I thought electron flow was only on the surface of the conductor.
> > So the plating would be a big deal.
>
> That's called the "skin effect". It only applies to AC (not DC, like
> batteries) and it only gets important for really large wires and/or very
> high frequencies. For example, the current at 60hz penetrates about 1/2"
> deep in copper, so your conductors would have to be over 1" in diameter
> to matter.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can do that. In fact I designed a board for a sending unit to collect
battery voltages and current with very high accuracy, and send the data
out on an isolated bus. It builds off of circuits & components I've
already used successfully for this. I have also written plenty of code
for driving an LCD off a microcontroller.
Didn't build it though, I didn't have any actual regulators designed
into it so I wasn't sure if people would be interested.
Danny
Rush wrote:
Good link Shawn. They have the carrier board -
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=600
and some links at the bottom (a forum is at
http://forum.lcdinfo.com/viewtopic.php?t=586 ) for more info...
Now all we need is someone to come up with some drivers and data hook ups so
that we can have one for Bat V, Bat A, Motor V, Motor A, another for wt-hrs
used, wt-hrs/mile, wt-hrs remaining till 80%DOD (or xx%DOD).
Should be fairly simple... a little over my head in terms of electronics, but I
would certainly be willing to coordinate and maybe try and get some seed $$ for
a limited production run if there is a market.
Let me know what you think, lets do it off list...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: OT- LCD display
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=569
On 9/5/06, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry for OT (and please reply off list):
Does anyone know a supplier of a small (1" to
1.5" a side) TFT LCD displays like ones used
in today's cell phones?
Thanks in advance folks,
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I remember these Civic wagons had a tall roof. They were made around 85
to 01. They should be light and easy on the amps. I got a range of 950 to
5k. One was 4wd. They only seat 5 people as far as I know. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Soccer Mom Mobile
>
> I have long been looking at the Honda "Wagovan". Small station wagon/mini
van
> type of thing. Looks like it would be great for battery placement if not a
> little smaller than the Ford Escort. They should be fairly available and
if
> like the rest of the Hondas they seem to hold up well, should be able to
find
> a nice one with a run out engine. Good luck, this is the kind of EV that
we
> really need!! David Chapman.
>
>
> Quoting John Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >
> > I'm looking for a candidate to do serial conversions of a "soccer mom
> > mobile"/ small buisness errand vehicle.
> >
> > I'm considering the Ford Escort Wagons '91-98.
> >
> > Grateful for opinions.
> >
> > - John
> >
> > John Foster
> > Vancouver BC Canada
> >
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> FastQ Communications
> Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Trike 'motorcycle'
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 09:57:31 -0700 (MST)
>Actually, if it's designed properly, single front wheels
>can be just as stable as dual front wheel trikes.
Maybe while they are still but as soon as you start
going any speed and try a tight corner, you quickly find out
the 1ft/2rear is not anywhere near as good as a 2f1r
3wheeler.
2f1r units can handle as good as any sportscars,
better than most in fact.
Where a 1f2r can only get to good handling,
especially braking during a turn.
Jerry Dycus
>
>The main difference is that single front wheels destabilize
>when braking and dual front wheels destabilize when
>accelerating. However, designed properly, you can make it
>so that either vehicle remains stable up to the point where
>the wheels slide. I.e. it will skid before the CoG moves
>enough to flip the vehicle.
>
>Designed poorly, either vehicle can have problems with
>flipping.
>Dual front wheels tend to be easier to design for
>performance, but usually don't have much cargo handling
>capabilty. Single front wheels are easier to design for
>hualing cargo.
>
>> Well the first is that trikes with the single wheel in
>> the front are unstable. Better to have the third wheel in
>> the rear. CG should be roughly at the center of the
>>machine.
>> -Ralph
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael wrote:
> As I said... from what I've heard. Most sources have them
> starting around $16K, USD... but not so far off. Except
> this price is supposed to be new cars.
>
> http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/05/31/109354.html
No problem, but Don's info is current, real-world street prices (the
link above is over a year out of date).
According to the Smart Canada website <http://www.thesmart.ca/>, the
most basic model, with no accessories or options theoretically sells for
CAD$16,700 (plus freight, PDI, taxes, etc.), however, I'm not sure you
could even find such a sample to buy. The base highest trim level coupe
(the "passion") starts at CAD$19,650 (plus freight, etc, etc.) before
you add any accessories or options. The base cabriolet starts at
CAD$19,700, again before any options or accessories or freight, etc.
charges are applied.
USD$16k is about CAD$17,700 today, so as you say, it isn't too far off
the mark for the most basic model's MSRP. I think that Don's
observation that used Smarts are selling for CAD$20-28k is a pretty good
sign that very few (if any) of the basic models have been sold, and that
the actual out-the-door cost may be somewhat above MSRP.... by the time
you add a few options and accessories (upholstery, stereo, cup holder,
etc. ;^) you're well into the CAD$20k range new; these are not
inexpensive little cars!
Did Toyota ever bring the hatchback Echo to the US market?
It is very similar in shape/style to the Smart, yet seats 4 and has a
gas engine (which might make an easier import from Canada should it not
be available in the US either). I know Canadian Electric Vehicles has
converted a 4-door Echo sedan, so have the adapter figured out already
as well as underhood and under rear-seat battery boxes (I don't know if
they have packaged it up and offer it as a kit yet).
It appears that Toyota have replaced the Echo with the Yaris, with a new
3-door hatchback (base CE trim) starting at CAD$13,725; cheaper than a
used Smart and I think would make a more practical conversion candidate.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great idea Jeff,
I've already done that with my emeter, so that it can be plugged and unplugged
quickly, as per Joe Smalley's suggestion ( have a fuse in each of the positive
supply lines marked, "make first,disconnect second" and "disconnect first, make
second" so the meter powers up right.)
Maybe we could find someone to make some of the plugs with pigtails on them, so
all we have to do is connect them and not do the crimping....
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Let us start small, Let us start with a controller plug.
> throttle pot 2
> main contactor 2
> tach 1
> speed 2
> S/P 1
> Reverse 1
> Cruise 1
> 12V 1
> Gnd 1
> Gnd 1
> Gnd 1
>
>
> so maybe 20 connectors? I vote for those plastic or metal AMP round ones
> with the 2 larger pins and the screw type mount.
>
> ie http://www.mouser.com/catalog/627/1003.pdf the 24pin one. These don't
> have to be fully populated so the expense is not that bad.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
Subject: Re: NmG dealership in Texas!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
>> I can answer to that:
>> on their shoes, i would get a look at FreedomEV :^)
When they first bought the Sparrow, I talked to them
about them building a better 3wh EV and how to do it. They
even joined our EVProduction list but only posted once,
early on. Maybe they still lurk ;^D . I don't mind as long
as it gets more EV's out there. There is plenty of room for
many EV builders!!
>>
>> Philippe
>>
>> ---------- Initial Header -----------
>>
>> >From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To : <[email protected]>
>> Cc :
>> Date : Tue, 5 Sep 2006 21:54:41 -0700
>> Subject : RE: NmG dealership in Texas!
>>
>> The current production run was scheduled to be 36
>> vehicles, since they got roughly 68 chassis from the
>> Corbin fire sale. The tools, dies, jigs, molds etc. that
>> Corbin used have been destroyed. So Myers would need to
>reverse-engineer the entire car if they wanted to duplicate
>> it in large quantities. And, if I were them, I would
>> want to make a bunch of changes to the Sparrow design.
>> (So did Corbin, incidentally. They had stopped the
>> Sparrow run and they were redesigning, planning a car
>called the Sparrow II.) So Myers has a big project in
>>front of them.
>> The last time I talked to Dana Myers, about three months
>> ago, I asked him what his business plan was going to be
>> after he sold all of the Sparrow chassis he has in stock.
>> He dodged my question, asking me what I would do if I
>>were in his shoes.
I told them they should make a wider, more stable 2
seat side by side EV if the really wanted market
penetration. I also mentionmed it should be designed for
actually producing it as the Sparrow needs way to many hrs,
a couple hundred+ it seems each to build and one of several
reasons it failed.
I've tried to design the work out of mine. I expect
the Freedom EV to take only 20-25 hrs to build it once the
production line gets going well. This first one takes a bit
longer ;^D
I also worked the weight out of mine. Dispite it's
much larger 2 seat+ design, my Freedom EV weights a lot less
before the batteries are put in with more crash safety.
>> - Jake Oshins.
>>
>> Hi EVerybody;
>
> Gees! When I visited the Myers Factory over a year ago,
>they were busily engaged in designing a NEW Sparrow. Had a
>lot of chassis and stuff on the hugh factory floor, place
>used to be a transformer rebuild place.I THOUGH they were
>gunna do a upgraded Sparrow and a yet unnamed Two
>seater?Maybe as Phillipe sez, look into a Freedom EV deal?
They hired Robert Q Riley of http://www.rqriley.com/
as their engineer 6 months+ ago, notice his recent
project, the XR3 Hybrid which may be what they are working
on though way too low to be practical, a taller version
would be cool.
For those interested in lightweight car, 3wh, EV
design, his SAE papers under downloads there are excellent
and where I learned much of what I know about 3wheelers.
Amazingly one of his 3wheeler's is dangerous, the Trimuter,
while his TriMagnum, Doran designed by Rick Doran he sells
plans for are excellent handling 3wheelers. The Doran has an
EV option.
>
> My two seats worth.
>
> Bob Freedom EV, a Sparrow done Right.
That was my goal, a Sparrow done right, as a
single seat of any type is not going to sell much,
especially if you have to drive it carefully because of it's
narrow track and high CG.
So I went for 2 seats, good cargo area with
100 mile range and great stability, good safety at a much
lowewr price, $13k.
Working on the suspension and building an
expandable EV production shed so I can work later, cooler,
at night and when raining to speed things up.
Jerry Dycus
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go check out judester.com
On 9/6/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As I remember these Civic wagons had a tall roof. They were made around
85
to 01. They should be light and easy on the amps. I got a range of 950
to
5k. One was 4wd. They only seat 5 people as far as I know. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Soccer Mom Mobile
>
> I have long been looking at the Honda "Wagovan". Small station
wagon/mini
van
> type of thing. Looks like it would be great for battery placement if not
a
> little smaller than the Ford Escort. They should be fairly available and
if
> like the rest of the Hondas they seem to hold up well, should be able to
find
> a nice one with a run out engine. Good luck, this is the kind of EV that
we
> really need!! David Chapman.
>
>
> Quoting John Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >
> > I'm looking for a candidate to do serial conversions of a "soccer mom
> > mobile"/ small buisness errand vehicle.
> >
> > I'm considering the Ford Escort Wagons '91-98.
> >
> > Grateful for opinions.
> >
> > - John
> >
> > John Foster
> > Vancouver BC Canada
> >
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> FastQ Communications
> Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops. I meant judebert.com -- specifically check out his conversion
diary: http://judebert.com/wasted_youth/categories/40-EV-Conversion-Diary
On 9/6/06, Matt Kenigson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Go check out judester.com
On 9/6/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>
> As I remember these Civic wagons had a tall roof. They were made around
> 85
> to 01. They should be light and easy on the amps. I got a range of 950
> to
> 5k. One was 4wd. They only seat 5 people as far as I know. Lawrence
> Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
> So does Aluminum need to be passivated then? Anodizing makes it
> non conductive.
Aluminum passivates itself, just by exposure to air and water. The thin
oxide film that forms is often enough to protect it from further
corrosion. This layer is so thin that you can "break through" it with
high contact pressure when an electrical connection is needed.
But if the aluminum ever comes in contact with another metal, and the
interface gets wet with an electrolyte (salt water, battery acid etc.)
then it will corrode like mad! The aluminum "sacrifices" itself to
protect almost any other metal.
So, aluminum conductors only make sense if you can GUARANTEE that the
connection between them stays TIGHT so air will never get in there to
oxidize (passivate) the surface, and so that the interface NEVER gets
wet to cause corrosion.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:57 AM 6/09/06 -0700, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Actually, if it's designed properly, single front wheels can be just as
stable as dual front wheel trikes.
<snip> you can make it so that either vehicle remains stable up to the
point where the wheels slide. I.e. it will skid before the CoG moves
enough to flip the vehicle.<snip>
G'day All
Peter has pretty much illustrated the reasons for the custom chassis -
getting the batteries low and back to get a fairly large battery pack that
provides good range and puts the CG very low and well back. Hacking a
normal chassis to do this is likely to be so much work as simpler to start
from scratch.
Dual motors and an IRS setup is for two reasons, a) to use two of the
"pups" from my motor collection that i feel would be too small to be
successful in anything bigger (but big enough o move this in a 'sporty'
way), and b) more significantly is a means to carry the battery box as
close to the back axle as possible, to get the CG as rearward as possible.
Getting a dual-front wheel trike registered here I can see having problems
- it is likely to be considered to be a 3-wheeled car rather than a
3-wheeled motorbike, at least in perception if not in technicality.
Registration for a "normal" motorcycle-trike is pretty straight forward -
but that chassis layout doesn't lend itself to getting the batteries
installed low and back. A search on the 'net has at least one manufacturer
of motorcycle-trike kits that are IRS setup, but they are giving little
information away.
At present this is a "smoko" theoretical project, but if it it becomes
realistic to do at low cost (i.e. resolve the technical issues and "fall
over" suitable parts) then it may become a "smoko"/lunch break build
project at work.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Invicta GL is a very low Rolling Resistance tire, according to the
list in the Prius_Technical_Stuff files.
I would expect it to be an even more "summer tire" than the
TigerPaw, but I have never seen the Invicta so do not take
my expectation as truth.
I have been aquaplaning trough an intersection last spring
when my wheels locked up on a wet street, this was with
the TigerPaws at 50 PSI, but that may have just been that,
an incident.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
<http://www.cvandewater.com/>
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [uselectricar] Tiger paw tires
rick white wrote:
>
>
> Hi Chris,
> I do not believe the Tiger Paw is anything special, it is just what came
> with the trucks to begin with. However to gain efficiency I run them at
> 50 psi, and have done so for 6 years so far with no problems.
> Rick
Hm. I need to drive this thing in the winter, so I am a bit leery of
getting the $40 tires. I'll give these a shot and see how they work out.
I wonder though if I should keep the old Invicta tires. Even though they
are "dry rotted" they still look good and I'd hate to lose mileage. Or
is that stupid?
Chris
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 6, 2006, at 12:54 AM, Death to All Spammers wrote:
What is "worm and sector" steering? I've only heard of rack-and-pinion
and recirculating ball.
Here are descriptions and some pictures of alternate steering box
designs.
<http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14273/css/14273_311.htm> I
know that old Beetles used worm and sector but most (the change was
made in 1960) use a worm and roller box.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had bought an Escort conversion EV http://brucedp.6te.net/escort/
to keep it from being shipped away from the SF area.
I had higher capacity batteries put in it and a rear cable
installed for faster charging. After I tested it, I sold it to a SF
area family at cost.
It had a 108 VDC US125 pack, Curtis controller, GE motor, 5 speed
tranny, dual DC2DC's (no 12 V aux battery) and an on-board K&W DC
charger. At a steady 55 mph it had a range of 45 miles. Worst case
city driving was 35 miles. Top speed was 65 mph. Performance was
adequate: econo-box.
I would not recommend the dumb BC-20 charger. Use a better one: a
smart charger.
I would recommend all conversion EVs have an Emeter
http://www.affordable-solar.com/xantrex.link.10.standard.meter.emeter.htm
and not the analog meters this EV had.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
Plating the buss bars, is the way I would go. It is easy to do with the
following setup:
The plating tank can be acrylic fiberglass, polyethylene, polyprophlene or
glass with a flat open surface which you can lay two lengths of 2 x 2 wood
space apart on top of the container.
The wood holds three solid copper wires by inserting them into drill holes
in the wood. These rods are all space apart.
The center rod, will be the hold the object you want to plate which is call
the cathode which comes from a negative DC source.
The outside two rods, will hold the metal you are plating from which is call
the anode which comes from a positive DC source.
The object you want to plate and the cathodes are suspended from the copper
rods by using a small bare copper wire that is attach to the copper rods
buss with alligator clips.
You should always suspend the object you want to plate in the center of the
bath and surround it with at least four cathodes. This gives it even
plating on all sides.
The four anodes can be stainless steel if you use a bath using the
electrolyte contain the metal you want to plate with.
I find its it easer to just use the anodes as the metal you want to plate,
but sometimes this is a higher cost.
Use distill water with 3 to 6 percent sodium per gallon solution using gold
bars or you can use sodium gold cyanide in a 3.6 percent per gallon
solution, a sodium cyanide of 3.6 to 7.2 percent per gallon and disodium
phosphate of 3.6 to 10.8 percent per gallon.
Use a battery with a maximum of 12 volts at a sustained current of 0 to 12
amps for small items to 10 to 20 amps for larger items. Electroplating is
normally done from 2 volts for a fine finish to 10 volts for a course
finish. If you are plating with gold, you only need 15 to 20 seconds. Gold
is rarely thicker than 0.0001 inch.
If you want a thicker deposit, you must removed the object after 20 seconds,
clean it and plating again.
To clean the object you want to plate, you can reversed the current from the
cathode to the anodes. It is best to do this in a separate cleaning tank.
This only takes seconds.
I started to clean copper bars one time, and I left them in too long, 30
seconds and they look like they were sand blast, not smooth at all.
If you used a electrolytes bath of the base metal you want to use, it is
recommended that these solutions are heated from a range of 70 to 150 degree
F. which the electroplating solutions to work at.
I find it is just best to have the anodes as the plating metal.
while you are at it, you can plate all you battery connectors, bolts, nuts
and etc.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Mike,
> >
> > Make sure when you get your buss bars plated, you have them plate a
> high
> > conductive alloy. Nickel plating will increase the resistance.
> >
> > I found this out when I install all nickel plated fasteners on my
> battery
> > links. My copper bars at one time was coated with a very thin frosted
> > silvery coating which is a normal coating for buss bars. I don't
> have the
> > specs on that type of alloy. This coating is normally used in
> electrical
> > connections which might be a alloy of copper and cadmium which gives
> it a
> > frosted silvery copper tone.
>
> I think that is what my buss bars and nuts are coasted with. They have
> very close to what you describe for the plating surface.
>
> I wish we knew what the plating was!!
>
>
> >
> > Nickel is too high resistance, but has good corrosion resistance.
> They are
> > good for battery fasteners, but do not use them between the buss
> bars and
> > the battery terminals.
> >
> > Copper has too high corrosion factor.
> >
> > Silver which is a very good conductor but is subject to corrosion.
> >
> > Gold plating is a little less conductance then silver but it has a high
> > resistance to corrosion.
> >
> > So I used gold plating fasters between my battery post and cadmium
> plated
> > links, which acts like a bi-metal connection which we used in our
> overhead
> > line electrical work. It works good.
> >
> > If we have buss bar links that does not fit the bolt holes just
> right, we
> > then drill them out a little larger and apply Tinning Butter and
> apply a
> > little lead to that area, or use a re-plating kit that you can plate
> this
> > link with any alloy you want.
>
>
> Is tinning butter just pure tin + flux?
>
>
>
> > You can get the plating solutions in the kit, or can purchase them
> in large
> > bulk from the Fisher Laboratory Scientific Supply Companies.
> >
> > I found that the contact area makes a good conduction path. After
> we remove
> > them after years of surface, the surface was still highly polish to
> a mirror
> > finish.
>
> So plating a polished surface is the best idea? I made my plates from
> polished copper for the old lead acid pack. Plating them would make
> them a good bet for the Nicads.
>
> >
> > You can can this Tinning Butter, Lead sticks, and even Cadmium
> plating kits
> > from www.eastwoodcompany.com
>
> I haven't looked those guys up in years. Thanks for the reminder.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Sep 2006 at 15:21, Cor van de Water wrote:
> Invicta GL is a very low Rolling Resistance tire, according to the
> list in the Prius_Technical_Stuff files.
I didn't think these tires were still manufactured.
Note a few points though.
1. Invicta GL are NOT a very low rolling resistance tire, nor are they a low
rolling resistance tire. They are a reduced rolling resistance tire. The
only true LRR tire in the Invicta range was labeled Invicta GLR. These were
VERY hard to find even 8 years ago, and I would say impossible now. I'm
almost certain they haven't been made in many years.
2. If I'm right about the mfg status any that you find now will probably be
at least partly deteriorated. Very few areas have air clean enough to
preserve tire rubber for 6 years or more.
3. I had a set of Invicta GLR tires some years ago. They were the noisiest
tires I've ever ridden on by a very large margin. Handling was no better
than fair. Some have had good results from them, but I'm not one of them.
I would not buy them again even if they were currently being made.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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