EV Digest 5843
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) High School EV Project need some guidance
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Is this doable?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 4 years of 8V Battery in 144 V system Data available
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Reply Editing?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: High School EV Project need some guidance
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Standards
by "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) S10 truck finally on the road
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: [uselectricar] S10 truck finally on the road
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Opinions on Toyota Echo for conversion?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Trike 'motorcycle'
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Inexpensive Commuter EV, Re: Trike
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: EVs on TV in Australia. The Dateline footage, and WKTEC movie.
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Cable sheilding
by "Erik Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) GVWR
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Standards
by "Art Corbit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Generator Trailer
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EVs on TV in Australia. The Dateline footage, and WKTEC movie.
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
My name is Andrew Kloppel and I am the Project Manager for my high school's
engineering class, in which we are converting a 5 speed manual transmission
1988 Toyota Corolla station wagon to electric. We are going to keep the
standard transmission, however we still have some questions and concerns
regarding the options we have surrounding things such as batteries and motor
size. We are going to be getting our DC motor kit through Electro
Automotive, in which they offer either an 8" or 9" motor which we will run
on a full 120V system. We collectively decided that the car should have at
least a 70 mile range, and a top speed of at least 65 mph. Providing that
we have a rough project budget of about 10K and, we will be spending about
5K on the motor kit, we will also need to decide on the voltage and type of
batteries we will buy.
Specifically our concerns include the following areas:
1) Considering our personal goals for the car, would 6V or 12V batteries be
better for us, and what type (lead-acid, lithium ion, etc.), and also any
certain manufacturers? Why?
2) Also would the 8" or 9" motor be better for us? Why?
3) What would you recommend as far as power for accessories (stereo,
headlights)? We have heard of having separate batteries for accessories, are
there any advantages/disadvantages to this setup? Why?
We would appreciate any information you could provide.
Thanks,
Andrew Kloppel
Project Manager
Seabury Hall Engineering
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your goals are reasonable, but if you keep the battery
weight to 700-800, instead of 1200, you miss out on
another 10 mi. or so of range, min. You list a Zilla
mated to an 11" motor. That says "racing" all over it
to me, not 25 mi. commutes to a job...
You are right to be concerned about weight, but I'm
concerned about pulling lots of amps, (since you're
using low voltage; ie, few batteries), which decreases
battery life.
Just my 0.02.
--- Ben S <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone. I've been reading the list for a few
> months and learning
> about EVs (since I saw WKTEC) and planning a
> conversion of my own.
> I've got a donor car in mind, but I want to double
> check that my build
> will meet my expectations. I'd appreciate some
> feedback as to whether
> this will work before I start spending money. :)
>
> First, my goals:
> - commuter car mostly, short trips around town,
> relatively flat (I
> live in Denver, CO)
> - 20-25 miles realistic range to get me to work and
> back
> - fast, sporty car that accelerates well and will
> cruise up to 70 mph
> on the highway
>
> And some details on the car and components I have in
> mind (I won't say
> what kind of car yet, but it's a 2-seater sports
> car, and one that I
> haven't seen converted before):
> - car will weigh about 2500 lbs with everything but
> me (200 lbs) and
> the batteries (which I haven't decided on yet)
> - has a full frame with enough room and a beefy
> suspension to carry
> quite a few batteries
> - drag coefficient is about 0.35, relatively low
> frontal area, and I
> hope to do some aero mods like a belly pan
> - planning on a TransWarP 11" motor
> - direct drive with a 4.56 (or so) ratio in the rear
> end
> - Zilla 2K controller (for series-parallel switching
> and w/ reversing
> contactors)
>
> I'd like to keep the battery weight to about 600-800
> lbs. I'm
> budgeting about $3000 for batteries, so I can't
> afford anything more
> advanced than probably lead AGMs. This would put
> the car at or below
> the original curb weight of the car with the ICE.
> My main questions
> are:
>
> - What batteries would you recommend to power the
> Zilla and 11" motor,
> and would this combo give me good acceleration with
> a car this heavy?
> - Will I be able to drive up to 25 miles on a
> 600-800 lb battery pack?
> - Is this a realistic conversion, or should I scrap
> this idea and look
> for a lighter car instead?
>
> Thanks for any feedback! And if this combo won't
> work, be honest, I
> can take the criticism. :) I really like the car
> that I have in
> mind, but if it's unrealistic, so be it. I read
> about Jeff Shanab
> being disappointed in the performance of his 300ZX
> recently and it has
> me worried that maybe this car is too heavy to meet
> my expectations.
>
> Ben
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Needless to say, Lynn, I'd like to compare notes when
you have a chance to send it...
Thanks,
--- "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rather than to continue the 6-8V flooded battery
> debate, I am glad to
> share my experience on 4 pack of 8V batteries in a
> 144 (sometimes 160V)
> system in my converted civic.
>
> In summary, 80+ miles per day, two charges per day,
> 4 battey packs,
> 52,321 miles (sold the car with about 1/2 to 1/3
> pack life left on
> T890's). 8 volters worked fine in a small car with
> beefed up
> suspension.
>
> If you would like an excel spreadsheet with 4+ years
> of daily data,
> please email me directly.
>
> Lynn
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Roden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:30 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Batteries (8 volt vs 6 volt)- again /
> UCaps oops
>
> On 6 Sep 2006 at 10:08, Lee Lazon wrote:
>
> > So, if I take it right, would you guys still
> recommend 108v of 6 volt
> > batteries over 144v of 8 volts?
>
> All other things being equal and >in typical use<
> the car with 6v golf
> car
> batteries will have a lower operating cost owing to
> longer battery cycle
>
> life. I'm assuming a typical chopper and GE or ADC
> series motor
> conversion
> here.
>
> A 108v Escort wagon won't be a racer, and it'll be
> slower than the ICE
> version, but for a person who plans ahead in driving
> ;-) the
> acceleration
> will be adequate. You should be able to get it to
> 70+ mph, though it
> may
> take a while.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> How about editing the replies so they're not so freakin' long? This
is ridiculous!
>
I agree - some people don't know how to edit, even if they know where
the reply/send button is. I consider myself lazy when I don't reread
my post for composition (learned form a childhood tendency for
lexdys)ia, but moving everything that came to your inbox into your
outbox is bad.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a cool model! I'll be anxious to see the
finished product!
...converting a 5
> speed manual transmission
> 1988 Toyota Corolla station wagon to electric. We
> are going to keep the
> standard transmission, however we still have some
> questions and concerns
> regarding the options we have surrounding things
> such as batteries and motor
> size. We are going to be getting our DC motor kit
> through Electro
> Automotive, in which they offer either an 8" or 9"
> motor which we will run
> on a full 120V system. We collectively decided that
> the car should have at
> least a 70 mile range, and a top speed of at least
> 65 mph. Providing that
> we have a rough project budget of about 10K and, we
> will be spending about
> 5K on the motor kit, we will also need to decide on
> the voltage and type of
> batteries we will buy.
>
> Specifically our concerns include the following
> areas:
> 1) Considering our personal goals for the car, would
> 6V or 12V batteries be
> better for us, and what type
6 volt = thicker plates. More lead and less
resistance means longer range and lower depth of
discharge, which means longer lifespan.
(lead-acid, lithium
> ion, etc.),
Try going to Interstate battery and getting lithium.
How is the bank account? (;-p Also, requires special
charge/discharge battery management.
and also any
> certain manufacturers? Why?
> 2) Also would the 8" or 9" motor be better for us?
9" means more torque (greater armature) but higher
expense and more weight.
> Why?
> 3) What would you recommend as far as power for
> accessories (stereo,
> headlights)? We have heard of having separate
> batteries for accessories, are
> there any advantages/disadvantages to this setup?
> Why?
DCDC converter and 12V lead acid are what most of us
use...
>
> We would appreciate any information you could
> provide.
>
Best of success to you!
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yo Art,
The aforementioned Mike Brown of Electro
Automotive is into steam too! Check him out.
Thanks for the support on the subject of the
EV Manual, mabe the thread won't die.
Doc
On 9/7/06, Art Corbit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Doc,
This is the problem with a lot of things in this country. People simply
are
not being educated with true facts concerning a lot of things. They hear a
lot but very little is fact and usually works to turn them off to
different
things. If the public was being educated with true facts concerning EV's
and
other forms of fuel you would see a lot more people enjoying them.
I look for steam to start making a strong come back any time. Especially
in
home energy systems. There are so many different fuels you can use to
produce steam for one thing and the technology is old and well published.
I
have been checking it out lately and I am amazed at the good information
you
can find on the subject.
You can hear a lot and read a lot on EV's but a lot of it is not fact.
Most
people are simply repeating what they have heard or read and as you
already
know this isn't always fact. The book you suggest is the best idea I have
heard in a long time concerning electric vehicles of any kind. There are a
few out there that really know their stuff on EV's but very few of them
are
on Yahoo groups.
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Standards
> I,also,agree and here's why. In 1981 during an eariler gas crisis, I got
> involved with conversions to alcohol for fuel.
> Mike Brown was one of my mentors. Through all the research I did before
> getting a running vehicle, I found that
> MURPHYS' Law was correct, "90% of everything is Crap!"
>
> Why can't the EAA, who I've paid membership to for 10
> years, sponser a definitive How-To book on Building,
> buying and maintaining Electric Vehicles with chapters
> by all our 'resident pioneers' than would be our handbook,
> service manual and public education tool to sale at
> races and expos ?
>
> Doc Kennedy
>
> On 9/7/06, Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > > Other suggestions?
> > >
> > > Perhaps we could start out more inwardly focused,
> > > helping people on this list and others in the EAA
> > > convert, maintain and repair their own EVs.
> >
> > Yep! I agree!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would not even attempt to do nickel plating. If you think gold plating is
a hassle, try nickel plating, I try it once.
Normally nickel plating is used as an undercoating which is not bright when
use as itself below chromium which brighten and highly reflective.
There is many other steps to use nickel as the finish surface. You have to
used brightners to increase the reflective properties, but the surface will
be wavy or uneven. There is levellers additives plus dozens of possible
electrolyte solutions for use with nickel.
A friend of mine who does electro plating, gave me the chemicals for making
the electrolyte for plating nickel.
This consist of nickel sulfate, nickel chloride, nickel carbonate, boric
acid, activated charcoal, glucose, sulphuric acid and nickel anodes
Then you have prepare and diluted the chemicals just right, with the right
heating, right ampere and voltage, and a filtering pump system, it - well it
was a nightmare.
It always came out frosted looking and some nickel would peel off the base
metal.
That why he gave this stuff for plating nickel. I gave it back to him.
Majority of his plating is done in gold and silver.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
>
>
>
> >From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
> >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:57:18 -0600
> >
> >Hello Mike,
> >
> >Make sure when you get your buss bars plated, you have them plate a high
> >conductive alloy. Nickel plating will increase the resistance.
> >
> Don't worry too much about the resistance of the plating, Plating is
> generally so thin, that the resistance of any metal won't be significant.
> Much more important is the corrosion resistance of the plating so that you
> don't get high resistance due to corrosion at the connection.
>
> Phil
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search from any web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows
> Live
> Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, after spending the entire *day* driving around getting new tires,
inspection, then battery shop to get a 12 volt hold down, then back to
inspection, then to the MVA my truck is FINALLY MD state inspected,
titled, tagged, and finished. I can drive it anywhere.
It's charging now, note to the world that National Tire and Battery
seems to have a 20amp 120 volt outlet on the side of every store. And
they don't mind if you plug in your electric car. In fact they seem to
like it.
Took the pack down past 20ah, ran fine. Now I need to figure out how to
make it charge faster; this 2.5a charge rate is for the birds.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations!
I would expect that a transformer to bring 240V down to around 190V
would allow the Dolphin to charge much faster?
If the charge current can reach 6A then you only need a 48V 300W
transformer (secondary with a primary 240V) to get 190V.
Conversely, a 120V to 70V 450W transformer can boost a 120V
outlet to 190V.
As long as the resting voltage on the NiCds is not below 1.1V per cell
the rectified 190V should be below the pack voltage, avoiding damaging
currents and FET switching (slow charging).
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
<http://www.cvandewater.com/>
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[email protected]
Subject: [uselectricar] S10 truck finally on the road
Ok, after spending the entire *day* driving around getting new tires,
inspection, then battery shop to get a 12 volt hold down, then back to
inspection, then to the MVA my truck is FINALLY MD state inspected,
titled, tagged, and finished. I can drive it anywhere.
It's charging now, note to the world that National Tire and Battery
seems to have a 20amp 120 volt outlet on the side of every store. And
they don't mind if you plug in your electric car. In fact they seem to
like it.
Took the pack down past 20ah, ran fine. Now I need to figure out how to
make it charge faster; this 2.5a charge rate is for the birds.
Chris
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Caswell Plating is the top supplier of home plating kits. They have a
number of nickel products.
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/
What you say echos what I heard when I did a bit of metal plating awhile
back. The nickel plating process is supposed to be very difficult to do
well on an "amateur" basis. It's a complicated process and requires
process controls. It's very easy to yield a flawed nickel layer that
will likely flake off.
Of course that was some time ago and things change. There could be a
more reliable product out there now that is easier to just plug in and
get a quality nickel layer. Caswell does sell a electric brush-applied
nickel. Caswell does have LOTS of neat stuff, even a process for
plating aluminum.
Danny
Roland Wiench wrote:
I would not even attempt to do nickel plating. If you think gold plating is
a hassle, try nickel plating, I try it once.
Normally nickel plating is used as an undercoating which is not bright when
use as itself below chromium which brighten and highly reflective.
There is many other steps to use nickel as the finish surface. You have to
used brightners to increase the reflective properties, but the surface will
be wavy or uneven. There is levellers additives plus dozens of possible
electrolyte solutions for use with nickel.
A friend of mine who does electro plating, gave me the chemicals for making
the electrolyte for plating nickel.
This consist of nickel sulfate, nickel chloride, nickel carbonate, boric
acid, activated charcoal, glucose, sulphuric acid and nickel anodes
Then you have prepare and diluted the chemicals just right, with the right
heating, right ampere and voltage, and a filtering pump system, it - well it
was a nightmare.
It always came out frosted looking and some nickel would peel off the base
metal.
That why he gave this stuff for plating nickel. I gave it back to him.
Majority of his plating is done in gold and silver.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: USE S10 Nicad layout
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:57:18 -0600
Hello Mike,
Make sure when you get your buss bars plated, you have them plate a high
conductive alloy. Nickel plating will increase the resistance.
Don't worry too much about the resistance of the plating, Plating is
generally so thin, that the resistance of any metal won't be significant.
Much more important is the corrosion resistance of the plating so that you
don't get high resistance due to corrosion at the connection.
Phil
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--- Begin Message ---
At 05:15 PM 9/7/2006, Roland Wiench wrote:
I would not even attempt to do nickel plating. If you think gold plating is
a hassle, try nickel plating, I try it once.
Oh, Nickel plating is EASY! I've done thousands of BB600 BusBars.
Just take the bar copper bars down to your local plating shop, and
voila! They're done. No mess, no Hassle! :-)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Dmitir
I'm about 80% done with the conversion of an Echo. I started a couple of
years ago, but other things were higher priority until a few weeks ago, so
now I'm back at it.
Here are my comments ( remember, it's not on the road, yet)
First - I really like the car (ICE version) . In fact, my family now has
two ICE Echos, plus the one being converted. The ICE cars average 40-45
MPH in mixed driving ( higher for the manual than the automatic car)
The downside for an EV is that the car is so small, particularly the engine
compartment, that it's a challenge to fit everything in. My car will have 5
GC batteries under the hood ( two where the radiator was, and three above
the electric motor). Also, because my batteries are in boxes with an inch
of foam insulation, fitting them in was particularly difficult. If you're
in a warm weather area and don't need the extra space for insulation, it
will be easier.
I plan on 13 batteries ( 8 volters) total. That is the most, weight-wise,
that will result in the car being within the original GWVR with a couple of
passengers. The batteries will end up being about 30% of the total vehicle
weight, so range, and performance will be somewhat limited.
On the plus side, it was easy to beef up the suspension. I'm using rear
springs from a Scion Xb to accomodate the increased rear axle weight due to
the 8 batteries sunk into the trunk floor. They are 36% stiffer than the
orignal Echo rear springs, and fit perfectly. They are available cheap on
Ebay, because people are upgrading their Xb's to sportier suspensions.
The motor installation went well. I'm using an ADC 8 incher, with a
conventional adapter and hub that I made myself. Two of the engine mounts
are on the transmission so they required no work at all,. For the third
engine mount, I kept the original mount and built an adapter ( a steel
weldment) that goes between the stock mount and the end of the motor. The
motor fit easily in the engine compartment.
It was a lot of work to take the dash apart to replace the heater core with
an electric ceramic one, but I understand that this is true for most
conversions.
On of these days ( or months) I'll put up a website with pictures of the
conversion process and descriptions of how I did it.
In general - I think the size and load capacity means you won't have a lot
of range and performance, but I still think it's a good car for a
conversion.
Phil
From: "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Opinions on Toyota Echo for conversion?
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 20:59:38 -0400
Your opinion: is the Toyota Echo a good candidate for conversion?
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holy cow, look at the first one on this page
http://btw-trikers.org/uploads/photo_tw_gallery.php?page_num=2&category=A
looks nice but would fold up on any impacts
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: Trike 'motorcycle'
At 09:16 AM 7/09/06 -0700, you wrote:
If you want more ideas for 3-wheelers, here's a good
page with pictures of several different types,
http://www.ccpc.net/~jaho/3wheel2.html
G'day All
This site is the one that scared me - the things that people are building
and operating on public roads! Glad I live here in Aus.
http://btw-trikers.org/uploads/home.php
Lots of ideas that could be adapted to EV use, including some frames that
are begging to have a battery box set up between them.
Regards
[Technik] James
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee, Richard and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Trike
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 09:28:09 -0700
>richard weaver wrote:
>> I plan on building a trike similar to the R.Q. Riley Urba
>> Trike... I need advice on motor etc. that will get
>> desired performance. My commute is about 50 miles with
>> some hills and about 20 miles of highway.
>
>50 miles at highway speeds is hard to do with an
>inexpensive EV. It usually takes expensive batteries or an
>exceptionally efficient vehicle.
This is so right. The inexpensive way is an
exceptional EV as t neds a smaller EV drive, battery system.
But a Riley Urba-trike is not the way to go as it's
aero is really bad like all unfaired MC's. So it's just not
going to do the job.
What you need is a very good aero body and it's
easist on a 2 wheel aero cabin MC.
Unless it's a tilting trike, you need to be at least
4' wide which gets your frontal area up, the other part of
aero drag if you use 3wheels.
My new 3wheeler with 2 wheels in the front is very
aerodynamic.
http://evproduction.org/wiki/index.php?title=Progress_Pics
One could copy, modify it's shape done in wood/epoxy
like the Ewoody was. Very light, strong and easy, cheap to
work with. I built, ran it for 10 yrs on just $1k!!
>
>But if it's 50 miles round trip (25 miles there, 25 miles
>back), and you can charge at work, then it's fairly easy.
>
>For cheap, simple, and good performing, Jerry Dycus's
>"Woody" EV is pretty hard to beat. He used an old VW Beetle
>front end, a single rear wheel, chain driven from a golf
>cart motor, plywood 2-seater body, 72v worth of 6v golf
>cart batteries, series/parallel contactor controller, and a
>golf cart charger.
While it was very good, it wasn't aerodynamic
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/168
, as it was never completed with doors, ect. And why was
the front wheel wells didn't fit, and the VW suspension as
it was installed wouldn't handle more battery weight, so
built what you see in the pics of it..
It was suppose to have 72vdc but the VW suspension
wouldn't handle that much weight so just used 36 and 48vdc
packs. One can beef it up to carry 500lbs of batts though.
Another thing is a 2F1R handles, brakes much better
the a 1F2R trike does. It's so good when done right it will
blow your mind, especialy in EV form where the batteries
make the GC several inches below most of the best
sportscars.
On 48vdc, it did 60 mph. And 55mph on 36vdc and field
weakening. On 36vdc range was just 25-30 miles in the Ewoody
but it wasn't optimised at all. Better aero and low drag
tires, more batts would have done wonders for it.
A fairly aero 3wheeler with 48vdc of Golf cart batts.
LLR tires would get you the range you want with T125's or
similar size US battery ones with long life.
If a good scrounger like I am, you could build one for
under $1k and not so good scrounging, $2-3k.
Jerry Dycus
>
>Officially, it's a motorcycle. He drove it for almost 10
>years! He can tell you more, but as I recall it had a top
>speed around 50 mph, and a range of about 50 miles.
>--
>"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful,
>committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the
>only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead
>--
>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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> It is running under the title of "Who killed the Electric Car"
> advertised on the SBS Dateline website as "coming soon"
> without a date, so I rang today and was told it is scheduled
> for Wednesday 13 September 2006, 8:30pm...
Yep, caught a promo for Dateline last night, talking about the EV-1.
> However, the great news is it's now scheduled for release on
> 2 November through the Village Cinema chain... Well, it's great news if
> you live in Victoria, Tasmania or New South Wales!
Thanks for the update!
Cheers,
Claudio
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Hi Pat,
I'm was thinking about using two separate conduits because it will allow
me to turn tighter corners routing the flex hose. The 1 1/2" stuff makes
for a wider bend radius than the 3/4 or 1". The two separate cables runs
will still be right next to each other, just in their own protective
flex hoses. It's not as good as a solid conduit, but I don't think too
much worse than both in the same flex hose.
I'll let you know how it works!
Erik
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 7:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cable sheilding
In a message dated 9/7/2006 1:01:22 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
all,
I was discussing how I was going to run the cable from the rear battery
box
in my EV to the front, and I was thinking of using 2 runs of 3/4"
flexible
armored conduit right next to eachother to help make some tight turns
that a
single larger conduit would have trouble with. The cables won't be
touching
eachother, but will be very close, and each conduit is armored. I could
connect the armor of each conduit together. Will this work to contain
radiated noise?
As a side note, are the battery cables all that noisy anyway? I would
think
think the motor loop would be orders of magnitude worse and drown out
any
emissions from the battery cable runs.
Thanks,
Erik
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/823
Eric,
If you run the cables next to each other it will prevent radiated
electrical noise, running them in separate conduits will make it worse
not better.
Pat
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I'm not so sure about this GVWR thing, as most conversions are going over
it. Kinda worried of safety/long term reliability.
What do you think are the top most aerodynamic cars to use for conversion
that can also hold the most weight for batteries without stressing the
frame?
What are the weakest points, besides suspension and brakes? How much can you
go over GVWR?
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You're welcome Doc. You just can't get too much of good information on
something like this. There is so much junk floating around out there on EV's
it is really hard to sift out the good information from the bad. If you
should decide to try to put together some kind of instruction manual I would
be more than happy to help you any way I could. I don't know a lot about
EV's but I am a pro at finding the cheapest way to build what you want where
it will stand up there with the best of them. I'm sure there are others on
here that would help also. If you have a link to Mike Brown's web site
please post it.
Art
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doc Kennedy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Standards
> Yo Art,
>
> The aforementioned Mike Brown of Electro
> Automotive is into steam too! Check him out.
> Thanks for the support on the subject of the
> EV Manual, mabe the thread won't die.
>
> Doc
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Every so often someone asks this question. The problem with a generator
trailer is that you will produce MANY times the pollutants of an equivalent
ICE car. ( and probably twice the CO2). A modern ICE car engine is very
sophisticated and carefully controlled by it's computer. Any small
non-automotive engine will not even be close in cleanliness of running or
efficiency.
So, you have to ask what the benefit would be.
Phil
From: brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Generator Trailer
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
Greeting fellow EVers,
I've been playing with the idea of a generator trailer
for a little while now. I have the trailer, yes that
was the easy part. I am having great troubles finding
an affordable (<$1000) diesel/Bio diesel generator or
ever just the engine and I can attach the gen head
later. I didn't go through all this trouble just to
burn gas :p
I'm guessing I need 10-15KW. any suggestions? how are
the rest of you doing this?
thank you for your input!
Brian
81'Bradley GTII
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Tim,
We finished up a very successful "Electric and Alternative Fuel Expo" in
Cary NC, USA two weeks ago. We (Don ("DC") Crohan, [EMAIL PROTECTED])
talked with the theater manager and convinced him that we would put on
an Expo for him if he would show the film "Who Killed the Electric Car?"
on the same day. We were able to rally the EVers and Alternative Fuel
advocates in the area. We had 11 EV's and one Bio-diesel vehicle there
and several booths. The theater manager agreed to let us to block off
an area in front of the theater so there was no "through traffic" and
people could leisurely walk and talk with the drivers. Two of the 11
vehicles were towed there. One was an exhibit car for the EV
Challenge. The rest were driven there by their owners. We had a
Sparrow show that was at it max range. The theater provided a socket
and extension cord. I really thought it was neat that the Sparrow owner
was able to recharge there. (Who needs a hydrogen infrastructure?) The
fellow was able to recharge and had enough juice to return home after
the show.
We were able to fly in the director of the movie, Chris Paine. After
the show, Chris and several of us "experts" stood up in front of the
almost SRO audience and answered their questions. We all had a good
time. The theater manager was elated with what we had accomplished and
we heard nothing but positive comments form the public. I think the
main thing was that the public could talk to real people driving EVs on
a daily basis. Can you rally the EVers in Sydney?
Tim or if any of you on the EVDL would like to know the details, please
contact myself or DC off list. We can provide you with some materials
and advice. DC was the one who honcho'ed this and he and his students
did a really great job. I'm also proud of our members who showed up in
numbers.
Peter Eckhoff, President
TEAA
Tim Ireland wrote:
For all those listers here in Australia, the feature filmed by
'Dateline' that John Wayland has mentioned and should include some White
Zombie action is due to air on next Wednesdays edition.
It is running under the title of "Who killed the Electric Car"
advertised on the SBS Dateline website as "coming soon" without a date,
so I rang today and was told it is scheduled for Wednesday 13 September
2006, 8:30pm... then repeats on the following Thursday and Monday at
1:00pm.
I am organising a friend to record it as I will be on a plane between
Sydney and Adelaide.
The movie "Who killed the Electric Car" was originally scheduled for
release by the main cinema chain here in Aus (Greater Union) in mid
August but, as reported previously on this list, they changed their mind
and did not pick it up.
However, the great news is it's now scheduled for release on 2 November
through the Village Cinema chain... Well, it's great news if you live in
Victoria, Tasmania or New South Wales!
Unfortunately for me, I am in South Australia... and Village Cinemas are
not, so I am waiting for a call back from Sony Pictures Australia to
find out who is bringing it to the rest of Australia.
Tim Ireland
Adelaide, South Oz
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