EV Digest 5846
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Generator Trailer
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Generator Trailer
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) what is the best non-zilla controller
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Reply Editing?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Truck beats Prizm in range?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Identifying diode direction.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) electroless nickle plating
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Nickle plating.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Batteries (8 volt vs. 6 volt)
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tango in Hammacher Schlemmer catalog
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Batteries (8 volt vs. 6 volt)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re:Torque converters in EVs
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Generator Trailer
by John Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Generator Trailer
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Generator Trailer
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Ni-Cads
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Generator Trailer
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Identifying diode direction.
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Permanent Interconnections needed
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: battery costs/pricing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Generator Trailer
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Identifying diode direction.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Generator Trailer
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Generator Trailer
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Batteries (8 volt vs. 6 volt)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Reply Editing?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The more appropriate question may be to ask about a pusher trailer rather
than a generator. You can do two things with a pusher trailer; 1) use it to
extend your range if you want a little autonomy and extended range EV, 2)
add a generator to one of the pulleys off the ICE and charge your pack on
the fly.
You get the benefit of a clean burning computer controlled ICE engine with
better efficiency to go the long distance and when you get where you're
going, you can use the EV by just a quick disconnect.
This is probably a better more efficient mating of the "hybrid" approach to
extending an EV range.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Marino [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 9:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Generator Trailer
Every so often someone asks this question. The problem with a generator
trailer is that you will produce MANY times the pollutants of an equivalent
ICE car. ( and probably twice the CO2). A modern ICE car engine is very
sophisticated and carefully controlled by it's computer. Any small
non-automotive engine will not even be close in cleanliness of running or
efficiency.
So, you have to ask what the benefit would be.
Phil
>From: brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Generator Trailer
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Greeting fellow EVers,
>I've been playing with the idea of a generator trailer
>for a little while now. I have the trailer, yes that
>was the easy part. I am having great troubles finding
>an affordable (<$1000) diesel/Bio diesel generator or
>ever just the engine and I can attach the gen head
>later. I didn't go through all this trouble just to
>burn gas :p
>I'm guessing I need 10-15KW. any suggestions? how are
>the rest of you doing this?
>thank you for your input!
>
>Brian
>81'Bradley GTII
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This depends. If you use generator every other day to get you
to the job place 120 miles away, you're right.
But if you commute using EV and go to that 120 miles away
place only once every 3 years, total
pollution level of this trip still may be less that using
average ICE for 3 years for local commuting (where EV could be
used for) + for that one long trip.
(Now you wouldn't need a range extender for only one trip every
3 years, but this is not the point I'm making).
Also, if you use lawnmower engine 'course there is no emission
controls. If you use water-cooled motorcycle one, it will be far
better. Not as a car's but closer to it.
Victor
Phil Marino wrote:
Every so often someone asks this question. The problem with a generator
trailer is that you will produce MANY times the pollutants of an
equivalent ICE car. ( and probably twice the CO2). A modern ICE car
engine is very sophisticated and carefully controlled by it's computer.
Any small non-automotive engine will not even be close in cleanliness of
running or efficiency.
So, you have to ask what the benefit would be.
Phil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any input would be welcome - right now the Zilla I have on order is delaying
my conversion, and I am considering purchasing a non-zilla to hold me over
until the zilla gets here....would be interested in purchasing a decent used
controller if anyone out there has one.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about instructing web server to truncate every email
to EVDL to so many lines, say, 20 or 40?
Normal general email should not be longer anyway.
If you want much detail, ask sender to email you
off list.
Personally I don't care, I just hit delete (cable modem) but
as I've heard those who are on dial up or use Blackberries or
other portable things to read email (and pay per min or kB)
suffer the most downloading pointless replies to the same
email over and over just to read "I agree" or "Me too".
Indeed very annoying.
David? What's server's admin's take on this?
My 2mm.
Victor
Death to All Spammers wrote:
How about editing the replies so they're not so freakin' long? This
is ridiculous!
I agree - some people don't know how to edit, even if they know where
the reply/send button is. I consider myself lazy when I don't reread
my post for composition (learned form a childhood tendency for
lexdys)ia, but moving everything that came to your inbox into your
outbox is bad.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Ok, this is somewhat weird. Yesterday I took the S10 (300v
> NiCd) out to the Double T diner. Normally this is an 8-9ah
> drive in the Prizm (300v Hawker Pb). However when I looked
> at the E-meter, it read 6ah down.
>
> Why? Is the lower weight of the battery pack *THAT* big of
> a range improver? The packs have the same base voltage, and
> I do hope that the truck is less aerodynamic than a Prizm.
Switch the E-Meter to display kWh rather than Ah (or start logging the
data from it, if it is RS232 equipped).
The NiCd and PbA packs may have the same nominal voltage, but they will
have different charged voltages and will sag differently under load.
The vehicle takes a certain amount of power (kW) to move at a given
speed on a given route, and if the voltage is higher, the Ah consumed
will be lower even though the total energy (kWh) may be the same or
greater.
Also, as Bruce P. suggests, you might want to repeat the trip a few
times to make sure the result is real. If there are lights, etc. on the
way you can sometimes see a fair difference in Ah/kWh depending on how
many you have to stop at.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.geocities.com/bassoonii/MVC-012S.JPG
Reading diodes and resistors.can sometimes be confusing. This 10 ohm
resistor reads 17.6 ohms on the 20k scale through the diode. It won't read
on lower scales through the diode & the resistor is on the positive side. I
thought diodes were + on the marked side. This diode only reads + from the
unmarked end. These components are brittle and when servicing the contactor
they were hooked to they fell apart. I just wanted to be sure of polarity
when I connect new components. These are for reducing arcing as far as I
know. The contactor is part of a hydralic pump I'm using on my electric
chopper. So I guess the question is where positive and negative are
connected with this setup. I'd say positive to the resistor but the diode
marking would be the place you'd think. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just used in on lead acid cars. I'm looking for liquid nickel right now. I
got the liquid tin in San Jose at an electrical/computer supply company.
Lawrence........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
> Did your liquid tin ever get used with nicads? Where did you get it?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I've used both and plating using chemicals is much easier and
> consistent.
> > It looks very good. I don't know if there is liquid nickel. I use
> liquid
> > tin and it has held up very well. Lawrence Rhodes...........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:30 AM
> > Subject: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm getting 14ea STM5-180's over the week-end and thought why
> can't you
> > just tin plate the lugs with the solder & a torch? Seams like a lot
> easier
> > than tinning chemically.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/MetalCoatings/Electroless.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark E. Hanson wrote:
> I'm getting 14ea STM5-180's over the week-end and thought
> why can't you just tin plate the lugs with the solder & a
> torch? Seams like a lot easier than tinning chemically.
Tinning them is a waste of time; tin is very similar in potential to
copper and so will be corroded just as quickly when in contact with the
Ni battery terminals in the presence of KOH electrolyte.
People are not discussing tinning terminals, but nickel plating them.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.electro-coatings.com/
I talked to [EMAIL PROTECTED] He said he can get one mil(.001")
every 2.5 hours of tumble time. I't would be a 150 dollar charge. Tumble
time not charged. Just setup. I bet you could do all your buss bars and
components this way. They are in Berkeley. Liquid Nickle is available but
disposal is a problem. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.electro-coatings.com/ Talk to Kyle Smith.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] These guys will probably do all your buss bars
and lugs for 150 dollars. Liquid Nickle does exist but disposal is a
problem. Lawrence......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
> Did your liquid tin ever get used with nicads? Where did you get it?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I've used both and plating using chemicals is much easier and
> consistent.
> > It looks very good. I don't know if there is liquid nickel. I use
> liquid
> > tin and it has held up very well. Lawrence Rhodes...........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:30 AM
> > Subject: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm getting 14ea STM5-180's over the week-end and thought why
> can't you
> > just tin plate the lugs with the solder & a torch? Seams like a lot
> easier
> > than tinning chemically.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shouldn't it be that 6 volt batts have 15 plates and 8 volt batts have 19?
> My first comment is that, since the 8 volters have 15 plates per cell and
> the 6 volters 19 of the same plates per cell,
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yea I have the Catalog cover screwed to the wall behind my power bench...
It keeps me motivated while I test and tune the Killer water cooled chargers
that I make for them.
The PFC40LM for liquid cooled with line current meter...
It lists for $2800. You are paying for both the power and the pain in the
neck small package.
The PFC50s give better Wats per dollar but are twice the size and weight.
OK.. I can hear Ryan Bohm... "Rich??? Where's the Digi photo of that
charger??
I have one on hand and will load it up and get some data and photos, Shot
for us all.
I just go the first complete NON hacked up unit on hand last night... The
ones that live in the Tangos now are prototypes.
This has been about a 2 year incremental design upgrade. 9600 watts in 1/2 a
cubic foot is getting pretty tight.
The Aluminum heat sink is a work of art By my Dad and I. I could hang one on
the wall and be proud of it.
I also have a pair of tricked out 40HM units with a copper thermal spreader
and twin 41 CFM fans in them. The PFC30s have 25 CFM fans... these should
really pump some air.
Lots of new stuff, and orders up the Gazzu..
More watts in ever smaller packages... seams to keep the orders flowing my
way.
Didn't somebody say we could all live with smaller chargers???
Bahh Humbug!... That's not what you all are paying me to make!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:50 PM
Subject: Tango in Hammacher Schlemmer catalog
> One of my co-workers pointed out the Tango in his Hammacher
> Schlemmer catalog. It's in the Holiday Preview 2006 edition,
> p.8, listed as "The 120M.P.H. Electric Car". The red Tango looks
> quite menacing with its bright lights on against a blue backdrop.
>
> The Tango is also at Hammacher's homepage at
> http://hammacher.com. I dropped one into my shopping bag for a
> cool 108 kilobucks, but unfortunately gift wrapping was
> unavailable. I doubt Santa would be able to get it down my
> chimney anyways, so that's as far as it went, but I do imagine it
> would make a great gift for that s.o. in your life.
>
> Rick Woodbury, creator of the Tango, dropped into a NBEAA meeting
> back in Feb. 2004. Story and photos at
> http://nbeaa.org/html/040214pastmeetings2004.html.
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Patrick Maston wrote:
> Shouldn't it be that 6 volt batts have 15 plates and 8 volt
> batts have 19?
Nope. The cases are the same size, but an 8V battery is divided into 4
cells while a 6V is divided into 3. The number of plates don't
determine the voltage, they determine the capacity, so the 6V battery
with 19 plates per cell will have somewhat greater capacity than the 8V
with just 15 plates per cell.
So: a US8VGC is rated 165Ah, or 73.3% of the US2200's 225Ah; 73.3% of 19
plates is 14.
The total number of plates in each battery are similar:
US8VGC: 4 cells * 15 plates = 60 plates.
US2200: 3 cells * 19 plates = 57 plates.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In general torque converters are horrible for electric vehicles.
They are the primary reason automatics in ICE vehicles have poorer
gas milage than manual transmissions. In their torque coupling range
they are about 95% efficient without lockup. Locked up they are
almost 100% however they are doing nothing but adding weight when
locked up. In their torque multiplying range they can multiply
torque by a factor of about 2.5 to one, to keep your motor running in
its sweet spot, however this comes with the penalty of losses of
about 25-30%. For this reason most new automatic transmissions have
from five to six gears, and lock up the torque converter as soon as
possible.
On Sep 7, 2006, at 1:02 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: September 7, 2006 11:41:00 AM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Gear Ratios- torque converters
I noticed that to keep the batty currents down, it is important to
use the right gear and acceleration.
Has anyone tried getting rid of the transmission entirely and
replacing it with a special 'low-stall' lock-up torque converter?
Seems to me that a properly designed torque converter would be
nearly the same efficiency as a manual transmission, but always
putting the motor in an ideal range for best battery current.
Thoughts?
-Ralph
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire—bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aaron, I think you're right on the money. I also plan to have a
generator on a trailer for longer trips. It is a fantastic idea -- a
hybrid which has a removable engine so you can run electric-only without
the weight penalty normally incurred. Don't forget that the generator
does not have to run on gasoline. Honda makes a nice tri-fuel than can
run on CNG, propane, or gasoline. Plenty of others to choose from as well.
John
I see the benefit as being able to every once in a while drive an electric car
(that has a short range) for long distances. If for the most part the
electric vehicle is driven without the trailer then the emission should be
greatly reduced from that of an ICE engine.
I dont really understand the push back on this concept. It seems to me that a
generator could be made more efficient than an ICE. Im not sure what kind of
gas mileage you would get, but as long as its in a good range (>20 mpg) then
the use of the trailer for long trips would make sense. Plus you get the
added advantage of having an electric car when you get to your destination.
Is there something that I am missing?
Aaron
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A little Yamaha 2400 4-stroke inverter generator gets 14.8kwh/gal. Big
ugly Onan NHD commercial gets 4.6 kwh/gal.
Danny
Jerry Rhodes wrote:
Aaron, I belive it should not be poop, pooped , I had several gen set
that I used in my bussines an 2 of the unit had 3 gal tanks an we
could run them all day ( 7-8 hrs) at 2000 to 3000w on 1 fulling so at
45mph an you run 8 hr, sounds like good mpg to me, YES it will add a
little polltion to the air but I do also every time I breath, cook,
work up a sweat, etc..or use my F-150 to haul 3-4 ElecTraks to a show.
The ev I'm building (1/4 scale 1929 Ford Woody pk) will have a trailer
hitch on her. Just my 2 cents
Jerry NW Ohio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aaron wrote:
> Is there something that I am missing?
It is worth considering how often you would be making that longer trip.
If it is infrequent enough, than it is probably both cleaner and cheaper
to rent an efficient ICE vehicle for the trip. If you need to make the
trip frequently enough, then it is probably cleaner (and possible not
much more expensive) to keep a second ICE vehicle for these longer
trips. It isn't too hard to find an ICE car that will do at least
30mpg, and will produce less emissions than a genset running on the same
fuel.
20mpg is pretty poor by modern standards for just about anything but a
larger truck or SUV, yet you would probably find it difficult to exceed
it by much with an EV/genset trailer combo. The pusher trailer option
is more efficient, and yet the best fuel economy I recall hearing from
people who've tried it is about 30mpg (highway!).
You also need to consider what speed you will be making that longer trip
at. Longer trips imply highway travel, and this means you need a large
generator (>10kW) if it is to supply your cruising energy. Don't forget
that hooking the generator trailer up to the EV *increases* its power
requirements even further.
People who've tried the generator range extender approach tend to report
that having a generator screaming away in back of them largely destroys
one of the nicest features of an EV, its silence.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David etc,
I found that if you run the water from the top head end tank (window washer
type) for 5 minutes after it is peeing out of the rear into a bucket or
recirculate pump, then the slow filling cells fill up. I guess the thing to do
is not to just stop because the last cell pees out as the manual recommends but
to keep the water trickling through to be sure. With the recommended cooling
spacing 1/2 - 1" between the batteries with base block separators, you should
be able to see if the cells are filled like a motor cycle translucent battery.
Maybe some lights between the batteries to see the levels might be cool.
yeah, he fried some but the trick is to not start the charger above 35C or
95F. Some fan cooling & a thermostat would be good to cut on the fans
thanks, Mark
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 11:48:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Ni-Cads Plain Text
Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
On 8 Sep 2006 at 8:34, Mark E. Hanson wrote: > I'm buying them from James
Weirick who got them from Saft's Lou > Magnarela. I thought he killed his
Safts. I seem to recall he literally melted the tops of at least some of
them with overcharging. I also thought you were concerned about the
automatic watering system missing a cell. Have you found a way to make sure
that won't happen? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EV List Assistant
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The other problem is that generator engines are generally not at all
well tuned for efficiency. Add the generator head losses, charger
losses, battery cycle losses, controller losses, and electric drive
motor losses and it's unlikely this will be competitive with the
original engine.
You might have a vehicle which had a gasoline engine and this will allow
you to run biodiesel. Still, it makes much more sense to simply buy a
biodiesel-capable vehicle.
The Capstone Microturbine is a quite efficient motor with a generator
head, as well as being very good on emissions. However, it's still
difficult to substantially improve on mpg over the original engine.
Danny
Phil Marino wrote:
Every so often someone asks this question. The problem with a
generator trailer is that you will produce MANY times the pollutants
of an equivalent ICE car. ( and probably twice the CO2). A modern ICE
car engine is very sophisticated and carefully controlled by it's
computer. Any small non-automotive engine will not even be close in
cleanliness of running or efficiency.
So, you have to ask what the benefit would be.
Phil
From: brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Generator Trailer
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
Greeting fellow EVers,
I've been playing with the idea of a generator trailer
for a little while now. I have the trailer, yes that
was the easy part. I am having great troubles finding
an affordable (<$1000) diesel/Bio diesel generator or
ever just the engine and I can attach the gen head
later. I didn't go through all this trouble just to
burn gas :p
I'm guessing I need 10-15KW. any suggestions? how are
the rest of you doing this?
thank you for your input!
Brian
81'Bradley GTII
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--- Begin Message ---
How much of the diode broke off?
If only the wire came off the end and that's all there is to it, it's
negative side is attached to the resistor (current would be flowing into the
resistor from the end attached to the diode).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:06 PM
Subject: Identifying diode direction.
http://www.geocities.com/bassoonii/MVC-012S.JPG
Reading diodes and resistors.can sometimes be confusing. This 10 ohm
resistor reads 17.6 ohms on the 20k scale through the diode. It won't
read
on lower scales through the diode & the resistor is on the positive side.
I
thought diodes were + on the marked side. This diode only reads + from
the
unmarked end. These components are brittle and when servicing the
contactor
they were hooked to they fell apart. I just wanted to be sure of polarity
when I connect new components. These are for reducing arcing as far as I
know. The contactor is part of a hydralic pump I'm using on my electric
chopper. So I guess the question is where positive and negative are
connected with this setup. I'd say positive to the resistor but the diode
marking would be the place you'd think. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> Given the flag terminals on the current batts, how can interconnects
> be permanently attached to at least the 3 batts on the lower level?
Industrial battery jumpers are almost always welded for reliability.
"Welding" between two lead pieces is more akin to soldering; you
basically floux them with soldering flux, then heat them quickly with a
torch so the lead melts and flows together. Doing it quickly with high
heat keeps the melting localized so the whole terminal doesn't melt;
just the immediate area of contact.
So, I'd use lead-dipped copper buss bars, with U-shaped ends to press on
over the flat flag terminals so it mechanically holds itself in position
until you heat it. Also put bends in the center of the buss bars, so
they don't travel straight between batteries; this allows "give" for
expansion/contraction/vibration, so it won't put stress on the
terminals. The batteries also need to be securely clamped in place; not
just dropped into a box where they can slide around a bit. Such a bar
would look sort of like this.
__ ____ __
|________/ \________|
> What terminal type would work best for permanent connections if
> new batts were installed?
It depends on the current you expect. Automotive posts carry high
currents the best. For lower currents, flag terminals like you have are
easier. For even lower currents, the 5/16" stud type can be used.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Mark E. Hanson wrote:
> I'm getting 14ea STM5-180's over the week-end and thought why
> can't you just tin plate the lugs with the solder & a torch?
> Seems like a lot easier than tinning chemically.
It depends on what you mean by "tinning". In electroplating, "tinning"
is tin plating with the metal tin; like a tin-coated steel can.
But in soldering, "tinning" means coating the base metal with solder; an
alloy of lead and tin. It's usually done by heating the solder until it
melts and wets the base metal (but not hot enough to melt the base
metal).
Lead-acid battery posts are lead; so for corrosion protection you want
to LEAD coat terminals, not "tin" them with tin or tin/lead solder.
Your STM5-180's are nickel-cadmium. Their terminals probably aren't
lead; they are more likely nickel. For corrosion resistance, you need to
coat your connectors with whatever metal the terminals are made of. If
it's nickel, nickel has such a high melting point that coating the
terminal with heat is not practical; electroplating is the only way.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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Mark McCurdy wrote:
> Gah, battery prices are inSANE in Arkansas. Just called Interstate
> batteries here, they said their 6v 115ah batteries were $73 each
Lead prices have gone up drastically, so anything made with it costs a
lot more.
Ordering them from somewhere else won't help much, either. Batteries are
heavy, so shipping costs are high.
That ain't all... copper has also gone up 4:1 in just the past couple of
years. Expect to pay a lot more for wire and motors, too.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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Danny Miller wrote:
> Add the generator head losses, charger losses, battery cycle
> losses, controller losses, and electric drive motor losses
> and it's unlikely this will be competitive with the original
> engine.
Note that there are *no* battery cycle losses running a genset range
extender bacause, in general, people don't use a genset large enough to
supply more energy than is being used just to move the vehicle. As a
result, the batteries are either not charging at all, or are charging
very little/slowly, since all of the genset output is consumed just
offsetting the energy consumed by moving the vehicle.
Consider that the largest readily available charger is probably the
PFC50. Let's assume 50A @ 240VAC input to the PFC50 from the genset:
this is 12kW, or about 16HP; at 95% efficiency, 15HP is available at the
output of the charger, and at 85% efficiency (about the peak for an
EV-size series DC motor), a bit under 13HP is available at the
'crankshaft'. A small ICE car (with no trailer) requires about this
much power to maintain 55MPH in still air on level ground (I think 10HP
is about the best I've found on the EPA website). A genset that can
deliver 12kW continuously is neither small, light, or inexpensive...
Cheers,
Roger.
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Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> http://www.geocities.com/bassoonii/MVC-012S.JPG
> Reading diodes and resistors.can sometimes be confusing.
> This 10 ohm resistor reads 17.6 ohms on the 20k scale
> through the diode. It won't read on lower scales through
> the diode & the resistor is on the positive side.
So don't measure the resistor through the diode! ;^>
Your picture shows that you can easily connect your ohmmeter to the
resistor/diode junction and therefore measure the resistor alone using
the proper range on your meter for an accurate measurement.
If your meter has a diode function, you can also measure the diode alone
and determine which side side is the anode (+ve) or cathode (-ve).
As you note, with this sort of package the anode is usually identified
with a band, etc. on the diode body.
> I just wanted to be sure of polarity when I connect
> new components.
The resistor can be on either side of the diode; it doesn't matter. The
anode (+ve) side of the diode should connect to the side of the
contactor coil that is connected to +ve voltage (otherwise the diode
will conduct and short the coil whenever you try to energise the
contactor).
Hope this helps,
Roger.
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On the contrary the cycling losses should be present because the
generator is likely sized to meet the average, rather than peak, needs
of the vehicle. It will discharge quickly on accleration and charge
slowly during stops or constant-speed travel. Thus battery cycling
losses may well apply.
Danny
Roger Stockton wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
Add the generator head losses, charger losses, battery cycle
losses, controller losses, and electric drive motor losses
and it's unlikely this will be competitive with the original
engine.
Note that there are *no* battery cycle losses running a genset range
extender bacause, in general, people don't use a genset large enough to
supply more energy than is being used just to move the vehicle. As a
result, the batteries are either not charging at all, or are charging
very little/slowly, since all of the genset output is consumed just
offsetting the energy consumed by moving the vehicle.
Consider that the largest readily available charger is probably the
PFC50. Let's assume 50A @ 240VAC input to the PFC50 from the genset:
this is 12kW, or about 16HP; at 95% efficiency, 15HP is available at the
output of the charger, and at 85% efficiency (about the peak for an
EV-size series DC motor), a bit under 13HP is available at the
'crankshaft'. A small ICE car (with no trailer) requires about this
much power to maintain 55MPH in still air on level ground (I think 10HP
is about the best I've found on the EPA website). A genset that can
deliver 12kW continuously is neither small, light, or inexpensive...
Cheers,
Roger.
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I don't know if y'all have seen this:
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html
-but it suggests that there are a variety of range-extension possibilities once
you are on the EV platform. I had the idea of using turbines to drive 13KW
generators (like that kind that are used on airliners for auxilary power),
fitting into an auxilary mount on a converted pickup. They only weigh 90 lbs!
I'm a ways from getting there right now though...
-Ralph
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:42:07 -0500
Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The other problem is that generator engines are generally not at all
> well tuned for efficiency. Add the generator head losses, charger
> losses, battery cycle losses, controller losses, and electric drive
> motor losses and it's unlikely this will be competitive with the
> original engine.
>
> You might have a vehicle which had a gasoline engine and this will allow
> you to run biodiesel. Still, it makes much more sense to simply buy a
> biodiesel-capable vehicle.
>
> The Capstone Microturbine is a quite efficient motor with a generator
> head, as well as being very good on emissions. However, it's still
> difficult to substantially improve on mpg over the original engine.
>
> Danny
>
> Phil Marino wrote:
>
> >
> > Every so often someone asks this question. The problem with a
> > generator trailer is that you will produce MANY times the pollutants
> > of an equivalent ICE car. ( and probably twice the CO2). A modern ICE
> > car engine is very sophisticated and carefully controlled by it's
> > computer. Any small non-automotive engine will not even be close in
> > cleanliness of running or efficiency.
> >
> > So, you have to ask what the benefit would be.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >> From: brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Reply-To: [email protected]
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Subject: Generator Trailer
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
> >>
> >> Greeting fellow EVers,
> >> I've been playing with the idea of a generator trailer
> >> for a little while now. I have the trailer, yes that
> >> was the easy part. I am having great troubles finding
> >> an affordable (<$1000) diesel/Bio diesel generator or
> >> ever just the engine and I can attach the gen head
> >> later. I didn't go through all this trouble just to
> >> burn gas :p
> >> I'm guessing I need 10-15KW. any suggestions? how are
> >> the rest of you doing this?
> >> thank you for your input!
> >>
> >> Brian
> >> 81'Bradley GTII
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Windows Live Spaces is here! It_s easy to create your own personal Web
> > site. http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
> >
> >
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On 8 Sep 2006 at 12:08, Roger Stockton wrote:
> so the 6V battery
> with 19 plates per cell will have somewhat greater capacity than the 8V
> with just 15 plates per cell.
You'd expect them to be similar in Wh capacity, and there's where you learn
something interesting.
At C20 they are close, 1320 vs 1350 Wh. But at 75 amps, they're not. At
that current the US8VGC produces 750Wh, and the US2200 produces 864 Wh.
That's 15% more for the 6-volter.
Maybe if you gave the 8VGC a break and computed its capacity at 56 amps it
would be closer - but I'm too lazy to do that. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 8 Sep 2006 at 10:16, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> David? What's server's admin's take on this?
I don't know whether the SJSU server has such a feature. I kind of doubt
it, but I'll ask.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
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