EV Digest 5847
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Generator Trailer
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Generator Trailer
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Generator Trailer
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Identifying diode direction.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Generator Trailer
by Aaron Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tango in Hammacher Schlemmer catalog
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) USElectricar bus now available
by doug korthof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Batteries (8 volt vs. 6 volt)
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) OT: web host and domain name registrars
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Generator Trailer
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) e-meter installation
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: web host and domain name registrars
by "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Batteries (8 volt vs 6 volt)- again
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Generator Trailer
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) 10Kw Generator Motor
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Generator Trailer
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: e-meter installation
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Generator Trailer, also modern forklift parts
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: OT: web host and domain name registrars
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Generator Trailer
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Generator Trailer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: OT: web host and domain name registrars
by Jay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Generator Trailer
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: e-meter installation
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I hate to sound cranky, but I think I'm going to stop posting responses to
these APU questions. I feel like I'm wasting my time.
Seems as if lately the people who inquire have already made up their minds
that they're going to build an APU. I don't seem to be able to dissuade
them and the others here don't seem to succeed at it either - even the ones
who've done it and write about it.
There's nothing quite like the experience of frying expensive chargers,
listening to and feeling roaring, pounding engines when one is sitting at a
light, and inhaling hydrocarbon-laden exhaust, to change one's mind.
Darn shame it's apt to cost them a few grand to find out ...
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> On the contrary the cycling losses should be present because the
> generator is likely sized to meet the average, rather than
> peak, needs of the vehicle. It will discharge quickly on
> accleration and charge slowly during stops or constant-speed
> travel. Thus battery cycling losses may well apply.
The key phase here is "may well apply", and I would dispute the "well"
;^>
If one uses the genset in a stop and go environment, then yes, there may
be times when the genset output is charging the batteries. However, as
you say, the genset will not be sized to meet the peak needs of the
vehicle. In fact, I illustrated that the genset will most likely be
undersized even for the *average* needs of the vehicle, which means the
batteries will be discharging under most conditions and only charge
while the vehicle is stopped or moving very slowly. "Cycling" losses
would be due to the difference between the charge and discharge voltages
since the batteries never get fully recharged and so the inefficiency
associated with the last 10-20% of charge is avoided.
If one is using the range extender to travel a long distance, it is
likely that most of that distance will normally be travelled at higher
speeds such that very little, if any, of the time would the genset
actually have excess capacity available to charge the batteries. So,
while 'cycling' losses *may* apply during portions of such a trip, I
suspect they will be a very small factor.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One burning question I've had for a while is:
Why does the entire locomotive industry use a battery-less combo of diesel
generator and electric drivetrain? I would assume that the rail frieght
industry is more sensitive to fuel costs than the average consumer is, by
many orders of magnitude. (i.e. less fuel = more efficient = less shipping
cost = more profit)
Is the diesel-electric technology something that doesn't "scale down" to
the size of a 2 or 4-seater? Are they using electric for other reasons?
(increased torque, better braking, lower maintenence, etc.)
Introductory reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_locomotive#Diesel-electric
Big diesel-electric locomotive manufacturers:
http://www.emdiesels.com
https://www.getransportation.com/general/locomotives/loco_models.asp
Page 2 of this PDF has a great diagram of a locomotive, showing the
electric drive system:
https://www.getransportation.com/general/locomotives/parts/documents/20019-A_Parts.pdf
My assesment is that it is certainly possible to make a genset/motor combo
drive system that is *more* efficent than an ICE, but that the research
and development has not yet been done, thus, our "pieced together"
solutions are poor substitutes for an engineered solution. It seems to me
that if it works for locomotives, it should work for passenger vehicles as
well.
Anyone want to try to source a locomotive motor from GE and build a "Black
Zombie." Step 1: Find a car with a 20 ton GVWR. Step 2: ??? Step 3:
Profit!
https://www.getransportation.com/general/locomotives/parts/EMD/EMD_Traction_Motors.asp
Steve
On Fri, September 8, 2006 12:42 pm, Danny Miller wrote:
> The other problem is that generator engines are generally not at all
> well tuned for efficiency. Add the generator head losses, charger losses,
> battery cycle losses, controller losses, and electric drive motor losses
> and it's unlikely this will be competitive with the original engine.
>
> You might have a vehicle which had a gasoline engine and this will allow
> you to run biodiesel. Still, it makes much more sense to simply buy a
> biodiesel-capable vehicle.
>
> The Capstone Microturbine is a quite efficient motor with a generator
> head, as well as being very good on emissions. However, it's still
> difficult to substantially improve on mpg over the original engine.
>
> Danny
>
>
> Phil Marino wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Every so often someone asks this question. The problem with a
>> generator trailer is that you will produce MANY times the pollutants of
>> an equivalent ICE car. ( and probably twice the CO2). A modern ICE car
>> engine is very sophisticated and carefully controlled by it's computer.
>> Any small non-automotive engine will not even be close in
>> cleanliness of running or efficiency.
>>
>> So, you have to ask what the benefit would be.
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>> From: brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: Generator Trailer
>>> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
>>>
>>>
>>> Greeting fellow EVers,
>>> I've been playing with the idea of a generator trailer
>>> for a little while now. I have the trailer, yes that was the easy part.
>>> I am having great troubles finding
>>> an affordable (<$1000) diesel/Bio diesel generator or ever just the
>>> engine and I can attach the gen head later. I didn't go through all
>>> this trouble just to burn gas :p I'm guessing I need 10-15KW. any
>>> suggestions? how are the rest of you doing this? thank you for your
>>> input!
>>>
>>> Brian
>>> 81'Bradley GTII
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
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>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live Spaces is here! ItÂ’s easy to create your own personal Web
>> site. http://spaces.live.com/signup.aspx
>>
>>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
The wire broke off each component flush. Just enough sticking out to
measure. It is exactly opposite from what you'd think. If this combo was
hooked up to the contactor 12v system inputs I'd hood positive to the marked
end of the diode. Negative to the resistor side. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Identifying diode direction.
> How much of the diode broke off?
> If only the wire came off the end and that's all there is to it, it's
> negative side is attached to the resistor (current would be flowing into
the
> resistor from the end attached to the diode).
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:06 PM
> Subject: Identifying diode direction.
>
>
> > http://www.geocities.com/bassoonii/MVC-012S.JPG
> > Reading diodes and resistors.can sometimes be confusing. This 10 ohm
> > resistor reads 17.6 ohms on the 20k scale through the diode. It won't
> > read
> > on lower scales through the diode & the resistor is on the positive
side.
> > I
> > thought diodes were + on the marked side. This diode only reads + from
> > the
> > unmarked end. These components are brittle and when servicing the
> > contactor
> > they were hooked to they fell apart. I just wanted to be sure of
polarity
> > when I connect new components. These are for reducing arcing as far as
I
> > know. The contactor is part of a hydralic pump I'm using on my electric
> > chopper. So I guess the question is where positive and negative are
> > connected with this setup. I'd say positive to the resistor but the
diode
> > marking would be the place you'd think. Lawrence Rhodes......
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electroplating is not the only way. There is liquid Nickel. I was quoted
150 dollars for a couple hundred small buss bars and lugs. They do it by
the square inch. They recommended 1mil or .001". They load up a barrel
with the chemical and slowly rotate it so all the parts are coated equally.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Tin Plating lugs for Ni-Cads
> Mark E. Hanson wrote:
> > I'm getting 14ea STM5-180's over the week-end and thought why
> > can't you just tin plate the lugs with the solder & a torch?
> > Seems like a lot easier than tinning chemically.
>
> It depends on what you mean by "tinning". In electroplating, "tinning"
> is tin plating with the metal tin; like a tin-coated steel can.
>
> But in soldering, "tinning" means coating the base metal with solder; an
> alloy of lead and tin. It's usually done by heating the solder until it
> melts and wets the base metal (but not hot enough to melt the base
> metal).
>
> Lead-acid battery posts are lead; so for corrosion protection you want
> to LEAD coat terminals, not "tin" them with tin or tin/lead solder.
>
> Your STM5-180's are nickel-cadmium. Their terminals probably aren't
> lead; they are more likely nickel. For corrosion resistance, you need to
> coat your connectors with whatever metal the terminals are made of. If
> it's nickel, nickel has such a high melting point that coating the
> terminal with heat is not practical; electroplating is the only way.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Im sorry to have stirred up the hornets nest on this topic. I have not made
up my mind on this topic. I am not even in the process of building building
an EV, but this question is on my list of things to research. In fact I have
not even come to the conclusion that I could build an ev to meet my
requirements.
If it is technically not feasible or there are expensive problems (like a
fried charger) then I think there is just cause to not try this. However,
the only reasons that I have seen are emmissions, mpg, and noise (which I
would rank the highest of these isues). If
I can get a 15kW (surge 22.5kW) portable generator (electric starter, auto
idle, 16 gal tank, 10 hr @half load runtime) from Home Depot for $2000. I
would think that if that were not enough I could find another generator that
would for not too much more money. Also since the operation of the trailer
would be infrequent several people in the same local area could pitch in on
it to reduce the cost (just have to share :) ).
My whole thinking behind the trailer is that it should get >20mpg ,recharge
the batteries while I drive (this would allow 1000 miles trips), and be a
reliable addition to an ev. If these were obtainable then I think the gen
trailer would make sense for an ev that makes a few long trips a year.
thanks,
Aaron
On Friday 08 September 2006 03:55 pm, David Roden wrote:
> I hate to sound cranky, but I think I'm going to stop posting responses to
> these APU questions. I feel like I'm wasting my time.
>
> Seems as if lately the people who inquire have already made up their minds
> that they're going to build an APU. I don't seem to be able to dissuade
> them and the others here don't seem to succeed at it either - even the ones
> who've done it and write about it.
>
> There's nothing quite like the experience of frying expensive chargers,
> listening to and feeling roaring, pounding engines when one is sitting at a
> light, and inhaling hydrocarbon-laden exhaust, to change one's mind.
>
> Darn shame it's apt to cost them a few grand to find out ...
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, where is the isolated charger that I once heard about, the
PFC40I(?), in your things-to-do list? I know L is sexy and
what-not, but there are a lot of us out there wishing for
isolated chargers.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: Tango in Hammacher Schlemmer catalog
> Yea I have the Catalog cover screwed to the wall behind my
power bench...
> It keeps me motivated while I test and tune the Killer water
cooled chargers
> that I make for them.
>
> The PFC40LM for liquid cooled with line current meter...
> It lists for $2800. You are paying for both the power and the
pain in the
> neck small package.
> The PFC50s give better Wats per dollar but are twice the size
and weight.
>
> OK.. I can hear Ryan Bohm... "Rich??? Where's the Digi photo of
that
> charger??
>
> I have one on hand and will load it up and get some data and
photos, Shot
> for us all.
>
> I just go the first complete NON hacked up unit on hand last
night... The
> ones that live in the Tangos now are prototypes.
> This has been about a 2 year incremental design upgrade. 9600
watts in 1/2 a
> cubic foot is getting pretty tight.
>
> The Aluminum heat sink is a work of art By my Dad and I. I
could hang one on
> the wall and be proud of it.
>
> I also have a pair of tricked out 40HM units with a copper
thermal spreader
> and twin 41 CFM fans in them. The PFC30s have 25 CFM fans...
these should
> really pump some air.
> Lots of new stuff, and orders up the Gazzu..
>
> More watts in ever smaller packages... seams to keep the orders
flowing my
> way.
> Didn't somebody say we could all live with smaller chargers???
> Bahh Humbug!... That's not what you all are paying me to make!
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EVDL post" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:50 PM
> Subject: Tango in Hammacher Schlemmer catalog
>
>
> > One of my co-workers pointed out the Tango in his Hammacher
> > Schlemmer catalog. It's in the Holiday Preview 2006 edition,
> > p.8, listed as "The 120M.P.H. Electric Car". The red Tango
looks
> > quite menacing with its bright lights on against a blue
backdrop.
> >
> > The Tango is also at Hammacher's homepage at
> > http://hammacher.com. I dropped one into my shopping bag for
a
> > cool 108 kilobucks, but unfortunately gift wrapping was
> > unavailable. I doubt Santa would be able to get it down my
> > chimney anyways, so that's as far as it went, but I do
imagine it
> > would make a great gift for that s.o. in your life.
> >
> > Rick Woodbury, creator of the Tango, dropped into a NBEAA
meeting
> > back in Feb. 2004. Story and photos at
> > http://nbeaa.org/html/040214pastmeetings2004.html.
> >
> > Chuck Hursch
> > Larkspur, CA
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> > http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
> >
>
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--- Begin Message ---
An EV enthusiast has a running US Electricar bus, about 22 passenger,
with nominal max speed of 40 miles and nominal top speed of (up to) 40 mph.
Pics coming soon, with model numbers, etc., but this is a headsup, 40
T-105, dual DC-DC and Controllers/motors, belt drive, and body is straight.
I drove it once, really you are not going to get past 20 mph unless
you install a higher gear; but this bus is an amazing historical
artifact with very few miles on it.
You can get more info by email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (another
doug); he's planning to put it on EBAY but would like some info about
it, also, would sell it before it goes to EBAY if anyone wants it, imo.
Located in Anaheim, CA, near Crescent and Magnolia; pics coming soon.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Batteries (8 volt vs. 6 volt)
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:55:04 -0400
On 8 Sep 2006 at 12:08, Roger Stockton wrote:
> so the 6V battery
> with 19 plates per cell will have somewhat greater capacity than the 8V
> with just 15 plates per cell.
You'd expect them to be similar in Wh capacity, and there's where you learn
something interesting.
At C20 they are close, 1320 vs 1350 Wh. But at 75 amps, they're not. At
that current the US8VGC produces 750Wh, and the US2200 produces 864 Wh.
That's 15% more for the 6-volter.
Maybe if you gave the 8VGC a break and computed its capacity at 56 amps it
would be closer - but I'm too lazy to do that. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
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Roger-
If you look at their performance at the same POWER, (not current) here are
the results:
8VGC - 56 amps * 8V * 121 minutes = 903.5 watt-hours ( this is 448 watt draw
at nominal batt voltage)
2200 - 75 amps * 6V * 115 minutes = 863 watt-hours ( this is 450 watt draw
at nominal batt voltage)
SO - the 8 volter ( at least, according to the info on US batteries' site)
has 5% more energy avaialble at the same power draw as the 6 volter. This
makes sense: it has more of the same cells and weighs a bit more.
We keep ending up at the same conclusion: if you draw the same POWER from
each battery, the 8 volter is a little better. If you draw the same CURRENT
( meaning more power from the 8 volter). of course the 6 volter will last
longer.
This does not include the benefits ( lower cable losses, etc) of the higher
voltage, lower current system.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I know many on this list have web sites from personal to business. I am
planning to start up my own EV web site soon and am looking for
suggestions on web hosts and domain name registrars. I'm not looking
for the lowest cost - reliable service, speed, and business integrity
are more important to me.
I would like to hear who you recommend, and your horror stories, for
both registering a domain name and for hosting a site (they don't have
to be the same.) Data about the amount of web traffic per month would
also help me decide what level of hosting I need.
Since this is somewhat off topic (even though its for an EV site) feel
free to respond to me off list (paul-g at comcast dot net). I will post
a summary of what I learn to the list.
Thanx,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
By "liquid nickel", I presume you mean electroless plating.
It sure does exist.
I've been satisfactorily using Caswell's electroless nickel solutions for
plating screws, handles and other items for my 1921 Milburn Light Electric.
Disposal is not a problem with this approach.
Caswell's electroless nickel kit comes with an end-plate solution you add to
your batch when it's rendered useless or you're done. You're supposed to mix
it, then poor it down the drain.
I haven't got to that part yet...
-MT, Portland, Or.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> http://www.electro-coatings.com/ Talk to Kyle Smith.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] These guys will probably do all your buss bars
> and lugs for 150 dollars. Liquid Nickle does exist but disposal is a
> problem. Lawrence......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:24 PM 9/8/2006, Aaron Richardson wrote:
If it is technically not feasible or there are expensive problems (like a
fried charger) then I think there is just cause to not try this. However,
the only reasons that I have seen are emmissions, mpg, and noise (which I
would rank the highest of these isues).
Yup. I'm actually considering doing something like taking a used
small car engine (with all emissions controls, and muffler!) and
using that as the generator power.
For some reason, all the "oh my god, those generators are awful
polluters" never seem to think of this variation.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I am getting ready to install my e-meter.
Someone posted a message about how to install it. I
read the instructions, but I wish I could find those
detailed instructions.
Also I don't have the 16-18 gauge twisted pair wire.
I have two sets of that stuff from my pedal-pot.
Perhaps I should use that? I guess CAT5 ethernet cable
would be too thin?
Also does battery acid eat polystrene insulation?
I wanted to put some under my Pb Acid batteries.
Thanks
Mike
Fairbanks
86 Toyota PU
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--- Begin Message ---
I have had excellent experiences with www.GoDaddy.com for registering and
hosting.
Good luck.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:16 PM
Subject: OT: web host and domain name registrars
Hi,
I know many on this list have web sites from personal to business. I am
planning to start up my own EV web site soon and am looking for
suggestions on web hosts and domain name registrars. I'm not looking for
the lowest cost - reliable service, speed, and business integrity are more
important to me.
I would like to hear who you recommend, and your horror stories, for both
registering a domain name and for hosting a site (they don't have to be
the same.) Data about the amount of web traffic per month would also help
me decide what level of hosting I need.
Since this is somewhat off topic (even though its for an EV site) feel
free to respond to me off list (paul-g at comcast dot net). I will post a
summary of what I learn to the list.
Thanx,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This topic has been discussed a lot on the list. Generally I'd suggest
6v batteries (no, generally I'd suggest AGMs :-) but there are some
applications where the 8v seems to make sense to me.
One is when trying to get the GC battery economy out of a very small
car (like an Echo.) It would be tricky to get a good motor/pack match
with 6v GC batteries. You don't want the motor falling asleep at 2400
rpm. One such small car match for 6v lead would be finding a 48v
Prestolite motor instead of the more common ADC 8 inch.
Another time is when trying to use an already installed motor. An ADC 9
inch motor must fall asleep at a pretty low rpm in a 96v system. They
make 88 ft/lb. of torque at 400 amps vs. 64 ft/lb. for the smaller 8
inch or Prestolite MTC. It may well work better in a 128v system at 300
amps max.
Just ideas,
Paul G.
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--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> Yup. I'm actually considering doing something like taking a used
> small car engine (with all emissions controls, and muffler!) and
> using that as the generator power.
> For some reason, all the "oh my god, those generators are awful
> polluters" never seem to think of this variation.
Nonsense; that approach has been mentioned several times in the past
(though not until now in this particular, as I recall ;^).
Problem is that most people who start asking about genset range
extenders seem to have in mind being able to pick up a portable 4-5kW
(at best!) consumer-grade genset, throw it on a trailer, and drive their
EV 1000mi.
If you are willing to build your own genset from an ICE engine, then you
can do much better, although poular opinion is still that if you were
going to go that route it would be more efficient (and probably easier)
to make a pusher trailer out of the genset donor vehicle instead. A
notable exception to this is if your EV happens to be a pickup, and you
can place the small-car based genset in the pickup box instead of having
to tow a trailer (especially if your commute involves a ferry where a
trailer will cost extra ;^). Just bear in mind that the ICE from a
small car had enough power to move the small car at highway speeds; no
matter how beefy a generator head you put on it, it probably won't be
able to push a much larger & heavier vehicle along at similar speeds, or
at least not without failing prematurely.
Cheers,
Roger.
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I was at Harbor Freight today looking to get a lathe, and saw they had a
10kw generator motor for $279.
It said it was brushless and 1750rpm. I wonder if this could be used
for an EV motor?
Jack
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--- Begin Message ---
At 05:27 PM 9/8/2006, Roger Stockton wrote:
If you are willing to build your own genset from an ICE engine, then you
can do much better, although poular opinion is still that if you were
going to go that route it would be more efficient (and probably easier)
to make a pusher trailer out of the genset donor vehicle instead.
Ahh, except for one HUGE advantage to the genset.
You can use it to power your house when the power is out!
small car had enough power to move the small car at highway speeds; no
matter how beefy a generator head you put on it, it probably won't be
able to push a much larger & heavier vehicle along at similar speeds, or
at least not without failing prematurely.
Yup, but even when travelling long distances, I don't usually drive
1000 miles without a break!
So even if it doesn't quite keep up with power requirements, it
should extend the range considerably.
Of course, if I do the F250 conversion, I'll probably need a 20KW or
so genset. So I'd likely use a medium sized small car engine.
The hard part seems to be finding generator heads. The 7-10KW units
from HarborFreight are only $300, but anything larger seems to jump
WAY up in price.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
> Someone posted a message about how to install it. I
> read the instructions, but I wish I could find those
> detailed instructions.
I think the only thing you need to do is ensure you connect the right
wire to the right terminal, and just to be on the safe side, connect the
ground connections (ground and the shunt sense) first.
The one really major thing to observe is that the shunt *MUST* be
installed in the pack -ve lead, and nothing should be connected to the
battery side other than the traction cable to the -ve most battery post.
> Also I don't have the 16-18 gauge twisted pair wire.
If you have 16-18ga wire, just chuck two lengths into a hand drill and
clamp the other ends in a bench vise (or similar), then spin the drill
slowly whiel holding the wires lightly taut until the desired amount of
twisting has been imparted to the entire length.
Make sure you allow af fair bit more length than you really need because
the twisted pair will be shorter than the untwisted wires you started
with.
I would suggest making 3 pairs:
- one for shunt +/- sense
- one for pack voltage sense (B+/B-)
- one for supply voltage (isolated +12V & its return)
Hope this helps,
Roger.
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G'day All
Maybe off the wall here, since I don't know anything about steam vs
polution, but would it be practical to do a steam engine APU? Run it from
biodiedel if you want to be carbon-neutral?
I had a long talk yesterday with someone who a) makes biodiesel, b) has
his own micro-hydro that generates excess power [has left a lot of his
lights turned on for 15 years] and c) imports forklifts from Japan.
The upshot of this is that he is interested in building an EV, and
range-extending using biodiesel. In addition he asks about forklift parts.
Last trip to Japan he could have got a 120V 10kW(ish) AC drive forklift
that ran on tracks for around $1500Aus (around $1100US)(without the track
system). Battery pack, charging system, 10kW inverter and motor. I'm
thinking 10kW maybe a bit undersized for an on-road EV, so maybe he looks
for one of these for the batteries (comes with central watering system) and
charger, and he looks for a DC fork in the 48V/20kW range to get the
traction motor and finds the dollars for a Zilla.
Comments?
Regards
[Technik] James
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--- Begin Message ---
I've had good luck with www.godaddy.com for both domain name registration and
web hosting. Their rates are decent and their help desk was always responsive.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, September 8, 2006 3:23 pm
Subject: OT: web host and domain name registrars
To: [email protected]
> Hi,
>
> I know many on this list have web sites from personal to business.
> I am
> planning to start up my own EV web site soon and am looking for
> suggestions on web hosts and domain name registrars. I'm not
> looking
> for the lowest cost - reliable service, speed, and business
> integrity
> are more important to me.
>
> I would like to hear who you recommend, and your horror stories,
> for
> both registering a domain name and for hosting a site (they don't
> have
> to be the same.) Data about the amount of web traffic per month
> would
> also help me decide what level of hosting I need.
>
> Since this is somewhat off topic (even though its for an EV site)
> feel
> free to respond to me off list (paul-g at comcast dot net). I will
> post
> a summary of what I learn to the list.
>
> Thanx,
> Paul "neon" G.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
I have been thinking about this idea for a long time. I am actually
thinking to modify the engine a bit.
First, remove the push rods and fuel injectors from 2 cylinders so
that the valves are always close and no fuel is injected. This
effectively make it a 2-cylinder engine and reduce the power by more
than half. This means the throttle open larger for the same load,
reducing pumping loss and increasing the efficiency.
Second, modified the cam shaft to make it an Atkinson cycle. Do what
the Prius engine does by closing the intake valve late into the
compression cycle. This further increase the efficiency.
The idea is to make the engine smaller than it actually is so that it
is used at a high load condition where the efficiency is the highest.
On 9/8/06, John G. Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 03:24 PM 9/8/2006, Aaron Richardson wrote:
>If it is technically not feasible or there are expensive problems (like a
>fried charger) then I think there is just cause to not try this. However,
>the only reasons that I have seen are emmissions, mpg, and noise (which I
>would rank the highest of these isues).
Yup. I'm actually considering doing something like taking a used
small car engine (with all emissions controls, and muffler!) and
using that as the generator power.
For some reason, all the "oh my god, those generators are awful
polluters" never seem to think of this variation.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John wrote:
Yup. I'm actually considering doing something like taking a used
small car engine (with all emissions controls, and muffler!) and
using that as the generator power.
For some reason, all the "oh my god, those generators are awful
polluters" never seem to think of this variation.
You might want to check out Alain St Yves projects at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/122
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/682
and on his own site at:
http://www.vehiculevert.org/levehiculevert/index.php?lien=generateur
He also built a larger trailer mounted one with a Ford engine, but
the page is only in French. You can find it at:
http://vehiculevert.org/levehiculevert/index.php?lien=baie-james
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
StoreMenu.com does websites for free and puts extra
effort into preferred projects like environment,
charities, etc.
--- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've had good luck with www.godaddy.com for both
> domain name registration and web hosting. Their
> rates are decent and their help desk was always
> responsive.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Friday, September 8, 2006 3:23 pm
> Subject: OT: web host and domain name registrars
> To: [email protected]
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I know many on this list have web sites from
> personal to business.
> > I am
> > planning to start up my own EV web site soon and
> am looking for
> > suggestions on web hosts and domain name
> registrars. I'm not
> > looking
> > for the lowest cost - reliable service, speed, and
> business
> > integrity
> > are more important to me.
> >
> > I would like to hear who you recommend, and your
> horror stories,
> > for
> > both registering a domain name and for hosting a
> site (they don't
> > have
> > to be the same.) Data about the amount of web
> traffic per month
> > would
> > also help me decide what level of hosting I need.
> >
> > Since this is somewhat off topic (even though its
> for an EV site)
> > feel
> > free to respond to me off list (paul-g at comcast
> dot net). I will
> > post
> > a summary of what I learn to the list.
> >
> > Thanx,
> > Paul "neon" G.
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:09 PM 9/8/2006, Edward Ang wrote:
The idea is to make the engine smaller than it actually is so that it
is used at a high load condition where the efficiency is the highest.
Well, having a little car engine drive a 20KW genset at full power IS
a high load condition.
It will also wear the engine out faster.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
If you are running over 20 foot you need the 16-18 gage stranded tin double
shield wire.
You can get the Link-10 wire from evparts.com.
If you have a Link-10, you can get installation from Xantrex at
1-800-670-0707 or email Xantrex at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The rear terminal strip on the Link-10 is as follows:
(1) DC- Meter Negative (BLACK)
(2) Shunt Sense Lead Load Side (GREEN)
(3) Shunt Sense Lead Battery Side (ORANGE)
(4) Battery Volt Sense (0-50V DC) (BLUE)
(5) DC+ Meter Power (9.5-40V DC) (RED)
(6) Optional Temperature Sensor Input
(7) Optional Low Battery Alarm
(8) Optional Temperature Sensor Ground
For Voltages 50V a Prescaler must be used.
I used a prescaler that also has a DC-DC converter built in which
isolates the 12 volts from either a 12 volt battery or from a power DC-DC
converter.
Start connecting the wires, starting at terminal #1 and precede to #8
Line-10 Installation at the battery end:
Its it best to install a terminal strip No. 1 to 8 at that end, which
terminates the 4 pair Link-10 wire that goes to the Link-10 Emeter.
12V Accessory Battery negative (-) connects to the black wire on the Link-10
DC-DC converter and comes out (brown) and goes to (1) on the terminal strip.
12V Accessory Battery positive (+) connects to a 2 amp fuse which connects
to the white wire on the Link-10 DC-DC converter and comes out blue to No. 5
on the terminal strip.
The battery pack plus (+) goes through a 2 amp fuse that goes to the red
(tagged) wire on the Link-10 prescaler and may come out red or yellow
(tagged) that goes to No. 4 on the terminal strip.
The battery pack negative (-) comes from the shunt load side (large bolt)
and also goes to No. 1 on the terminal strip (which is combined with the 12
v neg (-) brown wire)
A length of twisted pair No. 18 wire gos to the sense screws on the shunt.
Load side goes to No. 2 on the terminal strip and the Battery side goes to
No. 3 on the terminal strip.
First connect all the wires to the back of the E-meter first starting at 1
and go to 8.
Connect the other end of the 4 pair cable end to the terminal strip No. 1 to
8.
Leave the 2 amp fuses out of the fuse holder until you get all the wiring
done.
Now connect Link-10 prescaler and built in 12 volt isolater or separate
DC-DC 12 volt converter to the terminal strip.
Connect the 12 volt power lead to the 2 amp fuse holder and then to the
DC-DC isolator.
Connect the battery pack voltage to the 2 amp fuse holder and then to the
prescaler.
Once you completed all the wiring, insert the 12 volt fuse first and than
the battery pack fuse last!
IT SHOULD BE CONNECTED IN ONE SMOOTH MOTION. If you don't then it may cause
a meter lockup.
I used fuse holders that are mounted on terminal strips that uses a terminal
strip disconnect switch, which works good.
You will need the manual to be able to synchronize the Emeter, setting
battery capacity, charged parameters, how to do resets, and then there are
17 other settings to do.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: e-meter installation
> I am getting ready to install my e-meter.
>
> Someone posted a message about how to install it. I
> read the instructions, but I wish I could find those
> detailed instructions.
>
> Also I don't have the 16-18 gauge twisted pair wire.
> I have two sets of that stuff from my pedal-pot.
> Perhaps I should use that? I guess CAT5 ethernet cable
> would be too thin?
>
> Also does battery acid eat polystrene insulation?
> I wanted to put some under my Pb Acid batteries.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
> Fairbanks
> 86 Toyota PU
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
