EV Digest 5858
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: PFC20 acting strange
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re:Reverse and NHRA/Nedra
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: PFC20 acting strange
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Karmann Ghia conversion
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Batteries "losing" a cell? How to recover?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: i'm Very skeptical
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: subaru adapter plate help.
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Zap Zebra gets Zapped
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Veggie oil hybrid setup
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Karmann Ghia conversion
by Daniel Eyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Veggie oil hybrid setup
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) When will it AIR - When will it be Published
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Removing BB600 odd nuts
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Noise suppression: effect of bundling wires
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) BB600/USE truck update
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Batteries "losing" a cell? How to recover?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
It is one of the older chargers (PFC20B #92) Which you and I agree needs
a different board to go with the MK2B regs.( i am just broke)
I caught this because I turn it up to 4 amps when I first start charging
then turn it down to 2.5 or 3(depending on how much it has charged)
before I turn in for the night. When I first get up in the morning, I go
out and turn the current control down to about 500ma, where the green
leds strobe at about 1 a second and that helps it spend more time
charging and brings up the last few batteries by the time I am ready for
work.
Current control is very smooth like you indicate. The second time it did
this, just closing the car door was enough to get it charging again. It
seems unlikely that I have a dirty pot or have worn a spot in the pot
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Toyota Prius uses its electric motor only for packing up, with a
range of 2-3 miles only. I think it only critical that you can
backup far enough to turn around. A 100 feet should be over kill.
At 9/10/2006 01:05 PM, you wrote:
I was talking to a nedra hi up yesterday and he informed me my reverse was
not REAL.I do have a reverse on the dragster that lets me backup over 300
feet.On the Street/Strip truck I am building I will use the same
setup but with a
few more AH battery.It should have a foward range of 25 miles and be able to
backup about 700feet.I have read both the NHRA and nedra rules both of which
require reverse but do not stipulate how far one should be able to
back up.I have
not read the Arizona motor book but I do not think they will ask me
to back up
700ft to register this truck.The nedra member seems to think I bend all the
rules including this one,so Nedra how far must one be able to go in reverse?
There were many records set by nedra racers who did not have reverse
at all do
these records
count?
My reverse does not use the zillas reverse but just 1 small single pole
contactor and 2 #4 wires to the motor with a 13ah battery and 250 amp lkn
fuse.The NHRA tech folks are happy with my setup why not
nedras?
Dennis Berube visit my
updated site
at currenteliminator.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff, I had the identically same thing happen, but
only once, with my charger at 144-178V, roughly 18A,
off a 220V line.
We were never able to figure out why, and pulling the
plug and restarting it was enough to get it on its
merry way again.
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is one of the older chargers (PFC20B #92) Which
> you and I agree needs
> a different board to go with the MK2B regs.( i am
> just broke)
>
> I caught this because I turn it up to 4 amps when I
> first start charging
> then turn it down to 2.5 or 3(depending on how much
> it has charged)
> before I turn in for the night. When I first get up
> in the morning, I go
> out and turn the current control down to about
> 500ma, where the green
> leds strobe at about 1 a second and that helps it
> spend more time
> charging and brings up the last few batteries by the
> time I am ready for
> work.
>
> Current control is very smooth like you indicate.
> The second time it did
> this, just closing the car door was enough to get it
> charging again. It
> seems unlikely that I have a dirty pot or have worn
> a spot in the pot
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fair warning: Somebody somewhere had put together a
flyer when it showed in Ashland, OR. It discussed
PHEVs and the Tango. Very slick, up to date.
Hopefully it's being included as the film itself is
being distributed!
peace,
--- gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sure, make a simple flyer with the EEA web info and
> (hopefully) local
> chapter info and tell people to support homegrown
> efforts. This will
> result in more cars available locally. I bet a lot
> of chapters would be
> willing and able to convert cars for people that
> wanted to buy the
> parts. With enough growth, the EAA could help with
> marketing, financing
> and insuring.
>
> gary
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Don
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:11 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
>
> Go to this link:
>
http://mwpai.org/performingarts/performances/filmseries/#1662
>
> I just found out about this performance this
> morning. It's occurring
> later this week. Wish I were more prepared to
> support it with EV
> literature, etc. Any suggestions what I might do to
> support EV's during
> these shows? I don't have much time to prepare.
>
>
> The shows are Wednesday Sept 13 & Friday September
> 15 2 PM & 7:30 PM
> both days
>
> I'm open to suggestions and any support you might
> offer
>
> Thanks
>
> Don B. Davidson III
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 117 Dean St
> Rome, NY 13440
> 315 337 2124
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do not bother purchasing the conversion plans off of eBay. This may be a
copy of information freely available on various web sites. Spend some time
searching the web, there is lots of information.
Also check out the FAQ at evparts.com
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rachel
Sent: September 10, 2006 11:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Karmann Ghia conversion
Hello All, I have a 71 Karmann Ghia (semi-automatic) I would like to
convert to electric. I have found that a couple of people on the internet
that have already done conversions on their Ghias, so I know that it can be
done. I do not have any experiance working on cars, and have not found
anyone that I can hire to help me, as far as converting the car. I really
love this car, but if I had to, I would sell it to buy an EV. Would be ideal
to have both together. I have been looking at the how to convert plans on
Ebay. I don't want to gut the car, and then find that I can't do it. Does
anyone have any suggestions on where to start? Maybe a kit that might work?
I am only looking for modest performance,, maybe 45 miles an hour/ 40-45
mile range. My budget is also unfortunately modest, so I would have to learn
to do as much as possible myself. I had my first EV, an Ego scooter all
summer, and I don't want to go back to using an ICE. I am in RI, does anyone
know if there is someon!
e in the area (New England) that works on EVs? I totally new to all this
and any info to start me in the right direction would be great!! Thanks to
all for your time and knowledge, Rachel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A good reference for battery data, is from the Standard Handbook For
Electrical Engineers by Mcgraw-Hill Publishing Co.
There is a complete section on batteries, design, maintenance, charging, and
testing.
They state that when a AGM or Jell type battery is at a low rate of
discharge, the capacity may be reduced from 5 to 10 percent, but at high
rate of discharge it may decrease from 30 to 40 percent.
This type of electrolyte diminishes it rate of diffusion, (recovering of
acid from the negative plates when the battery is at rest which you see the
battery voltage rise)
The problem with a seal battery, you cannot do a cell test or a separated
cell charge. A cadmium test can be done with a a open type cell by
inserting cadmium coated probes into the electrolyte with a cap type holder.
You can read the voltage of each cell.
The normal voltage should hold at 1.8 volts when discharge at a normal rate.
You can then charge that one cell with a 2 to 2.5 volt charger to match the
other cells.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:40 PM
Subject: Batteries "losing" a cell? How to recover?
> Can anybody explain this and offer an opinion as to
> whether this can be recovered or better replaced:
>
> On the US Electricar site, one of the members (Chris)
> reported 4 months ago that he had several batteries
> that dropped to 10V under load (100A) but read fine
> when not loaded and freshly charged.
> There was not really an impact on range, the pack
> voltage just read a few volts lower in most cases.
>
> Yesterday I checked my AGM batteries and I found 3
> batteries that were different than the other 23 in
> that when I hooked up a 13.6V lab supply the current
> would start at zero, then s-l-o-w-l-y and increasingly
> faster rose to the current limit (3A) after which the
> voltage dropped to 13.2 and the battery continued to
> charge normally from this point onward.
>
> The weird thing is that these bad batteries had no
> effect on range or driving or pack charging, I always
> saw the current shoot to 10A immediately and I made
> several trips of more than 55 miles over the past weeks
> and that never was a problem.
>
> When I checked the pack yesterday I had driven 18 miles
> and when putting the pack on charge followed by equalisation
> I put around 25 Ah back into the pack (1 hour 10A followed
> by 15 hours of 2A falling to below 1A)
>
> The three bad batteries came up to 14.6V while the rest
> sat around 14.9V during equalisation, so I added the lab
> supply to boost the bad boys for several hours, putting
> around 1A in at 14.8V.
> They now sit at the same voltage when left alone for a while,
> around 13.3V
> When load-tested at 75A the "bad" batteries go to 11.4V in
> about 10 sec while the other batteries are still at 11.7V.
>
> Apparently they did not really lose a cell, but what was
> that strange effect with not taking a charge initially
> at 13.6V?
> I think Lee explained that this happens when a battery is
> completely discharged, so the electrolyte is pure water.
> You need to wait a bit to see the current climb while the
> battery is increasing the SG of the electrolyte, essentially
> turning it back into an acid by releasing the material
> from the electrodes.
>
> Did this battery lose capacity or charge and got damaged
> from a cell reversal - can that explain this odd behavior?
>
> Inquiring minds would like to know, to avoid damaging more
> batteries and know how/if to recover and what to do to
> avoid it, so the pack lives a long and happy life.
> (I know, I should add clampers or BMS, but that may be
> the solution, I now first want to know the cause.)
>
> BTW - I have 1 string of 26x 12V 110Ah batteries, so if
> there was a problem with conductivity in one battery,
> I could not drive. I have however never noticed a problem,
> I am logging my DC voltage/current and speed for most
> trips to work (but not the real long trips, unfortunately)
> and my controller cuts current back when the battery voltage
> falls to 273V (10.5V per battery) under load.
> There are no visual signs of any problem on the batteries
> and the 3 bad ones are spread through the pack.
> The other 23 seems to be pretty well balanced, so I do not
> understand this behavior.
>
> Anybody care to give an educated guess or resolution?
>
> For now I'll continue to charge the bad batteries for a
> while longer and see how they hold up after that.
> BTW, below a response from Chris on my email with this
> information on the US Electricar Yahoo group.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> Chris wrote:
> Very very interesting. Can you go out to Pep Boys, spend $40 and get a
> good quality battery tester? What you describe is spooky; I have the
> exact same results in my pack.
>
> Here's what's happening. Last time I dropped the pack I found six
> batteries that were like this. They would sit lower than the others with
> no load, would happily charge to 14-15ah then would fall like stones to
> 10 volts under 100a load but they would hold it for a good while. When
> you charge them, they take the charge but it's as if one cell is a
> phantom.
>
> I've tried float charging them, charging to insane voltages, whatever.
> One cell is simply gone.
>
> As the ultimate torture test, I hooked one to a zener reg and put it on
> a small dumb motorcycle charger attached to my mosquito magnet (500ma
> load) and left it there for the summer. Checked it today after about 4
> months of charge with the light bulb dimly on, and it sinks to 11.4
> under 100a load.
>
> Really odd. Why is the cell back? Will it last?
>
> But anyway, this does not seem to sink the car's range much, what it
> does is make the car act like a battery is missing or something. Check
> your numbers under cruise; I'll bet you see voltages 6 volts lower than
> what makes sense.
>
> I think I have another three oddballs in my pack from over the summer.
> Current plan is to drop the pack in October and check. Based on my
> readings (car comes to 318 volts after full charge and sitting for
> awhile then run with a 1a load as opposed to 324) I'm guessing three
> weird cells. But it will still run happily till more of them die.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:05 PM 9/9/2006, you wrote:
This is obviously a representative here in the US of one of the many
Chinese companies now building electric vehicles. All you have to do
is call them to find out. In my opinion China is far ahead of the US
in bringing viable and affordable EVs to market. I will call on
Monday myself to confirm my suspicions but the broken English and
the pictures of the vehicles on the site lead me to this conclusion.
I'm sorry, I still have a very sour taste in my mouth from one of the
Chinese "electric car companies" that blatantly STOLE the photo of
the red Aztec from our web site and used it to "illustrate" their
announcement of their upcoming production vehicles. They of course
totally ignored my cease and desist request, and there was nothing I
could do but grind my teeth.
Also, recently encountered an interesting comment from someone who
had spent substantial time in China regarding shoddy workmanship. He
said that there is an attitude in China that a product doesn't have
to be well made as long as it looks good. Appearance is everything,
but it can fall apart tomorrow. I wonder if this is a cultural
legacy of the many years of Communism putting on a good face
(Potemkin factories, etc.).
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:33 PM 9/9/2006, you wrote:
Michael Brown wrote
"Subarus and rotary Mazdas have a design that recesses
the flywheel into the back of the engine. This
requires a very thick and expensive adapter plate for
the electric motor. For that reason I don't recommend
them."--Page 31, CONVERT IT
A lot of adaptors have been designed and built since I wrote
that. The problem with the rotary Mazda was that the flywheel was
bolted to the crankshaft (which was a tapered crankshaft) with a
large gland nut and was basically a taper-fit. We made a more
conventional hub out of it by using a racing flywheel that was
supposed to bolt to the counterweight in a rotary Mazda automatic
transmission, and we left out the counterweight because the EV
doesn't need it.
The problem with the Subaru has always been that the horizontally
opposed four cylinder engine had its flywheel recessed into an end
plate on the engine. The problem was that you need to sacrifice the
Subaru engine in order to use that end plate to build the
adaptor. As long as you use that end plate, the adaptor is pretty
much like any other.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is an evaluation by a fellow EV'er. A little more positive. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
1a. Re: Zap Zebra gets Zapped
Posted by: "David Herron" [EMAIL PROTECTED] reikiman
Date: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:08 am (PDT)
Hi Lawrence,
Interesting article. One thing I see is it repeats the mantra of
problems with electric vehicles that clearly aren't what the Xebra is
designed for. The Xebra is clearly not designed for highway use, for
long trips, etc. It's clearly designed for around-town use.
So it's rather unfair of the reporter to raise those issues when it's
clear they aren't even in the scope of what that vehicle is for.
And he sure did his best to slander the vehicle at every turn of his
phrases. "not entitled to an engine, instead there is a small
electric motor". That electric motor is one of the larger I've seen,
a 9" diameter purple thing if I judged it right. And the controller
is by Alltrax. But if the reporter is accustomed to looking at gas
cars and the huge engines, he may be surprised at the amount of power
that can come from a small package.
I test drove the Xebra's in May when ZAP had a public test drive
exhibition. These were the pre-production prototype models. But I
witnessed four people riding in one and they were happy with the
results. In my case, when I was driving, it responded well, drove
okay, held up in traffic decently well, etc. But I only got to
circle the block.
I really doubt the Xebra would work well in San Francisco, though.
The hills in SF are steeper than average ;-)
There have been other articles about the Xebra that were more
positive .. and there are other dealerships selling the Xebra. Those
dealerships apparently are selling every car they can get. And the
problem seems to be Zap's ability to ship cars to keep up with the
demand.
There is a Xebra group on yahoo!groups
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Xebra_EV
Where you can find out more.
- David Herron
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've always thought that looking at the Electric Motor like a Transfer
Case.& using standard knuckles would be a slick setup. The Motor then
would be part of the drive shaft. If you could put a transfer case between
the electric motor and the rear end you might get a couple of gears out of
it. Just a thought. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:38 PM
Subject: Veggie oil hybrid setup
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone used a double ended ADC motor inline of the propshaft of a car.
Whats
> the best way to tie in an electric motor to the current drive train of my
> diesel hilux?
>
> Chain drive?
>
> Cheers
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is an active group at M.I.T. Olaf Bleck comes to mind.
Olaf Bleck 617-513-9841 or bleck (at) ai.mit.edu.
http://www.oeva.org/forsale/
I hope Olaf doesn't mind me pasting his info on the web.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:50 PM
Subject: Karmann Ghia conversion
> Hello All, I have a 71 Karmann Ghia (semi-automatic) I would like to
convert to electric. I have found that a couple of people on the internet
that have already done conversions on their Ghias, so I know that it can be
done. I do not have any experiance working on cars, and have not found
anyone that I can hire to help me, as far as converting the car. I really
love this car, but if I had to, I would sell it to buy an EV. Would be ideal
to have both together. I have been looking at the how to convert plans on
Ebay. I don't want to gut the car, and then find that I can't do it. Does
anyone have any suggestions on where to start? Maybe a kit that might work?
I am only looking for modest performance,, maybe 45 miles an hour/ 40-45
mile range. My budget is also unfortunately modest, so I would have to learn
to do as much as possible myself. I had my first EV, an Ego scooter all
summer, and I don't want to go back to using an ICE. I am in RI, does anyone
know if there is someon!
> e in the area (New England) that works on EVs? I totally new to all this
and any info to start me in the right direction would be great!! Thanks to
all for your time and knowledge, Rachel
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might want to contact Bob Batson at EV AMERICA. He
is located somewhere near you and has a website for EV
parts. We have a local guy here in Vancouver,
Washington who is finishing a beautiful conversion of
a Karmann Ghia. Good luck in your plans. Dan Eyk
Daniel Eyk
Vancouver, Wa.
Electric S-10 project
E-15 project
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Consider the forces exerted upon the drive shaft which is in most case a
hollow tube. Then consider the forces which would be exerted on the shaft of
the electric motor if placed in line with the driveshaft. From this layman's
perspective I would think the tensile strength of the electric motor
armature shaft to exceed the strength of a hollow tube drive shaft but I am
not a physics professor and can't evaluate is past a simple drawing.
Any takers on this one??
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Veggie oil hybrid setup
I've always thought that looking at the Electric Motor like a Transfer
Case.& using standard knuckles would be a slick setup. The Motor then
would be part of the drive shaft. If you could put a transfer case between
the electric motor and the rear end you might get a couple of gears out of
it. Just a thought. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 11:38 PM
Subject: Veggie oil hybrid setup
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone used a double ended ADC motor inline of the propshaft of a car.
Whats
> the best way to tie in an electric motor to the current drive train of
> my diesel hilux?
>
> Chain drive?
>
> Cheers
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is Really Important.... To John W. and Killowatt...
Let the LIST know ( in advance ) when that PBS spot will air.
And John... Keep in contact with the Writer from Car-n-Driver so we can
be sure to buy an issue when the story hits the News Stands...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rachel;
There are a FEW of us EVers in Corrupticut, we try to hang together with
our chapter of the EAA, Normally we meet at Tony Ascrizzi's in Worchester,
but after Tony's place being wiped out by a runaway dumptruck, he hasn't the
setup as before. I've had the guyz over to my place in Killingworth, near
Clinton, Exit 63 on I 95, a not-too-bad drive from parts north.We usually
have a few electrics show up. You can check out some EV's up close. Hope to
be able to show a RUNNING Sentra when I get my controller wiring doped
out.HAD a 82 Rabbit for years, but wrecked it towing it home from the Races
in Chicago back in June.Will replace it with a Jetta, the motor an' stuff
SHOULD just bolt right in?
So talk to me. How can we get you going electrically. BTW Ghias make
great EV's there are several Listers driving them. The semi automatic? I
don't know if anybody else has done one of those? Worst case senario would
be to convert it back to stick shift? Guys???Anybody ELSE had this?
Anyhow, wanted to say "yur not alone" we're here, and be glad to help. RI
isn't exactly a hotbed of EV activity, but we're working on that<g>!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:50 AM
Subject: Karmann Ghia conversion
> Hello All, I have a 71 Karmann Ghia (semi-automatic) I would like to
convert to electric. I have found that a couple of people on the internet
that have already done conversions on their Ghias, so I know that it can be
done. I do not have any experiance working on cars, and have not found
anyone that I can hire to help me, as far as converting the car. I really
love this car, but if I had to, I would sell it to buy an EV. Would be ideal
to have both together. I have been looking at the how to convert plans on
Ebay. I don't want to gut the car, and then find that I can't do it. Does
anyone have any suggestions on where to start? Maybe a kit that might work?
I am only looking for modest performance,, maybe 45 miles an hour/ 40-45
mile range. My budget is also unfortunately modest, so I would have to learn
to do as much as possible myself. I had my first EV, an Ego scooter all
summer, and I don't want to go back to using an ICE. I am in RI, does anyone
know if there is someon!
> e in the area (New England) that works on EVs? I totally new to all this
and any info to start me in the right direction would be great!! Thanks to
all for your time and knowledge, Rachel
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/443 - Release Date: 9/11/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rachel, welcome to the list.
First off, don't waste your money on the EV plans being sold on eBay. From
previous discussions on the lit, it appears that this guy has just gone
and collected free information off the web and is charging for it.
Two of the best books on converting cars to EVs are:
"Convert It" http://www.electroauto.com/info/books.shtml
"Build your own Electric Vehicle"
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Own-Electric-Vehicle/dp/0830642315 (or
visit your local book store)
These books are a little dated when it comes to currently available parts,
but do an excellent job of covering the basics. You might even be able to
check one out from your local library (possibly on an inter-library loan).
The Ghia is one of the best vehicles for converting to electric power.
They routinely end up being very efficient which translates to longer
range.
Personally I would not recommend the Kaylor conversion, currently being
sold on eBay. It's 35 year old technology and not very efficient.
However, it is cheaper than most options (though, I think, a bit
overpriced for what you get).
> Hello All, I have a 71 Karmann Ghia (semi-automatic) I would like to
> convert to electric. I have found that a couple of people on the internet
> that have already done conversions on their Ghias, so I know that it can
> be done. I do not have any experiance working on cars, and have not found
> anyone that I can hire to help me, as far as converting the car. I really
> love this car, but if I had to, I would sell it to buy an EV. Would be
> ideal to have both together. I have been looking at the how to convert
> plans on Ebay. I don't want to gut the car, and then find that I can't do
> it. Does anyone have any suggestions on where to start? Maybe a kit that
> might work? I am only looking for modest performance,, maybe 45 miles an
> hour/ 40-45 mile range. My budget is also unfortunately modest, so I would
> have to learn to do as much as possible myself. I had my first EV, an Ego
> scooter all summer, and I don't want to go back to using an ICE. I am in
> RI, does anyone know if there is someon!
> e in the area (New England) that works on EVs? I totally new to all this
> and any info to start me in the right direction would be great!! Thanks
> to all for your time and knowledge, Rachel
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Umm serious note. These brushes do not seat on thier own. They are desinged
for million mile operation, Even with 1000 of miles on then, they will be
riding in the center 1/8 inch.. and over heat and Well make a good motor a
well used one in a short order. Radius the brushes as soon as possible.
Really... Look them over and when you get a swept brush that is shinny from
leading edge to trailing Edge.. only then do you have the brush the way it's
supposed to be.
I would guess that a LOT of Zebras motor troubles were just because nobody
checked AvDC's work. This very kind of thing helped Kill the Sparrow. The 8
were atleast radiused, But not timed...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Condie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
The thing is, I figure that reverse should only be slow speed, low voltage,
short term, where brush timing shouldn't be too critical. On the other
hand, high speed forward operation at (possibly) above the rated voltage of
72 VDC might require brush advance to avoid arcing (or so I hear.) So if
the Zebra ADC's are set with neutral brush advance, like the Sparrow's
were, it seems to me that advancing a few degrees might be a good idea.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to eyeball it, so my next question was going
to be how to A) see it and; B) advance it. But that question will wait
until I pull one or both of the motors, and can actually see what I'm asking
about.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry. Had the plain text switch off.
Wouldn't these be set t zero as the Tropica as electric reverse? I've
got one that's easy to look at if someone will tell me what to look for.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
The First major warning is the brushes are totally flat, no radiusing at
all. You need to Arc in the brushes and then seat them.
As I recall there is NO timing at all they are nuetral.
So they could use 5 to 10 Deg of advance.
Madman
I have atleast 1 around here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Condie"
To: "EV List"
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:28 PM
Subject: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
> Rumor has it that a certain John Wayland bought the surplus inventory
of
6.7" 72 volt ADC motors from the Zebra/Tropica bankruptcy sale. I'm
trying
to find out what I can about these motors (having two of them now)
which are
said to be a "special order" ADC model XP-1150. So if John (or anyone
else)
knows - are the brushes advanced or set at neutral on these babies? Is
there anything else about them that I'll need to know if I run them at
higher voltages? (Of **course** I want to over-volt them!) I'd
rather not
have to take them out of the chassis if I don't have to, but if the
brushes
aren't advanced I'm going to consider it while the rest of the project
is
moving forward.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are only 3 milspec BB600 cap removal tools left.
I'll get around to weighing the boxes when the pack is done being
installed.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
steve clunn wrote:
> Looks like a lot of work to get a bit of improvment.
Yep! That's why people don't bother... and their AM radios don't work.
The noise can also cause problems with other systems, such as the
E-meter.
> How much improvment would shorting the power cables 50% be?
You mean "shortening" them 50%? The inductance, and thus the noise would
be reduced proportionally -- about 50%.
> Twisting them together can make a unsightly mess...
> and coaxial is not going to happen often.
That's right. It's too much work and expense, so it won't happen unless
there is a need (or regulations mandate it).
Toyota chose to bundle their wires together, and put a braided shield
over them in their hybrids. That's relatively simple and cost effective.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zebra motor trouble? I have only heard of one motor having trouble on
the Tropicas and that wasn't due to brushes. Tropicas are 72v. The one
and only real Zebra was 144v although I don't know if the motors were
in series or parallel.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
Umm serious note. These brushes do not seat on thier own. They are
desinged
for million mile operation, Even with 1000 of miles on then, they will
be
riding in the center 1/8 inch.. and over heat and Well make a good
motor a
well used one in a short order. Radius the brushes as soon as possible.
Really... Look them over and when you get a swept brush that is shinny
from
leading edge to trailing Edge.. only then do you have the brush the way
it's
supposed to be.
I would guess that a LOT of Zebras motor troubles were just because
nobody
checked AvDC's work. This very kind of thing helped Kill the Sparrow.
The 8
were atleast radiused, But not timed...
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Condie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
The thing is, I figure that reverse should only be slow speed, low
voltage,
short term, where brush timing shouldn't be too critical. On the other
hand, high speed forward operation at (possibly) above the rated
voltage of
72 VDC might require brush advance to avoid arcing (or so I hear.) So
if
the Zebra ADC's are set with neutral brush advance, like the Sparrow's
were, it seems to me that advancing a few degrees might be a good idea.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to eyeball it, so my next question was
going
to be how to A) see it and; B) advance it. But that question will
wait
until I pull one or both of the motors, and can actually see what I'm
asking
about.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry. Had the plain text switch off.
Wouldn't these be set t zero as the Tropica as electric reverse? I've
got one that's easy to look at if someone will tell me what to look for.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 10 Sep 2006 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
The First major warning is the brushes are totally flat, no radiusing at
all. You need to Arc in the brushes and then seat them.
As I recall there is NO timing at all they are nuetral.
So they could use 5 to 10 Deg of advance.
Madman
I have atleast 1 around here.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Condie"
To: "EV List"
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:28 PM
Subject: John Wayland - Zebra motors brush advance?
Rumor has it that a certain John Wayland bought the surplus inventory
of
6.7" 72 volt ADC motors from the Zebra/Tropica bankruptcy sale. I'm
trying
to find out what I can about these motors (having two of them now)
which are
said to be a "special order" ADC model XP-1150. So if John (or anyone
else)
knows - are the brushes advanced or set at neutral on these babies? Is
there anything else about them that I'll need to know if I run them at
higher voltages? (Of **course** I want to over-volt them!) I'd
rather not
have to take them out of the chassis if I don't have to, but if the
brushes
aren't advanced I'm going to consider it while the rest of the project
is
moving forward.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did I mention that I put 130 miles on this BB600 pack in just a few
days? No muss no fuss, so far.
The cells have now been moved from the bed to the box. About half of
the bus bars have been installed. 250 buss bars, 500 nuts and a few
cables will be the total. I will be a bit short on bus bars so some
have to be machined. But it should be running again by the weekend I
hope.
I thought this weekend that using flattened copper tubing would work,
but it was only .070" thick when crushed. Too bad. That was easy to do
too.
It looks like the metal suppliers near me in San Jose are gone. So I'm
ordering some 3/4" x 1/8" bar from Mcmaster.
The temperature crayons and the protective coating material should be
here today. I want to watch the temperature of all of the hardware to
see if anything is getting hot. Picked up 4 differnet temperatures.
113F, thru 150F.
Need to make a water checking bulb for these cells too so they won't
have to come out for level checks. Maybe one for the green tops as they
have a deeper V and another for the red tops.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> ...(Chris) reported that he had several batteries that dropped to
> 10V under load (100A) but read fine when not loaded and freshly
> charged.
He's reversed a cell in these batteries (discharged them until they went
below 0 volts), and then recharged them in the normal direction. The
resulting cells have low amphour capacity, and higher internal
resistance.
> Yesterday I checked my AGM batteries and I found 3
> batteries that were different than the other 23 in
> that when I hooked up a 13.6V lab supply the current
> would start at zero, then s-l-o-w-l-y and increasingly
> faster rose to the current limit (3A) after which the
> voltage dropped to 13.2 and the battery continued to
> charge normally from this point onward.
You have dead cells in those batteries. When you first start charging,
the dead cell looks almost like an open circuit because its electrolyte
is almost pure water. Thus charging current is low, and the voltage goes
way up.
As the dead cell begins to charge, lead sulfate is being converted back
into lead oxide, and the sulfate returns to the electrolyte to make
sulfuric acid. The resistance of the cell drops, so the charging current
rises and the charging voltage drops.
> The weird thing is that these bad batteries had no
> effect on range or driving or pack charging
Oh yes they do! They are your weak links, and are setting your range and
charging characteristics! On every drive, they are getting more deeply
discharged. On every charge cycle, they are reaching "full" first, and
so determining when the charger shuts off. They are the ones that will
fail first!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
