EV digest 5859

Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:58:21 -0700 

                            EV Digest 5859

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion
        by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion - autostick
        by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion
        by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Bar stock
        by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.
        by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Batteries "losing" a cell? How to recover?
        by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Dodge D50 conversion
        by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: PFC20 acting strange
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Bar stock
        by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) battery spreadsheet
        by "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion
        by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) RE: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
        by "Chelsea Sexton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: battery spreadsheet
        by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: Veggie oil hybrid setup
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) RE: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: golf cart
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Home brewed 3 phase system
        by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: BB600/USE truck update
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: BB600/USE truck update
        by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Home brewed 3 phase system
        by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Veggie oil hybrid setup
        by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Home brewed 3 phase system
        by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Home brewed 3 phase system
        by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) Re: Noise suppression: effect of bundling wires
        by "Robyn Lundstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) RE: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
        by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- 


There are several Ghia's at EVAlbum.com. If the semi-auto is
considered a Type 1 transmission, you could try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230026930097
   - it's pretty basic and uses parallel/series switching, but it's
someplace to start and reasonably priced
Remember the recent discussion about adopting standards? Series parallel switching for a control system is one we would vote a big NO on. 

Consensus, anyone?

Shari Prange

Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
At 11:50 PM 9/10/2006, you wrote:

Hello All,  I have a 71 Karmann Ghia (semi-automatic)
The auto-stick transmission was basically a three speed manual transmission with a torque converter and a clutch between the engine and the transmission. It needs a source of vacuum to operate the clutch and a pump to maintain pressure for the torque converter. While these could be duplicated in a conversion, the losses through the torque converter, in addition to the added complexity of the installation, would give you a conversion with less efficiency (range) and poorer performance (acceleration) than a manual transmission version.
A standard VW 4 speed could be installed in this chassis. The gearshift lever would have to be replaced with one from a standard transmission because the autostick lever had contact points that closed the circuit to actuate the clutch. However, the big deal breaker on a manual transmission installation is fact that the factory did not put a tube inside the center tunnel for the clutch cable to run through. Installing such a tube is an expensive proposition. You would also have to install a pedal cluster with a clutch pedal. 

Mike Brown

Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Series parallel sounds creepy in a vehicle! Got my vote...

-Ralph


On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:57:00 -0700
Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> >There are several Ghia's at EVAlbum.com. If the semi-auto is
> >considered a Type 1 transmission, you could try this:
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230026930097
> >    - it's pretty basic and uses parallel/series switching, but it's
> >someplace to start and reasonably priced
> 
> Remember the recent discussion about adopting standards?  Series 
> parallel switching for a control system is one we would vote a big NO on.
> 
> Consensus, anyone?
> 
> Shari Prange
> 
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
In trying to fit/arrange my controller, contactors, shunts, etc into as small a 
space as possible
I am planning on using some copper bar stock to go between some points, like 
the shunt to
contactor or contactor to the controller. The distances are so short that it 
would be hard to
route a 5"-6" cable. Copper bar stock is available, but a pain to get around 
here. Has anyone used
aluminum bar stock instead? Is there a reason I just shouldn't go there?

Dave Cover

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I could be wrong, but I think part of the issue is that Leo and Margaret
need to be advised to use the instructions below using Lawrence's account.
Otherwise, the list will (quite correctly) complain that " [EMAIL PROTECTED]"
is not an address that is subscribed to the list.

I'm waiting on the output of a "help" request to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] see if this list server allows for
unsubscribe requests from another
email address.  I'll let you know what I find out.

Matt

On 9/10/06, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:


Hello Lawrence,

To un-subscribe:

Send the following email message:

TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
SUBJECT: thanks
MESSAGE: signoff ev


Note, that the signoff ev must be in the MESSAGE box.

Roland


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected] >
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:44 PM
Subject: Fw: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.


> Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.Leo and Margret are getting
> desperate.  Could someone explain to them the how to
procedures.  Lawrence
> Rhodes....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Leo & Margaret Galcher
> To: Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 8:09 PM
> Subject: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.
>
>
>   Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 13:39:43 -0700
>   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   From: Leo & Margaret Galcher < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Subject: signoff ev
>   Cc:
>   Bcc:
>   X-Attachments:
>
>           I PLAYED BY YOUR RULES -- AND YOU REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT
I
> WANT OUT!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   To discontinue receiving any mail from the EV discussion list, send
the
> following email message:
>
>           *       signoff ev
>           *
>   to the list processor address
>           *       [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Lee Hart wrote:

He's reversed a cell in these batteries (discharged them until they went
below 0 volts), and then recharged them in the normal direction. The
resulting cells have low amphour capacity, and higher internal
resistance.


*nod* I can see that, but then why does the rest of the battery put out
normal current/voltage profiles at 10 volts? If you didn't know any
better you would think this was a 10 volt battery. Pulls 100a just fine
through the dead cell.

If the cell was really reversed, the voltage would be 8 volts idle (12
volts less two for the missing cell and two because it's backwards),
correct?

Also I have tried charging these oddballs with the E_meter. When "full"
they still drop to 10 volts under load, then hold that through their
normal capacity.


You have dead cells in those batteries. When you first start charging,
the dead cell looks almost like an open circuit because its electrolyte
is almost pure water. Thus charging current is low, and the voltage goes
way up.


This would explain the cell, however if the cell was at zero volts would
it be a pure conductor or insulator for the rest of the pack on discharge?


Oh yes they do! They are your weak links, and are setting your range and
charging characteristics! On every drive, they are getting more deeply
discharged. On every charge cycle, they are reaching "full" first, and
so determining when the charger shuts off. They are the ones that will
fail first!


Now, an interesting side point: When I left one of these batteries
sitting with a lee regulator on it and a little 1a dumb motorcycle
charger it actually reads 11.x volts when put under a 100a load. Which
is odd.

However it sounds like you're saying it's time to charge harder. I have
noticed with the regs that the voltage will come up to 375 on the pack
(normal term charge) then get to 380, then sink to 370 or so. I was
wondering if this was the regs causing thermal walkaway. Perhaps the
pack just needs a solid charge?

Chris

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
You can also search the Mitsubishi MightyMax listings, same truck.
Mine's at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
The 5-speed Mitsubishi comes with a KM132 tranny for 2WD and KM145 tranny for 
4WD.
The Dodge version uses the FM132 and FM145 tranny's (built for Ford by 
Mitsubishi).
As far as I know they are the same machines except the FM- versions have a 
removable bellhousing.

Is your donor a 2WD or 4WD? You might check with Mike Brown at ElectroAuto.  
Unless he reused the material he has an adaptor plate that will fit a 2WD 
transmission.  I received it only to find out the hard way that the 4WD tranny 
has slightly larger spacing between all the bolt holes.  If it is a 4WD then 
they have a template which I drew and submitted to his library for the KM145 
bellhousing template.  

When searching the small trucks I found the Mitsu/D50 was the lightest by far 
(excepting the VW, Datsun and Chevy Luv mini trucks).  All the S-10's I found 
around here were automatic.  The Rangers have less space between the frame 
rails and all the Toyota's were beat to S%&#.  It turned out to be a real easy 
conversion.  I was initially going to tackle putting the batteries under the 
bed but with the cold weather problems I would shortly have to deal with 
decided to initially start out with an insulated box inside the bed.

Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.



----- Original Message -----
From: Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, September 11, 2006 4:21 am
Subject: Dodge D50 conversion
To: [email protected]

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a bad address (evalbum) wanted to ask his 
> advice on 
> converting a D50 I'm getting for $400
> 
> Anyone have links to others that have converted this truck? 
> 
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Jeff Shanab wrote: 

> Current control is very smooth like you indicate. The second 
> time it did this, just closing the car door was enough to get
> it charging again. It seems unlikely that I have a dirty pot
> or have worn a spot in the pot

You mention that one difference is that you have the DC/DC hooked up
now.

When you open/close the car door, did the interior light come on/off
(changing the load on the DC/DC)?

While 4A @ 288V seems like a huge amount of power for a DC/DC to consume
with the car parked (and presumably key off), it is entirely possible
that the E-Meter will report 0A into the pack if the DC/DC and charger
are both connected to the load side of the shunt (as they should be),
and the DC/DC is (for some reason) consuming all or most of the charger
output.

As soon as you decrease the load on the DC/DC, its input current will
drop, and the E-Meter will suddenly report charge current again.

You may find that you need to disconnect/disable the DC/DC while
charging, or crank up your charge rate a couple of amps to ensure that
there is enough current to charge the batteries after the DC/DC takes
its share.

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Dave,
I produce a lot of scrap Copper bar stock.  How much and what size would you
be looking for?
-Rick Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 12:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Bar stock

In trying to fit/arrange my controller, contactors, shunts, etc into as
small a space as possible I am planning on using some copper bar stock to go
between some points, like the shunt to contactor or contactor to the
controller. The distances are so short that it would be hard to route a
5"-6" cable. Copper bar stock is available, but a pain to get around here.
Has anyone used aluminum bar stock instead? Is there a reason I just
shouldn't go there?

Dave Cover

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I'm new to all this and would like to gather more information.  I'm
starting a battery spreadsheet so I can weigh all the options.

If anyone can contribute some data, please send to me off-list and I'll
put it in the spreadsheet.  If anyone can help out, email me and take a
battery type or company or whatever.

Here is what I started;

The first row has cell (or unit) info, then will calculate total weight,
volume, cost, etc. when desired voltage or number of cells/batteries is
entered.

EV Batteries            Cell            Pack                            

The columns are divided into battery types;

Type            
Lead Acid (Deep Cycle)

        Flooded

        Sealed

NiCad

NiMH

LiIon           
LiPo    
UltraCaps


The rows have these so far, but a lot more can be added like energy
density, etc.;

Company, Link, p/n

Then for individual cell/battery;

cost, volts, AH, weight, shape, height, width, depth    volume, cycles

and for pack total;

volts, AH, cost, weight, volume

these are some companies I'm starting with, including some R/C LiPo
batteries just to compare cost/weight.

Optima  Yellow Top                              
Genesis Hawker                                                          
Trojan
U.S.Battery

Exide

Saft    
A123 Systems
PolyQuest       
Flight Power                            

If this sounds worthwhile, let me know.  Battery p/n's that are being
used would help along with links to specs.

Thanks,
Gary Krysztopik

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I personally am not offended if someone chooses a primitive solenoid switching control system for getting their feet wet with EVs. Many people did this back in the 70s and were able to get around somewhat OK before modern motor speed controllers. What I really have a problem with is half truths and outright BS. If you read Bohan's Ebay site he implies that his system is more efficient than using a modern motor speed controller under the section titled: Relays Verses Transistorized Control on this page: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230026930097 The other thing that got my dander up a bit is the following statement from his web site on his page describing "how to drive a dynamotor based electric car" on this page: http://members.aol.com/BohanDesign/evkits/driveanev/default.htm He states: "Like it or not smart Freeway driving in an electric car should not exceed 55 miles per hour. 55 miles per hour used to be the legal speed limit during the energy crisis of the 1970's and it will greatly help the performance of your electric car today. Another advantage of driving 55 is everybody else tends to pass you. This allows you to always maintain a steady speed " No where on his site does he mention the annoying whine of the motor nor the actual efficiency numbers for an aircraft starter/generator which I have heard is about 60 or 70%. Someone more knowledgeable about this number can speak up and correct me if I am way off base here. 

Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Karmann Ghia conversion





There are several Ghia's at EVAlbum.com. If the semi-auto is
considered a Type 1 transmission, you could try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230026930097
   - it's pretty basic and uses parallel/series switching, but it's
someplace to start and reasonably priced
Remember the recent discussion about adopting standards? Series parallel switching for a control system is one we would vote a big NO on. 

Consensus, anyone?

Shari Prange

Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979




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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

The flyer is called "Why Plug In Cars", and is downloadable from Plug In America's website: www.pluginamerica.com. We created it so that anyone can print them off and use them locally as needed.

chelsea

From:  Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  [email protected]
To:  [email protected]
Subject:  RE: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
Date:  Mon, 11 Sep 2006 06:43:03 -0700 (PDT)
>Fair warning: Somebody somewhere had put together a
>flyer when it showed in Ashland, OR.  It discussed
>PHEVs and the Tango.  Very slick, up to date.
>Hopefully it's being included as the film itself is
>being distributed!
>peace,
>
>--- gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Sure, make a simple flyer with the EEA web info and
> > (hopefully) local
> > chapter info and tell people to support homegrown
> > efforts.  This will
> > result in more cars available locally.  I bet a lot
> > of chapters would be
> > willing and able to convert cars for people that
> > wanted to buy the
> > parts.  With enough growth, the EAA could help with
> > marketing, financing
> > and insuring.
> >
> > gary
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Don
> > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:11 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
> >
> > Go to this link:
> >
>http://mwpai.org/performingarts/performances/filmseries/#1662
> >
> > I just found out about this performance this
> > morning. It's occurring
> > later this week. Wish I were more prepared to
> > support it with EV
> > literature, etc.  Any suggestions what I might do to
> > support EV's during
> > these shows?  I don't have much time to prepare.
> >
> >
> > The shows are Wednesday Sept 13 & Friday September
> > 15   2 PM & 7:30 PM
> > both days
> >
> > I'm open to suggestions and any support you might
> > offer
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Don B. Davidson III
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 117 Dean St
> > Rome, NY 13440
> > 315 337 2124
> >
> >
>
>
>Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic?  My $20 video/DVD
>has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
>Learn more at:
>www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
>   ____
>                      __/__|__\ __
>   =D-------/    -  -         \
>                      'O'-----'O'-'
>Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
You might want to add Valence Lithium batteries
http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp

-Ralph

On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:36:59 -0500
"gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm new to all this and would like to gather more information.  I'm
> starting a battery spreadsheet so I can weigh all the options.
> 
> If anyone can contribute some data, please send to me off-list and I'll
> put it in the spreadsheet.  If anyone can help out, email me and take a
> battery type or company or whatever.
> 
> Here is what I started;
> 
> The first row has cell (or unit) info, then will calculate total weight,
> volume, cost, etc. when desired voltage or number of cells/batteries is
> entered.
> 
> EV Batteries          Cell            Pack                            
> 
> The columns are divided into battery types;
> 
> Type          
> Lead Acid (Deep Cycle)
> 
>       Flooded
> 
>       Sealed
> 
> NiCad
> 
> NiMH
> 
> LiIon         
> LiPo  
> UltraCaps
> 
> 
> The rows have these so far, but a lot more can be added like energy
> density, etc.;
> 
> Company, Link, p/n
> 
> Then for individual cell/battery;
> 
> cost, volts, AH, weight, shape, height, width, depth  volume, cycles
> 
> and for pack total;
> 
> volts, AH, cost, weight, volume
> 
> these are some companies I'm starting with, including some R/C LiPo
> batteries just to compare cost/weight.
> 
> Optima        Yellow Top                              
> Genesis       Hawker                                                          
> Trojan
> U.S.Battery
> 
> Exide
> 
> Saft  
> A123 Systems
> PolyQuest     
> Flight Power                          
> 
> If this sounds worthwhile, let me know.  Battery p/n's that are being
> used would help along with links to specs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Gary Krysztopik
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Not again.  Every time I relay something EVeryone thinks it's my problem.  It's 
Leo & Margarets problem.  I'm just the messenger.  Lawrence Rhodes.....
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Matt Kenigson 
  To: [email protected] 
  Cc: Leo & Margaret Galcher ; Lawrence Rhodes 
  Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:34 AM
  Subject: Re: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.


  I could be wrong, but I think part of the issue is that Leo and Margaret need 
to be advised to use the instructions below using Lawrence's account.  
Otherwise, the list will (quite correctly) complain that " [EMAIL PROTECTED]" 
is not an address that is subscribed to the list.

  I'm waiting on the output of a "help" request to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to see if 
this list server allows for unsubscribe requests from another email address.  
I'll let you know what I find out.

  Matt


  On 9/10/06, Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
    Hello Lawrence,

    To un-subscribe:

    Send the following email message: 

    TO: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    SUBJECT: thanks
    MESSAGE: signoff ev


    Note, that the signoff ev must be in the MESSAGE box. 

    Roland


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" < [email protected] >
    Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 9:44 PM
    Subject: Fw: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.


    > Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please.Leo and Margret are getting
    > desperate.  Could someone explain to them the how to procedures.  
Lawrence 
    > Rhodes....
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Leo & Margaret Galcher
    > To: Lawrence Rhodes
    > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 8:09 PM
    > Subject: Help -- Just get me off the list -- Please. 
    >
    >
    >   Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 13:39:43 -0700
    >   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
    >   From: Leo & Margaret Galcher < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    >   Subject: signoff ev
    >   Cc:
    >   Bcc:
    >   X-Attachments:
    >
    >           I PLAYED BY YOUR RULES -- AND YOU REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT I
    > WANT OUT!
    > 
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >   To discontinue receiving any mail from the EV discussion list, send the
    > following email message:
    >
    >           *       signoff ev
    >           * 
    >   to the list processor address
    >           *       [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    > 
    >

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Robert Chew wrote: 

> Anyone used a double ended ADC motor inline of the propshaft 
> of a car. Whats the best way to tie in an electric motor to
> the current drive train of my diesel hilux?

A round-bore yoke such as the ones this company offers:

<http://www.ggmfg.com/product_subsubcategories.asp?subcatParent=312&catP
K=8>

The big issue seems to be that the smallish diameter of the ADC
tailshaft limits you on the available yokes and the torque they can
handle.

For the 1.125" drive end shaft, no problem:

184-0618,  6N series U joint, 116.7 ft-lbs max
184-1218, 12N series U joint, 272 ft-lbs max
184-1418, 14N series U joint, 350 ft-lbs max
184-3518, 35N series U joint, 632 ft-lbs max

However, for the 0.75" (ADC 8") tailshaft, the beefiest yoke this
supplier offers is for the 6N series U joint, so limited to 116.7 ft-lbs
of torque.

How much torque does your ICE deliver at the tranny output shaft?  That
is what the tailshaft yoke needs to withstand, provided you install the
motor such that its drive end shaft connects to the drive shaft and its
tailshaft connects to the tranny output.

This arrangement (ADC inline with tranny output) might reduce the
driveshaft length such that its operating angle becomes too steep; in
this case, it might be better to couple the ADC to the tranny output
shaft using chain or belt so that it can mount beside the driveshaft or
tranny and leave the existing driveshaft intact.

If your truck was available in 4WD, it might be possible to install the
transfer case from the 4WD model and connect the ADC in place of the
driveshaft that would normally go to the front axle.  This arrangement
has the advantage that you could shift the transfer case into 2H to keep
the electric motor from spinning when unused, which would allow you to
gear the electric motor as required for good torque without worrying
about overspeeding it when travelling at higher speeds under ICE power.

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Lawrence Rhodes wrote: 

> Not again.  Every time I relay something EVeryone thinks it's 
> my problem.  It's Leo & Margarets problem.  I'm just the 
> messenger.  Lawrence Rhodes.....

Matt wrote:

>   I could be wrong, but I think part of the issue is that Leo 
> and Margaret need to be advised to use the instructions below 
> using Lawrence's account.  Otherwise, the list will (quite 
> correctly) complain that " [EMAIL PROTECTED]" is not an 
> address that is subscribed to the list.

Relax guys, I emailed Leo & Margaret offlist back on Saturday and
explained the need to send the request from the subscribed address.  I
expect they've successfully unsubscribed by now.

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I just recommend 48v to get it over 20mph.  If you do 72v I'll fly.
Roderick Wilde does those kinds of rebuilds.  I wouldn't recommend 30mph
unless you mess with the suspension.  It registers as a motorcycle or moped.
I'd recommend moped because of reduced cost and this thing will never go on
the freeway.  The Steering is fine the way it is.  You will need to wear a
helmet.  No windshield.  Insurance yes.   It can't be an electrified bike
because the horsepower is too high.  Moped is the best advantage.  One time
registration of 17 dollars. It can get parking tickets.  It can be very
useful in a city like San Francisco.  It climbs hills better at 48v.  I bet
72v'd make it a great hill climber.  Lawrence Rhodes....


> Hi Larry
> I just sent a email to the folks selling the vintage harley golf cart
asking
> how much and what work it needs. what do you think it would cost to tiurn
it
> into an NEV that could cruise at about 30 mph? would we need a windshield?
a
> steering wheel?
> Mike M
> 648-4907

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
A fellow I know built his own 3 phase system. Cost $675 in parts. I
think  it was 20kw. The bad news is he paid someone $6k to write the
software. 

Mike

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Allen Steel in Redwood city has been good for me.  Lots of stock in copper
and Aluminum.  LR.......
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "US Electricar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "BB600"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:11 AM
Subject: BB600/USE truck update


> Did I mention that I put 130 miles on this BB600 pack in just a few
> days? No muss no fuss, so far.
>
> The cells have now been moved from the bed to the box. About half of
> the bus bars have been installed. 250 buss bars, 500 nuts and a few
> cables will be the total. I will be a bit short on bus bars so some
> have to be machined. But it should be running again by the weekend I
> hope.
>
> I thought this weekend that using flattened copper tubing would work,
> but it was only .070" thick when crushed. Too bad. That was easy to do
> too.
>
> It looks like the metal suppliers near me in San Jose are gone. So I'm
> ordering some 3/4" x 1/8" bar from Mcmaster.
>
> The temperature crayons and the protective coating material should be
> here today. I want to watch the temperature of all of the hardware to
> see if anything is getting hot. Picked up 4 differnet temperatures.
> 113F, thru 150F.
>
> Need to make a water checking bulb for these cells too so they won't
> have to come out for level checks. Maybe one for the green tops as they
> have a deeper V and another for the red tops.
>
> Mike
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
How much bus do you need 1/8 X 3/4" ?
-Rick Todd

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:22 PM
To: US Electricar; BB600; EVDL
Subject: Re: BB600/USE truck update

Allen Steel in Redwood city has been good for me.  Lots of stock in copper
and Aluminum.  LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "US Electricar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "BB600"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:11 AM
Subject: BB600/USE truck update


> Did I mention that I put 130 miles on this BB600 pack in just a few
> days? No muss no fuss, so far.
>
> The cells have now been moved from the bed to the box. About half of
> the bus bars have been installed. 250 buss bars, 500 nuts and a few
> cables will be the total. I will be a bit short on bus bars so some
> have to be machined. But it should be running again by the weekend I
> hope.
>
> I thought this weekend that using flattened copper tubing would work,
> but it was only .070" thick when crushed. Too bad. That was easy to do
> too.
>
> It looks like the metal suppliers near me in San Jose are gone. So I'm
> ordering some 3/4" x 1/8" bar from Mcmaster.
>
> The temperature crayons and the protective coating material should be
> here today. I want to watch the temperature of all of the hardware to
> see if anything is getting hot. Picked up 4 differnet temperatures.
> 113F, thru 150F.
>
> Need to make a water checking bulb for these cells too so they won't
> have to come out for level checks. Maybe one for the green tops as they
> have a deeper V and another for the red tops.
>
> Mike
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
So, he could build and sell, say.... 20 copies for $975 ea plus labor and
profit.

How much would it cost to make it 5 times more powerful?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump

GE I-5
Blossvale, NY

>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:07 PM
> To: EVDL
> Subject: Home brewed 3 phase system
> 
> A fellow I know built his own 3 phase system. Cost $675 in parts. I think
> it was 20kw. The bad news is he paid someone $6k to write the software. 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 

________________________________________________
Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
All very good points made.

I wish my car was a 4wd, it would have made tihngs a lot easier since i can
disconnect the rear tailshaft to the ICE and use that for the ADC.

I guess the option now is toinstall the ADC next to the tailshaft and drive
it via a tailshaft of some sort.




On 12/09/06, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Robert Chew wrote:

> Anyone used a double ended ADC motor inline of the propshaft
> of a car. Whats the best way to tie in an electric motor to
> the current drive train of my diesel hilux?

A round-bore yoke such as the ones this company offers:

<http://www.ggmfg.com/product_subsubcategories.asp?subcatParent=312&catP
K=8>

The big issue seems to be that the smallish diameter of the ADC
tailshaft limits you on the available yokes and the torque they can
handle.

For the 1.125" drive end shaft, no problem:

184-0618,  6N series U joint, 116.7 ft-lbs max
184-1218, 12N series U joint, 272 ft-lbs max
184-1418, 14N series U joint, 350 ft-lbs max
184-3518, 35N series U joint, 632 ft-lbs max

However, for the 0.75" (ADC 8") tailshaft, the beefiest yoke this
supplier offers is for the 6N series U joint, so limited to 116.7 ft-lbs
of torque.

How much torque does your ICE deliver at the tranny output shaft?  That
is what the tailshaft yoke needs to withstand, provided you install the
motor such that its drive end shaft connects to the drive shaft and its
tailshaft connects to the tranny output.

This arrangement (ADC inline with tranny output) might reduce the
driveshaft length such that its operating angle becomes too steep; in
this case, it might be better to couple the ADC to the tranny output
shaft using chain or belt so that it can mount beside the driveshaft or
tranny and leave the existing driveshaft intact.

If your truck was available in 4WD, it might be possible to install the
transfer case from the 4WD model and connect the ADC in place of the
driveshaft that would normally go to the front axle.  This arrangement
has the advantage that you could shift the transfer case into 2H to keep
the electric motor from spinning when unused, which would allow you to
gear the electric motor as required for good torque without worrying
about overspeeding it when travelling at higher speeds under ICE power.

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
and which of these two fellows is you?

Mike Phillips wrote:

A fellow I know built his own 3 phase system. Cost $675 in parts. I
think  it was 20kw. The bad news is he paid someone $6k to write the
software. 
Mike

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Would he be willing to share the hardware design? I think I would be capable of
writing my own software. 

Regards,
Chet

--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A fellow I know built his own 3 phase system. Cost $675 in parts. I
> think  it was 20kw. The bad news is he paid someone $6k to write the
> software. 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Lee said:

Toyota chose to bundle their wires together, and put a braided shield
over them in their hybrids. That's relatively simple and cost effective.


 Hi Lee,

 Would the shielding have to extend over the *entire* wire set, even
over, say, the battery terminals?

 If it does not, and the resulting exposed portion is, for the sake
of argument, 5% of the total length, would the resulting noise be 5%
of what it would be with no shielding? Or is it some sort of curved
relationship? Or would not covering the entire thing make it
essentially useless?

Thanks,

Robyn

--- End Message ---
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