EV Digest 5865
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: i'm Very skeptical
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Helicoil in 3/16" aluminum.
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: 914 conversion
by "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery choice and range
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Advance motor Timing
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Karmann Ghia conversion - autostick
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: i'm Very skeptical- Chinese quality
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) CBS evening News
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: i'm Very skeptical- Chinese quality
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: 914 conversion
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) S10
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion - autostick
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Another new battery... Hybrio
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Helicoil in 3/16" aluminum.
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery choice and range
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) OT: RE: i'm Very skeptical- Chinese quality
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dodge D50 conversion
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Dodge D50 conversion
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) OT: Re: EEStor
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Karmann Ghia conversion - autostick
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Dodge D50 conversion
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: i'm Very skeptical- Chinese quality
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Also, recently encountered an interesting comment from someone who had
spent substantial time in China
> regarding shoddy workmanship. He said that there is an attitude in China
that a product doesn't have to
> be well made as long as it looks good. Appearance is everything, but it
can fall apart tomorrow. I wonder
> if this is a cultural legacy of the many years of Communism putting on a
good face (Potemkin factories, etc.).
I think most people associate China with "cheap" is because thats most of
what we see imported into NA. However, China can and does produce high
quality merchandise. All that needs to be done is to ask for it. For
example, our machine shop has several chinese machines that are equal or
better quality than american versions (half the price as well). I am also
associated with a ship builder who has very high quality parts built in
China. Basically the designer states in the specs the measureable
objectives and they build to it. It is then tested by a local engineering
facility.
Now for an EV? Depends. If spec'ed here in NA to high standards and built
in China, it will probably be good. If spec'ed in China, hmmm....
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Electro Automotive
Sent: September 9, 2006 7:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: i'm Very skeptical
At 12:05 PM 9/9/2006, you wrote:
>This is obviously a representative here in the US of one of the many
>Chinese companies now building electric vehicles. All you have to do is
>call them to find out. In my opinion China is far ahead of the US in
>bringing viable and affordable EVs to market. I will call on Monday
>myself to confirm my suspicions but the broken English and the pictures
>of the vehicles on the site lead me to this conclusion.
I'm sorry, I still have a very sour taste in my mouth from one of the
Chinese "electric car companies" that blatantly STOLE the photo of the red
Aztec from our web site and used it to "illustrate" their announcement of
their upcoming production vehicles. They of course totally ignored my cease
and desist request, and there was nothing I could do but grind my teeth.
Also, recently encountered an interesting comment from someone who had spent
substantial time in China regarding shoddy workmanship. He said that there
is an attitude in China that a product doesn't have to be well made as long
as it looks good. Appearance is everything, but it can fall apart tomorrow.
I wonder if this is a cultural legacy of the many years of Communism putting
on a good face (Potemkin factories, etc.).
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electric Car Conversion Kits *
Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:24 PM 9/12/2006, you wrote:
Has anyone heli coiled their battery box bolt holes on their USE
trucks?
I've noticed that the 6mm tapped holes get stripped easily. I've used
torque limiting on them when installed. But they are only 3/16" deep
threads, so they should be reinforced with a Helicoil or equivalent.
Mike
See http://www.olander.com Look for Nutserts, AVK. The ones we use
a lot of (1/4-20) are #/AWS2-420. They also sell a little tool for
installing them.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What are the chances that I could
> recover my costs (not
> labor) assuming that the car is pretty clean with
> new paint, tires and
> better brakes?
Recover costs? Depends on driving habits. The more
miles, the more you save on gas by buying electricity,
so the faster it pays for itself. But it is still a
process measured in years.
- actually, I meant if I were to sell it after converting it. I'm sure
it's a tough market, but it's the best bang for the buck in a usable EV
(vs NEV, single place, or Tesla-priced). If someone were to actually
try to make ends meet doing conversions, it's a tough choice. Older
cars are cheap, but usually beat up and, uh ... old. Newer cars will be
cleaner looking but there's a lot more cost to recover. Too bad,
conversions make the most sense to me.
gary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mark
Thought I'd pass this to the list 8^ )
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to this. First off it'd be nice to
know what amp draw and RPM's the motor was running at under the 12 volt test.
BTW you're lucky that wasn't a series motor when you started it on it's nose
and it spun on the Oops video 8^)
Okay here's how I see this motor and some possible options and thoughts.
One option would be to hunt up a field coil from a series wound "1344" GE.
It would make this motor a series wound motor with a perfect EV shaft style.
GE makes a lot of these 1344 sized motor so they are out there to be had.
Another thought I had was separating the shunt leads from the series wound
wire. You could then use this as a series wound motor but also have the
ability to connect the shunt for a dual speed motor with possible re-gen 8^ ).
My only concern is, are there enough winds in the series coil to do this
without over straining anything.
There has been some doubt as to whether this motor can produce enough HP to
drive a daily. This could only result in the difference of field coils as the
armatures are the same. I talked to Wayland about this and he said you could
take off in series and then connect the shunt winding once some speed was
obtained.
Just for fun when you get it back together try this. On one of the holders
there will be a small wire connected by screw from the coils. Remove it and
run the motor, it'll be much faster now (no head standing on this, okay 8^P
Now touch that wire to the holder and she'll purr right down in both RPM's and
amps.
IMO this is a new motor in awesome shape with lots of promise, and like Lee
said is NOT a 2 HP motor. You will need to do a few small things to get this
done but it'd be cake work and I could walk you through.
Bottom line is even if you put a few hundred into a series coil, you have a
9" motor for around 500 bucks, that's pretty darn good 8^) Now I know people
are running light cars with just 7" 36 / 48 prestolites so this guy should have
no problems scooting you right along 8^ )
Anyway I hope this helps, please keep us posted as to your progress and if
there are any other questions.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Battery choice and range
> > It was about 90% DOD. When I first got my EV with the GE 11.5
> motor. I did
> > a test run around a 39 mile loop around the city. The next loop I
> shorten
> > it up to 20 miles on the next loop and 10 miles on the next and etc.
> >
> > It still ran fine on a level, but would would slow way down on a slight
> > upgrade about 1 miles from my home, so I stop the EV for 15 minutes
> allowing
> > for the batteries to defuse, (giving time for the acid deep in the
> plates to
> > come to the surface), this was 75.1 miles at that time.
> >
> > I was able to get over the hump at about 10 mph and than was able to
> coast
> > all the way down hill right into my garage.
>
> Did you include the 10mph to your range, or is the 75.1 miles only at
> 50mph?
The 75.1 was the miles, when I first stop the EV.
I did this only one time. Going to work which I would roller coast up a
steep hill at 300-600 amps, I would only get 15 miles at 50% DOD.
Today I only discharge the batteries to 70 to 80% SOC or 20 to 30% DOD
which is about 18 miles.
>
> > My Specific Gravity was about 1.100 SG plus or minus 0.01.
> >
> > 90% DOD (Depth of Discharge) is the same as 10% SOC(State of Charge)
> or
> > sometimes call Percentage of Charge.
> >
>
> What do those SG numbers mean to those of us with SLA packs?
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mark
Great news! Was there any difference in current draw once you advanced it?
Also I'm wondering if in fact this is with the same brushes (grade) as before?
Anyway congrats, now you have that "I fixed it myself EV grin" 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
"Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
I just measure on the brush assembly (easier) 90 degrees, say it's 4" from mark
to mark. Cut in half to 2" and that's 45 degrees, then 1" is 22.5 degrees, half
is 11.25, I then redrilled a scooch over at 7-8 degrees into the motor rotation
in the forward direction. This removed my arcing and helped me sustain speed
better going up hills on my direct drive 72V Cushman and has done well for the
last 1000 miles or 3 weeks of driving.
best Regards,
Mark
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2ยข/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug,
Dont sweat with the stock clutch cable tube, you can install a hydraulic
clutch pedal and run the brake line tube wherever you like (within
reason). I used one on the Voltbuggy and it was not that hard to install
the cylinder at the tranny. I used a NEAL pedal assembly and it included
the brake pedal in a nice clean installation. If cost is an issue go to a
Dune buggy shop they may have some used ones, also check out ebay. The
best part is you dont have any cables to inspect in tight places and once
it is set up it is repeatable and the stroke is more than enough. Also
the brake master cylinder is 10 times better thatn the stock one.
If you decide to eliminate the clutch: When downshifting you press the
shifter slowly into lower gears down to 2nd (let the syncros do the work)
and "double accelerate" to downshift into 1st - but if you are coming to a
stop just wait until your stopped then downshift. When upshifting you
need to be patient and press on the shifter lever firmly (but not too
fast) until the syncros let you finish the shift at their own pace.
Check out my write up on the Karmann GhiLectric at:
https://www.dm3electrics.com/
Jimmy
Doug Weathers wrote:
> 1) Swap the autostick chassis, along with the transaxle, for a manual
> version. The autostick is rarer than the manual and should be worth
> more than a manual in similar condition, so I don't expect there
> would be much financial impact.
I think pulling the body and swapping chassis is a bigger job than
installing a clutch cable tube. Now, if the Ghia's floorpan needs work
anyway, it might not be a bad idea to swap for a manual tranny chassis
while the body is off, but I personally would not pull the body just
because of a clutch cable tube.
> 2) Run a clutch tube down the outside of the center tunnel,
> inside the car and near the floor. It will be covered up with
> carpet and you won't know it's there. (Is this a bad idea, VW
> experts?
Problem here is that the cable has to hook over the little arm on the
lcutch pedal shaft, and this arm is *inside* the center tunnel. You
could run the tube along the outside of the tunnel, but you'd have to
drill a hole in the tunnel and bring the tube back inside 6" or so
before the opening where the pedal assembly bolts to the tunnel. Less
of a problem at the other end of the car, though you might still want to
drill a hole in the side of the tunnel and bring the tube into the
tunnel as a means of getting it cleanly out to the tranny.
I'm not sure how different the Ghia floorpan is from the Beetle's, but
on the Beetle there is an access panel at the front that unbolts to
allow access to the hollow tunnel. It would not seem to be such a huge
undertaking to slide a clutch tube into the tunnel and then drill or cut
a couple of access holes in the sheet metal floor of the tunnel in
appropriate places to allow attaching clamps to hold the tube into
position. Seal the access holes with sheet metal covers afterwards.
> > You would also have to install a pedal cluster with a clutch pedal.
Again, my experience is with Beetle, but if the Ghia is not too
dissimilar, than this is not a big problem. In the Beetle, the pedal
assembly attaches to the tunnel with a pair of bolts; just remove the
original pedal assembly and replace with a manual tranny set.
> Cons [of clutchless]:
>
> More wear on the syncros in the transmission
In the case of an aircooled VW, it may also mean more wear on the shift
forks. These are what slide the syncros back and forth to engage the
gear of your choosing, and they are relatively soft such that they can
bend if you apply too much pressure trying to encourage a gear to engage
before it is ready, etc. I haven't tried shifting clutchless in an
electric VW, but have a lot of experience speed shifting ICE VWs. ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last event there was at least one person from Sacramento and there
were other people from some distance away, so you may try to share
a ride, check for bus/train schedules or find other alternatives,
for example http://www.carpoolworld.com/.
I hear that both Tesla and AC Propulsion have a decent range.
They should be able to pick you up? ;-}
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 5:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo
Alto
> A reminder to make a note on your calendars to attend the 34th
> annual Silicon Valley EAA Chapter Rally being held Saturday
> September 30th from 10am to 4pm in the Palo Alto High School front
> parking lot (across from Stanford U.). Map:
>
I contemplated going, being less than 90 miles away, but besides 2hrs
of driving at my usual sub-55mph EV speed, I would need >3hrs of
top-up charging on the way, and would have to stay 5hrs at the rally
for a full charge, without even running in the rally! That's at least
15hrs devoted to EV travel vs 3hrs or less for gas - no wonder folks
want to tow around a generator! It seems hypocritical to go that far
ICE-powered to participate in an EV rally.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I currently sourced a complex aluminum casting that is
7"x7"x2.5", has a bearing bore inserted and has 3
machined operations. This is for my 60 amp continuous
BLDC control used on commercial transit busses. The
quality of the casting is excellent and produced at an
unbelievable cost of $3.56 per casting. I would
speculate this could not be produced in the states at
7 to 10 times the cost. I often wonder whether the
quality of 'junk' produced in China is more the
influence of US suppliers looking for the absolute
minimum cost margin. If quality products are
specified and engineered with the right supplier they
can produce acceptable product. So who is to blame?
Chinese suppliers or cut throat companies in the US
demanding absolute minimum price at the expense of
quality? If engineered and specified properly you can
recieve quality product from China. This is troubling
indeed for the engineer that must decide the cost
trade-offs of producing a new product. Seeing a field
of manufacturing equipment collecting dust in our
factory is very troubling. Somehow we must figure out
how to become more competative in the global
marketplace without blaming 'Chinese junk'. Most of
the stuff we use from China is not 'junk', just much
more cost effective. Until we figure out how to cost
compete with China products we'll be fighting an
uphill battle.
I think that China can produce a quality EV given the
finacial and market incentive. I am certainly not
holding out on the big 3 to produce an EV that we can
afford anytime soon. My quess is an affordable EV at
CostCo in the next 5 years!
Rod
--- "Christian, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Danny,
>
> You are stepping into some ill-thought out areas
> here. I have been China
> 3 times in the last year and I regularly deal with
> some very capable
> engineers in China. I am not a big fan of their
> politics, but I have had
> to admit that their engineer skill is quite
> advanced. Also (strangely),
> they have embraced much of the business economy
> model and they know how
> to compete.
>
> Regardless of what I have seen or think, you should
> carefully consider
> making such generalizations about any group of 1
> billion folks.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Danny Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 3:43 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: i'm Very skeptical
>
> No it's just the state of the marketplace. Either
> the market doesn't
> care about poor quality if the price is right, or
> the consequences of
> producing poor quality product just don't catch up
> with the mfg who
> makes it.
>
> But China CAN produce high quality mfg at low
> prices. They can also
> produce cheap crap. The cheap crap is probably the
> bulk of their
> business because that's what most buyers seem happy
> with.
>
> Now when you want something innovative done, China
> typically doesn't
> seem to be able to fit the bill. That's a
> consequence of a culture of
> conformity. You might blame it on a cultural
> shutout, but no one of
> Chinese nationality has ever won a Nobel prize.
>
> It's hard to picture them designing and pulling off
> a quality EV.
>
> Danny
>
> Mike Ellis wrote:
>
> > Maybe it's a lesson learned from American
> automobile manufacturers.
> ;-)
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > On 9/9/06, Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Also, recently encountered an interesting comment
> from someone who
> >> had spent substantial time in China regarding
> shoddy workmanship. He
> >> said that there is an attitude in China that a
> product doesn't have
> >> to be well made as long as it looks good.
> Appearance is everything,
> >> but it can fall apart tomorrow. I wonder if this
> is a cultural
> >> legacy of the many years of Communism putting on
> a good face
> >> (Potemkin factories, etc.).
> >>
> >> Shari Prange
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heads up on the west side, If you can, try and watch the CBS Evening News, I'll
swear that our friends at "pluginamerica"
wrote the piece on "The Car of the Future" hope they repeat it.
Joe in Cincy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod, An excellent rebuttal with real life figures. I have seen an electric
car from China with an excellent fit and finish and believe they can compete
quite effectively in the world market. If we are ever to compete then it
will have to be in the creative department because there is no way we will
be able to compete in the labor market.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: i'm Very skeptical- Chinese quality
I currently sourced a complex aluminum casting that is
7"x7"x2.5", has a bearing bore inserted and has 3
machined operations. This is for my 60 amp continuous
BLDC control used on commercial transit busses. The
quality of the casting is excellent and produced at an
unbelievable cost of $3.56 per casting. I would
speculate this could not be produced in the states at
7 to 10 times the cost. I often wonder whether the
quality of 'junk' produced in China is more the
influence of US suppliers looking for the absolute
minimum cost margin. If quality products are
specified and engineered with the right supplier they
can produce acceptable product. So who is to blame?
Chinese suppliers or cut throat companies in the US
demanding absolute minimum price at the expense of
quality? If engineered and specified properly you can
recieve quality product from China. This is troubling
indeed for the engineer that must decide the cost
trade-offs of producing a new product. Seeing a field
of manufacturing equipment collecting dust in our
factory is very troubling. Somehow we must figure out
how to become more competative in the global
marketplace without blaming 'Chinese junk'. Most of
the stuff we use from China is not 'junk', just much
more cost effective. Until we figure out how to cost
compete with China products we'll be fighting an
uphill battle.
I think that China can produce a quality EV given the
finacial and market incentive. I am certainly not
holding out on the big 3 to produce an EV that we can
afford anytime soon. My quess is an affordable EV at
CostCo in the next 5 years!
Rod
--- "Christian, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Danny,
You are stepping into some ill-thought out areas
here. I have been China
3 times in the last year and I regularly deal with
some very capable
engineers in China. I am not a big fan of their
politics, but I have had
to admit that their engineer skill is quite
advanced. Also (strangely),
they have embraced much of the business economy
model and they know how
to compete.
Regardless of what I have seen or think, you should
carefully consider
making such generalizations about any group of 1
billion folks.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 3:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: i'm Very skeptical
No it's just the state of the marketplace. Either
the market doesn't
care about poor quality if the price is right, or
the consequences of
producing poor quality product just don't catch up
with the mfg who
makes it.
But China CAN produce high quality mfg at low
prices. They can also
produce cheap crap. The cheap crap is probably the
bulk of their
business because that's what most buyers seem happy
with.
Now when you want something innovative done, China
typically doesn't
seem to be able to fit the bill. That's a
consequence of a culture of
conformity. You might blame it on a cultural
shutout, but no one of
Chinese nationality has ever won a Nobel prize.
It's hard to picture them designing and pulling off
a quality EV.
Danny
Mike Ellis wrote:
> Maybe it's a lesson learned from American
automobile manufacturers.
;-)
>
> -Mike
>
> On 9/9/06, Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>> Also, recently encountered an interesting comment
from someone who
>> had spent substantial time in China regarding
shoddy workmanship. He
>> said that there is an attitude in China that a
product doesn't have
>> to be well made as long as it looks good.
Appearance is everything,
>> but it can fall apart tomorrow. I wonder if this
is a cultural
>> legacy of the many years of Communism putting on
a good face
>> (Potemkin factories, etc.).
>>
>> Shari Prange
>
>
--
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> What are the chances that I could
> > recover my costs (not
> > labor) assuming that the car is pretty clean with
> > new paint, tires and
> > better brakes?
> Recover costs? Depends on driving habits. The more
> miles, the more you save on gas by buying
> electricity,
> so the faster it pays for itself. But it is still a
> process measured in years.
>
> - actually, I meant if I were to sell it after
> converting it. I'm sure
> it's a tough market, but it's the best bang for the
> buck in a usable EV
My Civic EV is based on a glider (frame) worth 2500 as
a gas burner today. The parts in the EV, including
1st set of batteries cost $9,000-- less if I get used
parts.
That's 11,000.
A Civvy del Sol just like mine (18 batteries) as well
as a hatch version sold for "close to" that.
Therefore, these individuals almost broke even. But
they were sold as gasoline approached highest cost,
and they were in CHERRY condition (ie, good batts.,
ceramic heaters, no corners cut RE: circuit breakers,
tie-downs, etc.)
If you look on the EV trading post, you can
occasionally pick up a complete conversion for 3K--
but they are rare. Consider the VoltsRabbit in Santa
Cruz listed right now. Considering the worth of the
parts (above), it makes lots of sense to buy it, and
strip her down, add $700 or so for an adapter plate to
a more updated model (let's say a Civic, for sake of
argument) and buy the glider to put it in. 3K sale +
700 adapter plate + 2500 glider, is 6200. You still
come out 2k ahead by going this route.
With all due respect to Rabbits, and those that
convert them thanks to good kits from reputable
converters, it's less likely you'll come close to
breaking even with a model like that, _in my humble
opinion_.
Sooo:
-what is the price of gas as you sell?
-what is the market for an EV in the driving area?
-what are the federal & state tax incentives?
-what type of conversion did you do? Floodies/AGM?
Truck/car? heater/not?
Hope that helps,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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Got my electric '95 S10 registered yesterday in Searsport, Maine. No BS when
you register in the town hall!
They just checked "other" for fuel. They know me and I have already done two
other ev's, so they're used to it.
So, now that I can almost legally run it on the road (not inspected yet), I am
sorting out tweaking things. I currently have about 86V of nicads onboard. The
acceleration is less than startling! I installed another 15V of nicads today
and will charge them tomorrow. It has a Curtis 1231 that has a max voltage of
120V. If the nominal pack voltage is 120V, these nicads can be a fair bit
higher right off the charger. How much slack do I have with the Curtis?
I adjusted the acceleration pot all the way up. I am reluctant to increase the
current setting, but will probably tweak it up a little. Right now, it only is
going to 300A.
Will be running it up to a mechanic friend's garage to add some springs in the
rear and have him go over some annoying GM issues and also do an inspection.
Had it up to 40mph in second gear. Slipped it into third and the current draw
went way up. That seemed a bit odd to me. Was on slight incline, suppose that
is to be expected.
I have been used to small vehicles like Elcars and Gizmos, usually with
contactors, so this is a little different. Is nice having a lot of sheet metal
around me.
BTW, just shipped off an Elcar to Hawaii! The more I look at these, the more I
like their simplicity. They weren't perfect by any means, but they were fun.
Tom
hotandcold.tv
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Does anyone (still) make a kit to connect a motor to the VW tranny & clutch?
I've seen a couple *very* fast Ghias/Bugs on the sites... but never knew
what they used to convert them over.
BTW, aren't the pedal assemblies the same as in the Beetle of that era? If
not, there are still lots of setups for getting it to work. A dune buggy
pedal setup could work very well. If I recall, they often use a hydraulic
clutch, which is easier to route.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: Karmann Ghia conversion - autostick
> > However, the big deal
> > breaker on a manual transmission installation is fact that the
> > factory did not put a tube inside the center tunnel for the clutch
> > cable to run through. Installing such a tube is an expensive
> > proposition. You would also have to install a pedal cluster with a
> > clutch pedal.
>
> Or go clutchless. Wouldn't be the first EV without a clutch.
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The point of these is that they can be sold in a shop ready charged,
which apparently is one of the main barriers to rechargeable sales at
the moment. Don't really understand that, but there you go.
And I guess with lower self-discharge they'll be more useable in
things like clocks and other low drain applications, but I wouldn't
pay a big premium for that personally.
Anyway, this is nothing to do with EVs unless you count radio controlled toys..
On 9/12/06, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
While the hybriousa link is extremely limited, apparently the batts
are available in the UK already. And are made by a company called
Uniross.
http://www.uniross.com/uniross.htm
On 9/12/06, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I searched my archives of the list for the name but didn't find it:
> http://www.hybriousa.com/
> The website looks like a sham to me, but this is hitting all the eco news
sites.
> -Mike
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G'day All
Lots of discussion about Helicoils, but none about material compatability.
Are the battery boxes *always* dry? If not then putting a steel helicoil,
t-nut, rivet-nut etc is asking for a bigger hole from dissimilar metal
electrolytic corrosion.
Helicoils would be a poor choice, but even they should be stronger than
tapped 3/16 aluminium. If the tapped aluminium lasted fairly well, then a
helicoil (properly installed) should be OK.
My vote would be stainless t-nuts (following a philosophy of overkill),
even if needed to be custom machined, provided there is enough room to fit
them. If t-nuts won't fit then try and get stainless rivet-nuts or if the
position is always dry then normal rivet-nuts (not sure what the 'real'
name is for them).
Regards
[Technik] James
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On 12 Sep 2006 at 9:13, Roland Wiench wrote:
> I take it as to mean 5 amperes per hour.
"Amperes per hour" would be a rate of increase or decrease in current. For
example, if your charger began charging the batteries at 20 amps and one
hour later was charging them at 15 amps, then its taper rate - rate of
change in charge rate, if you will - could be said to be 5 amperes per hour
(for that one hour!).
In the usage in your post (at least as I understood it) you could reasonably
say "5 amp-hours per hour," but that's mathematically the same thing as
saying "5 amps" (or more precisely "an average of 5 amps").
I could go off on another amps vs. amp-hours and batteries vs. cells rant,
but you've all heard that one before. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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At 07:00 PM 12/09/06 -0700, Rod wrote:
<snip> I often wonder whether the
quality of 'junk' produced in China is more the
influence of US suppliers looking for the absolute
minimum cost margin. If quality products are
specified and engineered with the right supplier they
can produce acceptable product. So who is to blame?
G'day All
As someone else has already pointed out, Chinese stuff can be good and
often is bad. One of my customers runs a CNC machine shop with a lot of the
jobs being machining of castings. The local foundry could not keep up with
the orders, so the client arranged for some castings to be done in China
under exact specification. End result - 1/3 of the first shipment of
castings were useable, the rest were junk. Much ass kicking later about 70%
of castings are useable, but they cost three times as much to machine,
since the castings are oversize in unpredictable ways and there is often a
lot of casting sand in the castings, reducing tool life to around 50%.
Machining equipment (lathes and milling machines, etc) seem to be 20%
heavier than similar capacity machines from other origins - substituting
heavier cross-sections for either engineering design or material quality.
But, a Yeon Hab mil-spec connector seems identical in every parameter to a
Cannon connector of the same spec.
In a country of however many thousand million that they now have you should
expect a range from fine engineering to the lowest tech that gets the job
done. What is more important than "is it made in China?" is the question
"is it up to spec?". Remember the 1970s when "Japanese junk" and "Jap crap"
was the asociation for items from Japan? now the Japanese lead the world in
consistent high-quality mass production - even from their factories located
in China, the Philipines, etc.
The issue that I see with the Chinese manufacturing standards is that they
are being asked to make far too much stuff with far too few skilled people,
so the majority of stuff is being made by underskilled people. Let's all
keep our fingers crossed that the engineers in their LiPo battery factories
are skilled in all the right areas, and the purity of their raw materials
is up to scratch.
Just my $0.02 from the peanut gallery.
Regards
[Technik] James
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got the 88 dodge ram 50 home, thanked dad for the loan of the 16' trailer
with no lights :op
ran the 50's parking lights on the way home :oD
dad's got a ~300 foot coil of 2/0 copper wire, made to be buried, solid
copper, very heavy strand, asked him if I could buy some off him... he said
no
said, take the whole roll, what you don't use, bring back
very happy camper at the moment :oP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: Dodge D50 conversion
:op
already have a 95 dodge dakota 2wd for my ICE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: Dodge D50 conversion
2WD, 88 model, grill says it's a Ram 50
manual steering, vacuum assist brakes
4 speed standard, shift in the floor
gotta pull the seat and see if I can lower it a couple inches, I almost
scalped myself getting out of it, 0-0 dang door frame is too small, lol
needs a windshield and a couple of tires to go on the back
heck, it runs pretty good, hadn't started in months, she hopped in
and it
started right up
thing is, it gets hot, I think they put the thermostat in upside
down when
the were working on it, probably be able to sell the motor for a few
bucks
Aw, heck, if you're already gonna fix stuff on it, run it as your long
distance ICE alternative, and get a NON-running one for conversion,
but I guess you'll find someone who needs a good motor when you take
it out!
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I will be interested in hearing how the conversion goes as I have one in
the driveway. A word of warning on lowering the seats. I did that in
mine to lower center of gravity and to use a racing seat so i wouldn't
slide around so much during autocrosses. When you lower the seating
position it makes the effective leg length longer. The cab is short, if
you have long legs (or as I found, short legs and a thick midsection
:-( ) , this can be an issue.
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Oh MAN! I was trying to remember what was in the back of my mind when
such a high voltage cap was mentioned.
Quarter Shrinker!!
Yeah it's a real process, only a few people have managed to build rigs
because the availability of the right caps (high voltage, high cap, low
inductance, insanely high current capability) is extremely low. Bert
Hickman is the guru of this field. Basically a cap is very suddenly
switched into a coil made of a few copper turns. With the current and
voltage high enough, the change in magnetic flux is so high the induced
currents partially melt the coin while magnetic forces crush it. End
result, a quarter will be shunk to the size of a dime. Of course no
mass is lost and the metal's density is similar, the shunken coin is
much thicker. The simple description doesn't do justice to the violence
and magnitude of the discharge, which can be a great many kiloamps and
utterly destroys the copper coil in a blinding plasma explosion.
http://205.243.100.155/frames/shrinkergallery.html
Sorry, can't be done with EV batteries. EEStor 3500V bank... might be
able to do it if you had strong busbars!
I *did* say it was Off Topic.
Danny
Jay Caplan wrote:
Here is a link for info on the EEStor ultracapacitor bank planned.
It has 2320 capacitors totalling 31F at 3500V, 336 lbs, 1.2 cubic feet,
charges in 6 minutes and stores 52.2 KW-hrs. $3100 initially projected
price.
http://www.rexresearch.com/weir/weir.htm
http://www.rexresearch.com/weir/us7033406.pdf patent details
Any recent news or comments on EEStor?
Jay
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On Sep 12, 2006, at 7:38 PM, Michael Perry wrote:
Does anyone (still) make a kit to connect a motor to the VW tranny &
clutch?
You bet. <http://www.electroauto.com> does. <http://www.evparts.com>
carries another one. <http://www.ev-america.com> sells a clutchless
adapter. I'm sure there are more.
But then, how many adapters does a person need?
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
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Mark McCurdy wrote:
> dad's got a ~300 foot coil of 2/0 copper wire, made to be
> buried, solid copper, very heavy strand, asked him if I
> could buy some off him... he said no
>
> said, take the whole roll, what you don't use, bring back
> very happy camper at the moment :oP
Give Dad back the roll and thank him for the offer of inappropriate
cable ;^>
Unless this is "Cabtire" type cable (rubber sheath, flexible, like a
humungous extension cord), the very coarse stranding (perhaps a dozen or
so strands vs the 1300-3300 strands of good welding cable) of
residential type 2/0 makes it very stiff (you bend it 90 degrees and it
holds the bend) and difficult to work with in an EV environment. The
lack of flexibility will lead to the strands fatiguing from vibration
and breaking.
Good welding cable can be had for only a couple $/foot, so it really
isn't a place to skimp as you can't shave much off the conversion cost
when the total cost of the proper cable is only perhaps $100-150.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Roderick: Which EV is this? The Xebra is a reasonably fit EV, but not up to
the US market in fit and finish. (Then again, it's also half the price of
most MCs... and not bad for a first try.) Do you know of another car that
could compete, say, against the high standard of the Yugo?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: i'm Very skeptical- Chinese quality
> Rod, An excellent rebuttal with real life figures. I have seen an electric
> car from China with an excellent fit and finish and believe they can
compete
> quite effectively in the world market. If we are ever to compete then it
> will have to be in the creative department because there is no way we will
> be able to compete in the labor market.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> EV Parts, Inc.
> www.evparts.com
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