EV Digest 5866
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Another car show
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Cheap EV motor
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: i'm Very skeptical
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Dodge D50 conversion
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) 06 NEDRA PIR Late Nite Nationals (Part 2)
by "Jim Waite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: i'm Very skeptical- Chinese quality
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: i'm Very skeptical
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dodge D50 conversion
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Dodge D50 conversion
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Battery choice and range
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Another new battery... Hybrio
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Dodge D50 conversion
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: i'm Very skeptical- Chinese quality
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Dodge D50 conversion
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Altair Nanotechnology Battery Demo
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Addendum to Datsun article on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Addendum to Datsun article on eBay
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: i'm Very skeptical
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Helicoil in 3/16" aluminum.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
by "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Datsun 1200 Electric Car Pages on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Gear ratio vs. horsepower
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Addendum to Datsun article on eBay
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: My motor arrived -- there are questions =)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Potter & Brumfield Relay for Ceramic Heater
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Who makes the epod?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
32) Re: Who makes the epod?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
33) Dateline article
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a source for both Lexan and Plexiglas:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/me/plexiglas.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, all the ammeters I find on home depot, lowes, sears are AC/DC Voltage
but only AC amp measurement
any suggestions on a meter that will measure DC amp draw?
no making fun of the newb, I know it's easy sometimes but control yourself
:op
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: Cheap EV motor
Hey Mark
Thought I'd pass this to the list 8^ )
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to this. First off it'd be nice
to know what amp draw and RPM's the motor was running at under the 12 volt
test. BTW you're lucky that wasn't a series motor when you started it on
it's nose and it spun on the Oops video 8^)
Okay here's how I see this motor and some possible options and thoughts.
One option would be to hunt up a field coil from a series wound "1344"
GE. It would make this motor a series wound motor with a perfect EV
shaft style. GE makes a lot of these 1344 sized motor so they are out
there to be had.
Another thought I had was separating the shunt leads from the series
wound wire. You could then use this as a series wound motor but also have
the ability to connect the shunt for a dual speed motor with possible
re-gen 8^ ). My only concern is, are there enough winds in the series
coil to do this without over straining anything.
There has been some doubt as to whether this motor can produce enough HP
to drive a daily. This could only result in the difference of field coils
as the armatures are the same. I talked to Wayland about this and he said
you could take off in series and then connect the shunt winding once some
speed was obtained.
Just for fun when you get it back together try this. On one of the
holders there will be a small wire connected by screw from the coils.
Remove it and run the motor, it'll be much faster now (no head standing on
this, okay 8^P Now touch that wire to the holder and she'll purr right
down in both RPM's and amps.
IMO this is a new motor in awesome shape with lots of promise, and like
Lee said is NOT a 2 HP motor. You will need to do a few small things to
get this done but it'd be cake work and I could walk you through.
Bottom line is even if you put a few hundred into a series coil, you have
a 9" motor for around 500 bucks, that's pretty darn good 8^) Now I know
people are running light cars with just 7" 36 / 48 prestolites so this guy
should have no problems scooting you right along 8^ )
Anyway I hope this helps, please keep us posted as to your progress and
if there are any other questions.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd say it's probably from looking at China closely. They don't understand
the American way of looking at products. For them, in the most part, once
it's purchased, it's yours. Any problems they *may* consider (very few,
including not working at all) is, at best, FOB their factory.
Considering freight might be 50% of the cost of the product, one must use
care when purchasing from China.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: i'm Very skeptical
> Maybe it's a lesson learned from American automobile manufacturers. ;-)
>
> -Mike
>
> On 9/9/06, Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Also, recently encountered an interesting comment from someone who
> > had spent substantial time in China regarding shoddy workmanship. He
> > said that there is an attitude in China that a product doesn't have
> > to be well made as long as it looks good. Appearance is everything,
> > but it can fall apart tomorrow. I wonder if this is a cultural
> > legacy of the many years of Communism putting on a good face
> > (Potemkin factories, etc.).
> >
> > Shari Prange
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> dad's got a ~300 foot coil of 2/0 copper wire, made to be buried, solid
> copper, very heavy strand, asked him if I could buy some off him...
You usually want fine strands, as in welding cable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go to: http://www.photoshow.net/battcar/pir_august_2006
and click on "NEDRA_PIR_2006 Trackside".
[DSL takes ~ 1 minute to load, dial-up users may want to wait until they can
visit/use a PC w/high speed access]
Again sorry this took so long to publish and the video clips are so short
(The camera was donated, the software was free (until tonight:-(, and the
videographer/editor is definitely a rookie)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe these two cars and two vans could be imported without the motor
installed and then install it once it gets here?
http://www.motorfactories.com/ec003.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK... name a single company (until faced with the market place in the US)
who has ever warranted their product to the local market. Their engineers
can produce great products... often corrupted by buying from multiple small
companies.
This leverages their production capacity, but for the US market, it often
means substandard products (depending on who produces it) with limited or
zero warranty.
BTW, Lithium batts were never considered a risk, until poorly designed batts
started pouring out of China. Just one example.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: i'm Very skeptical
> Danny,
>
> You are stepping into some ill-thought out areas here. I have been China
> 3 times in the last year and I regularly deal with some very capable
> engineers in China. I am not a big fan of their politics, but I have had
> to admit that their engineer skill is quite advanced. Also (strangely),
> they have embraced much of the business economy model and they know how
> to compete.
>
> Regardless of what I have seen or think, you should carefully consider
> making such generalizations about any group of 1 billion folks.
>
> John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Last event there was at least one person from Sacramento and there
> were other people from some distance away, so you may try to share
> a ride, check for bus/train schedules or find other alternatives,
> for example http://www.carpoolworld.com/.
>
> I hear that both Tesla and AC Propulsion have a decent range.
> They should be able to pick you up? ;-}
>
The point was travel time -- all my public transit options are
ICE-powered, low on convenience, high on time required, and cost more
than driving my gas car. If I had to (e.g.- didn't have my own
vehicles), I'd look into every alternative. Not wanting to spend 15hrs
of EV-based travel *or* use any ICEs getting to an electric EVent, I
prefer to read any of this rally's great revelations online ;) Of
course, I'd also like to heard that plenty of people made it in person!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
oookay, hmm,
http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/0020x.html
how about this?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: Dodge D50 conversion
dad's got a ~300 foot coil of 2/0 copper wire, made to be buried, solid
copper, very heavy strand, asked him if I could buy some off him...
You usually want fine strands, as in welding cable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Item # Description Price Qty Extended 304-1330 2/0 Weld Cable Black 2.59
x 1 EA. $129.50 SubTotal $129.50 Sales Tax
(Illinois Orders Only) $0.00
Shipping$15.37
Total $144.87 for 50 feet of 2/0?
www.weldingsupply.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: Dodge D50 conversion
oookay, hmm, http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/weldingdepot/0020x.html
how about this?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: Dodge D50 conversion
dad's got a ~300 foot coil of 2/0 copper wire, made to be buried, solid
copper, very heavy strand, asked him if I could buy some off him...
You usually want fine strands, as in welding cable.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The 75.1 was the miles, when I first stop the EV.
>
> I did this only one time. Going to work which I would roller coast
up a
> steep hill at 300-600 amps, I would only get 15 miles at 50% DOD.
>
> Today I only discharge the batteries to 70 to 80% SOC or 20 to 30% DOD
> which is about 18 miles.
>
This isn't the best number to use. Better to run your car at 50mph on
a flat road, turn around and immediately run it the opposite
direction. This cancels out not-quite-level roads and winds; the watts
or watt-hrs/mi (amps or amp-hrs/mi ignores voltage sag) will be more
useful for other EV owners to use for comparison, and if you have an
emeter, you can do this over a very short distance and average the two
directions without having to do a full range run.
I only have the meters that come in an OEM Ranger, none of which are
digital or accurate! I'd have to:
1) Fully charge the truck,
2) get to the nearest long, flat road,
3) drive both ways on that road,
4) get back to the charger,
5) fully charge the truck,
6) get kwh announcement from the Avcon (a whole number, unless it's
been reset to zero, in which case it reads tenths up to 100kwh)
This number is not energy from the pack, but *from the mains*, which
also takes into account charger efficiency. I don't know how I'd get
an accurate "in use" watt-hrs/mi from the truck as it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The point of these is that they can be sold in a shop ready charged,
> which apparently is one of the main barriers to rechargeable sales at
> the moment. Don't really understand that, but there you go.
>
> And I guess with lower self-discharge they'll be more useable in
> things like clocks and other low drain applications, but I wouldn't
> pay a big premium for that personally.
>
> Anyway, this is nothing to do with EVs unless you count radio
controlled toys..
>
Their specs show nothing useful for an EV - same energy and power
capabilities as any other consumer-size NiMH or Li cell, so if
self-discharge is the only benefit, then yes, they are as important to
this list as a new model of button battery.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ooooo, shot down in the prime of my life :op
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 11:19 PM
Subject: RE: Dodge D50 conversion
Mark McCurdy wrote:
dad's got a ~300 foot coil of 2/0 copper wire, made to be
buried, solid copper, very heavy strand, asked him if I
could buy some off him... he said no
said, take the whole roll, what you don't use, bring back
very happy camper at the moment :oP
Give Dad back the roll and thank him for the offer of inappropriate
cable ;^>
Unless this is "Cabtire" type cable (rubber sheath, flexible, like a
humungous extension cord), the very coarse stranding (perhaps a dozen or
so strands vs the 1300-3300 strands of good welding cable) of
residential type 2/0 makes it very stiff (you bend it 90 degrees and it
holds the bend) and difficult to work with in an EV environment. The
lack of flexibility will lead to the strands fatiguing from vibration
and breaking.
Good welding cable can be had for only a couple $/foot, so it really
isn't a place to skimp as you can't shave much off the conversion cost
when the total cost of the proper cable is only perhaps $100-150.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought I was crazy, but it seems others are now seeing this. I call
it the wallmart syndrom. The mid level American distributors decided we
want the absolute lowest cost not the best value. They order and spec
this junk and outsource it to get rid of the last bit of functionality
for that last penny of gouging profits. I bought 4 hose clamps from OSH
for the water lines to the zilla and they wouldn't work. To low of a
quantity to even work. I would of gladly paid a little more for an item
that actually worked, and indeed I did, when I went to a napa parts
store instead. the irony is, Soon I will be ordering parts from Europe
or Australia, or direct from manufactures because if an American
distributer is involved, it is junk. No offense to the few reputable
distributors that remain.
This problem has now trickled down to car parts stores in the area of
connectors and bolts. One distributer decides what few part numbers each
store will carry and they all carry the same exact few part numbers;
diluting their market. Like duh, how many alternator plugs for a 70's
chevy alternators can you sell? there are about 38 in fresno but none
for a 95 GM product... Stupid.
Now that i have seen some of the other side, outsourcing molds and
learning how wallmart and home depot are consignment stores who force
vendors to buy remaining stock thru the front registers when told to
remove the product. The death of commerce.
To bring this back to EV's I hope we can strive for best value and not
chaepest price when we talk about ev companies, parts, kits, etc. I
think the zilla and the PFC line of chargers are examples of good values.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Item # Description Price Qty Extended 304-1330 2/0 Weld Cable
Black 2.59
> x 1 EA. $129.50 SubTotal $129.50 Sales Tax
> (Illinois Orders Only) $0.00
> Shipping$15.37
>
> Total $144.87 for 50 feet of 2/0?
>
> www.weldingsupply.com
That's the stuff! But before you order any online, check the yellow
pages for local welding supply stores and call them for prices. And
don't rule out metal suppliers that stock copper sheet - they can cut
this into strips for buss bar. Buss bar just needs a hole drilled for
batteries with bolt studs, but then you'll want to cover it to prevent
oxidation and risk of plasma events.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Plus if you plug into the wrong outlet Bruce will yell at you :0
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Death to All Spammers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > A reminder to make a note on your calendars to attend the 34th
> > annual Silicon Valley EAA Chapter Rally being held Saturday
> > September 30th from 10am to 4pm in the Palo Alto High School front
> > parking lot (across from Stanford U.). Map:
> >
>
> I contemplated going, being less than 90 miles away, but besides 2hrs
> of driving at my usual sub-55mph EV speed, I would need >3hrs of
> top-up charging on the way, and would have to stay 5hrs at the rally
> for a full charge, without even running in the rally! That's at least
> 15hrs devoted to EV travel vs 3hrs or less for gas - no wonder folks
> want to tow around a generator! It seems hypocritical to go that far
> ICE-powered to participate in an EV rally.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is anyone going to attend the Altair Nanotechnology presentation and
demo at the CARB ZEV Tech Symposium On Sept 27? Altair is claiming to
have a Lithium Ion battery that has over 9,000 useful cycles and doesn't
catch fire nor explodes. They are scheduled to ship a load of their
batteries to Phoenix Motorocars for fleet testing with an expected range
of 250 miles. Here's an excerpt from Altair's Press Release:
"RENO, Nev.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 12, 2006--Advances in the
manufacture of safe, fast-charging, long-lasting batteries used to power
electric and hybrid electric vehicles will be addressed by Altair
Nanotechnologies Inc. (NASDAQ: ALTI
<http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=alti&d=t> - News
<http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=alti>) at the California Air Resources
Board Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Technology Symposium, held September
25-27, 2006 in Sacramento, California.
On September 27, at 2:30 p.m., Evan House, Ph.D., Director of
Altairnano's Advanced Materials & Power Systems business unit, will
deliver a presentation on Altairnano's NanoSafe(TM) rechargeable
nano-titanate battery program. In addition, Altairnano will demonstrate
its NanoSafe battery technology throughout the Zero Emission Vehicles
conference....
Altairnano NanoSafe battery cells have now achieved over 9,000 charge
and discharge cycles at rates up to 40 times greater than are typical of
common batteries, while retaining up to 85 percent charge capacity."
From a Aug 24th Motley Fool Write up by Jack Uldrich:
On the positive side, the company has received a $750,000 order from
*Phoenix Motors*, a small manufacturer of electric vehicles. Like the
Eli Lilly deal, this agreement suggests that Altair has moved beyond the
hype phase with this technology.
Phoenix is reportedly testing Altair's batteries in a fleet of electric
vehicles for a utility company. Gotcher indicated that the batteries
will begin shipping later this year, and that he expects additional
follow-on orders.
Again, investors should confirm such follow-on orders before they get
too excited. The field of battery technology is highly competitive, and
a number of very large and well-financed companies, including major
automobile manufacturers such as *Ford* (NYSE: F)
<http://quote.fool.com/uberdata.asp?symbols=F>, *General Motors* (NYSE:
GM) <http://quote.fool.com/uberdata.asp?symbols=GM>, and *Toyota* (NYSE:
TM) <http://quote.fool.com/uberdata.asp?symbols=TM>, are pursuing
related technologies. If the technology works as Altair officials claim,
giving vehicles a range of 250 miles and a recharge time of 6-8 minutes,
it should be able to pretty much sell itself."
**
It may be worthwhile to have a couple of you in the California area
attend and give us a report.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those who want to read the 1973 electric Datsun article without bidding on
it:
http://datsun1200.com/modules/nsections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=87
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
looks like he was using 4 starter type selenoids for a controller
are those things rated for that much current for long periods of time?
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:43 AM
Subject: Addendum to Datsun article on eBay
For those who want to read the 1973 electric Datsun article without
bidding on
it:
http://datsun1200.com/modules/nsections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=87
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Plus if you plug into the wrong outlet Bruce will yell at you :0
>
> Mike
>
>
The Ranger is a production model, so it can *only* take an Avcon.
Don't even know how you'd rewire it to accept anything else! I've had
smaller people than Bruce yell at me...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, a reminder that this thread is threatening to wander off the EV
topic. Please try to keep it focused on specific Chinese EV-related
products (such as Thundersky lithium batteries or Xebra NEVs or even some of
the generic DC:DC modules).
If you want to discuss general quality of Chinese labor / products perhaps
private email is a better route.
Thanks for your understanding and help in keeping the list focused.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Several of us have made Avcon adapters so we can plug into an Avcon
station should the need arise. Have you tried that? The 2 for my
friend and I are still in my in basket.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Death to All Spammers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Plus if you plug into the wrong outlet Bruce will yell at you :0
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
> The Ranger is a production model, so it can *only* take an Avcon.
> Don't even know how you'd rewire it to accept anything else! I've had
> smaller people than Bruce yell at me...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I usually use Permacoil. They are stainless and cheaper than Helicoil.
The real issue may appear to be the inserts length. 1.5 times the
diameter. 6 x 1.5 = 9mm (.354") long for a .187" thick piece of
aluminum. Bummer.
http://www.threadkits.com/perma/permacoil.html
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> G'day All
>
> Lots of discussion about Helicoils, but none about material
compatability.
>
> Are the battery boxes *always* dry? If not then putting a steel
helicoil,
> t-nut, rivet-nut etc is asking for a bigger hole from dissimilar metal
> electrolytic corrosion.
>
> Helicoils would be a poor choice, but even they should be stronger than
> tapped 3/16 aluminium. If the tapped aluminium lasted fairly well,
then a
> helicoil (properly installed) should be OK.
>
> My vote would be stainless t-nuts (following a philosophy of overkill),
> even if needed to be custom machined, provided there is enough room
to fit
> them. If t-nuts won't fit then try and get stainless rivet-nuts or
if the
> position is always dry then normal rivet-nuts (not sure what the 'real'
> name is for them).
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thamx for the plug in america info chelsea. hey don davidson i will call you
today about getting together to hand out flyers and business cards at the
theatre and I will bring my 98 solectria force to display out front. Mike young
315 331 5336
----- Original Message -----
From: Chelsea Sexton
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
The flyer is called "Why Plug In Cars", and is downloadable from Plug In
America's website: www.pluginamerica.com. We created it so that anyone can
print them off and use them locally as needed.
chelsea
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 06:43:03 -0700 (PDT)
>Fair warning: Somebody somewhere had put together a
>flyer when it showed in Ashland, OR. It discussed
>PHEVs and the Tango. Very slick, up to date.
>Hopefully it's being included as the film itself is
>being distributed!
>peace,
>
>--- gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Sure, make a simple flyer with the EEA web info and
> > (hopefully) local
> > chapter info and tell people to support homegrown
> > efforts. This will
> > result in more cars available locally. I bet a lot
> > of chapters would be
> > willing and able to convert cars for people that
> > wanted to buy the
> > parts. With enough growth, the EAA could help with
> > marketing, financing
> > and insuring.
> >
> > gary
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Don
> > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:11 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica, NY
> >
> > Go to this link:
> >
>http://mwpai.org/performingarts/performances/filmseries/#1662
> >
> > I just found out about this performance this
> > morning. It's occurring
> > later this week. Wish I were more prepared to
> > support it with EV
> > literature, etc. Any suggestions what I might do to
> > support EV's during
> > these shows? I don't have much time to prepare.
> >
> >
> > The shows are Wednesday Sept 13 & Friday September
> > 15 2 PM & 7:30 PM
> > both days
> >
> > I'm open to suggestions and any support you might
> > offer
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Don B. Davidson III
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 117 Dean St
> > Rome, NY 13440
> > 315 337 2124
> >
> >
>
>
>Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
>has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
>Learn more at:
>www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
>Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who or where is the Athol this 1973 article is talking about? It's as if I
imagined Plasma Boy in hornrim glasses:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280027887780
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, using an 18" wheel, and a 3.66 differential will definitely get you
to 70MPH, but how fast will you get there?
I'm hoping with a 120v Curtis and an L91 (or maybe a little bigger) Would do
the job. I've noticed most of the fixed ratio ev's have lots of motor and
controller. I suspect using an 8" might be possible but it's starting to
get awful big. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Gear ratio vs. horsepower
> Lawrence,
>
> As you know, I've also been researching building an EV motorcycle.
>
> Here's some of the stuff I've gleaned, from lots of reading and asking
> questions:
>
> Using a transmission is difficult because most bikes don't have a
> separate transmission. Most Harleys do, and some foreign models. Most
> of the cheap / easy to obtain rollers have an integrated transmission.
>
> A transmission isn't always the answer. For a bike, the answer I seem
> to get is "use a bigger motor, controller, and more batteries", then use
> a fixed ratio that's geared for the top speed you desire. Simply make
> sure you have a beefy enough setup so that your acceleration isn't
> poor. IOW, use more amps, and less gears. This was the whole point of
> the Zilla 2 motor setup.
>
> Horsepower remains the same regardless of gear ratio (not accounting for
> efficiency losses). HP = Torque * Speed. Gearing reduces speed and
> raise torque as the power goes from the motor to the wheel. At zero
> speed, torque is the only thing that makes you begin moving.
>
> If you consider 6000RPM to be the max for your motor, and 18" to be your
> wheel diameter and 70 MPH to be your target speed:
>
> 70MPH = 1.16 Miles Per Minute (mpm) = 6124.8 FPM
> 18" Diameter = 56.5" circumference = 4.72'
> 6124.8 FPM /4.72' = 1298 RPM @ rear wheel
> 6000RPM / 1298RPM =4.62:1 Gear ratio, or lower for 70 MPH
>
> Now, if you use a 24" rear wheel:
>
> 70MPH = 1.16 Miles Per Minute (mpm) = 6124.8 FPM
> 24" Diameter = 75.398" Circ = 6.28'
> 6124.8 / 6.28' = 975 RPM
> 6000 / 975 = 6.153:1 ratio or lower for 70MPH
>
> So, using an 18" wheel, and a 3.66 differential will definitely get you
> to 70MPH, but how fast will you get there?
>
> In the end, if you do find a suitable shaft drive for your uses, I'd be
> interested to hear which one you picked and why. Seems a large shaft
> drive touring bike (like a Gold Wing) is a good start because the GW is
> a heavy bike with a rather powerful motor, and should be well suited to
> EM torques and weights, at least compared to lighter donors.
>
> EP
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > I've been looking at a lot of motorcycles with shaft drive. I seem to
> > recall John Wayland way back in the dark ages being involved with a
shaft
> > drive motorcycle. John uses a 9 inch with a rear end in the 4 to 1
range on
> > Zombie. Otmar uses 3rd gear only in Poppy. Not sure what that is or if
> > there is reduction from the dual motor setup. The Tropica uses two 72v
> > motors in a fixed ratio. The Sparrow is also fixed ratio. It seems to
me
> > to get high speed and torque off the line to hill climb from a stop
there
> > has to be a lot of horsepower if you are going to use a 3 to 1 ratio.
If
> > you factor in weight there must be some formula to determine the hp to
get a
> > useable fixed ratio EV. Since 4.5 to 1 works on the Lectra at 48v & 750
> > pounds with an 18 inch wheel I'd think quadrupling the hp & reducing
the
> > ratio to 3 to 1 with a larger wheel would give more speed and still
allow
> > hill climbing from a stop. My plan is to use a shaft drive crusier
bike.
> > The ratio's I've seen are as low as 3.66 to 1 and as high as mid 2's to
1.
> > I'd like to use the smallest motor possible but it looks like I'd
probably
> > need an L91 at 120v to get 70mph and still climb hills from a stop. I
would
> > think heat to be an issue so the bigger the motor the better. But then
> > again it's a motorcycle. 150 pounds might be to heavy. Lawrence
Rhodes....
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Several of us have made Avcon adapters so we can plug into an Avcon
> station should the need arise. Have you tried that? The 2 for my
> friend and I are still in my in basket.
>
> Mike
I *have* to plug into an Avcon station - the rewiring I was talking
about would be to allow some *other* 240V input. The Ranger expects a
pilot signal, so just using an Avcon male wired to a 240V plug won't
get it to turn on the charger. Supposedly a 12V/1000hz square wave
(fed through a 1k ohm resistor) is sent down the pilot (little blue)
wire of the Avcon handle, but I haven't tried making a signal
generator to do this yet.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> looks like he was using 4 starter type selenoids for a controller
> are those things rated for that much current for long periods of time?
>
No, they're not, but it *was* 1973 -- they had contactors back then
but there weren't any modern EVs being produced, so he may not have
known any better. Anyone know what other technology was available in
1973 for an EV controller?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Husted wrote:
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mr. Husted, you have your ears on?
>>Yes I do but it's my wifes B'day so in a hurry to finish before she gets home 8^)
Geez, time to get your priorities straight! =)
It's not new, despite what the website says. Far from it.
>> Call them on that then, the other bigger motor looked new from the videos.
I did -- I requested a 60% discount =)
metal nut, but is in actuality a large _plastic_ nut. The black cone is
demolished, and the plastic nut is split. I'm hoping that this part is
"intentionally weak" so that a bent (or shoved in) terminal won't mess
up the motor housing.
>> Those are called molded terminal kits. They are just plastic nuts with a brass threaded core that is cast inside. BTW That broke because it had 80 Lbs.s falling 3 feet on it. Got to love the freight boys 8^)
After disassembly, it turns out this only bent a copper bus bar that
went from the terminal to the brush holder. Easily replaced or simply
straightened.
>> Remove the DE (drive) plate bolts and slide the plate and armature assy.
out Remove springs and brushes or be careful (best to remove the springs at least o
keep brushes from chipping. You can now remove the CE (brush) end plate, where you
can access both housing and CE plate. To remove the DE plate from the armature could
be from just tapping it off to having snap-rings hidden behind oil seals so send pics
if needed.
I've completely disassembled the motor, with the exception of removing
the rotor from the front plate. The DE bolts were right there in the
face. The rear housing (that has the brushes) has bolts that are inside
the brush guards. Oddly, the bolts are really hard to remove if you're
turning them the wrong way =)
I'm concerned about the pushed-in bolt -- its one that's at the brush
end, and I hope it didn't impact the comm / rotor. The bolt does not
turn freely as the others do. Should I remove it before proceeding?
>> This is a bummer, if needed you could use a regular brass bolt (like the ADC,Warp) terminals or replace it. Contact off list if you need help here.
It definitely needs replacing -- the plastic is smashed. These seem
really easy to replace -- they come right out after you unscrew the
large plastic nut, and disconnect them from the inside.
The faceplate is huge and unnecessary -- the ADCs have what appears to
be a thick AL plate. Is the faceplate part of the magnetic circuit, or
can it be replaced? I know it would have to be custom machined.
>>By all means craft away as this doesn't need to be iron, the newer GE's have Al plates on the CE.
I sent a msg to GE asking if they have AL plates that will fit. Worth a
shot, I figure.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
PS: I'll try and get a post out on the compound wound motor soon. Tough
choice, wifes birthday, list posting, wifes birthday, list posting, , Wife
wins, LMAO!
Priorities!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a P&B KUEP-11D15-12 which is a DPDT contactor rated at 150VDC and 3A per
contact. I want to use this to switch my single
ceramic heater module. I've tested the element and in the garage starting at
70*F two elements pull 3A and all four elements pull
5 amps with a household fan blowing from 6" away. I'm running 192V pack
voltage. This contactor is not precisely rated to run
this load so I'm wondering, at least until I can get a better suited relay (or
multiple relays) would it be a safer stretch of the
limits to
A.) run two elements on each pole meeting the 3A capacity of each, but at 42V
over the 150V limit
or
B.) run all four elements with both poles in series for a 300V rating but at 2A
over the rated 3A capacity?
If I get the whoa dude, whateryadoing thing I suppose I could just run only two
elements through both poles in series to meet both
the Voltage and Current ratings. Its not that cold yet so I just need to break
the chill in the morning drive to work. By the
time it starts getting dark before I get home I'll have found a better relay
for the job. Anyone know a single relay in this
style that would handle the 192V and up to 10A?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While visiting the ZAP site to see what's there about the Xebra, I found this:
http://www.zapworld.com/cars/epod.asp Does anyone know who makes this? It looks
like an electrathon, but has pedals, too.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Took a little more searching, but this looks like the source of the e-pod:
http://www.aerorider.com/pages/home/home.php?lang=en
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day All
15 minutes or so and it's over. Of course I recorded it! VHS, though...
About 10 to 12 mins of EV1/WKtEC, including crusher, shredded Hondas, a
couple of RAV/EVs and time with a RAV/EV owner with solar panels on the
house. Probably 30 to 50 seconds or so of a marketing bla-bla spin-doctor
from GM. Then John gets his boof head and sunglasses in front of the camera
with Blue Meanie, showing off the motorised battery tray. A couple of 'girl
in the street' interviews with people (one of whom admits to not knowing
about any electric cars being available, ever) after seeing Blue Meanie
(with an ICE van in the background trying to get some ICing going and John
making disparaging remarks about it). Girlies reckoning that BM is 'cool' etc.
A few minutes of John and his "Juice Bar", I think I saw Blue Meanie, White
Zombie, Baby Blue, California Poppy, but John said 5 EVs so I'll have to
watch the tape & play "spot". John rabbiting on about horsepower/torque and
two close-up-and-personal looks at Z2ks, one in WZ, the other in CalPopE.
WZ had the field weakening in place during filming.
I guess Tim? in WZ putting a helmet on. Shot of something BigICE making
noise and smoke down the strip. Seemed like about 25 seconds at the drag
strip, about 15 seconds of WZ making smoke, then eating a Mustang off the
line. About 5 seconds of California Poppy seemingly level off the line and
heading down the strip.
That was about it. Followed up by an article about city-owned bicycles in
France.
Of course I've missed a lot of details - ICEd out public solar charging,
electricity equivalent to 20c/gallon petrol, etc. SBS news had an article
about GMs latest hydrogen vehicle (immediately followed the article with a
promo for the dateline show and a comment about 'is that really going to be
the future?).
Well, I guess as a reviewer, I probably make a good tech :^)
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
