EV Digest 5875
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery Costs/Pricing
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Any Ideas
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Electric Wheelbarrow?
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery Pricing
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Marc Geller: I don't need Oil Co.'s sh-- anymore)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Randy Holmquist: EVs are good for their wallets & the planet)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(How many PVs to power your EV with sunlight?)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVLN(Hammacher Schlemmer Selling Tango EVs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re; Auburn Kodiak
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Any Ideas
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Building A Performace EV
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Any Ideas
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Any Ideas
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVLN(How many PVs to power your EV with sunlight?)
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Post Petroleum Car Show
by Michael Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Re; Auburn Kodiak
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Building A Performace EV
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Fw: Electric 914 Project for sale. for sale
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Building A Performace EV
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
oh well,
email from US battery:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: US Battery
Goodmorning...
Unfortunately due to the skyrocketing costs associated with raw materials
those programs have been suspended until further notice.
Hope you have a great weakened.
Best,
George
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Costs/Pricing
Wallace directed me to call local distribution here in fort smith
didn't see an address for a Mason on their website :o/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Costs/Pricing
Did you contact Mr. Mason and ask for the EV Hobbyist discount?
Patrick
From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: battery costs/pricing
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:37:15 -0500
well, got in contact with US battery, they have a distribution in
fortsmith
arkansas, like 5 miles away :o)
unfortunately, costs have gone up a LOT in 2 years
single price for US2200s is 70.09 each
if I buy 24 at one time, it's 67.89 each
*sighs*
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark McCurdy"
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: battery costs/pricing
I've sent an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking, thanks for the
information.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Maston"
To:
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: battery costs/pricing
U.S. Battery used to offer a discount to EV hobbyists and would ship the
order to them. Don't know if they still do. IIRC, the US2200s were about
$43 each.
Blue skies,
Patrick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark McCurdy
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: battery costs/pricing
gah, battery prices are inSANE in arkansas
just called interstate batteries here, they said their 6v 115ah
batteries
were $73 each
I think I'd rather order some and have them shipped from me
anyone got suggestions on a good place?
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
faster.
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Would these [Corvair] differentials handle the horsepower and torque
of two electric motors?
Well... even ONE big series motor can produce enough torque to break
almost anything! Feed it thousands of amps, and you'll burn rubber, do
wheelstands, or get to the other end of a drag strip very quickly!
But, the later Corvairs used the same "guts" in their transaxles as
all the other Chevy full-size cars of the period. There was a Corvair
van that used these same parts. People put V8 Corvette engines in the
back seat of Corvairs and went racing. Drag racers were pulling
wheelies with them.
Helps that the weight is very close to the pivot point, rather than in
the front of the car.
So, I'd guess it is likely to work for a car driven on the street, but
not for all-out drag racing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[ref
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/74628
]
Nothing found about Schneeveis' Electric Wheelbarrow but here are
other Electric wheel barrows available for-purchase/to-look-at:
http://www.powermoverinc.net/electric_wheelbarrow.htm
http://www.bodine-electric.com/Archives/EasyBearO.htm
Web info on the Inventor:
Robert Schneeveis
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/DoR/Marsh/Schneeveis.html
Snowhite Electric Race car
http://sloan.stanford.edu/evonline/evaosc/9303/img22.gif
Walking sea horse
http://www.howberkeleycanyoube.com/images/photo_seahorse.jpg
Thunder Thief tricycle
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/sports/1512282.html?c=y&imageID=551237&caption=Photo+by+Tom+Clynes
Silver Sofa
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/02/NoveltyEV-1.jpg/750px-NoveltyEV-1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e8/NoveltyEV-3.jpg/750px-NoveltyEV-3.jpg
Battle Bot
http://www.battlebots.com/meet_the_robots3/meet_team_profile.asp?id=354
[more]
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Well, I started using Google and calling around.
Best price so far is from Allied Battery, $157.49 ea.
So, is there any difference other than posts, between the D34 and D34M?
At 04:26 PM 9/14/2006, Paul G. wrote:
I recently purchased them from Pacific Power Battery in Everett WA
for $169 each (qty. 10.) I just called them and they told me $172.95
each (if you get a manager and tell them how many you want you will
likely get a slight price break.) That is a lot better price that
you where quoted but it is a few extra miles away.
Paul G.
On Sep 13, 2006, at 2:36 PM, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
I just priced Optima YT's (Ground 34) for the Sparrow I'm getting.
$212 ea in Qty 13.
This is from the local interstate dealer.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Marc Geller: I don't need Oil Co.'s sh-- anymore)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
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http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=a6239db278ad2de3b78251493f0025df
SF Activist Wants to Make Electric Vehicles Everyone's New, Cool
Car
New America Media, News Feature, Brian Shott, Aug 29, 2006
EDITOR'S NOTE: As gas prices rise and sea levels inch upward,
kicking the nation's oil habit is becoming a priority. Now one
group of activists wildly passionate about their electric
vehicles (EVs) is fighting to put a plug on American autos. Brian
Shott, an editor at New America Media, interviews one such
advocate, who says a tiny, ugly EV changed his outlook on energy
use and personal transit.
SAN FRANCISCO--It was his passion for automobiles more than a
growing concern for the environment that first pushed activist
Marc Geller to purchase the electric vehicle he says changed his
life.
In 1999, "I was looking for my next cool car," says Geller, a
tall, wiry man who came to the Bay Area in 1976. Keeping up his
old Citroen -- a funky French station wagon with hydraulic
suspension that Geller says rode "like traveling in a living
room" -- was simply too expensive. Plus, the car's leaking
hydraulics nagged at his conscience.
Geller's search for a desirable but cleaner car led him into a
world of electric vehicle owners wildly passionate about their
"EVs," and powerful automakers reluctantly building, barely
promoting and then reclaiming and crushing many of those same
vehicles. He's emerged as a committed EV driver and activist and
solar panel salesperson determined to get electric cars the
respect they deserve.
If former vice president and presidential candidate Al Gore's
film "An Inconvenient Truth" put global warming in the national
spotlight, the smaller but similarly well-reviewed documentary
"Who Killed the Electric Car" could help focus those concerns
around Geller's transportation agenda. Geller, who knew director
Chris Paine from battles to save EVs, has helped promote the
film.
Finding an EV to replace his old Citroen back in 1999 wasn't
easy. Geller tracked down leasing agents "hidden away in the back
of the dealers," only to be told that no cars were available.
California, through its Zero Emissions Mandate of 1990, had
required the major auto companies to produce non-polluting
vehicles. Carmakers used a variety of ways to keep those
vehicles' profiles low while obeying the requirement to put them
on the roads, often leasing EVs only as fleet cars, typically to
municipalities.
After almost two years of searching, in the spring of 2001,
Geller found Ford's Th!nk City, a car he describes as "little,
plastic, scary-small... a glorified golf cart." He leased one
because he knew it might be his only chance to get an EV.
Owning the micro-car turned out to be "fantastically
transformative," Geller says. It had no tailpipe to pollute.
Geller found he rarely needed to go beyond the car's limited
(under 50 mile) range, and when he did, friends were eager to
trade cars for the day. Then came Sept. 11 and the rush to war
with Iraq, when the relationship between U.S. oil dependency and
foreign policy was, for many people, blasted into the open.
As Geller puts it, "You don't have to kill people for
electricity."
As most environmentalists know, however, electricity only seems
clean. Author Jeff Goodell writes in his book "Big Coal"
(Houghton Mifflin, 2006), "There is perhaps no act of greater
denial in modern life than sticking a plug into an electrical
outlet...Fully sanitized of any hint of its origins, electricity
pours out of the socket almost like magic." More than half of all
U.S. electricity is produced in power plants fired by coal, a
major contributor to smog and global warming.
But Geller and other electric car advocates insist that electric
cars are still cleaner than their petroleum-powered cousins. The
electric grid, they say, gets cleaner every year due to
environmental regulation (on Aug. 17, a federal appeals court
upheld a Clean Air Act rule requiring older plants to install
modern pollution controls whenever they undergo certain
upgrades), while gas cars pollute more as they age. At night, EV
advocates say, utilities' excess power could charge millions of
EVs. Plus, wind and solar power could completely clean up the
grid.
According to Sherry Boschert, author of the forthcoming "Plug-In
Hybrids: The Cars That Will Recharge America" (New Society
Publishers, fall 2006), "well to wheel" studies -- analyses that
take into account emissions from both the vehicle and its power
sources -- show that electric vehicles could reduce CO2 emissions
anywhere from 11 to 100 percent. Analyses vary on whether
all-electric vehicles would reduce or increase the air pollution
that causes smog and acid rain.
Geller says his tiny Th!nk City made him contemplate all these
connections. Today, two large solar panels sit atop the Victorian
he owns with several other people near San Francisco's
Haight-Ashbury district. Geller estimates that solar power
generates 75 to 80 percent of his household's total power usage,
including his car (now an electric Toyota RAV4).
"Literally nothing is more disempowering to the oil companies
than saying, 'I don't need your sh-- anymore,'" Geller says.
In fact, all the automakers wanted to get their EVs off the road
as soon as possible. In 2002, just months after Geller finally
found the Th!nk City, Ford canceled its electric division, took
back the cars and shipped them to Norway to be crushed. Ford said
there was little demand for the cars and didn't want any
liability after their leases ended. Activists claimed Ford and
the other major automakers never promoted the cars and sprung at
the chance to get them off the roads after a court injunction
delayed tough zero-emissions standards.
Geller fought back. First he convinced the San Francisco activist
group Global Exchange to go beyond its call for greater fuel
efficiency and get behind an effort to save Ford's EV.
Eventually, San Francisco-based Rainforest Action Network and
Greenpeace in Europe got involved. In September 2004, Greenpeace
took over the roof of the Ford plant in Oslo that made the Th!nk
City. Ford gave in, and the remaining vehicles were saved.
Owners of Toyota's RAV4 EV, GM's EV-1 and Ford's Ranger EV and
Th!nk City soon joined forces and created dontcrush.com. Geller
and Boschert also formed Plug In America, which pushes the
automakers to offer EVs and make a gas-electric car with greater
electric capability, a "plug-in hybrid."
It's a movement, Geller says excitedly, that could spread like a
virus. "I see how hungry people are to do this. All different
kinds of people." Plug In America's membership includes ex-CIA
chief James Woolsey.
Conspicuously absent from the movement, Geller says, are the
large environmental organizations, which have been slow to get
behind EVs. Because of this failure, Geller says, Americans want
cleaner power but don't know their options.
"Fundamentally, we're more concerned with improving fuel
economy," says Brendan Bell, Associate Washington Representative
in the Sierra Club's Global Warming Program. EVs in California
make sense, Bell says, because the electricity grid is relatively
clean. "The problem is in Ohio and Missouri, for example, where
the grid is incredibly dirty."
But to Geller, reducing the nation's oil dependency, combined
with electricity's green potential, more than tip the scales
toward EVs.
The EV activists' latest battle? Saving the Nissan Hypermini.
Employees of Pasadena Water and Power, the city utility, so loved
their 11 Hyperminis that on August 8 they blocked them from being
taken back by the Japanese auto manufacturer. "This is with no
word from us," Geller says. "It had just been kind of bubbling."
Driving his Toyota Rav-4 EV around the block -- fast -- to show
this reporter the fun and ease of electric drive, Geller sums up
his love for EVs.
"Every mile is no petroleum. Every mile is no pollution where
you're driving. Every mile is no money to Dick Cheney's
retirement fund."
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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EVLN(Randy Holmquist: EVs are good for their wallets & the planet)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
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http://web.bcnewsgroup.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=117&cat=23&id=722973&more=
Charging Ahead
Kimberly Kerns and her zero-emission electric vehicle
By ANDREW MACLEOD Sep 06 2006
[Image
http://web.bcnewsgroup.com/portals/uploads/mondaymag/.DIR288/MINI_kimberlykerns2_060906.jpg
]
Why electric vehicles are here to stay
After six years of driving an electric vehicle, University of
Victoria psychology professor Kimberly Kerns confesses some
surprise her example hasn't caught on. "I can't say it's really
spread to my neighbours yet," she says. "I don't understand why
more people wouldn't be interested."
With the release of the documentaryWho Killed the Electric Car?
(see review, page 25), many more people may be thinking about
making the switch. Chris Paine, the movie's director, chronicles
General Motors' production of the EV1, its attempts to market
them, and the company's subsequent efforts to get them off the
road and ultimately crush them-against the protests of
enthusiastic drivers. But despite the film's title, and its
footage of a mock funeral featuring the likes of actor and former
EV1 driver Ed Begley Jr., electric vehicles are far from dead-and
as oil and gas become more scarce, they start to make even more
sense.
"It's been blissful not to know what the price of gas is," says
Kerns, with a laugh. She commutes on workdays between Sooke and
UVic in a 1987 Chevrolet S-10 pick-up truck that she simply plugs
in to charge. Before getting the truck, Kerns drove an electric
GEO Metro for three years, but she traded it in because the truck
could carry larger batteries and therefore go further on a
charge, which was necessary for her to get back and forth between
home and work. (While the Metro would go maybe 70 kilometres on a
charge, the truck will go up to 100 kilometres.)
To Kerns, the advantages over a gas-powered vehicle are obvious.
For one thing, her truck isn't polluting the air or contributing
greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and driving global heating.
"That's important to me," she says. She doesn't see herself as an
activist or a radical environmentalist, she says, but she is
environmentally conscious and tries to do what she can to live
lightly. "I just thought, 'Stop bitching about it and do
something.'" Kerns feels we should really be saving fossil fuels
for things that are difficult, if not impossible, to run on
batteries-like powering airplanes.
On a more immediate level, she says the truck is a pleasure to
drive. It's quiet and it stays much cleaner under the hood than
any gas vehicle would. Also, she says, the maintenance is easy.
It doesn't require any tune ups or oil changes; all she does is
water the batteries once a month, change the brake pads and
rotate the tires. She should expect to replace the $3,000
batteries once every three years, but hasn't actually had to do
that yet. "What's sad to me is there aren't more people [driving
electrics]," she says. "Maybe some day people will start to catch
on."
Randy Holmquist, who sold Kerns both the Chevy and the GEO, runs
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd. in Errington, B.C., just up the
highway from Parksville. Business is up, he says, thanks in part
to Who Killed the Electric Car?. The other big factor is the
release of the Al Gore documentaryAn Inconvenient Truth earlier
in the summer. (Incidentally, while in his film Gore bemoans the
lack of advancement since the 1970s on fuel efficiency standards,
Paine's documentary lays part of the blame for that failure on
Gore himself. In a revealing segment on Gore's eight years in
office as vice-president to president Bill Clinton, the pair were
shown to be sympathetic to the cause, but ultimately capitulated
in a deal with the major auto makers.)
Holmquist says in any given year, he used to sell just one or two
conversion kits-allowing people to convert a gas-powered vehicle
into one run on batteries-but now he's selling a couple a month.
"It's had a huge impact for us," he says.
Still, there are challenges. Most of the people who think driving
an electric vehicle would be cool can't afford it, he says. "Once
you can afford it, [you think] 'Screw the environment, I'm
driving my Escalade.'"
To convert a car or truck costs over $18,500, he says-and that's
once you already have the vehicle. The conversion kit costs about
$12,000, the batteries are $3,000 and Holmquist can install it
all for $3,500.
He's choosy about what models of vehicle he converts, he says,
but over 16 years he's done Honda Civics, Toyota Echos, Chevrolet
S-10 pick-ups, Dodge Neons and a Citroen. In total, he says, he's
converted around 25 vehicles to be used on the road. In Victoria,
Royal Roads University has a Nissan pick-up he did around 10
years ago, and Alpine Disposal has a van.
He's also done some 45 three-tonne trucks for airports around the
world. And he's making utility trucks from the ground up that are
selling well in the United States, but aren't yet legal to be
driven on the road here, due to what he calls "slow, bureaucratic
bullshit."
The biggest barrier to more people driving electric vehicles is
the limit to how far you can drive without charging them. The
range depends on a variety of factors, including the weight of
the vehicle, the number of batteries it carries and the type of
batteries. A company called Tesla Motors makes a high-end
electric car that gets around 400 kilometres on a charge. It uses
lithium batteries, which cost around $20,000, and the car sells
for around $100,000. Holmquist's more affordable pick-ups get
about 100 kilometres on a charge.
The charge time depends on how much power you have. Southwest
Airlines has enough electricity to charge its trucks in 20
minutes; Holmquist charges his own car in about three hours using
a 40 amp outlet like you'd normally plug a clothes dryer into. On
a normal household outlet, he says it would take up to eight
hours. All in all, it's fine if you plan for it, but electric
vehicles are not quite at the convenience point of pulling into a
gas station and being ready to go within a few minutes.
"People don't want to make any trade-offs, ever," says psychology
professor Kerns. Driving the electric truck means she can't just
go to work for the day then spontaneously drive to Nanaimo on the
way home; the battery simply wouldn't take her there without
being recharged. For many people, she says, driving a car is
about freedom and a lack of restrictions. "That little degree of
freedom, not having to think about things all the time, does
impact behaviour."
The president of the B.C. Sustainable Energy Association, Guy
Dauncey, is adamant that the electric car is not dead. "It will
absolutely come back," says Dauncey. "It's too good a technology
not to survive." In fact, he'd like a plug-in Smart Car himself
that he could charge from a solar panel on the roof of his house,
he says. Right now he and his wife, who runs a plant nursery from
their home near Camosun College's Interurban campus, share a
Mazda van. "My second vehicle's a bicycle."
While bikes are the ultimate in energy efficiency, he says,
getting more people in electric vehicles makes a lot of sense. In
fact, he figures the entire B.C. vehicle fleet, given some
improvements in efficiency, could be run on 8,000 gigawatt hours
of power a year. To put that in perspective, it's about 15
percent of the electricity we currently use. However, it's a
fraction of the energy we could be drawing from green sources
like the wind, the sun and the tide.
"This is doable," Dauncey says. Electric vehicles are more
practical to use on a broad scale than are other alternatives
like hydrogen and biofuels. Hydrogen takes a lot of energy to
make, and there's a limited amount of waste fats available to
make biodiesel. If you grow grains to make fuels like ethanol,
you're competing with food, he says. Electricity is much easier
to capture and distribute. "We already have an electric network
for distributing electricity all over the place."
In B.C. in particular, with all our hydro power, our electricity
comes from relatively clean sources. Even in the United States,
where 55 percent of electricity comes from burning coal, electric
cars are about 50 percent cleaner than gas vehicles, says Chelsea
Sexton who used to work for General Motors promoting its electric
vehicles.
Several sources point out the future of electric vehicles may
actually rest on the hybrids that use both battery and gas power.
Current hybrids, like Toyota's popular Prius, now charge their
batteries by recapturing energy while they drive. Starting in
2008, they'll come with a plug so drivers can charge the
batteries straight from an electrical outlet.
"I think people have to be eased into this stuff," concludes
electric vehicle maker Holmquist. "You sort of wean people into
that plugging in thing." Once you do, he predicts, people will
see just how little gas they have to use. It will be good for
their wallets and the planet, they'll tell their friends and
neighbours, and it will catch on. And maybe then we won't have to
worry about who killed one particular version of the electric
car. M
© Copyright 2006 Monday Magazine
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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EVLN(How many PVs to power your EV with sunlight?)
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http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/14/photovoltaic-powered-cars/
Photovoltaic Powered Cars
How large would your photovoltaic array have to be, if you wanted
to power your electric vehicle with sunlight?
The first step is to calculate the mileage of your electric car.
With a gasoline car, mileage is measured in miles per gallon.
With an electric car, mileage is measured in miles per
kilowatt-hour. If you read our recent post Electric Car Cost Per
Mile
[
http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/
]
you will see we calculate a light-duty electric car can probably
achieve about 2.9 miles per kilowatt hour. A more in-depth set of
calculations can be found in our feature The Battery Powered
Car. [ http://www.ecoworld.com/Home/articles2.cfm?TID=373 ]
The charge/discharge efficiencies of batteries are high, usually
over 90%, and the efficiency of the on-board vehicle batteries is
taken into account in our calculations of 2.9 miles per kilowatt
hour. But if your car is being powered by photovoltaics,
presumably you will be off driving to work and back during most
days when you want to collect electric power. Therefore you will
need a battery system at home to store the photovoltaic
electricity before discharging your home batteries in order to
charge your car batteries at night. This will add 10% to the size
of the photovoltaic array required.
Using a 1,000 square foot photovoltaic array as an example,
assume 10 watts per square foot of array in full sun. Assume 8
hours of full sun or full sun equivalent (two hours of rising or
setting sun, or sun obscured by clouds equals one hour of full
sun) per day. This means that 1,000 square feet x 10 watts per
square foot x 8 hours = 80 kilowatt hours of stored electricity
per day. If you multiply by 2.9 miles per kilowatt hour and
deduct 10% for the charge/discharge efficiency of your home
storage system, then you have a 209 mile range.
This is a most encouraging fact. The average commute is under 100
miles, meaning a homeowner owning a battery powered car would
only need 500 square feet of photovoltaic panels to drive to work
for free. At ten dollars per watt installed, this means that for
$50,000, you would never buy gas again.
Clearly anyone owning a battery powered car is better off today
buying power from the grid at night-time rates of, say, 10 cents
or less per kilowatt hour. But photovoltaics are going to get
cheaper. When they do, there are no practical engineering
obstacles to seeing cars increasingly powered by the sun.
Copyright 1993 through 2006 EcoWorld Inc., All Rights Reserved
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Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Hammacher Schlemmer Selling Tango EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.luxist.com/2006/09/01/hammacher-schlemmer-selling-six-figure-electric-car/
Hammacher Schlemmer Selling Six-Figure Electric Car
Posted Sep 1st 2006 12:03PM by Deidre Woollard
Filed under: Wheels
One common complaint about electric cars is that they are a bit
pokey. You won't find that problem with the new electric car
being sold by Hammacher Schlemmer. It does the zero-to-60 hop in
four seconds and zips up to a top speed of 120 mph in one gear.
The car has two electric motors that work together The car is
just 39" wide and the driver and passenger sit in tandem front
and back seats. It can park perpendicular to a curb without the
need for a full space. The zippy little machine operates from a
set of lead-acid batteries that can recharge using any service up
to 50 amps, providing enough power for a range of 40-80 miles. It
sells for $108,000, a hell of a price for something smaller than
a Smart Car.
===
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C9363/
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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I also need a copy of the C-600 manual or how to hook it up.
I have one of the first they produced. It is a free standing
air-cooled model. Too bad they are not made anymore, the thing has
been bullet-proof (knock on dashboard).
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
You are still missing the point. You would hook one motor up to each
"axle" side of the IRS differential and take the output /from/ the prop
shaft.
In essence you would be running it backwards, instead of splitting the
prop shaft input between two axle outputs, you would be taking input on
the axles and combining it on the prop shaft.
... which results the same as connecting motors directly to the wheels
in a first place without all that trouble, right?
Don,
What will be easier, simpler and better for traction is to use approach
PRO-ev took - use 4x4 platform to begin with, and drive front and
rear drive shafts with individual motors, directly (no gearing)
if wanted.
Use high voltage winding option for 5135 motor (WS28) and you can
peak out ~200kW or 270hp (at 750VDC) from each motor. Is 540 *electric*
hp enough for you? I think you have bigger problem with battery for this
demand, not the drive. These 5135 are not much bigger than one in my
ACRX.
Summation units I supplied link to is an example how it is done in
industry - large trucks and bus applications. It's too heavy and big
for a car. The whole bus axle perhaps is as big as the car itself.
Victor
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Sorry Rod,
I must have fallen asleep for a second in this thread. What are you
referring to here?
-Mike
On 9/9/06, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Maybe I am missing something here but why would someone pay $664,000 base
price for a dog slow EV that did barely over 100 mph.
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Would this be done with a chain type drive? If so I could
> mount the motors where the ICE was with a chain drive to
> each motor. The question then would be is chain the best
> way to do this.
While you can certainly get chain with sufficient strength, I think you
will find that it must be run in an oil bath to survive, especially at
the speeds it would be running.
A better option is an enclosed toothed belt drive. Here are two very
clean examples of such setups:
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/293> (Otmar's 914 with dual ADC 8's)
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/152> (John Bisby's Mitsubishi ute with
dual Kostovs)
Cheers,
Roger.
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I still like one motor for each CV shaft .. no diferential .. belt
or chain connected with the correct ratio.
would have to be mounted to the IRS suspension on each side
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I am trying for 8 miles per day
BUT
need to get home for enough charge to have a safe voltage level
thru the night
http://tinyurl.com/o2jqk
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> EVLN(How many PVs to power your EV with sunlight?)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/14/photovoltaic-powered-cars/
> Photovoltaic Powered Cars
>
> How large would your photovoltaic array have to be, if you wanted
> to power your electric vehicle with sunlight?
>
> The first step is to calculate the mileage of your electric car.
> With a gasoline car, mileage is measured in miles per gallon.
> With an electric car, mileage is measured in miles per
> kilowatt-hour. If you read our recent post "Electric Car Cost Per
> Mile"
> [
> http://www.ecoworld.com/blog/2006/08/04/electric-car-cost-per-mile/
> ]
> you will see we calculate a light-duty electric car can probably
> achieve about 2.9 miles per kilowatt hour. A more in-depth set of
> calculations can be found in our feature "The Battery Powered
> Car." [ http://www.ecoworld.com/Home/articles2.cfm?TID=373 ]
>
> The charge/discharge efficiencies of batteries are high, usually
> over 90%, and the efficiency of the on-board vehicle batteries is
> taken into account in our calculations of 2.9 miles per kilowatt
> hour. But if your car is being powered by photovoltaics,
> presumably you will be off driving to work and back during most
> days when you want to collect electric power. Therefore you will
> need a battery system at home to store the photovoltaic
> electricity before discharging your home batteries in order to
> charge your car batteries at night. This will add 10% to the size
> of the photovoltaic array required.
>
> Using a 1,000 square foot photovoltaic array as an example,
> assume 10 watts per square foot of array in full sun. Assume 8
> hours of full sun or full sun equivalent (two hours of rising or
> setting sun, or sun obscured by clouds equals one hour of full
> sun) per day. This means that 1,000 square feet x 10 watts per
> square foot x 8 hours = 80 kilowatt hours of stored electricity
> per day. If you multiply by 2.9 miles per kilowatt hour and
> deduct 10% for the charge/discharge efficiency of your home
> storage system, then you have a 209 mile range.
>
> This is a most encouraging fact. The average commute is under 100
> miles, meaning a homeowner owning a battery powered car would
> only need 500 square feet of photovoltaic panels to drive to work
> for free. At ten dollars per watt installed, this means that for
> $50,000, you would never buy gas again.
>
> Clearly anyone owning a battery powered car is better off today
> buying power from the grid at night-time rates of, say, 10 cents
> or less per kilowatt hour. But photovoltaics are going to get
> cheaper. When they do, there are no practical engineering
> obstacles to seeing cars increasingly powered by the sun.
>
> Copyright 1993 through 2006 EcoWorld Inc., All Rights Reserved
> -
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
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Dear Electric Vehicle Proponents:
I am writing to solicit your help in our efforts to educate our
community on the potential for electric vehicles. A group I am
associated with called APPLE (Alliance for a Post Petroleum Local
Economy) has planned a day of events dedicated to the future of personal
transportation. It will be held in Grass Valley, CA on November 19, 2006.
The day will feature a Post Petroleum Car Show, workshops and
presentations on the topics of electric, biofuel and fuel cell vehicles.
We are currently looking for manufacturers of cars, cycles, scooters
bikes, or any other mode of transportation who may want to participate
in the car show. We are also interested in including any garage
inventors and/or hobbyists who want to show their wares. Participation
and attendance to the car show is free. There will be a charge for the
workshops and evening events.
I am hoping that you might be able to help us in two ways: 1) finding
people or companies to participate in the Post Petroleum Car Show, and
2) helping us publicize the event.
APPLE is a grassroots, non-profit organization dedicated to supporting
social entrepreneurs in the effort to move our community toward a
sustainable future. You may find out more about APPLE at www.apple-nc.org.
Please see the press release below for details and contact information
about the event.
Best regards,
Mike Thompson
"Whatcha Gonna Drive?"
... to a sustainable world when fossil fuels are no longer an affordable
option: Biodiesel, Electric, Fuel Cell or Hybrids?
On Sunday, November 19, at the Center for the Arts on Main St. in Grass
Valley, experts, hobbyists, and the simply curious will gather to try to
answer these questions: What will replace fossil fuels as we move toward
the post-petroleum era? What are the pros and cons of biofuels, fuel
cell technology, and electric vehicles? Are hybrids the best way to go?
What should your next car be? It seems everyone is talking about this
lately.
APPLE of Nevada County (Alliance for a Post-Petroleum Local Economy) is
hosting a two-part event. First, the free "Post-Petroleum Car Show"
(2:00 - 6:00 pm) will fill the parking lot directly behind The Center
for the Arts (concurrent with demos, workshops, and films indoors). We
expect some high-mileage cars, a variety of electric cars and bikes, and
some more exotic inventions.
Then, at 6:30 pm, in the main auditorium, APPLE will present "Fueling
the Future." Two dynamic speakers, fuel cell researcher Glenn Rambach
and Executive Director of the Biodiesel Council of California, Kimber
Holmes, will give illustrated presentations showing why we are on the
brink of a massive change in personal transportation and the
technologies available to help us make the transition. The evening will
conclude with a panel discussion to field comments and questions from
those in attendance.
There will also be information tables on APPLE projects and other local
transportation-related groups, along with food, festivities, and fun!
More details on the program and a vehicle list will be posted at
www.apple-nc.org as the event draws closer. APPLE is inviting
participation from car enthusiasts, alternative vehicle (or fuel)
researchers/inventors, and especially those who have vehicles
appropriate for the "Post-Petroleum Car Show." To find out more, call
(530) 274-3435 or e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I also need a copy of the C-600 manual or how to hook it up.
I have one of the first they produced. It is a free standing
air-cooled model. Too bad they are not made anymore, the thing has
been bullet-proof (knock on dashboard).
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
Manual faxed o me from another helpful list member.
http://cafeelectric.com/temp/AuburnScientificC600.pdf
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
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He is referring to the Venturi Fetish
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: September 15, 2006 12:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
Sorry Rod,
I must have fallen asleep for a second in this thread. What are you
referring to here?
-Mike
On 9/9/06, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe I am missing something here but why would someone pay $664,000
> base price for a dog slow EV that did barely over 100 mph.
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I'm forwarding this for Mike. He is a top flight mechanic & EV expert.
This project might be of interest to an EV wannabee. I have CCed Mike
[EMAIL PROTECTED] This is his email please contact him. DO NOT COTACT
LAWRENCE RHODES concerning the Porsche. The Porxche is in the San
Francisco bay area. LR.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Mercado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: Electric 914 for sale
> I have a customer who recently informed me he wishes to sell his Electric
914 project. I just finnished fabricating the mounting frame for the AC
propulsion 200hp motor. The drivetrain mounts to the OE positions, without
chassis modifications & could be switched to a cleaner shell or sandrail
frame if desired. All other assembly & fabrication remains to be done.
>
> Mike Mercado
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At $664,000? Isn't that the price for six Fetishes (Feti?)?
-Mike
On 9/15/06, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
He is referring to the Venturi Fetish
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: September 15, 2006 12:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Building A Performace EV
Sorry Rod,
I must have fallen asleep for a second in this thread. What are you
referring to here?
-Mike
On 9/9/06, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe I am missing something here but why would someone pay $664,000
> base price for a dog slow EV that did barely over 100 mph.
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