EV Digest 5878
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 'Ultracapacitor-Battery' blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: 'Ultracapacitor-Battery' blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 'Ultracapacitor-Battery' blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Opel Astra electric steering pump
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Anthony
by "EVAmerica" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) HV Wire and Cable was Re: Ultracapacitor-Battery
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 'Ultracapacitor-Battery' blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Any Ideas
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: bittorrent of Dateline EV Episode
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) PFC20 #92 acting strange
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: bittorrent of Dateline EV Episode
by "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion - GeoPhysics
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Another One! Update
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery - high
voltage semi's
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Newbie looking for good reading to get up to speed
by ZillaVIlla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Newbie looking for good reading to get up to speed
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion Battery
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Was Re: Another One! Update, now DCP Raptor Throttle
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Newbie looking for good reading to get up to speed
by "Kip C Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The sky
> current was only a few microamps, but it would (eventually) charge the
> capacitors to thousands of volts!
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Hmmm. Is this that free energy we've been hearing about???? Lawrence
Rhodes.........
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As free as the sun. Hams with very large towers have problems keeping the
static discharged from their twowers. You can get
quite a jolt from an isolated "tall" tower. Why not bleed it off into a
capacitor bank?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:51 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: "Ultracapacitor-Battery" blows away Current Lithium-Ion
> Battery
>
>
> The sky
> > current was only a few microamps, but it would (eventually) charge the
> > capacitors to thousands of volts!
> > --
> > Ring the bells that still can ring
> > Forget the perfect offering
> > There is a crack in everything
> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> Hmmm. Is this that free energy we've been hearing about???? Lawrence
> Rhodes.........
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Kinda sounding like an AC drive would be a good idea. I mean this makes
> a ton of sense because if you actually have a motor designed for
> 1000V-3500V, then the current is quite low. What was 100 amps @ 100V is
> only 10 amps @ 1000v. Only 2.86 amps @ 3500V. So we don't need
> anything like 2/0 cables anymore.
However, the insulation around those wires will be almost as thick as our
usual welding cables ;) Based on my experiences, I guess I wouldn't want
to have a thousand or more Volts flowing around my car. The slightest
piercing may result in a phantastic light show ;) And - 1000 V or more are
a sure way to end an amateurs EV builders career at the first time he/she
doesn't pay attention.
Michaela
e anymore. Heck, 8 ga can drive this
> with only marginal losses. You know, originally I said the high
> voltage IGBTs would cost a lot but now I'm realizing with the greatly
> reduced currents required this might not be so expensive.
>
> How well do AC drives work with a wide range of voltages? When the
> voltage is high, I assume this means the drive will need to give a very
> short "on" time during its positive and negative swings. How bad does
> this affect a single or 3-phase A/C drive?
>
> Danny
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
>> Danny wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed making the controller would be quite tricky. There are a
>>> limited
>>> number of ways to convert 3500V to say 100v with efficiency.
>>
>>
>> What's the highest voltage AC motor you have ever seen? What are the
>> upper voltage limits to AC motors?
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, Sep 16, 2006 at 03:19:15AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Kinda sounding like an AC drive would be a good idea. I mean this makes
> > a ton of sense because if you actually have a motor designed for
> > 1000V-3500V, then the current is quite low. What was 100 amps @ 100V is
> > only 10 amps @ 1000v. Only 2.86 amps @ 3500V. So we don't need
> > anything like 2/0 cables anymore.
>
> However, the insulation around those wires will be almost as thick as our
> usual welding cables ;)
The insulation for the CRT lead on a flyback transformer is not that big, and
they run at ~20kV.
The current is quite small, but you need thicker insulation for higher voltage,
and not higher current, right?
> Based on my experiences, I guess I wouldn't want
> to have a thousand or more Volts flowing around my car. The slightest
> piercing may result in a phantastic light show ;)
HID lights run at ~15kV as well right?
> And - 1000 V or more are a sure way to end an amateurs EV builders career
> at the first time he/she doesn't pay attention.
High voltage tends to cause muscle spasms, so make sure you have a friend
and a defibrillator handy.
And follow normal high voltage safety precautions that apply to any EV.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Indeed it's not hard to meet the electrical requirements of insulating
3500V. However, one must consider the ramifications of mechanical
damage breeching the insulation, or simply getting wet. Flybacks and
ignition coils are very low current. If they end up shorted to ground
no big deal. 3500VDC with nearly unlimited current capabilities will
"freakin explode", in layman's terms.
HID actually only uses a very high voltage (15kv or so) to start the
tube, it's a low current pulse. The voltage is much lower to keep it
running.
I'm still wondering what happens if such a pack has a cap failure. I
calculated that pack stored the mechanical equivalent of 4-5 gal of gas
run through an engine. Wow, like the energy of a whole car crashing
into a brick wall at 40 mph several hundred times over, all in one
little cap. I don't see how that wouldn't explode and with high speed
ballistics that would likely rupture adjacent caps and might be able to
penetrate a steel case and/or firewall.
Danny
Nick Austin wrote:
The insulation for the CRT lead on a flyback transformer is not that big, and
they run at ~20kV.
The current is quite small, but you need thicker insulation for higher voltage,
and not higher current, right?
Based on my experiences, I guess I wouldn't want
to have a thousand or more Volts flowing around my car. The slightest
piercing may result in a phantastic light show ;)
HID lights run at ~15kV as well right?
And - 1000 V or more are a sure way to end an amateurs EV builders career
at the first time he/she doesn't pay attention.
High voltage tends to cause muscle spasms, so make sure you have a friend
and a defibrillator handy.
And follow normal high voltage safety precautions that apply to any EV.
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On PSA and renault OEM EV electrical steering pump is ON all the time.
you should ask to an opel mechanics and look at the Haynes opel manual to
see how it work.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: Opel Astra electric steering pump
> Osmo, if you can email me a hi-res copy, I will see what I can make of it.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Osmo S.
> Sent: September 15, 2006 12:38 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Opel Astra electric steering pump
>
> Hello all,
>
> I got an electric steering pump for my Peugeot 206 conversion (300 V
Siemens
> AC system). The pump is from Opel (Vauxhall in UK I believe) Astra 2003.
>
> With my limited understanding of electronics it´s hard to figure out how
> should I connect the electric pump. I put the pictures of the pump and the
> wiring diagram I got from Opel-dealer up on
>
> http://www.havina.fi
>
> hoping someone with more expertise could figure out how the pump was
> originally working. I´m sure the pump wasn´t on all the time, but only
when
> needed, sensing possibly both the steering column movements and rpm?
>
> The two bigger wires are obviously the ones that power the pump, and those
> three smaller ones are for controlling the speed or for diagnostics? I
think
> I should try to get all the rest of the components from Astra also. So,
what
> are they? Is the control unit installed into the pump?
>
> All comments appreciated,
>
> Osmo Sarin
>
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Check out Supercapacitors in the many sites, some companies are testing
lower voltage EVs with these capacitors which may be larger than the size of
batteries.
The insulation rating of wires are as follows:
0-300 volt rating is insulated with a layer of PVC that may be 0.05 thick
for chassis work, a additional nylon jacket for conduit and you can get
thicker insulation 0.200 + for non-jacket install in wireways.
301-600 volt rating insulation ranges from 0.01 to 0.03 with or without a
nylon jacket.
0 to 600 voltage is rating a LOW VOLTAGE
601-5000 voltage is rated at MEDIUM VOLTAGE and is insulated with .02 to .04
PVC insulation with or without a nylon jacket. This cable does not require
a shield. If a shield is install, than it must be insulated and have bleeder
wires install as in the cables that are rated above 5001 volts.
5001 and above is rated at HIGH VOLTAGE and has multi-layer insulation that
looks something like co-axle cable. The inside layer around the conductor
is glass hard and may be from 0.25 to 0.30 thick. This is cover with a
metal shield which is layer with bare wires, call bleeder wires to bleed off
the current that leaks through the first layer.
The bleeders wires are cover with another layer of metal shield, cover with
a thin layer of PVC. This this then cover with a thick layer of PVC which
may be from .03 or more and finally another heavy metal shield which may be
aluminum or copper solid wire that is spiral around the jacket which
provides additional shield and mechanical protection.
We can only bend these 5001V or more rated wire at not less than 8 inch
radius!!
The enamel cover wiring that is use for motors or even high voltage
transformers, need only to be insulated to as low as 10 volts between each
windings.
There is special motor and transformer wires that are spiral 1/2 wrap with
silicon tape that can take voltages up to 5k.
Example: If you have coil or transformer, where the wire is not random
wrap, but is layer exactly, having 100 coils per roll, then 7200 volts /100
= 7.2 volts between each wire.
You then terminate the ends with the correct spacing with a internal chassis
cable that is rated for 9000 volts that may be a single wire in a insulation
jacket that is 0.75 inch thick.
To terminal high voltage wiring above 600 volts, you just don't cut off the
wire square and connect the wire to a terminal strip.
You must step each layer at a precise length for the voltage you are working
at. Then you pencil or taper each insulation layer as to give a longer
distance between each layer.
Then there are special terminal connections that not only connects the wire,
but must isolated each layer and also connects each conductive layer. These
terminal connection units can be up to 6 inches in diameter and 20 inches
long.
If you working with high voltage, it is a requirement that you have all the
safety equipment that must be tested every 3 months and tested every time
you used it.
It is another requirement that you have a qualified four person team when
working on high voltage.
Roland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, not as much a problem with insulation as you might think.
Televisions of 50 years ago had voltages over 10,000 on the picture tube,
and the mid 70's color tvs went over 25,000 volts. I still have a neon sign
transformer from the 60's that puts out over 30,000 volts. (You youngsters
raised on solid state stuff should find an old b/w tv with the flyback coil
and 1B3 rectifier tube - high voltage, very low current - and study the old
tech.) Even the spark plug wires on ICE's carry 20,000+ volts. But you
will likely see the cables run inside a conduit for protection.
Dave
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 'Ultracapacitor-Battery' blows away Current Lithium-Ion
Battery
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 03:19:15 -0500 (CDT)
> Kinda sounding like an AC drive would be a good idea. I mean this makes
> a ton of sense because if you actually have a motor designed for
> 1000V-3500V, then the current is quite low. What was 100 amps @ 100V is
> only 10 amps @ 1000v. Only 2.86 amps @ 3500V. So we don't need
> anything like 2/0 cables anymore.
However, the insulation around those wires will be almost as thick as our
usual welding cables ;) Based on my experiences, I guess I wouldn't want
to have a thousand or more Volts flowing around my car. The slightest
piercing may result in a phantastic light show ;) And - 1000 V or more are
a sure way to end an amateurs EV builders career at the first time he/she
doesn't pay attention.
Michaela
e anymore. Heck, 8 ga can drive this
> with only marginal losses. You know, originally I said the high
> voltage IGBTs would cost a lot but now I'm realizing with the greatly
> reduced currents required this might not be so expensive.
>
> How well do AC drives work with a wide range of voltages? When the
> voltage is high, I assume this means the drive will need to give a very
> short "on" time during its positive and negative swings. How bad does
> this affect a single or 3-phase A/C drive?
>
> Danny
>
> Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
>> Danny wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed making the controller would be quite tricky. There are a
>>> limited
>>> number of ways to convert 3500V to say 100v with efficiency.
>>
>>
>> What's the highest voltage AC motor you have ever seen? What are the
>> upper voltage limits to AC motors?
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, all,
The main problem with connecting an electric motor to each wheel is finding
the space to put two motors end-to-end and still have room for CV shafts.
One way would be to connect the motor directly to the wheel hub and use it
as part of a swing-arm suspension. Some disadvantages of mounting the
motors this way are the old problems of unsuspended weight, vibration and
having the motor placed in a less than desirable environment. The
swing-arm, in itself, is not the best suspension system for performance.
The most practical way, in my estimation, would be to design and build two
pancake motors, possibly 20 inches in diameter, and 6 to 8 inches long.
They could then be mounted back-to-back to the chassis of the vehicle and
the designer could use custom suspension arms and half shafts (not
impossible, but difficult).
Another system would be to place two motors parallel with each other, one
forward and one aft of the axle center line. By placing the motors in the
proper relationship with each other across the width of the vehicle, an
off-the-shelf suspension system could be used.
In any case, the motors would have to be designed for optimum operation at
a lower rpm because there would no longer be a reduction, which is normally
achieved in a direct drive vehicle by the differential.
- Father Time
> [Original Message]
> From: jmygann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Dave <[email protected]>
> Date: 9/15/2006 12:41:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Any Ideas
>
> I still like one motor for each CV shaft .. no diferential .. belt
> or chain connected with the correct ratio.
>
> would have to be mounted to the IRS suspension on each side
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> ALL BitTorrent client tools will seed with your downloaded files as
long
> as you leave the file in the directory you originally downloaded it
to.
> Seeding is a fundamental part of every BT client. In fact the tracker
> will slow down your downloads if you don't keep stuff in your in/out
> directory that other people want to download.
>
I downloaded microTorrent just for this, and could only get sound out.
What program plays them correctly? I'd rather watch it on YouTube - is
there a reason this won't work - too long or legal issue?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
More information
OK, it appears that only when I have redlighted( pulled the voltage down
enough to light some red leds on the regs) does this show itself. the
car has been plugged in for 12 hours and it is not charged. I went out 4
times throught the night and every time it was at zero amps until i
thumped the car. This morning I pulled the communication cable to the
regs and it is now chargeing.
Once it gets some charge in them I can reconnect it. So now it looks
like I have another reg biting the dust in a strange and unusual way.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Davidson wrote:
Capacitors store energy as electrical charge, unlike batteries which
rely on chemical reactions to generate current. The energy storage of
capacitors is proportional to the square of the voltage, so higher
voltages result in vastly greater energy storage. Ultracaps which go
much higher than 3500 volts will allow storage of phenomenal amounts
of energy. I certainly expect to see them in my lifetime, and I'm not
young.
This overlooks the physics of capacitors.
Just like batteries, energy storage in capacitors is measured in
watthours; not volts or amps alone. Designing a capacitor for higher
voltage requires increasing the thickness of its dielectric (the
insulator between the plates); this increases the size and weight. The
thicker dielectric decreases the capacitance, reducing the amphours.
Just like batteries, you wind up right back where you started; a given
volume of capacitor has the same energy storage, no matter whether it is
1v at 1000 farads or 1000v at 1 farad.
I envision the first iteration being a device which will use the
bank of ultracapacitors as input, and output a constant voltage
at a current which will vary as needed. This will allow them to
then power conventional controllers, solar inverters, etc.
Yes; these already exist. The boost converter used in any power supply
that has PFC takes the varying voltage on a capacitor (the rectified AC
power line, which varies from about 5v to 170v), and steps it up to a
relatively constant 300vdc to run a DC/DC converter for whatever load
needs to be powered.
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
I certainly like your sentiment there! Icky chemical bats hopefully
*will* be a thing of the past one day soon.
Actually, there is a continuous "blur" between batteries and capacitors.
Every battery is a capacitor, and every capacitor is a battery. What you
call it depends on what effects you maximize (chemical or electrostatic).
The neatest batteries look just like the neatest capacitors -- two metal
plates with an insulating plastic film between. Dry, clean, safe,
totally sealed... and low capacity.
As you go up in storage capacity, the plates become progressively more
exotic, with much more complicated structures to increase their surface
area. The separator between them also gets exotic; weird toxic chemicals
that corrode things or burn.
What are the current (no pun intended) hurdles to making a 150V - 3000V
input, 0 - 120V output PWM speed controller?
For all types of DC/DC converters, the voltage and current ratings of
the parts are set by the input and output voltages. For example, suppose
you want a 15kw converter with a 150v input. Therefore, the input
current is 15000w / 150v = 100 amps. You need transistors rated at 150v
and 100 amps (minimum; you'd at least double this for a safety factor).
The cost of these transistors is roughly proportional to their voltage x
current rating; 150v x 100a = 15kw, or about $15.
Now suppose you want the same 15kw, but over a 150-300v range. The
transistors need to be rated for the max voltage (300v) and the max
current (15000w / 150v = 100 amps). Now they cost 300v x 100a = 30kw or
$30. Going to a 2:1 input range doubled the cost of your transistors.
Now try 15kw at 150-3000v. You need transistors rated at 3000v to handle
the peak voltage; and 100a to handle the peak current at minimum
voltage. Now they cost 3000v x 100a = 300kw = $300 (20 times the price)!
The same thing happens to every other part in your converter; the
diodes, capacitors, inductors, etc. Designers avoid large voltage ranges
wherever possible. When they can't, they break the range into several
smaller steps; for instance, spanning a 10:1 range with two cascaded
DC/DC converters, each having a 3:1 range. That's why a PFC power supply
actually has two cascaded converters instead of one -- it cheaper that way.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let's say this Ulra Cap comes out and we all get one or two of them.
Is there some existing, off the shelf device that we can use to step
it down from 3500V to 348V to allow us to use the Zilla with it? What
is this thing and how much for it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ffdshow is all you need.
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.
cfm
Its encoded in xvid which is an mpeg4 codec.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Sunday, 17 September 2006 12:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: bittorrent of Dateline EV Episode
> ALL BitTorrent client tools will seed with your downloaded files as
long
> as you leave the file in the directory you originally downloaded it
to.
> Seeding is a fundamental part of every BT client. In fact the tracker
> will slow down your downloads if you don't keep stuff in your in/out
> directory that other people want to download.
>
I downloaded microTorrent just for this, and could only get sound out.
What program plays them correctly? I'd rather watch it on YouTube - is
there a reason this won't work - too long or legal issue?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
You are correct. This Subject is known as Atomospheric Electricity in the
Science of GeoPhysics. The votage potential from the exchange layer to an
earth ground is consistantly around 250,000v - of course as you said, the
current at lower elevations is small (300v 10ma @100ft) on a clear day,
but during a storm as we know, - it is much higher.
The "Frankenstien effect" will be when someone charges an Ultracapacitor
bank with a lightning strike - the result is "free energy" just as Tesla
told us about. Imagine the time when lightning strikes are "a good thing".
We have calculated a strike to be around 55KW - more that enough for a
vehicle.
Why Not?
Jimmy
>From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>A friend of mine did something "completely different". He got a surplus
>deal on a box of high voltage capacitors; something like 2uF at 1600v
>each. He connected them all in series to make something like a 20,000
>volt capacitor.
>Then, he heard of the "sky current" effect. Any large tall ungrounded
>structure would pick up a charge. The effect is huge during rain or
>thunderstorms, but exists even in clear weather.
>He had an old TV antenna on the roof of his house that was up a good 50
>feet, which was not in use, but still had its ground wire for lightning
>protection. So, he cut the ground wire and connected his capacitor bank
>in its place. Lo and behold, the capacitors slowly charged! The sky
>current was only a few microamps, but it would (eventually) charge the
>capacitors to thousands of volts!
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
Bob I think you have to use dcp's coil and plundger set up > I have one
somewhere ,,,,,
If you need It I can send ( first find ) it to you . let me know your
address , if you need it
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: Another One! Update
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 6:17 PM
Subject: Another One!
Hi EVerybody;
Well It AINT gunna go, I guess? Trying to bring the old 87 Sentra to
life. The Curtis wont work. Oh I get the ZAP when ya hook things up,
charging the caps, but it just lies there,like a dead thing. Potbox is
good.
Howthehell DO you get them apart to look for any obvious damage? Or better
yet WHO fixes the @#$%^ things?I don't think it is destroyed? But it DID
sit
around in less than ideal, wet, damp, conditions. I shoulda taken it OUT
of
the car 3 years ago, wiped it off and put it up in my nice dry book case,
or
something. I am guessing that moisture can kill them? It isn't like it is
a
smoking ruin, it LOOKS great.
Other controller stuff: Where do you get those nice Coil/ Solenoid
looking inductive "Potboxes" That often go with DCP Rapters? Or can I use
a
Curtis Potbox with a Rapter? I had the little solenoid setup in the
Rabbit,
but dodn't salvage it. I busted it trying to pull it that dark rainy nite
on
the hiway.It looked like a redily avalible industrial item?Put a Rapter in
the Sentra?Use the Potbox that came with the car/cursit?
Ideas?
Bob, STILL EV less!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
> So, if a standard PWM motor controller is basically just
> a variable DC/DC converter (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
> - why run a DC/DC into a DC/DC? Why not just PWM the voltage
> potential available?
Because the PWM buck converter "chops" the input voltage by varying how
much time it is full on and how much time it is full off. During the
"on" portion of each pulse you would be applying (up to) 3500V to your
motor, and the insulation of the motor and wiring would need to handle
this.
There is also the issue that there are practical limits to the minimum
and maximum duty cycle that the converter can achieve; the minimum on
time will limit the minimum average voltage that can be applied to the
motor and so will result in lurching and jerkiness when starting. The
maximum duty cycle is likely to be less of an issue, except with regard
to efficiency; the nearer the converter operates to 100% duty, the lower
its losses. With a 3000V+ input, the converter would operate at a
maximum duty cycle of about 10% to deliver 300V average to the motor...
Except that our DC motors don't want to see more than about 180V max, so
the converter would actually operate over the range of perhaps 1-6% duty
when the cap is over 3000V. Even discharging it to 1000V doesn't get us
over 20% duty max.
Certainly it is possible to discharge the cap down to about the 180-200V
maximum that our DC motors want to see, but Lee has covered the issues
associated with widening the converter input range already.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are devices that go up to 10 kV for HV inverter
drives,
http://library.abb.com/GLOBAL/SCOT/scot256.nsf/VerityDisplay/4ECA761FCDB466FAC1256C67005300B1/$File/SF02aw_web.pdf
They also use multi level inverters with 5 kV
devices.
Here's an overview of the IGCT (insulated gate
controlled thyristor)
http://library.abb.com/GLOBAL/SCOT/scot256.nsf/VerityDisplay/DCBFA27E52FB4721C1256BB2004549A8/$File/IGCTFly402.pdf
They go up to power levels of 300 MWatt
(that should get the white zombie down the track in a
hurry, not sure where he'll put all of the batteries
:-)
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Let's say this Ulra Cap comes out and we all get one
> or two of them.
> Is there some existing, off the shelf device that we
> can use to step
> it down from 3500V to 348V to allow us to use the
> Zilla with it? What
> is this thing and how much for it?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> It wouldn't be cheap, but could you charge 3500V by having, say, 10
> parallel strings of 30 PbA cellseach? Charge the batteries with a
> PFC-30, which at 30A could supply 50kwh overnight, then switch the 10
> strings to series in the morning and charge the capacitors while your
> showering and having breakfast?
Anything is possible, but you have to ask yourself why you would bother.
This would require 10 360V strings of batteries, each string capable of
storing about 10kWh (for 50% DOD so you don't cycle them to death in
short order). If they are flooded, you have the maintenance issues
associated with that, as well as the issue of providing a proper battery
room (this is a serious size battery pack, I think you would be subject
to similar safety/environmental concerns as any industrial or commercial
battery installation). If they are sealed, you have the additional cost
of regs, etc. for *300* batteries (Rich may be drooling at this thought,
but few others will ;^).
> Or could you do a similar thing with some ultracaps instead of
> batteries
No matter what type of storage you used to accumulate the charge energy
in overnight, you still have the same problem as any other dump charge
arrangement: you can't just connect the fully charged 3500V+ dump pack
to a discharged cap bank in the car. The charge current would be huge
and uncontrolled. So, you need some means of controlling the charge
rate. This could be as basic as tapping the dump pack at appropriate
voltages and manually connecting the car's cap to successively higher
taps as it charges.
Probably the simplest is just a current limited 3500V source that runs
directly off an AC outlet and slowly charges the cap overnight in the
first place.
The issue here isn't that there is a huge hurdle to charging a 3500V
cap, just that you can't do it with an existing charger, and if you
wanted to take advantage of the quick charge times quoted in the press
releases the charge hardware gets more costly. On the plus side, the
charger for a cap should be able to be dead stupid; no need for charge
profiles, temperature compensation, etc. ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
My name is Scott Bradford, and I've been lurking here for awhile trying to
get a handle on all this EV stuff. I don't own an EV but I do want to build
one (or more), and to this effect would like some recommendations on good
books to get me started.
I saw a few on Amazon but some are quite dated and not knowing what I need
to know makes it hard to pick a good book. Ideally something that works as
a study guide with chapter tests or something to help me gauge my
comprehension would help me keep on track.
Also, I'm wondering about career choices once I've absorbed all this great
EV engineering principals. I'm not to happy with what I do to pay bills
right now (cable guy) and would love to be able to get a job that more
aligns with something I'm interested in like EV cars. What type of jobs do
others on the list have that allows them to use this type of knowledge?
Furthermore, are there any good magazines or trade publications I could
subscribe to to stay current other than this great discussion list?
Thanks,
Scott.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome to the list, Scott!
"Convert It" has been the bible. Mike Brown
(ElectroAutomotive) wrote it.
Now if you do a Wikipedia search on EVs, you'll get up
to speed, and you could put the $20 for the book
toward Ev parts instead.
No idea on the other question. Sorry!
peace,
--- ZillaVIlla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> My name is Scott Bradford, and I've been lurking
> here for awhile trying to
> get a handle on all this EV stuff. I don't own an
> EV but I do want to build
> one (or more), and to this effect would like some
> recommendations on good
> books to get me started.
>
> I saw a few on Amazon but some are quite dated and
> not knowing what I need
> to know makes it hard to pick a good book. Ideally
> something that works as
> a study guide with chapter tests or something to
> help me gauge my
> comprehension would help me keep on track.
>
> Also, I'm wondering about career choices once I've
> absorbed all this great
> EV engineering principals. I'm not to happy with
> what I do to pay bills
> right now (cable guy) and would love to be able to
> get a job that more
> aligns with something I'm interested in like EV
> cars. What type of jobs do
> others on the list have that allows them to use this
> type of knowledge?
>
> Furthermore, are there any good magazines or trade
> publications I could
> subscribe to to stay current other than this great
> discussion list?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott.
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You're also missing the point that EEStor promises to cost LESS than
lead-acid per kw/hr. While its voltage variation is a difficulty to
work with, the idea would be to run a powerful DC/DC converter to pull
energy off a ultracap dump pack to charge the EV's caps.
Actually it's also likely a DC/DC converter is necessary even if you
have a fixed voltage lead-acid battery. Charging a cap with just a
ballast resistance is not very efficient at all. I know it's done all
the time in normal electronics but we're talking about capacitance
countless orders of magnitude great and the situation is radically
different. That inefficiency means several things. One, the expensive
dump pack must be made far larger. Two, the electricity cost gets
higher. Three, when dealing with such immense surges of energy, it can
be quite difficult to dissipate the heat created before components start
burning up.
Danny
Roger Stockton wrote:
Bill Dennis wrote:
It wouldn't be cheap, but could you charge 3500V by having, say, 10
parallel strings of 30 PbA cellseach? Charge the batteries with a
PFC-30, which at 30A could supply 50kwh overnight, then switch the 10
strings to series in the morning and charge the capacitors while your
showering and having breakfast?
Anything is possible, but you have to ask yourself why you would bother.
This would require 10 360V strings of batteries, each string capable of
storing about 10kWh (for 50% DOD so you don't cycle them to death in
short order). If they are flooded, you have the maintenance issues
associated with that, as well as the issue of providing a proper battery
room (this is a serious size battery pack, I think you would be subject
to similar safety/environmental concerns as any industrial or commercial
battery installation). If they are sealed, you have the additional cost
of regs, etc. for *300* batteries (Rich may be drooling at this thought,
but few others will ;^).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Senkowsky (Meyers Motors) bought out the on-road
controller line. I'd check with him, and also call
AllTrax.
--- steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi
> Bob I think you have to use dcp's coil and plundger
> set up > I have one
> somewhere ,,,,,
> If you need It I can send ( first find ) it to you .
> let me know your
> address , if you need it
> steve clunn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 1:21 AM
> Subject: Re: Another One! Update
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 6:17 PM
> > Subject: Another One!
> >
> >
> >> Hi EVerybody;
> >
> > Well It AINT gunna go, I guess? Trying to
> bring the old 87 Sentra to
> > life. The Curtis wont work. Oh I get the ZAP when
> ya hook things up,
> > charging the caps, but it just lies there,like a
> dead thing. Potbox is
> > good.
> > Howthehell DO you get them apart to look for any
> obvious damage? Or better
> > yet WHO fixes the @#$%^ things?I don't think it is
> destroyed? But it DID
> > sit
> > around in less than ideal, wet, damp, conditions.
> I shoulda taken it OUT
> > of
> > the car 3 years ago, wiped it off and put it up in
> my nice dry book case,
> > or
> > something. I am guessing that moisture can kill
> them? It isn't like it is
> > a
> > smoking ruin, it LOOKS great.
> >
> > Other controller stuff: Where do you get those
> nice Coil/ Solenoid
> > looking inductive "Potboxes" That often go with
> DCP Rapters? Or can I use
> > a
> > Curtis Potbox with a Rapter? I had the little
> solenoid setup in the
> > Rabbit,
> > but dodn't salvage it. I busted it trying to pull
> it that dark rainy nite
> > on
> > the hiway.It looked like a redily avalible
> industrial item?Put a Rapter in
> > the Sentra?Use the Potbox that came with the
> car/cursit?
> >
> > Ideas?
> >
> > Bob, STILL EV less!!!
> >
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm also new here and have been researching what to do with my current 85
MR2 conversion for several months over the web, however I think Mr. Brown's
book is worth the expense no matter where you are starting from. While it
answers most of the larger questions, it also presents some ideas that one
might not consider until they encounter one of those "I wish I'd done that
differently" moments.
- Kip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Newbie looking for good reading to get up to speed
Welcome to the list, Scott!
"Convert It" has been the bible. Mike Brown
(ElectroAutomotive) wrote it.
Now if you do a Wikipedia search on EVs, you'll get up
to speed, and you could put the $20 for the book
toward Ev parts instead.
No idea on the other question. Sorry!
peace,
--- ZillaVIlla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
My name is Scott Bradford, and I've been lurking
here for awhile trying to
get a handle on all this EV stuff. I don't own an
EV but I do want to build
one (or more), and to this effect would like some
recommendations on good
books to get me started.
I saw a few on Amazon but some are quite dated and
not knowing what I need
to know makes it hard to pick a good book. Ideally
something that works as
a study guide with chapter tests or something to
help me gauge my
comprehension would help me keep on track.
Also, I'm wondering about career choices once I've
absorbed all this great
EV engineering principals. I'm not to happy with
what I do to pay bills
right now (cable guy) and would love to be able to
get a job that more
aligns with something I'm interested in like EV
cars. What type of jobs do
others on the list have that allows them to use this
type of knowledge?
Furthermore, are there any good magazines or trade
publications I could
subscribe to to stay current other than this great
discussion list?
Thanks,
Scott.
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date: 9/15/2006
--- End Message ---
