EV Digest 5893
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(250MPG Extreme Plugin Hybrid: 40 mi EV range + ICE)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(NY accelerates its conversion of 600 fleet hybrids to PIHs)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Bermuda: EV recharge $20/week vs ICE refill $60/week)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Kokam availability
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Calif. sues carmakers over global warming
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Lee's battery eq explanation (was RE: Etiquette Question about the EV
Discussion List)
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 3.4 to 1 ratio. 70 inch circumference tire
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Kokam availability
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 3.4 to 1 ratio. 70 inch circumference tire
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Calif. sues carmakers over global warming
by "gary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Power to Manual Steering Conversion
by Rich Long <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Calif. sues carmakers over global warming
by "Mark Metcalf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVLN(Two new Baroni electric motorbikes)
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Battery weight / Car weight ratio
by "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) charging stations :-) lining the parking lots
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: newbie question - gears in or out?????
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: powertrain as a structural component
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re:Current Eliminator and PBS
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Dateline EV Episode direct download
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Power to Manual Steering Conversion
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Phoenix AZ and Li-Ion
by "England Nathan-r25543" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: powertrain as a structural component
by ZillaVIlla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: powertrain as a structural component
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: powertrain as a structural component
by ZillaVIlla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Advancing a Prestolite MTA 4001 48V compound motor
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Building A Performace EV
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: powertrain as a structural component
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(250MPG Extreme Plugin Hybrid: 40 mi EV range + ICE)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/08/17/018956.html
AFS TRINITY SIGNS ACCORD WITH AUSTIN ENERGY GIVING PLUG-IN
PARTNERS FIRST ACCESS TO 250 MPG EXTREME HYBRID CARS
Ricardo, world's leading automotive engineering firm, to assist
with first XH cars
SEATTLE, August 17, 2006 . . . "An accord that was signed this
week in Seattle and Austin should put Americans one step closer
to seeing the 250 MPG AFS Trinity Power Corp (AFST) Extreme
Hybrid car on the road," according to AFS Trinity CEO Edward W.
Furia.
The AFST/Austin Energy (AE) memorandum of understanding sets the
stage for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs) to be put into
the participating fleets of Plug-in Partners (PIP) consortium of
utilities and municipalities. Although many hurdles still need to
be surmounted before the first Extreme Hybrid rolls into a PIP
participant fleet, "we took a big step today," said Roger Duncan,
the Deputy General Manager of Austin Energy which is the founding
participant of PIP.
Duncan said, "The deal we signed today gives PIP participants the
opportunity to be among the first to order AFS Trinity Extreme
Hybrid vehicles. PIP's job is to encourage our members to lease
these vehicles. AFS Trinity's job is to complete development of
the prototype and involve an automotive OEM as a development
partner. All of these things must be accomplished for the
agreement to work."
Duncan said that PIP regards this agreement as one of the most
important developments to date in the plug-in hybrid field. The
AFS Trinity technology is expected to permit PHEV cars and SUVs
to have the same acceleration and highway speed performance in
all-electric mode (when zero fuel is used) as when they are
operated as conventional hybrids. In essence, for the first 40
miles that are driven, the XH is expected to have all of the
benefits of a fully electric vehiclezero fuel consumption and
zero emissions but with performance equal to a conventional
vehicle. This is significant because a 40-mile range is adequate
for the daily driving needs of 75% of American drivers. Then, as
a bonus, if and when necessary, the car can be operated in hybrid
mode, increasing its range to more than 450 miles.
In May, AFS Trinity announced it had filed a patent for an
Extreme Hybrid drive train that makes possible a plug-in hybrid
that will travel more than 250 MPG as a car and more than 150 MPG
as an SUV.
Furia said, "This agreement is important not just as a validation
of our technology but also as a clear path toward its
commercialization. We have been talking with carmaker OEMs in the
U.S. and in three other countries for several months. Once we
complete an agreement with one or more of them, we will be able
to specify the model and price of the vehicles we can offer to
PIP participants.
About AFS Trinity Power Corporation
[...] http://www.afstrinity.com
About Austin Energy & Plug-in Partners
[...] http://www.pluginpartners.com
About Ricardo
[...] http://www.ricardo.com
Copyright © 1996-2006 The Auto Channel. all rights are reserved
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(NY accelerates its conversion of 600 fleet hybrids to PIHs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.newrules.org/de/archives/000130.html
New York Seeks Proposals to Convert Fleet Vehicles to Plug-in
Hybrids
The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority
(NYSERDA) has issued guidelines for vendors to obtain funding
under the New York State Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV)
Technology Initiative. The goal of the program is to accelerate
the conversion of the state's hybrid vehicle fleet (500-600
vehicles) into plug-in hybrids.
NYSERDA's Program Opportunity Notice (PON) 1088 seeks proposals
to provide funding for businesses to develop, test, demonstrate,
and ultimately supply to selected state government fleets the
hardware and services necessary to convert existing state-owned
hybrid electric passenger cars and light trucks to plug-in hybrid
(PHEV) operation.
Proposals are for a two stage project. Stage 1 will encompass
work to develop and deliver a prototype vehicle for demonstration
and testing. Stage 2 will encompass the conversion of all or a
segment of a selected NYS government fleet of existing hybrid
electric vehicles. The total available NYSERDA funding is
$10,000,000. It is anticipated that multiple awards up to
$100,000 each will be available for Stage 1 activities, with the
balance of funds available for one or more subsequent Stage 2
awards.
Successful proposals from individual companies or teams must be
led by a business entity capable of commercializing the PHEV
technology. A very nice feature of this initiative is that
proposers must present a viable plan to manufacture all, or a
significant portion of the PHEV conversion system in New York
State, or otherwise generate significant economic activity in the
State.
Democratic Energy would suggest that marrying this initiative
with another NYSERDA initiative titled, New York State Bio-Fuel
Station Initiative: Driving Energy Independence for the Empire
State, would be a perfect way to marry PHEV development with
biofuels.
The New Rules Project
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Bermuda: EV recharge $20/week vs ICE refill $60/week)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20060919%2FNEWS%2F109190166
News Tuesday, September 19, 2006
Plug and go By Scott Neil
Fiona and Jeffrey Elkinsons electric car costs just $20 a month
to recharge
For most of the past decade the Elkinson family has been getting
around in cars that never need to be filled up at a gas station
and the reason is not because the Paget family has been amazingly
frugal in their gas consumption.
The family is now on their second all-electric car which can be
plugged into a power socket at home and charged up to run for up
to 50 miles without needing another top-up of electricity.
While the source of energy comes ultimately from the burning of
oil at the Belco power plant [ http://www.belcoholdings.bm ],
their four-door family car itself is arguably cleaner and more
environmentally friendly your usual internal combustion engine
vehicle. For one thing the car does not create any fumes as it
travels along roads. It is also extremely quiet like an electric
golf cart.
When a monitoring exercise was done by Belco eight years ago it
was found that the car was costing the Elkinsons $20-a-week to
run, compared to the $60-a-week they had been paying to refill
their previous standard car.
As far as the Elkinsons know theirs is the only electric car on
the Island. However, Fiona Elkinson said she would like to see
more of the vehicles in Bermuda as the Island is ideally suited
to the cars due to its small size and relatively flat geography.
The example of the electric car, which is powered by 12
batteries, is included in the final section of the Draft
Sustainable Development Strategy and Implementation Plan to be
discussed this evening. The theme of the meeting is entitled
Living within Bermudas Limits and one of the areas of
discussion is how the Island can meet its energy needs without
relying entirely on imported fossil fuels.
As an example of good practice in this area the Elkinsons
electric car is mentioned as a way of diminishing the reliance on
imported gasoline for motorists and If Bermudas electricity
were generated from renewable sources, using this vehicle would
not contribute to carbon dioxide emissions.
But is having an electric car desirable or practical?
Mrs. Elkinson said the initial cost of buying the car was $40,000
much higher than a comparable price for a conventional car,
especially as the electric car has basic features, although these
do include air conditioning.
The lower running costs should, in the long run, balance out the
initial investment. If the car needs repairs or replacement parts
it can be frustrating finding someone skilled enough on the
Island to do the work, or having to wait until the replacement
parts can be shipped across from the US.
But having pointed this out, she noted the car had only been out
of action for a handful of weeks during the past eight years.
The cars plus points, according to Mrs. Elkinson, include its
quietness, its cheap weekly running costs and the ability to get
from one end of the Island to the other and back on a single
charge up.
She would like to see other Bermudians using such cars because of
the lack of fumes they create on the streets, although she
recognises the initial cost is prohibitive for many people.
The Elkinsons are not the only ones who have an all-electric
transport solution. Environmentalist Stuart Hayward also gets
around on an electric motorbike that he recharges at home.
Copyright ©2001-2006 The Royal Gazette Ltd.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
So, are Kokam LiPoly batteries actually available somewhere?
Is it physically possible to buy any?
I've tried contacting them, and it's been made clear that they are
not interested in small time buyers.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Calif. sues carmakers over global warming
It's probably off topic, but thanks for sharing.
Yes, this is off topic. It's about California politics and not EVs.
I hope this isn't the start of a 100+ message thread.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awesome explanation Lee, I always look forward to your posts. I now understand
more of the
BMS stuff. Thanks!
> On your comments on the PowerCheq vs. BattEQ websites: I find that
> battery related product claims are 99.94% pure marketing hype.
Hehe, 99.94% pure. Ivory Soap. I remember that marketing campaign. I think I am
just old
enough...
--
joe vitek
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That should be workable with 120vdc and an L91 class motor. Maybe even an
A89 but that one might fireball. This will be near 1000 pounds with me on
it. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: 3.4 to 1 ratio. 70 inch circumference tire
> I worked it out separately,and got the same numbers
> 3116 RPM for 22" diameter wheel, 3077 RPM for 70" circumference
>
> 60 * 5280 * 12 / 60 / (22 * 3.14159) * 3.4 = 3116 RPM
> MPH Feet IN Minutes Dia Pi Ratio
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > Tire is 22 inchs tall. Ratio is 3.4 to 1 Looks like 60 mph should be
3000
> > rpm on the motor. 905 wheel spins per mile x 3.4 should give the motor
rpm.
> > Did I do this right. I could get a smaller back tire Lawrence
Rhodes....
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, this is exactly the opposite when I spoke with Dr Joon Kim in Arizona.
(Kokam America). He was very pleased to do business. Mind you I was
wanting to order 80 cells. If you want to order one or two, maybe speak
with Cliff.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: September 20, 2006 2:44 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Kokam availability
So, are Kokam LiPoly batteries actually available somewhere?
Is it physically possible to buy any?
I've tried contacting them, and it's been made clear that they are not
interested in small time buyers.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The formula for calculating mph, rpm, ratio, tire size:
Rpm x WC
Mph = ----------
Ratio x 1056
Where WC is the Wheel Circumference
Ratio is the the overall gear ratios.
1056 is a constant
Therefore:
Mph = (3000 x 70)/(3.4 x 1056) = 58.4
Lets say you want a maximum speed of 100 mph at a motor speed of 6000 rpm,
then the ratio would be:
Rpm x WD
Ratio = ---------
Mph x 1056
Ratio = (6000 x 70)/(100 x 1056) = 3.97
I am running a 90 inch circumference tire with a 5.57:1 gear ratio which
gets me to 92 mph at 6000 rpm.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:01 PM
Subject: 3.4 to 1 ratio. 70 inch circumference tire
> Tire is 22 inchs tall. Ratio is 3.4 to 1 Looks like 60 mph should be
> 3000
> rpm on the motor. 905 wheel spins per mile x 3.4 should give the motor
> rpm.
> Did I do this right. I could get a smaller back tire Lawrence
> Rhodes....
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent, I was hoping that would happen.
Now - the People of the U.S. vs. oil companies.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2006-09-20 at 14:53 -0500, Ralph wrote:
> This is something I am considering also. I found this a while back:
>
> http://www.mysimon.com/Auto-Parts-and-Accessories/9000-10940_8-0.html?sdcq=dnatrs-car_steering_wholesale/dflltrail-Car%20Steering%20Wholesale&pagenum=2
>
> A real manual steering box is easier than a rigged power steering box that
> has no power! Relatively cheap too.
>
> -Ralph
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:08:07 +0000
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek) wrote:
That My Simon looks like a good source.
In my case I am interested in a '94 S-10 manual steering gear box. It
looks like '93 is the last year they have one listed. Has anyone put a
manual box in a '94 or newer S-10? If so, what kind did you use?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jmygann wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060920/bs_nm/environment_autos_dc_13
Give me a break. Lawyers!? The Sierra Club!? Why not sue the consumer
folks?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone here know if these scooters are manufactured in England or
elsewhere like the US's major trading partner.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: EVLN(Two new Baroni electric motorbikes)
EVLN(Two new Baroni electric motorbikes)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20060806/baroni-electric-motorbike/
[image
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/buscardbike.jpg
]
Baroni have released 2 new electric motorbikes, the EFV150 and
EFV200. Both bikes can be recharged from a normal mains power
outlet and offer speeds up to 40mph.
The acceleration of the EFV200 is relatively quick (for an
electric vehicle) going from 0-30 in ~5 seconds. The fact that
they need no fuel and just a recharge makes them eco friendly and
very cheap to run (though you'll obviously still need
insurance).
For zipping to work and back these are a very environmentally
friendly solution to the problem of pollution. They are available
now with prices starting at £1345 from Baroni Bikes.
[...]
Copyright 2006 Sagecroft Technologies
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've read that the battery weight should be about 1/3 of the car weight.
However is that 1/3 of Gross weight or Curb Weight?
Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking for a pic a while back, of parking lots lined with
plugins (for heaters, but suggestive of how an EV charging lot might
look like.)
I was less than excited to stumble across "Intelligent Controllers"
being marketed to lot owners as energy saving devices that switch the
heater outlets on and off based on time and ambient temps
:(
Example seen here:
http://tinyurl.com/e7j69
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid
--- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not so many block heaters in Anchorage as I would like, however one
> of our members just got his truck on the road for the first time
> yesterday in Fairbanks and they have block heaters (I mean charging
> stations :-) lining the parking lots.
> Mike
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--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 19, 2006, at 2:57 AM, Jeremy Rutman wrote:
I'm missing something here - from what I understand so far I can
get any torque I need at a given rpm, depending only on the power to
the motor
(and environmental conditions keeping the rpms constant).
So my zippiness (or torque at low rpms lets say) will only depend on
the max
power of the motor which is in fact high - 78kW
or 100 horses, no?
In the end torque boils down to amps. You cannot get 78 kW at any rpm.
There will be a point where the controller is delivering maximum amps,
so giving maximum torque, and the motor rpm is so low that the voltage
being applied to the motor is less than the pack voltage. You need to
work with the peak torque you can get at the amps you will have
available (hopefully motor performance curves are available.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey JZ..
The design team leader was Shawn
The Build team leader was Me... at least that was what was on the Check stub
from Mg.
It really doesn't matter the complete design and layout was decided before I
even got there.
It was more a matter of doing the best we could with some insane ideas.
The point of the post was ..Both the Gone Postal van..that I have about 400
miles driving on.. and the Mongster Garage car.. both failed with opened
breakers...
Both EVs need much bigger breakers... Funny Huh???
Gp had many runs on her before we even opened a breaker.. the Mg Car ate the
quad pack of breakers on the first hard launch. Tougher breakers would have
both running faster and harder.
Again both were.. What we could find on site.... Rod had the advantage of
buying what we needed, But.. er well didn't. At Mg I was handed a 1000 amp
breaker pack, here Madman install !
Twin 600 amper Heinmanns would have been a better idea. Maybe even a pair
of 800 if we could find them.
So your Flash builbs are safe for now... lets get the Flashbacks and
nightmares about them forgotten.
I will live and learn and not make that mistake the next time I have 3600
amps of controller and 4200 amps of Lithium to play with.
What we could have done with a lighter chassis!!! Oh for less Car and the
same watts.
Madman
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Z" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
Well...Since everyone is "countering mis-information" I guess I can chime
in.
Rich Rich Rich...you know you weren't the "Build Crew Leader" for that
episode of Monster Garage, so why even go there. That title would have to
belong to Mr. Shawn Lawless and his "we can do it" attitude!! If you had
your way we would have quit and throw in the towel a few...no...many times
during the build. However, I do have to say, we would NOT have been
successfull without every member of the team, including you!! Awesome job
with the wiring!!!...and distracting Jesse and the crew with their
"diversions"!!
As for the car, I'm pretty sure it's retired and will never race again.
Right now it's in South Carolina and the new Marketing department doesn't
quite know how to use it. But, I'm still trying. I don't really know who
would win the race between GP and MG...the "flash-bulbs" might blow in the
MG..right Rich?
I'm still waiting to see the "not in my lifetime" full electric vehicles
at my local dealership...but they seem to not have a clue what I am talking
about...maybe I should drop your name and see if that helps? ;-)
Well back to tool and battery design.
Jon
Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So yea Rod .. Go would Kick the Monster Garage's Chevy pretty good.
I hope you get as much satisfaction from that as I do.
Bring it on Jesse!!!
Madman
Oh by the way.. the Mg car is owned by Milwaukee Tools.
Hey Zick.... Bring your "Not in our life time" Lithium power Seld up here...
we have a willing compeditor...
Both are large heavy and over powered.
I think the Mg car could do low 13s, with some real tires under it and ...a
pair of 600 amp breakers.....
Same weak link..... Feel batter Rod???
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde"
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
> Now for some real facts. "Monster Garage" and "Sucking Amps" were both
> Discovery Channel programs. "Sucking Amps" was a pilot for a possible
series
> which was produced by Craig Piligian of Pilgrim Films and Television. This
> is the production company that does "American Chopper" and Boyd
Coddington's
> "American Hot Rod".
>
> Rich stated: "I think Rod had a 98mph But I think MG had a better ET with
a
> 14.53 at 93.33 mph"
>
> To find the true ET for "Gone Postal" one only has to own a computer and
go
> to www.nedra.com to find that GP turned a 14.007
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
> PS: Countering mis-information takes up way too much of my valuable time.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:51 PM
> Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
>
>
> > Umm Hello Tom
> >
> > First GP was buildt for the Discovery channel... NOT Monster Garage. One
> > was
> > two yeard before the other.
> >
> > Monster Garage Episode #83 I think was done in December '05, I was the
> > Build
> > crew leader.
> > We buildt a 62 Chevy Bell Air.. with 2 two motors from Shawn Lawless's
> > dragster.
> > And We have better top speeds With Gp than with the Mg Car.
> >
> > I think Rod had a 98mph But I think MG had a better ET with a 14.53 at
> > 93.33
> > mph.
> >
> > So a VERY good argument would be the Gone Postal and the Monster Garage
> > Car
> > shoot out.
> >
> > Lots of Old lead VS spaning new Lion.
> >
> > I would root for Gp.. it has more of my blood in it. And I know how to
> > make
> > it Faster.
> >
> > Madman
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Shay"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
> >
> >
> >> While others are sharing their thoughts about Gone Postal, I'll share
> >> some
> >> of mine.
> >>
> >> The idea behind creating Gone Postal was to create a farce for the
> >> Monster
> >> Garage TV show. Converting an old mail truck into a drag racer was a
> >> totally
> >> absurd idea and impossible. I think I can safely say impossible
because
> > if
> >> the team who built it couldn't make Gone Postal into a drag racer, then
> >> nobody could. I was surprised, impressed and pleased that GP ran as
well
> >> as it did.
> >>
> >> So, what's to become of GP? My guess is that its racing days are
over.
> >> Maybe now is a good time to share ideas for GP, the retired race truck.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/433 - Release Date:
8/30/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006
>
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
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--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
I've long been kicking around an idea of making frame rails into batteries
to save weight in an EV. (like killing two birds with one stone) and I was
wondering if anyone here knew of any examples of the powertrain being used
as a structural component?
Like a battery as a frame member type of thing? or composite body panels
that generate a current like a battery? I don't know how powerful of a
battery could be made in this manner but the potential weight savings might
make it workable.
anyone ever heard of such a beast?
Hi Otmar,
In the ICE world, using the engine as a structural member is very
common. Many current motorcycles use the engine as a partially
stressed member. Tony Foale made several customs using a standard big
Japanese engine and attaching little sub frames to the head and
gearbox for the fork and swingarm - a fully stressed engine. Many F1
cars use a fully stressed engine too.
The common thread here is using the cast aluminum engine block and
trans case to carry chassis loads in addition to
combustion/reciprocating/rotating loads. Easy to do when designing
from scratch, even doable as a retrofit.
You're talking about something a bit different. Castings are great at
carrying loads. Batteries are a bit more of a challenge. They are
usually made of of many layers of different materials, not unlike
composites. The problem is that what works really well as an
electrolyte is gonna really suck as a binding agent for a composite.
The mechanical requirements of a battery electrode with likely
conflict with the requirements of a reinforcing matrix. The battery's
electrical structure doesn't lend itself to being a load-bearing
structure.
There's still a lot of merit to your idea though. There is a need for
structural strength in the case of the battery. There's no reason you
couldn't design the case to take an additional load, just like an
engine casting. I can envision a frame rail that could be filled with
a stack of fairly flimsy cells - basically a very long battery that
also supports the car. The backbone frame of the Sundancer, stuffed
with golf cart batteries, is nothing but a fully stressed battery box.
I can also see a stressed-skin composite vehicle where the entire skin
has cellular recesses, each loaded with a thin, flexible, replaceable
battery. (Anyone who thinks that would be a lot of wires in the skin
of the vehicle has never seen a modern airplane without its interior.)
I'd be interested in hearing more about your ideas.
Chris
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Current Eliminator will be on channel 6 in tucson thurs at 6 thirty(Arizona
Ilustrated),then on friday it will be avaible for download on KUAT.On fri. also
it will be sent out for other pbs for review and possible showing in your
area.Its 4.5 minutes out of 7.5 hrs of filming.It shows the cars and dragsters
I
race against and my home track.While watching this film bear in mind I have a
400 point lead against them with the last race of the regular season on
Sat.nite. Enjoy the download..........
Dennis
Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm still working on a way to transcode it to MPEG. It's MP4 right now;
you may need to download a codec.
Jude
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I just got the apple question mark & no video. Lawrence Rhodes......
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A less than inspiring site. I wonder if they know that there is a
difference between a 1955 VW Beetle steering box and a 1963 VW Beetle
steering box. Same photo, same price - does not compute. I would guess
that both are late Beetle steering boxes (need a new pitman arm for
both older VWs.)
Please be careful.
Paul "neon" G.
On Sep 20, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Ralph wrote:
This is something I am considering also. I found this a while back:
http://www.mysimon.com/Auto-Parts-and-Accessories/9000-10940_8-0.html?
sdcq=dnatrs-car_steering_wholesale/dflltrail-
Car%20Steering%20Wholesale&pagenum=2
A real manual steering box is easier than a rigged power steering box
that has no power! Relatively cheap too.
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I am not ready to fork out the cash on a set of Li-Ion batteries just
yet but was disappointed to see their maximum storage temperature was
too low for Phoenix, Arizona. This means I couldn't use them at any
price and live here. Valence shows 122F maximum storage temperature and
this would be very easy to exceed for this area, are there other more
temperature tolerant Lithium batteries?
Thanks,
Nate
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--- Begin Message ---
On 9/20/06, Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Otmar wrote:
I'd be interested in hearing more about your ideas.
well, 2 trains of thought,...
1. a backbone type of structure where the backbone of the EV is used as a
supporting structure for all other components in the vehicle and internally
used as a battery.
2. the Exoskeleton, where composite structure is layered together which
includes the basic components of a battery. like a big shell which
everything hangs onto from the inside. this would lend itself to being
crash-worrthy (even if the structure was destroyed in a big crash) and
encompass a large surface area for a large amount of energy stored. with
all the different materials available for creating a composite structure,
many of them sprayed on, some could be weaves of conductors, some could be
electrolytes, some could be made from metals of different composition such
that in the end you have a large battery. add some strategic wiring layers,
and the right types of voltage converters, it would seem that you could
make a big battery that could support everything else you'd need for a EV.
I don't see recesses of electrolyte so much as layers of skin forming a big
battery. it would seem that we use converters and controllers to get
voltage and current from one level to another anyhow, why not a custom body
that puts off some strange odd amount of voltage and then regulate back from
there? Not that I know better, but I don't think electrolyte has to be
completely fluid to be effective.
how about the "home built battery"? is it such an insurmountable task?
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--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Careful there.....I don't think that ZillaVilla is Otmar
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Tromley
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: powertrain as a structural component
Otmar wrote:
> I've long been kicking around an idea of making frame rails into batteries
> to save weight in an EV. (like killing two birds with one stone) and I was
> wondering if anyone here knew of any examples of the powertrain being used
> as a structural component?
> Like a battery as a frame member type of thing? or composite body panels
> that generate a current like a battery? I don't know how powerful of a
> battery could be made in this manner but the potential weight savings
might
> make it workable.
>
> anyone ever heard of such a beast?
Hi Otmar,
In the ICE world, using the engine as a structural member is very
common. Many current motorcycles use the engine as a partially
stressed member. Tony Foale made several customs using a standard big
Japanese engine and attaching little sub frames to the head and
gearbox for the fork and swingarm - a fully stressed engine. Many F1
cars use a fully stressed engine too.
The common thread here is using the cast aluminum engine block and
trans case to carry chassis loads in addition to
combustion/reciprocating/rotating loads. Easy to do when designing
from scratch, even doable as a retrofit.
You're talking about something a bit different. Castings are great at
carrying loads. Batteries are a bit more of a challenge. They are
usually made of of many layers of different materials, not unlike
composites. The problem is that what works really well as an
electrolyte is gonna really suck as a binding agent for a composite.
The mechanical requirements of a battery electrode with likely
conflict with the requirements of a reinforcing matrix. The battery's
electrical structure doesn't lend itself to being a load-bearing
structure.
There's still a lot of merit to your idea though. There is a need for
structural strength in the case of the battery. There's no reason you
couldn't design the case to take an additional load, just like an
engine casting. I can envision a frame rail that could be filled with
a stack of fairly flimsy cells - basically a very long battery that
also supports the car. The backbone frame of the Sundancer, stuffed
with golf cart batteries, is nothing but a fully stressed battery box.
I can also see a stressed-skin composite vehicle where the entire skin
has cellular recesses, each loaded with a thin, flexible, replaceable
battery. (Anyone who thinks that would be a lot of wires in the skin
of the vehicle has never seen a modern airplane without its interior.)
I'd be interested in hearing more about your ideas.
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm not Otmar!!!
uh is this Otmar? http://www.evcl.com/914/
:-)
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Does the angle depend on the skew of the rotor conductors to the comm
also? The rotor pole relative to the field pole and the current is what
creates the "armature effect", If I am understanding correctly we need
to accommodate for that also.
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--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
No, what was originally two separate motors is now one motor with the
best qualities of two motors.
Back-to-back, belly-to-belly at the Zombie jamboree!
I am so sorry. I've been dying to sing it for months.
Credit is due to all who were involved, with the master motor builder
title certainly going to Jim Husted...the man's work is artistry!
Jim, if you were ever a journeyman, this must be your masterwork. It's
catapulted you to stardom on the list.
Jude "Spark Lad" Anthony
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--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
I've long been kicking around an idea of making frame rails into
batteries to save weight in an EV.
This seems possible; maybe even practical for certain specialized purposes.
A battery's case is structural, to hold the cells and contain whatever
pressure they may produce. So, I can imagine making the frame of your
vehicle out of some non-conductive composite material, with pockets for
unpackaged cells to slide into. That would eliminate most of the weight
of the battery cases.
Batteries can pressurize themselves inside. There are lots of structures
that get stronger when "inflated" by internal pressure. You might have a
pipe frame, with the pipes held rigid by internal cylindrical cells.
Chris Tromley wrote:
The backbone frame of the Sundancer, stuffed with golf cart batteries
is nothing but a fully stressed battery box.
Yes, that's an example using a square tube.
Another possibility is to use the printed circuit boards for the various
electronics as structural members. I've seen equipment that used PC
boards as the front panels, with the actual circuitry mounted to the
inside of these boards.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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