EV Digest 5894
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) AC controller with regen
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: charging stations :-) lining the parking lots
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: newbie question - gears in or out?????
by Ron Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Sparrow efficiency, was Re: Powercheq
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) "The Truth About Electric Cars"
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Building A Performace EV
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: "The Truth About Electric Cars"
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Ceramic battery ?
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ceramic battery ?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Sparrow efficiency, was Re: Powercheq
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) New GM electric car
by John Norton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 3.4 to 1 ratio. 70 inch circumference tire
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: New GM electric car
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) "How to buy one?" was RE: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica NY
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Videos of EV car builds
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: charging stations :-) lining the parking lots
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: powertrain as a structural component
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just an fyi,
There is one of these Brusa AC325 controllers left with 2+ days to go on
ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=140030226206&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT
mario
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Lock,
Some time ago, we install a demand control system to provide power to a
continues electric hot water base board heater in a 8000 sq ft house. Each
section of heater from 2 foot to 8 foot has a temperature control plus
separate circuits to a PowerLogic Demand control system.
If we could turn on all these heaters all on at the same time, there were be
a 800 amp load on the service. With the built in thermo's and demand
control system, the heaters ampere would surge up to 225 amps and then taper
down to 30 amps continuous at 0 degrees F.
It can be program to pulse one heater at a time at a maximum of 10 amperes.
This system is known as the logid AND OR NOT which is call NOR switching
systems.
The unit that you listed may not have interconnection between each module to
perform the singular pulse to each receptacle. There is a demand factor
between separate pulse control thermostat heaters which will reduce the
current flow.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:33 PM
Subject: charging stations :-) lining the parking lots
> I was looking for a pic a while back, of parking lots lined with
> plugins (for heaters, but suggestive of how an EV charging lot might
> look like.)
>
> I was less than excited to stumble across "Intelligent Controllers"
> being marketed to lot owners as energy saving devices that switch the
> heater outlets on and off based on time and ambient temps
> :(
> Example seen here:
> http://tinyurl.com/e7j69
>
> Lock
> Toronto
> Human/Electric Hybrid
>
> --- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Not so many block heaters in Anchorage as I would like, however one
> > of our members just got his truck on the road for the first time
> > yesterday in Fairbanks and they have block heaters (I mean charging
> > stations :-) lining the parking lots.
> > Mike
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
<snip>
In the end torque boils down to amps. You cannot get 78 kW at any rpm.
There will be a point where the controller is delivering maximum amps,
so giving maximum torque, and the motor rpm is so low that the voltage
being applied to the motor is less than the pack voltage. You need to
work with the peak torque you can get at the amps you will have
available (hopefully motor performance curves are available.)
Paul "neon" G.
Here's a chart for the ADC 9" that calculates max torque with various
voltages and motor rpm.
http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/MotorFB1as.htm
Using the formula at the bottom of page
http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/evsim3.htm,
at 240 volts and 6000 rpm torque would still be 120.
Does increasing voltage, result in max torque being available at higher
rpms?
Is this type of information available for the WarP 9 or 11? I found a
spreadsheet at http://www.evsource.com/tls_warp11.php, but increasing
the input voltage from 72 only re-calculates motor rpm.
Ron Archer
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After monitoring the Sparrow group (when it was novel) I saw a lot of the
folks there go with PowerCheqs. It looked to me (from postings of mileage
drop) that some were installed *after* the range had dropped off. To me (a
relative novice who'd only fried a couple packs) it seemed they were more
interested in spending a few hundred bucks, than in finding the cause.
I've never figured out if it was defective batteries, a defective charging
scheme, or perhaps their heavy draw on batts that caused this, which may be
in not having a proper minimum voltage cut off? I didn't hear back from any
of the folks, to tell if they ever actually tested their batts when mileage
dropped off below 20 miles. From reading the posts, I got the impression
these folks were fairly knowledgeable in EVs, but never saw any other person
post about ways to check batts, chargers, and so forth... just in finding
patches to *not* repair an existing problem.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these BE systems only work when you have
a pack of batts that are reasonably healthy. They aren't going to report a
bad batt in the string or a bad charger, correct?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:36 PM
Subject: Sparrow efficiency, was Re: Powercheq
> > Well, I recently received my 3rd Sparrow.
> > This is the 3rd one with a dead pack.
> > This is the 3rd one with PowerCheq's installed.
> > As far as I can tell, one VERY IMPORTANT item with powercheq's is to
> > never leave the vehicle off the charger for more than a day or
> > two! They are always drawing power from the pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The problem with lithium-ion batteries is that they are something
> not entirely understood. Scientists still don't understand
> totally why these batteries undergo a spike in temperature, and
> either smoke or catch fire... but such explosions are relatively
> rare. Of the millions of batteries that now power mobile phones,
> laptops, and vehicles, only a few hundred have caught fire. The
> concerns being voiced these days are from observers who put
> safety first and who want to make sure that future engineering
> takes current concerns into consideration.
That's an excellent post. I don't know whether scientists understand why
these batts overheat or not... and explosion is not one of the main worries,
IMHO.
What is a problem is any case where lithium is exposed to air. According to
what I've been researching, this will start a fire. Whether this is due to
an improperly sealed battery, overcharging, or an accident rupturing a
single cell, it will start a chain reaction. Apparently, even if you escape
the sudden (extreme) fire, the fumes can still kill, and the entire vehicle
*will* char down, with parts of the surface it's sitting on.
There is a huge advantage of slow charging with this sort of structure, as
in cell phones, rechargable batts for cameras and remotes, and so forth.
Slow charging (even with the cheapest chargers) doesn't seem to reach high
temps. And naturally, our laptops and cell phones aren't usually crushed at
100 MPH closing speeds, as a car would be subjected to. Crash testing
probably won't tell us anything about any risk. They don't crash cars that
have their fuel tanks installed, so I doubt they'd crash Lithium batt loaded
cars together. (Remember, these are done indoors... and those dudes want to
live as much as a normal man.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Truth About Electric Cars
Article in the October 2006 edition
Mother Earth News
Just so ya know.
R. Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
1981 Jet Electrica.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What you need is Limitron Circuit Breakers, which are design to take the
initial surge up to over 200,000 amperes and than have a running ampere of
4000 to 6000 amperes.
Or use Buss Co. Limitron bolt buss bar fuses that are also rated at over
200,000 amperes and way, way, way lot cheaper than a Limitron circuit
breaker, which can be over $5000.00.
I have run these type of fuses in my EV since 1975 and still going with it.
It is a 400 amp continous rating that can take 800 amps driving up a steep 2
mile hill at 60 mph for 2 minutes or more.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
> Hey JZ..
>
> The design team leader was Shawn
> The Build team leader was Me... at least that was what was on the Check
> stub
> from Mg.
>
> It really doesn't matter the complete design and layout was decided before
> I
> even got there.
> It was more a matter of doing the best we could with some insane ideas.
>
> The point of the post was ..Both the Gone Postal van..that I have about
> 400
> miles driving on.. and the Mongster Garage car.. both failed with opened
> breakers...
> Both EVs need much bigger breakers... Funny Huh???
>
> Gp had many runs on her before we even opened a breaker.. the Mg Car ate
> the
> quad pack of breakers on the first hard launch. Tougher breakers would
> have
> both running faster and harder.
>
> Again both were.. What we could find on site.... Rod had the advantage of
> buying what we needed, But.. er well didn't. At Mg I was handed a 1000
> amp
> breaker pack, here Madman install !
>
> Twin 600 amper Heinmanns would have been a better idea. Maybe even a pair
> of 800 if we could find them.
>
> So your Flash builbs are safe for now... lets get the Flashbacks and
> nightmares about them forgotten.
> I will live and learn and not make that mistake the next time I have 3600
> amps of controller and 4200 amps of Lithium to play with.
>
> What we could have done with a lighter chassis!!! Oh for less Car and the
> same watts.
>
> Madman
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Z" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
>
>
> Well...Since everyone is "countering mis-information" I guess I can chime
> in.
>
> Rich Rich Rich...you know you weren't the "Build Crew Leader" for that
> episode of Monster Garage, so why even go there. That title would have to
> belong to Mr. Shawn Lawless and his "we can do it" attitude!! If you had
> your way we would have quit and throw in the towel a few...no...many times
> during the build. However, I do have to say, we would NOT have been
> successfull without every member of the team, including you!! Awesome job
> with the wiring!!!...and distracting Jesse and the crew with their
> "diversions"!!
> As for the car, I'm pretty sure it's retired and will never race again.
> Right now it's in South Carolina and the new Marketing department doesn't
> quite know how to use it. But, I'm still trying. I don't really know who
> would win the race between GP and MG...the "flash-bulbs" might blow in the
> MG..right Rich?
>
> I'm still waiting to see the "not in my lifetime" full electric vehicles
> at my local dealership...but they seem to not have a clue what I am
> talking
> about...maybe I should drop your name and see if that helps? ;-)
>
> Well back to tool and battery design.
> Jon
>
>
>
> Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So yea Rod .. Go would Kick the Monster Garage's Chevy pretty good.
>
> I hope you get as much satisfaction from that as I do.
>
> Bring it on Jesse!!!
>
> Madman
>
> Oh by the way.. the Mg car is owned by Milwaukee Tools.
> Hey Zick.... Bring your "Not in our life time" Lithium power Seld up
> here...
> we have a willing compeditor...
> Both are large heavy and over powered.
>
> I think the Mg car could do low 13s, with some real tires under it and
> ...a
> pair of 600 amp breakers.....
> Same weak link..... Feel batter Rod???
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
>
>
> > Now for some real facts. "Monster Garage" and "Sucking Amps" were both
> > Discovery Channel programs. "Sucking Amps" was a pilot for a possible
> series
> > which was produced by Craig Piligian of Pilgrim Films and Television.
> > This
> > is the production company that does "American Chopper" and Boyd
> Coddington's
> > "American Hot Rod".
> >
> > Rich stated: "I think Rod had a 98mph But I think MG had a better ET
> > with
> a
> > 14.53 at 93.33 mph"
> >
> > To find the true ET for "Gone Postal" one only has to own a computer and
> go
> > to www.nedra.com to find that GP turned a 14.007
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> > "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> > www.suckamps.com
> >
> > PS: Countering mis-information takes up way too much of my valuable
> > time.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rich Rudman"
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
> >
> >
> > > Umm Hello Tom
> > >
> > > First GP was buildt for the Discovery channel... NOT Monster Garage.
> > > One
> > > was
> > > two yeard before the other.
> > >
> > > Monster Garage Episode #83 I think was done in December '05, I was the
> > > Build
> > > crew leader.
> > > We buildt a 62 Chevy Bell Air.. with 2 two motors from Shawn Lawless's
> > > dragster.
> > > And We have better top speeds With Gp than with the Mg Car.
> > >
> > > I think Rod had a 98mph But I think MG had a better ET with a 14.53 at
> > > 93.33
> > > mph.
> > >
> > > So a VERY good argument would be the Gone Postal and the Monster
> > > Garage
> > > Car
> > > shoot out.
> > >
> > > Lots of Old lead VS spaning new Lion.
> > >
> > > I would root for Gp.. it has more of my blood in it. And I know how to
> > > make
> > > it Faster.
> > >
> > > Madman
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tom Shay"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:13 PM
> > > Subject: Re: My thoughts on Gone Postal and the quest for data
> > >
> > >
> > >> While others are sharing their thoughts about Gone Postal, I'll share
> > >> some
> > >> of mine.
> > >>
> > >> The idea behind creating Gone Postal was to create a farce for the
> > >> Monster
> > >> Garage TV show. Converting an old mail truck into a drag racer was a
> > >> totally
> > >> absurd idea and impossible. I think I can safely say impossible
> because
> > > if
> > >> the team who built it couldn't make Gone Postal into a drag racer,
> > >> then
> > >> nobody could. I was surprised, impressed and pleased that GP ran as
> well
> > >> as it did.
> > >>
> > >> So, what's to become of GP? My guess is that its racing days are
> over.
> > >> Maybe now is a good time to share ideas for GP, the retired race
> > >> truck.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/433 - Release Date:
> 8/30/2006
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date:
> > 8/30/2006
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
> rates.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:02 AM
Subject: RE: Strange EV on Ebay
> It is not an NEV. This is a Mercedes Smart Car. They sell them in Canada
> with diesel engines. Quite capable of 60mph, and allowed on all roads,
> highways and freeways.
>
> Now whether it is an ebay scam or not...
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
As for a scam, one should consider...
These are European pix of a car that's in (what is it, Kansas?). It has zero
miles. The *only* importer of the car is Zap, and this isn't a Zap car. Zap
sells these cars for up to $30K, with gas engines only, and this car has no
reserve. (It was $7500 when I looked.) OK... truck a $25 to $30K car to
Kansas, yank out the driveline and make it a 55MPH, 75 mile range vehicle
(advanced batts needless to say) and sell it for 1/5th the cost you have
invested in it???
Yep, makes great sense to me. But someone will Western Union him funds. It's
just too good a buy otherwise.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
John Wayland wrote:
> No, what was originally two separate motors is now one motor with the
> best qualities of two motors.
Back-to-back, belly-to-belly at the Zombie jamboree!
I am so sorry. I've been dying to sing it for months.
> Credit is due to all who were involved, with the master motor builder
> title certainly going to Jim Husted...the man's work is artistry!
Jim, if you were ever a journeyman, this must be your masterwork. It's
catapulted you to stardom on the list.
Jude "Spark Lad" Anthony
Hey Jude, all
Thanks but I'm just getting started 8^P
I was telling John at the LNN last month that I'd like to tear into the
Siamese8 this winter to add some improvements. I had the chance to have a good
look at it last month in a 1 year birthday kind of view. It was fun to compare
what I did then to what I'm doing now, being I was soooo green back then, LMAO!
In all reality I couldn't have had a better mad ass EV'er walk into my life
than Wayland! He truly changed my world, for better or worse though has yet to
be written 8^P
I wonder where I'd be if the damn thing had exploded on the first run OMG 8^0
If you factor in that it's a prototype it's really amazing. See this is
where Wayland and me are opposite, I hate to break stuff, if you break it I
feel I didn't do my job right kinda thing (I guess knowing his motto made me
work extra hard 8^) Anyway there's been some fun stuff happening in motorland
but I have to keep a lid on things until debuted 8^) I guess my goal is to
look back and say, "not bad for a beginner"
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:08 PM
Subject: "The Truth About Electric Cars"
The Truth About Electric Cars
Article in the October 2006 edition
Mother Earth News
Tell us a little about what's in the story. The October issue isn't
available on line yet.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone know of this ?
http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/15/technology/disruptors_eestor.biz2/index.
htm?source=yahoo_quote
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Anyone know of this ?
>
>
http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/15/technology/disruptors_eestor.biz2/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote
>
Didn't you read several dozen posts about this a few days ago? Those
engineering notes will tell you the whys and wherefores of capacitors
in general and these 3500V ultracaps specifically. Check the archives.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:34 PM 9/20/2006, Michael Perry wrote:
I've never figured out if it was defective batteries, a defective charging
scheme, or perhaps their heavy draw on batts that caused this,
All of the above have happened with Sparrows.
of the folks, to tell if they ever actually tested their batts when mileage
dropped off below 20 miles. From reading the posts, I got the impression
these folks were fairly knowledgeable in EVs, but never saw any other person
post about ways to check batts, chargers, and so forth... just in finding
patches to *not* repair an existing problem.
Many have discussed ways of testing their batteries on the Sparrow list.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these BE systems only work when you have
a pack of batts that are reasonably healthy. They aren't going to report a
bad batt in the string or a bad charger, correct?
Depends on the unit.
PowerCheq - you can only tell a battery is bad if the units on
both sides are constantly pumping power into it.
Rudman Regs - You have to watch for the Low Voltage indicator
during driving (difficult since they are on the regs) and/or the
regulator behavior during charging. (again difficult)
(I got around the above problems with MKII regs by extending
their LEDs to a panel in the cabin.)
I've been building (temporarily on hiatus due to shop fire) a battery
monitor that will tell you when a battery goes low. It doesn't do
any kind of balancing or regulation, just tells you when there is a problem.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An interesting report on GM's new electric. Yes, it is hyrdrogen fuel
cell:
http://www.autoextremist.com/page6.shtml#table
This site does not archive their material (at least not in a way that is
accessible, so next Wednesday that will link to something else, so I'll
excerpt a lot for "Fair use" -
This time around, GM Vice Chairman and chief product guru Bob Lutz gave
clear marching orders to the Sequel development team lead by Larry
Burns, VP of research, development and strategic planning: Make the new
car an effortless transition for any driver - in other words, you
shouldn't be challenged by the technology in some off-putting way. And
they succeeded with flying colors. The Sequel (branded a Chevrolet, by
the way) is a 4,700 lb. crossover that meets all current vehicle safety
standards, while featuring GM's latest iteration of its most advanced
technological systems, including its highly regarded hydrogen fuel-cell
technology, lithium-ion batteries, and "by-wire" electronic steering and
braking controls. GM says the Sequel represents the most advanced and
sophisticated technology ever applied to an automobile, and I don't
doubt them for a moment. There may be other companies with advanced
fuel-cell programs, including Honda and Toyota (BMW has focused their
efforts on "transitional" technology - burning hydrogen in internal
combustion engines), but no automobile manufacturer in the world has
ever combined and integrated this technology in such seamless fashion in
an automobile that could easily thrive on the highways in any real-world
driving situation. The Sequel delivers a 0-60 mph acceleration time in
the neighborhood of 10 seconds - not great, but for a crossover vehicle
of its size it's certainly adequate. But the range is what's most
impressive - a full 300 miles between "fill-ups" of hydrogen. And it
delivers zero emissions in the process. What is it like to drive? It's a
non-event, and that's exactly the point. In a matter of moments, you're
going down the road as if you're in any car - a highly agile and nicely
responsive one at that. There are no weird tendencies and no jarring
compromises necessary that would suggest to you that you're having to
make some sort of sacrifice to achieve zero emissions. Anyone with a
driver's license could step into the Sequel and go about their daily
business with no effort or thought whatsoever.
....
A persistent link to a more detailed story:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/09/11/021551.html
“Four years ago, our chairman and CEO, Rick Wagoner, challenged us to
completely rethink the automobile,” Burns said. “With the Chevy
Sequel, we have now met Rick’s challenge by reinventing the automobile
and making it real. We’ve proven a new DNA for vehicles that is viable
for the future.”
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If 58mph is 3000 rpm it seems that that might be a good place for freeway
crusing. However starting on a hill from a stop might be another problem.
I'm hoping the 120v system with an L91 will be sufficent. Certainly this
has been used in autos. If I have heating problems I may have to use a
smaller rear tire. Maybe the advance on the L91 will have to be done to
sqeeze the most torque from the motor. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: 3.4 to 1 ratio. 70 inch circumference tire
> The formula for calculating mph, rpm, ratio, tire size:
>
>
> Rpm x WC
> Mph = ----------
> Ratio x 1056
>
> Where WC is the Wheel Circumference
> Ratio is the the overall gear ratios.
> 1056 is a constant
>
>
> Therefore:
>
>
> Mph = (3000 x 70)/(3.4 x 1056) = 58.4
>
>
> Lets say you want a maximum speed of 100 mph at a motor speed of 6000 rpm,
> then the ratio would be:
>
>
> Rpm x WD
> Ratio = ---------
> Mph x 1056
>
>
> Ratio = (6000 x 70)/(100 x 1056) = 3.97
>
>
> I am running a 90 inch circumference tire with a 5.57:1 gear ratio which
> gets me to 92 mph at 6000 rpm.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 3:01 PM
> Subject: 3.4 to 1 ratio. 70 inch circumference tire
>
>
> > Tire is 22 inchs tall. Ratio is 3.4 to 1 Looks like 60 mph should be
> > 3000
> > rpm on the motor. 905 wheel spins per mile x 3.4 should give the motor
> > rpm.
> > Did I do this right. I could get a smaller back tire Lawrence
> > Rhodes....
> >
> >
>
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--- Begin Message ---
The new curb weight. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Plumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: Battery weight / Car weight ratio
> I've read that the battery weight should be about 1/3 of the car weight.
> However is that 1/3 of Gross weight or Curb Weight?
>
> Thanks.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
>
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1/3 of curb weight. The _total_ should not exceed
GVWR.
--- Joe Plumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've read that the battery weight should be about
> 1/3 of the car weight.
> However is that 1/3 of Gross weight or Curb Weight?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and
> Microsoft LifeCams
>
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about we make a advertising video for the Tesla like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJF687VS0M ? This short film is famous amoung
sportscar aficionados - I have heard that the soundtrack of the Ferrari V-12 is
unmistakeable, but I wouldn't know! Doing the same with a near-silent Tesla over
the San Francisco hills and through the downtown intersections in the early
morning with some wisps of fog on the ground would be awesome - probably hear
the tires hitting the road more than than the controller or motor! Of course,
besides a Tesla equipped with a low-mounted, high-res camera, you'd need a
professional driver who knows the area and early am traffic patterns like the
back of his/her hand. The end of the French video has the guy meeting his
girlfriend - we could be more enlightened and have a lady driver come around to
meet her boyfriend.
Anyone know if JB has any pull with the PR department?
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--- Begin Message ---
> The Sequel (branded a Chevrolet, by
> the way) is a 4,700 lb. crossover that meets all current vehicle safety
> standards, while featuring GM's latest iteration of its most advanced
> technological systems, including its highly regarded hydrogen fuel-cell
> technology, lithium-ion batteries, and "by-wire" electronic steering
and
> braking controls. GM says the Sequel represents the most advanced and
> sophisticated technology ever applied to an automobile, and I don't
> doubt them for a moment. There may be other companies with advanced
> fuel-cell programs, including Honda and Toyota (BMW has focused their
> efforts on "transitional" technology - burning hydrogen in internal
> combustion engines), but no automobile manufacturer in the world has
> ever combined and integrated this technology in such seamless
fashion in
> an automobile that could easily thrive on the highways in any
real-world
> driving situation. The Sequel delivers a 0-60 mph acceleration time in
> the neighborhood of 10 seconds - not great, but for a crossover vehicle
> of its size it's certainly adequate. But the range is what's most
> impressive - a full 300 miles between "fill-ups" of hydrogen. And it
> delivers zero emissions in the process. What is it like to drive?
It's a
> non-event, and that's exactly the point. In a matter of moments, you're
> going down the road as if you're in any car - a highly agile and nicely
> responsive one at that. There are no weird tendencies and no jarring
> compromises necessary that would suggest to you that you're having to
> make some sort of sacrifice to achieve zero emissions. Anyone with a
> driver's license could step into the Sequel and go about their daily
> business with no effort or thought whatsoever.
>
Here's a hypothetical: this car has a small lithium pack (I suppose
for load balancing), so why not a full-sized pack and high current
charger? The volume of the hydrogen tanks alone is more than enough
room (yes, I have visited the GM site and perused the Sequel's specs).
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--- Begin Message ---
Thats exactly what I'm doing too. Except I just started and don't have the
website yet. Still working on getting at least a list
serve so members can talk to each other. We have 4 EV's on the road that I
know of and 2 or 3 in process. I have a
battery/starter shop with warehouse space, a recycle center that gets old telco
gear and other industrial electronics, and just
today a hot rod shop gave me his card when I was at the pick-your-part looking
for an N case 9". I stopped by the guys shop and
whoooaaa man. Nice cars and nice work. Custom Hot Rod, Limousine and 4X4
work. Him and a buddy were thinking of doing an
electric Hot Rod so I gave him all the literature I had in my folder I was
collecting for my Pinto project. He's psyched so I'm
hoping he'll bite off a good project or two and bring along some AkEVA support
to boot.
But you're right. This cooperative mentality is what will make it, or at least
drive the market so that "You Can Buy One"....Just
go to .... www. made-up-EVA.com :-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Ralph
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:20 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Who Killed the Electric Car in Utica NY
>
>
> "How to buy one?"
>
> I have been working on a community project to answer that question. If there
> is a local chapter of the EAA in your
> area, get together with the chapter and its webmeister. What you want to do
> is create a page of *local* resources-
> people who have done conversions, local garages that will do the work, where
> to get conversion kits, and where to get
> actual finished EVs- that sort of thing.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I followed Ron Archers message to the San Diego EAA website and went thru some
of their links, good info about Ball park approximations, costs, EV design, EV
simulation, chek them out at
http://home.att.net/~NCSDCA/EVAoSD/
But what was really amazing was that they have had workshops where they
converted VW's in EV's. Just fantastic. First was a kit by ElectroAutomotive,
2nd was components only. Here is a link
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5148280482272042028.
What a great idea. Let's have more of them, think of all the questions that we
could answer during an installation.
Now while you are there chek out the other EV videos, the Telsa stuff if you
want to, but look at the 'Gas Free Car', (does that red porsche, or engine
config look familiar...)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909632706885280284
the 'Catablade Electrick Concept Car'
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3109497682377423143
"FutureCrusH' if you haven't already seen it (long, 32 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3974264721033016884
'Smart Diablo and Ferrari'.... guess who wins...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5292341112610385808
Then for the sheer fun of it look at
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1647492853543566084,
a 747 landing in EXTREME cross wind.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I know a place in town I'll try to get a pic tomorrow. Oh to have a
plug in every parking space. :-)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lock Hughes
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:34 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: charging stations :-) lining the parking lots
>
>
> I was looking for a pic a while back, of parking lots lined with
> plugins (for heaters, but suggestive of how an EV charging lot might
> look like.)
>
> I was less than excited to stumble across "Intelligent Controllers"
> being marketed to lot owners as energy saving devices that switch the
> heater outlets on and off based on time and ambient temps
> :(
> Example seen here:
> http://tinyurl.com/e7j69
>
> Lock
> Toronto
> Human/Electric Hybrid
>
> --- MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Not so many block heaters in Anchorage as I would like, however one
> > of our members just got his truck on the road for the first time
> > yesterday in Fairbanks and they have block heaters (I mean charging
> > stations :-) lining the parking lots.
> > Mike
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was an awesome video, I wish I could drive that far in a city without
having to stop, although that drive would have been
more than my pack could handle, most likely.
But you're right, duplicate that video with a Tesla and that pesky ferrari
engine wouldn't have to bother anyone. All you'd hear
is tire squealing.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:22 PM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
>
>
> How about we make a advertising video for the Tesla like this:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJF687VS0M ? This short film is famous amoung
> sportscar aficionados - I have heard that the soundtrack of the Ferrari V-12
> is
> unmistakeable, but I wouldn't know! Doing the same with a near-silent Tesla
> over
> the San Francisco hills and through the downtown intersections in the early
> morning with some wisps of fog on the ground would be awesome - probably hear
> the tires hitting the road more than than the controller or motor! Of course,
> besides a Tesla equipped with a low-mounted, high-res camera, you'd need a
> professional driver who knows the area and early am traffic patterns like the
> back of his/her hand. The end of the French video has the guy meeting his
> girlfriend - we could be more enlightened and have a lady driver come around
> to
> meet her boyfriend.
>
> Anyone know if JB has any pull with the PR department?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For more info on the film
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%27%C3%A9tait_un_rendez-vous
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169173/maindetails
In summary, the film was made with a steady-cam attached to the front
bumper of a Mercedes.
The Ferrari sounds were dubbed in later.
I guess it wouldn't take much to dub in EV sounds to the footage :-)
(See http://www.proev.com/ for some examples of EV in-car filming)
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
>
>
> How about we make a advertising video for the Tesla like this:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJF687VS0M ? This short film
> is famous amoung
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Motorcycles are also designed now that hold fuel in their frame rails.
I was thinking you could pack many small batteries in many shapes and
end up with a lot of battery power spread over alarger area.
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 6:31 pm, Chris Tromley wrote:
Otmar wrote:
I've long been kicking around an idea of making frame rails into
batteries
to save weight in an EV. (like killing two birds with one stone) and I
was
wondering if anyone here knew of any examples of the powertrain being
used
as a structural component?
Like a battery as a frame member type of thing? or composite body
panels
that generate a current like a battery? I don't know how powerful of a
battery could be made in this manner but the potential weight savings
might
make it workable.
anyone ever heard of such a beast?
Hi Otmar,
In the ICE world, using the engine as a structural member is very
common. Many current motorcycles use the engine as a partially
stressed member. Tony Foale made several customs using a standard big
Japanese engine and attaching little sub frames to the head and
gearbox for the fork and swingarm - a fully stressed engine. Many F1
cars use a fully stressed engine too.
The common thread here is using the cast aluminum engine block and
trans case to carry chassis loads in addition to
combustion/reciprocating/rotating loads. Easy to do when designing
from scratch, even doable as a retrofit.
You're talking about something a bit different. Castings are great at
carrying loads. Batteries are a bit more of a challenge. They are
usually made of of many layers of different materials, not unlike
composites. The problem is that what works really well as an
electrolyte is gonna really suck as a binding agent for a composite.
The mechanical requirements of a battery electrode with likely
conflict with the requirements of a reinforcing matrix. The battery's
electrical structure doesn't lend itself to being a load-bearing
structure.
There's still a lot of merit to your idea though. There is a need for
structural strength in the case of the battery. There's no reason you
couldn't design the case to take an additional load, just like an
engine casting. I can envision a frame rail that could be filled with
a stack of fairly flimsy cells - basically a very long battery that
also supports the car. The backbone frame of the Sundancer, stuffed
with golf cart batteries, is nothing but a fully stressed battery box.
I can also see a stressed-skin composite vehicle where the entire skin
has cellular recesses, each loaded with a thin, flexible, replaceable
battery. (Anyone who thinks that would be a lot of wires in the skin
of the vehicle has never seen a modern airplane without its interior.)
I'd be interested in hearing more about your ideas.
Chris
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
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