EV Digest 5895
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Another EV grin and another EV on the road WAS: why won't my dang Raptor
work
by "Erik Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: The ultimate Tesla Motors promo video
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Sparrow efficiency, was Re: Powercheq
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
by Artur Kubik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: New GM electric car
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Simple BMS, was Re: Powercheq
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Strange EV on Ebay
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) AlaskaEVA Yahoo Group
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: "The Truth About Electric Cars"
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Building A Performace EV
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Sparrow efficiency, was Re: Powercheq
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: New GM electric car
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: newbie question - gears in or out?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Chelsea Sexton at Maryland Opening of "WKTEC?"
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Contactors holding shut after strong current
by "EV2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Advancing a Prestolite MTA 4001 48V compound motor
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) vacuum reservoir assembly
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Electric Beetle at UK's Santa Pod this summer?
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Strange EV on Ebay
by "Jay Caplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Took the first ride around the block tonight! The alignment is terrible and
the brakes are dragging, BUT the top was down and it is a beautiful night to
ride in a car with only a quiet hum.
With the help of Chris Robison and Mark Farver with AustinEV, we found what
was killing the raptor in precharge. I had hooked the high voltage input to
the DC/DC up to the controller side of the contactor with the intention that
it would only turn on when the car is on. It turns out that's enough of a
draw that the precharge never finishes in time, and the Raptor throws an
error. Removed the DC/DC and the contactor pulled in like it was meant to.
Thank you to everyone on this list, this is an unmeasurable resource when
trying to learn the ins and outs of EVs. Tonight was a real blast, even
though the alignment is out enough that the car slows down on a downhill...
Still a few issues to tend to, but it will be running for the Fredericksburg
Renewable Energy Roundup!
Erik =D <----- EV grin
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/823
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Subject: RE: Help with Raptor 600 - trying to fix for Renewable Energy
show this weekend
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:16:53 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: < [email protected]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Chris Robison wrote:
> I've posted his original full-resolution images here:
>
> http://ohmbre.org/temp_upload
Excellent; thanks!
The trace in the first photo is the one I recall as carrying the pack
voltage to the precharge circuitry end of the PCB. This would be the one I
would try fixing first.
The contact at the end of the capacitor (C15?) in the second photo should
probably be cleaned up, and the long trace along the edge of the PCB might
well benfit from repair also.
It is difficult to see if the traces are damaged or just lifting off the
PCB, or if it is the confromal coating that is damaged.
> I don't know if it's helpful, but we did end up repairing the
> wires to the Raptor's remote display, and as we figured, the
> red light was the broken wire. So, the moment you turn the
> key, you hear the fan spin up, and all three LEDs on the
> display light up solid red, green and yellow.
Have you read the manual? It says:
"If all of the LEDs on the remote illuminate at once, the controller has
detected a hazardous fault condition and shut down. Either the unit is
miswired, and the capacitor precharge circuit is not able to precharge the
internal filter caps, or an overtemperature condition exists within the
controller. The fan will run in this state, so wait ½ a minute, then turn
the power off and back on. If this occurs during a new installation, check
the high power wiring."
It seems most likely that there is a problem with the precharge wiring,
however, given that you have evidence of corrosion on the PCB, you might
also want to check/clean the connector pins that attach the logic PCB to the
power stage. These may be faulty and could result in the micro thinking
there is a overtemperature condition (the temp sensor is on the power stage)
when there really isn't one.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> For more info on the film
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%27%C3%A9tait_un_rendez-vous
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169173/maindetails
>
> In summary, the film was made with a steady-cam attached to the front
> bumper of a Mercedes.
> The Ferrari sounds were dubbed in later.
>
> I guess it wouldn't take much to dub in EV sounds to the footage :-)
> (See http://www.proev.com/ for some examples of EV in-car filming)
>
> Mark
>
A Mercedes?! Man, you crushed my romantic vision ;(
Let's see that an actual Tesla runs that steady-cam around S.F.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While it's deffinitely ideal to put them on brand new batteries to prevent them
from becomming a problem, there's no reason you couldn't put them on a used
battery pack. I have a few months experience with PowerCheqs, I was helping
co-develop a drop in system for NEV's to extend their battery life. In the end
this never happened because we figured no one would want to spend the money for
the regs (even though it would have paid for itself over time).
I had them put on a pack of flooded Trojan 12 volt batteries in my GEM (mainly
to get the wireing harness made) and we had some pretty significant results
even with them on 6 month old flooded batteries. Before there was probably
about a 1/3 volt range between the batteries, after using the regs for a few
months they were within .1 volt of eachother.
I think if it's a matter of an imballance on the pack and not that of you've
let it go so long that there's no regaining the active material there is hope
for some improvement. The PowerCheqs deffinitely do a great job of equalizing.
I'm possibly going to go with gel or agm batteries to replace the floodeds in
my Saturn eventually, and I'm really hard pressed on whether I'll be using Rich
Rudman's regulators or PowerCheq's.
After monitoring the Sparrow group (when it was novel) I saw a lot of the
folks there go with PowerCheqs. It looked to me (from postings of mileage
drop) that some were installed *after* the range had dropped off. To me (a
relative novice who'd only fried a couple packs) it seemed they were more
interested in spending a few hundred bucks, than in finding the cause.
I've never figured out if it was defective batteries, a defective charging
scheme, or perhaps their heavy draw on batts that caused this, which may be
in not having a proper minimum voltage cut off? I didn't hear back from any
of the folks, to tell if they ever actually tested their batts when mileage
dropped off below 20 miles. From reading the posts, I got the impression
these folks were fairly knowledgeable in EVs, but never saw any other person
post about ways to check batts, chargers, and so forth... just in finding
patches to *not* repair an existing problem.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these BE systems only work when you have
a pack of batts that are reasonably healthy. They aren't going to report a
bad batt in the string or a bad charger, correct?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:36 PM
Subject: Sparrow efficiency, was Re: Powercheq
> > Well, I recently received my 3rd Sparrow.
> > This is the 3rd one with a dead pack.
> > This is the 3rd one with PowerCheq's installed.
> > As far as I can tell, one VERY IMPORTANT item with powercheq's is to
> > never leave the vehicle off the charger for more than a day or
> > two! They are always drawing power from the pack.
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about notebook at picture? Have you any kind of software working as
BMS during charging?
regards
Artur
Philippe Borges napisał(a):
I'm using synchroforce CXP III in my electric scooter
(60V400A Lynch motor 48V500A Alltrax 36V100Ah NIMH actually)
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ItalvelEVolutionA%20008.jpg
but polychain killer is synchrochain model from contitech
http://www.contitech.de/ct/contitech/themen/produkte/antriebsriemen/industrie/industrie_e.html
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: source for drive pulleys and belts
I hadn't heard of these -- have you used them?
Philippe Borges wrote:
just to let you know contitech synchropower belts are promisive Gates
"killer"
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
--
============================================================
Uniwersytet Jagielloński
Centrum Innowacji, Transferu Technologii i Rozwoju Uniwersytetu (CITTRU)
ul.Czapskich 4,p.107; 31-110 Kraków
tel.: +126633837,
faks: +126633831
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http: www.cittru.uj.edu.pl, www.akcent.malopolska.pl
=============================================================
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--- Begin Message ---
and those that lose on bidding will receive a few dozen fake "second chance"
emails trying to scam them out of money
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: Strange EV on Ebay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:02 AM
Subject: RE: Strange EV on Ebay
It is not an NEV. This is a Mercedes Smart Car. They sell them in Canada
with diesel engines. Quite capable of 60mph, and allowed on all roads,
highways and freeways.
Now whether it is an ebay scam or not...
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
As for a scam, one should consider...
These are European pix of a car that's in (what is it, Kansas?). It has
zero
miles. The *only* importer of the car is Zap, and this isn't a Zap car.
Zap
sells these cars for up to $30K, with gas engines only, and this car has
no
reserve. (It was $7500 when I looked.) OK... truck a $25 to $30K car to
Kansas, yank out the driveline and make it a 55MPH, 75 mile range vehicle
(advanced batts needless to say) and sell it for 1/5th the cost you have
invested in it???
Yep, makes great sense to me. But someone will Western Union him funds.
It's
just too good a buy otherwise.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hahahahuuuu-sob...
> Anyone with a driver's license could step into the Sequel
> and go about their daily business with no effort or thought whatsoever.
*If* there would be a place to fill up on Hydrogen.
*If* the price of Hydrogen would not be twice that of gas
as soon as it's mass produced (probably never).
*If* the price of a car with Fool cells would not be $1 mio or thereabouts.
I think we've been down this path often enough to know it by now:
Hydrogen fuel cells are dead. They only need to lie down, as
someone behind the curtain is holding them upright.
If they pour so much effort and energy in Electric Vehicles,
can we get some without the Hydrogen part that is not viable anyway?
As suggested many times: a bigger pack and we have a winner.
In a couple of years an upgrade to EEstor and the only place
where we will use oil is in lubrication, plastic production
and those kind of things, not burn it to move a vehicle.
Just my point of view here and a couple of respected fuel cell
researchers, who already stopped all activity on Hydrogen cells.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of John Norton
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: New GM electric car
An interesting report on GM's new electric. Yes, it is hyrdrogen fuel
cell:
http://www.autoextremist.com/page6.shtml#table
This site does not archive their material (at least not in a way that is
accessible, so next Wednesday that will link to something else, so I'll
excerpt a lot for "Fair use" -
This time around, GM Vice Chairman and chief product guru Bob Lutz gave
clear marching orders to the Sequel development team lead by Larry
Burns, VP of research, development and strategic planning: Make the new
car an effortless transition for any driver - in other words, you
shouldn't be challenged by the technology in some off-putting way. And
they succeeded with flying colors. The Sequel (branded a Chevrolet, by
the way) is a 4,700 lb. crossover that meets all current vehicle safety
standards, while featuring GM's latest iteration of its most advanced
technological systems, including its highly regarded hydrogen fuel-cell
technology, lithium-ion batteries, and "by-wire" electronic steering and
braking controls. GM says the Sequel represents the most advanced and
sophisticated technology ever applied to an automobile, and I don't
doubt them for a moment. There may be other companies with advanced
fuel-cell programs, including Honda and Toyota (BMW has focused their
efforts on "transitional" technology - burning hydrogen in internal
combustion engines), but no automobile manufacturer in the world has
ever combined and integrated this technology in such seamless fashion in
an automobile that could easily thrive on the highways in any real-world
driving situation. The Sequel delivers a 0-60 mph acceleration time in
the neighborhood of 10 seconds - not great, but for a crossover vehicle
of its size it's certainly adequate. But the range is what's most
impressive - a full 300 miles between "fill-ups" of hydrogen. And it
delivers zero emissions in the process. What is it like to drive? It's a
non-event, and that's exactly the point. In a matter of moments, you're
going down the road as if you're in any car - a highly agile and nicely
responsive one at that. There are no weird tendencies and no jarring
compromises necessary that would suggest to you that you're having to
make some sort of sacrifice to achieve zero emissions. Anyone with a
driver's license could step into the Sequel and go about their daily
business with no effort or thought whatsoever.
....
A persistent link to a more detailed story:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/09/11/021551.html
“Four years ago, our chairman and CEO, Rick Wagoner, challenged us to
completely rethink the automobile,” Burns said. “With the Chevy
Sequel, we have now met Rick’s challenge by reinventing the automobile
and making it real. We’ve proven a new DNA for vehicles that is viable
for the future.”
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do not know if it's the state of the art, but I opened an
older DELL CP laptop battery (14.4V 3000mAh, 8 Li-Ion cells in
buddypairs) and the 2 PCBs in that pack used a total of 7 ICs.
4 on the charger board and 3 on the BMS board.
There were a handful of transistors and many passive components
and the charger board had 2 crystal oscillators as well.
The BMS was connected to each intersection between the 4 pairs
(5 points in total)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Simple BMS, was Re: Powercheq
> Seems active battery balancing would be nice but rather complicated.
> If you are one of the lucky few with lithium batteries, would you even
> need this?
Well only if you want those expensive batteries to live more than a day or
two. LiIon batteries will self destruct rather violently if overcharged.
Even the RC crowd, who normally only use two or three cells in series
(rather than dozens like an EV needs), have discovered that individual
cell ballancing is critical to getting a decent life span out of the
batteries.
The good news is that tons of people are working on battery management
systems for lithium cells and many of them can be scaled up to EV size
packs. Many of these BMS use very few components and I think some are
even single chip designs. This should eventually result in an economical
EV size BMS for lithium batteries.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To me, this looks like a Chinese copy of the Smart car,
without the german engineering - a kind of souped up golf cart
or "bubble car" that is still offered on Ebay from time to time.
A Chinese company Chery has been taken on before by GM Daewoo
when they found a copy-cat version of the Matiz, so why not
DaimlerChrysler's Smart copied?
Here are the differences I see with the official Smart:
- headlights are different than electric Smart, looks like old styling
- doors and handles are different
- no Mercedes sign on the hood, looks more like upside-down Daewoo sign
- no Smart sign on back. It has five characters, but looks different.
- rear lower spoiler is diffrerent than on Smart
- chairs are different than any Smart I have seen
- wipers on Smart fold blades on top of each other, here they go the same
direction
And so on and so on... It is likely that this car will be under
attack from DaimlerChrysler because of infringements on their
Smart styling and it may or not be inferior engineering, but
when you buy one, you are left with most likely a unique car
that cannot be made any more (= no support), unknown engineering
and safety, even unknown if it can be registered as it may not
satisfy US safety, so you end up with an "estate car" in the
best case. Worst case this is one of the prototype production
units that needed to be scrapped as they could not legally
make them and somebody salvaged the illegal products....
There can be many reasons why this is such a cheap car, even
with the car being real.
Still I would not send any money before doing a good deal of
research and due diligence and when the seller backs out of
communication, that is usually not a good sign.
Be careful out there!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dr. Michael Polsinelli
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Strange EV on Ebay
I sent a message to him earlier asking for more information. The reply
was "did you get a chance to read the desciption box?". I emailed again
and no response.
Also, I think that David is right in that it is a Smart ForTwo.
Here are some pictures:
http://tinyurl.com/fkzek
http://tinyurl.com/emzcl
the door looks just a little different.
~Michael
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hello Michael
>
> You would have to send a question to seller. I did not go though the whole
> auction information because I don't believe this has been crash tested and
> approved for import into the US to be anything other than a NEV. Looks
like a
> battery charger in the back floor. If this could do 55 miles an hour it
would be
> all over the web sites. He also has it listed as an automatic the seller
may
> just not know what he is selling. I do like his location United States
> United States.
>
> If anyone is really interested in this please send them a question to
seller.
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 9/19/2006 8:30:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Don,
>
> Then why does it say 55mph on the specs?
>
> ~Michael
>
> It is a NEV neighborhood electric vehicle. It does not look like a scam
but
> nothing to get excited about either. A street legal golf cart lights
wipers
> horn turnsignals. It cannot go over 25 miles an hour and not on roads
with
> posted speed limits of 35 mph.
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 9/19/2006 7:10:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
<http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/post?postID=xOKFmAhIBeo
Da
>
NRwBm6SHlywMwB0Iy0hetImvte4OCUai9YGAaWVmucVM97ZMEK2fveb_GAyh2zrjcv-6MzCIUZY>
> writes:
>
> I've decided that this is a scam. The seller has two available, only
> wants cashiers check or money order, and the same person with zero
> feedback is bidding on both.
>
> Dr. Polsinelli wrote:
>
>> Number 270030658247
>>
>> Anyone have any information on this? Think it's street legal?
>>
>> *http://tinyurl.com/rkbk9*
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9/21/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
To me, this looks like a Chinese copy of the Smart car,
without the german engineering - a kind of souped up golf cart
or "bubble car" that is still offered on Ebay from time to time.
A Chinese company Chery has been taken on before by GM Daewoo
when they found a copy-cat version of the Matiz, so why not
DaimlerChrysler's Smart copied?
Well spotted. The photos also show Chinese signs and Beijing 2008
banners. It's a copy. Whether the auction is a scam or not, I don't
know..
By the way, those Matiz copies are actually pretty good and almost
indistinguisable from the real thing, apart from the badge.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI I just started a Yahoo Group for the AlaskaEVA chapter of the Electric Auto
Association. Feel free to chime in. We are
looking forward to lively discussions. While this group will focus mainly on
local activities I will urge all the members to also
join this EVlist. It is no doubt full of great insight and knowledge.
Thanks
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:37:15 -0700, you wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matthew Milliron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:08 PM
>Subject: "The Truth About Electric Cars"
>
>
>>
Why we need electric cars Sorry I have dain bramage.
>> Article in the October 2006 edition
>> Mother Earth News
>
>Tell us a little about what's in the story. The October issue isn't
>available on line yet.
>
>
In no particular order.
Graph with cost analysis. From gas to hybrid to electric. Cost per
day/year, and C02 emissions. Another graph with C02 reductions
potential. Pictures of crushed EV1s. Mentions efficiency. Author
(Steve Heckeroth) has converted 12 vehicles to electric and charges
with solar. 5 pages under viewpoint. Talks about how the auto
companys have balked at producing electric cars. History of electric
cars. Plug in hybrids. If you are a regular reader of this list, all
most all the info is not new. Joe Q. Public will find it new.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmmm..... sounds like one of those match made in heaven things....
or is it water-electricity, ac-dc, fire-gas, matter-antimatter
Anyway the Jim-John connection benefits us ALL.
JOHN!!! You're not trying hard enough!!!! BREAK the damn thing. Jim has all
but challenged you here!!!
JIM!!! NICE WORK!!! Try to stay ahead of John's carnage!!
My turn for a LMAO!! BWAAHAHAHA
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
> Jim Husted wrote....
> I wonder where I'd be if the damn thing had exploded on the first run
OMG
> 8^0 If you factor in that it's a prototype it's really amazing. See
this
> is where Wayland and me are opposite, I hate to break stuff, if you break
it
> I feel I didn't do my job right kinda thing (I guess knowing his motto
made
> me work extra hard 8^)
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
________________________________________________
Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
I have to disagree, Lee. There's nothing wrong with alternately series and
shunt coils. Such a motor will run just fine. I've seen motors like this;
they are a bit unusual but not rare.
For the special case where you want both shunt and series fields to be
the same strength, it works fine. But, I think this is a small minority
of actual applications.
It's much more likely that you want a strong series motor with a weak
shunt field to limit the maximum rpm or to get a little regen.
Or, you want a strong shunt field to use as a generator or
constant-speed motor, with a weak series field to compensate it for load
current variations.
In either of these cases, using only half the winding space for your
main field means a less efficient motor that runs hotter and overheats
sooner.
It works... but as I said, it is cheap, not good.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Michael Perry wrote:
Sparrow group... a lot of PowerCheqs... installed *after* the range
had dropped off... they seemed more interested in spending a few
hundred bucks than finding the cause.
This is often the case. I think it's Car Mechanic's Syndrome -- keep
changing things (and spending money) until the problem goes away (or you
run out of money). :-)
It can be more helpful to make some measurements, and record the data.
Then you can do some detective work, to figure out exactly what is going
on. Then you have a better chance of making the *right* changes that may
actually fix the problem.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but these BE systems only work when
you have a pack of battries that are reasonably healthy.
The older and more out of balance the batteries get, the MORE you need a
balancing system. They obviously can't *fix* a bad battery, but they can
reduce the symptoms so you can continue to drive with the damaged
battery a little longer.
I think what happens is that Joe Klutz starts with nice new
well-balanced batteries. He see no need for balancing, and so doesn't
install anything. A year later, the batteries are seriously out of
balance and failing. So *then* he adds a balancing system (one that's
cheaper than a new set of batteries). It helps, but can't fix the
problem. Half of them die trying to balance hopelessly bad batteries. So
Joe decides balancers are worthless; he buys new batteries, and leaves
the balancers off. The cycle repeats (often with a new owner :-)
They aren't going to report a bad battery in the string or a bad
charger, correct?
They certainly can! But the displays on most balancers are pretty
arcane. They don't say "battery #5 bad" or "check charger". Instead, you
have to notice that it spends a lot more time on battery #5, or the
reported voltage doesn't look right.
EV instrumentation certainly is a weak point. Most EVs have few or no
indicators for any critical conditions. Or, they have voltmeters and
ammeters, that in the hands of a skilled expert, can *imply* what is
going on. Hobbyists don't tend to put in any instruments. Engineers tend
to put in instruments that only measure data; they don't interpret it.
So we have "pack voltage is 105v" instead of "105v on a 144v pack is
DEAD! Stop driving, you fool!"
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
...they succeeded with flying colors. The Sequel... is a 4,700 lbs
crossover that meets all current vehicle safety standards...
while featuring GM's latest iteration of its most advanced
technological systems, including its highly regarded hydrogen
fuel-cell technology... 0-60 mph acceleration time of 10 seconds...
300 miles between "fill-ups" of hydrogen... What is it like to drive?
It's a non-event, and that's exactly the point.
So, they have developed a car that's slower than the EV1, twice the
weight (so probably half the fuel economy), and no doubt vastly more
complicated and expensive. The Solectria Sunrise has already shown a
range of well over 300 miles is possible with GM's own nimh batteries.
All this hype for a vehicle that even the reviewer says is completely
lackluster and a "non-event"?
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeremy, before I had my EV I was curious about energy usage etc. So I took
my GPS and drove various different routes. I then put all the data into a
spread sheet and calculated the energy usage based on time, position and
altitude. I was able to come up with realistic figures for energy used for
acceleration, air resistance, climbing hills and tire friction. This help
to determine the size of the batteries for my EV.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeremy Rutman
Sent: September 20, 2006 2:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: newbie question - gears in or out?
>It's important to consider the power required for acceleration and the
>additional power for any grade. A 3,000 lb (1364 kg) ev requires 24 hp
>to maintain 60 mph (96.56 km/h), but also requires another 104 hp to
>accelerate to 60 mph in 7 seconds for a total of
>128 hp (95,157 Watts).
ok thanks for the info. But I would have to say that your summation is
suspect here - once you stop accelerating theres no more power required to
increase speed, so to maintain the 60 takes the 24hp (my calculations give
15hp, see
below) and no
more. If you were still accelerating at your 8.6mph/second (thats
60mph/7secs) when you
hit 60 then youd need the full 128hp but I'm not that kind of speed devil.
If you are trying to find the hp required for a given acceleration as a
function of speed you'd get a cubic function of the speed, not a constant
value - the force of wind resistance increases as speed^2, power=force x
speed, giving cubic function.
also the power required to maintain a const speed doesnt depend on mass
(except for negligible effect of rolling friction) but rather on speed,
frontal area and aero coefficient Cp. I find for 60mph, 2m^2 frontal area,
and Cp=0.37 a requirement of 11.5kW or 15hp, the power required again being
a cubic function of speed and linear in area and Cp.
>Since I'm still in "theory" mode, someone will correct any errors in my
>example.
>
>I've also added rows to estimate the reduction in range as a result of
>"stop and go" driving. For example, 35 stop/go accelerations to
>35 mph (3.5 seconds) combined with an average 2% grade might reduce the
>"constant speed" range by 40%. In other words, if my calculated range
>was 50 miles at 35 mph, I would actually only get 30 miles. Does that
>make sense?
>
>Ron Archer
yeah i guess all you need to know is the regen efficiency and average
acceleration.
Actually histograms of driving habits (e.g. of acceleration, speed, grade,
etc) would be very useful here but after several months of poking around
the net I have yet to dig one up.
jeremy
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EVA/DC members and friends are invited to what will likely be the
final showing in the Washington DC area of the highly-acclaimed
independent film, "Who Killed the Electric Car?" this Friday night,
09/22 at 7:30, at the AMC Loewes Centerpark 8 Theaters, 4001 Powder
Mill Road, Beltsville, MD -- a special private showing featuring an
appearance by Chelsea Sexton, the former GM EV1 Specialist who is a
central character in the film. Chelsea will be available for Q&A's
following the film, and will also be our dinner guest at a nearby
restaurant prior to the film.
Movie tickets will be available at a table in front of the theater
for a $10 donation to Integrity Research Institute, the sponsor of
this EVent, as part of their Conference on Future Energy, 9/22-24 at
the Sheraton College Park (which is actually in Beltsville), across
from the theater. For conference information: http://users.erols.com/
iri/cofe.html.
EVA/DC Special EVents Chairman Chip Gribben will have a limited
number of complimentary tickets to see WKTEC, for anyone who brings
an EV to display in front of the theater -- or who volunteers for the
upcoming Solar Home Tour, 10/07-08.
EVA/DC members and their guests are invited to join us for our Friday
night dinner with Chelsea at 6 p.m. -- but you must RSVP to Chip
Gribben [EMAIL PROTECTED] or Tel: 240-687-1678, no later than 4 p.m.
this afternoon, Thursday, 09/21.
BTW, your movie ticket donation also entitles you to attend a Wine
and Hors d'Oeuvres Reception in the White Oak Room at the Sheraton
after the movie.
Even if you have seen this incredible film before, we know that you
will have a wonderful time seeing it again with your friends,
cheering for the good guys, booing the bad guys, and feeling a sense
of outrage for what occurred, a longing for what might have been --
and a sense of hope for what could yet be, perhaps with a different
set of characters in the different kind of world that we now live in.
And speaking of "characters," this may be your only chance to meet
the "star" of WKTEC, the always lively and fascinating Chelsea
Sexton, and to ask those burning questions that only a former GM
insider can answer. Please join us, if you can. This will be an
evening not to be missed!
Regards,
Dave Goldstein
President, EVA/DC
__________________________________________________
For the latest information, please visit www.evadc.org
___________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
What could make a contactor hold shut after a large current pass?
I have had this happen not once, but twice recently.
The first time, I was on my 5th test run pulling about 1000 amps when one of
the two large contactors welded shut and the other just stayed energized
with no ground applied. Had to use emergency disconnect. I have battery
continuously applied with a ground for control. I have two large contactors
in series for a higher voltage.
The second time, on a different contactor, I blew a 800 amp fuse because I
forgot to take off a strap I had put in for load testing the batteries. I
put a load of 1200 amps on the batteries for a few seconds. So when I was
testing my contactor controller after the battery load test and forgot to
remove the strap across the contactors, the batteries shorted out and the
800 amp fuse blew, but the contactor remained energized. Again with no
ground applied.
What might be keeping these contactors energized?
I have to pull up on the contacts to release them and then they remain off.
They have no diodes across the coil, just a factory suppressor of some sort.
I have no circuitry I need to protect, just mechanical means to control the
contactors.
I suspect the suppressor across the coils and am going to remove them.
Any downside to having nothing across the coils of large contactors?
John.
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--- Begin Message ---
What you're talking about is called the armature coil throw. Which is the
radial distance from the armature coil side or conductor to the comm bar to
which it is connected. This is, to my knowledge, accounted for when the motor
is designed and manufactured. I know at Prestolite that the same armatures
were used for CW, CCW and reversable motors, so the armature coil throw was set
to neutral so only one set of tooling was required. Any brush shift was
accomplished by offset in the comm end bell which positioned the brushes
relative to the field poles.
And it is called armature reaction. You should be able to find some articles
via web search which will give you graphical deplictions. If not, the old
library and text books will.
Jeff
Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Does the angle depend on the skew of the rotor conductors to the comm
also? The rotor pole relative to the field pole and the current is what
creates the "armature effect", If I am understanding correctly we need
to accommodate for that also.
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm assembling my vacuum reservoir with some guidance from Victor.
A 2" sch 40 PVC pipe about 12-16" long
I plan to assemble as such
Vac Pump----hose----tee to vac swtich--hose----barb to ----2"PVC
reservoir-----reduce to 1/2" npt---tee to vac gauge----barb to hose to
existing brake system
My 2 questions please are:
1. Should my switch be on the end I have it, or the end closer to the brake
system (in place of the gauge)
2. Is Sch 40 going to withstand the vac pressure
3. glued or threaded (of course I have to thread the brass barb fittings in
to the PVC F-NPT converting piece)
Re1: I realize ideally the vac switch would be at the center of the
manifold, but that would require a 2" tee and reducers which gets
cumbersome
BTW - for those who just want to buy one, they're available online at
$55 after shipping w. gauge whereas home built will cost approx $21 with
gauge
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG1464&N=700+115&autoview=sku
Thanks, Ben
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--- Begin Message ---
The Portland article about the drag racers was picked up by
www.hugg.com (digg for ecogeeks). One of the comments about the
article was this one:
"I was at a car show at Santa Pod (UK) earlyer this summer and there
was an electric beetle. I'll try to find a link to more info about
it."
I thought I'd try to help dig up some info. Does this belong to one of you?
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This response from the seller when I asked the mfg, colors available and
motor/batteries
"overseas two colors red and yellow 6pcs batteries 12v 200ah motor 6.3kw"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: Strange EV on Ebay
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:02 AM
> Subject: RE: Strange EV on Ebay
>
>
> > It is not an NEV. This is a Mercedes Smart Car. They sell them in
Canada
> > with diesel engines. Quite capable of 60mph, and allowed on all roads,
> > highways and freeways.
> >
> > Now whether it is an ebay scam or not...
> > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> As for a scam, one should consider...
>
> These are European pix of a car that's in (what is it, Kansas?). It has
zero
> miles. The *only* importer of the car is Zap, and this isn't a Zap car.
Zap
> sells these cars for up to $30K, with gas engines only, and this car has
no
> reserve. (It was $7500 when I looked.) OK... truck a $25 to $30K car to
> Kansas, yank out the driveline and make it a 55MPH, 75 mile range vehicle
> (advanced batts needless to say) and sell it for 1/5th the cost you have
> invested in it???
>
> Yep, makes great sense to me. But someone will Western Union him funds.
It's
> just too good a buy otherwise.
>
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