EV Digest 5909
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by Markus Wachsmuth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: distance formula
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery Balancing
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Transaxle
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Open Source Designs for Controllers
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) My first week of driving.
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: article: Electric Harley
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: My first week of driving.
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Installation questions
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Latest motor, compound motor, field layout. (Prestolite
mods)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Installation questions
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Some of the auto magazines like Car and Driver are using VBOX by Racelogic
and many, many auto manufactures including Aston Martin, Ferrari, Daimler
Chrysler, Porsche, Hyundai, Honda, BMW, Nissan, Toyota, Volvo, Ford and
countless others use Racelogic equipment. http://www.racelogic.co.uk/ Check
out the accuracy of their VBOX product. What is the big deal with you folks
about asking for verifiable data? I have information from a reliable source
that one of the vehicles mentioned isn't even close to being under four
seconds from 0 to 60. Please offer some verifiable data. I guess Lee Hart
was right on. BS sells!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roderick Wilde" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
BTW Rod, how exactly does someone document a 0-60 run? How would the
track timer know when you hit 60 mph?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I hate to be the one to bring up that silly word reality but can
anyone one
this list document where any of these EVs have actually done 0 to 60
mph in
less than four seconds in other than a press release. I realize I am
going
to piss off some CEOs by this post but please, let's keep it real
here. Let
the gas boys do the BSing.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo
Alto
> On 9/12/06, bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> A reminder to make a note on your calendars to attend the 34th
>> annual Silicon Valley EAA Chapter Rally being held Saturday
>> September 30th from 10am to 4pm in the Palo Alto High School front
>> parking lot (across from Stanford U.). Map:
>>
>>
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=el+camino+real+at+embarcadero&csz=94301
>> See their web site for details http://eaasv.org
>>
>> The Chapter's President mentioned that they are working on having
>> both the Tango EV as well as AC Propulsion's vehicle at the Rally
>> to be along with Tesla EV.
>
>
> It looks the Wrightspeed X-1 might be able to make it as well.
That's 4
> different EVs that go 0-60 in 4 seconds or less!
>
> jorg
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
9/22/2006
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
9/22/2006
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good morning Mike,
A couple of fast EVs other than the Tesla:
> X-1 electric car, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBDeCthB7vs
> Venturi's Fetish,
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/venturi_fetish.asp or www.venturi.fr
A somewhat reliable and accurate way to measure speed is a GPS.
Regards,
Markus
Mike Phillips wrote:
BTW Rod, how exactly does someone document a 0-60 run? How would the
track timer know when you hit 60 mph?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I hate to be the one to bring up that silly word reality but can
anyone one
this list document where any of these EVs have actually done 0 to 60
mph in
less than four seconds in other than a press release. I realize I am
going
to piss off some CEOs by this post but please, let's keep it real
here. Let
the gas boys do the BSing.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo
Alto
On 9/12/06, bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
A reminder to make a note on your calendars to attend the 34th
annual Silicon Valley EAA Chapter Rally being held Saturday
September 30th from 10am to 4pm in the Palo Alto High School front
parking lot (across from Stanford U.). Map:
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=el+camino+real+at+embarcadero&csz=94301
See their web site for details http://eaasv.org
The Chapter's President mentioned that they are working on having
both the Tango EV as well as AC Propulsion's vehicle at the Rally
to be along with Tesla EV.
It looks the Wrightspeed X-1 might be able to make it as well.
That's 4
different EVs that go 0-60 in 4 seconds or less!
jorg
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
9/22/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
9/22/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Can somebody get a NE555, capacitor and three resistors
> plus a 12V power brick and give him a pilot tone?
> http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555/555.html
>
I have the kit, can't get myself to try to solder it up - just not
very good at it. It'll need a battery unless there's a 240V "wall wart".
> > I *have* to plug into an Avcon station
>
> Mount the charger you have at home in your truck and then you can plug
> it into available outlets?
>
What charger? I don't have 240V access at home - I use public charging
exclusively, which means I walk about a mile and a quarter to and from
the truck most of the time.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You'll have to bring a rolling-resistometer or 'rohllmeter' on your
trip.
>
Along these lines, can someone tell me how accurate a roll-down test
is (if done both directions and averaged) and how to do one?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> You mean the less than 3% that have balancing ;)
>
> Mike
>
Considering how many flooded packs are on the road (and even more in
private use), that's probably the right percentage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like your thinking! That fast a 0-60 and top speed would be
awesome.
Looking at the kit car guys should give you some ideas. I've heard
alot of them use FWD audi units, and Porsche 914 units. Many of them
bolt on V8 engines with no trouble. Alledgedly the Fiero Getrag
transaxle could handle V8 levels of power.
Factory Five Racing is using a Porsche G50 tranny in their
mid-engined kit car, and they say a used one is about $2000.
<http://www.factoryfive.com/table/ffrkits/GTM/GTMkit.html> (Indeed,
using this kit could be a great starting point for an electric
supercar.)
--- Curtis Muhlestein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Given that I want to build a high performance mid engine EV that
> will go
> 0-60 in about 5 second with a top end of nearly 200 mph and you
> have $4,000
> to spend on a transaxle, what brand of transaxle would you buy, and
> why?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Arthur,
Any preliminary specs, pricing, and availability?
-John
John Foster
Vancouver BC
www.veva.bc.ca
www.itiselectric.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Arthur W. Matteson
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 1:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Open Source Designs for Controllers
Many thousands of dollars wasted, yes, but my goals are for mass
production as opposed to just making something work. If you just want a
car, and not an enterprise, you use IGBT modules found on E-Bay that
have fault and overtemperature protection.
- Arthur
P.S.: What is your name? The "Death to All Spammers" title is kind of
awkward.
> I take it you're past the "coffee can full of dead fets" stage in
> production...?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello
I finished this week of driving my newly converted
1986 toyota pu 4x4 to the landfill. They weighed my
truck for free. It was 4340 lbs. total. I and my dog
were inside (~about 200 lbs there).
There are places to plug-in all around town. Some
places have gotten wiser and put there outlets on
timers. These timers cycle on and off. Some are set
at 20, 30 or 60 minutes. But if you look around,
there's always a place that doesn't have a timer. The
biggest problems with those timers is that they are
off when it is not cold out...but I have places that I
know where to plug in all year long.
My initial plan was just a vehicle that would get me
from work, a 4 mile roundtrip.
Now after getting laid off, and almost sent to the
Middle East; I'm going back to school which is about a
24 mile roundtrip.
I'm using the sam's club batteries. They say 75 amps
at 110 minutes. I figure those are 137 amp hour
batteries.
Using the emeter. I was able to do one leg of my
journey using only 27 amp hours. But that was going
really slow, with cars passing me. Don't worry I don't
have any bumperstickers saying the car is electric.
Today was my best drive. Just got on the highway and
got to 55 mph. I keep changing the transmission by
force of habit. But I'm driving in 2nd gear with the
72-120v 1209b that logi upgraded to 550amps.
I did throw it into 3rd at 45mph. I don't understand
why.
Michael G.
Fairbanks, AK
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Russell,
Of course there are 240V bricks. Almost every switching
power supply can take either 110 or 230V AC.
Check your laptop's supply for example.
No 240V at home? Is your service panel not receiving
110 + 110V?
It is easy to check: inside your service panel there
are copper bars coming out of the section with the meter,
usually first connecting to the 100+100 Amp main service
breakers, which feed the 110+110V into the two bars, to
which the other breakers are clamped to take the incoming
current and feed them to the different parts of the house.
If there are two separate bars (you can use an AC voltmeter
to make sure) then you have 240V available.
All you need is another double-pole breaker with mechanical
interlock, so the two breakers always switch at the same moment.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 10:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo
Alto
> Can somebody get a NE555, capacitor and three resistors
> plus a 12V power brick and give him a pilot tone?
> http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/555/555.html
>
I have the kit, can't get myself to try to solder it up - just not
very good at it. It'll need a battery unless there's a 240V "wall wart".
> > I *have* to plug into an Avcon station
>
> Mount the charger you have at home in your truck and then you can plug
> it into available outlets?
>
What charger? I don't have 240V access at home - I use public charging
exclusively, which means I walk about a mile and a quarter to and from
the truck most of the time.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David,
In case you are interested in how much Tesla addressed this
issue, I invite you to read up on the "Safety" page in their
engineering section, it tells me they did their homework:
http://www.teslamotors.com/engineering/safety.php
"Tesla Motors's engineers selected cells from a reputable
Fortune 500 battery supplier that has produced billions of
safe, reliable, Li-ion batteries. We combined this basic
proven cell technology with our own unique battery pack
design to provide multiple layers of protection. Our
design ensures that should any cell fail catastrophically,
adjacent cells do not. This is true regardless of whether
or not the battery pack cooling system is running. (The
cooling system in the Energy Storage System exists to
increase the battery pack's life -- we don't depend on it
for safety.)
We then collaborated with an outside firm known for
expertise in lithium ion battery safety to perform
hundreds of tests to validate the safety of our design.
In these tests, we set out to simulate a worst-case
scenario in which a cell develops a serious malfunction.
In each test, we set a cell on fire in the middle of a
Tesla Motors battery pack (by heating the heck out of it)
and observed the results. Our design contained these
failures to a single cell, demonstrating that
malfunctions wouldn't spread."
Hope this clarifies why I do not feel very concerned.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Ankers
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 12:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto
enthusiasts)-Long
I wouldn't call 4.1 million a limited series? That's for Dell alone and
doesn't count the apple packs.
Did you read the articles that started this thread? It appears obvious that
you did not. You are also flat wrong that "Most Li-Ions die when they are
accidentally over-discharged", most problems happen in the opposite case,
over charging. These issues are not the cause of my concern; my concern is
defective cells that internally short.
I give up. If people aren't prepared to do the research but instead take
manufacture's claims, with zero proof, as reality it is a sad reflection on
the state of critical thinking. Just because it matches what you want to
believe doesn't make it true.
Do the research and you'll see a lot of Lithium cell issues. If it's just
the dodgy Sony cells, what about this IBM fire?
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/gizmodo-reader-witnesses-ibm-laptop-catch
-fire-at-lax-201115.php
What about the mobile phones issues as well?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,113980-page,1/article.html
Also check the CPSC website and you'll a lot of examples involving Lithium
cells.
Naturally Tesla knows about the risk of Lithium cells, but so did all Laptop
manufactures..... How much Tesla have done to combat this, we only have
Tesla's word about. If some of the worlds leading technology companies,
using much fewer cells have failed to address this, I think it is wise to be
cautious.
I'm actually shocked at the fan boy level of this list, there are legitimate
questions here - that much really is beyond debate and I've backed up my
concerns with verifiable information. To say these concerns are alarmist is
disingenuous, the alarm of the public will obviously come from seeing the
same cells Tesla uses exploding in consumer devices.
I personally am not prepared to dismiss this problem until the Teslas have
been in everyday use for a while. I would much prefer a Tesla with the
Phosphate based cells and I have personally tested the Emoli cells to
failure with a puncture test, over charging and a total short; I did this as
I'm using them in an Electric scooter.
Time will tell what happens, maybe Tesla will switch to a safer cell
chemistry sooner rather than later.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Saturday, 23 September 2006 3:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
Since Tesla also knows about the Li-Ion vulnerability to
self-destruction, could they have built a protection into
their layered battery pack?
Maybe temp sensors on a real BMS?
Or made sure that they had the proper, not-contaminated
materials in their cells?
Most Li-Ions die when they are accidentally over-discharged
so a good BMS and this does not happen.
Anyway - DELL did not recall a single laptop.
Only a limited series of Sony-made batteries were recalled.
I have several DELL laptops around and even a stack
of spare batteries, from all kinds of dates.
None of the batteries I had were part of the recall.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Ankers
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 9:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto
enthusiasts)-Long
>> Puncture a stock laptop Li-Ion and it bursts in to flames.
>Good data point. You have done this, right? So it is not a myth?
Yes, I have done this and I've done it with Lithium Polymer cells as well.
You might be one of the few using Li-Pos in an EV but there are hobbies that
have been using them much much longer. There are videos around of these
tests. I'm sure there is one on the valance site even, I think they start
off shooting the cells with a bullet, that's a little extreme, however later
they show a simple laptop cell puncture test. Kaboom.
Here ya go: http://www.valence.com/SafetyVideo.asp
Now a polymer:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5800338&postcount=4
>> Two reasons why I have not ordered a Tesla, first they are left hand
>> drive but I would not buy a car using stock laptop cells.
>> All it takes is one of the 7000 cells to be faulty and, you will be
>> killed.
> Really? One cell faulty and you will be killed? This seems kind of
> extreme.
> You know this right, it is not one of those lithium myths you were
> talking about?
Stop being a dick. Yes, it's a bit hyperbolic but I am not going to risk it,
at best very badly burned. There is a small problem called thermal run-away
and you just can stop it once it reaches critical mass. There are numerous
videos around and I can assure you that others on this list are concerned
about the same issue with the Tesla.
>> BTW Do you drive a gas car? Is gasoline flammable or even worse,
>> explosive? (Oops. Sorry, that was a bit inflammatory<G>.)
This has been debunked as a false analogy a long time ago. The evidence of
everyday life obviously bares this out easily. You are claiming that
Gasoline just spontaneously explodes from just sitting in the tank? That's
ridiculous. However, what we are seeing in everyday life is faulty laptop
cells spontaneously exploding:
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/dell-laptop-explodes-in-flames-182257
.php
Dell has recalled a couple of million laptops recently due to faulty cells
that could have an internal short. Apple has done this twice and many more
companies as well. As you can see from the picture in that article, it's not
such a small fire and that is with 8 cells, now, imagine that with 7000.
These are Cobalt Oxide cells as Tesla is using. The laptops have a state of
the art BMS, didn't help as the issue was an internal cell short.
>> Hey Cliff, you were so lucky in that incident (although that cell would
>> have been toast, you caught that just in time.
> Sadly, it has happened more than once. I guess I must just be blessed
> with luck. Or maybe the cells are not prone to bursting into flames.
> This is what Kokam claims.
> http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_safety_02.html
Kokam still have the same problems with larger packs failing? Pity given
they cost a lot. Kokam claims a lot and always has, they still 500 cycles
pack life! Polymer based cells are safer than Ion but they are still metal
oxide based, so you have Lithium and an oxygen in the same little package.
Remember the fire triangle from school? All that is missing is heat. Not
hard to figure out is it? Hence when you discharged that cell after it
failed and it got warm why I stated you were lucky. Then again, having the
car filling with thick white smoke isn't exactly lucky either. I get the
distinct feeling that you haven't seen what can happen in a worse case
scenario when a cell fails.
But here's lots of evidence for you from the rc-world + videos.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187
List of incidents starts at post 4. You'll see even from small RC packs
people have lost their house and also cars. These are all with the safer
Polymer packs (some being Kokams) and of course only from people that use
that one site. Some are human error, some are not.
Listen, I love the Tesla and I like where Lithium technology is going to but
I am worried that all it takes is one Tesla to have an issue and certain
vested interests will use this to demonise the EV as unsafe. In the first
run of Tesla's there is going to be 700,000 Cobalt based Li-Ion cells on the
road, what's the chance of just one being bad? I wish they would use the
phosphate based cells and I think it has to be a cost issue although one
mishap could cost them very dearly.
You might be one of the first to use Li-Po packs in an EV but I think you
made the mistake of thinking that nobody else has bothered working with
them. In RC we have been using them for several years and in fact if EV'ers
used some of that information, there would a lot less Thunder Power cells
sold to the EV crowd.
Yes, there are a lot of myths and guess work on this list; it is exactly the
same kind of information that was seen when Li-pos were first being used in
RC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How did you verify your 0-60 time Rod?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Some of the auto magazines like Car and Driver are using VBOX by
Racelogic
> and many, many auto manufactures including Aston Martin, Ferrari,
Daimler
> Chrysler, Porsche, Hyundai, Honda, BMW, Nissan, Toyota, Volvo, Ford and
> countless others use Racelogic equipment.
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/ Check
> out the accuracy of their VBOX product. What is the big deal with
you folks
> about asking for verifiable data? I have information from a reliable
source
> that one of the vehicles mentioned isn't even close to being under four
> seconds from 0 to 60. Please offer some verifiable data. I guess Lee
Hart
> was right on. BS sells!
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:21 PM
> Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo
Alto
>
>
> > BTW Rod, how exactly does someone document a 0-60 run? How would the
> > track timer know when you hit 60 mph?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roderick Wilde" <ev@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I hate to be the one to bring up that silly word reality but can
> > anyone one
> >> this list document where any of these EVs have actually done 0 to 60
> > mph in
> >> less than four seconds in other than a press release. I realize I am
> > going
> >> to piss off some CEOs by this post but please, let's keep it real
> > here. Let
> >> the gas boys do the BSing.
> >>
> >> Roderick Wilde
> >> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> >> www.suckamps.com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jorg Brown" <jbx@>
> >> To: <ev@>
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:20 PM
> >> Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo
> > Alto
> >>
> >>
> >> > On 9/12/06, bruce parmenter <ev_list_editor@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> A reminder to make a note on your calendars to attend the 34th
> >> >> annual Silicon Valley EAA Chapter Rally being held Saturday
> >> >> September 30th from 10am to 4pm in the Palo Alto High School front
> >> >> parking lot (across from Stanford U.). Map:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=el+camino+real+at+embarcadero&csz=94301
> >> >> See their web site for details http://eaasv.org
> >> >>
> >> >> The Chapter's President mentioned that they are working on having
> >> >> both the Tango EV as well as AC Propulsion's vehicle at the Rally
> >> >> to be along with Tesla EV.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > It looks the Wrightspeed X-1 might be able to make it as well.
> > That's 4
> >> > different EVs that go 0-60 in 4 seconds or less!
> >> >
> >> > jorg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
> > 9/22/2006
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
> > 9/22/2006
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
9/22/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
9/22/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While you're at it Rod would you mind mentioning just what the 0 to 60 times
for some of the faster EV's is? We always get the 60 foot time or the
quarter time but that's pretty useless to the average driver that wants to
get on the freeway. 0 to 60 is what I'm concerned about. I would really
like to see the X1 or Tzero vs. Zombie. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
> I hate to be the one to bring up that silly word reality but can anyone
one
> this list document where any of these EVs have actually done 0 to 60 mph
in
> less than four seconds in other than a press release. I realize I am going
> to piss off some CEOs by this post but please, let's keep it real here.
Let
> the gas boys do the BSing.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:20 PM
> Subject: Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
>
>
> > On 9/12/06, bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> A reminder to make a note on your calendars to attend the 34th
> >> annual Silicon Valley EAA Chapter Rally being held Saturday
> >> September 30th from 10am to 4pm in the Palo Alto High School front
> >> parking lot (across from Stanford U.). Map:
> >>
> >>
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=el+camino+real+at+embarcadero&csz=94301
> >> See their web site for details http://eaasv.org
> >>
> >> The Chapter's President mentioned that they are working on having
> >> both the Tango EV as well as AC Propulsion's vehicle at the Rally
> >> to be along with Tesla EV.
> >
> >
> > It looks the Wrightspeed X-1 might be able to make it as well. That's 4
> > different EVs that go 0-60 in 4 seconds or less!
> >
> > jorg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date:
9/22/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Of course there are 240V bricks. Almost every switching
> power supply can take either 110 or 230V AC.
> Check your laptop's supply for example.
May have to play with one to supply the signal generator.
> No 240V at home? Is your service panel not receiving
> 110 + 110V?
> It is easy to check: inside your service panel there
> are copper bars coming out of the section with the meter,
> usually first connecting to the 100+100 Amp main service
> breakers, which feed the 110+110V into the two bars, to
> which the other breakers are clamped to take the incoming
> current and feed them to the different parts of the house.
> If there are two separate bars (you can use an AC voltmeter
> to make sure) then you have 240V available.
> All you need is another double-pole breaker with mechanical
> interlock, so the two breakers always switch at the same moment.
>
>
It probably does have 240V somewhere on it, I just haven't got any
outlets, and not being the kind of Joe Sixpack comfortable with
playing in the breaker box, it's a matter of convenience vs money! It
may seem odd that I'd rather walk than pay an electrician, but hey, I
need the exercise and I *am* a cheapskate!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
isn't it this one?
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/392
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of lyle sloan
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:59 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: article: Electric Harley
>
>
> Do you have anymore info on this bike and perhaps a
> photo?
>
> Lyle
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Good job! Another Alaska EV on the road! We are up to 4, of the ones I know
about.
Is your plan to plug in at work and be topped off for the trip home?
I ususally shift 2nd to 3rd at around 35mph-40mph. My ratios work out that in
2nd gear the mph=rpm/100. So 40mph=4000rpm. By that
speed the power seems to be significantly diminished and it seems like a
natural shift point. I don't go over 45mph in 2nd.
Although I can start of in 3rd and like telling people I can go 0-85mph rught
from 3rd gear.
Have you done the registration thing yet? Do they do emissions in Fairbanks?
Got pics?
Thanks for the report. BTW, what did you pay a piece for the floodies at Sams
there in Fairbanks?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 10:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: My first week of driving.
>
>
> Hello
>
> I finished this week of driving my newly converted
> 1986 toyota pu 4x4 to the landfill. They weighed my
> truck for free. It was 4340 lbs. total. I and my dog
> were inside (~about 200 lbs there).
>
> There are places to plug-in all around town. Some
> places have gotten wiser and put there outlets on
> timers. These timers cycle on and off. Some are set
> at 20, 30 or 60 minutes. But if you look around,
> there's always a place that doesn't have a timer. The
> biggest problems with those timers is that they are
> off when it is not cold out...but I have places that I
> know where to plug in all year long.
>
> My initial plan was just a vehicle that would get me
> from work, a 4 mile roundtrip.
>
> Now after getting laid off, and almost sent to the
> Middle East; I'm going back to school which is about a
> 24 mile roundtrip.
>
> I'm using the sam's club batteries. They say 75 amps
> at 110 minutes. I figure those are 137 amp hour
> batteries.
>
> Using the emeter. I was able to do one leg of my
> journey using only 27 amp hours. But that was going
> really slow, with cars passing me. Don't worry I don't
> have any bumperstickers saying the car is electric.
>
> Today was my best drive. Just got on the highway and
> got to 55 mph. I keep changing the transmission by
> force of habit. But I'm driving in 2nd gear with the
> 72-120v 1209b that logi upgraded to 550amps.
>
> I did throw it into 3rd at 45mph. I don't understand
> why.
>
>
>
> Michael G.
> Fairbanks, AK
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I painted the 86 Suzuki Samurai yesterday which marks
the turning point. I'm nearing the point where I can
stop repairing and restoring an old car and start
building an electric. I'd like to run several ideas by
you folks with some experience before I do something
dumb.
I have 5 battery boxes made of 1/16" sheet steel
installed under the floor of the cabin. One holds 4
batteries, one holds one battery and 3 hold 2
batteries each. (That should cure the tipiness!) The
plan is to connect them with 1" PVC conduit since some
of the wire will be inside the cabin and the rest
exposed beneath the car.
I located some computer slot 45 CFM squirrel cage fans
which would seem to be ideal as exhaust fans while
charging. One on each box venting under the car.
I would like a manual disconnect for the battery pack.
The two thoughts are a breaker or a way of pulling the
fuse out of the fuseholder. Some seem to feel that the
breaker is not a great idea (and they are expensive.)
I have not been able to locate a fuseholder, and am
wondering if it would create a connection problem-
like extra resistance, heating or whatever. Perhaps
there is a manual switch that will handle the
amperage? I don't anticipate engaging or disengaging
it under load unless there is an emergency. How big
would a knife switch have to be to carry the 400 amps?
After seeing the battery boxes in the car, I'm
thinking I had better drill some drain holes in them.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:19 AM 20/09/06 -0700, Jim Husted wrote:
Hey James
<snip>
I believe slotting the CE plate with 30 degree slots would weaken the
plate a lot, but may not weaken it enough to prevent it from being
done. Just don't mount the plate to the frame anywhere. If the DE plate
has a locked in bearing then there would be no front thrust and you'd
have no worries mate. More on this later cause I got to get moving.
Cya
><snip>, now to bead blast all the bits and make up the
> adjustable brush gear (hopefully +15 to -15 degrees, but that'd be 4 slots
> 30 degrees long, possibly weakening the CE plate too much) and brush
> connections,
G'day All - Esp. Jim
OK, I've been working on the brush gear, this is how far I've got (photos
to go up soon, but not yet):
Adjustment mods:
The bolt recess allows for 15 degrees of rotation, assumed to be + or - 7.5
degrees from neutral. My motor was over one side, so I've drilled another
set of holes 15 degrees away near the other edges of the recesses, so now I
can move the CE plate from +7.5 degrees to -7.5 degrees, chosen depending
on the direction of rotation I end up with.
The bolt holes for the brush holder mounting ring have been machined into
15 degree long arcs, + and -7.5 degrees from where they are originally.
This allows the brushes to be rotated from neutral to +15 degrees of
advance for either rotation.
On the inside of the motor, the face behind the brush holder mounting ring
has been machined flat from the curve where the casting becomes the bearing
boss to the curve of the outer edge, and recessed about 1/16 of an inch. To
fit this recess, a brass ring about 1/8" thick has been machined, holes
drilled to match the original bolt holes.
On the outside, the face has been machined enough to 'clean up' the
casting, plus a shallow recess around the bolt holes. A second brass ring
about 9/16" wide fits this recess, again with bolt holes to match the
originals. [on the outside boss of both ends I also added a marker groove
so if I need to bolt on an accessory (tach pickup, etc) I've already got a
position marker]
4 bolts go into the bolt holes in the brusholder mounting ring, long enough
to go right through the back assembly. These have nuts placed to hold them
into the brush holder ring, and space the brush holder ring from the brass
ring to clear the brusholder rivets. the bolts go through the inner ring,
the arced slots in the CE plate, and the holes in the outer ring, and then
nuts go on. This way the outer nuts can be loosened, and by turning the
bolts on the outside of the CE plate, the brushes can be moved. I could
also have (probably would have been better to) used spacers between the
brush holder mounting plate and the adjuster ring, and tapped the holes in
the adjuster ring, but it was easiest for me to do it the way I did.
I will make an insulation plate to go in the space behind the brush holder
ring, to increase the insulation strength.
Wiring mods:
The series field is wired to terminals where the original terminals were
installed. About 1" further along the body tube from each series field
terminal I've drilled a 3/8" hole and made some insulators to take the
3/16" brass bolts for the shunt field. On the CE plate there is a section
of casting alongside the mounting bolt locations that is wide enough to
accept the 9/16" holes for the armature terminals.
I've made copper buss bars to cross link the brush holders, one goes close
to the CE plate, one close to the fields, in order to miss the brushes.
These are wrapped along most of their length with Fusa-fab insulation tape,
hardened on with a hot air gun (where it wasn't already hardened from the
heat of silver-soldering the ends to the brush holders). I had to
silver-solder these to the brush holders, as the brush holders have no
brush tail terminals. Off each cross bar there is a short tail of the buss
bar to bolt a flexible tail onto, to go to new terminals in the side of the
CE plate.
The series fields I have re-wrapped in fusa-fab tape, and I'll be doing the
same with the shunt fields, but adding a thermocouple into one of the shunt
fields as I do it. (Jim, I've used up one of the two rolls of Fusa Fab you
sent me).
So far completed:
Bead blasting almost all of it, priming the body tube, priming the pole
shoes except for the backs where they are against the body tube. Clean up
the armature and a spray of lacquer, clean up comm. obtain new bearings.
Reinstall series fields into body tube. machine DE and CE plates to clean
up the castings and CE plate mods.
Yet to be completed:
Re-wrap shunt fields and install thermocouple, reinstall into body tube.
Reassemble and check brush holder position. Make and fit insulation under
brush holder mounting plate. final assembly.
If I get keen I may be adding an external blower, we'll see.
To be continued...
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> I have 5 battery boxes made of 1/16" sheet steel
> installed under the floor of the cabin. One holds 4
> batteries, one holds one battery and 3 hold 2
> batteries each. (That should cure the tipiness!) The
> plan is to connect them with 1" PVC conduit since
> some
> of the wire will be inside the cabin and the rest
> exposed beneath the car.
>
> I located some computer slot 45 CFM squirrel cage
> fans
> which would seem to be ideal as exhaust fans while
> charging. One on each box venting under the car.
>
We use Brushless DC motors, which do not generate a
spark. The hydrogen you vent is flammable. Likely,
the motors you have are of this type, but I'm just
checking...
> I would like a manual disconnect for the battery
> pack.
> The two thoughts are a breaker or a way of pulling
> the
> fuse out of the fuseholder.
I wouldn't go there.
Some seem to feel that
> the
> breaker is not a great idea (and they are
> expensive.)
I use a breaker. It's made to do that. If I have to
prioritize cost and safety, safety comes first. You
want your vehicle to pass insurance and DMV muster.
> I have not been able to locate a fuseholder, and am
> wondering if it would create a connection problem-
> like extra resistance, heating or whatever. Perhaps
> there is a manual switch that will handle the
> amperage?
The fuses I've gotten are from KTA, and meant to deal
with these high currents.
I don't anticipate engaging or disengaging
> it under load unless there is an emergency. How big
> would a knife switch have to be to carry the 400
> amps?
>
>
> After seeing the battery boxes in the car, I'm
> thinking I had better drill some drain holes in
> them.
>
This begs the question, "Are the BLDC motors sucking,
or pushing air?"
Most people prefer _pulling_ air out. Ie, they're on
the output end, not the input end of the battery box.
You want air to get in the box, so you can create a
neg. pressure, and have something to push out of it.
But at the bottom, you might not get enough flow.
True, you will use baking soda on the terminals, but
we don't generally let it run down the sides of the
batteries and out the bottom. Ions generate leakage
current. So we try to mop it all up. Ions can also
trigger rust on the bottom of the vehicle.
Just some things to consider.
peace ,
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
