EV Digest 5916
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: "Sucking Amps" TV show pulled out of mothballs
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: : Marin Reporter looking for Marin EV builders
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: They are coming out of the woodwork!
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Short and blunt - list abuse
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Currently most powerful bats or caps available?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: They are coming out of the woodwork!
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: will not go
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Workplace charging
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: They are coming out of the woodwork!
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Charging: (Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 ...)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: will not go
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: melted a post (learned a lesson)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: They are coming out of the woodwork!
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: GPS as speed and distance log. 0 to 60 time measurement
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: GPS as speed and distance log. 0 to 60 time measurement
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: They are coming out of the woodwork!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: IB9000 NiMH Re: Currently most powerful bats or caps available?
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) another conversion
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) alt car expo in So Cal
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Getting the garage electrical up to EV snuff
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV parts car on e-bay
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I went home for lunch at Noon, here on the west coast, and it was
playing on the Discovery Channel.
bruce parmenter wrote:
Roderick,
Looks like it was this morning at 9am PST, or 12:00 PM (noon) EDT:
-
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sent them an email suggesting they also consider coming to the
Silicon Valley EAA Rally this Saturday http://eaasv.org
The reporter would have a lot more information for their story if
they came. But then again it does not seem to matter much.
The media does not have a good track record of good journalism.
Meaning; even if we the EV community spoon feed the media with the
correct information, the media still seems to screw it up.
But one can only hope, and keep trying to work with them :-o
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm curious how you might respond to this message. If I got a message like
this
I'd try to get him to tell more about his ideas. Maybe you could tell him
you had
no experience with using transformers or inducers on an electric car and ask
for
some advice.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:07 AM
Subject: They are coming out of the woodwork!
I have been getting more responses from the TV show and I thought I would
share this one with you folks.
Roderick Wilde
Hi my name is James and I love your show.. Got a question, why don't you
guys use transformers or inducers and the such.... you can amplify your
voltage and amperage on both dc and ac level, thus getting rid of the
batteries... I tried and tested it..seems to work on a low budget.. But
haven't tested it with high dollar transformers and transducer, and other
power increasing options. Guys its out there don't think the power
companies don't know about it, it can be done. And we know all the rules
to the perpetual motion law.. If it was impossible then why make a law?
There isn't a person can't fly law... Anyway try the transformers and
inducers, transducers and other componets.. And do me a favor, if you do
decide to use this idea.. can i get some credit and some tickets to come
and see u guys and help..
thx james
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--- Begin Message ---
Even Rich knows that we just HAVE to hit him with a 2x4 once in awhile. :-)
Bill D. (in Houston, still)
At 04:06 PM 9/25/2006, you wrote:
There is no issue with questioning the status quo. However when questioning
is dealt with abuse or malice then it becomes a problem.
"yet your little man syndrome kicked it"
"You acted like a dick"
This kind of insulting people is not productive, nor EV related. If you
have personal issues please do not air it on the list.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Ankers
Sent: September 25, 2006 12:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Short and blunt
Hi "Build leader"
Friendly place this. Especially when the matter had been put to bed, yet
your little man syndrome kicked it. Seems anyone that dissents and dares to
question anything on this list is open to attack. Poor Jack just got a dose
for daring to point out some new NiMH cells.
I don't agree with some things you say and find you abrasive and uncouth
YET, the key difference between us is that I would never ask for anyone to
be removed from this list. In the words of Voltaire "I might not agree with
all you say but I will defend your right to say it". You however, want
anyone that appears to disrespect your imaginary hierarchy to be removed.
Unlike you, I do not wish to get respect (you're projecting) however, I do
wish to know the truth.
I might have appeared to come from nowhere but I've been here a while and as
you can tell, I've seen you pull these outbursts before, "build leader".
Let's be clear: the point of your post was to stamp your authority and
reinforce the hieratical structure you have built in your head of the EV
world, with you somewhere near the top.
Cliff's mails did bother me; I tried to debate the issue yet he turned
nasty, however, you don't really bother me at all and I have even less
respect for you now for trying to jump on someone you thought was new to EVs
and attempt to scare them away from what you appear to consider your list.
P.s. Seam is a noun, as in a line of stitching, I think you wanted the word
"seem" which is a verb. As in: "I seem to be a verb" :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Tuesday, 26 September 2006 1:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Short and blunt
Oh It looks like we have a short timer...... abusing a long time Ev
lister....
First David... treading ligher might give you a little better respect here
on this list.
Cliff has been on this list for a long time sharing his experiences with
Kokam's.. this is very usefull information.
You Seam to have come out of no where and know more than Guy who has years
of abusive racing on Said Batteries.
Guess who we are going to lilsten to???
Clearly not the Sqeaky voiced Punk that has some nasty things to say about
some pretty good batteries.
So I cast my vote to the list Gods to send you on your way.
If you have something to say, Say it cleanly and clearly and back it up
with data.. or don't say it all.
have a nice Day..
On some other list please.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ankers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 7:45 AM
Subject: RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
> I'm sorry you chose to run away from the debate especially without
> addressing any of the issues but instead did the equivalent of sticking
your
> fingers in your ears and singing "I'm can't hear you", is this a mature
> response?
>
> Now, for the record and for the list - as you're not listening ;-), I
posted
> what are called OPINIONS, sorry that you don't like them but I have that
> right. You responded to my own personal OPINIONS with a highly
inflammatory
> mail (which you stated yourself) and raised tired old fallacies. You acted
> like a dick and I called you on it, your first reply to my OPINIONS was an
> inelegant attempt at a put down and if you were honest with yourself you
> would admit that, although by running away you obviously know you are not
on
> a sure footing.
>
> You might not know Kokam have had problems with the large packs, and
> something else you don't know: my brother was the sole importer for Kokams
> in the UK for over a year and they had scaling problems then.
>
> I'm above your ad hominem attacks so let's clarify some real points:
>
> My comment about Kokam claiming 500 cycles: I refer to the fact that they
> make this claim when it is false, has been proven false by independent
> testers and that is with smaller packs. 800 cycles? BWWaaahhh, sure, and I
> also have a rather nice bridge for sale. With batteries, all manufactures
> make claims, many outrageous and Kokam have a record of this, they were
the
> first manufacture to start using capacity rating with a discharge current
of
> 0.2c while most other manufactures at the time used 1C, sneaky. Who
> initially denied LiPo cells had a shelf life? Why, that would be Kokam.
>
> I believe there is always things to learn from everybody and have found
this
> to be the case throughout my life, in fact everyone I've met I have learnt
> something from, or at least I can not thing of anyone I have not learnt
> anything from. Take Cor's excellent response, he quoted verifiable facts
and
> simply put the thread to rest, of course, until you had your tantrum.
>
> One thing I find absolutely stunning is your attempt to have the last
word,
> simply amazing. Anyone with a rational mind knows exactly what you are up
> to; you see, rational people that truly believe that "life's too short"
> would simply deleted the mail and block the sender. You on the other hand
> waste your "too short life" sending a response! Unbelievable. Further,
I've
> seen you pull the exact same stunt with others on this list and had 2
> private emails after your first outburst stating that you are "arrogant
> without any cause to be" and "not just a dick, an elitist dick" so it
> appears you have upset others as well.
>
> Your behaviour is transparent and from it, I can be certain you will read
> this mail; ironically though you have prevented yourself from even
replying,
> oh my.
>
> Cliff, be especially careful when talking about items you have a vested
> interest in, such as being sponsored - firstly you must be aware that you
> can easily come across as a bought and paid for shill out to mislead and
> suppress other peoples OPINIONS that don't match what you are trying to
> promote. Secondly, what you do on this public list also reflects on the
> company that sponsors you. Now, go and think about how badly you have
> handled this, in front of a lot of the EV community and how that reflects
on
> Kokam and their choice to be represented by you. You can't learn anything
> from me? You just did ;-)
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of ProEV
> Sent: Monday, 25 September 2006 10:32 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery fires concern auto enthusiasts)-Long
>
> David,
>
> I am on the EV list to learn from other's experiences and knowledge and to
> share my experience and knowledge. It is often a fun and educational
> experience.
>
> But I do not enjoy being called 'a dick'. Life is too short. It is also
> against the list charter
>
> Luckily there is a quick technological fix. I just added your name to my
> blocked list.
>
> I often hesitate to do this because there are some abrasive personalities
on
> the list who do contribute excellent information. Blocking them cuts me
off
> from things I would like to learn.
>
> In your case, I feel there is little danger of that. Statements like <
This
> has been debunked as a false analogy a long time ago.> does not tell me
> anything except that you were convinced by someone's argument. It does not
> help me learn anything.
>
> You pose vague argumentative statements, < Kokam still have the same
> problems with larger packs failing? > which seem designed to put Kokam in
> the position of "When did they stop beating their wives". For the record,
I
> have not heard anything about any Kokam packs failing despite exchanging
> information with a lot of Kokam users. ProEV posts our experiences in
public
> to help others learn from our mistakes. We have had cells fail because we
> have chosen to run the cells outside of what is recommended.
>
> Specifically our 70 amp-hr cells were rate for 5 C (350 amps) continuously
> but on the track, we would run them closer to their peak rating (700
amps).
> Kokam had no experience under these conditions but suggested that if we
kept
> the cell below 60 degree Celsius, we might just lose some cycle life. Our
> cooling scheme was inadequate and many cells went over 70 degree Celsius.
We
> have learned that Kokam is right. High heat can kill a cell.
>
> We have also shorted cells and killed cells by over-discharging them but
not
> on purpose.
>
> Other of your statements are just poorly written and hard to understand
> <Kokam claims a lot and always has, they still 500 cycles pack life! > . I
> think you mean that the latest Kokam cells last for only 500 cycles . This
> would be wrong. The new cells ( called High Power and Ultra High Power )
are
> conservatively rated for over 800 cycles.
>
> http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_Lipo_01.html has a graph of the
> 100% discharge test at over 1,400 cycles. (Everyone should keep in mind
that
> no manufacture has given us a solid answer of calendar life since each new
> cell formulation has not been around long enough for anything but
simulated
> calendar life testing, so cycle life might not be our biggest concern.)
>
> Good bye, David.
>
> If anyone else has questions about David's arguments that I did not
address,
> please feel free to ask them.
>
> Cliff
> www.ProEV.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor's capacitor burnout can be viewed here:
http://www.haritech.com/
He did not do a proper run because I believe the caps would have petered
out before getting him up to an impressive speed. That was an
enormously expensive capacitor bank too, Maxwell Boostcaps I believe.
But hey, just ask Victor.
The HP is not the issue. There is just no way to get a useful range out
of the current caps, despite earth-shattering increases in capacitance
and power delivery capability. At least not without spending
unbelievable sums of money. I'm not sure what could be done even if the
cost were not an issue. Now I do say "current caps", EEStor's
theoretical next-generation caps could produce useful range, hundreds of
miles in fact, but like I say these devices do not currently exist and
may not even be possible (see "Unobtanium").
The current potential application would be to take a battery that could
produce enough current to cruise but didn't produce enough current to
get an impressive acceleration, and use the caps to improve the
acceleration. Or use them to suck down hundreds of amps with firm regen
braking, some batteries are either inefficient or may be damaged by
charging at such enormous amperages. These two tasks fit well with the
high power density but relatively low energy capacity of the technology.
Unfortunately currently it costs thousands to use these caps to do those
jobs. Hybrid mfgs are experimenting but I think the cost is still too
high for any of them to seriously use them in a production vehicle.
Danny
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Dmitri Hurik wrote:
Pretty much the most powerful batteries would be www.a123systems.com
already
released and other high power lithium-polymer used in RC cars. Should
get
over 1000 HP, I suppose 2000 HP or more is possible with increased
battery
weight.
I like the HP potential. So about 105 of them will give me 348V. How
much range? How many parallel strings are we talking about here for
some decent range?
$21.50 each if I buy 6 and $18.34 each if I buy 12....
http://www.a123systems.com/html/products/buyKit.html
How about a BMS to support a few hundred or thousand something of
them? Have you seen one and how much?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I get emails like that off my web site, about the most one can
do is suggest some EV FAQ links for them to read and encourage them
to join the EV List after they have read them.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
If there's to be a southeast EV'ers search-and-rescue gathering, count
me in. Atlanta is only about four hours away from Nashville.
Matt
On 9/25/06, David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Calvin, you are near Atlanta, correct? If you don't get it running by this
weekend, perhaps I could come over. I'm in Rincon, near Savannah. Please let
me know.
I'm no expert, but have a fair bit of experience with your setup from my escort
days.
Some initial things to try:
1) does it have a charger interlock relay to keep the contactor from pulling in
when the charger is plugged in? Try disconnecting it and see if it might have
been stuck.
2) verify with a voltmeter that the pack voltage is correct.
3) did you hear the main contactor pull in? If not, try again, and check with
a voltmeter to see if there is any voltage between the controller side terminal
and the battery negative lead. If there is, then it closed properly. If there
is not, it has not pulled in.
4) check the voltage of your auxilliary 12V battery to be sure it isn't dead,
and too low to pull in the contactor.
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aaron,
There are a few PbSO4 battery chargers out there, but I recommend
the PFC chargers at [ http://manzanitamicro.com ]. The charger runs
from 90 to 240 VAC, and it is adjustable.
My biggest interest in EVs is charging. I have spent my money to
buy different chargers, test them, and then report my findings and
expereinces with them.
I use a PFC-30 to charge my S-10 Blazer
-
Do they not make chargers that will accept both 240V and 120V?
Could probably
find a normal outlet to plug into. Seems like something everyone
would use.
Wouldnt charge as fast, but would get you something...
Aaron Richardson
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
:) You decided to use cryptography on you message here ...
-Jukka
Osmo S. kirjoitti:
Patrionizing...patronizing... kuka näitä kaikkia muistaa! :)
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Easiest response I've found so far : "Great idea! Why don't >you< build one?
If it works, you'll get rich!" If the person has a reason not to, well, of
course
you understand - that's your reason not to build it, too.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Russell,
When I first received my S-10 Blazer EV I was living in an apt.
With the manager's approval I ran a 200'+ worth of 12/3 extension
cords out my bedroom window, along a fence, and to the side parking
area.
It was challenge to not only get the same or nearby parking spot so
I could charge but I had to deal with the IR loss/ voltage drop
from the long line. At the time I was using the on board 120 VAC
transformer type dumb-charger: a 90 lb Bycan (what a pain).
A few years later, I a different apt. that had an assigned car port
(so no one could ICE my spot), and I had both on board 120 and 220
VAC chargers. I could charge slowly on 120 VAC or fast on 220 VAC.
The 220 Zivan chargers I had could run off 208 to 240 VAC input
power.
I found an electric range outlet in the kitchen area. An Electric
range outlet can be a
http://applianceguru.com/ranges/range_outlet.jpg
with two hot lines and a ground, or 14-50 on a 50 amp breaker
http://applianceguru.com/ranges/4prong_range_outlet.jpg
I did not need an electrician to make adaptor to plug into the
outlet and bring out the two hots and a ground to my EV using a
hefty 10/3 extension cord (10 gauge wire/ 3 conductors: ground and
two more wires).
The plugs, receptacles and 10/3 extension cord are available at
most hardware stores. I bought mine at Home Depot.
[ref
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/75623
]
-
Re: EVent: Silicon Valley EAA Rally Sat Sept 30 10a-4p Palo Alto
[...] there probably *are* 240 outlets somewhere - I'd still need
an electrician, since those wouldn't be in the garage -- there is
no garage (converted to living space) and running a 240V extension
cord from the stove or dryer areas, out a window, and over to the
parking area doesn't seem like a safe choice, especially if any
insurance people get involved - also would need a pretty heavy
cable to prevent losses on its long trip.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:50:01 -0400, you wrote:
>Drove home Friday evening, set the car to charge. unplugged Saturday
>morning. Equalized charged Saturday afternoon. Got in the car Sunday
>morning to drive to church. Turned the key. The seatbelt alarm
>sounded, radio came on.
When you turned on the key, did you hear the main contactor pull in?
First place I would look.
R. Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The ampere rating of 2/0 welding cable that is 600 volt rating is 300 amp
continuous for a distance of 100 feet, which we call 100 percent duty cycle.
I am using 2/0 compact 500 + strand conductor that has a distance of 25 feet
from the battery pack to the motor. In engineering, we call this a 50 foot
circuit loop that is used in circuit calculations.
2/0 cable is about .008 ohms per 100 feet. If you have 300 volt battery
pack and a 300 amp load, then 300A x .008 = 2.4 volt drop per 100 feet.
50 feet circuit is about a 1.2 volt drop at 300 amp load.
This is only the conductor voltage drop, not the additional battery voltage
sag.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: melted a post (learned a lesson)
> I'm in NJ, so I'll be buying a new battery and will keep a close eye on
> its
> water level as it'll be the strongest. I was recomended against repairing
> a post to put back into heavy service.
>
> Now, I have many cables and bolted lugs to put together with a generous
> contractor electrician at the plant who will let me borrow his crimper.
>
> QUESTION.
>
> reading my "Ugly's" reference,
> 1/0 cable is rated to 230 to 400 Amps depending on temperature
> 2/0 is 300 to 500 Amps.
>
> Those ratings are quite low.
> My 600 Amp controller EV works well on 1/0 cable all around. However, who
> uses 2/0? What is the real rating for 1/0 and 2/0 so one using a 2K Zilla
> would know what to get?
>
> I'm guessing the answer lies in "sustained current draw" and not 20
> seconds
> of high current draw.
> Thanks, Ben
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah and lets use gearboxes and stuff to amplify the rpms and torque
and we can get rid of the motor too ;)
On 9/25/06, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have been getting more responses from the TV show and I thought I would
share this one with you folks.
Roderick Wilde
Hi my name is James and I love your show.. Got a question, why don't you
guys use transformers or inducers and the such.... you can amplify your
voltage and amperage on both dc and ac level, thus getting rid of the
batteries... I tried and tested it..seems to work on a low budget.. But
haven't tested it with high dollar transformers and transducer, and other
power increasing options. Guys its out there don't think the power companies
don't know about it, it can be done. And we know all the rules to the
perpetual motion law.. If it was impossible then why make a law? There isn't
a person can't fly law... Anyway try the transformers and inducers,
transducers and other componets.. And do me a favor, if you do decide to use
this idea.. can i get some credit and some tickets to come and see u guys
and help..
thx james
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Already have a GPS. BTW I got the 1987 Honda VT700 Shadow. It's in near
perfect condition for 200 dollars. Sold the loudly knocking motor and
associated ICE parts(shiny chrome thingies) for 150 dollars. LR......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: GPS as speed and distance log. 0 to 60 time measurement
> This is a bit like measuring shaft diameter to the nearest 1/100th using
> a wooden yardstick.
>
> Why not use a racing timer?
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > Can a GPS be used to give 0 to 60 times? If so it could also be used to
log
> > altitude, distance etc. for purposes of range calculation. Hell if you
> > could get it to talk to your emeter & a few other sensors like
temperature
> > you could get some real good data to figure energy usage. Real range
> > estimate before you go on your trip. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have it acutally implemented already and it works quite nicely.
There are few different GPS chips which can give out already calculated
data. So not that much to be done on CPU.
The "range left" function is very useful as soon as you have very
accurate capacity calculation/estimation too.
But it takes some time to get used to 4 decimal ah count which looks
like some sort of code cracker from movies :) . Drops faster than it
actually does. I think "more information adds pain" applies here (a
saying?).
At least here (Finland) the GPS shows accurate enough numbers. Every
second I get several samples and from them the position. With one sample
I can get 4 feet off. With three samples I get it near one feet. The
route gets plotted if I wish and I can see the elevations affect on
consumption. I think we can come out with a route
calcualtion/optimization Sw for it too.
Also driving direction and speed comes out automaticly from selected
chips. Cheapest stuff ($20) USB ones might have less options to play
with. Better ones have more than you can even use.
All this is part of the Lion CCS (BMS) I'm working on.
What it comes to 0-60 things I have not yet started with that. There
will be some sort of error margin. How big... dunno yet. At least it
does not matter anymore if the front wheels does not touch ground until
100 ft after launch...
Afterall this drag racing stuff can and should be done on track where
you have all the required equipment installed and secured enviroment.
But... so far I have not been able to drive nicely all the time with
1400 lbs car with 1k Zilla... eh..
-Jukka
fevt.com
Eric Poulsen kirjoitti:
This is a bit like measuring shaft diameter to the nearest 1/100th using
a wooden yardstick.
Why not use a racing timer?
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Can a GPS be used to give 0 to 60 times? If so it could also be used
to log
altitude, distance etc. for purposes of range calculation. Hell if you
could get it to talk to your emeter & a few other sensors like
temperature
you could get some real good data to figure energy usage. Real range
estimate before you go on your trip. Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Uh Roderick could I get this guy's email address? You never know...........
Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:07 AM
Subject: They are coming out of the woodwork!
> I have been getting more responses from the TV show and I thought I would
> share this one with you folks.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
> Hi my name is James and I love your show.. Got a question, why don't you
> guys use transformers or inducers and the such.... you can amplify your
> voltage and amperage on both dc and ac level, thus getting rid of the
> batteries... I tried and tested it..seems to work on a low budget.. But
> haven't tested it with high dollar transformers and transducer, and other
> power increasing options. Guys its out there don't think the power
companies
> don't know about it, it can be done. And we know all the rules to the
> perpetual motion law.. If it was impossible then why make a law? There
isn't
> a person can't fly law... Anyway try the transformers and inducers,
> transducers and other componets.. And do me a favor, if you do decide to
use
> this idea.. can i get some credit and some tickets to come and see u guys
> and help..
> thx james
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I apologize about wrong facts about YT. But ok, a Typical NiMH cell doing
800? Not fair comparison either. The typical I've seen on 99% non-ev,
low-cost cells such as SubC / D are 400-500 cycles. More costly but better
quality will do more(like Saft), but that's not "typical" Example:
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5936/cyclehy3.gif HED-9000 cell, source:
Suppo Battery, about 400 cycles.
And NiMH manuals I've seen advise AGAINST parallel charging.
And I agree with what Mike said:
Typically whoever makes a good sub-c is not a candidate for making a
good D cell. Rechargable D cells are a long forgotten cell type. So
serious testing is the only way you'll know anything.
In order to parallel nimh you must be able to separate the strings
occasionally for equalizing. So making that sub for a YT is going to
be fun.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: IB9000 NiMH Re: Currently most powerful bats or caps available?
Dmitri,
Please check your facts before posting. You are comparing the
theoritical best case on the lead acid with the practical worse case
on the Nimh. It is not only unfair, it is not even realistic.
50 Ah at 1C rate for an YT?! You must be dreaming. And, you still
get 500 cycles? I doubt that this is even possible in the ideal lab
condition. I have tested near 200 YT's, none could do more than 45 Ah
even after an extensive break-in. Most could only do about 30Ah if
you do not wake them up slowly.
For a fairer comparison, a typical Nimh cell could do >800 cycles at
100% DOD at 1C rate before dropping below 80% of its original
capacity. And, charging them is far easier than charging LiIon. Nimh
batteries are designed to handle some overcharge.
On 9/25/06, Dmitri Hurik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well at $5 a piece I get $462 per kwh for these.
Yellowtops 24ah? Whaat? From the numbers I've seen they are about 50ah at
1
hour rate.
If they are $160, then I get $266 per kwh for YTs.
And these NIMH cells typically don't last longer than 500 cycles, which
is
not really any longer than lead acid. So your NIMH will cost about twice
as
much as lead acid. Is it worth the weight savings, but double price? Your
call.
And competitive with A123? I say no. Bare IB9000 cells you say are $5 a
piece so $462/kwh. You can get A123 cells on eBay for $1350 per kwh in
DeWalt packs right now. That is not 3-4, more like 2-3 times the cost.
Then,
say you actually buy these A123 cells in bulk without those DeWalt packs,
you might have $1000/kwh or less. And then, the IB9000 cells will last
about
500 cycles, where the A123 cells will easily last 2000 cycles according
to
a123, and should even last 3000+ cycles, are lighter and way more
powerful(30C cont and 80C long pulse, 100C short pulse). So the A123
cells
actually come out cheaper over their lifetime. And keep in mind these are
D
size NiMH cells, which are usually way less powerful than the Sub-C cells
per kg. If you are smart, you should pick A123 instead. No point at all
in
these NiMHs. And charging NiMH isn't going to be any easier. They need a
different charging algorithm, unlike the CC/CV of Li-ion and lead acid.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 1:42 AM
Subject: IB9000 NiMH Re: Currently most powerful bats or caps available?
> Intellect has a new 9Ah NiMH D-cell battery.
> I haven't seen them mentioned on the list.
>
> They can handle 10C discharge (90amps), and 2C (18amp) charge rates,
> weight is 175g. The key feature is the price, only $5-6 ea!
>
> This basically makes them competitive to the lithium A123 M1 cells at
> much
> less cost. The M1's are 70g for 2.3Ah at 3.3V, so 280g (4 cells) for
> 9Ah,
> the IB9000 weighs 525g for 3-cells at 3.6v, so the M1's are roughly
> half
> the weight, but 3-4 times the cost.
>
> Compare to a Optima Yellow Top, that is 24Ah C/1, and you guys tell me
> not
> to go more than 50% dod, so really just 12Ah, and weigh 20Kg, price is
> about $160.
> 20 cells of IB9000 would be 18Ah, weigh 3.5Kg, and cost $120.
> That is 1/5th the weight and even less cost!
>
> I will be testing, and will probably be importing some quantity of them
> if they perform as advertised.
>
> Jack
>
> Dmitri Hurik wrote:
>> Super caps will Not give 20 miles.
>>
>> Pretty much the most powerful batteries would be www.a123systems.com
>> already released and other high power lithium-polymer used in RC cars.
>> Should get over 1000 HP, I suppose 2000 HP or more is possible with
>> increased battery weight.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Stotts"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 4:13 PM
>> Subject: Currently most powerful bats or caps available?
>>
>>
>>> Any ultra or super caps available that can get ~20+ miles of range?
>>> What kind of power output?
>>>
>>> How about on the battery front?
>>>
>>> How much hp can be had from a 348V pack with currently available
>>> energy storage devices?
>>>
>>> Anyone have any inside info on any products that are on the verge of
>>> actually being released?
>>>
>>
>>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, we just got #20 in our shop, another conversion. an S-10, Life is good
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out this event. I will be doing a conversion at
the event over the two days. I'll drive it out at the
end.
http://evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=13106&url=
Gadget
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If your garage is like mine was when we bought our house, the garage
lacks more than just an outlet for an EV. Our garage was supplied with
a single 120v 20 amp circuit which fed the garage door opener, one
duplex outlet and one 60-watt bulb for lighting. A 60-amp 240/120
volt subpanel fed by a 60-amp circuit breaker in the main panel was added.
More lights and outlets fed from the subpanel were added and later a 240
volt circuit for a welder. My EV charger was fed from a 240/120 volt
circuit breaker with GFCI in the subpanel.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:17 AM
Subject: Getting the garage electrical up to EV snuff
Here comes the first of a barrage of questions I have for you guys.
Hope you can put up with me over the next few weeks.
We have an electrician coming over to do some work, and I want him to
look over my new truck and put in a circuit for her while he's here.
I made a list of things for my wife to ask him and I wanted your input
on them (both to refine the questions and to get some answers about
things he's likely to not know from experience). Without further ado,
here's the list as I sent it to my wife:
1) Can he please put in a new circuit for the EV? I only need a 30A
breaker right now (charger maxes out at 25A), but someday I'll
probably want it to drive a 50A connection. Would it make sense to
put in a 60A breaker now? Will I be able to convert to 220 at some
point in the future? Do I want to?
If you could have him call me and explain some of this it would be great.
2) Off that circuit, can he install a regular three-prong outlet in
the garage?
3) Does that outlet need to be a GFI outlet just in case? I want
something that will trip out if the connection somehow gets grounded.
4) Can he suggest any safety features or better ways of dealing with
the EV so that we don't worry about Ellie wandering in there on her
own and hurting herself? Plus any other suggestions or ideas.
As always, thanks in advance for any helpful ideas and comments y'all
have. :)
Matt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm the one who said it is only worth $1500. That is just based on my
experience and the fact that I figured the body and underside are completely
rusted out. Based on the pictures, I see holes. He also said water leaks in.
That leads me to believe the floorboards are also rusted through. That's what
happens when a car is continually flooded with water when it rains. I can only
imagine what the underside looks like. Also, the line about one and only one
worn front tire leads me to believe it could need a lot more than a CV joint
and some tires to resolve. I could be wrong, but not seeing it, I error on the
side of caution. Site unseen, I'd still say $1500. If I got to drive it, that
could go up. Maybe I have been spoiled with all the rust free cars around
here. I just see a lot of money fixing the chasis. And, I wasn't thrilled
with the clutchless design. That and the body led me to the recommendation to
strip it. When it was up for $2k, not even one person
bid.
To each his own. If someone else wants to buy it at $2k, OK with me. But, I
hold firm at $1500.
Steve
On 25 Sep 2006 at 6:12, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> It appears to be rust free.
In the photos it appeared to me that there might be some rust, perhaps all
the way through, on the left rocker panel. However that may be surface rust
or even dirt, since the car doesn't seem to have the usual VW Rabbit rusty
spots - or perhaps someone plugged the more obvious ones with mud and hosed
on a coat of paint!
Again, strictly from what I can tell in a cursory look at the listing, I
guess I don't agree though that $2000 is more than it's worth and I don't
understand why anyone would think that it's only useful for parting out. I
could be missing something though.
A few years ago, an old EV like this would have sold for maybe $1500,
possibly less. But EVs have been hotter properties lately. Used to be you
could get a decent Solectria Force for $6k or so, but these days they sell
closer to $10k.
Which reminds me : Those of you who have declared value insurance policies
may want to contact your agents and have them adjust your EV's value.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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