EV Digest 5933
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: AC vs DC?
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: yahoo answers: ev's
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Article on EVs-moderator to comment please
by "David Sharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference Announcement - Save
the date
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) YARIS CONVERSION
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: AC vs DC?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Donor
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference Announceme nt -
Save the date
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Odyssey Battery Prices
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference Announceme nt - Save
the date
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) RE: Found my donor car - needs heat
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: YARIS CONVERSION
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Cheepee EV parts
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: AC vs DC? What if Tesla motors used a DC motor?
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: AC vs DC?
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: AC vs DC? What if Tesla motors used a DC motor?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Found my donor car - needs heat
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV RALLY/NEW YARIS CONVERSION
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I would like for Steve Clunn and others who have DONE IT
to way in on the pro's and con's of running the compressor off of the
secondary
shaft of the Traction motor vs. a separate motor ??
If you had a clutch couldn't you "idle" if you had to ?
I figure its hot in Fla.so steve should have some good advice ?
(OH I forget _ Steve said that he prefers two windows down at 40 mph)
I've had good luck mounting the AC compresser on the front of the motor (
side not hooked to tranny) and running the compresser off the tail shaft .
This way the ac hoses will be in about the same place . With the AC running
the little bit of drag makes shifting as easy as a gas . If you use a
separte motor you don't get this and you have to deal with another motor ,
is it the right voltage , can it handle the load , and there's the room
factor , the motor and compresser will take up alot of space where when run
off the tail shaft of the traction motor it don't take up so much room .
Having a working AC is such a big selling point , but for myself , I can
live fine without it .
Steve Clunn
Joe in Cincinnati
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The electricity consumed is many times what
> it would take to get the same cooling capacity with the HCFC (just an
> inverter-driven large window unit). Nor have we factored in how you'd
> house this in an EV and get enough airflow over the hot and cold sides
> to achieve the rated performance.
>
How many Btu's per watt does a peltier move?
Split-ductless heat pumps average ~10 Btu's for every watt used, both
heating and cooling, but a ton of cooling (12000Btu) requires about
100lb of equipment, at least "as is". Maybe you can discard some of
the "extra bits" meant for home use; you'd also have to see if the
modified sine wave output from cheap/common inverters would work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Having a working AC is such a big selling point , but for myself , I
can
> live fine without it .
> Steve Clunn
>
Really? Aren't you in Florida? Must not have the dry 110 degree peaks
we have boardering the Sacramento Valley. I grew up closer to the
coast, so we didn't have nearly the heat I deal with now. Mr Rhodes
probably doesn't have to think about AC in his conversions - summers
can actually get *cold* in S.F.! Heat is easier to make: electricity +
resistance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A well designed commercial Peltier "air conditioner" for enclosed equipment:
http://www.melcor.com/ssspecs.html
I gave the wrong number, it's like 10x more power consumption than a
HCFC system.
1.4 BTU/W at zero temp differential. The zero temp differential is not
very applicable to our scenario though.
If you want a situation where you're 30F cooler than the outside, drops
to about 0.833 BTU/W. BTU/W decrease per deg temp difference is linear
as shown in the performance chart.
That's a 52 lb unit.
People say a car needs like 2 tons of cooling, so figure 1500 lbs for an
array of devices of similar construction. Surely a design could be
tweaked some, maybe there's room to reduce the size by half, who knows,
but even by half is completely impractical.
Danny
Death to All Spammers wrote:
How many Btu's per watt does a peltier move?
Split-ductless heat pumps average ~10 Btu's for every watt used, both
heating and cooling, but a ton of cooling (12000Btu) requires about
100lb of equipment, at least "as is". Maybe you can discard some of
the "extra bits" meant for home use; you'd also have to see if the
modified sine wave output from cheap/common inverters would work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Indeed, sorry for causing confusion
I had remembered the word "copper" from early press releases and for
some reason associated this with wound rotor.
Instead they are indeed using squirrel cage motor with copper end rings
A quote:
"The 3-phase, four-pole motor uses a low resistance "squirrel cage"
with large copper end rings. This allows the rotor to develop high
current flows and torque, with low resistance losses. The use of a
small air gap allows tight inductive coupling which, combined with low
loss magnetic materials, enables the development of high torque at
high rpm. Together, these factors allow the induction of large
currents, even at high rpm, producing much flatter power and
efficiency curves from approximately 2,000 rpm to 12,000 rpm. The
motor redlines at 13,500 rpm.
(Devising a cost-effective method for the production of copper motor
rotors has been under investigation for years. Siemens introduced
three motors with die-cast copper rotors to the US market in April.)"
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/07/tesla_reveals_h.html
-kert
On 9/27/06, Peter Gabrielsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tesla does indeed use a squirrel cage rotor. here's a picture
http://blog.wired.com/teslacar/index.album?i=19&s=1
-Peter
On 9/27/06, Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For clarification, induction motors are AC asynchronous motors. I have
never heard of a wound rotor induction motor used in an EV. My
understanding was the Tesla uses an AC Propulsion Company motor system,
which is a squirrel-cage machine, unless they have changed it recently.
>
> You could also add to your list Switched Reluctance Drives. I guess it
would be classified as a synchronous non-PM AC machine. You don't see many,
but I think there was an electric motorcycle using a SRD several years ago.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Kaido Kert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Huh, to have a meaningful discussion, it would help to clarify some
terms.
>
> There are quite few different kinds of AC motors ( and drive systems)
> , and there are very few systems that run really on "straight DC"
> which would mean battery->potentiometer->motor setup.
>
> AC motors, relevant to EV apps include ( and are probably not limited to )
>
> Asynchronous, three-phase squirrel-cage motors
> Asynchronous, three-phase wound rotor motors
> Syncrhonous three-phase PM motors ( often found in industrial servos )
> Synchronous "trapezoidal" PM motors
>
> BLDC or "brushless DC" motors are often trapezoidal PM motors with
> commutator electronics built into motor.
>
> Each of the types above has its strengths and weaknesses
>
> ACIM squirrel-cages would potentially be very cheap and suitable for
> EVs, but most of the off the shelf motors are built for industrial
> apps and have abysmal power density bevause of heavy cases.
> Tesla Motors is using wound-rotor motor, most of the hybrids on the
> market are using synchronous three-phase motors.
> Currently i believe PM motors of any type win in power density but
> have their problems ( fixed magnetic field strenth, meaning iron
> losses meaning efficiency losses ) and are more expenive
> Control system for induction motors are a bit more complicated ( not
> much nowadays as all the heavy lifting is done on dedicated DSP chip
> anyway )
> AC motors of each type can be driven sensorless with varying
> difficulty which means cheaper overall system but getting better
> control characteristics requires more tuning. More efficient method is
> running with encoder or resolver feedback which means more parts but
> better characteristics.
> A couple nice presentations giving a good overview of all that
> fundamentals
>
http://www.freescale.com/files/ftf_2006/doc/presentations/Americas/AZ111.pdf
> FOC or field oriented control of AC motors
>
http://www.freescale.com/files/ftf_2006/doc/presentations/Americas/AZ105.pdf
>
> It would be nice if this info ( with corrections welcome ) would be on
> a wiki somewhere. Anyone willing to take that up ?
>
> -kert
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
rates starting at 1¢/min.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a link to a nice pdf file at metricmind that cleanly debunks the
power plant losses junk. Its been there for a couple of years now at least.
I have actually printed it out and forwarded it with an email to people who
just didnt get it. Im not sure they 'got it' after reading that, but it was
good ammo anyway.
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/pwrplnt.pdf is the particular info I shared
before, found on this page:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/main.htm
I believe thanks goes to Victor for hosting that.
Dave O.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/724
On 9/27/06, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Someone from the list should provide a better answer, with references.
As an asker you have to pick a best answer, but I don't want to pick
any of those!
-Mike
On 9/26/06, Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is VERY hard to de-bunk billions of dollars worth of mis-info.
> We can only publish the best info we have >with verifyable sources<
> and let the readers decide who to believe.
> But we will need to continue to point the *reporters* to our
> solid info, so they stop repeating the nonsense from politically
> biased or misinformed sources.
>
> Power plant efficiency 25%? maybe first half of last century.
>
> 8% of power plant input reaches the battery?
> Please read a verifyable well-to-wheels analysis.
> And so on...
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Ralph
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 2:23 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: yahoo answers: ev's
>
>
> Sheesh. You'd think the group was fronting the ICE industry. Most of
this
> seems like misinformation...
>
> -Ralph
>
>
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:19:48 -0500
> "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
>
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AnDR3SaGVHGiKBbpMpueJ27sy6IX?qi
> d=20060926101918AAgwFcI
> >
> > I signed up for Yahoo answers the other day. I decided to probe the
> > zeigeist on EV's. I thought the results were a bit disappointing, but
> > was happy to see that no one says they are slow.
> >
> > --------------------------------------
> > Question: What are the largest obstacles to the adoption of pure
> > electric vehicles in the consumer market?
> > -------------------------------------
> > Thomas: Cost, design and in the long run, efficiency. Yes, the car may
> > not produce any emissions but think about the energy source, which is
> > still mainly fossil fuels burned in a factory.
> >
> > A gasoline car gets about 25% efficiency out of the gasoline it burns.
> > A power plant may get roughly the same efficiency but then as the
> > electricity is transported along power lines some of it is lost. By
> > the time it reaches the car battery, it is only about at 8%
> > efficiency. So, if both energy sources are coming from fossil fuels,
> > which one is better?
> > -------------------------------------
> > SPONGEBOB: THE BATTERIES, AND POWER STATIONS, AND DISTANCE.
> > -------------------------------------
> > ekstreem8: price of the technology, the distance the car can go on a
> > single charge, the price to insure such a vehicle, the fact that they
> > would have to retrain the entire fire department on how to deal with
> > car fires with batteries the size of a coffee table.
> > -------------------------------------
> > douglas z: They are not much more cost efficient than gas powered
> > cars, after you consider everything. And distance is limited.
> > -------------------------------------
> > SigmundS of Yew: Batteries,
> > with the advent of hydrogen cell batteries we may soon have a viable
> > alternative to the big ole lead acid ones .. but the technology just
> > isnt efficient enough yet. The cost of the power isn't cheep enough
> > yet. would you pay 1.40 $ per mile ??
> > -------------------------------------
> > David W: Battery tech is about 10yrs behind were it should be. I think
> > this is the limitation.
> > -------------------------------------
> > brian l: The cars ranges are too short and the recharging time is too
> > long if you stayed in the city the car would be just fine. replacing
> > bad batteries are very expensive and disposal of the old batteries is
> > a problem as they are considered toxic waste. In cold climates the
> > batteries lose a lot of there charge and thus there range shortens
> > even more.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have permission to post Renew's article on 2 EVs in Australia in a month
or two. I don't have my own web. What is the most appropriate way of letting
the list see the story? It is 300kB pdf.
David Sharpe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn,
Thanks for your continued efforts to bring A great mid-winter race to
the ev enthusiasts.
Our 2006 racing effort was unacceptable. Missing your race and Power
of DC both has left an empty feeling inside.
Being busy with other projects is no excuse for not competing. It won't
happen in 2007.
I have just circled your date on my calender as a target to introduce
the new dragster from Lawless Industries.
See you there....
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:21 PM
Subject: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference
Announcement - Save the date
Hi Everyone,
The dates are now set for both the 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and the
EAA
6th EVer Conference!
The FL EAA chapter will be holding the second annual Battery Beach
Burnout
Friday January 26th & 27th and the 6th EVer Conference Sunday January
28th
2007. The Battery Beach Burnout is the Southeast’s premier EV
competition.
Events will include drag racing, autcrossing, show-n-shine, technical
competitions and new for this year, range events and scootercross! The
EVer
conference is the National conference for all the EAA chapters.
Both events will be organized by the FL EAA and held in Jupiter, FL.
Jupiter
is located in the West Palm Beach area of South FL.
Tentative Schedule of Events:
Friday January 26th 6PM BBB Drag Race at Moroso Motorsports Park in
Jupiter,
FL.
- EV Drag Racing from 6PM till 1AM, Midnight Madness type event.
Saturday January 27th BBB other events at Florida Atlantic University
(FAU),
Jupiter Campus (All Day – starting at 9:30AM)
- EV Autocross
- EV Scootercross
- EV Show-N-Shine
- EV Range Event
- Other competitions to be announced
- Saturday night will be a EV Social Event and possible cookout
Sunday January 28th Conference Florida Atlantic University (FAU),
Jupiter
Campus (All Day – starting at 9:30AM)
- EVer Conference
- EV Displays
The theme for this years Conference will be Education. This will
encompass
Programs for High Schools and Colleges, Public Education and Awareness,
and
EV Workshops. There is talk of adding a couple of other topics, but the
overall focus will be education. If you are interested in speaking at
the
Conference or have suggestions, please contact me (address and phone
listed
below).
If you are interested in being a sponsor, or are interested in
competing at
any of the BBB events, please contact Matt Graham (772-215-6180 or matt
at
suncoast.net).
More information will be posted on the FL EAA website
(www.floridaeaa.org)
in the next few days. Please keep checking the website for updates.
There
will be a registration form on the website for both events in the next
week.
Thanks – look forward to seeing everyone in January!!!
Shawn M. Waggoner
President, Florida EAA
www.floridaeaa.org
8343 Blue Cypress Dr.
Lake Worth, FL 33467
USA
Mobile: (561) 543-9223
Fax: (888) 909-8785
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI, Mark
Congratulations on your project. Since you're starting with such a great
car as a donor, that will make a real difference in the final conversion.
I'm about 75% completed with an Echo ( 01) conversion, and, I believe the
chassis are similar if not identical. I think they're great cars - we have
two ICE Echos, in addition to the conversion-in-progress.
About the engine. This may be true of all Toyotas, but I could not find a
buyer for the original ICE engine. These engines show up occasionally on
Ebay, but never seem to sell. A local Toyota repair place/juhkyard told me
that, until the cars are several years old, and someone occasionally blows
an engine by neglecting the keep oil in it, no one ever needs a new Toyota
engine. He offered me $100.00, so I decided just to keep it.
So, mine just sits in the corner of my garage for now.
One thing that worked out easy ( and cheap) for me was upgrading the
suspension. The Scion XB has the same chassis as the Echo ( and, I assume,
the Yaris), The rear XB springs are 41% stiffer than the Echos, are drop-in
replacements, and can be found cheap on Ebay. ( since many Xb owners upgrade
their suspensions). I bought a new ( 10 miles old) set of XB rear springs
and shocks on Ebay for $9.99 plus shipping, and they were very easy to
install.
One thing I found frustrating on the Echo is this: I weighed every ICE
component I took out, to keep track of the conversion weight, and I was
always disappointed out how little the ICE parts weighed. For example, the
engine ( without manifolds) was only 146 lbs. And, the gross vehicle weight
is not very high, so it's not easy to keep the weight within those limits.
I have 13 golf cart batteries ( 8VGCs) for a total battery weight equal to
30% of the final curb weight. That is just about a useful minimum. In
addition to the weight limitiations, space is limited, especially under the
hood. Also, since I have 1 inch or more of foam insulation in all three
battery boxes, that makes it even more difficult.
I have three battery boxes - two batts in a box where the original radiator
was, three in a box above the motor, and 8 in a box sunken halfway into the
trunk floor. I'll have about 100 more pounds of the front axle than stock,
and about 400 more pounds of the rear axle than stock.
I'm using an ADC 8 incher, with a conventional adapter, keeping the tranny
and clutch. Since two of the original engine mounts were on the tranny, I
only had to make a single adapter to go between the end of the motor and the
original top engine mount. The motor fits ( lengthwise) in the engine
compartment with about an inch to spare. So, motor installation was pretty
straightforward. I made the hub on a friend's lathe, and made the adapter
plate out of 1/2 inch aluminum. I've also got a 1 1/2 inch thick aluminum
spacer ring between the motor and the 1/2 inch thick plate.
I'm using a Curtis 1221C under the hood. Finding a good place for it was
difficult because of the limited space, but finally I have a good spot -
both accessible and with (I believe) good air flow for cooling.
I don't want to ramble on too much, but feel free to ask anything if
questions come up. Soon, (I hope) I'll have some pictures posted. Let us
know how things are going.
Phil
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV RALLY/NEW YARIS CONVERSION
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:37:56 -0700
I will be attending the rally this weekend in Palo Alto with several
curious friends, and a group of EV owners and It would be great if It were
possible to meet some of the list attendees, not sure how that would work
logistically- perhaps I could strap a battery to my head or something.
It's good to place a face to an e-mail address.
I purchased an 07' Toyota Yaris to be converted and will be seeking advice
here on the list in the months to come. This is a brand new car with
about 100 miles, anyone know a good place to sell a new 1500cc motor? It's
a 5-speed, three door, 2300 lbs and I hope to make it a good conversion
with all your advice. Since I can't decide on AC or DC I will be running
AC on the front and DC on the back- just kidding....
Thanks,
Mark Dutko
San Francisco
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In response to
" I want actual new pieces you can buy for you to prove
your point. If you can't, it kind of blows your argument to
shreds. So where are they? Inquiring minds want to know?"
and
"That is not true. Tell me one thing you can't do
with a DC motor/controller that you can an AC one? "
I have DC so, don't get me wrong, but I just thought of 2.5
Drive thru deep puddles of water without worry of damage from water
ingress and thermal shock, ie dunking hot motor in cold water repeatedly.
reasonable on road power with regen.
And no shifting.
I think Induction motors and drives need to be made more powerful and
cheaper
and I think the series wound motor needs to become more automotive friendly
I would say that a sealed unit with water cooled outside and a remote
blower with a filter and exhaust above conceivable water line, and an
adjustable brush rigging and dual motor setup Would make a higher
efficiency "DC" EV, but that still doesn't add regen which would help
stop these heavy beasts.
But this may not matter to us hobbiest, the infiltration of the BLDC
motors and controllers into the wrecking yards may make BLDC a viable
option. The BLDC motors are used on the honda insight and civic hybrid
(BLDC not BLAC cause these are Salient pole inner rotor PM motors).
Imagein converting an insight by stacking 4 BLDC rotors and ganging 4
Inverters to one throttle. A few hundred A123 cells to augment the
hybrid pack and you have a sweet EV.
Guess I better go buy another lottery ticket :-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not until someone pulls out the automatic tranny...
--- bortel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On eBay, item # 280031302657
> Looks like an electric waiting to happen.
> Dan
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn;
I find if kind of ironic that you just posted this. I was about to write a
response to the thread from a couple of days ago.
The thread mentioned something about 1000-2000hp.
My response was going to be something like.....
Speaking of 1000-2000 hp.... Awhile back Shawn Lawless was talking about
building an electric Nextel Cup type car, haven't heard from him since, or
John D for that matter..... Anybody know what they're up to?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:37 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference
Announcement
> - Save the date
>
> Shawn,
>
> Thanks for your continued efforts to bring A great mid-winter race to the
ev
> enthusiasts.
> Our 2006 racing effort was unacceptable. Missing your race and Power of
DC
> both has left an empty feeling inside.
> Being busy with other projects is no excuse for not competing. It won't
> happen in 2007.
> I have just circled your date on my calender as a target to introduce the
> new dragster from Lawless Industries.
> See you there....
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
http://www.evsource.com - Professional EV components and resources
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought I share some battery prices I just got.
PLP Battery Supply in Murphysboro, IL.
Still trying to decide on my pack set-up.
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm
Odyssey PC1200 - 44AH $128
Odyssey PC1500 - 65AH $163 Cheapest per Lb.
Odyssey PC1700 - 68AH $198
Odyssey PC2150 - 100AH $245 Cheapest per AH
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C6E2FE.0B4EE4FC"
Subject: Odyssey Battery Prices
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:00:16 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Thread-Topic: Odyssey Battery Prices
Thread-Index: Acbi/guFsveKkwZyR1GV2cG+HHKjBw==
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion Group--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:33:20 -0400
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> Ben,
>
> Your Bus is a seriously nice conversion. With two ac clutches you
> literally have a mechanical regen! Very sweet. The whole thing is just
> too neat and tidy. You should be banned :)
>
> Mike
>
Yep , that's a very nice job , any chance of seeing you at Battery Beach
Brun out this year , Its not just drag racing we had a day full of EV stuff
, and this year is looking even better. Charles Whalen has been setting up
the "electric car hi way" and could probable find you charging along the
way.
Steve Clunn
To: [email protected]
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Subject: Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference Announceme nt -
Save
the date
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:51:02 -0400
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Hump,
The Cup car project was for a new movie. Liability issues were just too
great to overcome and the project was refined to "look" fast and have
realistic engine sound instead. We built two of these chassis. One is
on moving display in Orlando, FL and one in Anaheim, CA on a daily
basis. As a consolation prize one of the actual cup cars was themed for
the Charlotte race the day after the movie premier.
You can see a photo at the link below:
http://home.att.net/~disneysue/characters/wdw/lightning.html
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference
Announceme nt - Save the date
Shawn;
I find if kind of ironic that you just posted this. I was about to
write a
response to the thread from a couple of days ago.
The thread mentioned something about 1000-2000hp.
My response was going to be something like.....
Speaking of 1000-2000 hp.... Awhile back Shawn Lawless was talking about
building an electric Nextel Cup type car, haven't heard from him since,
or
John D for that matter..... Anybody know what they're up to?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 8:37 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference
Announcement
> - Save the date
>
> Shawn,
>
> Thanks for your continued efforts to bring A great mid-winter race to
the
ev
> enthusiasts.
> Our 2006 racing effort was unacceptable. Missing your race and Power
of
DC
> both has left an empty feeling inside.
> Being busy with other projects is no excuse for not competing. It
won't
> happen in 2007.
> I have just circled your date on my calender as a target to introduce
the
> new dragster from Lawless Industries.
> See you there....
>
> Shawn Lawless
>
>
>
__________________________________________________________________
http://www.evsource.com - Professional EV components and resources
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From: "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Found my donor car - needs heat
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 09:57:18 -0400
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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That car is in rough shape.
Perhaps all the EV equipment would be worth it. Too bad it's 3000 miles
away.
I can't wait to get my hands on my 914!!
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:13 AM
To: Michael Trefry
Subject: Re: Found my donor car - needs heat
> I found my donor car!!!!
>
> And I'm picking it up this weekend.
>
> A 1972 Porsche 914 in excellent condition, running, very little
rust, just a
> spot on the engine mount bar.
>
Might want to watch this ebay auction, at least for info:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270033137063
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From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: YARIS CONVERSION
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:15:23 -0700
To: [email protected]
Thanks Phil!
The more info the better. I was curious about a few items:
Are you using the AC and if so, how?
I knew the engine was light but I thought it would be a slight bit
more, what was the total weight of your removed parts?
Did you use power steering? Mine is electric- not sure if that can be
used.
Any pictures you may have would be great and where are you located?
Thanks,
Mark
On Sep 28, 2006, at 5:40 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
>
> HI, Mark
>
> Congratulations on your project. Since you're starting with such a
> great car as a donor, that will make a real difference in the final
> conversion.
>
> I'm about 75% completed with an Echo ( 01) conversion, and, I
> believe the chassis are similar if not identical. I think they're
> great cars - we have two ICE Echos, in addition to the conversion-
> in-progress.
>
> About the engine. This may be true of all Toyotas, but I could not
> find a buyer for the original ICE engine. These engines show up
> occasionally on Ebay, but never seem to sell. A local Toyota
> repair place/juhkyard told me that, until the cars are several
> years old, and someone occasionally blows an engine by neglecting
> the keep oil in it, no one ever needs a new Toyota engine. He
> offered me $100.00, so I decided just to keep it.
>
> So, mine just sits in the corner of my garage for now.
>
> One thing that worked out easy ( and cheap) for me was upgrading
> the suspension. The Scion XB has the same chassis as the Echo
> ( and, I assume, the Yaris), The rear XB springs are 41% stiffer
> than the Echos, are drop-in replacements, and can be found cheap on
> Ebay. ( since many Xb owners upgrade their suspensions). I bought
> a new ( 10 miles old) set of XB rear springs and shocks on Ebay for
> $9.99 plus shipping, and they were very easy to install.
>
> One thing I found frustrating on the Echo is this: I weighed every
> ICE component I took out, to keep track of the conversion weight,
> and I was always disappointed out how little the ICE parts
> weighed. For example, the engine ( without manifolds) was only 146
> lbs. And, the gross vehicle weight is not very high, so it's not
> easy to keep the weight within those limits.
>
> I have 13 golf cart batteries ( 8VGCs) for a total battery weight
> equal to 30% of the final curb weight. That is just about a useful
> minimum. In addition to the weight limitiations, space is limited,
> especially under the hood. Also, since I have 1 inch or more of
> foam insulation in all three battery boxes, that makes it even more
> difficult.
> I have three battery boxes - two batts in a box where the original
> radiator was, three in a box above the motor, and 8 in a box sunken
> halfway into the trunk floor. I'll have about 100 more pounds of
> the front axle than stock, and about 400 more pounds of the rear
> axle than stock.
>
> I'm using an ADC 8 incher, with a conventional adapter, keeping the
> tranny and clutch. Since two of the original engine mounts were on
> the tranny, I only had to make a single adapter to go between the
> end of the motor and the original top engine mount. The motor fits
> ( lengthwise) in the engine compartment with about an inch to
> spare. So, motor installation was pretty straightforward. I made
> the hub on a friend's lathe, and made the adapter plate out of 1/2
> inch aluminum. I've also got a 1 1/2 inch thick aluminum spacer
> ring between the motor and the 1/2 inch thick plate.
>
> I'm using a Curtis 1221C under the hood. Finding a good place for
> it was difficult because of the limited space, but finally I have a
> good spot - both accessible and with (I believe) good air flow for
> cooling.
>
> I don't want to ramble on too much, but feel free to ask anything
> if questions come up. Soon, (I hope) I'll have some pictures
> posted. Let us know how things are going.
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>> From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: [email protected]
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: EV RALLY/NEW YARIS CONVERSION
>> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 17:37:56 -0700
>>
>> I will be attending the rally this weekend in Palo Alto with
>> several curious friends, and a group of EV owners and It would be
>> great if It were possible to meet some of the list attendees, not
>> sure how that would work logistically- perhaps I could strap a
>> battery to my head or something. It's good to place a face to an
>> e-mail address.
>>
>> I purchased an 07' Toyota Yaris to be converted and will be
>> seeking advice here on the list in the months to come. This is a
>> brand new car with about 100 miles, anyone know a good place to
>> sell a new 1500cc motor? It's a 5-speed, three door, 2300 lbs and
>> I hope to make it a good conversion with all your advice. Since I
>> can't decide on AC or DC I will be running AC on the front and DC
>> on the back- just kidding....
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mark Dutko
>> San Francisco
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to
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>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:17:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Cheepee EV parts
To: [email protected]
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Hi,
I found some cheepee EV parts (cause I'm cheep) and thought others might be
interested.
I used a couple stock number 15831-RL contactors for $3.50 ea from
www.mpja.com for my heater and initial run contactor to power the DC converter
& accessories in my E-Jeep at 120V, Cushman & Bombardier at 72V. I wired the 3
contacts in series and put a MOV V14E130 (130vac, 170vdc) across the contacts
and havn't seen any arcing. Although the coil is rated at 24Vdc it pulls in
fine (when mounted vertically) at 12Vdc.
They also have stock number 15539-QT 200A Siemens IGBT's for $30ea with
snubber diode for those making their own controllers. 6ea work well with a
smashed flat 3/4" copper water pipe bus bar & 1200A diodes with 12K uf 105c low
ESR snap in caps.
www.fairradio.com has 500A (50mv meter movement) current meters for measuring
battery & motor amps for $10 each stock number ADC-500. They also sell shunts
but you can wire across about 1' of the #2 battery wiring & calibrate with an
amp probe. (Use double the guage of course for the 2x motor current to
controller cabling.)
www.allelectronics.com also has cheap current meters & shunts as well as a
Get Smart shoe phone for $15.
BTW, looks like my ZEV Cushman won't sell due to the low gas prices, may have
to relist on Ebay after the election when they go up again.
Have a renewable energy day,
Mark
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:20:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: AC vs DC? What if Tesla motors used a DC motor?
To: [email protected]
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I bet if the people at Tesla Motors chose a DC motor
for their car, they would have named the company
Edison motors. :-)
<snip>
> > > Tesla Motors is using wound-rotor motor, most of
> the hybrids on the
> > > market are using synchronous three-phase motors.
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:32:28 -0000
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "jerryd" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: AC vs DC?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I had the same dimela once. What to chose from. AC or DC. After
pricing the kits and looking at the work involved, I had a long talk
with myself. With a cnc in my garage I could even make the adapter
plate and many other parts. But since DC will cost maybe $9k and AC
even more, and many months of work, both were losers. So I went
hunting for a non running vehicle to repair. Found 2 AC vehicles.
$8500 for the pair. 4700 miles both vehicles added together. Both had
built in chargers. Both could talk to a cheap laptop. So I bought one
of them and made it run. Infinitely better choice *for me* than
building an EV, even though I have the skills and tools to build one.
There are alot of orphaned AC ev's that need to be repaired out there.
Most of them are under 10k miles. Some even have air conditioning.
There are so many of them that it's a viable alternative to building.
Tip: Owning something is not the same as reading about it.
Mike
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:37:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: AC vs DC? What if Tesla motors used a DC motor?
To: [email protected]
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Maybe not. Nikola Tesla inveted the commutator in 1886. Look up Patent
334,823 at www.uspto.gov for an interesting read.
Jeff
Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I bet if the people at Tesla Motors chose a DC motor
for their car, they would have named the company
Edison motors. :-)
> > > Tesla Motors is using wound-rotor motor, most of
> the hybrids on the
> > > market are using synchronous three-phase motors.
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Subject: RE: Found my donor car - needs heat
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:54:55 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
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I don't think Stan is on the list anymore but here the link to his EV
album page... http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/43
John Grigg
Mr. Death to All Spammers said:
Might want to watch this ebay auction, at least for info:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2700331370
63
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EV RALLY/NEW YARIS CONVERSION
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:12:00 -0400
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----- Original Message -----
From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> I purchased an 07' Toyota Yaris to be converted and will be seeking
> advice here on the list in the months to come.
way to go Mark , Talk about starting with somthing nice :-) . It's funny
how most non EV'es think you should convert some old rusted out piece of
juck. Any one who has done this , will tell you "don't, start with somthing
good " . Your on the righ path , when done you'll have a nice car . What
kind of gas milage dose this car get . Steve Clunn
This is a brand new
> car with about 100 miles, anyone know a good place to sell a new 1500cc
> motor? It's a 5-speed, three door, 2300 lbs and I hope to make it a good
> conversion with all your advice. Since I can't decide on AC or DC I will
> be running AC on the front and DC on the back- just kidding....
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Dutko
> San Francisco
>
>
--- End Message ---
