EV Digest 5934
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) AC vs DC
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) 2000 Ford: Ranger (Re: Donor)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference Announcement - Save
the date
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV RALLY/NEW YARIS CONVERSION
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Did someone say cheap EV!! Re: Cheapest not most efficient ev
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: bad boy charger questions - efficiency vs power factor
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by "bortel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Ranger doner
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric Mowers, was 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer
Conference Announcement - Save the date
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) CE on TV
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Renew's EV articles (Re: Article on EVs ...)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ranger doner
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Osmo S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: CE on TV
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: AC vs DC?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference Announcement - Save
the date
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: YARIS CONVERSION
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: YARIS CONVERSION
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yesterday a point was raised that AC motor controllers are less efficient than
DC motor controllers. I assume this was in regards to the fact that the AC
controller (called an inverter) uses 2 switches (transistors) in series with
the armature. And the DC controller uses only one. Each silicon switch
(Mosfet, IGBT, SCR, etc) has a voltage drop and therefore current dependant
conduction losses. So, it would appear that the AC controller would have twice
the amount of these losses as would the DC counterpart.
The AC controller uses a switch on each side of the armature so that the
polarity of the armaure can be reversed, which reverses the current through the
armature coils and amounts to electronic commutation. It will also use one or
both of these switches to modulate and control voltage and current to the
armature.
The DC controller uses the single switch in series with the armature to
control the voltage applied (and current) through modulation. It relies on the
commutator and brushes inside the DC motor to commutate (reverse current) in
the armature coils. The DC motor commutation requires 2 fixed carbon
brushes,one postitive and one negative, and a rotating copper commutator. Each
of the brushes is in series with the armature. Each has a current dependant
electrical loss as well as a speed dependant frictional loss. Each can be
viewed as a carbon-copper switch.
If you consider the AC vs DC systems and just not the controller box, you see
that the AC system has two silicon switches in series with the armature and the
DC system has one silicon switch and two carbon-copper switches in series with
the armautre. AC has 2, DC has 3. And I think the silicon switch will have
less loss than the carbon-copper switch.
So the statement that DC controllers are more efficient than AC controllers
may not be incorrect, it fails to address the system, and that is what really
counts.
Jeff
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The interior and exterior looked pretty good, so I gave Dene Koons
(509) 735-0130 call. He said basically the ICE is shot. He said the
interior is a little rough (possibly meaning some wear).
There are plenty of Ranger trucks on the EV album to look at and
see some system designs and their performance specs.
-
Manual method: bring up ebay.com , paste 280031302657 in the search
box.
Long direct URL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Fcgiurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com%252Fws%252F%26fkr%3D1%26from%3DR8%26satitle%3D280031302657%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1&item=280031302657#ebayphotohosting
Ford Ranger 2000 Pickup
$85 Documentation Fee Charged on all Vehicles
As pictured
Vehicle does not run
Engine does not run (has thrown a rod)
V6 3.0 litre engine
Overall poor condition
Completeness unknown
Location - 4310 W. 24th, Kennewick, WA 99338
Contact - Dene Koons (509) 735-0130
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Being busy with other projects is no excuse for not competing. It won't
happen in 2007.
Hi Shawn Lawless , I think of you often when using my EV mower , seeing your
mower and your ( along with Rod Howard and some others ) words of
encouragement got me to take the plunge , Its been a great summer for me ,
the mower has worked wonderful and has seen a lot of use as I have over 50
accounts . I'm sorry to say that the interest from other lawn men is just
not there . I'm very surprised at this , as the ev cars and truck are quite
the attention getters but I'm afraid lawn men are thinking of only one thing
, "get the job done" . The mower has worked out even better than the cars
and trucks as the gas engines on lawn mower cost much more to run than a car
gas motors and only last 3 years , and the dirt and dust means new air
cleaners every week , and cleaning out air ways everyday. I love the hi
toque of the electric motor for grass cutting / and not having to do all the
gas engine related maintenance is wonderful .
Hope to see you at BBB
Steve clunn
I have just circled your date on my calender as a target to introduce the
new dragster from Lawless Industries.
See you there....
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:21 PM
Subject: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference Announcement -
Save the date
Hi Everyone,
The dates are now set for both the 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and the EAA
6th EVer Conference!
The FL EAA chapter will be holding the second annual Battery Beach Burnout
Friday January 26th & 27th and the 6th EVer Conference Sunday January 28th
2007. The Battery Beach Burnout is the Southeast’s premier EV competition.
Events will include drag racing, autcrossing, show-n-shine, technical
competitions and new for this year, range events and scootercross! The
EVer
conference is the National conference for all the EAA chapters.
Both events will be organized by the FL EAA and held in Jupiter, FL.
Jupiter
is located in the West Palm Beach area of South FL.
Tentative Schedule of Events:
Friday January 26th 6PM BBB Drag Race at Moroso Motorsports Park in
Jupiter,
FL.
- EV Drag Racing from 6PM till 1AM, Midnight Madness type event.
Saturday January 27th BBB other events at Florida Atlantic University
(FAU),
Jupiter Campus (All Day – starting at 9:30AM)
- EV Autocross
- EV Scootercross
- EV Show-N-Shine
- EV Range Event
- Other competitions to be announced
- Saturday night will be a EV Social Event and possible cookout
Sunday January 28th Conference Florida Atlantic University (FAU), Jupiter
Campus (All Day – starting at 9:30AM)
- EVer Conference
- EV Displays
The theme for this years Conference will be Education. This will encompass
Programs for High Schools and Colleges, Public Education and Awareness,
and
EV Workshops. There is talk of adding a couple of other topics, but the
overall focus will be education. If you are interested in speaking at the
Conference or have suggestions, please contact me (address and phone
listed
below).
If you are interested in being a sponsor, or are interested in competing
at
any of the BBB events, please contact Matt Graham (772-215-6180 or matt at
suncoast.net).
More information will be posted on the FL EAA website (www.floridaeaa.org)
in the next few days. Please keep checking the website for updates. There
will be a registration form on the website for both events in the next
week.
Thanks – look forward to seeing everyone in January!!!
Shawn M. Waggoner
President, Florida EAA
www.floridaeaa.org
8343 Blue Cypress Dr.
Lake Worth, FL 33467
USA
Mobile: (561) 543-9223
Fax: (888) 909-8785
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web,
free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message ----- From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I purchased an 07' Toyota Yaris to be converted and will be seeking
advice here on the list in the months to come.
This is a brand new
car with about 100 miles, anyone know a good place to sell a
new 1500cc motor? It's a 5-speed, three
Hmm, that might make a good generator if all the emissions and
exhaust systems are kept with it....
Tempting.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One powerful thing to be said for low cost- if you think hard enough, often
there is an elegent solution as the result.
-Ralph
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:35:46 -0700
Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I love low-cost engineering problems, because, well I can't do high-cost
> ones.. but one thing you learn is there is cheap, and there is
> cost-effective, you want the latter, because only cheap will end up
> costing you more money. used batteries at the junk yard will work, but
> not for very long.
> Whenever you talk low-cost, this always involves used parts.
> A motorcycle is the way to go for low cost. no reverse needed, small
> motor, small batteries.
> Jack
>
>
> jerryd wrote:
> > Hi Dave and all,
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message Follows -----
> > From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Did someone say cheap EV!! Re: Cheapest not
> > most efficient ev
> > Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >
> >>--- jerryd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>from something dead like a VW bug one, any series motor
> >>>of 3 hp or more like 2 from golfcarts or a forklift motor
> >>
> >>for a
> >>
> >>Jerry
> >>
> >>I misread you comment, but that got me thinking about
> >>another approach to the NEV 3 wheeler. I started thinking
> >>about 2 wheel motors in the front without any steering
> >>mechanism. Use the two motors to steer like a Big mowing
> >>deck, like Steve C. uses. The downside is you'd need two
> >>motors and two controllers, but they could be lighter duty.
> >>The rear wheel is just a caster to keep your butt off the
> >>ground. Might not be great on the highway, but would be
> >>excellent for tight parking. Almost zero turning radius. Or
> >>has this already been shown to be a bad idea?
> >
> >
> > It's excellent for tight manuvering like inside a
> > home but once over about 10 mph, things can go very bad,
> > very quickly so you really don't want to go that way.
> > A MC front wheel with a golf cart transaxle makes a
> > great up to 50mph EV at a very low cost would be a much
> > better bet.
> > And as a MC, you are not limited to the restrited
> > areas a NEV must stay in. I'd never build an NEV, rather the
> > GC trke or a EV bike/trike instead so I can go anywhere
> > legally. One of my EV bike size trike had a 50 mile range at
> > 20 mph!
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> >
> >
> >>Dave Cover
> >>
> >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil,
Power Factor it is.
I stand/sit corrected.
It doesn't get too hot, but I'm sure part is innefficiency? and the most
would be power factor.
Ben
>Do you really mean 65% efficiency? Or, are you talking about the power
>factor?
>
>If you're really getting only 65% efficiency, then, since you're putting
>about 2350 watts into the batteries (156V x 15 amps), you would be
>dissipating half of that, or about 1200 watts, in heat somewhere in the
>charger. That's a lot of heat- about what you would get from a space
>heater.
>
>If you're basing that 65% number on measuring AC amps into the charger,
and
>comparing it to DC power into the batteries, then you're talking about
power
>factor, and not efficiency. In that case, the poor power factor limits
the
>charging current you can produce before tripping the breaker, but it isn't
>really low efficiency, where a lot of power would be wasted as heat.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Pivco/Think City used some kind of a really slick packaged electric heat
pump. Does anyone know where to obtain one of these (new or used)? I would
think they could be imported from Europe.
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There used to be a company in Fargo that made a top that went from the cab down
to the top of the rear gate. I thought about finding a Lumina van, since they
look like they would awesome doners (fiberglass body and lots of battry room
underneath with a clean underside) but I opted for the truck as I wanted the
full cargo space and easy workability.
I've seen several conversions that have tilt-up beds for battery access. How is
that accomplished?
-Ralph
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 05:28:42 -0000
"Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I don't doubt it. The aero drag is actually a difference of air
> > pressure on the front and back. Most people tend to only think the
> > increase in pressure in the front is significant, but the decrease in
> > pressure in back is often quite significant. The large, flat area
> > behind the cab is a problem. With the gate up, there's less of a
> > pressure drop behind the cab because the air doesn't have to turn
> > suddenly in its path.
> >
>
> There are actual government test that prove you should leave the
> tailgate up - too lazy to look for them right now, but *someone* got
> paid to prove this! Once you hear the reason for it, it does make
> logical sense, bt you have to look at the vehicle as a whole, not just
> the tailgate as a single part of it.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, I totally agree with you on the wonderful features of electric
mowers. I did a rider several years ago and was quite happy with it. I also
had an epiphany that went like this. I thought that gardening should not be
obnoxious nor noxious. What a concept heh! :-) Well I also converted my walk
behind rototiller. It is so nice to not get the nerve damage in your hands
from the vibration and they are quiet enough to run a nice stereo system to
listen to while tilling.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference
Announcement - Save the date
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Being busy with other projects is no excuse for not competing. It won't
happen in 2007.
Hi Shawn Lawless , I think of you often when using my EV mower , seeing your
mower and your ( along with Rod Howard and some others ) words of
encouragement got me to take the plunge , Its been a great summer for me ,
the mower has worked wonderful and has seen a lot of use as I have over 50
accounts . I'm sorry to say that the interest from other lawn men is just
not there . I'm very surprised at this , as the ev cars and truck are quite
the attention getters but I'm afraid lawn men are thinking of only one thing
, "get the job done" . The mower has worked out even better than the cars
and trucks as the gas engines on lawn mower cost much more to run than a car
gas motors and only last 3 years , and the dirt and dust means new air
cleaners every week , and cleaning out air ways everyday. I love the hi
toque of the electric motor for grass cutting / and not having to do all the
gas engine related maintenance is wonderful .
Hope to see you at BBB
Steve clunn
I have just circled your date on my calender as a target to introduce the
new dragster from Lawless Industries.
See you there....
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:21 PM
Subject: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference Announcement -
Save the date
Hi Everyone,
The dates are now set for both the 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and the EAA
6th EVer Conference!
The FL EAA chapter will be holding the second annual Battery Beach Burnout
Friday January 26th & 27th and the 6th EVer Conference Sunday January 28th
2007. The Battery Beach Burnout is the Southeast’s premier EV competition.
Events will include drag racing, autcrossing, show-n-shine, technical
competitions and new for this year, range events and scootercross! The
EVer
conference is the National conference for all the EAA chapters.
Both events will be organized by the FL EAA and held in Jupiter, FL.
Jupiter
is located in the West Palm Beach area of South FL.
Tentative Schedule of Events:
Friday January 26th 6PM BBB Drag Race at Moroso Motorsports Park in
Jupiter,
FL.
- EV Drag Racing from 6PM till 1AM, Midnight Madness type event.
Saturday January 27th BBB other events at Florida Atlantic University
(FAU),
Jupiter Campus (All Day – starting at 9:30AM)
- EV Autocross
- EV Scootercross
- EV Show-N-Shine
- EV Range Event
- Other competitions to be announced
- Saturday night will be a EV Social Event and possible cookout
Sunday January 28th Conference Florida Atlantic University (FAU), Jupiter
Campus (All Day – starting at 9:30AM)
- EVer Conference
- EV Displays
The theme for this years Conference will be Education. This will encompass
Programs for High Schools and Colleges, Public Education and Awareness,
and
EV Workshops. There is talk of adding a couple of other topics, but the
overall focus will be education. If you are interested in speaking at the
Conference or have suggestions, please contact me (address and phone
listed
below).
If you are interested in being a sponsor, or are interested in competing
at
any of the BBB events, please contact Matt Graham (772-215-6180 or matt at
suncoast.net).
More information will be posted on the FL EAA website (www.floridaeaa.org)
in the next few days. Please keep checking the website for updates. There
will be a registration form on the website for both events in the next
week.
Thanks – look forward to seeing everyone in January!!!
Shawn M. Waggoner
President, Florida EAA
www.floridaeaa.org
8343 Blue Cypress Dr.
Lake Worth, FL 33467
USA
Mobile: (561) 543-9223
Fax: (888) 909-8785
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web,
free AOL Mail and more.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
here is a link to the feature done on Dennis and his CE
http://kuat.org/arizonaillustrated/details.cfm?ID=192
Congratulations Dennis and good luck at the finals!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I will assume that you are not
familiar with building a website or how to upload files. I see on
your EValbum listing http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/749 from your
email address domain bigpond.net.au that you are using an Aussie
ISP www.bigpond.com.au . I assume that you are using one of their
dial up or better connections.
Their description of services page
http://www.bigpond.com/whybigpond/default.asp states that you as a
user have the ability to create a personal web site:
'
Personal Website:
http://bigpond.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/bigpond.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=759&p_search_text=personal+website
Every BigPond Member has the option of creating their own website,
with no establishment fee, no monthly charge, up to 10MB of disk
space and up to 100MB of data served per month11.
[...] 11. Unused data forfeited each month. Additional fees apply
if allowance is exceeded.
'
Your persoanl web site URL would be
http://users.bigpond.net.au/dsh63475/ which currently does not
have a default page (index.html) set up.
Though your .3Mb pdf is well with in the 10 Mb file storage
limitation of your personal web site, the 100MB of data transfers
(how many people bringing up your page or pulling down the pdf)
might be exceeded. The *11 clause said you would get dinged $ if
that happened.
There are freebee sites with out pop-ups that have 500 Mb or higher
transfer limits (i.e.: www.6te.net ) that you could consider if
that were to happen. You would just move your web site to one of
those other web hosts.
Setting up your web site is basically:
- Find out how to connect to your site to transfer files up to it
(a data transfer usually via ftp or by a web page)
- Create a simple web page (in html or xhtml) that has a link to
your pdf file(s)
- Then both that page and your pdf file would be copied up to the
web site
Once it is up there, people would bring up your web page and click
on the link to download the pdf file. Once downloaded the file
would open locally on their PC if they have installed a pdf viewer.
If you need help setting a web site up, either one of our EVListers
or myself can help you. An offline dialogue would be best to get
this going for you.
-
[ref
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/76105
]
Article on EVs-moderator to comment please
I have permission to post Renew's article on 2 EVs in Australia in
a month
or two. I don't have my own web. What is the most appropriate way
of letting
the list see the story? It is 300kB pdf.
David Sharpe
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See http://www.coate.org/jim/ev/et/tilt_bed.html
and ask them how they did it.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who has a mechanical regen?
What does it store with?
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 6:43 am, steve clunn wrote:
Ben,
Your Bus is a seriously nice conversion. With two ac clutches you
literally have a mechanical regen! Very sweet. The whole thing is just
too neat and tidy. You should be banned :)
Mike
Yep , that's a very nice job , any chance of seeing you at Battery
Beach Brun out this year , Its not just drag racing we had a day full
of EV stuff , and this year is looking even better. Charles Whalen has
been setting up the "electric car hi way" and could probable find you
charging along the way.
Steve Clunn
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don´t know who sells them, but here´s the manufacturer:
http://www.glacierbay.com/Pivco.asp
http://www.glacierbay.com/darpatxt.asp
Osmo
bortel kirjoitti 28.9.2006 kello 19.21:
The Pivco/Think City used some kind of a really slick packaged
electric heat
pump. Does anyone know where to obtain one of these (new or used)?
I would
think they could be imported from Europe.
Dan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Rush so much for posting this link. This is fanatic EV PR. Very well
done Dennis and much congratulations. Go get em!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:45 AM
Subject: CE on TV
here is a link to the feature done on Dennis and his CE
http://kuat.org/arizonaillustrated/details.cfm?ID=192
Congratulations Dennis and good luck at the finals!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What is a Pinto? Just kidding but that was a long time ago
> and their are other examples older starting with the
> Corvair to the Explorer & Firestone tires.
Sure; the Pinto is just one of several examples. It wasn't that long
ago, certainly all of these are well within the 75 years window you
mentioned in your post.
> So if safety and defending a 500 million law suit is not a
> deciding factor saving money is?
Safety is absolutely *not* a factor; corporations are not motivated by
ethics. Whether they admit it or allow it to be documented,
corporations will perform some sort of cost/benefit analysis to
determine what route they will take. While the amounts of money we see
handed out in a few well-publicised lawsuits may seem like a lot, they
may in fact be considerably less than what it would have cost the
manufacturer had they instead spent $100 or $200 more on each of a few
million vehicles. If the cost of building additional safety into a
vehicle is greater than the predicted cost of leaving it out, it will be
left out. If the prediction is accurate, the company comes out ahead.
> So using this theory the only reason GM, Ford, Toyota,
> Solectria and others used an AC drive system is they
> cost less to build. Since there was only 3 or 4
> thousand recent electric vehicles built by all the
> manufacturers it does not have to be that large of a
> production run for AC systems to cost less.
Not at all. I think the number of production EVs was well under the
3000-4000 you suggest. I don't know what factors determined the drive
types used in the production EVs, but am certainly of the opinion that
none of these manufacturers ever intended to build EVs for production or
sale. What motivates a manufacturer for a low volume 'demo' project is
likely to be entirely different from what motivates them for a high
volume production run. Bear in mind that the manufacturers only built
Evs to satisfy the CA mandate that essentially said something like each
manufacturer had to place a certain fraction of their CA sales volume as
ZEVs or they would not be allowed to sell vehicles in CA. So, given the
large number of vehicles (and associated profit) that a manufacturer
such as GM stood to lose if they were unable to place the required # of
ZEVs, it makes sense that they would try to make a vehicle with as many
bells and whistles as possible so that it would have the greatest appeal
to prospective 'customers'. When you are only planning to make the bare
minimum # of vehicles (like 1000 for GM, 300 for Toyota, etc.), unit
cost is not much of an issue. And, by satisfying the ZEV quota the
manufacturer reaps the benefit of all of the profit associated with not
losing their non-ZEV sales in CA. It is still all about money, you just
have to look at the bigger picture.
Remember, some manufacturers *gave* away ZEVs (NEVs) in CA to get the
associated credits. Something like a GEM NEV retails in the
neighbourhood of $10k; even if its cost to the manufacturer is half of
this, that is a significant amount of money for an auto manufacturer to
give away, and makes little sense until you consider the much greater
benefit that the manufacturer realised as a result.
> If one believes AC systems do not have advantages over DC
> then manufacturers are just being frugal?
I'm not sure anyone has state that AC systems do not have any advantage
over DC systems; in fact, my last post specifically stated that I
believe that AC systems *do* have advantages that would make them more
attractive choices for vehicles destined for the masses.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, I know how you feel. It's like a little brotherhood of EV mower
men (and women). I can't give you all the details right now but the
ZEROMOW project is moving forward toward production.
Tis true that it will not be for everyone, (There is good reason why I
drive a diesel powered 1 ton pickup that I have no plans to convert).
But there IS a substantial market right now and we will begin filling
it asap. Being knee deep in the Lawn and Garden industry the past year
I can tell you that the luke warm response you may be getting from some
is no different than the attitudes toward any other design difference
that a competitors model might have. A little bit of blade length envy
I suppose. Much of what I hear at trade shows are things like "Did you
see that tilting deck, or suspended caster, or automatic steering,
etc...". "That will never work!". I'm glad your mower has brought you
as much joy as mine has to myself. In the near future I hope to be
bringing this joy to tens, hundreds, (maybe even thousands) more.
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference
Announcement - Save the date
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Being busy with other projects is no excuse for not competing. It
won't > happen in 2007.
Hi Shawn Lawless , I think of you often when using my EV mower , seeing
your mower and your ( along with Rod Howard and some others ) words of
encouragement got me to take the plunge , Its been a great summer for
me , the mower has worked wonderful and has seen a lot of use as I have
over 50 accounts . I'm sorry to say that the interest from other lawn
men is just not there . I'm very surprised at this , as the ev cars and
truck are quite the attention getters but I'm afraid lawn men are
thinking of only one thing , "get the job done" . The mower has worked
out even better than the cars and trucks as the gas engines on lawn
mower cost much more to run than a car gas motors and only last 3 years
, and the dirt and dust means new air cleaners every week , and
cleaning out air ways everyday. I love the hi toque of the electric
motor for grass cutting / and not having to do all the gas engine
related maintenance is wonderful .
Hope to see you at BBB
Steve clunn
I have just circled your date on my calender as a target to introduce
the > new dragster from Lawless Industries.
See you there....
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:21 PM
Subject: 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and 6th EVer Conference
Announcement - > Save the date
Hi Everyone,
The dates are now set for both the 2007 Battery Beach Burnout and the
EAA
6th EVer Conference!
The FL EAA chapter will be holding the second annual Battery Beach
Burnout
Friday January 26th & 27th and the 6th EVer Conference Sunday January
28th
2007. The Battery Beach Burnout is the Southeast’s premier EV
competition.
Events will include drag racing, autcrossing, show-n-shine, technical
competitions and new for this year, range events and scootercross!
The > EVer
conference is the National conference for all the EAA chapters.
Both events will be organized by the FL EAA and held in Jupiter, FL.
Jupiter
is located in the West Palm Beach area of South FL.
Tentative Schedule of Events:
Friday January 26th 6PM BBB Drag Race at Moroso Motorsports Park in >
Jupiter,
FL.
- EV Drag Racing from 6PM till 1AM, Midnight Madness type event.
Saturday January 27th BBB other events at Florida Atlantic University
(FAU),
Jupiter Campus (All Day – starting at 9:30AM)
- EV Autocross
- EV Scootercross
- EV Show-N-Shine
- EV Range Event
- Other competitions to be announced
- Saturday night will be a EV Social Event and possible cookout
Sunday January 28th Conference Florida Atlantic University (FAU),
Jupiter
Campus (All Day – starting at 9:30AM)
- EVer Conference
- EV Displays
The theme for this years Conference will be Education. This will
encompass
Programs for High Schools and Colleges, Public Education and
Awareness, > and
EV Workshops. There is talk of adding a couple of other topics, but
the
overall focus will be education. If you are interested in speaking at
the
Conference or have suggestions, please contact me (address and phone
listed
below).
If you are interested in being a sponsor, or are interested in
competing > at
any of the BBB events, please contact Matt Graham (772-215-6180 or
matt at
suncoast.net).
More information will be posted on the FL EAA website
(www.floridaeaa.org)
in the next few days. Please keep checking the website for updates.
There
will be a registration form on the website for both events in the
next > week.
Thanks – look forward to seeing everyone in January!!!
Shawn M. Waggoner
President, Florida EAA
www.floridaeaa.org
8343 Blue Cypress Dr.
Lake Worth, FL 33467
USA
Mobile: (561) 543-9223
Fax: (888) 909-8785
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security > tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, > free AOL Mail and more.
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: YARIS CONVERSION
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:15:23 -0700
Thanks Phil!
The more info the better. I was curious about a few items:
Are you using the AC and if so, how?
I knew the engine was light but I thought it would be a slight bit more,
what was the total weight of your removed parts?
Did you use power steering? Mine is electric- not sure if that can be
used.
Any pictures you may have would be great and where are you located?
Thanks,
Mark
HI, Mark
I'm in Rochester, NY. You're on the West Coast, right??
I'm not using the AC at all. Until a few years ago, I drove a car with no
AC, so I'm still kind of used to it. Being up here near the lake (Ontario)
helps a bit, and I figure I'll never be in the car for a long time anyway. I
think you'd have a hard time fitting it in under the hood, with either a
separate motor or a tailshaft on your traction motor.
The total weight of all parts I've taken out is 472 lbs. This includes
wheel covers, the removable rear tow hooks, and the spare tire and jack. I
really tried to take out everything I could.
I'm using the original power steering rack ( it was pump driven) and I've
done what some on this list have recommended: I ran two hoses from the inlet
and outlet of the rack up to a small homemade fluid reservoir. This way, I
can alway be sure there's fluid in the rack.
A local junkyard located a used manual rack for me, but it was $180, so I
kept the power rack. The ratios are not much different between the two,
and, I figure, with the tires at pretty high pressure it should be OK. I'm
surprised that your car has electric power steering. Maybe they use the
same rack as the Prius.
I'll post some pictures soon ( probably a couple of weeks)
Phil
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--- Begin Message ---
This sounds good and it's not even midnight yet !
Protecting a modell or making a patent are the ways to go for OEMs.
Form of body is a tricky thing to protect. I think the Smarts and EV-1s
are protected by technical patents inside the cars and by name with
trade marks. So Chinese could make a car called "Better EV-2" or "Smart
Dragon EV"
A chinese EV-1 would REALLY be a place of embarasment for GM. Only 1,2
million of these sold in China by 2009 ... Someone would have to admit
some mistakes I think ... ha ha haa...
I will try to meet these "Smart" guys (who are not so smart on marketing
in here as we have seen. Or are they ?... after all I'm going there to
meet them... hmm...)
We as EV community could give them nice and friendly tips how to go.
They might be able to cooperate with other companies in China who have
already US street legal car production.
They are hungry for US EV markets. They have capital but very little
knowledge how we do business in this side of world. There are many who
know but they work in other areas of business and might not be avialable.
At least I'm counting on Chinese to make the EV we have been waiting for
decades. (I personally not that many decades yet :)
I know there is a plan to make 10000 EV taxis in China and most of them
will be already in streets of Peking olympics 2008. Lithium Ion
batteries with 5 seats and 200 mile range. Specs might change since I
have not seen "the one" yet. Many tryouts and protoes but that's it.
Shortly what I just wrote here:
Why not help them to make us the EV we have been waiting for ?
-Jukka
Bob Rice kirjoitti:
Hi EVerybody;;
China is probably working on an EV-1 Knockoff? Why not? My friend that was
in the EV-1 pogram said that they GAVE the Chinese a S 10 and EV-1, years
ago.I don't think you can patent a car shape? Canya/??So the Chinese can
just tweek a few things and haul off and just do it. Hell! The Koreans did a
pretty darn good copy of a Ford Taurus Station wagon, A Kia or a Hy an' dri?
One of them?Gees! A 3 wheel EV -1 would be interesting!Hurry! Before they
start GIVING gas away!Elections are coming!
My two knockoffs worth
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:01 AM
Subject: China Knock-offs (Re: "Strange EV on eBay" round 2)
And a body that won't piss off BMW or DaimlerChrysler or anyone
else... maby something like a cross between the smart and the echo?
They should be able to pull off that kind of thing...
What would you need for that... some criteria they have to meet for
safty?
Tom
How about an EV1 knock-off? They can even stick in a lithium pack, and
how about the four-seat version GM's EV division did as a design
exercise? Maybe they can tweak the look just enough to keep GM's
lawyers off the importer's back, but it would still have to pass crash
testing to go on the freeway, and who will pay for that? Certainly not
the Chinese manufacturer! How about a 3-wheel EV1 copy - no way GM can
sue for that, as it is more of a tribute than an actual copy, and you
can do more extended tapering in back.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.8/455 - Release Date: 9/22/06
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Phil,
Let me know when you get your car ready to look at, I'd like to see it
(I'm in Alfred, NY)
I'll bring up some EE students to see it.
--
Martin K
Phil Marino wrote:
HI, Mark
I'm in Rochester, NY. You're on the West Coast, right??
I'm not using the AC at all. Until a few years ago, I drove a car
with no AC, so I'm still kind of used to it. Being up here near the
lake (Ontario) helps a bit, and I figure I'll never be in the car for
a long time anyway. I think you'd have a hard time fitting it in under
the hood, with either a separate motor or a tailshaft on your traction
motor.
The total weight of all parts I've taken out is 472 lbs. This
includes wheel covers, the removable rear tow hooks, and the spare
tire and jack. I really tried to take out everything I could.
I'm using the original power steering rack ( it was pump driven) and
I've done what some on this list have recommended: I ran two hoses
from the inlet and outlet of the rack up to a small homemade fluid
reservoir. This way, I can alway be sure there's fluid in the rack.
A local junkyard located a used manual rack for me, but it was $180,
so I kept the power rack. The ratios are not much different between
the two, and, I figure, with the tires at pretty high pressure it
should be OK. I'm surprised that your car has electric power
steering. Maybe they use the same rack as the Prius.
I'll post some pictures soon ( probably a couple of weeks)
Phil
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