EV Digest 5936
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) 3 wheelers in NJ?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: AC vs DC
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Article on EVs-moderator to comment please
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE A/C ststems
by Sharon G Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: AC vs DC
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) My Friends Big EV Birthday Adventure
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: AC vs DC? Wound Rotor motors?
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: AC vs DC
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Small automotive computers?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery failures
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Small automotive computers?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Fwd: RE: Death in the Family
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Ranger doner
by Matt Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: AC vs DC?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: AC vs DC
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 3 wheelers in NJ?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Small automotive computers?
by Matt Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Small automotive computers?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Article on EVs-moderator to comment please
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery costs/pricing
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: YARIS CONVERSION (verification)]
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Ranger doner
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EV RALLY/NEW YARIS CONVERSION
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: YARIS CONVERSION
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Hot motor and a couple other newbie questions
by "Erik Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> How many Btu's per watt does a peltier move?
Hmm, about 1.
>From a previous job I have one of these:
http://www.thermoelectric.com/2005/pr/ssac/ahp-1200x.htm
It was used to cool an outdoor equipment enclosure. This was a white
enclosure (metal) with styrofoam insulation and approx. 5 cu feet interior
volume. The cooler draws 4.5-5 amps at 120V to keep the interior 28 deg
below the exterior temp.
Supposedly it moves 530-670 btu, depending on which scale you use, atnd it
draws approx 600 watts (not sure what the power factor is).
Id guestimate you'd need about 20 of these to keep a small car 28 degrees
below exterior temp.
Each unit weighs about 23 lbs and takes up about 2/3 cu foot. So the
whole auto cooler would draw 12,000 watts, take up 13 cu feet and weigh
460 lbs.
Knock yourself out. Me, I'm sticking with my 2/50 air conditioning (open
2 windows and drive 50mph)
>
> Split-ductless heat pumps average ~10 Btu's for every watt used, both
> heating and cooling, but a ton of cooling (12000Btu) requires about
> 100lb of equipment, at least "as is". Maybe you can discard some of
> the "extra bits" meant for home use; you'd also have to see if the
> modified sine wave output from cheap/common inverters would work.
>
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> How many Btu's per watt does a peltier move?
Oops, I forgot. Cars dont usually have styrofoam insulation and they DO
have windows. Better make it 40 units and that's for a sportscar/single
cab pickup size EV.
So now we are up above 20kw, close to 1,000 lbs and about 1/2 a pickup bed
worth of volume.
Im thinking that maybe peltiers aren't really going to work here.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*sigh*
Well I might be moving again. I was wondering if anyone on the list in NJ or
knows of anyone in NJ that has been able to register an enclosed three wheeler?
I know I couldn't in CT but never intended on living in NJ. I was just all
settled down in TX too.
Thanks for any notes.
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correct,
Due to the brushes' limitations the DC implementations tend to
use a voltage below 200V (with exceptions, they occasionally
lose a brush or commutator due to massive spark-over, so this
is not mass-production terrain)
The AC motor can have as high voltage as you like, you will
just need enough isolation on the stator wires.
For practical reasons AC motors and controllers for EV are
spec'ed around 500V, often operated on 300V of batteries, but
with the EEstor for example this could all change, we'll see.
Another reason for production EVs to use AC may be the
absence of brushes, or simply because they expecte that in
high volume the simpler AC motors would result in an overall
lower cost solution, as prices of electronics tend to decrease.
Or because they were already familiar with AC, as in the AC
alternator - no car has a DC alternator.
Also the perceived risk of a "full on" DC control may have
caused them to sway to AC, or because the professional suppliers
were more in the AC camp than the DC suppliers.
There may be many non-technical reasons to make a particular
decision, but the fact that virtually every EV and even the
modern Hybrids use AC means there is a good reason.
NOTE that in the Prius, the AC motor is entirely in a splash-
lubrication oil bath to remove heat from the motor as well as
to provide lubrication and removal of wear products.
That may be difficult with a DC motor's commutator & brushes.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: AC vs DC
Hello Lee
Is not working in a higher voltage overall more efficient? If so would not
this give an edge for efficiency to AC systems? With most AC EV systems
being
around 300 volts and DC in the 120 range for most full size 70 mph
vehicles?
Don
In a message dated 9/28/2006 11:59:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Jeff Major wrote:
> If you consider the AC vs DC systems and just not the controller box,
> you see that the AC system has two silicon switches in series with the
> armature and the DC system has one silicon switch and two carbon-copper
> switches in series with the armature. AC has 2, DC has 3.
True as far as it goes... but this sounds a bit like those philosophical
arguments about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. :-)
Interesting, but it doesn't really get us anything useful.
Ultimately, you have to look at the overall system efficiency
(controller plus motor), at the actual power levels you will be using.
The underlying "motor" and "controller" for both AC and DC systems are
basically doing exactly the same things. That means the ultimate
"winner" is whichever one the designer spent the most time on to get all
the details right.
Throw it together in a hurry with cheap parts, and you get low
efficiency. Spend a lot on great parts, and put in a lot of time on
careful optimization, and you get high efficiency. AC *or* DC.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I could serve it from my page, I just use it for intermittent posting of stuff
such as this.
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: Article on EVs-moderator to comment please
To: [email protected]
> If nobody with more bandwidth offers, I'll be happy to host it on
> one of
> my servers.
> My uplink connection is only 700kpbs however. Plenty big enough,
> unlesseveryone hits it at once ;-)
>
> > I have permission to post Renew's article on 2 EVs in Australia
> in a month
> > or two. I don't have my own web. What is the most appropriate
> way of
> > letting
> > the list see the story? It is 300kB pdf.
> >
> > David Sharpe
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> longlegalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We put A/C systems in conversions all the time,,they work,, they cool, and its
not a big deal to do it. Sharon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Correct,
>
> Due to the brushes' limitations the DC implementations tend to
> use a voltage below 200V (with exceptions, they occasionally
> lose a brush or commutator due to massive spark-over, so this
> is not mass-production terrain)
Not so fast there! ;^>
It is actually false; both AC and DC systems can (and do) use battery
packs in the 300V ballparks, and those DC EVs that use higher voltage
packs have typically reported better efficiency than similar vehicles
using lower voltage packs.
The battery pack voltage and the voltage that the motor sees are two
entirely different matters; the motor only sees near full battery
voltage if/when it is run near maximum speed, and controllers such as
the 'Zilla allow the user to set a maximum motor voltage so that the
(DC) motor can be protected against average voltages above some safe
level (typically 160-170V for commonly used motors, IIRC). Since our
common DC motors tend to be rated to deliver full RPM at voltages in the
120-144V ballpark, the 160-170V limitation is not typically going to
detract from performance.
Many DC EVs use lower voltage packs because it is more economical to do
so, and acceptable power can be maintained using a lower voltage but
higher-current controller; e.g. a 120V system with a 500A controller is
capable of 60kW peak; with an AC drive limited to 280A (a typical
value), at least 214V is required for the same power. If/when
higher-current lower-voltage AC controllers are readily available, I
fully expect to see hobbiests building 120V AC drive cars instead of
300V ones.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Today my friend Sam has his 46th birthday. He decided to ride his electric,
highly modified, Currie scooter to Seattle from here in Port Townsend, a
distance of about forty or fifty miles. He left with me riding my
motorcycle. We met at a restaurant about nine miles from town. I gave him a
head start and I caught up with him just in time for us to both pull into
the parking lot together. They allowed him to plug in to an outlet on the
side of the building near their outdoor picnic tables. We had a great late
breakfast and at the end the entire wait staff came up behind him a with a
small round cake with a lit candle and sang a zippy birthday song I had
never heard before. Just when we were about to leave a locally famous
harmonica guy who has made the Guinness Book of World Records stopped in. He
knew Sam and played him Happy Birthday on his harmonica. We went outside and
checked his scooter and it was topped off. He headed down the road towards
the Hood Canal Floating Bridge. He called me from Port Gamble and was
letting a young dude ride his scooter. He thinks we have another scooter
trash convert. From there he headed to the Kingston ferry which is not too
far from Manzanita Micro. He just called from the ferry and they let him
plug in there as well. Next stop is for a massage in Seattle. This will all
be reported on as a feature article in the Peninsula Daily News which is
syndicated through the Associated Press wire service. I think he is having a
grand birthday to remember!
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
What would be the advantages and disadvantages of
extiting the wound rotor directly, through the
slip-rings? My thinking is that it would become a
synchronous AC motor. But would that be a "good"
thing? I imagine there is some optimum exciting
level; what would hapen if you over-excited the rotor?
Under-excited the rotor?
I know a lot of questions, but I'd really like to hear
what you have to say about this. You see, I have this
400 Hz aircraft alternator...
Thanks for your time,
Steven Ciciora
<snip>
> However, the traditional meaning of a "wound rotor
> induction motor" is
> one where the windings are not shorted on the motor;
> rather, they are
> routed to slip rings so they can be shorted
> externally. Being able to
> control the rotor resistance externally lets you
> control slip, starting
> torque, operating voltage and current, efficiency,
> and many other
> parameters. Many large induction motors are
> wound-rotor motors.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger,
Your reasoning would be valid if there was an inductor or
transformer in the DC controller.
However, the DC controllers we know only limit the
AVERAGE output voltage.
They still send the full battery voltage to the motor, only
not the whole time. They switch it on and off to achieve an
average that is lower and because the motor has both self-
inductance as well as (rotational) mass, the result is a
smoothly controller motor, even though the voltage is
switching on/off very quickly.
you can easily see this effect by attaching an oscilloscope
to the motor connectors - you will see a "square wave" of
the full battery voltage, where the "on" time varies from
zero to (almost) continuously on, dependent on the throttle.
You can also look at the schematic of a controller and
follow the path between battery and motor: there is only
the power semiconductor on/off switch, so the voltage is
either equal to the battery or zero.
In AC controllers, the same effect is used to create the
AC waveforms by switching them less on for low speed &
power and making wider pulses for higher power & speed.
More info by searching on PWM motor control.
(PWM = Pulse Width Modulation)
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: AC vs DC
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Correct,
>
> Due to the brushes' limitations the DC implementations tend to
> use a voltage below 200V (with exceptions, they occasionally
> lose a brush or commutator due to massive spark-over, so this
> is not mass-production terrain)
Not so fast there! ;^>
It is actually false; both AC and DC systems can (and do) use battery
packs in the 300V ballparks, and those DC EVs that use higher voltage
packs have typically reported better efficiency than similar vehicles
using lower voltage packs.
The battery pack voltage and the voltage that the motor sees are two
entirely different matters; the motor only sees near full battery
voltage if/when it is run near maximum speed, and controllers such as
the 'Zilla allow the user to set a maximum motor voltage so that the
(DC) motor can be protected against average voltages above some safe
level (typically 160-170V for commonly used motors, IIRC). Since our
common DC motors tend to be rated to deliver full RPM at voltages in the
120-144V ballpark, the 160-170V limitation is not typically going to
detract from performance.
Many DC EVs use lower voltage packs because it is more economical to do
so, and acceptable power can be maintained using a lower voltage but
higher-current controller; e.g. a 120V system with a 500A controller is
capable of 60kW peak; with an AC drive limited to 280A (a typical
value), at least 214V is required for the same power. If/when
higher-current lower-voltage AC controllers are readily available, I
fully expect to see hobbiests building 120V AC drive cars instead of
300V ones.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey,
This is a little off topic, but I'm looking for a small computer
with WiFi, a CAN interface, and a Compact Flash card slot.
It would be nice if it had low power consumption, and could be powered
off of 12 volts as well.
Having a small computer in an EV is always nice :)
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lock,
That is exactly what I was referring to.
After re-reading it appears that both were right:
the problem with fire is caused by the (over-)charging
but that is usually triggered by malfunctioning or too
cheap chargers, after the cell had been over-discharged
and consequently short-circuited, causing too much charge
current which in turn caused the thermal runaway.
Basic failure cause is the over-discharge in the application
without BMS.
Thanks for the find,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lock Hughes
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EVLN(Lithium-ion battery failures
Thundersky astonishing wishes [long]
seen here:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/56811
or tiny:
http://tinyurl.com/rnrs6
tks
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For the over-discharge quote I referred from memory, so I
> do not have a link handy, but I read from a major Li-Ion
> propulsion battery manufacturer that they investigated
> every failure that lead to their battery not performing
> as expected. All failures could be traced back to
> over-discharge. I hope someone else on this list remembers
> the tests I refer to and post a link to this manufacturer.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out http://www.xenarc.com/product/index-pc.html
http://www.gnetcanada.com/vehiclepc-carpc-overview.asp
Basically just search for Auto PC. There's a ton.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Austin
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 7:38 PM
To: EVList
Subject: Small automotive computers?
Hey,
This is a little off topic, but I'm looking for a small computer
with WiFi, a CAN interface, and a Compact Flash card slot.
It would be nice if it had low power consumption, and could be powered
off of 12 volts as well.
Having a small computer in an EV is always nice :)
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Ian Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Subject: RE: Death in the Family
> Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:35:29 -0400
> From: "Ian Clifford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Sure.
>
> Ian Clifford
> Chief Executive Officer
> Feel Good Cars Inc.
>
> Office: 416-535-8395 ext 202
> Cell: 416-347-8781
> Toll Free: 1-877-817-7034
> Fax: 416-535-4043
>
>
> The all-new, fully electric ZENN !!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lock Hughes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: September 22, 2006 8:47 PM
> To: Ian Clifford
> Subject: RE: Death in the Family
>
> Ian
> Don't know if you follow the EVDL, but may I quote you there,
> complete and verbatim, please?
> tks
> Lock
>
> --- Ian Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I was just thinking about Jack and my first Henney Kilowatt Car and
> I
> > did NOT know that he had left this plane. He was a great guy and
> > truly
> > inspirational to me. He is a big part of why I started FGC.
> >
> > I'm sorry with the footnote, but I don't actually believe that is
> how
> > he
> > felt. I spoke to him several times about our business approach
> > shifting
> > away from the old Dauphines to a product we could mass produce and
> > really spread his EV passion. He thought it was great. And I think
> he
> > had a touch of pride that he had helped us get on our way... he was
> a
> > really wonderful person. I'll make a point of contacting Sara who I
> > met
> > several times, and who we brought to Toronto with Jack for the FGC
> > launch at the Dome, which I am sure you remember well!
> >
> > Rest well Jack and I hope you have a Henney with you to drive every
> > day!
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > Ian Clifford
> > Chief Executive Officer
> > Feel Good Cars Inc.
> >
> > Office: 416-535-8395 ext 202
> > Cell: 416-347-8781
> > Toll Free: 1-877-817-7034
> > Fax: 416-535-4043
> >
> >
> > The all-new, fully electric ZENN !!
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lock Hughes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: September 22, 2006 7:50 PM
> > To: Ian Clifford
> > Subject: Fwd: Death in the Family
> >
> > Ian,
> > don't know if you heard this news or not (yeah, I'm a little behind
> > in
> > my reading
> >
> > Lock
> > Toronto
> >
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Subject: Death in the Family
> > > Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:59:39 -0500
> > >
> > > Hi All;
> > >
> > > I don't like to have to do Obits here. Usually like more
> upbeat
> > > stuff. Jack Gretta passed away last night, at his home in Chester
> > CT.
> > > He lost his battle with colon cancer. It was a long, tough
> battle,
> > > painful to witness as this slim, tall, dynamic fella weakened and
> > > faded away in the last few years. He was doing EV's YEARS before
> > most
> > > of us. His Red Henney Killowatt was a familiar icon in the
> streets
> > of
> > > Old Saybrook and Chester CT For over 30 years Jack had an EV of
> > some
> > > form, all in pristine condition, in his daily driver status. His
> > most
> > > recent one a white MG Midget, was his pride and joy. He would be
> > seen
> > > tooling along with the top down in the summer breeze with his
> > > faithful Golden retreiver , Keisha, at his side. Always the lady
> > ,she
> > > sat proudly in the right side, was as well known as Jack, at the
> > car
> > > shows that they would go to EVery summer. That's how I met Jack,
> > when
> > > I drove the Rabbit early on to a car show and the guy sez" Why
> > don't
> > > you park over with Jack, and H!
> > > IS electric?" ANOTHER electric? In CT?I was amazed. Pulled over
> to
> > > his fire engine RED Henney. To meet this increbable guy. Jack has
> a
> > > love of airplanes, have had as many as 5 in his collection. A
> > Davis,
> > > a Piper and several, ultralites he had built up. He had a shop,
> an
> > > EVers dream, under his ranch style home, the WHOLE celler. To you
> > > western folks this is an semi underground foundation sort of
> thing
> > > effectively doubling the size of the house. Concreta floors and
> > high
> > > windows to let light in. Jack's was a treasure trove of EV parts
> > and
> > > stuff. Stuff being a cute tiny ultralight plane he was building.
> I
> > > couldn't even BEGIN to get in this one! It made the Tango and
> > Sparrow
> > > look like a 747 in roominess. Just as well, Jack said," it
> wouldn't
> > > have got ya off the ground, anyhow." Weight MATTERS in planes,
> big
> > > time! Little snowmobile motor wouldn't have the lift for my
> > bulk<g>!
> > > Gees! Another reason to lose a few hundred lbs<g>!Not to mention
> > the
> > > Ham radio stuff. Jack had been into !
> > > Ham Radio since he was a kid. Funny how so many EVers are
> "hams",
> > > Amat
> > > eur Radio Operators. They, too, form a bond and links to each
> > others.
> > > Jack had a "Rig" in all his cars, chatted with the other guyz on
> > the
> > > air.
> > >
> > > As Jack's health faded he had to give up his fair weather run
> to
> > > Old Saybrook to meet his other Radio buddies. This , I'm sure
> broke
> > > his heart, not being able to get out and cruise down senic ,
> > bucolic,
> > > 2 laner, RT 154 ,shunpiking his way into town, in his sparkling
> MG
> > to
> > > link up with old friends. A chat with Jack was always
> fascinating.
> > He
> > > had served in the tail end of WW 2, as a kid, in the Navy,
> flying,
> > of
> > > course! As a kid he had built scooters, motorcycles, all the
> things
> > > that kids loved to be able to do back then. He lived in
> California,
> > > LA in his younger years, only moving to CT in his later years.He
> > > built his beautiful home on a hill in Chester, of course, doesn't
> > > EVerybody live on a hill? ,with all kinds of clever energy
> savers,
> > > Solar panels for hot water, heat pump heating and cooling, to
> > mention
> > > a few. He was modest about all the stuff, necer bragged about it,
> > but
> > > quick to show you around. Jack had a dry sense of humor" Don't
> > > forgert to steer!" he'd say in the c!
> > > ar, knowing I didn't hafta, as a train engineer. His " Don't get
> > > OLD" was a sorta tragic retort, as he DID get old. I never thouht
> > of
> > > him as "Old" He would a few years ago perforn increadable feats
> > > working on his car, like lifting batteries and that sorta bull
> work
> > "
> > > Jack! Forchrissakes! WHY didn't you CALL me? I woulda lifted
> these
> > > around" I said. After his stroke years ago he had to give up
> flying
> > > as he needed to control his feet to work the pedals in the
> > airplane.
> > > So he hobbled in his later years, trying to live and do stuff
> > > gracefully and with pride. He just didn't wanna bother anybody
> with
> > > daily stuff.Jack enjoyed the EAA guyz in our area. We had met in
> > > Worcester MA, but as Jacks health faded we came to him, last
> month
> > > was the last meeting he attended.As the meetings got going Jack
> > could
> > > bring out his flying and airplane vidios he had taken over the
> > years,
> > > when he had a Hanger spot over at the Chester Airport, for his
> > plane
> > > collection.
> > >
> > > It all ended last night when Sara, his wife of many
> years,broke
> > > the news that I had been dreading. Jack...... Peace! .....We
> loved
> > > ya! 1926-2005. Not REALLY that old DAMMIT ,anyhow! He is
> survived
> > by
> > > his wife Sara, A son, Ron, and a daughter, I don't remember her
> > name,
> > > and several grandchildren. Funeral arrangements arent made yet.
> > >
> > > Other footnotes; Jack sold his two red Hennies several years
> > ago.
> > > One went to Toronto, was the nucleus of Feel Good Cars, THAT'S
> > where
> > > their first Henney came from. Whynot? Jack's was in pristine
> > > condition. Now you know the rest of the story with Feel Good. Too
> > bad
> > > they didn't make more as they had planned." Jack had thought, as
> > big
> > > as he was, tall, not big, like me, that he didn't really NEED 3
> > ev's.
> > > " Can only drive ONE car at a time" My argument was " Always have
> a
> > > fresh one(Charged) in the garage at all times!" He sold off the
> > > Hennies and hung onto the MG. FINDING clean and complete Renaults
> > > must have been a logistical nightmare for Feel Good? Jack had
> high
> > > hopes for them, too bad he was let down.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
I saw the show that is being referenced it was mythbusters. The results
seemed pretty valid. They showed that a pickup with a closed tailgate
creates a slow moving rotational airmass (vortex?) in the bed that
forces the air coming over the cab to miss the tailgate completely. A
pickup with the tailgate down creates a very messy and tumbling
airstream behind the cab and thus greater drag. Two identical pickups
were driven until out of gas. The one with the tailgate up went 40 miles
or so farther than the one with the tailgate up. The only thing I would
have liked to have seen would be for the driver who drove the truck with
the tailgate down repeat the experiment with the tailgate up and vice versa.
Joseph H. Strubhar wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:53 PM
Subject: RE: Ranger doner
mike golub wrote:
Also, a "Mythbusters" or somesuch show I caught during the summer
happened to be testing whether fuel efficiency increased when the
tailgate on a PU was left down vs up, and discovered that fuel
efficiency was significantly worse with the tailgate down. The test
wasn't perfect, but it would certainly make me wonder if fitting a
flatbed might actually cost you more due to aero
I seriously doubt the validity of such a conclusion - there is no way in my
opinion that fuel consumption would be worse with the tailgate down on most
pickups! As my uncle used to say "Figures don't lie, but liars figure".
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Motor types. If the core group of experts agreed on a standard
> terminology, it would become a defacto standard.
>
> AC still means air conditioner to me and most car people.
>
Not to me. A/C means Air Conditioning to me, AC means Alternating Current.
But then again I started my working career as an auto mechanic and later
became an electrician... so what do I know.
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
'88 Fiero ESE
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
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--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Your reasoning would be valid if there was an inductor or
> transformer in the DC controller.
What you say is true: the controller only limits the average DC votlage
applied to the motor (I even said so in my post); during the on portion
of the each cycle, the motor sees near full pack voltage, during the off
portion it sees no voltage.
I'm not sure what reasoning you think is invalid. I am disputing your
statement that it is true that there is an advantage to higher pack
voltages that applies to AC systems and not DC systems.
It happens that real world evidence supports my position: there are many
DC EVs using pack voltages well in excess of the 160-170V safe maximum
for our common series motors, and they typically report somewhat better
efficiency than comparable vehicles running lower pack voltages. With
the possible exception of people who race their vehicles, these EVs are
not eating brushes or fireballing their comms on any regular (or
irregular ;^) basis. Indeed, you have examples such as John Wayland's
White Zombie that is running a 348V pack into a series DC motor(s) (in
parallel mode each comm sees full pack voltage during the on time)
without eating brushes or fireballing the comms.
Oddly enough, Otmar seems to know what he is doing... ;^> Limiting the
average motor voltage seems to be effective in protecting the brushes
and comm even though they are still exposed to full pack voltage during
part of each PWM pulse.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
What difference does enclosed make?
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 3:19 pm, Mark Hastings wrote:
*sigh*
Well I might be moving again. I was wondering if anyone on the list in
NJ or knows of anyone in NJ that has been able to register an enclosed
three wheeler?
I know I couldn't in CT but never intended on living in NJ. I was just
all settled down in TX too.
Thanks for any notes.
Mark Hastings
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
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--- Begin Message ---
Also take a look at http://store.mp3car.com
Michael Trefry wrote:
Check out http://www.xenarc.com/product/index-pc.html
http://www.gnetcanada.com/vehiclepc-carpc-overview.asp
Basically just search for Auto PC. There's a ton.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick Austin
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 7:38 PM
To: EVList
Subject: Small automotive computers?
Hey,
This is a little off topic, but I'm looking for a small computer
with WiFi, a CAN interface, and a Compact Flash card slot.
It would be nice if it had low power consumption, and could be powered
off of 12 volts as well.
Having a small computer in an EV is always nice :)
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I picked up an AAEON PCM-5335 single board computer from Ebay for about
$55. It has pretty much everything on a single PC-104 (about 4" x 4")
board, including a CF slot. Additionally, it has on-board IDE, floppy,
VGA, LCD, ethernet, USB, serial, PC104 bus. This particular model
actually has audio in the chipset, but there's no output connector for
the audio. Powered from a single 5V supply. The power connector is
identical to the 4-pin connector for a floppy drive. It only uses the
+12V for biasing the LCD, if you're using the (18 pin) LCD port. It
takes standard SODIMM (laptop) modules. The CF is attached to the 2nd
IDE controller. It's running a 300Mhz Geode processor, and consumes 8W
when it's running. In sleep mode, the power consumption is (I think) <
1W. The 8W figure doesn't include hard drives or any other peripherals.
Nick Austin wrote:
Hey,
This is a little off topic, but I'm looking for a small computer
with WiFi, a CAN interface, and a Compact Flash card slot.
It would be nice if it had low power consumption, and could be powered
off of 12 volts as well.
Having a small computer in an EV is always nice :)
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have plenty of room and bandwidth on evdl.org - if you want me to post it, go
to
http://www.evdl.org/help/
My private email address is at the bottom of that page. See the entry for
"Asst administrator."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Contact person is:
David Mason
U.S. Battery Manufacturing Co.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(909) 371-8090
(909) 371-4671 FAX
Let him know that you are an EV hobbyist and would like the discount on the
batteries.
Please let us know how it goes.
Blue skies,
Patrick
>From: "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Battery Costs/Pricing
>Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:55:39 -0500
>Wallace directed me to call local distribution here in fort smith
>didn't see an address for a Mason on their website :o/
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: [Fwd: Re: YARIS CONVERSION (verification)]
Mark,
Please send me $1 if you would like me to be able to send email to you.
You only have to do this once.
Thanks,
Martin K
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I take it you believe everything the government says, or pays someone
else to say?
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: Ranger doner
> > I don't doubt it. The aero drag is actually a difference of air
> > pressure on the front and back. Most people tend to only think the
> > increase in pressure in the front is significant, but the decrease in
> > pressure in back is often quite significant. The large, flat area
> > behind the cab is a problem. With the gate up, there's less of a
> > pressure drop behind the cab because the air doesn't have to turn
> > suddenly in its path.
> >
>
> There are actual government test that prove you should leave the
> tailgate up - too lazy to look for them right now, but *someone* got
> paid to prove this! Once you hear the reason for it, it does make
> logical sense, bt you have to look at the vehicle as a whole, not just
> the tailgate as a single part of it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll put you on the short list- Just picked it up this evening- long
drive back to SF from LA ....
On Sep 28, 2006, at 9:12 AM, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "MARK DUTKO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I purchased an 07' Toyota Yaris to be converted and will be
seeking advice here on the list in the months to come.
This is a brand new
car with about 100 miles, anyone know a good place to sell a new
1500cc motor? It's a 5-speed, three
Hmm, that might make a good generator if all the emissions and
exhaust systems are kept with it....
Tempting.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://
www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks- I'll post some pictures of the car when I get back...
On Sep 28, 2006, at 10:58 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: YARIS CONVERSION
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:15:23 -0700
Thanks Phil!
The more info the better. I was curious about a few items:
Are you using the AC and if so, how?
I knew the engine was light but I thought it would be a slight
bit more, what was the total weight of your removed parts?
Did you use power steering? Mine is electric- not sure if that can
be used.
Any pictures you may have would be great and where are you located?
Thanks,
Mark
HI, Mark
I'm in Rochester, NY. You're on the West Coast, right??
I'm not using the AC at all. Until a few years ago, I drove a car
with no AC, so I'm still kind of used to it. Being up here near
the lake (Ontario) helps a bit, and I figure I'll never be in the
car for a long time anyway. I think you'd have a hard time fitting
it in under the hood, with either a separate motor or a tailshaft
on your traction motor.
The total weight of all parts I've taken out is 472 lbs. This
includes wheel covers, the removable rear tow hooks, and the spare
tire and jack. I really tried to take out everything I could.
I'm using the original power steering rack ( it was pump driven)
and I've done what some on this list have recommended: I ran two
hoses from the inlet and outlet of the rack up to a small homemade
fluid reservoir. This way, I can alway be sure there's fluid in
the rack.
A local junkyard located a used manual rack for me, but it was
$180, so I kept the power rack. The ratios are not much different
between the two, and, I figure, with the tires at pretty high
pressure it should be OK. I'm surprised that your car has electric
power steering. Maybe they use the same rack as the Prius.
I'll post some pictures soon ( probably a couple of weeks)
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
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direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I've had my EV running for a week today and am having a blast showing it
off, thanks again to all the AustinEV folks who lent a hand in getting it
running! Haven't driven my gasser since Monday and don't have any plans to
for a little while =) I do have a couple of questions though that I'd like
to pose before I toast something.
My motor seems hot, really hot, after my 7 mile ride home from work. It's
moderately hilly, but not bad, with no speed limits above 45. I've kept the
motor around 3-4k RPM except on takeoffs from a stoplight, and when I get
home it's too hot to hold my hand on for more than a few seconds. Any ideas?
Could the space between the case and rotor be clogged and no air is getting
through? This is on a 16x8V flooded batt setup in a 92 VW Cabriolet
(convertable rabbit) with an 8" ADC and a Raptor 600. I've been keeping my
battery amps below 200 for starts and usually below 100 all other times.
I've also got an obvious vibration from the motor, especially above 4k RPM.
I think my flywheel is out of balance. Is it possible that the output shaft
is bent a bit, and if so any ideas how to check? I may have a little more
cut off the flywheel while it's out, not that 2 pounds makes a HUGE
difference in a 3000 lb car. =)
While I have the motor out is there any other good preventative maintenence
to do? New motor bearings? Turn the comm? New brushes? To my knowledge the
motor is about 10 years old and I'm not sure what was done before.
My biggest EV grins so far have been at stoplights. Realizing that my car is
stopped and not idleing any more is awesome. I'm a bit of a new parent so
far, watching the batteries, babying the starts, and showing it off to
anyone who'll listen.
Thanks!
Erik
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