EV Digest 5942
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Let's see the 8.8 @150+ mph timeslip (was: Why lie? (was: CE
on TV))
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Electric assisted bicycle
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) high voltage costs, Re: AC vs DC
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 06LNN Videos-n-such Was: Last Saturday's Oregonian 'Electric Drag
Racer' Article
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: AC vs DC
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Engine swap for removal labor
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Karmann Ghia vs Porsche 914
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric assisted bicycle
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Engine swap for removal labor
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Adaptor plate for 1999 VW Beetle
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Karmann Ghia vs Porsche 914
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric assisted bicycle
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: AC vs DC? Wound Rotor motors?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: AC vs DC
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Small automotive computers?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Engine swap for removal labor
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: air conditioning for ev's
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Adaptor plate for 1999 VW Beetle
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Ranger doner
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: air conditioning for ev's
by Dennis Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Hot, stinky motor. What does it mean?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Again, let's see the time slips. As soon as I see an 8.8 second @
150+ mph time slip, I will pay Dennis $100 and apologize profusely.
His quote is "8.8 at over 150 miles per hour." Let's see that time
slip. Show me and I'll gladly send you $100.
Next, Dennis didn't write it on the list, but back in 2000 he told
me, Rich Rudman, and Rod Wilde that he went over 150 mph. Dennis
knows he didn't write it on the list, but he also knows that he DID
claim it verbally way back then. This is a side issue I know, but
this is the main the reason that I doubt his most recent 150+ mph claims.
Here is his actual 8.801 second mph:
http://www.currenteliminator.net/home/
I looked at his records page
http://www.currenteliminator.net/records/ and his best mph is listed
as 147.12 mph. Close, but not "over 150 mph."
Bill D. (Third and last post on this subject. Unless Dennis produces
the 8.8 @150+mph timeslip.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I meant to be 1.275 . I drop the number 2 which was cause by my third
finger not pressing the key completely.
I will correct this number below now.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: RE: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
> Roland,
>
> When you say 1.75 do you mean 1.275 SG when cool?
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 5:29 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
>
>
> Hello Chuck,
>
> You may have given me a clue, when you said your batteries were deliver
> with
>
> low electrolyte.
>
> If I remember right, is that the water to acid ratio is about 5 parts of
> water to 3 parts of water.
>
> Water being 1.0 sg and sulfuric acid is 1.8. Adding 5 (five parts of
> water)
>
> to 1.8+1.8+1.8 (three parts of acid) = 10.4
>
> Divide 10.4 by eight parts = 1.3 SG electrolyte while its hot. When cool
> down it will be about 1.275 SG.
>
> If a container (cell) is low with 1.275 SG electrolyte (reading 1.275 sg)
> than adding just water might add another part of water or:
>
> (6 x 1.0)+ 3 x 1.8) = 11.4
>
> 11.4/9 parts = 1.26 SG while hot and may have reduce it to 1.24 when
> cool.
>
> So it took more over charging increase the electrolyte to 1.257 SG. even
> though the plates were charge to 100%.
>
> If the original reading of the electrolyte was at 1.75 SG and you added
> water which reduce it to 1.24 SG, You may have over charge it to raise the
> SG.
>
> If new batteries are low and the factory did not fill the cell all the way
> out, you must add the same SG electrolyte to the proper level.
>
> The white floating crystals is the sulfate or SO4 from the negative
> plates,
> meaning you are releasing the sulfate from the negative plates at a too
> fast
>
> of a charge. The sulfate is ejecting from the negative plates as
> particles
> instead of dissolving very slowly.
>
> The red goo is the from the positive plate which is lead oxide or PbO2.
> This is cause by high and deep discharges that blow out the O2 oxide which
> may be a red rust color.
>
> The problem now, is to find out what the real charge rating of the plates
> are at. They may no longer correspond to the SG of the diluted acid.
>
> One way that might work, is to let the electrolyte level get down to the
> level you thought was low. Charge the batteries at a low rate as to not to
> eject more material as high SG you can go.Read the SG which should be
> higher
>
> now, because there is less water by removing 1 part.
>
> Then finish adding electrolyte as should have been done in the beginning.
>
> This is going to be better than nothing. It may not work, but I would
> give
> it a try.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 4:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
>
>
> > I guess I don't understand. We have Roland here advising 7.4V/6V
> > battery, looks to be constant voltage charging with no constant
> > current, so IU rather than IUI. I don't know how long the final
> > U is suppose to go, or down to what amps.
> >
> > Bruce Parmenter seems to have been following an IU charging
> > regime on his US125s, going to about 2.57V/cell, which is about
> > 7.7V/6V battery. I guess his batteries are going ok, this pack.
> >
> > I, on the other hand, everytime I discharge the batteries fairly
> > deeply seem to get a new layer of sugarcoating white sulfate
> > crystals on top of my negative plates. My 1.25-year old
> > batteries (US125) were delivered with rather low electrolyte
> > levels and low specific gravity readings. I worked to get the
> > electrolyte levels up by adding water over several months. I had
> > one rather deep discharge in Oct 2005 that started the sugar
> > crystal layering. In the meantime, I have been following Roger's
> > advice of moving the constant voltage up towards 14.4V/12V and
> > then after reading further posts and US Batteries' page (+ Bruce
> > Parmenter's postings) final U went to the 2.57V/cell (15.6V/12V).
> > I also had a final 3-hr constant I phase for awhile at 4A, then
> > on advice of Greg McCrea moved it to 5.5A. I finally got the
> > average of the pack to 1257sg.
> >
> > Then earlier (9/2) this month I ran a 75A load test to 5.25V, and
> > the batteries did better than I expected. But then last weekend
> > I was rather floored during my battery maint. / hydrometer
> > readings. Lots more sugar coating on the plates. sg readings
> > way down (I haven't finished the spreadsheet). Now my batteries
> > will no longer taper off into final I, resulting in the
> > hot/stinky battery post of a few days / week ago.
> >
> > All that I'm reading leaves me to wonder, can these batteries be
> > charged and last? Most everybody seems to have problems with
> > batteries, and they ain't cheap. I've never seen this sugar
> > coating on my previous two packs. Appears Bob Bath has lost his
> > pack, Bruce had one fail after only a year, etc., etc. I am
> > definitely having my doubts...
> >
> > I'll post my data (spreadsheets - jpg capture I think) in the
> > next few days. I hope someone can help me pull my pack out of
> > the hole. I can't see replacing a pack that is only 5K and 1.25
> > years old. That's 24 cents/mile, not to speak of the gas hauling
> > around a set and time installing them.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > PS: What's the red goo, Bob?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 5:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger &
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > > That's what's such a bummer: I followed US Battery's
> > > advice (see website), and wound up murdering the pack.
> > > Yes, I do believe this was a case of EQ'ing the pack
> > > on practically every charge...
> > > Trojan, meanwhile, sticks more to your regimen.
> > > Now I'm curious to try the red goo that you've sworn
> > > by before!
> > >
> > > --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Bob,
> > > >
> > > > On your next pack of 144 volts. Try to not charge
> > > > over 177.6 volts when the
> > > > batteries are at 80 degrees F. This is 7.4 volts per
> > > > 6 volts or 14.8 per 12
> > > > volts. If the battery temperature is lower, than
> > > > the maximum I charge at is
> > > > 7.5 volts per 6 volt or 15 volts per 12 volt.
> > > >
> > > > Any time I see any one of the batteries have more
> > > > than a 0.04 volt
> > > > difference from the highest battery to the lowest
> > > > battery, than I will do a
> > > > equalization charge which is 7.73 volts per 6 volts
> > > > or 15.46 volts per 12
> > > > volt. I only do this equalization charge now every
> > > > three or more months.
> > > >
> > > > 15.46 x 12 = 185.52 volts! Its look like you were
> > > > doing balance or
> > > > equalization charging everytime which really cooks
> > > > the batteries, instead of
> > > > doing bulk charging which would be between 177 to
> > > > 180 volts.
> > > >
> > > > Roland
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 1:15 PM
> > > > Subject: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to
> > > > Roger & Roland
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Well about a year ago, I started writing as I was
> > > > > frustrated that my batteries were no longer
> > > > hitting
> > > > > 186-189V.
> > > > >
> > > > > Battery experts got me to understand that while
> > > > 186
> > > > > may have been satisfactory for brand new, they
> > > > were
> > > > > not so anymore. The mystery, was why wouldn't the
> > > > > batteries taper down?
> > > > >
> > > > > Over time, I cut the charger to a rate that would
> > > > > gently bubble, (but not heat) the batteries. This
> > > > is
> > > > > around 173-175V for my 144V pack. Sure enough,
> > > > the
> > > > > charger tapers down to 6-7A.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this point (2 yrs. on the pack), I have 3
> > > > batteries
> > > > > that each have a cell that won't go past 1200 SG.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is my perception that with active material
> > > > flaked
> > > > > around the cell, I am faced with that favorite
> > > > > dilemma; replace whole pack, or replace the poor
> > > > > cells.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am leaning toward replacing the pack at this
> > > > point.
> > > > > Interstate is 90x18 or $1620 for the pack. I will
> > > > go
> > > > > with 165Ah, not 178Ah. Just don't think it's
> > > > worth
> > > > > the extra money; can use the extra weight, too.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will do a load test on a satisfactory battery
> > > > (ie,
> > > > > one where all of the cells are leaning to 1265
> > > > SG),
> > > > > and make a final decision.
> > > > >
> > > > > So despite having 6 years experience with EVs
> > > > under my
> > > > > belt, my understanding of EVs has been unmatched
> > > > with
> > > > > my understanding of batteries. Bummer.
> > > > >
> > > > > To those who responded then to my post, I continue
> > > > to
> > > > > be grateful to you for contributing to this list.
> > > > > Let's see if I can get more mileage/years under my
> > > > > belt next time/next pack...
> > > > > peace,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> > > > > has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch
> > > > too!
> > > > > Learn more at:
> > > > > www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> > > > > ____
> > > > > __/__|__\ __
> > > > > =D-------/ - - \
> > > > > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > > > > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe
> > > > came out of the steering
> > > > > wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > > > protection around
> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> > > has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> > > Learn more at:
> > > www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> > > ____
> > > __/__|__\ __
> > > =D-------/ - - \
> > > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the
> > steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
Here is a Web Site:
http://energy.sourceguides.com/businesses/byGeo/US/byS/UT/byB/serv/serv.shtm
l
Company is located in Salt Lake City.
Curtis Muhlestein
Riverton Utah
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Bohm
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:37 AM
To: EV List
Subject: Electric assisted bicycle
Hi everyone,
I had a voicemail from a lady wanted to electrify her bicycle. If any
of you know of people doing this type of project, or would be willing to
help her, let me know. I'll call the lady back and relay the information.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Is not working in a higher voltage overall more
>> efficient? If so would not this give an edge for
>> efficiency to AC systems? With most AC EV systems being
>around 300 volts and DC in the 120 range for most full
>size 70 mph vehicles?
>
>No; voltage has (almost) nothing to do with efficiency. A
>48v or 480v motor or controller have the same efficiency.
>Both packs typically built whit the same type batteries
>(just wired differently), so there is no difference there
>either. Voltage doesn't affect efficiency until you get to
>extremes like 1 volt at 10,000 amps, or 10,000 volts at 1
>amp.
>
>You might think that higher voltages will lower the current
>, and that must reduce the voltage drops in the wiring and
>improve efficiency, right? But when you go through this,
>you find it doesn't work out that way.
But what higher voltage does do is greatly run up the
EV costs, especially compared to lower voltage systems.
For instance a 72vdc pack of 12 Golf cart batts for
my new EV go for about $800 that has the same range as a
high voltage pack of 24 AGM's that costs $3600 and weighs
20% more. Not only that but the regulators, go for at least
$40 each so another $960 plus all the higher priced
contactors, ect needed for the higher voltages.
Hopefully those into EV's will start building much
lighter ones using kitcars and older, lightweight cars,
minitrucks that can be cost effective.
And besides AC systems high beginning costs, their
repair costs are very high too.
There is no reason an EV can't be more economical and
beat ICE's in cost. But it isn't going to happen until
people start building lightweight, low drag, proven DC EV
drive EV's instead of the lead mine conversions many are
using.
Jerry Dycus
>
>In a motor, they fill the available winding space with as
>much wire as will fit. A 240v motor needs twice as many
>turns as a 120v motor; so the wire must be half the
>cross-sectional area to fit. Twice the length and half the
>cross-section means a 240v motor has 4 times the winding
>resistance as a 120v motor. Yes, it draws half the current
>for the same horsepower, but power = I^2 R. 1/2 the
>current times 4x the resistance means the power loss is
>the *same*!
>
>For the batteries, suppose you have 20 12v batteries. You
>can wire them all in series for 240v, or as two groups of
>120v in parallel. You'll find you have the same total
>number of connectors, same total wire length, and same
>current in every wire for either the 120v or 240v case. So
>again, the efficiency of both packs is exactly the same.
>
>Suppose you used different sized batteries for the 120v and
>240v case; like ten 12v 100ah for 120v, and twenty 12v
>50ah for 240v (so he the two packs are the same size,
>weight, and watthour capacities so you have a fair
>comparison). Now your 240v pack has twice the number of
>batteries, so 2x the number of connectors and wire length
>as the 120v case. The 120v case has twice the current per
>wire and per battery; so you have to use twice the wire
>size (assuming you size it for a particular temperature
>rise). Just like the motor, the 240v case has 4x the
>resistance (half the wire size, and twice the length). It
>runs at half the current; P = I^2 R, so again, you're
>right back where you started, with identical losses for
>both 120v and 240v packs.
>
>Now look at the controller. When you look at the specs for
>MOSFETs, you notice that their resistance is proportional
>to the *square* of their voltage ratings. The really low
>resistance MOSFETs are also low voltage. So again, a 120v
>controller will have less resistance, and so less on-state
>voltage drop than a 240v controller. The power loss in both
>is the same!
>
>Yes, there are special cases where changing the voltage
>*does* change the efficiency. They occur because you
>changed only *part* of the system, or used parts intended
>for one voltage/current at the wrong level. For instance a
>"72-144v" controller is more efficient at 144v than it is
>at 72v, because it's obviously built with high-voltage
>MOSFETs.
>
>Or, you could blindly wire both your 120v and 240v EVs with
>the same size wire, ignoring the current change. Then the
>240v version would have less voltage drop -- due to
>oversizing the wire, not from the voltage. --
>Ring the bells that still can ring
>Forget the perfect offering
>There is a crack in everything
>That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>--
>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
Ive already uploaded all of John's videos from plasmaboyracing.com to
google videos, but have not done anything with youtube. I believe there are
27 of them. You can find them by searching for 'white zombie car'. Google
videos does pretty much the same thing as youtube, and I have spent more
time using it. I like their rating system, and believe that if we all went
there and voted, we could get one or more of the clips into the top 100
list. Wouldnt that be nice?
Speaking of which, shouldnt we all be voting for killacycle at dragtimes.com?!
It still has a chance to be vehicle of the month!
http://www.dragtimes.com/Dragster-Motorcycle-Timeslip-7621.html
Thanks for uploading these though. This is the first time I have seen
Dave Clouds car on its final run.
On 9/29/06, Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry it's been so long since I've posted, haven't really been keeping
up with the list lately, only 19,000 unread posts in my inbox yet...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 29 Sep 2006 at 16:09, Nick Austin wrote:
> I guess [ice starter motors] do seem to generally last for 100K miles,
> which is something.
Let's see just what. According to the Nationwide Personal Transportation
Survey (whatever that is), the average auto trip is 8.7 miles. Thus in
100,000 miles the car is started about 11,500 times. Each start is, what,
1.5 seconds of starter operation? So 100,000 miles on an ICE starter is a
lifetime of 4.8 hours. Not so good.
IIRC, back in the 1980s, GE estimated that one of their traction motors in
road service would run for about 250,000 miles. If we suppose that the
average speed of the vehicle is 35 mph, we see a lifetime of about 7,100
hours. Better. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, Before I began this process I drove my truck to Nissan Only
Wreckers outside of Sacramento CA. That is when I was told it was a
boat anchor.
On Friday, September 29, 2006, at 07:36 PM, Storm Connors wrote:
If you are going to sell a used engine, you have to
sell it before you remove it. That way the buyer knows
how it runs.
--- John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I would say it is not a bad idea. I knew nothing
about cars when I
started my conversion. I rented an engine hoist and
invited over a
friend that does a lot of work on cars to pull the
engine/tranny. I
tried to sell the engine at a place that specialized
in nissans parts
and was told I had a boat anchor. (V6 from an 86
Nissan pickup) In the
end I put the engine up for free on craig's list and
someone came and
took it away. I had a bunch of other stuff (muffler,
exhaust pipes and
various other things) that I eventually rented a
truck for so I could
take them to the transfer station. It would be nice
to have the donor
stripped by someone with the appropriate tools and
equipment and have
all the ICE parts out of my garage.
That said, given the fact I did not plan on
reinstalling stuff, getting
it off the truck was not that bad.
I learned 2 lessons from my experience 1) selling a
used engine may not
be so easy, and 2) I should have bought the
collapsable engine hoist I
now own at the beginning of the process. During
removal it cost be
about $40 to rent one for a weekend which wasn't
bad, but as I've been
working on my motor mount I don't know what I would
have done if I did
not have long term access to the hoist. Some of the
more experienced on
the list may be able to design and fabricate a
motor mount without a
hoist but not I.
John
On Friday, September 29, 2006, at 10:09 AM, Steve
Kobb wrote:
I had AN idea... but I'm a newbie, so I don't know
if it's a GOOD
idea. Perhaps the EVDL can give me some insight.
Here's the concept:
What if go to a neighborhood mechanic or engine
re-builder and make
him this offer: I will go out and buy a running,
decent, not-too-old
Ford Ranger...
...and then GIVE him for FREE the entire engine
and all associated ICE
hardware, IF...
...he does the labor to remove all that stuff from
the vehicle. In
other words, he gets an engine; I get his time.
The attraction to me, of course, is that it would
get me to a
completed conversion much faster than if I removed
the equipment
myself.
Now here's my question to you: If this IS a good
idea, who is it good
FOR? Both me and the mechanic? Or just him? Or
just me?
Let's say that it's just good for him. That would
mean that I'm giving
away something MUCH more valuable than what he's
giving me.
Or maybe it's the reverse. I just don't know.
Your comments are welcome.
Steve Kobb
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes the transmission adapter is identical.
The Ghia has four seats, the 914 only two. Granted the Ghia seats are
only good for small children, however this means it has less room in the
front seats.
I'm 6'2" and I have to move the seat forward one or two notches from all
the way back on my 914. In a Ghia, it's very cramped. I fit, but I
wouldn't want to drive a long way.
Otherwise the two are very close. The Ghia is probably slightly better
aero-wise, but also slightly heavier.
I think it's a toss up, unless you are over 6', then I'd lean towards the
914.
> Hi,
>
> I was curious do the Ghia & 914 use the same adapter? Which do you
> think would make a better conversion? Lighter? Aero?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
> faster.
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For an assisted bike...
One source of conversion parts is http://www.evsolutions.net/. That's
Joshua's site and he uses the C-lyte hub motor for his conversions. (I
wouldn't consider anything other than a hub motor for a bike conversion.)
However, it's usually best to look around your city at the various bike
shops and find one that does these conversions... and get a fixed price for
the conversion, working! The German motors are more expensive than these
Chinese motors. They are better quality, but they are *much* more expensive.
I mention working, because of the probs I ran into with the kit I bought...
mostly in trying to keep the wheel aligned. (I lost track of how many times
I had it back, having it realigned.) I understand others haven't had this
sort of problem, but you'll pay about the same price (do-it-yourself vs.
motor dealer) and you have a bit of guarantee when it's finished.
Overall, I think the C-lyte kit is a good one for all but those who have MC
budgets to spend on an e-bike. He also lists a couple other suppliers of
motors on his "ordering" page.
Speed is a product of how many volts you run the motor at. A 48V battery
pack will take you to around 26MPH... a 36V a bit over 20... but different
winding counts, gears (on the German motors) and so forth, will alter this.
W/o pedaling, 20 miles of range can be expected from a 12Ah battery, running
at about 80% of max speed. Of course, you carry about 1 pound of batts per
Ah, times the # of batts you have onboard. (48V is 4 batts, 12Ah is just
under 12 lbs, for around 48 lbs, plus mounting gear.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 8:36 AM
Subject: Electric assisted bicycle
> Hi everyone,
>
> I had a voicemail from a lady wanted to electrify her bicycle. If any
> of you know of people doing this type of project, or would be willing to
> help her, let me know. I'll call the lady back and relay the information.
>
> -Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
you DROVE the truck to them and they said it was a boat anchor?
bet you talked to the idiot that worked there
every place has an idiot working there,
just hope nobody on this list is self employed :op
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: Engine swap for removal labor
Yes, Before I began this process I drove my truck to Nissan Only
Wreckers outside of Sacramento CA. That is when I was told it was a
boat anchor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:16 PM 9/29/2006, you wrote:
Hello,
I am trying to find an adapter plate for a 1999 Volks Wagen Beetle
2.0L engine. I have the 02J transmission with code DQZ. This match
what I found in the service manual. Here are the number stamped on
the transmission case
DQZ024088
64 0863
I have called ElectroAutomotive twice; once last week, once this week.
I left a message both times; no return message :(
I have just emailed Don Cameron about his adapter plate maker, also.
Any help would be appreciated!
Kind Regards,
Mike
Mike,
Sorry for the lack of response. We have been frantically getting
ready to do a workshop on Sunday. Yes, we have a pattern for this.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:35 PM 9/29/2006, you wrote:
Yes the transmission adapter is identical.
They are very close, but NOT identical. The adaptor hub is different
(one large gland nut for the Ghia vs. five small bolts for the 914),
the ring is different thickness, and there is a slight difference in
the profile plate.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This site has some useful info and pics on mounting and drive mechanisms:
http://staton-inc.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll take a stab (if this hasn't been handled already, I am behind on
emails)
Looking at the rotor as a transformer the Reactance of the rotor
determines at a given slip freq (magnetic field moving faster than rotor)
How much current flows in the rotor bars. This determines the strength
of the magnetec poles and thus the torque.
At slow rpms the slip is high and if not controlled, will melt the
rotor. At High slip, the primary magnetic circuit is deep into the
rotor, at higher rpm and lower slip the primary magnetic circuit is
shallow in the rotor, So by shaping the rotor bars or making two cages
some good torque at starting off and god efficiency at cruise can be
obtained.
For the most part the slip rings are to remove the extra rotor energy to
prevent melting it. It raises the reactance and allows 4X torque at LESS
amps. It allows infinite adjustment of the reactance making the motor
optimum at all rpms instead of 1 "base rpm" so wider torque and
effiency. This Slip energy can be regenerated back onto the line.
As an added plus, dc can be injected into the slip rings to lock the
rotor into synchronous operation.
These slip rings are not subject to the arcing that the series wound
motors are, different composition, everything.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey All
I actually try to stay out of the AC vs. DC threads. Being born and raised
DC, I can't help but feel I fall under a bias house 8^ ) With that said I do
find it funny that people would complain about having to change brushes every
now and then. Heck I drove to Joliet and back and was 1000 miles overdue on an
oil change when I got back!? Add up the oil changes in a couple, three years
and you have a brush set and comm turning with maybe change to spare.
Let's look at a power steering motor on a DC forklift. Most of the big
distribution centers run at least 2 if not 3 shifts a day. If the steer motor
turns at only 2000 RPMs it will have had anywhere from 1 million to several
million revolutions in one day. If we take a low day of 10 hours running and
it take on average at least 2 if not 3 years for me to start seeing motors from
new units then the motors has run for around 6000 hours if I use a 300 day work
year (I don't think they ever shut down though). At 35 miles an hour on
average this motor would run a power steering unit on a car for 210,000 miles.
Now lets cut that down to half and that's still a hundred thousand miles!
Most pre-mature brush wear is do to an over-taxed motor, plain and simple.
John Bryan is a perfect example of an 11 year old ADC 9" with absolutely no
brush wear! I remember an old saying I was preached many a moon ago, that a
motor will always show the symptom but is rarely the problem. Besides what's
wrong with letting the old motor guy eat EVery once and a while, hell there's
an oil can Henry's on every other corner 8^ P
On a fun note I like being able to take an old piece of crap motor and work
it to something really nice. I also like being able to miss and match
different parts from different motor types to make something new, like Mighty
Tim I did for Matt and Shawn, try that with an AC motor!
Then again, maybe I'm just bias!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 29 Sep 2006 at 16:09, Nick Austin wrote:
> I guess [ice starter motors] do seem to generally last for 100K miles,
> which is something.
Let's see just what. According to the Nationwide Personal Transportation
Survey (whatever that is), the average auto trip is 8.7 miles. Thus in
100,000 miles the car is started about 11,500 times. Each start is, what,
1.5 seconds of starter operation? So 100,000 miles on an ICE starter is a
lifetime of 4.8 hours. Not so good.
IIRC, back in the 1980s, GE estimated that one of their traction motors in
road service would run for about 250,000 miles. If we suppose that the
average speed of the vehicle is 35 mph, we see a lifetime of about 7,100
hours. Better. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.dashwerks.com/ just up our alley
http://www.allaboutjake.com/network/linksys/wrt54g/hack/ if you just
want to serve out a webpage from your car
http://www.linuxdevices.com/
http://www.compulab.co.il/x270/html/x270-sb-datasheet.htm
http://www.splatt.com.au/blog/archives/2006/05/a_tiny_pcand_i.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I drove the truck there. Apparently they had more of these than
they needed. And this is a place that specializes in Nissan's so I
figured they would be my best bet. I was also I bit surprised that my
ad on craigs list offering it for FREE did not attract more attention.
This is why I commented that getting rid of a used engine is not as
easy as I would have thought.
On Friday, September 29, 2006, at 09:47 PM, Mark McCurdy wrote:
you DROVE the truck to them and they said it was a boat anchor?
bet you talked to the idiot that worked there
every place has an idiot working there, just hope nobody on this list
is self employed :op
----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: Engine swap for removal labor
Yes, Before I began this process I drove my truck to Nissan Only
Wreckers outside of Sacramento CA. That is when I was told it was a
boat anchor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Having mentioned the prius compressor, i should mention the gotcha. I
think it runs off the 500V inverter and is 3 phase. There is a special
compressor oil to prevent voltage leakage paths from the motor to the case.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electro Automotive wrote:
Yes, we have a pattern for this.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
great news! what is the best way for me to contact you about details?
i am having trouble getting through on the phone. is email better? if
so, what address should i use? so we don't clog up the list with our
business, you may email me directly at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
thanks for you response; i am quite excited to get started!!!
regards,
mike sandman
www.electromotus.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm going to chime in here also.
I hauled a 5th wheel for 2 years (still have it...) with my F250 and I got
myself a vented tail gate. It also has a low part in the center so that when
you go to hitch up the 5th wheel, all you have to do is back up the pickup and
not lower the tail gate to clear the hitch.
I got the vented tail gate for 2 reasons -
1) easier to hitch and unhitch and
2) all the full timers that I met said that they got much better mileage with
the vented gate, whether the 5th wheel was hitched or unhitched.
The vented gate is basically no tail gate at all...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Ranger doner
> Years ago I had a Toyota pickup. I found it got better mileage with the gate
> down. It was really apparent. This would not be the first time that I've
> busted the "Mythbusters" on the myths they create...
>
> -Ralph
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks.
=====================
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2006/09/29 Fri PM 07:46:50 CDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: air conditioning for ev's
When you click on the second link, the extension (.html) is
incomplete, because the link is cut in two in the email.
Tyle the "ml" after the link when you get the error and
you can view the article.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dennis Hogan
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 5:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: air conditioning for ev's
The 2nd link was a dead link. Can you summarize what it would have said?
=====================
From: Curtis Muhlestein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2006/09/27 Wed PM 11:26:23 CDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: air conditioning for ev's
Has anyone looked into these:
http://www.digit-life.com/articles/peltiercoolers/
http://sustainablog.blogspot.com/2005/07/high-school-students-create-high.ht
ml
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:16 PM
To: Green VW
Subject: Re: air conditioning for ev's
Ben,
Your Bus is a seriously nice conversion. With two ac clutches you
literally have a mechanical regen! Very sweet. The whole thing is just
too neat and tidy. You should be banned :)
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Green VW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> i have had success with my configuration. I use an AC clutch on the
> compressor and the motor shaft, so that energy is not used to turn the
> belt when not in use. The compressor is set up to engage whenever the
> throttle is lifted (shift changes, braking). Helps slow the vehicle
> when coming to a stop and slow the motor between gear shifts. I used
> the largest condensor that I could find and two electric cooling fans.
> In typical use the AC only uses the battery pack to power the fans.
> The compressor is only powered by momentum normally lost to brake heat.
> I put a thermometer in the AC vent to check performance. In stop and
> go traffic, it will maintain 45 deg on a hot florida summer day. I
> also installed an override switch to power the compressor on the
> highway, though I don't use it, as the VW has Safari Windshields and
> allows plenty of air in
>
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/384
>
> On Sep 27, 2006, at 3:13 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > MikePhillips wrote (some time ago):
> > Does anyone know if it's possible and what it takes to bring Air
> > Conditioning
> > to a EV?
> >
> > and the list came up with many ideas and suggestions.
> >
> > I would like for Steve Clunn and others who have DONE IT
> > to way in on the pro's and con's of running the compressor off of the
> > secondary
> > shaft of the Traction motor vs. a separate motor ??
> > If you had a clutch couldn't you "idle" if you had to ?
> > I figure its hot in Fla.so steve should have some good advice ?
> >
> > (OH I forget _ Steve said that he prefers two windows down at 40 mph)
> >
> > Joe in Cincinnati
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob
Aren't you here in Oregon? If so what area?
Seeing what's going on now will save you a lot of bucks off getting a new
motor or even having to wind the armature. First off though is this a new
problem or has it always gotten hot? What's the weight and voltage your
running also? If you opt for a new motor maybe a 9" would be a better choice.
If you go that route let me know if there's a 8" used motor available 8^ ) If
you are in Oregon and want me to take a look, maybe I could talk you into
adding a tach sensor to boot 8^ P
IMO it'll be a better deal to not burn this up, even if you need to trade it
in for the larger 9 as oppossed to having a burnt core.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm starting to get a rather interesting smell which
I'm fairly certain is from my motor.
It happens between 30-40, and generally on an uphill
stretch.
I've tried to keep first gear just under 40, as Lynn
(similar vehicle) had a tach, and found that this
would keep the RPMs under 6000. (8" ADC).
It seems my options are:
a) pull the car out of service for a week or more, and
get the motor to a local motor rebuilder for
refurbishing.
b) Order a new Netgain, and pull the car down for a
day when the motor comes in.
c) Continue to use the vehicle until the motor fails
entirely, then worry about it.
Any idea what I'll be diagnosed with?
Thanks!
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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