EV Digest 5943
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Ranger doner
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Having fun with Go-Carts and Mini- Choppers
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: AC vs DC
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Electric heater installation question
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Reliability vs. Repairability... Re: AC vs DC
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Truck tailgate up vs down, Was=> Re: Ranger doner
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Hot, stinky motor. What does it mean?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Karmann Ghia vs Porsche 914
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric heater installation question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Hot, stinky motor. What does it mean?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Steve Clunn, motor on your website
by "Dale Curren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Bad boy battery charging update - Here's a transformer for you
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Mounting Netgain Warp 9 in an S10
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) More Re: Hot, stinky motor. What does it mean?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Karmann Ghia vs Porsche 914
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Mounting Netgain Warp 9 in an S10
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Seqway scooter rip-off?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Ranger doner
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Seqway scooter rip-off?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV from Brazil
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EV from Brazil
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Electric heater installation question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
--- Begin Message ---
Myth Busters busted the tailgate myth using Ford Clubcab trucks :)
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm going to chime in here also.
>
> I hauled a 5th wheel for 2 years (still have it...) with my F250 and
I got myself a vented tail gate. It also has a low part in the center
so that when you go to hitch up the 5th wheel, all you have to do is
back up the pickup and not lower the tail gate to clear the hitch.
>
> I got the vented tail gate for 2 reasons -
> 1) easier to hitch and unhitch and
> 2) all the full timers that I met said that they got much better
mileage with the vented gate, whether the 5th wheel was hitched or
unhitched.
>
> The vented gate is basically no tail gate at all...
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: Ranger doner
>
>
> > Years ago I had a Toyota pickup. I found it got better mileage
with the gate down. It was really apparent. This would not be the
first time that I've busted the "Mythbusters" on the myths they create...
> >
> > -Ralph
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey All
I believe I posted about Dan's go-cart a bit ago. He'd grabbed a 7" Yale I
have a pile of and we wen't through it. At 24 volts it was under the 5 HP ICE
he had in it before going electric. He aded two more batteries and has just a
two botton speed control, 24 then 48. Well if you hit the 48 from standstill
it'll burn 20 foot of rubber easy. It has a top speed of 35 MPH with a 3.357
gear ratio on like 14" tires. No amp meter yet though, but he can get an hour
on 24 volts and a good 1/2 hour pumping it. The funny thing here is I had some
doubts to this motors ability to take the amps being it's a short comm motor.
So far with a growing number of hours on it the comm is still shinny new. With
the RPM's never getting above 1900 RPM's I'm also pleasantly surprised by how
cool the motor stays and it's fanless to boot! Hey Wayland if you got your
ears on, the next time you come over the mountain you got to factor in a few
minutes of go-cart time in cause I know you'll
love it.
Anyway he's been in my face about my mini-chopper frame still sitting there
since he's all big and bad now 8^ ) One thing that's been holding me back has
been my first motor choice. Being 6" and about 40 to 45 Lbs. it left little
room for batteries and a lot more motor than a little chopper should have.
I've been wanting to know how an MBD Prestolite motor would work. It's 4.5" X
11" and rated 24 volts by Prestolite in the forklift world and weighs about 20
Lbs. The only bummer is it had the crappy 1/4" female slotted end. Well I
couldn't take it anymore and reshafted the littly guy and went to work on
mounting it in. That was cake work, it was making and adapting and mounting
everything else that was the bitch!
At 12 volts with just an on and off switch it wants to pull the front end up
with the 4.5 gear ratio I'm running and has a top speed of a guestimated 18 to
20 MPH so it should be street legal here. I didn't have my camera at the shop
today but I'll get pics up soon. Anyway Dan and I have been like two piglets
on a ten tittied sow with our new little baby EV's 8^ )
Anyway Shawn and Matt if you guys are listening I got her done, well almost
done, running at least. BTW I guess I'd have to call this motor ultimate Tim
being it's almost twice as long as your 4" Tim's 8^ P
Anyway that's what's going on around here.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Suppose you used different sized batteries for the 120v and 240v case;
like ten 12v 100ah for 120v, and twenty 12v 50ah for 240v (so he the two
packs are the same size, weight, and watthour capacities so you have a
fair comparison). Now your 240v pack has twice the number of batteries,
so 2x the number of connectors and wire length as the 120v case. The
120v case has twice the current per wire and per battery; so you have to
use twice the wire size (assuming you size it for a particular
temperature rise). Just like the motor, the 240v case has 4x the
resistance (half the wire size, and twice the length). It runs at half
the current; P = I^2 R, so again, you're right back where you started,
with identical losses for both 120v and 240v packs.
You're forgetting one practical advantage of high voltage low current
wiring Lee. Yes, mathematically losses are the same. But, thinner
cable is so much easier to crimp, route, bend and otherwise to work with.
Because current is low, not-so-tight connections to the battery
posts are acceptable, no melted posts because of high current
through the clamps. Less lead flow because no so much pressure.
Yes, more connections, but the point stands - tightness and cleanliness
of each is not as demanding.
I've done it both ways. Once after I installed 28 Optimas I put
cable jumper on the posts to interconnect 2 of the batteries and
forgot to tighten it at all. With about 20A draw I drove like this
about a month and it went unnoticed.
Try this with low voltage system. So I 100%agree with your math,
but the math is not everything to consider...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will be installing the EV parts heater core in my truck conversion
and I'd appreciate some input on my plans.
I took the plastic end caps (top and bottom) from the original heater
core and made a sheet metal jacket with holes in the broad sides for
air flow. The heater and case from ev parts is bolted to this metal
jacket. The wiring is fished out the spaces the coolant used to flow
through and will follow the stock coolant tubing into the engine
compartment.
For wiring I have 12 gage wire connecting the to the 5 heater element
connectors, and will but this to some 10 gage wire that will connect to
the high voltage pack (144 volts nominal).
For switching I got the relay/snubber package from KTA services.
For safety I want to make it so the relay only closes the high voltage
circuit when the blower is on, as well as when a lighted rocker switch
is in the on position.
The stock system has a blower relay that closes when the fan switch is
turned on to any of the 4 fan levels. I figured I can tap into the
blower relay circuit, adding the rocker switch and then go on the the
KTA relay/snubber package.
Unless my electronics are wrong, which is a strong possibility, if both
the fan and rocker switch are in on positions the 12 v circuit to the
high voltage heater circuit closes and the heater element gets 114p
power.
I also like the idea I have heard of installing a over temp switch.
Where would one get such a beast?
Am I missing something?
Thanks,
John in Massachusetts
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When talking of reliability and repairability, I do not think it is a
comparison of AC vs DC. It is a comparison of manufacturers. For example,
take the Siemens systems. What is their reliability? probably high - it has
a 10 year warranty, built like a tank. Repairability? Well, I don't think
many have really played with the insides, so maybe not much local
experience. What about ADC reliability? I think they have a 1 year
warranty. I have heard of some issues, but like you point out, lots of
people have them and lots of people can fix them. So repairability for ADC
is good.
How about Zilla controllers? I haven't heard any problems with them, so
reliability is probably high. Repairability? Well you'll likely have to
send it back to Otmar, although others may feel inclined to dig into the
electronics to fix them.
It is the quality of the build that makes the product more reliable. It is
the local knowledge and simplicity of design that make it more reliable. Is
the Zilla controller as complex as the Siemens, MES or Solectria?
It is just that DC motors are more common that make the repairability easier
- more people around to service them. It is not the fact that they are DC.
Some might argue that since AC motors and controllers are more complex, they
are harder to repair, however, if there was more local knowledge I do not
think it would be too bad.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nick
Sent: September 29, 2006 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Reliability vs. Repairability... Re: AC vs DC
Just fishing around for opinions and experiences here...
In my observations, DC powered conversions tend to have more reliability
issues than AC powered (more frequent break-downs), but AC powered vehicles
seem to be MUCH more difficult to repair when they do break down. I guess it
is sort of six of one, half a dozen of another, but what's the
opinion/experiences of others on the list?
Nick
Lee Hart wrote:
> Cor van de Water wrote:
>> Due to brush limitations, the DC implementations tend to use a
>> voltage below 200V
>
> Most EV DC motors are derived from fork lift motors. Fork lifts use
> low voltage packs. So, their motors are always built low voltage (like
> 38-72vdc). EVers routinely use them at 2x rated voltage without
> significant problems. But not surprisingly, trying to use them at 3x
> or 4x rated voltage starts to cause problems.
>
> There are certainly no problems designing brushed motors over 200v.
> There are millions of mass-produced 240v DC motors in use all over the
> world. Many are built in both 120v and 240v versions (to satisfy US
> and European markets), and there is no indication that the 240v
> version costs more or is less reliable (or has any efficiency
> difference, for that matter).
>
> If you are going to run at 240vdc, you need a motor that is *designed*
> for that voltage -- not a 72v forklift motor! There are plenty of
> railway, bus, and large industrial DC motors built for high voltages;
> they just don't happen to be as easy to get surplus.
>
>> Another reason for production EVs to use AC may be the absence of
>> brushes, or simply because they expected that in high volume the
>> simpler AC motors would result in an overall lower cost solution, as
>> prices of electronics tend to decrease.
>> Or because they were already familiar with AC, as in the AC
>> alternator
>> - no car has a DC alternator.
>
> I think you're correct. If you don't know anything about DC motors,
> you assume brushes are unreliable; so you try to design them out. If
> you only look at list prices for AC vs. DC motors of a given
> horsepower, the AC ones are cheaper (because they are built in higher
> volumes). If you don't know much about electronics, you'll assume that
> it always gets cheaper (PCs did, didn't they?)
>
> These are all naive assumptions. But, they are probably what led the
> inexperienced auto company engineers to favor AC.
>
> PS: *100%* of the motors in automobiles have brushes. Even the
> alternators have slip rings! If brushes are so bad, why do the auto
> companies use them universally? Why have they never used a brushless
> DC or AC motor with inverter anywhere in any car (except their EVs)?
>
>> Also the perceived risk of a "full on" DC control may have caused
>> them to sway to AC
>
> Perhaps; but no real DC EV has this problem with "full on" failure
> modes; it's always designed out of any production EV. You only find it
> in hobby projects or EVs designed by tiny inexperienced companies.
>
>> or because the professional suppliers were more in the AC camp than
>> the DC suppliers.
>
> That's possible. If you go to a company that specializes in AC motors,
> of course that is what you will get. To a man with a hammer, every
> problem looks like a nail.
>
>> NOTE that in the Prius, the AC motor is entirely in a splash-
>> lubrication oil bath to remove heat from the motor as well as to
>> provide lubrication and removal of wear products.
>> That may be difficult with a DC motor's commutator & brushes.
>
> Starter motors and alternators have brushes, and they are used under
> the hoods of cars, and have no particular problems with their brushes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw that episode of Mythbusters as well. Maybe this really does depend on the
truck because I actually saw the low pressure spinning motion happening the
other day while driving down the freeway. It was a Chevy Avalanche truck that
had a tarp loosely set in the bed. He was going down the freeway at 75mph or so
and the tarp was bouncing around in a ratating motion from the front to back.
It looked like it was going to fly out of the back of the truck, but it just
kept tumbling in a circular motion.
Now alternately on the production S-10 electric trucks they had a half tonneau
cover on the back half of the bed for aerodynamic purposes. We've also done the
5th wheel thing and had the open tail gates as well, but never really paid much
attention to the mileage.
On the Mythbusters episode they used Ford trucks to show the water tank motion
and also in their actual road test. Maybe it's time to build a wind tunnel. I
have a fog machine we can probably use.
Ricky Suiter
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Ranger doner
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 21:18:25 -0700
I'm going to chime in here also.
I hauled a 5th wheel for 2 years (still have it...) with my F250 and I got
myself a vented tail gate. It also has a low part in the center so that when
you go to hitch up the 5th wheel, all you have to do is back up the pickup and
not lower the tail gate to clear the hitch.
I got the vented tail gate for 2 reasons -
1) easier to hitch and unhitch and
2) all the full timers that I met said that they got much better mileage with
the vented gate, whether the 5th wheel was hitched or unhitched.
The vented gate is basically no tail gate at all...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph"
To:
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: Ranger doner
> Years ago I had a Toyota pickup. I found it got better mileage with the gate
> down. It was really apparent. This would not be the first time that I've
> busted the "Mythbusters" on the myths they create...
>
> -Ralph
>
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will first check to make certain that the brushes
are in firm contact with the commutator.
I'm running 144V, and total weight of the vehicle is
3330.
I will also be taking the RPMs down a little bit.
Just because it _can_ go to 6K, doesn't mean I need to
take it there...
I've had one post that believes it is the motor
enamel.
I have a source for another 8" motor about 40 mi.
away, and he goes through (Grants Pass, so southern)
my town every weekday.
I cannot fit a 9" with the current battery
configuration, but would try it next time...
Another colleague feels that I'm consuming excess amps
b/c of taking the RPMs there, which is heating it up.
I'm not so sure about that, but we'll see.
I have a local motor guru who should be able to do the
swap, so it's down for a short while...
Thanks for the help and interest,
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Bob
>
> Aren't you here in Oregon? If so what area?
> Seeing what's going on now will save you a lot of
> bucks off getting a new motor or even having to wind
> the armature. First off though is this a new
> problem or has it always gotten hot? What's the
> weight and voltage your running also? If you opt
> for a new motor maybe a 9" would be a better choice.
> If you go that route let me know if there's a 8"
> used motor available 8^ ) If you are in Oregon and
> want me to take a look, maybe I could talk you into
> adding a tach sensor to boot 8^ P
> IMO it'll be a better deal to not burn this up,
> even if you need to trade it in for the larger 9 as
> oppossed to having a burnt core.
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm starting to get a rather interesting smell
> which
> I'm fairly certain is from my motor.
> It happens between 30-40, and generally on an uphill
> stretch.
> I've tried to keep first gear just under 40, as Lynn
> (similar vehicle) had a tach, and found that this
> would keep the RPMs under 6000. (8" ADC).
>
> It seems my options are:
> a) pull the car out of service for a week or more,
> and
> get the motor to a local motor rebuilder for
> refurbishing.
> b) Order a new Netgain, and pull the car down for a
> day when the motor comes in.
> c) Continue to use the vehicle until the motor fails
> entirely, then worry about it.
>
> Any idea what I'll be diagnosed with?
> Thanks!
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch
> too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas
> for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah, you are talking about mounting the flywheel. I'll give you that.
However, the Ghia flywheel will fit in the 914 transmission. Not 100%
sure about the other way around.
The plate should be the same. You can bolt a type IV motor (914 motor) up
to a type I/II/III transmission (Ghia is a type I), I've done it before.
I needed to swap clutch plates to match the transmission spline, but that
was the only problem I had.
> At 07:35 PM 9/29/2006, you wrote:
>>Yes the transmission adapter is identical.
>
> They are very close, but NOT identical. The adaptor hub is different
> (one large gland nut for the Ghia vs. five small bolts for the 914),
> the ring is different thickness, and there is a slight difference in
> the profile plate.
>
> Mike Brown
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
You can get high temperature limits, operating limits, etc, from a plumbing
and heating supply company which may be wholesale. I like to use the
Honeywell devices. You may get some of these units from Home Depot.
The high temperature limits are normally set for 180 F. and the operating
temperature is set or I used a adjustable one that goes from 110 to 140
degrees.
The operating temperature limit is a fan limit, that turns on the fan when
the heater is above 110 to 140 degrees and is off when its below 110
degrees. You do not want cold air blowing on you when the heater is turn
off, but allows the heater elements to cool down after the thermostat shuts
off the power to the heater.
The reason this is done for electric heaters and some gas fire units, is
that if you turn off all the power to the unit plus the fans, the elements
may be at full heating and some of these units need air flow across these
elements until they cool down, or you could reduce the life of the elements
or even burn them out. This also reduces the temperature of the heater
housing at that time which can increase if the fans go off.
Another thing you could do, before you install your heater unit, is to
rework the heater doors. There is one that brings outside fresh air and a
inside one that closes at different positions.
In a engine hot water heating, some of these engines are now running there
coolant temp up to 260 degrees F at about 20 psi. They use the cold
outside air to temper this temperature.
In using a hot water electric heater core, I find that I could adjust the
outside door to where it may just bring in a very little air or nothing at
all. I add a by pass duct so I now can recirculate the inside air.
On my daily travel at temperatures below 0 degrees, it now only takes only
15 minutes of having the heating on per hour instead of going full on all
the time.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: Electric heater installation question
> I will be installing the EV parts heater core in my truck conversion
> and I'd appreciate some input on my plans.
>
> I took the plastic end caps (top and bottom) from the original heater
> core and made a sheet metal jacket with holes in the broad sides for
> air flow. The heater and case from ev parts is bolted to this metal
> jacket. The wiring is fished out the spaces the coolant used to flow
> through and will follow the stock coolant tubing into the engine
> compartment.
>
> For wiring I have 12 gage wire connecting the to the 5 heater element
> connectors, and will but this to some 10 gage wire that will connect to
> the high voltage pack (144 volts nominal).
>
> For switching I got the relay/snubber package from KTA services.
> For safety I want to make it so the relay only closes the high voltage
> circuit when the blower is on, as well as when a lighted rocker switch
> is in the on position.
>
> The stock system has a blower relay that closes when the fan switch is
> turned on to any of the 4 fan levels. I figured I can tap into the
> blower relay circuit, adding the rocker switch and then go on the the
> KTA relay/snubber package.
>
> Unless my electronics are wrong, which is a strong possibility, if both
> the fan and rocker switch are in on positions the 12 v circuit to the
> high voltage heater circuit closes and the heater element gets 114p
> power.
>
> I also like the idea I have heard of installing a over temp switch.
>
> Where would one get such a beast?
>
>
> Am I missing something?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> John in Massachusetts
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath"> I cannot fit a 9" with the current battery
configuration, but would try it next time...
I just put a impulse 9 in a hynida , has the same bolt paten as your 8 ,,,
and is the same length. This would give you a bit more motor . Would be nice
for the rest of us , to get some real world experience between the two in
the same car . Do it for science :-) Your car sound a little heavy for a
8 , . I'm heating my 8 up on the lawn mower :-)
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
I see an 11 inch motor with a yoke for a universal joint. Is this a 1 to 1 set
up or a built-in gear reduction? Does it have a method for reverse?
Dale Curren
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These people regularly sell transformers like this on EBay which are the right
size for a 144 volt dim boy charger:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180033607453&ssPageName=ADME:B:FSEL:US:1
Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Storm, I have been using a similar
design to charge a 156 volt pack for six months now.
<snip>
For 144 volts it's even easier.
<snip>
You can get 12 to 15 volt transformers with a 15 + amp capacity off of EBay
pretty regularly for about $25 - $30 including shipping.
<snip>
Storm Connors wrote: This thread was triggered by looking at Martin's
contribution:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/badboy.gif 2
questions. What was he using for a transformer? It
doesn't say in the writeup or diagram. And, how did it
work out. He indicates that he had just built it and
was going to try it out.
storm
-
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Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All -
Does anyone have any experience w/ this?? I ordered the motor mount and
adaptor kit, but it appears that the "lifting hole" for the ADC 9" is not
present on the Netgain Warp 9, which is also the spot where the motor mount
is designed to bolt into......
BTW, how am I supposed to lift the Netgain Warp 9?? I guess I could do it
w/ straps, but then I am still left w/ how to mount it....I'm starting to
feel like I should have stuck w/ the ADC 9.....
Thx, Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I'm realizing now that at the end of my drive,
it's always gotten hot, especially as I live at the
top of a pretty decent hill.
Yes, it's a very new issue for my rig, out of 6.5K
miles put on it.
--- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey Bob
>
> Aren't you here in Oregon? If so what area?
> Seeing what's going on now will save you a lot of
> bucks off getting a new motor or even having to wind
> the armature. First off though is this a new
> problem or has it always gotten hot? What's the
> weight and voltage your running also? If you opt
> for a new motor maybe a 9" would be a better choice.
> If you go that route let me know if there's a 8"
> used motor available 8^ ) If you are in Oregon and
> want me to take a look, maybe I could talk you into
> adding a tach sensor to boot 8^ P
> IMO it'll be a better deal to not burn this up,
> even if you need to trade it in for the larger 9 as
> oppossed to having a burnt core.
> Hope this helps
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm starting to get a rather interesting smell
> which
> I'm fairly certain is from my motor.
> It happens between 30-40, and generally on an uphill
> stretch.
> I've tried to keep first gear just under 40, as Lynn
> (similar vehicle) had a tach, and found that this
> would keep the RPMs under 6000. (8" ADC).
>
> It seems my options are:
> a) pull the car out of service for a week or more,
> and
> get the motor to a local motor rebuilder for
> refurbishing.
> b) Order a new Netgain, and pull the car down for a
> day when the motor comes in.
> c) Continue to use the vehicle until the motor fails
> entirely, then worry about it.
>
> Any idea what I'll be diagnosed with?
> Thanks!
>
> Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch
> too!
> Learn more at:
> www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas
> for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make
> PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 29, 2006, at 8:35 PM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
The Ghia has four seats, the 914 only two. Granted the Ghia seats are
only good for small children,
Or groceries. The 914 has very little cargo space, especially after
you fill it with EV components.
Most of the Ghias didn't have seat belts in the rear seats. I'd
hesitate to put children back there, or any human beings for that
matter.
however this means it has less room in the front seats.
On the other hand, how far can you recline the front seats on a 914? I
get the impression that it's not far. The firewall is in the way. My
Ghia seats will recline far enough to stretch out almost flat.
(They're custom Scat seats, though. Stock seats might not recline at
all.)
Another feature of the Scat seats is that they're higher off the floor.
You can see out better, but the cockpit feels much more cramped than
it does with the lower stock seats. It fits me fine, but the 914
cockpit feels more spacious for one or two people.
Other pros/cons:
The Ghia engine bay and tranny are very easily accessible at the rear
of the car. The 914 is mid-engined and the space is tighter.
The Ghia has a couple of large square areas for mounting batteries.
The 914 has a larger area up front but less opportunity for easy
battery mounting in the rear.
The 914 has a targa top. That would be really nice - my Ghia is a
coupe. OTOH, Ghias are available as convertibles, although they're
rarer, more expensive, heavier, weaker, and have less room for
batteries. (I want one anyway....)
Parts for the Porsche are more expensive.
There's at least one EV kit available for the 914, saving you lots of
work.
The 914 has all-wheel disk brakes (? Is this true?). The Ghia has
disks in the front and drums in the rear.
914s tend to rust out more than the Ghias. IOW, it's harder to find a
clean 914 than a clean Ghia (although it can certainly be done, and
there are a lot of rusty Ghias out there.)
914s have a fan and ductwork and dashboard vents for moving air around,
making them easier to install an electric heater into. The Ghia's
ventilation blower goes away with the ICE, and the ductwork is all in
the floor. Mine is covered with carpet anyway. I'm using the ductwork
for cable conduits instead.
Ghias are cuter :)
I went for the Ghia over the 914 because of the extra cargo space,
extra working space, lower cost, and the car's looks. I wish I had the
targa top and the all-wheel disk brakes. And I can buy rear disk brake
kits if I want.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mick,
I used the same equipment that I used for a engine.
A engine hoist if you going to put in the motor through the motor bay or
lift it to place it on other supports. You can also build a A-frame, like a
swing set for child.
If you ceiling is still open, than you can triple up three 2 by 12's that
would go above the ceiling joist or rafters and support by the walls. If
you cannot get the beam on the wall, than you can support it with two beam
supports which is made out of 2 inch steel pipe with flanges which are a
standard stock item.
A transmission jack if you are going to place it from the bottom of the car.
I used both methods, I use the engine hoist a nylon strap loop down around
the input and pilot shaft of the motor. While it is suspended, I can spin
it around while working on the motor.
If you do not have a pilot shaft, than you will have to loop the nylon strap
with eye loop sew in at each end. Loop the strap around the motor and slip
it threw one of the eye loops and tighten it up, so the motor will not slip
off the straps.
I built my own transmission-motor jack, by making a cradle to fit the motor
curve. I used a small low profile hydralic floor jack. I went to a steel
yard and had them cut me off a 4 inch piece of 10 inch pipe tubing.
Cut this pipe in half, where you have a C section that fits the curve of the
motor. I welded a channel on to the this half section and bolted another
channel to the jack pad. I welded on a 1 inch angle on the ends, where I can
bolt on a nylon strap over the top of the motor.
I drill a 3/8 inch bolt hole right threw the center of the jack pad and
bolted on a 2 inch steel channel which is 1/4 inch thick. A 3 inch channel
is welded to the 1/2 curve pipe section slips over the 2 inch channel on the
floor jack and is bolted together with a long 4 inch 3/8 bolt.
Now this motor support on the jack can pilot 360 degrees which the jack pad
and can swing up and down.
I can lift the motor and transmission in all one unit from the bottom of the
car. In some cases you may have to unbolt the transmission mount for
clearance.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: Mounting Netgain Warp 9 in an S10
> All -
>
> Does anyone have any experience w/ this?? I ordered the motor mount and
> adaptor kit, but it appears that the "lifting hole" for the ADC 9" is not
> present on the Netgain Warp 9, which is also the spot where the motor
> mount
> is designed to bolt into......
>
> BTW, how am I supposed to lift the Netgain Warp 9?? I guess I could do it
> w/ straps, but then I am still left w/ how to mount it....I'm starting to
> feel like I should have stuck w/ the ADC 9.....
>
> Thx, Mike
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, has anyone played with one of these Sort-of-Segway rip-offs yet?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000ER9QK4/sr=1-11/qid=1159630159/ref=sr_1_11/102-3224364-4168934?%5Fencoding=UTF8&me=A1N8YDZFW5QVB6&v=glance
"4 wheel stand-up Electric Chariot Scooter - similar to
Segway "
Yeah, 4 wheels, but they do their best to make it look like 2.
--
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I
dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> 2) all the full timers that I met said that they got much
> better mileage with the vented gate, whether the 5th wheel
> was hitched or unhitched.
Presumably you have/had a stock tailgate for your F250 also; did *you*
measure any significant diference in mileage between the two? I suspect
a lot of full-timers haven't measured either, but simply parrot the
marketing claims because everyone "knows" that leaving the tailgate
open/off, etc. *must* improve the mileage. It would be really
interesting to have actual mileage figures for a closed stock tailgate,
an open tailgate, and a vented 5th wheel tailgate on the same vehicle...
It is entirely possible that the open tailgate mileage is *worse* than
either of the alternatives.
> The vented gate is basically no tail gate at all...
Don't bet on it ;^> Someone was telling me the other day about towing
one of those utility trailers with the mesh/screen tailgate/loading
ramps. The ramp/tailgate is normally folded up so it sticks straight up
in the air, but it is see-through mesh, so no one gives it a second
thought. Well, this person found that they just couldn't get up to
cruising speed on the highway, even with the trailer empty, and
eventually pulled over and removed the mesh tailgate and laid it flat on
the trailer... lo and behold, no problem running right on up to the 70
or 80mph or so they wanted to cruise at.
Now since I started this, let me remind people that my original point
was not whether an open or closed tailgate is more or less efficient,
but that one should *measure* for themselves to determine what
configuration is more efficient for them in their particular situation
(e.g short or long bed, etc). In this specific case, the point wasn't
open or closed tailgates, but rather replacing a stock box with a
flatbed, and my suggestion was to *not* assume which is more efficient,
but to measure the efficiency with the stock box first so that one can
determine if the later change to a flatbed is an improvement or not.
By all means don't trust me, science, Mythbusters, or the gov't; measure
it for yourself! Just don't stick your head in the sand and ignore the
possibility that what you "know" might be incorrect.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Another lower cost electric model...
http://www.obvio.ind.br/obviona/828.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric version - model 012E - preliminary specifications
Range 200 – 240 miles
Acceleration 0 to 60 < 4.5 secs with 200HP's and CVT transmission system
Top Speed 120 mph
Charge rate 30 minutes for 20 – 50 miles
Full Charge 2 hrs (fast), 5 hrs (normal)
Electric Propulsion
Drive system 120 kW, 220 Nm, 13,000 rpm
Regenerative braking
Battery Li Ion, 39 kWh, 580 lb
Charger Onboard, plug in anywhere - up to 20 kW
Vehicle to grid (V2G) Bi-directional grid interface
Targeted price 012E will be US$59,000.
http://www.obvio.ind.br/obviona/012.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John:
I installed that EV parts ceramic core on 144 and its working real nice.
It's wired about as you explained - low side to relay in series an aux switch
and fan switch. Both sides of the high side through a relay with magnetic
blowouts with both sides of the 144 v line *fused*. High side also goes through
a current shunt that operates a little amp meter just so I can keep an eye on
it.
Heat really bothered me when I started the project - the core seems to work
good. I used little copper buss bars to hook up the elements. If you use
sta-cons, the wiring gets out of hand, especially trying to keep everything
within the case.
Good luck -
Dana
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I will be installing the EV parts heater core in my truck conversion
> and I'd appreciate some input on my plans.
>
> I took the plastic end caps (top and bottom) from the original heater
> core and made a sheet metal jacket with holes in the broad sides for
> air flow. The heater and case from ev parts is bolted to this metal
> jacket. The wiring is fished out the spaces the coolant used to flow
> through and will follow the stock coolant tubing into the engine
> compartment.
>
> For wiring I have 12 gage wire connecting the to the 5 heater element
> connectors, and will but this to some 10 gage wire that will connect to
> the high voltage pack (144 volts nominal).
>
> For switching I got the relay/snubber package from KTA services.
> For safety I want to make it so the relay only closes the high voltage
> circuit when the blower is on, as well as when a lighted rocker switch
> is in the on position.
>
> The stock system has a blower relay that closes when the fan switch is
> turned on to any of the 4 fan levels. I figured I can tap into the
> blower relay circuit, adding the rocker switch and then go on the the
> KTA relay/snubber package.
>
> Unless my electronics are wrong, which is a strong possibility, if both
> the fan and rocker switch are in on positions the 12 v circuit to the
> high voltage heater circuit closes and the heater element gets 114p
> power.
>
> I also like the idea I have heard of installing a over temp switch.
>
> Where would one get such a beast?
>
>
> Am I missing something?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> John in Massachusetts
>
--- End Message ---
