EV Digest 5958
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) New EV inn Connecticut
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Theoretical question re: series vs. parallel motors
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: #21
by "Kenneth Dove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: PFC-30 Question, Standard practice or sacrilege?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Stupid Question?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Stupid Question?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Zilla controls backordered? - why not order and start building?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Stupid Question?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Pimped Sleeper (Re: Blue Xebra on Ebay)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Build EV For Someone Else
by Pat Mackey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Pimped Sleeper (Re: Blue Xebra on Ebay)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Battery boxes
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Stupid Question?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with automatic
transmission?
by "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: My EV doesn't make economical sense?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Stupid Question?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: My EV doesn't make economical sense?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: Zilla controls backordered? - why not order and start building?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Vacuum Reservoir
by John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Our litigious society
by "Steve Kobb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: AW: series wound motor
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Battery boxes
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Vacuum Reservoir
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) NiMH 1.2V 500 Ah floodies
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Article about Andy Maciejczyk's Golf and Rod Wilde about
the difficulty and patriotism to build an EV.
My only gripe is the statement about the generator
on the wheels - no doubt that the intention is to
get regenerative braking, but it is worded like the
perpetuum mobile...
http://www.connpost.com/business/ci_4422777
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, so I've got a Tropica I'm putting together, with 2 ADC 6.7" motors, one
driving each rear wheel. I've sent the controller off to Logisystems for an
upgrade to 144 volts and a bucket o'amps. Now I'm mulling over the series vs.
parallel options. The Tropica is designed to run on 72 volts - one of the
designs had dual 72 volt 400 amp controllers, one per motor - and the gearing
will take it to around 60 mph at 72 volts, I'm told.
So here's my question: the controller should push out sufficient volts and
amps to run either series or parallel at speeds up to 60. In parallel, I'll be
dividing the amps by 2, while pushing full voltage into each motor. In series,
it'll be 1/2 the volts but all the amps for each ADC. If I assume that most of
my driving will be at speeds which wil draw between 40 and 72 volts, which mode
is better at those speeds?
I can think of a variety of potential power-sharing issues, but I doubt that
they have a significant effect in the real world, unless I'm starting up with
one wheel on snow or ice or something. If that isn't really a significant
factor, it seems to me that it boils down to this: Is it easier on the
controller to be running at, say, 200 amps and a 40% duty cycle, or 100 amps
and a 80% duty cycle? Or do I have it all wrong? I realize that to go over 60
I'll need to be in parallel, to get the volts, but below that??? (I am
intalling a series/parallel set of switches, so I can experiment, but I'm
looking for a theory to test, at least.)
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you, or your company, have a website?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sharon G Alexander
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: #21
Hi we just pulled EV #21 in the shop. will do a tear down, make battetry
boxes, 20 under the bed,4 whee the rad use to sit, change rear springs,
and repaint it, have to wait for the Warp 9, and controller. but by the
time there here at the shop, the truck should be on the road in 4 or 5
days. at least all the BS of converting will be done, just mate the
motor to the trans, and slap in all the wireing. Wayne, newton Ks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Dave,
I just cut off the AC plug and connect the ends to a power block (is a large
terminal strip). From this strip I ran the same size cord to a water tight
very tough nylon Daniel Woodhead female twist lock connector from a
electrical supply house. While I was there, I pick up a new plug that I
could put on if I need to pull the charger for testing or maintenance.
I place this in a cast aluminum housing with a gasket spring hinge cover.
This housing hinge cover is also attach the back of the gas door, so when
you open the gas door, the connector housing covers opens too.
Then I use a water tight Daniel Woodhead male twist lock plug that overlaps
the receptacle by about 1 inch to make it more water tight.
The cord end goes straight in through a large taper rubber cord seals and
and the wire ends are set screw to large box type connectors.
This connector is so tough, and forgot to unplug the cord, the strand wires
will pull right out of the box lugs with no damage to the plug or
receptacle.
Did this many times, before I stall a micro switch with a long 2 inch throw
which is mounted inside this aluminum housing. This activates a relay which
controls the 12 VDC ignition control.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: PFC-30 Question, Standard practice or sacrilege?
> I have a question about how people install PFCs in their car. Mine came
> with a nice big plug on
> the power cord, but I was thinking of hard wiring it into the car. I
> bought the parts to basically
> put an outlet inside my car, so the charger would plug in to the car and
> the car would plug in to
> the wall outlet. Has anyone wired their charger directly to the car? Did
> you just cut the plug
> off? I plan on using the Anderson connector to hook it to the batteries
> and I like the idea of
> being able to quickly disconnect the charger and pull it from the car.
> This also let's me charge
> other packs if I need to. But I also like the idea of making a nice clean
> installation with
> minimal connections.
>
> Sometimes the simple things hang you up the most.
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David ,
Sorry, that is "Y Speed Rated".
https://www.tiresavings.com/tireShop.php?action=findMan2&manufacturer=Pirell
i&tirename=PZero+Rosso+Direzionale&season=
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Build EV For Someone Else
Now I'm in lust!
A couple random thoughts:
Since you can paint body panels before the car is assembled, you
should be able to paint for cheaper.
I didn't see an "x" rating on a couple tire charts I checked,
what speed is that good for? Luckily you are near the Salt Flats and
Miller Motorsports Park and can legally and safely test the limits. A
very excellent all around tire like a 186 mph BFG KDW goes for about
$110/tire -- do you really need $300 tires? Likewise I'm sure you can
get much cheaper wheels. Another humble suggestion, get a set of true
race tires (like Hoosiers at $200/each). Go to a SCCA handling
test-n-tune at Wendover (really really grippy brushed concrete), and
you can set some incredible lateral g numbers. Then buy some drag
race skinnies for the Salt Flats and pick up 10 mph. Then get a set
of drag radials for the drag strip.
--- Curtis Muhlestein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I will not use any part of the Fiero. In the past 6 months or so
> they have
> started to produce a custom cassis, which I will use. Take and
> minus $5,000
> for engine then add the $20,000. With $5,000 for a paint job,
> $3,400 for
> wheels and $1,200 for X speed rated tires, I am having a hard time
> keeping
> it under $80,000 which is my goal. If I can find a way to automate
> the
> building of the custom cassis, maybe I can cut another $5,000 off
> the top.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Curtis Muhlestein
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:20 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Build EV For Someone Else
>
> Cor van de Water,
> I have someone for the CFO position. I am also looking for a
> Marketing
> Director.
>
> Jerry Dycus,
> The design that we have settled on is:
> http://www.ifgonline.com/Phantom6/
>
> David Dymaxion,
> Thanks for your comments and support.
>
> Once we complete the team then we will be finishing the business
> plan that
> we have started. We feel it is important to build the team first
> and then
> with the team in place, continue to develop the business.
>
> There are many reasons why I wanted to keep this quite for as long
> as I
> could, but after asking various direct question and really no
> direct
> answers, I thought that it was time to share my idea with you.
>
> Because of the design that we have selected, we want it to perform
> comparably, using lead acid batteries. We are looking forward to
> all the
> new developments such as
> http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/09/brown_universit.html .
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack,
If I only get 1% of Tesla sales, I will be happy.
BTW did you know that in 2009, California will require 10% of all new
vehicles sold to be zero emissions? They have also modified their building
code this year. Every new home will have a charging station and for
commercial, a certain percentage of the parking spaces need to have charging
stations.
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Build EV For Someone Else
I'll give you my advice, having thought through a similiar business.
I would not suggest you try to be Tesla better than Tesla. They can
sell $100K cars because they are silicon valley high-media high-dollar
profile, you are not going to compete with that, and they are way ahead
of you.
You need to look forward and anticipate the next thing, not the current
thing. Tesla has said they will have a 4-passenger, maybe 4-door car
"later". Beat them to later. Offer something the others don't.
Maybe a soccer mom mini-van, or a "cross-over" wagon/suv.
Not sexy is it? A successful business is about competition and
profitability.
Jack
Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
> Cor van de Water,
> I have someone for the CFO position. I am also looking for a Marketing
> Director.
>
> Jerry Dycus,
> The design that we have settled on is:
> http://www.ifgonline.com/Phantom6/
>
> David Dymaxion,
> Thanks for your comments and support.
>
> Once we complete the team then we will be finishing the business plan that
> we have started. We feel it is important to build the team first and then
> with the team in place, continue to develop the business.
>
> There are many reasons why I wanted to keep this quite for as long as I
> could, but after asking various direct question and really no direct
> answers, I thought that it was time to share my idea with you.
>
> Because of the design that we have selected, we want it to perform
> comparably, using lead acid batteries. We are looking forward to all the
> new developments such as
> http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/09/brown_universit.html .
>
> Curtis Muhlestein
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:02 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Build EV For Someone Else
>
>
>>Maybe the following will give you moiré information to what I am
>
> trying to
>
>>do. I have already contacted the EV'ers here in Northern Utah.
>>
>>For more than 26 years I have wanted to build an EV. I have been
>
> going to
>
>>GreenCarCogress.com and other web sites everyday for the past 18
>
> months. It
>
>>is very clear to me that with the current advancements in technology
>
> that it
>
>>is time to build.
>>
>>I own the domain, DriveElectric.net (currently not up) and the DBA,
>
> (doing
>
>>business as) Drive Electric here in Utah. I am looking to put
>
> together a
>
>>team to build and sell EV's. If Tesla Motors, Universal Electric
>
> Vehicle
>
>>Inc., Mullen Motor Company and Phoenix Motorcars can do it, so can I.
>>
>>I have a BS in computer science and associate degree in automotive
>
> service,
>
>>both degrees from Weber State. I currently am working as a senior
>
> software
>
>>engineer, but I have also designed, drafted and built my own 2
>
> story, 3,700
>
>>sq. ft. home.
>>
>>We are looking for a COO to join our team and be a part of the start-up
>>process. If you know anyone who would be interested, please have
>
> them send
>
>>me their resume.
>>
>>Curtis Muhlestein
>>President & CEO
>>Drive Electric
>>
>
>
> I glad you gave us "moiré" information and made your intentions clear.
> Now you'll have more input that you care to read. What market are
> you aiming for, and what kind of investment funds do you have access
> to? The Tesla and X-1 cover the expensive sports car end, and the
> Xebra the cheap underpowered Chinese junk section. What do you want to
> sell?
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a theoretical and possibly stupid question:
To reduce weight as well as complexity, can the transmission be removed and
the drive shaft connected directly to the motor?
Shifting isn't really necessary, right?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael , this question has been answered many times in the past (even as
recent as last week), please check the archive. Also check the FAQ at
evparts.com
The answer is "it depends". Upon the torque curve of the motor, motor max
RPM and range of drive speed desired. You will need some kind of reduction
gear, so the easiest and cheapest is to keep the transmission. So the
question usually turns out be: can I remove the gears and shifter and or
remove the clutch?
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Trefry
Sent: October 3, 2006 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Stupid Question?
Just a theoretical and possibly stupid question:
To reduce weight as well as complexity, can the transmission be removed and
the drive shaft connected directly to the motor?
Shifting isn't really necessary, right?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe it's just a matter of if there are any qualified solder techs on
this list that would be willing to lend their time to help Otmar get
caught up with the backlog?
http://cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where do I find the archive?
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Stupid Question?
Hi Michael , this question has been answered many times in the past (even as
recent as last week), please check the archive. Also check the FAQ at
evparts.com
The answer is "it depends". Upon the torque curve of the motor, motor max
RPM and range of drive speed desired. You will need some kind of reduction
gear, so the easiest and cheapest is to keep the transmission. So the
question usually turns out be: can I remove the gears and shifter and or
remove the clutch?
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Trefry
Sent: October 3, 2006 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Stupid Question?
Just a theoretical and possibly stupid question:
To reduce weight as well as complexity, can the transmission be removed and
the drive shaft connected directly to the motor?
Shifting isn't really necessary, right?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking, what if ... ?
IMHO:
So someone bags a cheap China EV at a good price but boosts
(pimps out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp_My_Ride ) its performance up,
yet all the public can see is a slow looking EV (a sleeper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeper_%28car%29 ).
Now you have a 'new' looking ride with that new car smell, better
performance from the upgrades, and are running in stealth mode as
no one is the wiser (?). I am pretty sure the police are clueless
about EVs.
So how much would it cost to trick out a nEV or low end EV like a
Xebra to something with worthy performance, range & charging?
Bells and whistles I would want to see:
- Link-10 emeter mounted in the dash
- replace the wimpy charger (i.e. with a PFC-30 charger powered via
an AVCON port mounted in the front or from an AC inlet
[
http://www.c-mesales.com/contents/media/t_Marinco%20Charger%20Inlet.png
]
- replace the wimpy controller (i.e.: with a Zilla ZK1)
- replace the pack (i.e.: a Li-ion pack, or a NiMHi pack, or at
least a pack of 6 V wet cell traction batteries to get the range
up)
- Lastly, put a better entertainment system in, but not too
powerful (you don't want to drain the main pack - just some decent
sound).
Did I forget anything?
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been "noodling" on this subject myself...
Maybe my thoughts are in line with yours:
- I don't think the market needs another high end EV - Tesla, Tango, Venturi
are plenty. And without deep pockets no one can compete.
- The low end of the market is covered with NEVs - low speed utilitarian
devices.
- Mid range is open. A number of companies tried to fill this hole and have
failed. I believe the market has changed enough so that a properly run/funded
business can succeed in this space today.
Next to align what is possible to what the market desires:
My thoughts are around a small, light, sporty "second car" designed as a
commuter/grocery getter. Think Miata.
- 2 door 2 seater
- cute, not racy styling and not a replica - I don't think people want their EV
to look like a 50's sports car
- soft top - low weight and sporty
- room for 3-4 grocery bags, set of golf clubs or overnight bag
- 60 mile range
- 110 volt onboard overnight charging - 220 off board as an option
- maintenance free batteries - IMO consumers hate the idea of watering
batteries and dealing with acid
- 0-60 in the 16 second range (again, think Miata)
- 65 to 80 mph top speed
- $25k to $30k list
Can it be done with *current* technology?
I think the answer is yes, but a low weight glider is part of the equation.
Full fiberglass/composite monocoque chassis is possible, but IMO the market is
not ready for it.
I think the market would accept fiberglass over tube frame construction.
Safety concerns will need to be covered regardless.
Main problem I see are:
- getting it certified with the feds so that it can be sold in the US.
- dealer network for sales and service
- lease/finance options are needed to compete
May want to start by selling kits which would avoid these issues and get your
cash flow started.
Just my thoughts, nothing more.
=Pat
----- Original Message ----
From: Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2006 2:06:05 PM
Subject: Re: Build EV For Someone Else
Curtis wrote:
> Using Lead Acid Batteries
Ideally, for best results, use some bats/caps that aren't out yet.
Until then though, your best bet might be these:
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm
The prices are "ok". I imagine they would be really good if you can
get them direct or at a volume discount:
http://www.remybattery.com/category.aspx?categoryID=263199&startpage=1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What??? Really?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: RE: Build EV For Someone Else
BTW did you know that in 2009, California will require 10% of all new
vehicles sold to be zero emissions? They have also modified their
building
code this year. Every new home will have a charging station and for
commercial, a certain percentage of the parking spaces need to have
charging
stations.
Curtis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce,
Electronic stability control!
as the three-wheeler (1 front) will really easily tip over
when braking and steering.
Essentially, the driver much choose between braking *OR*
steering and the latter better not at too high speed or
it will still tip over.
Please read the reports on the drive-tests and the
warning from the dealer.
Upgrade to Z1K? Better not.
Waaaaaaay to much power for this covered motorcycle.
If you want car performance, you better start with a
car (ie 4 wheels) or at least consider stability as
an important factor.
If you want motorcycle performance, then 2 wheels is
better - though there are even covered motorcycles that
lean over in the curves.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of bruce parmenter
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:35 PM
To: evlist
Subject: Pimped Sleeper (Re: Blue Xebra on Ebay)
I was thinking, what if ... ?
IMHO:
So someone bags a cheap China EV at a good price but boosts
(pimps out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp_My_Ride ) its performance up,
yet all the public can see is a slow looking EV (a sleeper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeper_%28car%29 ).
Now you have a 'new' looking ride with that new car smell, better
performance from the upgrades, and are running in stealth mode as
no one is the wiser (?). I am pretty sure the police are clueless
about EVs.
So how much would it cost to trick out a nEV or low end EV like a
Xebra to something with worthy performance, range & charging?
Bells and whistles I would want to see:
- Link-10 emeter mounted in the dash
- replace the wimpy charger (i.e. with a PFC-30 charger powered via
an AVCON port mounted in the front or from an AC inlet
[
http://www.c-mesales.com/contents/media/t_Marinco%20Charger%20Inlet.png
]
- replace the wimpy controller (i.e.: with a Zilla ZK1)
- replace the pack (i.e.: a Li-ion pack, or a NiMHi pack, or at
least a pack of 6 V wet cell traction batteries to get the range
up)
- Lastly, put a better entertainment system in, but not too
powerful (you don't want to drain the main pack - just some decent
sound).
Did I forget anything?
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Answering all the questions.... <G>
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Jack wrote -
> Shari, what is the most difficult and time consuming part of
> converting a car to electric?
> Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What??? Really?
>
>
> > BTW did you know that in 2009, California will require 10% of all new
> > vehicles sold to be zero emissions? They have also modified their
> > building
> > code this year. Every new home will have a charging station and for
> > commercial, a certain percentage of the parking spaces need to have
> > charging
> > stations.
> >
> > Curtis
> >
>
Yeah, Dmitri, I had the same reaction, and I live in CA! Curtis, it
would be better if you could supply us with a link for this legislation.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Where do I find the archive?
>
> Thanks!
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/ works best, but
there are other sites online.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I'm interested in converting a car to electric and would like to have a car
that doesn't involve stick shifting while driving, so I was looking at either
converting cars with automatic transmission or just "jamming" (aka keeping) the
manual transmission in a gear (like 3rd) and using that all the time.
SO, Is it actually feasible to convert a car with automatic transmission and
keep it?
I'd be interested in doing that as then we'd be able to use any car we'd like
that may not have a manual version of itself.
Thanks so much for your help with this!
Sincerely,
Adan Vielma
Lewis & Clark College
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In a message dated 10/3/2006 4:19:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Anyway this post lead me to wonder if in fact you've been able to get an EV
grin yet?
I sent the following to the BMW motorcycle chat-list I belong to, a few days
ago.
That incident sure gave ME the "EV grin"...
Matt Parkhouse, Colorado Springs
<<<Had a similar moment a few days ago on my "new" BMW/electric trike ( I
like Joe's tag: Slash 5E ). Crossing Downtown on a fine Colorado Fall
afternoon. I silently glide up to a red light, next to a stereotypical
YUPPIE in a
very new high-end Mercedes convertable. Oozing smugness, he didn't deign
to look over at the tweed-clad rabble on the Mad Max creation next to him. We
wait for the light to change. A VERY attractive young 20-something in office
garb is walking her bicycle past us in the crosswalk. She gives Mr. Yuppie
a very quick glance and then spots me on the trike. "Wow!, it that electric?"
"Yeah, it is" sez I. "That is SO COOL!" she exclaims as she gives me "the
look" as long as the "WALK" sign allows.... I watch the lights and wick it up
as the green appears, beating the Mercedes across the intersection. Those
electric motors have fantastic torque as you're starting out - Zero to 20 mph
is achieved in quite quick time - have a Signa bicycle speedometer set up and
calibrated now.....>>>>
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> - I don't think the market needs another high end EV - Tesla, Tango,
Venturi are plenty. And without deep pockets no one can compete.
Agreed. Those don't look like a Lamborghini knockoff or poor man's
Ferrari.
> Next to align what is possible to what the market desires:
> My thoughts are around a small, light, sporty "second car" designed
as a commuter/grocery getter. Think Miata.
> - 2 door 2 seater
> - cute, not racy styling and not a replica - I don't think people
want their EV to look like a 50's sports car
> - soft top - low weight and sporty
Yeah, but wouldn't a Bugeye Sprite copy with lightweight body and
modern suspension be a kick?!
> - maintenance free batteries - IMO consumers hate the idea of
watering batteries and dealing with acid
Unless you are specifically marketing to experienced EV hobbyists or
industries that already use flooded cells (forklifts, airport tugs),
new EVs shouldn't be sold with flooded lead (and probably not flooded
NiCds either). That said, any SLAs should come with BMS standard.
> May want to start by selling kits which would avoid these issues and
get your cash flow started.
>
That's the answer in a nutshell: a whole car without controller, sell
that seperately, DVD with installation instructions and set it up with
Molexes and clearly labelled high-current cables so only the blind
can't figure out the last step to getting it running.
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>
> To reduce weight as well as complexity, can the transmission be
removed and
> the drive shaft connected directly to the motor?
>
Two words: White Zombie
two more: Dualin' 7
still two more: California Poppy
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> Sorry, forgot to ask.
>
> Is there a difference between a Series Motor, a Series Wound Motor,
and a
> Series Brushed Motor?
No, series is as series does - DC, brushes, low-resistance field.
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Roderick is right on. It has only been within the last ten years or so that
high performance EV's have been pursued. Internal combustion engines have
been researched for the past hundred years.
Those who are working with performance EV's are true pioneers that is
developing the technology for everyone else. So, you can stay with gas or you
can
join the EV pioneers and develop a serious, fast EV.
There is one problem, however, with waiting for the prices to come down. The
price of any product is determined by its sales volume. If everybody waits
for the price to come down - it never will. Example: I just placed a parts
order to build a power supply I am developing. The parts cost $770.00
(rounded)
to build one power supply. The same parts for two power supplies are $1100.00
(rounded). That's $550.00 each for two compared to $770.00 for one. If I
ordered enough for 3,000 power supplies the cost would be $220.00 each. Gas
automakers build cars by the millions. People will have to bear the cost of
EV's
that are made by the hundreds, or less, before the prices can compete with
the gassers. The Tesla is doing pretty well because it is in a class of
vehicles that are already built by the hundreds. Family sedan prices will be
much
harder to compete with. It will be a hard sell, but somebody’s got to do it!
Just my two milliamps worth,
Ken
In a message dated 10/3/2006 5:19:42 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ryan, I hate to disappoint you but fast and cheap does not yet exist in the
EV world. We are still in the 1950's in that department as most of the real
high performance products are not in large mass production like parts are
for a gas Mustang. For gas cars you can go to any speed shop or auto parts
store and get them off the shelf. The high performance EV controllers are
all hand built. The batteries us racers have been waiting for all our lives
finally exist for real but none of us can afford them yet. We will have to
wait for scale of production. Yes in the future you will be able to drop
into your local electric speed shop and pick up your one megawatt AC drive
and your ultra light motor and your nano tech lithiums for no more than the
parts for your gas car from the last century. We just ain't there yet.
Sorry.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: My EV doesn't make economical sense?
> As you know, I come from the 5.0 Mustang drag racing scene(~12 years).
> It's beyond easy to make them really, really fast(in the 1/4 mile!)
> and for not much money. But I started to have a conflict with turning
> solids into gasses(oil->co2+more). Actually, I think it might have
> been all the potential maintance issues that I started to look for an
> alternative way to go fast. I don't remember exactly what it was that
> led me to search out electric car possibilities.
>
> One of the first results the search engine turned up was Electro
> Automotive's site. I thought "wow, just need a 9" motor, Curtis,
> Russco, and 144 volts of bats and I'm all set." Didn't SEEM like all
> that much money in comparison to fuel stuff. I was all set. Until I
> searched more and more for some 1/4 mile numbers and what it took to
> go really fast(9's, 10's(even 11's at this point, 12's would even be
> decent until some better bats/caps come out, but I want some range
> too!)).
>
> So I'm adding up my recent numbers and it just doesn't seem to compute:
>
> PFC, Zilla, Motor(s), bats... ~$16,000+..... for how much
> speed(1/4mile) and range(cruising/commuting)?
>
>
> http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=69462.0 ....
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> if I'm going to go
> DC, I'll be wanting one of the models of Zilla controllers, I'll be
wanting
> to start right away. 6 months (or more) isn't right away. But you're
right,
> I could still be working on the car 6 months later.
If you have a starter Curtis, you can sell it later for close to
purchase price. Of course, you could just go with a 144V Curtis and
flooded 6V's, but then you might as well buy a VoltsPorsche kit, or if
you are handy, recreate everything listed and buy components from the
cheapest supplier.
> I don't even know if the Zilla is what I want anymore. I guess I can
a level
> of regen with a Zapi, but then I'm limited to 120v (Is that correct?)
Regen is nice, but coasting will get you a lot of range. AC does this
"for free" (as well as reverse), but for more $ per peak kw. Again,
the archives will give a lot of this info with pros and cons attached.
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Arrg,
How do folks create vacuum reservoirs that actually hold a vacuum?
I tried self tapping the PVC end cap with a brass fitting which did not
work, then I got a rubber stopper from home depot and fashioned a
grommet that another brass fitting is squeezed through. That is holding
a vacuum for about 1 minute then the pump switches back on.
It is all rather frustrating.
John
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This evening, I saw a TV commercial that got my attention.
The ad presented the services of a local law firm, and the announcement went
something like this:
"Have you been hurt by a product defect? Have you or your family experienced
pain and suffering because of the negligence of a callous and irresponsible
manufacturer?
Well, if you have, give us a call and tell us about it. If we think you have a
case, we'll sue the peewaddie out of those heartless bastards!"
Now, in the past, I wouldn't even have paid attention to such a pitch. Lately,
however, I've had EVs on the brain, and I've even been mulling over the idea of
selling converted vehicles to other people... maybe even for a profit.
Seeing the law firm's commercial put me in a different state of mind, however.
Suddenly, I had visions of a disgruntled customer who only got 40 miles out of
a charge instead of an anticipated 50. Or worse, a wreck-survivor who blamed
the accident on that "poorly-installed controller" in his EV.
You get the idea.
So here's what I wondered: Has anyone developed a sales contract that basically
says --
1. This is experimental technology.
2. If you buy my converted EV, you acknowledge that the vehicle may still have
kinks, even though every effort has been made to create a flawless installation.
Does that boilerplate exist anywhere?
My father used to say that "anyone with $25 in his pocket can file a lawsuit",
so I know that no contract can offer complete protection against a product
liability charge.
Nevertheless -- I'm still hoping that the right kind of written agreement would
make a litigious client think twice before he speed-dials his lawyer.
Your comments are welcome.
Steve Kobb
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Boost topology sounds quite impractical due to the inductor size
required (I could be wrong but I don't think the motor's inductance can
be used). A buck would be as easy (or hard) as the original controller.
You're wrong, well mostly anyway. The field coil inductance can be
used to create a boost converter.
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At 10:32 PM 10/2/2006, you wrote:
Answering all the questions.... <G>
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Well, yeah, that's a good answer.
Jack wrote -
> Shari, what is the most difficult and time consuming part of
> converting a car to electric?
I usually tell people it's the layout - where will I put this? Do I
have enough room here for that? If I move this there, then I have to
move that somewhere else. And so on.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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Threaded connections will not hold air or water
without some sort of thread sealer. I personally use
Permatex Formagasket number 2, but there are others
including a teflon tape. Also, is there some sort of
check valve between the pump and the tank? It could be
that the pump is leaking and bleeding the tank.
Hope this helps.
storm
--- John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Arrg,
>
> How do folks create vacuum reservoirs that actually
> hold a vacuum?
>
> I tried self tapping the PVC end cap with a brass
> fitting which did not
> work, then I got a rubber stopper from home depot
> and fashioned a
> grommet that another brass fitting is squeezed
> through. That is holding
> a vacuum for about 1 minute then the pump switches
> back on.
>
> It is all rather frustrating.
>
> John
>
>
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OK, so it looks like the largest they're offering at the moment are 180
Ah, but their spec sheets list up to 500 Ah...
These are pretty large NiMH cells aren't they? Just thought some here
might be interested.
Seen here:
http://www.nthaiyang.com/enthaiyang/intro.asp
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joint venture and a high and new-technology company in Jiangsu
Province. The company has solid technology strength with advanced
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batteries and chargers with various specifications and
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.These products are widely used in electric power,coal
mine,ships,railway,communication,instruments and meters,household
electrical appliances,etc.asdirect current power supply.
For years,the company is dedicated in research and development for
Ni-MH motive-power batteries.Its pioneering product"Naipu"Integral
Ni-MH Battery Pack,which is used in electric motor bike,has passed
tests in Quality Test Center of Chemical & Physical Power Supply
Product,Ministry of Information Industry,and Motive-power Battery
Performance Test Base lf Nation"863"Project.This product is noted for
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