EV Digest 5959
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with automatic
transmission?
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Our litigious society
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) VW on EVTrader
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: #21
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Vacuum Reservoir
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Stupid Question?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Vacuum Reservoir
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Our litigious society
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Build EV For Someone Else
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: NiMH 1.2V 500 Ah floodies
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Stupid Question?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: series wound motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: AW: series wound motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Zilla controls backordered?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Our litigious society
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with automatic
transmission?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Stupid Question?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Vacuum Reservoir
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: NiMH 1.2V 500 Ah floodies
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Big/unexpected voltage drop
by Chris & Patrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Toothless ZEV mandate, was Re: Build EV For Someone Else
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Stupid Question?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Stupid Question?
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Wandering Ranger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) RE: Big/unexpected voltage drop
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) ADC 8" inch rotation direction
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Sure you can. I'd suggest you do a little research on
how an automatic actually works before you attempt it.
After you do that, you'll probably come to the
conclusion that it isn't worth the effort.
--- Adan Vielma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm interested in converting a car to electric and
> would like to have a car that doesn't involve stick
> shifting while driving, so I was looking at either
> converting cars with automatic transmission or just
> "jamming" (aka keeping) the manual transmission in a
> gear (like 3rd) and using that all the time.
>
> SO, Is it actually feasible to convert a car with
> automatic transmission and keep it?
>
> I'd be interested in doing that as then we'd be able
> to use any car we'd like that may not have a manual
> version of itself.
>
> Thanks so much for your help with this!
> Sincerely,
> Adan Vielma
> Lewis & Clark College
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The usefulness of such wording varies state-by-state.
In Texas, you cannot sign away your right to sue. That means you can't
get a case thrown out simply because the plaintiff signed such a
document. It may still be admissable however, and maybe a jury would
find it interesting enough to decide for the defendant or at least
reduce the award.
Danny
So here's what I wondered: Has anyone developed a sales contract that basically
says --
1. This is experimental technology.
2. If you buy my converted EV, you acknowledge that the vehicle may still have
kinks, even though every effort has been made to create a flawless installation.
Does that boilerplate exist anywhere?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
One of our TEVA2 members put his VW up at EV Trader
He's trying to get some pics up...
Here is a tiny url http://tinyurl.com/kct5d
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dmitri & Death to All Spammers,
See page 6 of the following document:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/cleandoc/clean_2003_zev_tps.pdf#search=
%22%22california%20exhaust%20emission%20standards%20and%20test%22%2C2009%2C%
2210%25%22%22
I could not find the article on the new home construction in California. I
go to greencarcongress.com EVERYDAY, and that is where I have heard about
these 2 things.
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Build EV For Someone Else
> What??? Really?
>
>
> > BTW did you know that in 2009, California will require 10% of all new
> > vehicles sold to be zero emissions? They have also modified their
> > building
> > code this year. Every new home will have a charging station and for
> > commercial, a certain percentage of the parking spaces need to have
> > charging
> > stations.
> >
> > Curtis
> >
>
Yeah, Dmitri, I had the same reaction, and I live in CA! Curtis, it
would be better if you could supply us with a link for this legislation.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way to go Sharon , Do they all stay in your town or do you ship them around.
What are you using for controllers . ?
I'm on number 18 a Saturn , 1999 2 door and am finding it to be a VERY good
car to do , so far , looks like the 9 will just make it .
Steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon G Alexander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:46 PM
Subject: #21
Hi we just pulled EV #21 in the shop. will do a tear down, make battetry
boxes, 20 under the bed,4 whee the rad use to sit, change rear springs,
and repaint it, have to wait for the Warp 9, and controller. but by the
time there here at the shop, the truck should be on the road in 4 or 5
days. at least all the BS of converting will be done, just mate the motor
to the trans, and slap in all the wireing. Wayne, newton Ks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While I agree with storm's assessment that you need a
good thread sealer, (another plug for teflon from me),
I'd also ask if you're activating the brakes, or just
observing the operation with no brake activation
whatsoever.
Some switches are set to only allow a fluctuation
between 21 and 18 mm Hg, or roughly one actuation.
My Square D is set at 12 mm, and the Gast pulls
vac. down to 22 mm Hg. The point is that I had issues
with the first switch, and highly favor the
adjustability of the Square D.
peace,
--- Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Threaded connections will not hold air or water
> without some sort of thread sealer. I personally use
> Permatex Formagasket number 2, but there are others
> including a teflon tape. Also, is there some sort of
> check valve between the pump and the tank? It could
> be
> that the pump is leaking and bleeding the tank.
>
> Hope this helps.
> storm
>
> --- John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Arrg,
> >
> > How do folks create vacuum reservoirs that
> actually
> > hold a vacuum?
> >
> > I tried self tapping the PVC end cap with a brass
> > fitting which did not
> > work, then I got a rubber stopper from home depot
> > and fashioned a
> > grommet that another brass fitting is squeezed
> > through. That is holding
> > a vacuum for about 1 minute then the pump switches
> > back on.
> >
> > It is all rather frustrating.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Michael,
Here is some real data I just look up for my EV at each gear ratio:
Motor is a Warp 9 28 hp 192v @ 199A 6000 RPM
Differential is a ratio of 5.57:1
Gears overall ratio = Trans x Axle
Gear Ratio Speed Motor Amps Bat Amps
1st 19.495 10 75 15
20 80 35
30 85 65
2nd 13.925 10 95 20
20 100 40
30 110 70
40 120 105
3rd 5.57 10 185 25
20 195 45
30 205 75
40 225 115
50 245 175
60 270 260
Note: Motor ampere over 199 ampere, the EV may
have only a maximum run time of 60 minutes
to a 100% battery discharge or about 30
30 minutes at 50% DOD.
Lets see what happens if you lower the gear ratio:
Gear ratio Mph Motor amps Bat amps
4.56 10 215 25
20 225 45
30 240 75
40 260 95
50 280 180
60 310 260
You now have less than 30 min range at the maximum motor and battery
amperes at the higher speeds and the motor may go over its temperature
rating.
You can either decrease the motor/battery ampere by increasing the gear
ratios and/or used a larger motor to increase run time or decrease the
weight of the EV.
I also use a 11 inch motor which runs at 180 motor and battery amps that was
driven at a average of 46 mph for 24 hours with a 15 to 20 minutes stops for
charging every 60 minutes using a 5.57:1 gear.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Stupid Question?
> Just a theoretical and possibly stupid question:
>
>
>
> To reduce weight as well as complexity, can the transmission be removed
> and
> the drive shaft connected directly to the motor?
>
>
>
> Shifting isn't really necessary, right?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello John,
Vacuum reservoirs uses a push in check value, the same type that is used on
the brake booster. This check valve is in the line between the tank and to
the brake vacuum system.
Some vacuum pumps come with a built in check value, if not, than you have to
install another one between the vacuum pump and the reservoir.
If need to tap off the main vacuum line for other vacuum systems, you also
need to install check valves on these tap offs.
The maximum draw down on my braking is from 22 to 16 in.hg. I can let it
set 24 hours and still have vacuum.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:33 PM
Subject: Vacuum Reservoir
> Arrg,
>
> How do folks create vacuum reservoirs that actually hold a vacuum?
>
> I tried self tapping the PVC end cap with a brass fitting which did not
> work, then I got a rubber stopper from home depot and fashioned a
> grommet that another brass fitting is squeezed through. That is holding
> a vacuum for about 1 minute then the pump switches back on.
>
> It is all rather frustrating.
>
> John
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
You may need to select your clients carefully....
Serious though - I understand that anybody can sue
anybody, but that does not mean that they will get
any money awarded.
Else everyone with a wreck could be suing their
mechanic and there would be none willing to work
on cars.
Then there are many customer-car builders and such.
So - there apparently is a healthy dosis of common
sense in the 'litigation' trajectory that avoids
people with bad intentions to sue the living daylights
out of honest manufacturers.
You may need to establish a procedure how to hand over
an EV, so the client cannot say they did not know that
such-and-such was necessary (like charging/hurting the
pack) or the (in-) abilities of the EV.
After verifying the car is in a shape to safely go on
the road and instructing the customer, there is not
much more you can (or need to) do, IMHO, but IANAL.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Steve Kobb
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:17 PM
To: EVDL
Subject: Our litigious society
This evening, I saw a TV commercial that got my attention.
The ad presented the services of a local law firm, and the announcement went
something like this:
"Have you been hurt by a product defect? Have you or your family experienced
pain and suffering because of the negligence of a callous and irresponsible
manufacturer?
Well, if you have, give us a call and tell us about it. If we think you have
a case, we'll sue the peewaddie out of those heartless bastards!"
Now, in the past, I wouldn't even have paid attention to such a pitch.
Lately, however, I've had EVs on the brain, and I've even been mulling over
the idea of selling converted vehicles to other people... maybe even for a
profit.
Seeing the law firm's commercial put me in a different state of mind,
however.
Suddenly, I had visions of a disgruntled customer who only got 40 miles out
of a charge instead of an anticipated 50. Or worse, a wreck-survivor who
blamed the accident on that "poorly-installed controller" in his EV.
You get the idea.
So here's what I wondered: Has anyone developed a sales contract that
basically says --
1. This is experimental technology.
2. If you buy my converted EV, you acknowledge that the vehicle may still
have kinks, even though every effort has been made to create a flawless
installation.
Does that boilerplate exist anywhere?
My father used to say that "anyone with $25 in his pocket can file a
lawsuit", so I know that no contract can offer complete protection against a
product liability charge.
Nevertheless -- I'm still hoping that the right kind of written agreement
would make a litigious client think twice before he speed-dials his lawyer.
Your comments are welcome.
Steve Kobb
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Curtis,
On Oct 3, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
Dmitri & Death to All Spammers,
See page 6 of the following document:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/cleandoc/
clean_2003_zev_tps.pdf#search=
%22%22california%20exhaust%20emission%20standards%20and%20test%22%2C200
9%2C%
2210%25%22%22
I believe this is the infamous ZEV mandate, which produced the RAV4 EV
and the EV1. The program was gutted by CARB in 2003 in response to
pressure from the car companies, allowing them to produce PZEVs, or
"partial zero-emission vehicles", instead of ZEVs. (I've always
wondered which part of zero they're talking about.) The movie "Who
Killed The Electric Car" is about what happened afterwards. Here's a
timeline:
<http://evnut.com/dead_zev.htm>
IANAL, but your company probably needs the services of a lawyer to
investigate this further, as well as the public charging infrastructure
laws.
I could not find the article on the new home construction in
California. I
go to greencarcongress.com EVERYDAY, and that is where I have heard
about
these 2 things.
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Build EV For Someone Else
What??? Really?
BTW did you know that in 2009, California will require 10% of all new
vehicles sold to be zero emissions? They have also modified their
building
code this year. Every new home will have a charging station and for
commercial, a certain percentage of the parking spaces need to have
charging
stations.
Curtis
Yeah, Dmitri, I had the same reaction, and I live in CA! Curtis, it
would be better if you could supply us with a link for this
legislation.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Having 300 cycles makes this likely a very expensive experiment.
The power density seems to be rather low as well, there is no
clear indication of max discharge current, but it seams to be
less than 1/2C or 90A for the 180 Ah cell.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lock Hughes
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: NiMH 1.2V 500 Ah floodies
OK, so it looks like the largest they're offering at the moment are 180
Ah, but their spec sheets list up to 500 Ah...
These are pretty large NiMH cells aren't they? Just thought some here
might be interested.
Seen here:
http://www.nthaiyang.com/enthaiyang/intro.asp
Nantong Haiyang New Materials Technology Co.,Ltd. is a Chinese-foreign
joint venture and a high and new-technology company in Jiangsu
Province. The company has solid technology strength with advanced
product line,superior checkout equipment and good production
environment.The company is specialized in producing Ni-MH series
batteries and chargers with various specifications and
assortment,especially has great ability in research and development for
batteries with special types and standards.The products are noted for
their long time-span,large specific power,high mechanical strength, a
wide temperature range for operation,and stable discharge voltage
.These products are widely used in electric power,coal
mine,ships,railway,communication,instruments and meters,household
electrical appliances,etc.asdirect current power supply.
For years,the company is dedicated in research and development for
Ni-MH motive-power batteries.Its pioneering product"Naipu"Integral
Ni-MH Battery Pack,which is used in electric motor bike,has passed
tests in Quality Test Center of Chemical & Physical Power Supply
Product,Ministry of Information Industry,and Motive-power Battery
Performance Test Base lf Nation"863"Project.This product is noted for
its small volume,light weight,large capacity,strong motive power,long
life-span,elegant appearance and environmental protection,which is
favored by domestic and foreign consumers.
Constantly improving product quality and satisfying consumers' need
is our company's basic policy.Our company will strictly enforce
ISO9001standard to supply qualified products to our consumers.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 3, 2006, at 6:27 PM, Death to All Spammers wrote:
still two more: California Poppy
California Poppy kept the transmission. It has dual motors, though.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Randall Prentice
>
>> -----Original Message-----
Hofer Tobias asked:
>> I'm working on a electric car with a series wound motor and
>> Maxwell ultracapacitor as the primary energy storage element.
>> I need to regenerate energy during deceleration... it is not
>> clear how this will work with a series wound motor.
A series motor makes this an especially difficult problem. By nature, a
series generator's voltage varies a lot with rpm and load. The
capacitor's voltage varies a lot depending on state of charge. Whatever
sort of converter you use between the two will therefore have to deal
with a wide range of input voltages, *and* a wide range of output
voltages. That's a difficult beast!
Randall Prentice wrote:
There are ways to do this with series wound.
The most common is to separately excite the field winding (SEPEX) by
applying low voltage to it, then you can buck boost off the motor.
It's better not to do it this way. Most series motors have simple field
structures, with no interpoles or compensating windings. This means the
optimal brush timing changes dramatically with current. So, you get
excessive brush arcing if you run it as separately excited, with (say)
low field current but high armature current.
The more common method to get regen with a series motor is to keep the
field and armature wired in series -- this insures that the series field
is always as strong as the armature's field, to minimize arcing. The
motor will generate a voltage that varies considerably with rpm.
A boost converter is used to deal with this variation. Its input is the
highly variable voltage from the series generator. It steps this up to a
(relatively) constant output voltage, to charge the batteries.
If you want to charge a capacitor bank instead, you'd need to follow the
boost converter with a buck converter, to step the fixed voltage down to
whatever was needed at the moment to charge the capacitors.
Note: The more current you draw the more voltage you get up to serious
current.
Actually, a series generator has the opposite characteristics; max
current at *minimum* voltage.
Faviorite kill controller trick is to roll backwards until
controller diodes conduct in reverse then current increases until
you blow the diodes up (1/2 sec event).
This brings up another problem with the series generator -- it is
unstable. Like a bicycle, it requires active balancing to get a stable
output. Thus, some form of controller is required. It must constantly
sense the desired output voltage, and adjust the series generator's
current to regulate this voltage.
The "controller killer" event described above happens when a series
generator is allowed to operate *without* any control system. It runs
wild, trying to deliver "infinite" current. Just as a series motor tries
to draw "infinite" current at zero rpm; a series generator tries to
GENERATE "infinite" current at zero rpm. This uncontrolled current surge
murders the controller.
From what I have seen regen is nice but not the panacea that it
appears to be; you only get about 50% back from braking (80% motor
* 80% silicon [both ways] * 80% battery)...
That's about right. Each part loses 10-20% or so of your energy. The
energy has to pass through so many parts between driving and charging
that you're doing well to get 50% of it back.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
Boost topology sounds quite impractical due to the inductor size
required (I could be wrong but I don't think the motor's inductance can
be used).
They actually *do* use the field winding as the inductor for the boost
converter (same as they use it for the inductor of a buck converter).
A buck would be as easy (or hard) as the original controller.
Easy; but it can only step voltage down. The series generator usually
deliver too *low* of a voltage (and too high a current) to be useful.
One thing that came to mind is that rearranging batteries (as with a
contactor) into a lower voltage pack would alleviate the need for a
boost converter.
It would eliminate the need for a boost converter; but it would lead to
really huge currents!
Also, an even better solution was the previous idea of a controller
switching every battery in and out of a string, which would make the
bucking requirements quite reasonable.
Again, this is possible. But, you still have to deal with the intrinsic
instability of a series generator.
The only "training wheels" approach to automatically stabilize a series
generator is to have it drive a constant *current* load (i.e. one that
draws the same current regardless of voltage). Light bulbs are one
example of such a load. A series generator can drive a long string of
light bulbs in series, automatically keeping them at the desired
current. They did this long ago to drive street lights, so the
resistance of the miles of wire didn't affect lamp brightness.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Trefry wrote:
I like the idea of regen... So to get those, I need either an AC motor,
or a Series motor with a Zapi controller. (Or some other add-on
generator in any DC system)
Is there someone who has done this and type of configuration and detailed
the parts used, costs and final performance/range of the vehicle?
If all you want is mild driving and "engine braking" type regen, then a
DC Zapi or Sevcon (or Curtis 1221R if you can find one) controller will
do the trick. They are relatively low-power series motor controllers.
If you want a high-power "go-fast" controller for higher performance
accelleration and hill-climbing, then the DC motor controllers you can
get won't have regen. But, you can add a second generator and controller
and get regen that way.
Or of course, you can use an AC motor and controller. Most (maybe all)
of them include regen.
> Are there any specifics about the motor I should know?
If it's a plain old ADC, Prestolite, or Netgain series motor, it won't
have interpoles or other compensating windings. This means it will only
be able to provide low current "engine braking" type regen without
excessive brush arcing.
If it's a GE, Kostov, or old aircraft generator and has interpoles, then
you can get significant amounts of regen current out of it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Trefry wrote:
Is there a difference between a Series Motor, a Series Wound Motor,
and a Series Brushed Motor?
Not really; loosely speaking, they are all the same thing (a series
wound DC motor). Technically, you can have AC series motors, and
brushless series motors, and series motors without wound coils. But you
won't see any of these motors in sizes appropriate for an on-the-road EV.
Maybe if someone could provide a product link for me to look at for
a motor that will work with the Zapi?
Any series motor will work with the Zapi. But a motor with interpoles
will allow/survive higher regen currents.
If you want really large regen currents, use a surplus aircraft
generator. They can happily produce 500-1000 amps (enough to lock the
tires on dry pavement)!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Kobb"
Now, in the past, I wouldn't even have paid attention to such a pitch.
Lately, however, I've had EVs on the brain, and I've even been mulling
over the idea of selling converted vehicles to other people... maybe even
for a profit.
It's natural , when you find something good , you want to share it . It made
you happy , making others happy also makes one happy. Most of the people
who are interested in EV's are on a higher leaver to begin with . They are
willing to go out on a lime to do what they feel is the right thing to do
now. If you can put them in a EV that will do what they need it to do they
will be very appositive as you've given them a freedom they never new
before. When my cell phone goes off and I see the number of one of the
people who are driving one of my conversions , My first though is " Oh god
,,, " but 95% of the time , they're just calling to tell me about some EV
experience they just had , showing off the car , or driving further than
ever , some new trick they learned to get extra mileage. Then "Steve I can't
tell you how much I'm enjoying my EV,,,,,,, . What is that worth ?
Seeing the law firm's commercial put me in a different state of mind,
however.
Maybe some of the lawyers on the list could post a contract that would easy
your state of mine .
Suddenly, I had visions of a disgruntled customer who only got 40 miles
out of a charge instead of an anticipated 50. Or worse, a wreck-survivor
who blamed the accident on that "poorly-installed controller" in his EV.
Yep all stuff to worry about and do the best job you can for a reasonable
price , don't hide anything , there is somewhat of a standard set up now ,
fuse , emergency disconnect , main contactor , GFI .
Steve Clunn
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--- Begin Message ---
You can with a modified transmission. You do not have to use a torque
converter, unless you want to idle the motor. In place of the torque
converter, a drive shaft bolts to the motor coupler flange and drives the
transmission pump.
A manual body value is use that have external controls to release the pump
pressure with a clutch type pedal.
The transmission should be RPM control instead of Torque control type and
should increase the 1st and 2nd gear ratios to about 3.5:1 for 1st and 2.0:1
for 2nd. You will have to change the differential gear from the low 2's:1
to higher ratio in the 4's:1 or more.
You can select each gear like a manual and the transmission will stay in
that gear no matter what the rpm is at (no torque control unit) just like a
standard transmission.
The flexplate must be external balance which is a heavy duty racing type,
that can with stand higher torque which is heavier than the stock sheet
metal type. It is designed to create a higher inertia force for start up.
A high performance clutch plates, hubs, planetary sets, servos and pumps
should be used, because you are starting to provide load on these units a 1
rpm instead at the 500 idle rpm.
If you are replacing a existing transmission, these transmission can be made
to the same length to fit the existing space.
Then you have a array of shift controls to operated this unit.
These transmission are built up for racing. One company that does this is
TCI.com .
Thirty years ago, we tested out a standard transmission with a torque
converter and worn out the clutches in with 1000 miles. Today you can used
line locks systems, torque converter lock up units, torque converter
eliminator units, racing clutches and companies that specialize in these
units.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with
automatic transmission?
> Sure you can. I'd suggest you do a little research on
> how an automatic actually works before you attempt it.
>
> After you do that, you'll probably come to the
> conclusion that it isn't worth the effort.
>
> --- Adan Vielma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I'm interested in converting a car to electric and
> > would like to have a car that doesn't involve stick
> > shifting while driving, so I was looking at either
> > converting cars with automatic transmission or just
> > "jamming" (aka keeping) the manual transmission in a
> > gear (like 3rd) and using that all the time.
> >
> > SO, Is it actually feasible to convert a car with
> > automatic transmission and keep it?
> >
> > I'd be interested in doing that as then we'd be able
> > to use any car we'd like that may not have a manual
> > version of itself.
> >
> > Thanks so much for your help with this!
> > Sincerely,
> > Adan Vielma
> > Lewis & Clark College
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two words: White Zombie
two more: Dualin' 7
still two more: California Poppy
I'm pretty sure Capope (Otmar's 914) has its tranny. Use this link for
a reference:
http://www.evcl.com/914/index.html
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Vacuum Reservoir
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:13:35 -0600
Hello John,
Vacuum reservoirs uses a push in check value, the same type that is used on
the brake booster. This check valve is in the line between the tank and to
the brake vacuum system.
Some vacuum pumps come with a built in check value, if not, than you have
to
install another one between the vacuum pump and the reservoir.
If need to tap off the main vacuum line for other vacuum systems, you also
need to install check valves on these tap offs.
The maximum draw down on my braking is from 22 to 16 in.hg. I can let it
set 24 hours and still have vacuum.
Roland
I don't understand why a check valve is necessary if you use a vaccum
reservoir. Exactly where is the valve? ( between reservoir and brake servo?
between pump and reservoir?)
It seems to me you could just tie everything ( pump, reservoir, brake servo)
all together with tubing and it would work. Am I missing something?
Phil
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Having 300 cycles makes this likely a very expensive experiment.
> The power density seems to be rather low as well, there is no
> clear indication of max discharge current, but it seams to be
> less than 1/2C or 90A for the 180 Ah cell.
>
Not to mention the higher weight:
3kg per 100Ah cell = 30kg for a 12v/100Ah battery
vs
18.7kg for the 12v/95Ah Panasonic battery as used in the RAV4
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Today, our car surprised us with some extreme sagging very early.
At 11.2 miles of our 11.4 mile commute, as we were coming up to the top of
our final (moderate) incline, I noticed that we seemed to be running slower
than normal - and then that our emeter was reading only 60 volts (pulling
210 amps at 25-30 mph in 2nd gear). Fortunately, we had just reached the
crest of the hill and mostly were able to coast the rest of the way home.
Upon letting up on the accelerator, the voltage came up to about 119V. A
minute or two after stopping the voltage had crept up to 121-122V.
This trip was 11.4 miles, 27.8 amphours and 2836 watthours long, our regular
commute, with a couple short steep hills and the longer slighter grades
found here in Seattle. We started out this morning with a voltage of 132.9
The outside temperature was in the 50's today.
FWIW, not long ago we traveled about twice as far with less of a voltage
drop, and I'm not aware of any unusual events since then, although I'd been
wondering if the voltage sagging was getting worse lately.
This is a Geo Metro, converted to 120V, with ten 12V AGMs.
Is this as bad as it sounds to someone who still doesn't have a good grasp
of voltage sag?
Thanks for any advice/observations/thoughts, even if bad news.
- Patrick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hi Curtis,
>
> On Oct 3, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
>
> > Dmitri & Death to All Spammers,
> >
> > See page 6 of the following document:
> > http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/cleandoc/clean_2003_zev_tps.pdf
>
> I believe this is the infamous ZEV mandate, which produced the RAV4 EV
> and the EV1. The program was gutted by CARB in 2003 in response to
> pressure from the car companies, allowing them to produce PZEVs, or
> "partial zero-emission vehicles", instead of ZEVs. (I've always
> wondered which part of zero they're talking about.) The movie "Who
> Killed The Electric Car" is about what happened afterwards. Here's a
> timeline:
>
> <http://evnut.com/dead_zev.htm>
>
Yeah, that's what happened; this is why EV1s started getting crushed
soon after that - the auto companies got to use ULEV, SULEV and all
those other "equivalents" for credit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Trefry wrote:
> To reduce weight as well as complexity, can the transmission
> be removed and the drive shaft connected directly to the motor?
Yes. You will find that in most cases people who go direct drive end up
installing 2 motors instead of one in order to keep the performance at
an acceptable level. At the very least, they have to go for a more
powerful controller, but this is more like going for a Z1K instead of a
5050-A Cutris, so if you are already considering a Z1k it doesn't
necessarily mean you have to plan on a Z2K instead.
One thing to consider is that your 914 uses a transaxle, so if you
remove it there isn't any driveshaft to connect directly to your motor,
and there also isn't any differential to connect the motor to both rear
axles anymore. Eliminating the transmission is really only a practical
option for a RWD vehicle with a separate tranny and differential,
however, if you were really determined you could look at adapting an IRS
rear end from a Nissan 280Z, etc. to use in place of your Porsche's
transaxle.
Most people don't bother eliminating the tranny as it is generally
'free' (included in the donor vehicle), and provides the easiest means
of connecting the motor to the wheels. Although one may not 'need' to
shift [often] in an EV, using the most appropriate gear for the
conditions can result in more efficient operation (= longer range) than
a fixed gear system.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > still two more: California Poppy
>
> California Poppy kept the transmission. It has dual motors, though.
>
>
Thanks - forgot that part - does Ot shift it or lock it in one gear?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Recently, I have found my range dropping, and noticed the truck pulling to the
right on the freeway - not so dramatic at lower speeds, but still moves that
way if you let go. I suppose this is something more than toe-in; anyone have
links to how to fix this without paying for someone more mechanically minded to
do it? It's a 2000 Ford Ranger EV - these use a 4x4 frame, but since it doesn't
have FWD, it probably uses a 2WD's steering assembly.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris & Patrick wrote:
> At 11.2 miles of our 11.4 mile commute, as we were coming up
> to the top of our final (moderate) incline, I noticed that
> we seemed to be running slower than normal - and then that
> our emeter was reading only 60 volts (pulling 210 amps at
> 25-30 mph in 2nd gear).
60V on a 120V pack of AGMs is *really* bad!
I have a very similar car, with 120V of [old] Optima YTs; I can sag them
to perhaps 90V if I load them to my controller's limit of 450A near the
end of my commute, and I consider that pretty bad.
> The outside temperature was in the 50's today.
The cooler temperatures will make your pack voltage sag more under load
(and will reduce its capacity), but you might want to check your
traction wiring to ensure all the connections are tight, just in case.
You may have a battery on its way out, and will probably have to check
each battery's voltage under load to find it. I believe I've got a
battery out of line in my pack, but can't make a positive ID based on
resting voltage: 9 of the 10 batteries are within the range 13.07-13.17
and the outlier is 12.99v.
Good luck,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does an 8" ADC motor have advanced timing to rotate in a specific direction?
Is it easy to change it if it does?
I don't want to mount this motor in the wrong way and find out it needs
to go on the other side..
Jack
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