EV Digest 5965
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Better than a Xebra
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Driveoff with charge cord still plugged in
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: question to victor
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Andrew Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Power Designers May Soon Think Zinc
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Brake lights on regen
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Our litigious society
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Wandering Ranger
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: PFC-30 Question, Standard practice or sacrilege?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
15) Hawaii Electric Vehicles (was Why electric car companies should be
focused on this one ideal EV market: Hawaii)
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Better than a Xebra
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Our litigious society
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: supercapacitors / ultracapacitors
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Vacuum Reservoir
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: article: First energy-autonomous vehicle -for production
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The Smart Car specs stated 100 to 120 km range
(dependent on which webpage you look at) while
they have 6 batteries (I assume 6x12V = 72V or two
stings parallel = 36V) of 220Ah each, so total
energy is 6 x 12V x 220Ah = 15 kWh (in 20 hours!)
At 25 mph this car can probably do 100Wh/mi so
the claim of 100 miles is not impossible with
the same amount of batteries, though they indicate
48V so I agree with your statement that they will
probably need a double string of 4x 12V batteries.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Michael
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Better than a Xebra
Unless those batts are huge (as in a double pack) the specs are *way*
overrated, I'd think.
> Maybe I should have titled this "The Chinese are coming". Check out the
> specs and looks of this new three wheeler from China. They have a US
> distributor already and a showroom in Los Angeles.. It looks very
> interesting. Has anyone seen one in person yet or can someone in the area
> stop by and check it out?
> http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerSpecs.html
>
> Roderick Wilde
> EV Parts, Inc.
> www.evparts.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are so many ways to do it, that the general
statement does not make any sense.
Lee has indicated that he has driven away with the
cord plugged in several times and he is still using
the same cord, because he uses an outlet right in
front of his vehicle, so all that happens is that
the straight blades of the plug are pulled out of
the outlet and nothing gets damaged, only the cord
drags on the ground.
Another idea is to have a bright LED and/or buzzer
that will draw your attention when a cord is plugged
in and you try to move the car, the buzzer can go off
when you open the door while the cord is still plugged
as you are supposed to unplug before getting into the
vehicle.
Yet another idea is to disallow starting the car
when plugged in, though that does not work against
rolling away.
A variant could be to sound a buzzer and light a LED
when the parking brake is released while plugged in.
There is always a switch for signalling on the
parking brake.
Sometimes the whole issue does not exist, because
the plug is right next to the driver door and
the cord runs in front of the door, so you cannot
open the door without unplugging.
If you really want to go fancy, make a mechanism
that ejects the plug as soon as the vehicle starts
moving. Or have a charging contact that does not
need to "plug in".
If you have a garage, you may be able to pull the
plug as soon as the garage door opens, I don't know
but there are so many ways that you can solve this
that I would hesitate to make any general covering
statements, except that accidents do happen and
some people have driven away with cords attached
just like some have driven away with the gas tank
nozzle still in the filler opening.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Edward Ang
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
Kind of hard to make this setup and still look professional.
Impossible if you are using the standard AVCON.
May be there is a way to electrically lock the brake so that you could
not even roll the car. I think some racers do that to the front
wheels to burn rubber.
On 10/4/06, John G. Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 09:03 AM 10/4/2006, Edward Ang wrote:
> >Seriously guys, there is no way to prevent 100% unless you lock the
> >wheel when you are plugged in. In my case, one time, my wife forgot
> >to unplug our conversion and just released the hand brake. The car
> >rolled down the driveway and damage the inlet before she realized
> >that.
>
> Well, you could have your cord setup so that if the car rolls away,
> it unplugs itself.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about wiring in one of these fire truck auto-ejects?
http://www.kussmaul.com/091-18wp-120.html
Blue skies,
Patrick
>Edward Ang wrote:
> Seriously guys, there is no way to prevent 100% unless you lock the
> wheel when you are plugged in. In my case, one time, my wife forgot
> to unplug our conversion and just released the hand brake. The car
> rolled down the driveway and damage the inlet before she realized
> that.
>
> At some point, the driver has got to take the responsibility. For
> example, you do not turn off the car, don't pull the hand brake, don't
> turn the steering sharply etc. while you are on the freeway. While
> filling up at the gas station (ICE), you don't pump until the nozzle
> is in the tank inlet. You don't drive if the OIL light is on on the
> dash etc.
>
> On 10/3/06, Joe Smalley wrote:
>
>> I concur.
>>
>> Don't assume the cord is live.
>> Don't assume the charger is turned on.
>>
>> Use a switch on the door (or connector) to indicate 'a cord is attached'
>> rather than 'the charger is on.'
>>
>> Also make sure that if someone opens the cover or the switch fails,
>> the car
>> does not become disabled.
>>
>> Joe Smalley
>> Rural Kitsap County WA
>> Fiesta 48 volts
>> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robin,
Just replied to you off list.
Victor
Lawrie, Robin wrote:
Ive resent the mail...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
huh? the torque density of the warp 9 is 1.09 Nm/lb. the torque density of
the UQM motor is 2.9 Nm/lb (3.4 Nm/lb with the more powerful one). Thats
more than double! gotta get that price down though.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Yes, they are very nice motors. I must say that it cannot beat power or
torque density of that "old tech" twin Warp 9" and Zilla 2k combination for
1/3 the price. However, the UQM has nice features, such as liquid cooling,
regen, hold on hills, parking brake, etc. And it is shiny too.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Roberts
Sent: October 4, 2006 12:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major thing
about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or solectria or
siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically smaller.
I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to switch.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back was
planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to ask if
they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle two years
out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big torque and a wide
power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so, the price of the UQM
might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey compared to some of the
motors available today.
What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target price for
the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive according to my
conversations with them is about $28K with controller, and the batteries
must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit quantities. So, $44k just
in batteries and drive and it will be sold for $1k more as a complete
vehicle. If this can be delivered in a quality package in a year it will say
much to how fast things are moving. The UQM drives are made to order in
Colorado and I think the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just
have to forget my conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I
really don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Didn't GM use silver-zinc batteries something like 30 years ago in the
Electrovair? More recently, maybe 10 years ago, BAT used them
(surreptitiously) so they could crank out a news release about one of their
converted Metros doing a couple hundred miles on one charge.
IIRC, silver-zinc's weakness is short cycle life. Not to mention the
astronomical cost of the silver.
About 20 years ago, I used to know a fellow who had helped design electric
drives for navy target drones. He mentioned that they used silver-zinc
batteries. This in a machine intended to be blasted out of the water! Your
tax dollars at work. ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrew, my note was referring to the "twin" warp 9 with Zilla 2k run. At
full voltage gives max torque 1000 Nm at total weight of 144kg = 3.47Nm/kg
UQM PP 120 with controller is 115kg with max torque 650Nm = 2.17Nm/kg
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Roberts
Sent: October 4, 2006 2:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
huh? the torque density of the warp 9 is 1.09 Nm/lb. the torque density of
the UQM motor is 2.9 Nm/lb (3.4 Nm/lb with the more powerful one). Thats
more than double! gotta get that price down though.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Yes, they are very nice motors. I must say that it cannot beat power or
torque density of that "old tech" twin Warp 9" and Zilla 2k combination for
1/3 the price. However, the UQM has nice features, such as liquid cooling,
regen, hold on hills, parking brake, etc. And it is shiny too.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andrew Roberts
Sent: October 4, 2006 12:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major thing
about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or solectria or
siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically smaller.
I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to switch.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back was
planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to ask if
they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle two years
out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big torque and a wide
power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so, the price of the UQM
might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey compared to some of the
motors available today.
What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target price for
the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive according to my
conversations with them is about $28K with controller, and the batteries
must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit quantities. So, $44k just
in batteries and drive and it will be sold for $1k more as a complete
vehicle. If this can be delivered in a quality package in a year it will say
much to how fast things are moving. The UQM drives are made to order in
Colorado and I think the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just
have to forget my conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I
really don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I fear that most are not sensitive enough to trigger at
the deceleration of a truck. Or they are sensitive and
trigger at every bump in the road...
The easiest is really when the controller tells when it
is seeing a certain amount of regen, which implicitly is
a braking action, so a relay can activate the brake lights.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Brake lights on regen
You could use an inertial switch that would activate
when decelleration takes place.
storm
--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One of the projects that US Electricar didn't finish
> was having the
> brake lights come on during regen. Regen on my truck
> is set to max and
> it stops very quickly without the use of the brake
> pedal. So I'm
> wondering if there is a circuit to be had that will
> allow them to be
> activated on regen. The S10 that I have uses a relay
> to drive the tail
> lights. So that part is done.
>
> Mike
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Davidson wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
Having said that, I would suggest forming a corporation, which would
then build and sell the EVs. Have a lawyer draw up the incorporation
papers to make sure you're well protected. The corporation could lease
space, equipment, etc. from another corporation or even from you. If
somone sues, only the assets of the corporation can normally be at
risk. If the corporation has no assets, there is nothing to lose.
Yes, I can see you're not a lawyer :-)
The statement above is incorrect: if you form the corporation
it only have legal status of corporation (with all its protection)
if it has minimum set of assets worth I think $50k (at least in Oregon)
others *must be able to* sue for if they choose to. You *cannot*
have legal protection of the corp status without allowing others to
take advantage of responsibilities a corp must have. Now, you don't
need actual $50k of assets, you must at least have $50k insurance
coverage someone *has to be able to win* if they sue and you loose.
This insurance is $600-$700 /year.
If you have no assent and no insurance, you don't have
corporation in the eyes of a law - you're *personally* liable
and CAN loose your own assets if loose in court, despite filed
status of corporation. If you want to take advantage of corp protection,
you *must* provide opportunity for others to take advantage of
that corporation (or from you - your choice) as well.
It's 2-way street.
That's what my lawyer told me when incorporating so we took care of this
with appropriate arrangements.
Even having your own [paper] company but not being employed by it
and subcontracting with it still does not always protect you personally
- people must be able to sue for something real - yours or company's
or insurance's.
Bottom line: one condition allowing you to take advantage of
the system (corp. status) is the system can take advantage of you
(or your insurance). If it can't, you can't either.
Don't make mistake about it.
Situation in your state may be different.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sometimes the whole issue does not exist, because
the plug is right next to the driver door and
the cord runs in front of the door, so you cannot
open the door without unplugging.
This is the route I decided to take. Although I've seen a lot of clever plug
placements - in the old gas filler area is popular - on my Courier, I installed
the charger on top of the bed cover right behind the driver's door. In the
garage, the charging cord is suspended from the ceiling (OK, a bike hanging
from the ceiling) and dangles right in front of the driver's door. Makes it
really hard to forget to plug it in when you return and unplug it when you
leave. I'm leery of mechanical/electronic devices designed to prevent this
from happening. They fail. I'm going the same route with my Tropica. I'm
going to try to make it look slicker than the Courier's was (shouldn't be hard;
the bar was set low) but still have the charg cord and charger controls right
behind the driver's door, up as high as possible.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > > If that isn't it, have you struck a curb, etc. recently? The
front end
> > > may be out of alignment. It is probably worth taking the truck
in to a
> > > shop to have the alignment checked/set if you suspect it to be
out. A
> > > front-end alignment shouldn't be an expensive proposition.
Just got the truck back: R/L toe was -0.12°/-0.25° (both "in the
red"); now it's -0.01°/0.07°, with a "total toe" of 0.06°.
The only other thing changed was caster: R went from 3.9° to 4.8°,
while L was about the same (4.3° before/4.2° after), for a cross
caster of -0.6° (there's also a cross camber of -0.1°).
You guys always talk about inches of toe-in, so I don't know how this
compares, but the shop said this would explain the behavior. They also
asked about the totally covered wheels and blocked-off grill, but they
did know beforehand this was an EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrew,
How do UQM motors compare to MES' power density wise?
Both do not have much metal around and rely on the
liquid cooling only - unlike Siemens no thermal mass
allowing extended run time before overheating.
Half weight is good and I'm trying to find what exactly is
compromised to achieve it - there must be something.
Else Siemens wouldn't need to make same power motors twice
as heavy.
I bet UQM (as well as MES) motors are much noisier than Siemens,
precisely because not much metal [sound shielding] around.
What else? (question to the engineer, not to marketing dept).
Victor
Andrew Roberts wrote:
The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major thing
about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or solectria or
siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically smaller.
I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to switch.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back was
planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to ask if
they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle two years
out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big torque and a wide
power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so, the price of the UQM
might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey compared to some of the
motors available today.
What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target price for
the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive according to my
conversations with them is about $28K with controller, and the batteries
must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit quantities. So, $44k just
in batteries and drive and it will be sold for $1k more as a complete
vehicle. If this can be delivered in a quality package in a year it will say
much to how fast things are moving. The UQM drives are made to order in
Colorado and I think the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just
have to forget my conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I
really don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In OEM it is done that way: interlock prevents turning on
the controller if the fuel door is open (whether cord is
energized or even present or not), but if the controller
is already on, the fuel door switch status is ignored.
This prevents disabling moving vehicle should the door
latch come loose on a freeway. At the same time it prevents
turning on controller (so obviously vehicle is not in motion)
while the door is not shut.
Victor
Dave Cover wrote:
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Use a switch on the door (or connector) to indicate 'a cord is attached'
rather than 'the charger is on.'
Also make sure that if someone opens the cover or the switch fails, the car
does not become disabled.
If the switch prevents startup when the door is open, how does it not shut down
the controller if
it opens driving down the road? I'm asking this from the perspective of a Zilla
controller with
the door switch inline with the on/off switch. I would have guessed that the
door switch opening
is like turning off the ignition switch. Do you incoporate a relay somehow that
only gets
energized if the door is closed, but is self powering after that, not powered
through the switch?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave:
Pretty much the same with me.
Hooked the DC and AC leads from the charger into an nice box, terminated on a
strip and mounted an AC an DC amp meter in it. I also mounted a little
universal input switch mode converter - whatever AC to 12 volts DC - to power
the vent fans and an interlock relay. This way I can hook up into 120 or 240
and I get 12 VDC out. Makes it more flexible.
It's nice to have the AC amp meter. I also have a digital voltmeter in there,
but it gets confused when the charger is working hard.
The amp meters are nice to have - you can watch the PFC-30 do its thing.
After reading many posts here on the list, I mounted the receptical in the
front of the car. That works really nice for me. I always imangined that I
would mount it in the gas filler opening. It would have never have occurred to
me to consider another location.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hello Dave,
>
> I just cut off the AC plug and connect the ends to a power block (is a large
> terminal strip). From this strip I ran the same size cord to a water tight
> very tough nylon Daniel Woodhead female twist lock connector from a
> electrical supply house. While I was there, I pick up a new plug that I
> could put on if I need to pull the charger for testing or maintenance.
>
> I place this in a cast aluminum housing with a gasket spring hinge cover.
> This housing hinge cover is also attach the back of the gas door, so when
> you open the gas door, the connector housing covers opens too.
>
> Then I use a water tight Daniel Woodhead male twist lock plug that overlaps
> the receptacle by about 1 inch to make it more water tight.
>
> The cord end goes straight in through a large taper rubber cord seals and
> and the wire ends are set screw to large box type connectors.
>
> This connector is so tough, and forgot to unplug the cord, the strand wires
> will pull right out of the box lugs with no damage to the plug or
> receptacle.
>
> Did this many times, before I stall a micro switch with a long 2 inch throw
> which is mounted inside this aluminum housing. This activates a relay which
> controls the 12 VDC ignition control.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 1:59 PM
> Subject: PFC-30 Question, Standard practice or sacrilege?
>
>
> > I have a question about how people install PFCs in their car. Mine came
> > with a nice big plug on
> > the power cord, but I was thinking of hard wiring it into the car. I
> > bought the parts to basically
> > put an outlet inside my car, so the charger would plug in to the car and
> > the car would plug in to
> > the wall outlet. Has anyone wired their charger directly to the car? Did
> > you just cut the plug
> > off? I plan on using the Anderson connector to hook it to the batteries
> > and I like the idea of
> > being able to quickly disconnect the charger and pull it from the car.
> > This also let's me charge
> > other packs if I need to. But I also like the idea of making a nice clean
> > installation with
> > minimal connections.
> >
> > Sometimes the simple things hang you up the most.
> >
> > Dave Cover
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought that EVs were being developed and operated in Hawaii. There was
considerable discussion on this list a few years ago about efforts by the
University of Hawaii and the electric utility on Oahu to develop and promote
the use of EVs in Hawaii. There doesn't appear to be any compelling reasons
why EVs wouldn't do well there.
Several on this list are probably involved with EVs in Hawaii. Let's hear
from them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Why electric car companies should be focused on this one ideal
EV market: Hawaii
Sebastian,
Your observations regarding Hawaii and its potential as an EV test ground
is spot on. There is no reason why Hawaii should not be a leader in EV
technology for the reasons you mentioned. In fact we should be innovators
in all areas of alternate and renewable energy development. We have such
an
abundance of energy in the form of solar, wind, geothermal, wave, biomass
(sugar cane), etc. that we have no excuse not to be more self sufficient
in
this regard. If anything, we in Hawaii should be exporting energy.
I teach math and science at a high school in Maui. I, along with another
teacher, offer an engineering elective where our goal is to expose
students
to the field of engineering. We started out building Electrathon cars and
competing in a statewide competition. The local utility sponsored the
event
over the past 10 years and just recently dropped the program. As a result
we've revamped the course and this year we will be doing an EV conversion.
In addition to covering engineering concepts we hope to educate our
students
on the issues surrounding peak oil, global warming, sustainability, etc.
We
also plan on building a solar garage that will charge the vehicle during
the
day. Our ultimate goal is to demonstrate that EV's are a practical and
viable solution to our local transportation needs. When complete we hope
to
get the car out in the community to raise awareness.
A large portion of the cars driving our roads are operated by tourists.
It
would seem that by having such a large rental fleet, we could introduce
the
EV to our rental fleet and require that the hotels add charging stations
to
their parking structures. As you mentioned, a 50 to 60 mile range would
be
more than adequate to satisfy most tourist transportation needs.
Something
to this effect was attempted a few years back. A company in Lahaina (West
Maui) rented a fleet of GEM's. It was more a novelty as the tourists who
rented these already had a normal rental car. As such the GEM's are
currently deteriorating in the sun and salt spray at a junk yard.
Your point on Hawaii citizens being environmentally conscience is
generally
true, however if you look at the resistance the developers experienced in
constructing the recently completed wind farm (Maui's first) it's clear
that
not everyone sees the bigger picture. Many people (both locals and
tourists) complained of the unsightliness of the structures. Many of these
same people don't realize that our power plants have at most a 30 day
supply
of oil to keep the electricity flowing. It won't take long after the
boats
stop coming in that Hawaii is screwed (we have no more than 1 weeks worth
of
food and other essential supplies).
So the bottom line is I agree with you completely. Hawaii could and
should
be completely self sufficient when it comes to energy (power generation
and
transportation). In terms of the EV, I think that if one existed at a
price
comparable to an ICE car (not a Tesla) with a reasonable range (for Island
commuting) we could get something going here. Does this car exist in the
US
market? The idea of then charging the EV using sun or wind power is even
more appealing. Maybe I should quit my teaching job and start importing
EV's :) .
Martin Emde
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are brushless permanent magnet motors lighter by design?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: October 4, 2006 3:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Andrew,
How do UQM motors compare to MES' power density wise?
Both do not have much metal around and rely on the liquid cooling only -
unlike Siemens no thermal mass allowing extended run time before
overheating.
Half weight is good and I'm trying to find what exactly is compromised to
achieve it - there must be something.
Else Siemens wouldn't need to make same power motors twice as heavy.
I bet UQM (as well as MES) motors are much noisier than Siemens, precisely
because not much metal [sound shielding] around.
What else? (question to the engineer, not to marketing dept).
Victor
Andrew Roberts wrote:
> The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major
> thing about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or
> solectria or
> siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically
smaller.
> I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to
switch.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Don Cameron
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>
>
> Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back was
> planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to ask
> if they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle
> two years out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big
> torque and a wide power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so,
> the price of the UQM might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey
> compared to some of the motors available today.
>
> What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
> Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>
> I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
> price for the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive
> according to my conversations with them is about $28K with controller,
> and the batteries must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit
> quantities. So, $44k just in batteries and drive and it will be sold
> for $1k more as a complete vehicle. If this can be delivered in a
> quality package in a year it will say much to how fast things are
> moving. The UQM drives are made to order in Colorado and I think the
> SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just have to forget my
> conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I really don't want
an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
>
> Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
25mph. No stopping. Level ground. Tailwind. It's possible. It has around
500 pounds of batteries. That's 1/3 the weight of the total vehicle. I'd
say that was realistic. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: Better than a Xebra
> Unless those batts are huge (as in a double pack) the specs are *way*
> overrated, I'd think.
>
> > Maybe I should have titled this "The Chinese are coming". Check out the
> > specs and looks of this new three wheeler from China. They have a US
> > distributor already and a showroom in Los Angeles.. It looks very
> > interesting. Has anyone seen one in person yet or can someone in the
area
> > stop by and check it out?
> > http://www.keystonecarts.com/KeystoneFlyerSpecs.html
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> > EV Parts, Inc.
> > www.evparts.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Well, you could have your cord setup so that if the car
> rolls away [in either direction], it unplugs itself. :-)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
This is my insert...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Davidson wrote:
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
Having said that, I would suggest forming a corporation, which would
then build and sell the EVs. Have a lawyer draw up the incorporation
papers to make sure you're well protected. The corporation could lease
space, equipment, etc. from another corporation or even from you. If
somone sues, only the assets of the corporation can normally be at
risk. If the corporation has no assets, there is nothing to lose.
Yes, I can see you're not a lawyer :-)
The statement above is incorrect: if you form the corporation
it only have legal status of corporation (with all its protection)
if it has minimum set of assets worth I think $50k (at least in Oregon)
others *must be able to* sue for if they choose to. You *cannot*
have legal protection of the corp status without allowing others to
take advantage of responsibilities a corp must have. Now, you don't
need actual $50k of assets, you must at least have $50k insurance
coverage someone *has to be able to win* if they sue and you loose.
This insurance is $600-$700 /year.
If you have no assent and no insurance, you don't have
corporation in the eyes of a law - you're *personally* liable
and CAN loose your own assets if loose in court, despite filed
status of corporation. If you want to take advantage of corp protection,
you *must* provide opportunity for others to take advantage of
that corporation (or from you - your choice) as well.
It's 2-way street.
That's what my lawyer told me when incorporating. Even having my own
[paper] company but not being employed by it and subcontracting with it
still does not protect you personally - people must be able to sue
for something real - yours or company's or insurance's.
Don't make mistake about it.
Situation in your state may be different.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff & Mike,
http://www.et.byu.edu/groups/mfgweb/mfg/faculty/Perry_Carter/
Curtis Muhlestein
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Major
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: supercapacitors / ultracapacitors
This would be the BYU drag race car, EVOne, runs on ultracapacitors, no
batteries. Yea, I know some about it. Worked on the controller for them.
Have never seen it race. Drove it around the parking lot once. Research
continue? Unsure what you mean. BYU may continue to race. I doubt they
intend to develop a roadworthy version. Cannot store enough energy in caps.
Research other places with ultracaps continues. Maxwell website will give
examples.
Jeff
Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
anyone no anything more about this car, or others like? does the
research continue?
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/display.asp?dismode=article&artid=250
you'd think some of those students or faculty would be on this list :)
mike
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben,
I noticed the JEGS part 555-63010
which is their own brand black canister
5" x 7" complete with check valve for $32.
It looks like that is the same size as your
canister, also with check valve included.
Any reason to select that part iso the JEGS?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:25 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Vacuum Reservoir
John,
I priced it out.
I was going to spend $50 on sch 80 PVC and fittings, so instead I'm just
gonna buy the premade tank from
www.jegs.com
or www.summitracing.com
Comp Cams 5200 vacuum reservoir.
The steel tank is cheaper but heavier.
so I'll spend $56
Good luck, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This car is an interesting design, even with modern materials, it looks sort of
retro,
like from almost a hundred years ago.
Cars sell because they look 'typical'. A bank will lend for a car as it looks
like it
like
it can be resold. Insurance rates for 'typical' cars are calculated as
insurance risks
are (partly) known.
The design is so un-car-like, and foreign, compared to typical cars that it
might be
hard to sell or insure.
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wujek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: article: The first energy-autonomous vehicle
> Venturi also comes at us again with something very strange looking,
> but scheduled for production at an affordable price:
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/6240/
>
> --
> Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well...
Brushless motors don't have brushes, this means they also don't have
comutators. This automatically makes them lighter by that much at least.
Depending on how much power you run through the field, NIB magnets can be
lighter than wound fields with iron cores.
I think the big advantage is that brushless motors are easier to build for
high RPMs. How much torque a motor produces has an effect on how much it
weighs. If you can produce the same power at twice the RPM, then you only
need 1/2 the torque and this makes the motor lighter.
> Are brushless permanent magnet motors lighter by design?
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: October 4, 2006 3:20 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>
> Andrew,
>
> How do UQM motors compare to MES' power density wise?
>
> Both do not have much metal around and rely on the liquid cooling only -
> unlike Siemens no thermal mass allowing extended run time before
> overheating.
>
> Half weight is good and I'm trying to find what exactly is compromised to
> achieve it - there must be something.
> Else Siemens wouldn't need to make same power motors twice as heavy.
>
> I bet UQM (as well as MES) motors are much noisier than Siemens, precisely
> because not much metal [sound shielding] around.
>
> What else? (question to the engineer, not to marketing dept).
>
> Victor
>
>
> Andrew Roberts wrote:
>> The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major
>> thing about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or
>> solectria or
>> siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically
> smaller.
>> I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to
> switch.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Behalf Of Don Cameron
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>>
>>
>> Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back was
>> planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to ask
>> if they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle
>> two years out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big
>> torque and a wide power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so,
>> the price of the UQM might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey
>> compared to some of the motors available today.
>>
>> What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
>>
>>
>>
>> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>>
>> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
>> Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>>
>> I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
>> price for the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive
>> according to my conversations with them is about $28K with controller,
>> and the batteries must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit
>> quantities. So, $44k just in batteries and drive and it will be sold
>> for $1k more as a complete vehicle. If this can be delivered in a
>> quality package in a year it will say much to how fast things are
>> moving. The UQM drives are made to order in Colorado and I think the
>> SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just have to forget my
>> conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I really don't
>> want
> an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
