EV Digest 5966
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Our litigious society
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: article: First energy-autonomous vehicle -for production
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Our litigious society
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV digest 5961
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Power Designers May Soon Think Zinc
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) motor
by "Jim Sylvester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Electric Bikes Now Legal in Ontario
by Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: supercapacitors
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: interpoles
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV digest 5961
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: motor
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered? - range or speed
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: New motor winding for eff info needed? Freedom EV update
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Brake lights on regen
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: series wound motor
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor brings up a good point: laws are different from state to state. I like
this law - it enforces responsibility. California doesn't have a law exactly
like this, but the general principle does apply in many places: if your
corporation is just "on paper" the courts may ignore it and find you personally
responsible anyway.
But like I said: Do your best, be honest, take responsibility, and things
usually will work out OK. Try to figure out a scam or a "Get out of jail free"
gimmick and, well, you may have problems somewhere down the road.
Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Dave Davidson wrote:
> Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
>
> Having said that, I would suggest forming a corporation, which would
> then build and sell the EVs. Have a lawyer draw up the incorporation
> papers to make sure you're well protected. The corporation could lease
> space, equipment, etc. from another corporation or even from you. If
> somone sues, only the assets of the corporation can normally be at
> risk. If the corporation has no assets, there is nothing to lose.
Yes, I can see you're not a lawyer :-)
The statement above is incorrect: if you form the corporation
it only have legal status of corporation (with all its protection)
if it has minimum set of assets worth I think $50k (at least in Oregon)
others *must be able to* sue for if they choose to. You *cannot*
have legal protection of the corp status without allowing others to
take advantage of responsibilities a corp must have. Now, you don't
need actual $50k of assets, you must at least have $50k insurance
coverage someone *has to be able to win* if they sue and you loose.
This insurance is $600-$700 /year.
If you have no assent and no insurance, you don't have
corporation in the eyes of a law - you're *personally* liable
and CAN loose your own assets if loose in court, despite filed
status of corporation. If you want to take advantage of corp protection,
you *must* provide opportunity for others to take advantage of
that corporation (or from you - your choice) as well.
It's 2-way street.
That's what my lawyer told me when incorporating so we took care of this
with appropriate arrangements.
Even having your own [paper] company but not being employed by it
and subcontracting with it still does not always protect you personally
- people must be able to sue for something real - yours or company's
or insurance's.
Bottom line: one condition allowing you to take advantage of
the system (corp. status) is the system can take advantage of you
(or your insurance). If it can't, you can't either.
Don't make mistake about it.
Situation in your state may be different.
Victor
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is this site as well:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/10/venturi_introdu.html#more
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: article: First energy-autonomous vehicle -for production
This car is an interesting design, even with modern materials, it looks sort
of retro,
like from almost a hundred years ago.
Cars sell because they look 'typical'. A bank will lend for a car as it
looks like it
like
it can be resold. Insurance rates for 'typical' cars are calculated as
insurance risks
are (partly) known.
The design is so un-car-like, and foreign, compared to typical cars that it
might be
hard to sell or insure.
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wujek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: article: The first energy-autonomous vehicle
> Venturi also comes at us again with something very strange looking,
> but scheduled for production at an affordable price:
>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/6240/
>
> --
> Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You need to incorporate in Nevada or Delaware. Best corporation laws in the
U.S. You can then have your corp. registered as a "foreign" corporation in
your state to do business there and still have superior protection.
Blue skies,
Patrick
>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 15:05:10 -0700
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Our litigious society
Dave Davidson wrote:
> Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
>
> Having said that, I would suggest forming a corporation, which would
> then build and sell the EVs. Have a lawyer draw up the incorporation
> papers to make sure you're well protected. The corporation could lease
> space, equipment, etc. from another corporation or even from you. If
> somone sues, only the assets of the corporation can normally be at
> risk. If the corporation has no assets, there is nothing to lose.
Yes, I can see you're not a lawyer :-)
The statement above is incorrect: if you form the corporation
it only have legal status of corporation (with all its protection)
if it has minimum set of assets worth I think $50k (at least in Oregon)
others *must be able to* sue for if they choose to. You *cannot*
have legal protection of the corp status without allowing others to
take advantage of responsibilities a corp must have. Now, you don't
need actual $50k of assets, you must at least have $50k insurance
coverage someone *has to be able to win* if they sue and you loose.
This insurance is $600-$700 /year.
If you have no assent and no insurance, you don't have
corporation in the eyes of a law - you're *personally* liable
and CAN loose your own assets if loose in court, despite filed
status of corporation. If you want to take advantage of corp protection,
you *must* provide opportunity for others to take advantage of
that corporation (or from you - your choice) as well.
It's 2-way street.
That's what my lawyer told me when incorporating so we took care of this
with appropriate arrangements.
Even having your own [paper] company but not being employed by it
and subcontracting with it still does not always protect you personally
- people must be able to sue for something real - yours or company's
or insurance's.
Bottom line: one condition allowing you to take advantage of
the system (corp. status) is the system can take advantage of you
(or your insurance). If it can't, you can't either.
Don't make mistake about it.
Situation in your state may be different.
Victor
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter wrote:
If you can produce the same power at twice the RPM, then you only
need 1/2 the torque
Huh...? Don't give me half. Give me full then give me more!!! :)
It would be good marketing to build the most wicked motors(and
inverters) the world has ever seen. It would make the news and get
people's attention. Build stuff that NASCAR and F1 people start to
notice and want... Build a prototype, proof of concept motor/inverter
and install a load of Hawkers and put this into a Corvette or any
other car of choice and first, get in the 100mph club. Then get the
0-60mph time respectable so that it is the fastest. Then you will
have an extremely impressive and functional marketing tool that says
"look at what we can build and look at what it can do. Notice how
well it performs..." Make the OEM auto manufacturers take notice.
Build two more sets and convert current vehicles from the Big 3 for
rolling proof of concepts. They'd say "Well you converted these so
nicely, we'd like to do a production run and start offering a model of
all of our vehicles that are electric with your motor/inverter/battery
setup". A Vette, Mustang, and a ?
http://www.nedra.com/hedlund_100mph_club.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Usable energy from ultra-caps may be 5 Wh/kg, but ones you can buy
from ISE corporation are about 3.25 Wh/kg packaged. Dimensions are
24" x 40" x 12". Now in a year or two these specifications on
deliverable product may improve by a factor of two, so design your
vehicle around those specs and see if it makes any sense to proceed
with this route.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sandman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: supercapacitors
next, i plan to learn about how to determine *usable* energy in
these things. meaning, if i drop in X pounds of lead, i go a
certain distance--yes, yes, many other variables. so if i drop in
X pounds of capacitors, how far do i go...assuming all-things-
being-equal as much as possible. also, what is likely to be the
result of comparing *usable* energy per unit mass or volume to
that of different battery chemistries? or, to get a usable range
from capacitors what is likely to be the most limiting physical
factor: volume or weight? with my conversion using lead, it is
definitely weight.
Good Luck
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire—bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, I was asking about UQM induction motors, not PM synchronous.
Of course we want apples to apples comparison.
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
Are brushless permanent magnet motors lighter by design?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: October 4, 2006 3:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Andrew,
How do UQM motors compare to MES' power density wise?
Both do not have much metal around and rely on the liquid cooling only -
unlike Siemens no thermal mass allowing extended run time before
overheating.
Half weight is good and I'm trying to find what exactly is compromised to
achieve it - there must be something.
Else Siemens wouldn't need to make same power motors twice as heavy.
I bet UQM (as well as MES) motors are much noisier than Siemens, precisely
because not much metal [sound shielding] around.
What else? (question to the engineer, not to marketing dept).
Victor
Andrew Roberts wrote:
The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major
thing about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or
solectria or
siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically
smaller.
I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to
switch.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back was
planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to ask
if they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle
two years out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big
torque and a wide power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so,
the price of the UQM might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey
compared to some of the motors available today.
What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
price for the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive
according to my conversations with them is about $28K with controller,
and the batteries must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit
quantities. So, $44k just in batteries and drive and it will be sold
for $1k more as a complete vehicle. If this can be delivered in a
quality package in a year it will say much to how fast things are
moving. The UQM drives are made to order in Colorado and I think the
SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I may just have to forget my
conversion and buy something new in a year or two, but I really don't want
an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David wrote:
Didn't GM use silver-zinc batteries something like 30 years ago in the
Electrovair?
Impressive voltage, range, and decent top speed. Even used an AC
motor. All back in 1966! Specs on what controlled the motor would be
interesting. Shame about the 0-60 speed though.. must have been an
inverter limitation(or batteries or tires(trans?)).? Now why can't we
get or build whatever it was they used for that AC motor back in '66?
Did it use tubes?
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/monzapr7.html
http://www.cardatabase.net/search/search.php?model=Electrovair%20II
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They say you can buy their product at http://www.kta-ev.com BUT! KTA makes
no mention of this product in their catalog....
Rich Va
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:08 PM
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
> yeah, just buy 100 of them. LOL.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:33 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>
>
> does anyone know a way to source one at a reasonable price? Seems
> like a great solution.
> On Oct 4, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Andrew Roberts wrote:
>
> > The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major
> > thing
> > about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or
> > solectria or
> > siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically
> > smaller.
> > I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to
> > switch.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Don Cameron
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
> >
> >
> > Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back was
> > planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to
> > ask if
> > they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle
> > two years
> > out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big torque
> > and a wide
> > power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so, the price of
> > the UQM
> > might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey compared to some of the
> > motors available today.
> >
> > What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
> >
> >
> >
> > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
> > Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
> >
> > I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
> > price for
> > the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive
> > according to my
> > conversations with them is about $28K with controller, and the
> > batteries
> > must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit quantities. So,
> > $44k just
> > in batteries and drive and it will be sold for $1k more as a complete
> > vehicle. If this can be delivered in a quality package in a year it
> > will say
> > much to how fast things are moving. The UQM drives are made to
> > order in
> > Colorado and I think the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I
> > may just
> > have to forget my conversion and buy something new in a year or
> > two, but I
> > really don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date: 10/3/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After monitoring this list for a long time I have a question.
While cleaning out my warehouse today I found a Dc motor. I am curious if it
would have any application on an EV? It has a 7/8" shaft on one end and what
appears to be a tachometer on the other.
Reliance Super T DC Motor
frame 186A
HP 1
Volts 240 Duty cont.
Amps 4.2 Rise 60 C
Rpm 1750-3500
Winding stab shunt
Actually 2 questions. Are there any EV'Rs in the Daytona FL area?
Thanks Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim
Sorry, not an EV motor.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jim Sylvester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
After monitoring this list for a long time I have a question.
While cleaning out my warehouse today I found a Dc motor. I am curious if it
would have any application on an EV? It has a 7/8" shaft on one end and what
appears to be a tachometer on the other.
Reliance Super T DC Motor
frame 186A
HP 1
Volts 240 Duty cont.
Amps 4.2 Rise 60 C
Rpm 1750-3500
Winding stab shunt
Actually 2 questions. Are there any EV'Rs in the Daytona FL area?
Thanks Jim
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would be worth an inquire. Perhaps several people would be
interested and the cost may now be lower?
Did you see that on the UQM site?
M
On Oct 4, 2006, at 2:18 PM, torich1 wrote:
They say you can buy their product at http://www.kta-ev.com BUT!
KTA makes
no mention of this product in their catalog....
Rich Va
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:08 PM
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
yeah, just buy 100 of them. LOL.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
does anyone know a way to source one at a reasonable price? Seems
like a great solution.
On Oct 4, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Andrew Roberts wrote:
The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major
thing
about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or
solectria or
siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically
smaller.
I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to
switch.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years
back was
planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to
ask if
they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle
two years
out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big torque
and a wide
power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so, the price of
the UQM
might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey compared to some
of the
motors available today.
What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
price for
the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive
according to my
conversations with them is about $28K with controller, and the
batteries
must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit quantities. So,
$44k just
in batteries and drive and it will be sold for $1k more as a
complete
vehicle. If this can be delivered in a quality package in a year it
will say
much to how fast things are moving. The UQM drives are made to
order in
Colorado and I think the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I
may just
have to forget my conversion and buy something new in a year or
two, but I
really don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
Mark
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date:
10/3/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Snip>
I think the big advantage is that brushless motors are easier to build for
high RPMs. How much torque a motor produces has an effect on how much it
weighs. If you can produce the same power at twice the RPM, then you only
need 1/2 the torque and this makes the motor lighter.
Hey Peter, all
Actually they list the max rpms on this at 5000, same as the ADC FB1, and
less than the ADC8's. Kind of blows that theory now doesn't it 8^ P
I saw these a few months back, pretty proud of their stuff is all I got to
say 8^ )
Be fun to poke my face into one, I'll wait for a burnt one though, LMAO!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After a multi-year campaign spearheaded by the Electric Vehicle Council
of Ottawa (EVCO), the province of Ontario has agreed to establish a
pilot project under the auspices of the Ontario Ministry of
Transportation (MTO).
The pilot project permits any Ontario resident age sixteen years or
older to use an electric-assisted bike that meets the standards set out
by Transport Canada for Power Assist Bicycles. Operators are required
to wear a bicycle helmet. The pilot is expected to run for three years,
during which time MTO will monitor usage with a view to how well this
vehicle class blends into the existing vehicle mix in the province.
The recognition of e-bikes under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (HTA)
due to the pilot project is expected to clear up the confusion in
Ontario that has required some Ontario residents to register their
e-bikes as mopeds (motor-assisted bicycles). The recently released 2006
MTO Cycling Skills booklet mentions the PAB pilot project. PABs have
been legal in most of the rest of Canada for several years.
EVCO is grateful for the support of Ontario Transportation Minister
Donna Cansfield, who only recently moved to this portfolio, for helping
make the pilot project a reality before the 2006 cycling season is over.
Phil McNeely, MPP for Ottawa-Orléans and Parliamentary Assistant to
Minister Cansfield has also been supportive of our initiative over the
years.
The standards for electric-assist bikes were established so that they
would be identical to conventional bicycles in performance and
operation. Due to their use of electric motors to provide assistance to
the cyclist, they are virtually silent and produce no emissions in
operation. The electric assist allows cyclists to extend their
operating range and climb hills, and enhances their confidence to take
on longer trips. The standards only permit the electric assist to
provide power up to speeds of 32 km/h, comparable to what many cyclists
can accomplish without assistance. Because the e-bikes are conventional
other than the addition of the electric-assist capability, they can be
used on bike paths, on bike carriers attached to transit vehicles, and
secured in standard bike racks.
Adding these zero-emissions vehicles to the Ontario road mix will allow
some motorists to leave their cars and trucks at home, reducing the
amount of air, water, noise and thermal pollution associated with their
use. Because the e-bikes encourage the rider to contribute human power
as well for longer range or higher speeds, health benefits will result
for the individuals as well from the opportunity to exercise that fits
into their current daily schedule.
Due to the efficiency of these machines that use about 1/100th of a kWh
per km - about $0.001 worth, the additional demand for electricity in
the province will be undetectable. For a 20 km trip, the e-bike will
use less electricity than a hair-dryer used for 10 minutes. Further,
most charging is expected to happen overnight, when the Ontario grid has
a surplus of generating capacity. By displacing a conventional car for
that 20 km trip, 4 to 6 kg of CO2 are kept out of the atmosphere. Of
course, emissions such as carbon monoxide, a poison; nitrogen oxides, a
smog pre-cursor; sulphur oxides, which cause acid rain; volatile organic
compounds, a smog pre-cursor; small particulates, which are respiratory
irritants; and, other toxins and carcinogens are also reduced
dramatically. Most importantly, these emissions are removed from our
urban areas at ground level, precisely where most of us are living and
breathing.
EVCO member Juergen Weichert deserves special credit for his steady
efforts to keep this issue moving forward, and attending a workshop in
Toronto to represent EVCO's position. Juergen's company, Acclivity
Solutions, markets electric bikes, conversion kits and components,
including Bionx and Crystalite products.
The Ontario government announcement can be seen here:
http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2006/10/04/c4982.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html
The Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa Press Release =========
October 4, 2006 (Toronto)
For Immediate Release
The Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa (EVCO) applauds today's
announcement by Ontario Transportation Minister Donna Cansfield to
permit electric-assist bicycles on Ontario roadways under a pilot project.
Electric-assist bicycles (officially called Power Assisted Bicycles or
PABs) are bicycles with a small electric motor that are limited to a
maximum speed of 32km/h and a maximum power of 500 Watts. Electric
bicycles are zero-emission vehicles. Anyone in Ontario who is 16 years
of age or older may ride an electric bike during the pilot project which
is expected to last three years.
"Many Ontario citizens have been waiting eagerly to drive their electric
bicycles legally or to acquire one" notes Etienne Gibeault, EVCO
President. "We are thrilled that these electric vehicles are now legal."
Electric-assist bicycles are available, affordable and are as easy to
use as a standard bicycle. The electric motor and battery pack provide
cyclists with clean, quiet and non-polluting power -- ideal for hill
climbing, extending one's range, assisting those with mobility
impairments and reducing the effort associated with cycling (a bonus for
those without shower facilities at work). Electric bike riders can get
as much exercise as they choose without worrying about longer distances
or over-exertion. Electric bikes allow the rider to pedal as much as
desired while providing power-assist when required.
Electric bike riders are now able to do their part to reduce greenhouse
gas emissions, improve air quality, and stay fit without having to worry
about breaking the law. EVCO congratulates the Minister for taking this
step and looks forward to a time when a variety of electric vehicles are
legal on Ontario roads.
"Relatively inexpensive electric vehicles are now within reach of the
average consumer," says Etienne Gibeault. "This is a viable alternative
for Ontarians who want something more than the traditional means of
transportation."
****************************************
EVCO is a voluntary, non-profit organization that promotes the use of
electric vehicles in applications where they are appropriate. Electric
vehicles are viable transportation alternatives that are ecological,
economical, practical and available. EVCO has been campaigning for the
legalization of electric bicycles in Ontario for over 3 years.
Spokesperson: Juergen Weichert (613) 746-7685
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa
P.O.Box 4044, Station "E"
Ottawa, ON, Canada
K1S 5B1
www.evco.ca
=========================================================================
(Darryl McMahon is the President of Econogics, an e-bike owner, and a
member of EVCO, the EAA, and Electric Mobility Canada as well as a
long-time proponent and owner of zero-emissions electric-drive vehicles.)
--
Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com
It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will?
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--- Begin Message ---
Dmitri wrote:
The current usable specific energy of ultracaps is about 5 wh/kg. Now
you can easily compare to lead, which is 30wh/kg, and Li-Ion, which is
100 - 200 wh/kg. This means you will get about 6 times less range for
the same amount of weight of lead acid.
yea, and that's seems to be the very top end. other than for times when
you want lots of amps over a very short period, i am not seeing the
benefit. perhaps as a supplement to batteries to keep the voltage from
pulling down under heavy loads, for example trying to get on a short on
ramp to the freeway???
thanks for the info!
-mike
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--- Begin Message ---
So then,
what top 3 controllers would you all recommend that would deliver similar
"Zilla-like" performance?
We'd like to build EVs with Zilla-like performance and want to know which
controllers come close to the performance of Zillas (e.g. the Raptor 600 Amp
controller by chance?)
Sincerely,
Adan Vielma
Lewis & Clark College
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered? - range or speed
Michael,
I have 60 miles range with a load of 26 Trojan T-125's.
Shadow Mountain High School had 20 T-145's (120 Volts and a 500 Amp
Curtis)
in their Porsche, which beat my high school EV Ford Escort on range and
performance. lighter car, better aerodynamics.
Zilla is the best, but I have a Raptor 600 Amp controller that seems
(emphasize, this is my opinion) to do as much as the batteries and motor
can handle. If I wanted more power, I would need to upgrade both the
controller and the batteries (again my opinion).
the evidence I have, is that the voltage drops .5 to 1 volt per 6 V
battery
for max accleration. Any more doesn't seem healthy.
Still, I'm satisfied with performance (I've learned patience), becaue I
know I have great range.
I wonder if 1000 Amps is all that useful with flooded batteries? (an open
question I would like to know the answer to)
Ben
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Jeff Major wrote:
Mike,
The field coils produce a magnetic field through the pole piece, around a portion of the yoke (or frame), through opposite polarity pole piece and throught the armature to complete the magnetic circuit. This is the main field or simply "field". The armature has coils with current and produces its own magnetic field which is pointed inbetween the main field poles, referred to be in quadrature with the main field. This armature field tends to weaken the main field on one pole side and stengthen it on the other side. This distorts the main field unequally and moves or shifts the zero crossover point from north to south poles on the main field distrubution. This is referred to as armature distortion of the main field or armature reaction.
It is desireable to switch direction of the current in the armature coils when there is no voltage induced on them from the main field, or percisely when the field crosses from north to south and south to north. Armature distortion is one reason why brushes spark as they commutate. It is possible to compensate for this armature reaction by shifting the brushes and reduce sparking. The direction of the shift depends on the direction of rotation and whether it is a motor or generator. What is good for a CW motor is bad for CCW. What is good for a CW motor is bad for a CW generator. Since the motor becomes a generator during regeneration, a motor with shifted brushes will likely spark during regeneration.
Interpoles are another method to counteract armature reaction and are quite common in larger motors. I have an 11 inch, 96 volt motor with interpoles. Unlike the brush shift method, interpoles work in either rotation direction and for motor and generator action alike. Obviously, interpoles (and com coils wound on them) are more expensive than shifting brushes and consume some power, but not much. The upside to interpoles is they do not weaken the main field as does shifting brushes in motors and of course work well for reversible motors and motors used in regeneration applications.
I hope this helps.
Jeff
thanks! i had to draw a picture and do the thumb/finger pointing
thing...lol...but now it starts to make sense.
kind regards,
mike
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--- Begin Message ---
Mike Swift wrote:
Usable energy from ultra-caps may be 5 Wh/kg, but ones you can buy from
ISE corporation are about 3.25 Wh/kg packaged. Dimensions are 24" x 40"
x 12". Now in a year or two these specifications on deliverable product
may improve by a factor of two, so design your vehicle around those
specs and see if it makes any sense to proceed with this route.
thanks! after further investigation, it appears this is a non-started
for me. but i still think it is a very cool thing; i hope this becomes
a disruptive technology to the battery industry. at the very least i
hope it prompts them to get going...
kind regards,
mike
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--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:39 PM, Jim Sylvester wrote:
After monitoring this list for a long time I have a question.
While cleaning out my warehouse today I found a Dc motor. I am curious
if it would have any application on an EV? It has a 7/8" shaft on one
end and what appears to be a tachometer on the other.
Reliance Super T DC Motor
frame 186A
HP 1
Volts 240 Duty cont.
Amps 4.2 Rise 60 C
Rpm 1750-3500
Winding stab shunt
This might be able to run an accessory like an air conditioner. The
shunt winding would allow it to be set to a particular speed. 240
volts is a little higher than the average conversion, but it would suit
me pretty well. I'll be looking for something like that motor when I
get around to installing an AC system.
Actually 2 questions. Are there any EV'Rs in the Daytona FL area?
Check the EV Album and see.
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/geo/Florida>
Ken Watkins has a very nice looking S-10 conversion in Lake Mary. Of
course Steve Clunn is in Ft. Pierce, and Jerry Dycus is in Riverview.
These guys are building EVs and selling them to the public.
Thanks Jim
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
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--- Begin Message ---
I have a 4050 lb car with a 9", the stock tranny and a zilla 1K.
When I had the notebook plugged in and gathered data I could get to
989Amps in the motor loop but couldn't get over 400 in the battery loop.
The amplification the zilla does from 288V pack to 170V motor limit
provides this.
The main benefit I see with the zilla is that it also replaces the
typical cars computer, with error codes, and safeties.
If I had some bucks, I would get a second motor and a S/P switch which
the zilla is capable of managing and get rid of the noisy tranny.
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--- Begin Message ---
Jerry -
This is a design decision that cannot be best made by asking for the
opinions of people who don't know the particulars of the vehicle involved.
Some may say "range" and some may say "performance" but those answers won't
help you at all.
The best plan would be to put together a model ( a spreadsheet, for example)
of the car - that includes weight, tire drag, air drag, battery and
controller characteristics, etc. Then, try several different motor windings
in the model ( and different gear ratios) and see what happens - as far as
performance, required motor current, power consumption at a range of speeds,
and so forth.
A good place to start would be with an already-available motor winding
configuration and make small changes from there.
The motor winding ( and gearing) has to be selected to work best with the
car, batteries, and controller, at the speeds ( and climbing the hills )
that you think that the vehicle will be asked to do. You have to decide
what "best " is, based on what the goals of the vehicle are, and your
priorities.
Otherwise, you risk ending up with ( for example) a motor that overheats
chronically, a controller that overheats, less than optimum efficiency
leading to poor range, inadequate top speed, inabiltiy to climb hills, etc.
It all has to be balanced.
I would put saving weight by reducing the gear ratio pretty low on my list
of priorities. Concentrate on performance, range, and reliability (
acheivable by not over-stressing components).
If you want to account for gearing weight, you could put that effect in the
model as you try different gear ratios.
Phil
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: New motor winding for eff info needed? Freedom EV update
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:08:30 -0500
Hi All,
As the finish date on the Freedom EV prototype
comes closer, I have to order the motor for it.
I can order any windings I want so what should
I go for for eff, power?
Should I go for more torque per amp and low rpm
so the reduction gear is smaller, lighter cheaper? Or should
I go higher rpm, more gearing?
The motor will be a D+D 6.7", probably the L
size length at 85lbs. The battery pack is 72vdc and
controller is an Alltrax 7245.
Just finished gluing the bottom to the body,
tabbed in and cut out the wheelwells. After grinding it
flush, I'll roll it back over upright and cut out the
windshield, doors so it will soon start looking like it
should!!
Then it's just a matter of bolting everything
in, wiring it up. Right? ;^D
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
_________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:14 AM, Mike Phillips wrote:
One of the projects that US Electricar didn't finish was having the
brake lights come on during regen. Regen on my truck is set to max and
it stops very quickly without the use of the brake pedal. So I'm
wondering if there is a circuit to be had that will allow them to be
activated on regen.
A mercury switch? I've always thought it would be a good idea to have
something like this that would warn drivers behind you when you
decelerate for any reason (downshift, mechanical problem, running into
a snowbank, etc).
How is regen controlled in your vehicle? Does it require the brake
pedal to be pressed, or does it kick in when you let up on the
throttle, or ???
The S10 that I have uses a relay to drive the tail
lights. So that part is done.
Mike
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
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--- Begin Message ---
I have a question about series motor timing. I can build a variable
brush rigging that is servo controled or ...lots of methods, that is no
problem, but is there a way to detect the condition of the armature
reaction in real time.
So far I have heard about sensor brushes
My best, first, idea is to use rpm and amps into a lookup table to
determine angle.
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--- Begin Message ---
Adan wrote:
what top 3 controllers would you all recommend that would deliver similar
"Zilla-like" performance?
Well... that could only currently be Zilla, Zilla, and Zilla. :)
There are 3 potential "wild card" options though. Yet too be built AC
Inverters where I imagine "money talks" in order to get these
built(soon). Talk to Otmar, Roderick, and Arthur Matteson in regards
to getting something supreme built.. (Bring some $$$)
Possibly even a fourth inverter....
http://www.killacycle.com/pages/specs_page2.html (what's the word on this?)
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