EV Digest 5967
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: supercapacitors
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) What shunt does a Westberg 2C6-19N need?
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Mechanical brush timing (Was: Re: series wound motor)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: What shunt does a Westberg 2C6-19N need?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) AC and DC together?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) RE: motor
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Brake lights on regen
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: RE A/C ststems
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: motor
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Why electric car companies should be focused on this one ideal EV
market: Hawaii, an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: supercapacitors
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Our litigious society
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered? - range or speed
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) How to Verify Timing
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Brake lights on regen
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Stupid Question?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: series wound motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Power Designers May Soon Think Zinc
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Our litigious society
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Need IL300-E IC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
From what I've seen, I don't even see ultracaps worth the huge cost, extra
weight and complexity to even help acceleration. Would be a lot more
beneficial for range and a lot cheaper to just add on some AGM batteries for
acceleration.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Sandman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: supercapacitors
Dmitri wrote:
The current usable specific energy of ultracaps is about 5 wh/kg. Now you
can easily compare to lead, which is 30wh/kg, and Li-Ion, which is 100 -
200 wh/kg. This means you will get about 6 times less range for the same
amount of weight of lead acid.
yea, and that's seems to be the very top end. other than for times when
you want lots of amps over a very short period, i am not seeing the
benefit. perhaps as a supplement to batteries to keep the voltage from
pulling down under heavy loads, for example trying to get on a short on
ramp to the freeway???
thanks for the info!
-mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm about to start individually charging my batts, and I figured putting
a voltmeter and ammeter in the charging cables was a good idea. But the
only ammeter I've got is a leftover Westberg 2C6-19N, marked "0-400 DC
AMPS".
This is just a 2" gauge. Surely it doesn't take 400 amps, especially
not with the #18 wires it's got coming out of it. But what does it take?
Anybody know what kind of shunt this meter needs?
Thanks,
Jude "Spark Lad" Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 4, 2006, at 9:36 PM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
I have a question about series motor timing. I can build a variable
brush rigging that is servo controled or ...lots of methods, that is no
problem, but is there a way to detect the condition of the armature
reaction in real time.
Could you use a motor with interpoles and avoid the whole brush timing
issue? Although I have one of Jim Husted's slick adjustable brush
rings, I wish I had a motor with interpoles. The Kostov 9in motor was
about equivalent to an ADC 8incher as far as power goes, and it had
interpoles.
I wonder if Jim would be able to enhance a Kostov to eliminate the weak
comm issue? Jim, have you ever seen a Kostov motor? I understand that
Randy at Canadian EV had a shelf full of Kostovs with exploded comms
and no warranty support from Russia.
So far I have heard about sensor brushes
My best, first, idea is to use rpm and amps into a lookup table to
determine angle.
How about using a Hall effect sensor to determine the armature field
strength at a particular point relative to the casing? Calculate or
look up what the flux should be at a given throttle position, then
compare to the actual value and adjust the brushes.
You could use instantaneous RPMs versus throttle position to determine
that you've just stomped on the throttle and a big fat pulse of amps is
headed to the motor, so you want to overcorrect.
My low-tech idea is to hook the end of the throttle cable to the brush
ring, after it's gone past the pot box. Step on the throttle, and you
are also pushing the brush ring to advance the timing. If desired, use
a lever to multiply your mechanical advantage (perhaps the pot box arm
itself?), and/or a cam to vary the amount of advance per inch of
throttle cable (small at first, increasing as you reach WOT).
Hopefully you will at least be able to do better than a static advance
setting, and the engineering should be easy and cheap.
The nice part of this idea is you don't have to deal with servo lag.
The bad part is you might have difficulty achieving optimal brush
angle. (I'm of the opinion that it will be equally difficult to figure
out the correct brush angle even with a computer in the circuit, at
least until you've completely characterized your drive system.)
The friction of the brushes on the armature applies torque to the brush
assembly. If you use this scheme, you'll probably want to arrange
things so that this torque acts to push on the throttle cable, not pull
on it. Now the brush ring acts like an extra throttle return spring.
This is how it would work on my 8in ADC in my Karmann Ghia, if I'm
visualizing everything correctly.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jude,
you can measure the millivolts it takes to get full scale reading,
for example by making a voltage divider (100 ohm and 10 kOhm
in series give a 100-divider)
and connecting the amp-meter across the 100 ohm and put a variable
power supply on one end of the 100 ohm and at the other end of the
10kOhm.
5 Volts on the power supply should send 50 MilliVolts into the
ampmeter, which is a typical full scale drive for an Amp meter,
but yours may be different.
Suppose your amp meter does give full scale reading at 50 mV
then you can connect it to an XXXX Amp 50 mV sunt to read
full scale when seeing XXXX Amps.
If the meter scale is calibrated to 400A then it makes sense to
use a 400A 50 mV shunt.
That is a shunt of 50mV/400A = 125 micro-Ohms (uOhm).
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jude Anthony
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:27 PM
To: EVDL
Subject: What shunt does a Westberg 2C6-19N need?
I'm about to start individually charging my batts, and I figured putting
a voltmeter and ammeter in the charging cables was a good idea. But the
only ammeter I've got is a leftover Westberg 2C6-19N, marked "0-400 DC
AMPS".
This is just a 2" gauge. Surely it doesn't take 400 amps, especially
not with the #18 wires it's got coming out of it. But what does it take?
Anybody know what kind of shunt this meter needs?
Thanks,
Jude "Spark Lad" Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had posted earlier I wanted to build a two motor AC vehicle. I am not
finding anything that would make this an easy task unless money is absolutely
no
object such as the Brusa products.
It was posted before if you want regeneration with a DC motor to just add a
generator. How about if you had a TransWarP 11 and added a Siemens or UQM as
a second motor that would provide regeneration and a second motor.
The TransWarP 11 already set up for pairs would sure make two motors an easy
set up. The DC motor and controller would be 10,000 the Siemens system cost
15,000 total cost 25,000. This is less than two Brusa motors not even adding
for the Brusa controller. Anyone have better ideas for a two motor system
with regeneration?
How to incorporate both systems to be able to use one foot?
Any recommendations on the second AC motor or if this just not a good idea
to get the performance I am after with regeneration?
Thanks
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course it's an EV motor - any motor is an EV motor.
But it may not be a practical motor and it probably will
not be usable for the EV you like.
First - its power is sufficient to propel an electric
bicycle or scooter or a very light NEV. Think 10 to 15 mph.
Second, the voltage of 240V is extremely high for such a
light motor - it will be hard to run it on a few batteries
like a typical scooter or eBike, using 24V or 36V.
The EV Album has a search by location function, so you
can check it if any EVs in Florida are in your neighborhood
and you could see if you want to go to BBB (Battery Beach
Burnout IIRC), see other posts on this list.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: motor
Hey Jim
Sorry, not an EV motor.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jim Sylvester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
After monitoring this list for a long time I have a question.
While cleaning out my warehouse today I found a Dc motor. I am curious if it
would have any application on an EV? It has a 7/8" shaft on one end and what
appears to be a tachometer on the other.
Reliance Super T DC Motor
frame 186A
HP 1
Volts 240 Duty cont.
Amps 4.2 Rise 60 C
Rpm 1750-3500
Winding stab shunt
Actually 2 questions. Are there any EV'Rs in the Daytona FL area?
Thanks Jim
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stock setting is that lifting the accel pedal will start
a mild regen (to simulate a heavy motor drag) and the
brake pedal will first increase the regen to max before
engaging the friction brakes.
This is also how the Toyota Prius does this.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Doug Weathers
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Brake lights on regen
On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:14 AM, Mike Phillips wrote:
> One of the projects that US Electricar didn't finish was having the
> brake lights come on during regen. Regen on my truck is set to max and
> it stops very quickly without the use of the brake pedal. So I'm
> wondering if there is a circuit to be had that will allow them to be
> activated on regen.
A mercury switch? I've always thought it would be a good idea to have
something like this that would warn drivers behind you when you
decelerate for any reason (downshift, mechanical problem, running into
a snowbank, etc).
How is regen controlled in your vehicle? Does it require the brake
pedal to be pressed, or does it kick in when you let up on the
throttle, or ???
> The S10 that I have uses a relay to drive the tail
> lights. So that part is done.
>
> Mike
>
>
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sharon,
On Sep 28, 2006, at 4:08 PM, Sharon G Alexander wrote:
We put A/C systems in conversions all the time,,they work,, they cool,
and its not a big deal to do it. Sharon
Could you give us a quick explanation of how you do it? Thanks!
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So what did you do about the battery box fans? With the Zivan charger,
they only run while the charger is charging. Do you just strap them so
that they run while the car is plugged in?
Thanks,
Jake
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Edward Ang
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
Jake,
On the EV's I upgraded to use the PFC series chargers, I simply
replaced the AC interlock relay with a 12V relay. On the Sparrow, it
is a direct drop-in replacement. I then use a 12V universal input
switching power supply to power the relay.
On 10/2/06, Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So how do people usually wire up a PFC-30 so that you can't drive away
> while it's charging?
>
>
>
> Can I use the +5V from the Regbus to trigger a relay? If so, how much
> power can I safely draw from it? Will the regs pull that line high
even
> when I'm not charging?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake Oshins
>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Second, the voltage of 240V is extremely high for such a
light motor - it will be hard to run it on a few batteries
like a typical scooter or eBike, using 24V or 36V.
but it might make a good motor to run a A/C I'd trade a few scooter motors
for it , or maybe buy it , I'm in florida , north of west palm beach
steve clunn
The EV Album has a search by location function, so you
can check it if any EVs in Florida are in your neighborhood
and you could see if you want to go to BBB (Battery Beach
Burnout IIRC), see other posts on this list.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: motor
Hey Jim
Sorry, not an EV motor.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jim Sylvester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
After monitoring this list for a long time I have a question.
While cleaning out my warehouse today I found a Dc motor. I am curious if
it
would have any application on an EV? It has a 7/8" shaft on one end and
what
appears to be a tachometer on the other.
Reliance Super T DC Motor
frame 186A
HP 1
Volts 240 Duty cont.
Amps 4.2 Rise 60 C
Rpm 1750-3500
Winding stab shunt
Actually 2 questions. Are there any EV'Rs in the Daytona FL area?
Thanks Jim
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
faster.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You only need to run the fans while the charger
is actually charging, so the simplest way to avoid your
pack or aux battery can be run down by the fans is
to power them from the charger *input*, essentially
straight from the plug (with transformer and rectifier
to create the proper voltage).
When the plug loses power, for example when you unplug the
car, it is OK for the fans to stop UNLESS you need them
for cooling the batteries, then you need to use either
the pack or the 12V acc battery to power them.
YMMV.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jake Oshins
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
So what did you do about the battery box fans? With the Zivan charger,
they only run while the charger is charging. Do you just strap them so
that they run while the car is plugged in?
Thanks,
Jake
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Edward Ang
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: PFC-30 no-drive-away interlock
Jake,
On the EV's I upgraded to use the PFC series chargers, I simply
replaced the AC interlock relay with a 12V relay. On the Sparrow, it
is a direct drop-in replacement. I then use a 12V universal input
switching power supply to power the relay.
On 10/2/06, Jake Oshins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So how do people usually wire up a PFC-30 so that you can't drive away
> while it's charging?
>
>
>
> Can I use the +5V from the Regbus to trigger a relay? If so, how much
> power can I safely draw from it? Will the regs pull that line high
even
> when I'm not charging?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake Oshins
>
>
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Why electric car companies should be focused on this one ideal
EV market: Hawaii
> Sebastian,
>
> Your observations regarding Hawaii and its potential as an EV test ground
> is spot on. There is no reason why Hawaii should not be a leader in EV
> technology for the reasons you mentioned. In fact we should be innovators
> in all areas of alternate and renewable energy development. We have such
an
> abundance of energy in the form of solar, wind, geothermal, wave, biomass
> (sugar cane), etc. that we have no excuse not to be more self sufficient
in
> this regard. If anything, we in Hawaii should be exporting energy.
>
> I teach math and science at a high school in Maui. I, along with another
> teacher, offer an engineering elective where our goal is to expose
students
> to the field of engineering. We started out building Electrathon cars and
> competing in a statewide competition. The local utility sponsored the
event
> over the past 10 years and just recently dropped the program. As a result
> we've revamped the course and this year we will be doing an EV conversion.
> In addition to covering engineering concepts we hope to educate our
students
> on the issues surrounding peak oil, global warming, sustainability, etc.
We
> also plan on building a solar garage that will charge the vehicle during
the
> day. Our ultimate goal is to demonstrate that EV's are a practical and
> viable solution to our local transportation needs. When complete we hope
to
> get the car out in the community to raise awareness.
>
> A large portion of the cars driving our roads are operated by tourists.
It
> would seem that by having such a large rental fleet, we could introduce
the
> EV to our rental fleet and require that the hotels add charging stations
to
> their parking structures. As you mentioned, a 50 to 60 mile range would
be
> more than adequate to satisfy most tourist transportation needs.
Something
> to this effect was attempted a few years back. A company in Lahaina (West
> Maui) rented a fleet of GEM's. It was more a novelty as the tourists who
> rented these already had a normal rental car. As such the GEM's are
> currently deteriorating in the sun and salt spray at a junk yard.
>
> Your point on Hawaii citizens being environmentally conscience is
generally
> true, however if you look at the resistance the developers experienced in
> constructing the recently completed wind farm (Maui's first) it's clear
that
> not everyone sees the bigger picture. Many people (both locals and
> tourists) complained of the unsightliness of the structures. Many of these
> same people don't realize that our power plants have at most a 30 day
supply
> of oil to keep the electricity flowing. It won't take long after the
boats
> stop coming in that Hawaii is screwed (we have no more than 1 weeks worth
of
> food and other essential supplies).
>
> So the bottom line is I agree with you completely. Hawaii could and
should
> be completely self sufficient when it comes to energy (power generation
and
> transportation). In terms of the EV, I think that if one existed at a
price
> comparable to an ICE car (not a Tesla) with a reasonable range (for Island
> commuting) we could get something going here. Does this car exist in the
US
> market? The idea of then charging the EV using sun or wind power is even
> more appealing. Maybe I should quit my teaching job and start importing
> EV's :) .
>
> Martin Emde
>
> Hi Marty an' EVerybody;
Love it when you talk like that! I mean the above. Howbout a Hawaii EAA
Chapter to pull things together. Get some meetings together, flush the
latent EVers out of the woodwork, (Cane Fields) WhatEVer it takes. If the
place is environmentally hot as you say, should be easy. You guys will have
to build, convert, some cars for now. The Freedom EV looks like it will run
a prototype this year? You are in the same boat as we are in the states, no
manufactured walk-in-the-showroom EV 's you can buy.
Seems that folks that live on islands are prime EV folks, like Bermuda?
They should OUTLAW Infernal Cumbustion vehicles next Week! Island is TINY,
EVen the lousiest conversion could run the whole island? Windpower Gees!
They are sitting out in a nice breezy ocean, You mean that they aren't
getting most or all of their power from Wind turbines? Hell! They arent
running oil refineries and alumimum smelters out there?
Ranting on: New York's Long Island. Flat, distances relatively short.
Show of Hands here? Long Island? Stand up and be counted here! You SHOULD be
a hotbed of EV activity!!I grew up there and know it well, only a quirk of
geography I'm across the pond in CT. I had friends here that hooked me up
with the RR up here. So I'm here, safe from tasamais and tidal waves, ACROSS
the pond<g>!But there should be EV's cruising Montauk Hiway, by now, lining
up at the Southhampton Country Club, all the other high class places, around
the Island. Will have a big market in LI just in Station Cars, a car that
lives just to take a guy or gal to the Long Island Rail Road, a local
instutution, as well as fast, nice transportation to NYC, Electric, mostly,
of course? They have been doing it for over 100 years. A Rail Road, THAT'S
the way the spell it, as their 1830 charter, it was written that way as 2
words. LI Trivia here.Thousands of cars spend their daze at the station,
Freedom EV's would be like making the parking lots bigger!Don't need the
outlets, but it would be nice.Well, CT, too As lottsa folks commute on Metro
North, the old New York, New Haven and Hartford, gone,but not forgotten, up
here.Boston, Gees! They can't put traks back fast enough, reviving lines
that were abandoned 50 years ago, all with lovely new parking lots for the
station cars.
But, all kidding aside Hawaii IS the Place to get EV's on the road, as
well as the above and the rest of the country.
Other Stuff;
Now IF I could get the Rabbit motor bolted together in the 88 Jetta? If
DOES bolt in but I have a major metal fabbing project to mount it up, to the
goofy 3 point suspension setup the Jettas have. Hafta weld a support, mount
bracket on the rs chassis box frame, adapt the motor(engine) mount to take
care of the xtra thickness of my adapter plate. Gotta figure out exactly
WHERE the tranny sits as that rear tranny mount surviving is rather vague,
can shift it around at will.When that is done will throw in about 3,12volt
Dynasties and go for a spin, like I do with the comntrollerless , 87 Sentra/
30 volts, 5th gear=30mpg on the level. With this theory: 90MPH with 90
volts<g>?Jumper cables ZAP! Wheeeee! Hop in ,,were OFF!The Cursit will be
nice! So this is a non progress report, for now. Gotta make an adapter plate
for the OTHER Sentra, the squeeky clean 97 body. waiting it's turn, lerking
in the outer garage for now. So I have 3 EV's in the works, now, in various
stages of conversion. I like what I see with the VW Jetta, as to ease of
conversion, and talking with the VW garus the aftermarket stuff for Jettas
is good. Heavier springs, brakes all that.Sentra? Well I'll be finding out
pretty quick, I guess?And WAY out in the outer shed the Plymouth Sundance
still waits. So Think cars! I won't turn away any OTHER clean small lite
cars, if they come around.
End of progress report. In the Off Topic Trivia dept this the East Broad
Top RR Steam train weekend. EBT is the last of the3 foot narrow gage RR
survivors in Eastern Pennslowmania. It is fun to take a nostalgia ride on
1880's vintage passenger cars, and 100 year old steam lokies. Don't ya just
love the smell of coal smoke in the morning?Take a trip to REAL yesteryear,
if you are anywhere near Orbisonia PA.(But, Trust me, there is NOWHERE near
Orbisonia PA) stop by.I have suggested, tongue in cheek, of electrifying the
whole RR for faster cleaner service, batteries or trolley wire. For you Left
Coast folks, think The Silvertown- Denver and Reo Grande Western Tourist
thing in Durango CO.Same size and quaintness.One of the many features of the
EBT is it is sorta in a time warp. The ancient shop is vintage, too. This
outfit ran into the 1950's, til the coal mines closed. was junked, the guy
that bought it, to scrap it ,was charmed by it's antiquity, didn't have the
heart to just junk it. Fired it up, for us guyz born on Diseasels an'
Electrics, it charms industrial archielogists, and just plain folks that
love old trains, small size, the charm of it all<g>!If they ever get enough
money to fix the whole line up, they will have a 30 mile ride. Trains are an
expensive hobby, especially almost full size!Their biggist lokie is a
featherweight 70 tons!Nothing like Union Pathetic's 200 ton freight jobs!Or
block long turbines.One survives, for your viewing pleasure ,at the Illinois
RR museum.
Oh yeah the Shade Gap Electric RY Trolley museum is there too. Ride a
famous Conway Brill Bullet, hy speed car. Only trolley car designed in a
wind tunnel,in the late twenties, built of light aluminum, less than 20 tons
with 400hp on tap. It GOES! But not on the museum trak, very fast!Only 10
were built, they survived til the 80's in the Philly area. They were
replaced by newer trolley cars! EVen a Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee"
Electro Liner" trainset, one of two built. Another trendsetter, grandaddy of
the MAX and other lite rail cars out there nowadaze.Lots of fun stuff.
Seeya there?
Bob
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There is also an issue of wh/$ and wh/cu ft. A pound of super/ultra
caps is going to be far more expensive than a lb of lead! So far the
costs have been astronomically higher than lead acid capacity.
It does not seem as if it would be possible to get a useful range if the
caps were free, since both the weight and volume would not fit in the
vehicle.
But, these things change. EEStor's projections of what they might be
able to make would be phenomenal. The 336 lb, 1.2 cu ft, $3100
(initial) pack claims an energy with the range equivalent of like 4-5
gal of gasoline. Actually I think I pulled that figure off of
calculations for lead-acid equivalency, these much lighter caps with no
Peukert's issues may be able to perform substantially better.
EEStor has made some truly remarkable advancements in this field in the
past. However, they do not sell such a product at this time. They have
not demonstrated a working device like this. It is unclear whether they
have a prototype with these properties either. It is possible that they
could never live up to their power density or cost claims. How possible
it is for them to do what they promise is anybody's guess. Nobody here
is qualified to evaluate the scientific merit of their claims, it's
pretty far "out there". In fact I think the only people qualified to
evaluate their claims already work at EEStor.
Danny
Dmitri wrote:
The current usable specific energy of ultracaps is about 5 wh/kg. Now
you can easily compare to lead, which is 30wh/kg, and Li-Ion, which is
100 - 200 wh/kg. This means you will get about 6 times less range for
the same amount of weight of lead acid.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Sandman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:36 AM
Subject: supercapacitors
next, i plan to learn about how to determine *usable* energy in these
things. meaning, if i drop in X pounds of lead, i go a certain
distance--yes, yes, many other variables. so if i drop in X pounds
of capacitors, how far do i go...assuming all-things-being-equal as
much as possible. also, what is likely to be the result of comparing
*usable* energy per unit mass or volume to that of different battery
chemistries? or, to get a usable range from capacitors what is likely
to be the most limiting physical factor: volume or weight? with my
conversion using lead, it is definitely weight.
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Makes no difference as far as you're personally liable
unless corp has something to pay out. Again in this
case it is not considered as valid corporation by a court,
foreign or not. Just ask right lawyer.
Victor
Patrick Maston wrote:
You need to incorporate in Nevada or Delaware. Best corporation laws in the U.S. You
can then have your corp. registered as a "foreign" corporation in your state to
do business there and still have superior protection.
Blue skies,
Patrick
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Jeff
How is the performance and range of this car?
Dave Cover
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a 4050 lb car with a 9", the stock tranny and a zilla 1K.
>
> The amplification the zilla does from 288V pack to 170V motor limit
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Hi,
I advanced the timing on my Prestolite 4001 motor 8 degrees. Then I applied
6V (12V would be more pronounced) and with my uP hall effect RPM monitor
measured 600rpm's in the forward (CCW when facing the motor front) direction
and 540 in reverse. I drilled 1/2" CW to advance into the CCW direction on the
bell end of the brush assembly, tapped 4 1/4-20 holes. I was going to go Jim's
recommended 10 degrees but the brush holder screws bumped the housing at that
point.
So that's the easiest way to veify if your motor is advanced, it will spin
faster in the preferred direction.
There's been talk adout Advance DC pre-advancing their motors but when I
called an engineer there he mentioned what seamed intuitively obvious. How
could you send advanced motors in one direction to a distributor *not* knowing
which direction they were going to be used in. So he said only in special
specific cases where they knew the end application would they advance their
motors, don't be misled by the company name.
Cheers,
Mark
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Ooops, my bad, was only thinking drive motor 8^ )
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
steve clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Second, the voltage of 240V is extremely high for such a
> light motor - it will be hard to run it on a few batteries
> like a typical scooter or eBike, using 24V or 36V.
>
but it might make a good motor to run a A/C I'd trade a few scooter motors
for it , or maybe buy it , I'm in florida , north of west palm beach
steve clunn
> The EV Album has a search by location function, so you
> can check it if any EVs in Florida are in your neighborhood
> and you could see if you want to go to BBB (Battery Beach
> Burnout IIRC), see other posts on this list.
>
> Success,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Husted
> Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:46 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: motor
>
>
> Hey Jim
>
> Sorry, not an EV motor.
>
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Jim Sylvester wrote:
> After monitoring this list for a long time I have a question.
> While cleaning out my warehouse today I found a Dc motor. I am curious if
> it
>
> would have any application on an EV? It has a 7/8" shaft on one end and
> what
>
> appears to be a tachometer on the other.
> Reliance Super T DC Motor
> frame 186A
> HP 1
> Volts 240 Duty cont.
> Amps 4.2 Rise 60 C
> Rpm 1750-3500
> Winding stab shunt
> Actually 2 questions. Are there any EV'Rs in the Daytona FL area?
> Thanks Jim
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done
> faster.
>
>
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1ยข/min.
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The regen is tied to throttle position. So I can regulate the regen by
how far I let off the pedal. The throttle/regen curve is controlled in
the software settings.
Maybe a mercury switch installed at just the right inclination would work.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2006, at 5:14 AM, Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> > One of the projects that US Electricar didn't finish was having the
> > brake lights come on during regen. Regen on my truck is set to max and
> > it stops very quickly without the use of the brake pedal. So I'm
> > wondering if there is a circuit to be had that will allow them to be
> > activated on regen.
>
> A mercury switch? I've always thought it would be a good idea to have
> something like this that would warn drivers behind you when you
> decelerate for any reason (downshift, mechanical problem, running into
> a snowbank, etc).
>
> How is regen controlled in your vehicle? Does it require the brake
> pedal to be pressed, or does it kick in when you let up on the
> throttle, or ???
>
> > The S10 that I have uses a relay to drive the tail
> > lights. So that part is done.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Las Cruces, NM, USA
> <http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
>
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Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Yes you can, but I doubt you'll save much or weight or complexity.
In order to run without a transmission, you need a larger motor,
or perhaps two motors. Since a second motor weighs about as much
as a transmission, you don't end up saving any weight.
It's not quite that bad. Purpose-built EVs don't normally use
transmissions; they just have a large enough motor to do the job with a
single fixed gear ratio. The motor (and controller) need to be bigger;
but the extra size and weight is still smaller than a transmission. If
you have to pay for the transmission, it's also cheaper to use a bigger
motor and controller.
Also, running without a tranny means that most of the time the motor(s)
are running in the low efficiency portion of their torque curve, so you
range falls.
Not necessarily. Often, the efficiency saving from eliminating the
transmission more than makes up for the slight loss in motor efficiency.
Bigger motors also tend to be *more* efficient than smaller ones.
Now all of the above assumes you are using a series wound motor.
Many of the AC motors can run with a single speed transmission
Almost all EVs are transmissionless, for both series DC and AC motors.
It's only ICE conversions that use transmissions, mainly because it's
already there, and thus "free".
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Peter VanDerWal wrote:
A couple points that Lee didn't mention. In order to use a series wound
motor as a generator, and avoid arcing, you need to set the brushes for
a neutral position. You need to do this because running it as a generator
you wnat to have the brushes retarded from neutral, but running it as a
motor you want them advanced.
That's a good point, though it only applies to series motors without
interpoles. Shunt, sepex, PM, or motors with interpoles don't have this
problem of brush timing changing with current and direction of rotation.
Neutral is a compromise that doesn't work really well for either,
but avoids problems with each as long as you keep the current down.
This has two negative effects on using the motor as a motor. It
limits your maximum current when driving (otherwise arcing occurs),
and it lowers the motors efficiency.
Not quite. Brush timing has almost no effect on efficiency -- it only
changes 1%-2% for even relatively large changes in brush timing.
And the current at which arcing crosses some arbitary threshold is a
complex function of current, rpm, voltage, and brush timing.
Interpoles will allow the motor to run more efficiently and with less
problems with arcing.
Almost; interpoles reduce arcing, but lower efficiency (but again, only
very slightly; like 1-2%).
The other important item to note is that Regen just recovers part
of the energy used to increase speed (or altitude, i.e. climb a hill).
Energy used to move the vehicle down the road is GONE.
So unless you are spending a lot of time accelerating/decelerating, or
going up and down hills, you won't get much back from regen.
Right.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
Didn't GM use silver-zinc batteries something like 30 years ago in the
Electrovair?
Yes. NASA used them in the Lunar Rover EV, too. Fantastic performance,
but low cycle life and a huge price. You get the silver all back when
you recycle them, though.
More recently, maybe 10 years ago, BAT used them (surreptitiously)
so they could crank out a news release about one of their converted
Metros doing a couple hundred miles on one charge.
Right again! It's a great marketing scam. Put unobtainium batteries your
mediocre EV so it gets incredible performance, sell lots of stock, then
take the money and run!
IIRC, silver-zinc's weakness is short cycle life.
Correct. Any battery made with zinc has this problem. Zinc tends to form
dendrities; needle-thin crystals that grow between the plates and short
out the battery after just a couple hundred cycles.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Victor Tikhonov wrote:
it only has legal status of corporation (with all its protection)
if it has minimum set of assets worth I think $50k (at least in
Oregon) others *must be able to* sue for if they choose to.
It's complicated; each state has different rules. Some states are easy,
some are hard. That's why lots of companies incorporate in Delaware,
regardless of where they actually reside (lax rules).
A subchapter-S corporation is little more than an official recognition
for tax purposes of a family business or a small partnership. It means
almost nothing as far as lawsuits are concerned. For larger traditional
corporations, a corporate charter won't let you dodge criminal negligence.
The main defenses against actually getting sued are a) don't make bad
mistakes, and b) don't have enough money to attract lawyers :-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Tom Hudson wrote:
I'm doing some battery charger repair and need some Vishay IL300-E
Optocouplers. I have not been able to find anyone with these available
in the quantities I'm looking for (about 10 of them). The big suppliers
don't want to deal with such a small quantity.
Does anyone know of an electronic supplier who has these things in stock
and will sell them in small quantities?
That's an unusual part. It's probably single-sourced, and so may always
be hard to get and expensive.
Maybe you can get some samples directly from Vishay. Call their rep and ask.
Maybe you can design in some other part; functionally, it could be
replaced with two matched optocouplers, with their LEDs both in series
and their collector-base junctions used as the photodiodes.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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