EV Digest 5970
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery boxes
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN Warp 8s)
by "Andrew Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: interpoles
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: AC and DC together?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: List for Porsche 914 conversions.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) re: vacuum cylinder
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) multiple chargers
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: LED brakelights
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: List for Porsche 914 conversions.
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN Warp 8s)
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: LED brakelights
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: LED brakelights
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: List for Porsche 914 conversions.
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: List for Porsche 914 conversions.
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: useful links on EV costs, surplus equipment
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) motor winding for eff, drive ? Freedom EV update
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: LED brakelights
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Need IL300-E IC
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: AC and DC together?
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Need IL300-E IC
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Newbie: What is the best way to provide A/C for an EV?
by "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Brake lights on regen
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jack wrote -
> Would it be fair to say where and how to put all the batteries in the
> car is the major effort?
>
Let's is it is *a* major effort...
First of all, if you use lead acid batteries, a 120 v system can weight up to
1440 lbs. You have to move them at least a couple times so that is an effort.
Then you have to figure where they will all go - how many in back, how many up
front, figure the optiminal configuration so that there is minimal voltage to
the neighboring cable, then you have to make the battery cables, put the cables
on. Do you have a battery monitoring system? If so, then those cables have to
be connected also. You have to run the cables up to the contactor, where do
you put the shunt, do you have an anderson disconnect for the battery pack or a
dis connect in the middle.
You also have to make them safe, put a cover of some sort on them so rain or
inquisitive fingers don't get zapped...
Yup, it is a major effort.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is that torque figure through a gearbox or off the motor shaft? I have a
very hard time believing that a 9" motor can provide that kind of shaft
torque. I'd also be worried about the keyed shaft. I'd love to be
disproven though as it would be amazing to see.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN
Warp 8s)
Hey Don
I just called John up being we havent talked in a while. He told me that
although the 8's haven't been dyno tested he believes they fall somewhere in
the 240 HP area. The 772 ft lbs of torque have been calculated and he feels
that's a pretty solid number to quote. Now he also stated that it would be
even higher with a stouter battery pack as even with his current Hawkers
he's battery limited 8^ )
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The Warp 8s will do
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Mike Sandman wrote:
> where can I find a better description of interpoles then this:
Any good engineering text on motors will cover them. But since we don't
make big motors in this country any more, you may have to look at older
books. The internet is too new; it is largely worthless for this. I find
the older, the better (i.e. the more nitty-gritty details they include :-)
thanks! looks like it's a trip to the library.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I think
theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(*) and any aircooled Porsche?
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2006 12:20:28 PM
Subject: List for Porsche 914 conversions.
Hi!
In the process of leaning about (and then starting) restoration &
conversion of a Porsche 914, I met with several others that were doing the
same or interested in learning about the process.
So, I've created a Google Group specifically for this purpose:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/914ev
If you're thinking of doing a 914-based(*) conversion, are in the process,
or have one thats up and running, or if you just want to listen in, I
invite you to join in! We'd love to hear from you!
The off-list discussion so far has been on the practical issues of
conversion, drivetrain selection, 914-specific restoration issues, and
914-specific battery mounting/rack issues, but I'm sure we'll branch out
in other areas, just like any other good list always does.
Steve
(*) Or any VW air-cooled, for that matter.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor,
The steel tank is $32. Aluminum is $45.
Reason, a little lighter, a bit less rust to fight.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who uses a Zivan with a bad boy?.
Does anyone use a Zivan, badboy, and a Lester?
I know the batteries, the lester and the badboy can handle it, but my
biggest concern is, can the Zivan handle such a situation. I don't know
electrical theorgy, and all electrical practice comes from.... Practice.
(just something to know for the rare occurence I would want to dump 30 amps
in for 1-2 hours (zivan 13 ,bad boy 7, & lester 10)
Thanks for any knowledge.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The truckers are ahead of the curve on led's but it means replacing
hardware. There are some 20 dollar 10 led lights that are very bright. The
replacement bulbs you are talking about are 20 dollars and the failure rate
is high. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: LED brakelights
> In an effort to minimize my 12V draw ( especially since I'm using a 25 amp
> Sevcon, which is barely enough, with a small aux battery for buffering)
I'm
> thinking about trying some LED brakelights.
>
> My current brakelights draw 5 amps ( for all three, including the upper
> bulb).
>
> There are several sellers of LED replacement bulbs ( Ebay seems to have
the
> cheapest) but I wonder how bright they are.
> In my case, the brake lights are dual filament bulbs ( I guess they have
> different number of LEDs come on for each "filament") so I would be saving
> some 12V power (but very little) anytime the headlights and tailights were
> on.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with LED car bulbs, and any vendor
> suggestons? My particular bulb (typical for modern cars, I believe) is a
> 7443. None of the vendors talks about their current draw, or how the
> current is controlled ( resistors, constant current control, etc..).
>
> It seems to me a poorly ( or, cheaply) designed LED bulb might vary in
> brightness a lot between 13.5 and 12 volts. - and, occasionally, my
system
> will probably be at about 12V for a short time when everything is on at
> once, the DC-DC is maxed out, and the aux battery is holding up the
voltage.
> So, it could be a problem if the brightness drops dramatically at 12
volts(
> or even a bit less) .
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Try the new Live Search today!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, October 5, 2006 11:55 am, David Dymaxion wrote:
> (*) and any aircooled Porsche?
Of course!
Steve
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2006 12:20:28 PM
> Subject: List for Porsche 914 conversions.
>
>
> Hi!
>
>
> In the process of leaning about (and then starting) restoration &
> conversion of a Porsche 914, I met with several others that were doing the
> same or interested in learning about the process.
>
> So, I've created a Google Group specifically for this purpose:
>
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/914ev
>
>
> If you're thinking of doing a 914-based(*) conversion, are in the
> process, or have one thats up and running, or if you just want to listen
> in, I invite you to join in! We'd love to hear from you!
>
> The off-list discussion so far has been on the practical issues of
> conversion, drivetrain selection, 914-specific restoration issues, and
> 914-specific battery mounting/rack issues, but I'm sure we'll branch out
> in other areas, just like any other good list always does.
>
> Steve
>
>
> (*) Or any VW air-cooled, for that matter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Andrew
I'm not sure but I believe motor (could be wrong being just the dumbass motor
guy, LMAO). Of course the Siamese8 doesn't have a standard keyed shaft no more!
In fact Matt Graham has had some shaft issues (as did John) with the keyed
shafts and pounding the motors as hard as they do. Regardless of where it's
calculated from, both cars are in fact, amazing to see!
John has lots of pics posted of the Siamese8 and the Dutchman shaft that was
plugged into it 8^ )
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
Sorry I can't confirm but I don't wanna bug John at work again 8^ P
Hope this helps.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Andrew Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is that torque figure through a gearbox or off the motor shaft? I have a
very hard time believing that a 9" motor can provide that kind of shaft
torque. I'd also be worried about the keyed shaft. I'd love to be
disproven though as it would be amazing to see.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: What is the torque/power rating of a TWIN Warp 9" (or TWIN
Warp 8s)
Hey Don
I just called John up being we havent talked in a while. He told me that
although the 8's haven't been dyno tested he believes they fall somewhere in
the 240 HP area. The 772 ft lbs of torque have been calculated and he feels
that's a pretty solid number to quote. Now he also stated that it would be
even higher with a stouter battery pack as even with his current Hawkers
he's battery limited 8^ )
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Don Cameron wrote:
>The Warp 8s will do
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.fleetoilandtrucksupply.com/fleetoil/dept.asp?s%5Fid=0&dept%5Fid=2220&WT%2Esvl=deptnav1
There is one 32 led for 20 dollars. Stop light. Groot (not sure of
spelling) is another source. These need to be mounted but they are a
bargain. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: LED brakelights
> SAFETY
> is the major reason to switch to LED brake lights.
> Normal filaments take around 0.1 to heat up and give light
> while the LEDs light up instantly.
> This means that following vehicles (which SHOULD keep their
> distance, right?) have 0.1 second more time to respond and
> also start braking.
> Since this time is taken off from the whole reaction process,
> when they travel at high velocity, it can mean that they stop
> several feet earlier when responding to LED lights than with
> the same response time and using glow bulbs.
> In short - a (small) percentage of light crashes is turned into
> near-hits, a percentage of mild crashes is turned into fender
> benders and some heavy crashes are turned into lighter crashes
> as the vehicle travels at lower speed due to the earlier
> reaction time.
> Power saving is not a target of car companies, but better styling
> and this safety issue is the main reason to go for LEDs.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:58 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights
>
>
> Boy have I had some experiences with the LED issue. It's a great idea
> however not all replacements are made the same. I first tried the typical
> truckstop / JC Whitney / AutoZone route as they have lots of bulbs for
> replacement however the vast majority of the LED drop in replacement lamps
> were either poor quality (twisted off at the neck when rotating in the
> socket, limited viewing angle <30, not nearly bright enough AND overly
> expensive. I have several trailers, box trucks etc and we experimented
with
> various brand LEDs. We found that the stock 1157 / 1156 bulbs work the
best
> when using the stock reflector/lense as the lense is what collects the
> available direct light and focuses it to the rear of the fixture.
>
> That said we were very happy with the LEDtronics lamps. They have more
leds
> per lamp and much higher brightness over the generic one in the market. It
> doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the dramatic difference in
power
> usage. The standard 1157 is 1200 hours and 2.1A at 12v the LEDtronics is
> 100,000 hours and 150mA. Difference in price is where you must decide is
it
> worth it. Stock 1157 ~ $0.75 and LED is $ 19.95.
>
> I think the safety is worth it. All of our trailers now use LEDs because
we
> have added extra lights and needed the lower current draw for the towing
> vehicle. The extra brightness was an added bonus. BUT only from the
> LEDtronics lamps. SO buyer beware when buying at harbor freight or similar
> retail shops.
>
> Pedroman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 1:20 PM
> Subject: LED brakelights
>
>
> > In an effort to minimize my 12V draw ( especially since I'm using a 25
amp
>
> > Sevcon, which is barely enough, with a small aux battery for buffering)
> > I'm thinking about trying some LED brakelights.
> >
> > My current brakelights draw 5 amps ( for all three, including the upper
> > bulb).
> >
> > There are several sellers of LED replacement bulbs ( Ebay seems to have
> > the cheapest) but I wonder how bright they are.
> > In my case, the brake lights are dual filament bulbs ( I guess they
have
> > different number of LEDs come on for each "filament") so I would be
saving
>
> > some 12V power (but very little) anytime the headlights and tailights
were
>
> > on.
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience with LED car bulbs, and any vendor
> > suggestons? My particular bulb (typical for modern cars, I believe) is
a
> > 7443. None of the vendors talks about their current draw, or how the
> > current is controlled ( resistors, constant current control, etc..).
> >
> > It seems to me a poorly ( or, cheaply) designed LED bulb might vary in
> > brightness a lot between 13.5 and 12 volts. - and, occasionally, my
> > system will probably be at about 12V for a short time when everything is
> > on at once, the DC-DC is maxed out, and the aux battery is holding up
the
> > voltage. So, it could be a problem if the brightness drops dramatically
at
>
> > 12 volts( or even a bit less) .
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Try the new Live Search today!
> >
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLM
> TAG
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
SuperFlux LEDs are pretty powerful and very high quality components (not
a finished device). Each one has several times more power than a common
T1 3/4 LED can create. They were designed with a wide viewing angle.
They're a flat 4-lead device which is fairly easy to mount. Its low
profile puts it further back in the taillight housing, which along with
its wide viewing angle makes it illuminate the entire output lens
surface much better, which leads to better light dispersal overall.
Actually SuperFlux LEDs are still quite cheap, just look on Mouser.
For the illumination variance problem, well there are several
solutions. One is to build a central voltage regulator. The power
level is not great if you can use separate wiring for just the LEDs
(which still need ballast resistors). Otherwise you can use a reg on
each device. There's a simple linear current reg that can be made with
a bipolar reg. SuperTex makes some good, cheap LED reg chips but they
still need a circuit built around them.
Danny
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
The truckers are ahead of the curve on led's but it means replacing
hardware. There are some 20 dollar 10 led lights that are very bright. The
replacement bulbs you are talking about are 20 dollars and the failure rate
is high. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: LED brakelights
In an effort to minimize my 12V draw ( especially since I'm using a 25 amp
Sevcon, which is barely enough, with a small aux battery for buffering)
I'm
thinking about trying some LED brakelights.
My current brakelights draw 5 amps ( for all three, including the upper
bulb).
There are several sellers of LED replacement bulbs ( Ebay seems to have
the
cheapest) but I wonder how bright they are.
In my case, the brake lights are dual filament bulbs ( I guess they have
different number of LEDs come on for each "filament") so I would be saving
some 12V power (but very little) anytime the headlights and tailights were
on.
Does anyone have any experience with LED car bulbs, and any vendor
suggestons? My particular bulb (typical for modern cars, I believe) is a
7443. None of the vendors talks about their current draw, or how the
current is controlled ( resistors, constant current control, etc..).
It seems to me a poorly ( or, cheaply) designed LED bulb might vary in
brightness a lot between 13.5 and 12 volts. - and, occasionally, my
system
will probably be at about 12V for a short time when everything is on at
once, the DC-DC is maxed out, and the aux battery is holding up the
voltage.
So, it could be a problem if the brightness drops dramatically at 12
volts(
or even a bit less) .
Thanks
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about any 9*4 based conversions?
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> (*) and any aircooled Porsche?
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2006 12:20:28 PM
> Subject: List for Porsche 914 conversions.
>
> Hi!
>
> In the process of leaning about (and then starting) restoration &
> conversion of a Porsche 914, I met with several others that were doing the
> same or interested in learning about the process.
>
> So, I've created a Google Group specifically for this purpose:
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/914ev
>
> If you're thinking of doing a 914-based(*) conversion, are in the process,
> or have one thats up and running, or if you just want to listen in, I
> invite you to join in! We'd love to hear from you!
>
> The off-list discussion so far has been on the practical issues of
> conversion, drivetrain selection, 914-specific restoration issues, and
> 914-specific battery mounting/rack issues, but I'm sure we'll branch out
> in other areas, just like any other good list always does.
>
> Steve
>
> (*) Or any VW air-cooled, for that matter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, October 5, 2006 12:34 pm, Dave Cover wrote:
> How about any 9*4 based conversions?
Hey, really, everyone is welcome. Feel free to join up and introduce
yourselves to the list. I think we're all especially interested in
"like-kind" conversions.
Steve
> David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>> (*) and any aircooled Porsche?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Steve Lacy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2006 12:20:28 PM
>> Subject: List for Porsche 914 conversions.
>>
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>>
>> In the process of leaning about (and then starting) restoration &
>> conversion of a Porsche 914, I met with several others that were doing
>> the same or interested in learning about the process.
>>
>> So, I've created a Google Group specifically for this purpose:
>>
>>
>> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/914ev
>>
>>
>> If you're thinking of doing a 914-based(*) conversion, are in the
>> process, or have one thats up and running, or if you just want to listen
>> in, I invite you to join in! We'd love to hear from you!
>>
>> The off-list discussion so far has been on the practical issues of
>> conversion, drivetrain selection, 914-specific restoration issues, and
>> 914-specific battery mounting/rack issues, but I'm sure we'll branch
>> out in other areas, just like any other good list always does.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> (*) Or any VW air-cooled, for that matter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
"I find it odd that you included the cost of tools, as if the tools were an
integral part of the EV such as the batteries, wire, charger, etc."
I included them because they are for the most part tools you probably wouldn't
have purchased if you weren't doing a conversion, and some may not even be
useful for doing anything else.
But I did categorize them because, as I said, not everyone needs all the same
stuff to do the job. they can be convieniently deleted to arrive at a new
mathematical figure that is more appropriate for the reader.
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Phil, Lee and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New motor winding for eff info needed? Freedom
EV update
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 09:55:57 -0500
>Phil Marino wrote:
>> Jerry -
>>
>> This is a design decision that cannot be best made by
>> asking for the opinions of people who don't know the
>> particulars of the vehicle involved. Some may say
>> "range" and some may say "performance" but those answers
>won't help you at all.
>
>Jerry, I agree completely with Phil. This is not a topic
>for an opinion survey; it should be made for sound
>engineering reasons, based on the facts.
I was asking the experts on the list, no everyones
opinion!!
And I asked a specific question, are series motors more eff
wound for low or higher rpm? I'd think that would be easy
for those who know motors.
>
>> The best plan would be to put together a model (a
>> spreadsheet, for example) of the car - that includes
>> weight, tire drag, air drag, battery and controller
>> characteristics, etc. Then, try several different motor
>> windings in the model (and different gear ratios) and see
>> what happens as far as performance, required motor
>current, power consumption at a range of speeds, and so
>forth.
>
>That's where I'd start, too. The challenge is that you
>don't have real data for most of these numbers, so you'd
>have to guess. This makes the model a patchwork of guesses
>, and so not very accurate. But, it's better than the
>guesses of uninformed strangers!
That's a pretty easy guess or calculation as I have
been using the Ewoody for 10 yrs before it died. I can do it
in my head. I just need to know the most eff rpm? I'll build
the driveline to that.
>
>The spreadsheet model will give you a range of possible
>ratios that could produce acceptable performance. I'd get
>2 or 3 sets of belts and sprockets so you can try them on
>the real car.
Again this is easy for me as I've been trying to teach
those here the concept of tractive effort for yrs. What this
is, is the actual torque from the wheel to the road. It's
motor torque x gearing x tire radius - eff losses.
With a series motor, you can have it wound either
10amp/ftlb at 3600rpm or 5amps/ft lb at 1800 rpm MOL? Both
are the same power because you need twice as many ftlbs at
1800 rpm?
I know MOL the power I need so easy to start there and
work backward to the motor to see what I'll need there.
>
>If you're ordering a custom motor, I'd also suggest having
>them provide a tap on the field coils. Or if cheaper,
>order two different sets of field coils, or even two
>different motors.
>
>You'll need those extra parts later. You're going to run
>into the same situation the old CitiCars did -- they built
>them in Florida which is flat as a pancake. But they sold
>them to people in hilly or even mountainous areas. The
>motors overheated and burned out. So, you want to have a
>motor and/or sprockets on the shelf for that customer, too.
Now Lee, you talked me into going with one motor
saying it would work!! Make up your mind ;^D
Before that I was going 2 motors series/parallel for
extra starting torque. more cooling area and still leaning
torwards them but I'll give the L91 size D+D motor a try on
the prototype to make reverse, ect easier, cheaper. If it's
not good enough, I'll switch back to 2 motors in the
production batch.
But an A89 size GE from a Citi-car that weighed 50 lbs
did the Ewoody well and to 60 mph. And it has much more drag
than the Freedom EV will have by about twice probably. So a
70% larger L91 size motor should work for it in most places.
The 2 motor set up is for mountain areas, long distance
cruising or towing a trailer. Even the Ewoody I could tow a
trailer and did many times to get stacks of plywood,,
selling at the flea market, ect, 500 to 700 lbs loads! That
was really EV abuse! But it did it without complaining ;^D.
There will probably be 3 or 4
motor/controller/battery options or the owner can put in
their own. It's really open space back there so almost any
motor/s can be put back there.
And I'll encourage owners to gear it for lower top
speed than the stock 80mph so it's better at hill climbing
but more important, keeps down the amps needed, increasing
range.
And the pulleys, Gates Polychain, don't have to be
on the shelf as any NAPA, Motion Industries, the same
company really, amoung many others have them in stock or
next day service and the belts too. Better prices at most
places though Motion Ind is good if you convince them you
are a business.
So back to my question, is a series motor more, less
or no different eff wound for say 1800 rpm or 3600 rpm?
Would it be worth splitting the fields so they can
be series/paralleled? The reverse the armature?
I've made the rear sprocket from composites though
production ones will have alum ones. If they can be smaller
by designing, running the motor slower, we can use steel
ones for longer life without unspring weight penalty.
Went out and bought the airspring shocks, ball
joints, steel for the suspension, Prius tires, ect today.
Things are moving along nicely now. In should be on it's
wheels in about 10 days I hope. Motor/controller soon after
that.
Finally decided on 5" round headlights as I
couldn't find any high and low beam combo's smaller that are
reasonably priced and replacement parts can be found
everywhere for. Now just need to find adjusting brackets for
them !! The EV drive, body/chassis is easy compared to
finding all the litte stuff needed to put an EV into
prduction!
Jerry Dycus
>-- Ring the bells that still can ring
>Forget the perfect offering
>There is a crack in everything
>That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
>--
>Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
>leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil Wrote:
"Does anyone have any experience with LED car bulbs, and any vendor
suggestons?" <snip> It seems to me a poorly ( or, cheaply) designed LED bulb
might vary in brightness a lot between 13.5 and 12 volts."
I'm using LED replacements for dual-filament bulbs on my fiero. I got them
from www.superbrightleds.com. They have almost no change in brightness when
the 12V battery is low, but the flashing frequency changes.
They are a nice design, with LED's oriented both straight out and around the
edge to utilize the existing reflector. They accomplish dual brightness by
lighting all of the LED's at two brightness levels. there must be a controller
IC inside the bulb. Works very nicely.
Used them for backup bulbs, too, and used a low power neon tube to outline the
"pontiac" emblem.
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll try Vishay; maybe I can get some samples.
The trick is, this is part of the isolated voltage feedback circuit and
whatever I put in there MUST be a good match so the charger's logic
circuitry is getting an accurate reading of the pack voltage. This
particular component has apparently been replaced before -- You can see
where it has been desoldered and replaced by a chip with a datecode 5
years newer than the other ICs on the board. And they replaced the
IL300-E with a cross-referenced part from another manufacturer, so
apparently they had some trouble getting the part as well....
-Tom
Lee Hart wrote:
Tom Hudson wrote:
I'm doing some battery charger repair and need some Vishay IL300-E
Optocouplers. I have not been able to find anyone with these
available in the quantities I'm looking for (about 10 of them). The
big suppliers don't want to deal with such a small quantity.
Does anyone know of an electronic supplier who has these things in
stock and will sell them in small quantities?
That's an unusual part. It's probably single-sourced, and so may
always be hard to get and expensive.
Maybe you can get some samples directly from Vishay. Call their rep
and ask.
Maybe you can design in some other part; functionally, it could be
replaced with two matched optocouplers, with their LEDs both in series
and their collector-base junctions used as the photodiodes.
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't think saving money was a priority:
>> The DC motor and controller would be 10,000 the Siemens system cost
>> 15,000 total cost 25,000
ElectroAuto prices a complete AC55 conversion kit at $10,000
Just the motor is $1,400.
I've considered building a controller for the AC55 motor, and probably
will, but I'll put it on the top of my todo list for $10K. :)
Jack
Lee Hart wrote:
Jack Murray wrote:
But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I think
theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
6. I am converting my car into an electric or hybrid electric vehicle.
Can I buy one of your motors for my project?
No. We only sell motors and electronics to original equipment
manufacturers or their suppliers. However, the following company provides
products to EV enthusiasts:
KTA Services Inc.
Electric Vehicle Components and Systems since 1984
http://www.kta-ev.com
Top
> It says that KTA supplies products to EV enthusiasts. KTA supplies
> products, but not UQM products.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of torich1
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:01 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
>
>
> This umq web site say they sell thru KTA!
>
> http://www.uqm.com/about/FAQ.html#8
>
> > UQM does not sell through KTA.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of torich1
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:19 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
> >
> >
> > They say you can buy their product at http://www.kta-ev.com BUT! KTA
> makes
> > no mention of this product in their catalog....
> > Rich Va
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andrew Roberts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:08 PM
> > Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
> >
> >
> > > yeah, just buy 100 of them. LOL.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:33 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
> > >
> > >
> > > does anyone know a way to source one at a reasonable price? Seems
> > > like a great solution.
> > > On Oct 4, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Andrew Roberts wrote:
> > >
> > > > The batteries are from www.altairnano.com, and you forgot one major
> > > > thing
> > > > about the UQM motors: they weigh half as much as the Enova (or
> > > > solectria or
> > > > siemens) systems at the same power level. They're also physically
> > > > smaller.
> > > > I know that was one of the driving factors in Phoenix's decision to
> > > > switch.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Behalf Of Don Cameron
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:22 PM
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Mark, Phoenix has been around for a while and a few years back
was
> > > > planning on using motor/controllers from Enova. You might want to
> > > > ask if
> > > > they have delivered any vehicles yet before counting on a vehicle
> > > > two years
> > > > out. The UQM motors are very interesting as they have big torque
> > > > and a wide
> > > > power band. I know that in quantities of 10 or so, the price of
> > > > the UQM
> > > > might drop to about half. Still pretty pricey compared to some of
the
> > > > motors available today.
> > > >
> > > > What batteries and how many are they planning on using?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> > > >
> > > > see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > > > Behalf Of MARK DUTKO
> > > > Sent: October 4, 2006 11:05 AM
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
> > > >
> > > > I spoke to an executive at Phoenix Motor Cars who said the target
> > > > price for
> > > > the SUV with 150-200 mile range would be $45K. The UQM drive
> > > > according to my
> > > > conversations with them is about $28K with controller, and the
> > > > batteries
> > > > must be at least $15K, all purchased in one unit quantities. So,
> > > > $44k just
> > > > in batteries and drive and it will be sold for $1k more as a
complete
> > > > vehicle. If this can be delivered in a quality package in a year it
> > > > will say
> > > > much to how fast things are moving. The UQM drives are made to
> > > > order in
> > > > Colorado and I think the SUV comes from Korea but not positive. I
> > > > may just
> > > > have to forget my conversion and buy something new in a year or
> > > > two, but I
> > > > really don't want an SUV! Perhaps the R1 will be available?
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date:
> 10/3/2006
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.13/463 - Release Date:
10/4/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.13/463 - Release Date: 10/4/2006
>
>
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
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* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
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------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C6E89D.A5C2BBB0"; type="text/plain--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 13:46:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Need IL300-E IC
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Tom,
I have IL300-F that you can have for free, just a
couple of dollars for shipping.
How many pieces do you need?
I think the gain may be slightly different between the
-E and -F, but this could be compensated for on the
board.
Let me know
Rod
--- Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'll try Vishay; maybe I can get some samples.
>
> The trick is, this is part of the isolated voltage
> feedback circuit and
> whatever I put in there MUST be a good match so the
> charger's logic
> circuitry is getting an accurate reading of the pack
> voltage. This
> particular component has apparently been replaced
> before -- You can see
> where it has been desoldered and replaced by a chip
> with a datecode 5
> years newer than the other ICs on the board. And
> they replaced the
> IL300-E with a cross-referenced part from another
> manufacturer, so
> apparently they had some trouble getting the part as
> well....
>
> -Tom
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > Tom Hudson wrote:
> >> I'm doing some battery charger repair and need
> some Vishay IL300-E
> >> Optocouplers. I have not been able to find
> anyone with these
> >> available in the quantities I'm looking for
> (about 10 of them). The
> >> big suppliers don't want to deal with such a
> small quantity.
> >>
> >> Does anyone know of an electronic supplier who
> has these things in
> >> stock and will sell them in small quantities?
> >
> > That's an unusual part. It's probably
> single-sourced, and so may
> > always be hard to get and expensive.
> >
> > Maybe you can get some samples directly from
> Vishay. Call their rep
> > and ask.
> >
> > Maybe you can design in some other part;
> functionally, it could be
> > replaced with two matched optocouplers, with their
> LEDs both in series
> > and their collector-base junctions used as the
> photodiodes.
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic
> Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power
> & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden
> Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station
> Restoration
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Newbie: What is the best way to provide A/C for an EV?
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 13:51:59 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi,
I'm interested in converting to an EV and wanted to know what would be the best
way to provide A/C in an EV?
Would you buy a plug in air conditioner or just run the original A/C compressor
off a second shaft of a motor?
All your help is wonderfully appreciated!
Sincerely,
Adan Vielma
Lewis & Clark College
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 02:20:59 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Subject: Re: Brake lights on regen
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
My Dodge TEVan has regen in Low range that starts about 1 to 1.5 seconds
after you let off the accelerator. It does NOT turn on the brake lights. In
High range when you let off the accelerator it coasts until pressing the
brake pedal. The brake system has a normal brake light switch and the regen
system has a pressure actuator for the regen. The harder the braking - the
higher the regen. Regen can be as high as 150A into a nominal 180V pack.
BTW: I don't know of any vehicle that activates the brake lights when you
let off the accelerator or downshift and use the engine to brake with. Even
tractor-trailers don't have brake lights connected to the "Jake-Brake".
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
'88 Fiero ESE
Original Message:
-----------------
From: Electric Vehicle Discussion List [email protected]
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 20:44:24 PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV digest 5966
EV Digest 5966
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Our litigious society
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: article: First energy-autonomous vehicle -for production
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Our litigious society
by Patrick Maston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV digest 5961
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Power Designers May Soon Think Zinc
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by "torich1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) motor
by "Jim Sylvester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: motor
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Phoenix motors/UQM Drive
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Electric Bikes Now Legal in Ontario
by Darryl McMahon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: supercapacitors
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: interpoles
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV digest 5961
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: motor
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Subject: Re: Zilla controls backordered? - range or speed
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: New motor winding for eff info needed? Freedom EV update
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Brake lights on regen
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: series wound motor
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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