EV Digest 5976
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: question to victor
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: AC and DC together?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with automatic
transmission?
by "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with automatic
transmission?
by "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: question to victor
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: AC and DC together?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
by "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: multiple chargers
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) towing/coasting in ev's: motor question
by "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Dakota conversion update
by "Hartsell, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: LED brakelights
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) lee's emeter companion?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: AC and DC together?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) OT: Digest Delivery anomalies
by Patrick Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Adan Vielma (Re: Is there any limit to an EV's speed ... )
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jake,
If I see an email of my customer, I *always* respond.
If I didn't respond to an email of a stranger asking something
first time, my apology. It is bad excuse, but if I will answer
*every* email people ask (especially if the info they ask is on the web
and they don't do their home work), I not only won't have time to
run business, but won't have time eat and sleep.
So [normally] I choose to answer emails I know there is no answer for
on the web page. But, again, if it's existing customer I
answer no matter what. There is nothing I can do if
email genuenly didn't reach me for whatever reason.
As you say, there is no reason for me selectively single out
someone and not to respond on purpose - I'm always open
to questions and glad to provide info if I have it.
Victor
Jake Oshins wrote:
Victor usually doesn't respond to my e-mail either. He claims that he
never sees it, which I believe, as there's no reason not to. He always
seems to see stuff posted here, though.
- Jake Oshins
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrie, Robin
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: question to victor
Just a quick one.. I tried to contact you off list regarding motor
specs, your [EMAIL PROTECTED] address, but ive had no reply..did it get
through?
Thanks..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
All about money? Well maybe it is since I do not want to spend 60,000 on
Brusa motors and controllers. Where do you find an AC motor that you can also
get a controller for that would equal the power of the below? 30,000 would not
be a bad deal for two motors and controllers.
How about $25k for two systems + free DC/DC converters?
Contact me off list if you're interested. We can talk about
it on the next OEVA meeting as well.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a Fiberfab Avenger on Ebay that is only bid up to $305.00 at the
moment. Very rough but could be a great project for the right sort of
enthusiast.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190037975255&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geopilot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 9:41 AM
Subject: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
http://www.fiberfab.us/default.htmThis kitcar looks incredible and they
claim $5700 price.
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--- Begin Message ---
Good grief!
I haven't seen anything this primative in the Kitcar world for about 20
years!
A supposed GT40 (looks like the short lived and mostly unloved Mk3 roadgoing
version) with not much more than a ladder frame? It had better be cheap.
Try;
http://www.tornadosportscars.com/MainPage.html
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks so much for your comments & advice Mr. Paschke!
Sincerely,
Adan Vielma
Lewis & Clark College
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with
automatic transmission?
I think it really depends on your transmission and the motor you wish to
use. A lot of people use a manual tranny without a clutch pedal. It
has only been 2 or 3weeks since the last discussion on that topic.
I am starting out with an automatic transmission because my shunt wound
motor has an idle, the tranny came with the car, and I don't mind that
it shortens the range a little.
I may change my mind after I get it together, but the rabbit tranny is
easily replaced and there are plenty manual trannies available at the
nearby salvage yards.
I think it comes down to your abilities and willingness to experiment.
This is not well charted territory in the EV world.
Stephen Paschke
AR Daemon, DAR, ERISA, and IPI support, TIAA-CREF Denver
Senior Consultant
Keane, Inc.
Office 303-607-2993
Cell 303-204-9280
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adan Vielma
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 6:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with
automatic transmission?
Hi,
I'm interested in converting a car to electric and would like to have a
car that doesn't involve stick shifting while driving, so I was looking
at either converting cars with automatic transmission or just "jamming"
(aka keeping) the manual transmission in a gear (like 3rd) and using
that all the time.
SO, Is it actually feasible to convert a car with automatic transmission
and keep it?
I'd be interested in doing that as then we'd be able to use any car we'd
like that may not have a manual version of itself.
Thanks so much for your help with this!
Sincerely,
Adan Vielma
Lewis & Clark College
**************************************************************
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**************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks so much for your very detailed reply Mr. Wiench!
We really appreciate you taking the time to help explain the topic to us!
Sincerely,
Adan Vielma
Lewis & Clark College
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with
automatic transmission?
You can with a modified transmission. You do not have to use a torque
converter, unless you want to idle the motor. In place of the torque
converter, a drive shaft bolts to the motor coupler flange and drives the
transmission pump.
A manual body value is use that have external controls to release the pump
pressure with a clutch type pedal.
The transmission should be RPM control instead of Torque control type and
should increase the 1st and 2nd gear ratios to about 3.5:1 for 1st and
2.0:1 for 2nd. You will have to change the differential gear from the low
2's:1 to higher ratio in the 4's:1 or more.
You can select each gear like a manual and the transmission will stay in
that gear no matter what the rpm is at (no torque control unit) just like
a standard transmission.
The flexplate must be external balance which is a heavy duty racing type,
that can with stand higher torque which is heavier than the stock sheet
metal type. It is designed to create a higher inertia force for start up.
A high performance clutch plates, hubs, planetary sets, servos and pumps
should be used, because you are starting to provide load on these units a
1 rpm instead at the 500 idle rpm.
If you are replacing a existing transmission, these transmission can be
made to the same length to fit the existing space.
Then you have a array of shift controls to operated this unit.
These transmission are built up for racing. One company that does this is
TCI.com .
Thirty years ago, we tested out a standard transmission with a torque
converter and worn out the clutches in with 1000 miles. Today you can
used line locks systems, torque converter lock up units, torque converter
eliminator units, racing clutches and companies that specialize in these
units.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Storm Connors" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Newbie EV Question: Is it possible to convert a car with
automatic transmission?
Sure you can. I'd suggest you do a little research on
how an automatic actually works before you attempt it.
After you do that, you'll probably come to the
conclusion that it isn't worth the effort.
--- Adan Vielma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm interested in converting a car to electric and
> would like to have a car that doesn't involve stick
> shifting while driving, so I was looking at either
> converting cars with automatic transmission or just
> "jamming" (aka keeping) the manual transmission in a
> gear (like 3rd) and using that all the time.
>
> SO, Is it actually feasible to convert a car with
> automatic transmission and keep it?
>
> I'd be interested in doing that as then we'd be able
> to use any car we'd like that may not have a manual
> version of itself.
>
> Thanks so much for your help with this!
> Sincerely,
> Adan Vielma
> Lewis & Clark College
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
I think it is highly likely that your server spam filter is excluding valid
email. I use a client based one and it often takes valid email messages and
puts them in the "junk mail suspect" folder. Do you have this option with
your server based spam filter?
Feel free to call me and we can discuss.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: October 6, 2006 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: question to victor
Jake,
If I see an email of my customer, I *always* respond.
If I didn't respond to an email of a stranger asking something first time,
my apology. It is bad excuse, but if I will answer
*every* email people ask (especially if the info they ask is on the web and
they don't do their home work), I not only won't have time to run business,
but won't have time eat and sleep.
So [normally] I choose to answer emails I know there is no answer for on the
web page. But, again, if it's existing customer I answer no matter what.
There is nothing I can do if email genuenly didn't reach me for whatever
reason.
As you say, there is no reason for me selectively single out someone and not
to respond on purpose - I'm always open to questions and glad to provide
info if I have it.
Victor
Jake Oshins wrote:
> Victor usually doesn't respond to my e-mail either. He claims that he
> never sees it, which I believe, as there's no reason not to. He
> always seems to see stuff posted here, though.
>
> - Jake Oshins
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Lawrie, Robin
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:45 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: question to victor
>
> Just a quick one.. I tried to contact you off list regarding motor
> specs, your [EMAIL PROTECTED] address, but ive had no reply..did it
> get through?
>
> Thanks..
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason I chose Siemens over AC55 was because:
- just too darn big for a sedan (better for a full size truck or van)
- its power to weight ratio was not as good as the Siemens
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jack Murray
Sent: October 6, 2006 9:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: AC and DC together?
Death to All Spammers wrote:
>>Don, if you are serious, I'd be happy to build you a fast car.
>>I was considering building a C5 corvette with the AC55 motor, it would
>>go into the trans tunnel and drives the differential, bats would be in
>>the engine compartment.
>>I'm don't see what two motors really does for you, the speed
>>limitation is the batteries ability to delivery enough power to the
motor(s).
>>A big motor or two won't go any faster if the batteries can't run them.
>
>
> But the AC55 peaks at 78kw - how fast of a car will that make? That's
> half the kw of the smallest Zilla!
Well it looks like the Warp 11 is only rated at (75Kw) 95hp at 144 volts
(according to EV USA) and weighs 229lbs
The 78Kw for AC55 is at 300 volts, most of these type of motors can do 480v
so if the AC55 can do that, looks like 128Kw I suspect the Azure controller
can't handle that voltage.
In any case the power has to move the vehicle, long smokey burnouts may look
cool, but don't make you fast.
I don't think Don is going to have big fat wrinkle-wall slicks in his little
street Opel. Actually, I think 4WD is the way to go, almost went to look at
a AWD Talon with bad motor, but I can't build anything else until I sell my
existing racecar.
Jack
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi again,
I was contemplating the option of going "direct drive" with the EV I'm planning
to build and am interested in knowing:
Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
(Holding other things constant like batteries or different car weights / sizes.)
If we were to stick the car into a gear like 3rd, do you think we could still
reach 100mph or so, and within ~20 seconds? I almost feel like I don't fully
understand the direct drive option and speed limitations (or even if direct
drive still involves shifting gears...I believe not?)
As always, thanks for your kindness and answers! You guys rock!
Sincerely,
Adan Vielma
Lewis & Clark College
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well regardless how primitive it looks terrific which is something
sorely lacking in the ev world.
Electrify one of those and [EMAIL PROTECTED] likely electricfy a lot more of the
population rather than hybrid turtles or 20 yr old roadsters as fun as
they may be.
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:32 am, Paul Compton wrote:
Good grief!
I haven't seen anything this primative in the Kitcar world for about 20
years!
A supposed GT40 (looks like the short lived and mostly unloved Mk3
roadgoing version) with not much more than a ladder frame? It had
better be cheap.
Try;
http://www.tornadosportscars.com/MainPage.html
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ben,
With both the truck and car I've used the on-board and off-board chargers
at the same time. I believe I've also used the badboy variac charger with
them at the same time (to boost a sickly runt), but don't quote me on that!
The truck has a 13 amp Zivan on-board, and a FrankenLester off-board for
bulk charging, which humps up to 30 amps on it's own. The car has on-board
individual 5 amp Soneil chargers, and for bulk charging I use the 144 volt
FrankenLester, along with a 48 volt FrankenLester with a pack tap. I've
posted about this before, so check the archives. Of course, Bruce Parmenter
puts my bulk charging to shame! Got to get back to reading posts, as the
EVDL has averaged 111 posts per day over the last two weeks...
50,000 plus pure eelectric miles on the buggies, and a countin',
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.info/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, Colorado
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenage daughter)
1989 GM (General Murderers of the pure EV!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa
only!)
2004 Toyota Prius (for Ma, and Pa if Ma is a supervising!)
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 14:52:18 -0400
>
>Who uses a Zivan with a bad boy?.
>
>Does anyone use a Zivan, badboy, and a Lester?
>
>I know the batteries, the lester and the badboy can handle it, but my
>biggest concern is, can the Zivan handle such a situation. I don't know
>electrical theorgy, and all electrical practice comes from.... Practice.
>
>(just something to know for the rare occurence I would want to dump 30 amps
>in for 1-2 hours (zivan 13 ,bad boy 7, & lester 10)
>
>Thanks for any knowledge.
>
>Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have seen a couple of warnings about towing evs, in gear, it seems. I
assume if towing the vehicle in its highest gear, and you tow it at a speed
below the ev's top speed for that gear, then no damage would be done to the
motor (and obviously, don't go near that top speed)
I assume damage results when the motor spins faster than its typical
5000-6000, maybe 6200 or 6400, top rpm (Advanced DC motor, 8", say (is the top
speed greater for the 9" motor?).
If the car is in neutral, does any motor damage occur ?
It seems that esp. if the batteries are disconnected, via switch or
breaker, etc., from the circuit, nothing electrical can be going on in a
typical series wound motor (it's not magnetized,etc.), so the
only likely damage would be from the motor spinning faster than its limit of
6000 or so rpm?
(so, when coasting during regular use, the spinning motor could, with
proper shunt arrangement,
act as a generator for regen; this energy, related to the back emf generated,
is otherwise not recaptured during normal, non-regen mode coasting; similarly,
when being towed but with the batteries connected, there may be some current
draw (maybe not, I suspect not), right? Does the electrical behavior of this
cause any problem for towing, or is it mostly the mechanical prblems from
overspeeding it?)
Lots of questions, some perhaps with a linguistic representation belying
their complete nonbasis
in physical reality, but what's the point of dumb questions, anyway, than to
pierce the veil of unreality
and bring understanding (no, I'm not a buddhist or anything, just too much time
on a Friday afternoon, and, as Steve martin, a philosophy major himself once
said: "The trick is to take just enough philosophy to mess you up for the rest
of your life.").
Thanks for any insights
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adan Vielma wrote:
> Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
You need to be clear on what 'direct' drive means in your application.
Often people use the term to refer to any drivetrain that eliminates the
need for shifting (either removing the tranny entirely, or locking it in
a single gear, or replacing it with a single fixed-reduction ratio
gearbox that cannot be shifted). Sometimes, however, (and probably
strictly speaking) direct drive refers to a drivetrain where the motor
shaft and axle shaft(s) spin at the same speed and/or are directly
connected together.
Usually, going direct drive implies using a custom single speed gearbox
(for FWD applications) or eliminating the tranny altogether
(front-engine RWD).
If you are considering a FWD vehicle, then the key consideration becomes
how are you going to replace the differential function of the stock
transaxle if you remove the transaxle entirely? You will need some
means of connecting the motor's output to the pair of drive axles, and
some sort of differential action will be required.
If you are considering a RWD vehicle, then things are a bit easier since
you can eliminate the transmission while retaining the stock
differntial/rear-end.
In either case the limit to the EV's top speed is the maximum motor RPM.
In the RWD case, the differential typically provides reduction on the
order of 3-4:1 between the motor RPM and the wheel RPM (i.e. the motor
will be spinning 3-4x faster than the drive axles). So, you need to
determine the axle RPM at your desired top speed, and then apply the
actual ratio of your differntial to that to find the motor RPM at the
desired top speed.
As long at this RPM is within the range of what the motor can survive
(typically <6000RPM for our common DC motors, 9000-12000RPM for most EV
AC motors), then you know the motor can *survive* the desired speed.
There is no guarantee, however, that the motor will actually be able to
push the vehicle up to this speed. You would need to consult the motor
specs/plots to get an idea if the motor can develop the required power
at the required RPM or not.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adan, when you say "direct drive," do you mean the motor directly
turning the wheel, or do you mean the motor turning the wheel through a
reduction gear?
If you don't have the reduction gear, your motor will not be able to
turn very fast. For example, my car does 984 revolutions per mile. So
at 60mph, the motor would be turning only at 984 RPM. With a 4.2:1
reduction gear, however, the motor would be turning at 4132 RPM, which
is where a lot of EV motors are most efficient.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It has been awhile since I have updated the list on my conversion
progress. So here goes. First I am converting a 1991 Dodge Dakota
pickup. I finished the rear battery boxes about two weeks ago and just
finished the front battery box this past weekend. I decided to make my
front battery box where it would bolt into the frame so that if I needed
to remove it for any reason I could remove the batteries and then unbolt
the box and get it out of the way. Btw, it sets on top of the original
truck frame so I feel like it will be well supported for the weight. I
got the adapter kit in about three to four weeks ago for the great folks
at Canev. Boy, Randy is good. I tried a dry run, bolting up the
adapter, clutch kit and then mounting everything to the transmission the
next weekend and everything went together perfectly. I also made the
motor mounts while I had the motor installed. It was very hard to pull
the motor back out of the truck but I am going to stick to my plan. I
am planning on taking the truck to the painter next week to get the cab
and front-end painted. We have decided on painting it white for now.
They are also going to paint the engine compartment, that is why I took
the motor back out. I have all my parts together and setting on my work
bench in my garage so that when the truck comes out of the paint shop I
can start putting it together for good, I hope. Also I was able to use
the original motor mounts from the gas engine for my motor so the motor
will have some flexibility if it is needed. I will put some torque rods
on the top of the motor to prevent movement but that should still allow
the motor to flex when needed. I am also planning on not using the
original bed because it is very heavy. I have gathered some aluminum
material from a local scrap yard that I will make a flat bed for the
truck with. The material used to be 11" wide bleacher seats. They were
30' long so I am able to cut them to any size that I want. I have a
friend that can weld aluminum for me so that should not be a problem. I
am taking my time because I am planning on putting this truck in some
local car shows and maybe even a parade.
I am using a warp 9" motor with a Curtis 1231C-8601 controller. I am
planning on a 120 volt battery pack for now but that could change. I
have been reading all of the email on this list for about 6 months now
and you guys are great. I have gathered a lot of information just from
reading and asking a few questions. I am hoping to have the EV grin
within the next month or two. Keep up the good work guys.
Thanks,
Fred
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the car aftermarket companies have duplicated most types, since the young
car enthusiasts started to use them to decorate their cars. The fiero uses 4
wedge base bulbs for the interior lights, but they were 90 degrees to the
reflector, as you say the taillights are, so a single high output LED
replacement would not work. With construction of a new bezel, It was possible
to use the wedge bases that are connected by wires to a panel of 24 LEDs. If
you get them in wrong, they just don't work - no fuse blowing. That might work
for you, but would require special mounting for your tailights.
David Brandt
----- Original Message ----
From: Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: David Brandt <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 6, 2006 9:44:23 AM
Subject: Re: LED brakelights
Now you got me on a mad search again. The last time I tried led lights
for my S10 their polarity was not marked and installing them meant
blowing fuses to find this out. The S10 requires side firing leds in
order to direct the light out the back of the tail light lens. These
guys have the first side facing 3157 wedge base lamps I've seen. Other
brands have a few side firing leds, but most are orientated to face
the end, which would lit up the side of my tail light lens, not the
back of it. The ones from Autolumination look to be 100% side firing.
This is perfect for the sideways mounted bulbs in the 1994 S10
tailights that use a reflector to guide the light towards the rear of
the tail light lens. I've not tried these yet, but if they are not too
tall I think they are a decent shot at an led replacement bulb. I
wrote the owner and will see what they say about the height. I could
also yank the tail light lens and check for clearance.
They are the Light Tower 1 and Light Tower 2 type leds bulbs found here.
http://autolumination.com/3157_3156.htm
Mike
PS This research has also found that there are led bulbs available for
the dash as well. My bulbs in the dash have lasted just a couple
thousand miles before burning out again. So an led replacement might
be the ticket.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can calculate this based upon:
max RPM of motor
wheel diameter
overall gear ratio
There is a spreadsheet on my site that will help you out. See the "drive
RPM to vehicle speed spreadsheet"
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_IndexDriveSystem.html
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Adan Vielma
Sent: October 6, 2006 12:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
Hi again,
I was contemplating the option of going "direct drive" with the EV I'm
planning to build and am interested in knowing:
Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
(Holding other things constant like batteries or different car weights /
sizes.)
If we were to stick the car into a gear like 3rd, do you think we could
still reach 100mph or so, and within ~20 seconds? I almost feel like I don't
fully understand the direct drive option and speed limitations (or even if
direct drive still involves shifting gears...I believe not?)
As always, thanks for your kindness and answers! You guys rock!
Sincerely,
Adan Vielma
Lewis & Clark College
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
Any news on the emeter companion?
Ben
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--- Begin Message ---
Or if you've got an extra $16,000 lying around, try one of these kits:
http://www.agnus.sk/_mirror/k1/menu.php?menu=attack_menu.htm&id=attack-roofset.htm
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
Not sure what year Corvette you have in mind, but the dressed motor alone is
600+ lbs. Minus gas tank (~100 lbs), radiator, and exhaust, and with lighter
seats, and I think your glider weight would be closer to 2200 lbs rather than
2500 lbs. You can save alot of weight putting in a plastic rear window in some
of the hatch models.
>From looking at tables of engine weights, a rule of thumb I came up with is
>gas engines weigh about 75 lbs / cylinder.
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2006 11:34:28 PM
Subject: Re: AC and DC together?
Hello Jack
I am serious and I am really up for building something that is fun to drive.
I looked at the Corvette 3100 pounds or so and about 100 other cars that I
thought should weigh less. I found the weight of all of them unacceptable. The
corvette I am guessing would be around 2500 pounds without the ICE and as an
EV adds 1000 to 1200 or more over the 2500. Would a single Solectria A55
motor make a 3600 pound vehicle fast? The Force weighed 2200 pounds and no one
would call them fast. The regen would stop you fast though I hardly ever used
the brakes and this is going down steep hills.
I have considered one of my several 1955 Chevrolet cars and they weighed
from the factory 3100 pounds and you lose at least 600 pounds taking out the
engine and cast iron powerglide. This would be about the same as the Corvette
but about as aerodynamic as a billboard.
Even the Vega weighs 2400 with an aluminum block and the Chevette is 2000. I
went into this before but I found several cars around 1970 to 1972 that I
should weigh between 1200 to 1500 without just the motors and transmissions. I
have gathered up several and am looking them over to see how I can customize
the body and convert them to an EV. This is why I was not to concerned about
having an extra motor and controller I have five bodies to play with. If the
two do not work out I can just power one of the others.
I agree with you the two motors without enough power would be a bad idea. I
think the Hawker is a better battery then the Optima at least what I have
seen on their DOD and cycle results. I had a hard time finding very much real
information on the Optima. Neither is a bargain when you consider their cycle
life. The Valance battery has a much longer life and would be a good battery
for a high voltage system pulling less amps. I like that it would be so easy
to do rather than the A123 that would need one to build a BMS for.
I started out thinking a single motor AC motor with a very light car but by
the time you start adding up what everything weighs it is more like 2600 to
2800 pounds and that might be an optimistic weight.
So it would not be in the same class as say the AC Propulsion tzero that
weighs under 2000 pounds that uses just one AC motor. It is kind of hard for
me
to go with the idea that a 3600 pound vehicle that is almost double the weight
of a tzero is going to be fast.
Don
In a message dated 10/5/2006 5:02:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Don, if you are serious, I'd be happy to build you a fast car.
I was considering building a C5 corvette with the AC55 motor, it would
go into the trans tunnel and drives the differential, bats would be in
the engine compartment.
I'm don't see what two motors really does for you, the speed limitation
is the batteries ability to delivery enough power to the motor(s).
A big motor or two won't go any faster if the batteries can't run them.
Lead acid AGM's (Optima Yellow Tops) can pump the most juice of
available batteries, but they are heavy. The alternative is to ratchet
up the voltage instead using smaller current NiMH or Lithium batteries.
This is how the Tesla goes fast with a single relatively small motor.
I've been working with a smaller PM AC motor (BLDC) similiar to the UGM
but smaller that is going in the jetski. One could stack them to get
some big power, but I would think the AC55 is a better choice than 4-8
of the smaller motors.
Best Regards,
Jack
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> I had a 97 Solectria Force for a while. I am not sure but is this the
same
> motor it had? It was a 156 volt system I don't know what bumping that up
to
> 312 would do but I am looking for a lot more performance than one single
motor.
> I plan not to have a transmission and that weight would be the second
motor.
>
> I live in an area with a lot of hills. An example of one is 3 Ah up and I
> could recover 1 Ah in one half of a mile in the Solectria. The S-10 NiMH
and
> Ranger trucks I drive do not have enough regeneration to stop the vehicle.
In
> fact it they gain speed and I have to use the brakes.
>
> I also want to this EV to drive more like a sports car. Valance batteries
> would be an option and I already have NiMH batteries but that would be
about
> 1100 pounds of batteries. For most my local driving I don't go over 20
miles so
> a small size Hawker could be another option. If I can buy the A123 battery
> that would be about what I need.
>
> I don't see a downside to having the two motors and if I don't like the
> results I can just spilt them up and use them on some other projects. From
the
> post on the list it sounds like my biggest road block would be buying a
Zilla
> Z1K or Z2K.
>
> I would consider the A55 motor if I could link two together. I noticed
they
> do weigh a lot. I not looking to just blow a mountain of money but I am
> willing to spend what it takes to build this.
>
> Don
>
>
> In a message dated 10/5/2006 1:14:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> I didn't think saving money was a priority:
>
>
>>>The DC motor and controller would be 10,000 the Siemens system cost
>>>15,000 total cost 25,000
>>
>
> ElectroAuto prices a complete AC55 conversion kit at $10,000
> Just the motor is $1,400.
> I've considered building a controller for the AC55 motor, and probably
> will, but I'll put it on the top of my todo list for $10K. :)
>
> Jack
>
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
>>Jack Murray wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But why not just use a big AC motor instead??
>>>Such as the Azure AC55, a 13.5" 177 ft-lbs
>>
>>
>>
>>Certainly; that's the obvious way to do it. It just costs more. I think
>>theoldcars was looking for a way to save some money.
>
>
>
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Does anyone else experience inconsistent delivery of the EVDL in digest
mode? It seems to have gotten worse for me recently, to the point of
making it very difficult to follow or participate in a thread.
A quick look at my email logs shows just how wonky it's been lately.
Here's the last few digests I've received in order of receipt, most
recent delivery first:
Digest #5962
5974
5973
5954
5972
5950
5971
5957
5970
5955
5956
5965... and so on.
Some digests are received DAYS out of order! I don't recall it always
being this way. Is this anomaly more likely to be introduced on the
sending or receiving end?
- Patrick
PS - My apologies if I've seemed to ask a question (most recently about
severe voltage sag) and then dropped out of sight. It's not on purpose!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adan's EV questions are coming from one of many the EV List members
have helped and will continue to help in the future.
Each time I see these EV QnA topics going on, it keeps my hope
alive of the EVangel effort to disseminate good EV information to
hungry minds. There is just so much of the media's disinformation
out there, it is great that the EV list members provide the facts
of what it takes to start having an EV Grin of your own!
Since info on Adan is easily found with an Internet search, I
assume Adan would not mind I put a face with name (Adan I am
putting the spotlight on you, so continue to do good EV things to
earn your EVangel wings).
Here's a few links that came up that may be of interest:
http://www.lclark.edu/~ecar/story.html
http://lclark.edu/~ecar/technology.html
http://lclark.edu/~ecar/media.html
http://www.lclark.edu/~piolog/06-04-14/features.html
http://lclark.edu/~ecar/gallery/images/IMG_7001%20(Large).jpg
Adan, keep those EV questions coming. The EV List members will do
their best to help get you the EV answers. :-)
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
16,000 Euro. 20,159.90 USD
Still not bad :)
> Or if you've got an extra $16,000 lying around, try one of these kits:
>
http://www.agnus.sk/_mirror/k1/menu.php?menu=attack_menu.htm&id=attack-roofs
et.htm
> Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm going to assume that by "direct drive you mean a single ratio speed
reduction rather than the motor's drive shaft directly connected to the
wheels with no reduction.
There are several things that limit your top speed. One is the self
dissasembly RPM of the motor. If you have a motor that is rated for a
6000 rpm max, and you use a gear ratio that would have it spinning at
10,000 rpm @ 100 mph, chances are that somewhere between 60mph and 100mph
parts of the motor are going to decide to be somewhere other than inside
the motor (this is a VERY bad thing).
On the other hand, if you gear it so that it's only going to be going
1,000 rpm at 100mph, then chances are that it will draw so much current
starting up that it will melt the coils inside the motor (also a bad
thing).
But let's assume you gear it so that it's going 5,000 rpm at 100 mph.
Thats inside the safe operating RPM for the motor, and spinning fast
enough to keep your current down to reasonable levels.
Now your limitation becomes power. Let's say you are running a 144V
system, and while spinning at 5,000 rpm and fed 144V the motor will only
draw 150 amps. Well 144V * 150 Amps = 21.6kw(assumely normal losses thats
roughly 22hp). Chances are your vehicle will need more than 22hp to reach
100 mph. If it does then you can't reach 100 mph, because you cant get
enough power into the motor.
Lets say your vehicle actually needs 60hp to go 100 mph. TO do this you
need to get the motor to draw 60kw (I'm assuming your battery pack can
DELIVER 60 kw, because if it can't then you can't get there). You could
try incrasesing pack voltage, maybe at 200V the motor will draw 300 amps
at 5,000 rpm.
Hmm, I should have mentioned that the above examples assume a series wound
motor. AC drive systems can perform differently depending on the type.
There are a few other things that can limit your top speed.
The main limitations are: can your battery pack deliver enough power? Can
your controller handle the power? Can the motor handle the power? Is the
motor geared so that it won't self destruct, and still be able to deliver
the power?
ANother consideration...is the motor geared so that it can deliver enough
torque for climbing hills? It doesn't do you any good to be able to reach
70mph on the flats, if you don't have enough torque to climb the freeway
onramp.
> Hi again,
> I was contemplating the option of going "direct drive" with the EV I'm
> planning to build and am interested in knowing:
>
> Is there any limit to an EV's speed with going direct drive?
> (Holding other things constant like batteries or different car weights /
> sizes.)
>
> If we were to stick the car into a gear like 3rd, do you think we could
> still reach 100mph or so, and within ~20 seconds? I almost feel like I
> don't fully understand the direct drive option and speed limitations (or
> even if direct drive still involves shifting gears...I believe not?)
>
> As always, thanks for your kindness and answers! You guys rock!
> Sincerely,
> Adan Vielma
> Lewis & Clark College
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
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wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
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