EV Digest 5977
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Truck tailgate up vs down, Was=> Re: Ranger doner
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Zilla BackOrder
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: LED brakelights
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: motor alignment question
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EV Tax Credit for Conversion?
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) 730A Alltrax Controller
by "Scott Newman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: LED brakelights
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: LED brakelights
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 730A Alltrax Controller
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Getting an AC motor inverter built
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV Tax Credit for Conversion?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Comparator circuit 1.0 for nicad pack monitoring
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Kit car conversions
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Zilla BackOrder
by "Kip C Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV Motorcycle on Treehugger w/ video
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Zilla BackOrder
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: EV Podcasting
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Zilla BackOrder
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You mean like this?
http://www.penn-partners.org/evteam/attack.htm
Steve
On Fri, October 6, 2006 12:54 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Or if you've got an extra $16,000 lying around, try one of these kits:
> http://www.agnus.sk/_mirror/k1/menu.php?menu=attack_menu.htm&id=attack-roo
> fset.htm
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not that I'm arguing that they got it right, but what about the actual
road test comparison did you object to?
-Mike
On 9/30/06, The Terminator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mythbusters are Mythcreators on a lot of subjects since they have a long
way to go to learn the scientific method.
Just my bubble burst worth.
Jimmy
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It appears that the distance between Otmar and myself is too far so I
won't get to help him with his backorder. That's not a fun problem to
have.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> So I just did.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mike Phillips" <ev@> wrote:
> >
> > I keep meaning to drop him a line.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Lacy <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jeff Shanab wrote:
> > >
> > > >I have been hearing about the zilla back order from everyone except
> > > >Otmar so I shot him a quick email to see how lifes treating him.
> > Since a
> > > >few people at work who drive golf carts between buildings all day
> have
> > > >taken notice of My EV and are asking about where to get parts.
> > > >
> > > >Otmar Hasn't been able to keep up with the list but said he is
> > currently
> > > >on Feburary's orders and doing soldering himself, but is really
> > hopefull
> > > >about the new hire. I wonder if a "meet and solder" weekend to
> help hi
> > > >catch up would be a great EV weekend. Kind of take a break from
> racing
> > > >to pay homage to one of the driving forces :-).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I think this is a *great* idea. Does anyone here know what skill
> level
> > > it takes to assemble a complete Zilla? Would it make sense to sell
> > them
> > > in "unassembled kit" form?
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
I did not think that the "ultra-capacitors" were available yet! Can you
give more information about them i.e. where can you buy them, how many kWh
do they hold, etc.? Or do I need to ask the people at West Philadelphia
High School?
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Lacy
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
You mean like this?
http://www.penn-partners.org/evteam/attack.htm
Steve
On Fri, October 6, 2006 12:54 pm, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Or if you've got an extra $16,000 lying around, try one of these kits:
> http://www.agnus.sk/_mirror/k1/menu.php?menu=attack_menu.htm&id=attack-roo
> fset.htm
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: LED brakelights
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:11:52 -0700
Normal brake light is 12V 21W
so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
draw more than 80W.
Just how often are you braking?
I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
about them.
If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
then you are going to gain much more range.
Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
0.1% line.
YMMV.
Cor van de Water
Cor -
I agree that the effect of LED bulbs on range would be in the noise. My
reason for asking about these is not to increase range.
My concern is the DC-DC load. My DC-to-DC is only about 25 amps, so, when
the car's 12V accessories ( like headlights, brakelights, wipers, etc) draw
more than this, the auxiliary voltage will drop to about 12V ( from the
normal 13.5 or so) while the aux battery takes up the slack. So, anytime
this happens, the headlights will dim a bit, the wipers will slow down, the
heater fan will slow down, etc.
It is likely that there will be times when the extra brakelight 5 amps will
drive the total load over 25 amps, and the voltage will drop while sitting
at a stoplight.
My goal in changing the brakelights to LEDS is to avoid this particular
situation if possible.
Phil
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey John
Here's my take on it. If your motor is bolted to the tranny and that part is
true, then I would use the tranny mounts and let the motor hang and see where
your at. If you can attach 3 of the 4 mountings, like you said I would think
you could get that fourth to bolt once the other 3 were attached. Shim it,
drill a bigger intake hole, etc. Even having just the 3 would probably work
okay, you aint gonna be hammering it all the time now are you? 8^ P
I guess I'm saying you'd be better off letting it hang as opposed to forcing
the motor out of wack trying to get it to mate out of line. This would cause a
lot of stress on the DE bearing and or shaft as I see it.
Anyway I hope this helps. Ya know it's always darkest right before the dawn,
so hold in there, your EV grins sounds like it's pretty darn close. BTW I
always liked the saying "Dead on balls accurate", it's a technical term used in
the movie My cousin Vinnie, but hey, thats me 8^P
Best of luck, just keep thinking of being able to pass up gas stations when
finished, LMAO!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2006, at 01:51 AM, Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey John
>
> You forgot premature shaft and bearing wear 8^ P Although you maybe
> excited to get it running, get it right and you'll be happier in the
> end, and you won't be asking what it costs for shaft replacement in a
> few months.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
Thanks Jim,
I really don't mean to sound snide or anything but how exactly do I
know if I have it right?
And Assuming I can figure out where right is, how close do I have to
get: millimeters? 1/4 inch?
inches?
Given the way the motor mates to the adapter plat combination which
mates to the transmission, I suppose all those pieces are in alignment,
but as a unit it may not be in exactly the same allignmentwith the
drive shaft.
That said the back end of the transmission is bolted to its original
transmission mounts. Is that all I need?
John
>
> John wrote:
> I have my motor mount back from the welder and the motor is
> temporarily
> installed. I have a bit more refining to get the transmission bell
> housing at the pre-conversion height. I am concerned that the mount I
> have fabricated may not align the motor exactly square to the
> transmission. Given that I only took the vertical height measurement I
> don't know for sure if or how much out of alignment the motor is.
>
> Am I in for a potential safety hazard, gross inefficiency or possibly
> both.
>
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the IRS website they mention tax credits for ZEV and specifically
battery-electric ZEVs. Does anyone know if/how I can claim a credit or
deduction for the conversion I am starting now?
regards,
mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure they are. Maxwell and EEStor have products in this field. But
they're not capable of storing any significant range yet, just bursts of
acceleration. They're also incredibly expensive.
Note that "super" and "ultra" have no official uniform meaning.
EEStor's claims of their yet-unnamed bulk capacitor technology is on a
completely different level than this stuff.
Danny
Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
Steve,
I did not think that the "ultra-capacitors" were available yet! Can you
give more information about them i.e. where can you buy them, how many kWh
do they hold, etc.? Or do I need to ask the people at West Philadelphia
High School?
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Lacy
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
You mean like this?
http://www.penn-partners.org/evteam/attack.htm
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
Steve,
I did not think that the "ultra-capacitors" were available yet! Can you
give more information about them i.e. where can you buy them, how many kWh
do they hold, etc.? Or do I need to ask the people at West Philadelphia
High School?
Curtis
search through the archives for "ultracapacitor" or "supercapacitor".
this topic was beaten to death (be me too...oops) several times. you'll
about 100 emails on it...not kidding :)
regards,
mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:41 AM 10/6/2006, you wrote:
http://www.fiberfab.us/default.htmThis kitcar looks incredible and
they claim $5700 price.
To see an electric FiberFab, go to
http://www.electroauto.com/gallery/aztec.shtml
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking for a 72V controller for a new bike project and I saw this one on
ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260038736685
I haven't been able to find out anything about a 730A controller from the
Alltrax site. Does anyone know if Alltrax has higher amp controllers? Does
Alltrax build custom controllers?
Thx-
Scooter Scott
--
___________________________________________________
Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As it happens, I just bought some LED taillights for a trailer project.
I bought 4 different types so I could test and compare them to regular
lights with #1157 bulbs. Observations:
1. All of them use LEDs in standard T1-3/4 packages. LEDs in this
package are normally spec'd for 20ma typical, 60ma absolute
maximum continuous current.
2. All of these lights ran the LEDs at 85-135ma at 12vdc, i.e. well
beyond ratings.
3. All of them have just a simple resistor as the current-limiting
element.
4. The lights have from 1 to 3 LEDs in series, plus the resistor.
5. The ones that have more than 3 LEDs wire them into groups of 3 in
series, and then parallel these groups, and use a single resistor
for all of them.
6. Judging by eyeball, it takes about 10 LEDs to match the on-axis
brightness of the #1157 brake light's filament, or 3 LEDs to match
the on-axis brightness of the #1157 tail light filament. I judged
this by shining the two lights under test out the window at night,
and comparing their reflections in the window of the house next door.
7. The *off-axis* brightness of all of the LED tail lights (even one
with 18 LEDs) is noticeably worse than the #1157 bulb. Off-axis
was judged at about 45 degrees off to the side.
8. The LED taillights were about 2 to 3 times the price of the same
size taillights with regular light bulbs. There is no apparent
justification for the higher price, as all the parts used are
very cheap, and their overall quality is as low or lower than the
ones with regular light bulbs.
I'm strongly tempted to buy a bag of $0.25 high-brightness LEDs and make
my own. Just remove the bulb from a standard taillight, and install a
dozen or so LEDs in its place. With more LEDs, I could run them at
specified current to insure longer life, and still be cheaper than these
commercial ones.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a lot better to use the 7.6mm x 7.6 mm 4-pin flat pack. It's a far
superior thermal design over the T1-3/4 types.
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/627/54.pdf
I was calling it "SuperFlux" but I think that term has been used by
different mfg for different things and may not mean what I think it means.
The power they're capable of safely maintaining is far superior to a
normal LED. And like I say, flat pack is nice because you can place
them further back in the housing. LED specs are actually really hard to
understand, all I can say for sure is these packs are much more powerful
than the T1-3/4. The way Mouser lists LEDs is basically with
near-meaningless data.
Generally the idea is to make a PCB (prototype board ok) and permanently
wire it in. There's no reason to maintain the lamp socket since you're
never going to replace it. If you're feeling bold you might cut out the
old plastic and socket to make it fit better.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
I'm strongly tempted to buy a bag of $0.25 high-brightness LEDs and
make my own. Just remove the bulb from a standard taillight, and
install a dozen or so LEDs in its place. With more LEDs, I could run
them at specified current to insure longer life, and still be cheaper
than these commercial ones.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Scott
That's Shawn Waggoner from SEVO. He's a great guy and member here. I'd have
no problem buying this being I know Shawn, if it meets your needs, which it
should. If you read the description it says they had it custom built for
higher amp rating. Anyway I just thought I'd put in a good word.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Scott Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was looking for a 72V controller for a new bike project and I saw this one
on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260038736685
I haven't been able to find out anything about a 730A controller from the
Alltrax site. Does anyone know if Alltrax has higher amp controllers? Does
Alltrax build custom controllers?
Thx-
Scooter Scott
--
___________________________________________________
Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/5/06, Jack Murray wrote:
I've considered building a controller for the AC55 motor, and probably
will, but I'll put it on the top of my to do list for $10K. :)
What kind of voltage/amps/watts from your proposed controller? How
about one that will drive any AC motor? Are there any common, viable,
off the shelf air cooled AC motors that would be suitable for EV use?
You know, all you need to do is prototype the first one then contract
it out to an assembly shop and start selling inverters...
If I had any electronic design skills, I'd bang out a rough inverter
that could fully control the speed of an air cooled 1 - 5 horse AC
motor from 0 - any rpm I chose and post the plans on this list. Then
we could scale it up for Zilla+ type power levels.
Can a 3 phase inverter be built to drive any AC motor and not require
any software in it?
Does someone here have the skills to design the inverter's circuit
board and component layout? Does another have the skills to write the
drive software for it? All we need is something to get started with
and then we can fine tune/tweak/improve it.
Rewrite the book on 3 phase inverter motor speed controllers. Must it
REALLY be the hardware equivalent of 3 DC motor controllers?
Change DC into AC and drive/power 3 motor phases using one controller?
Chop it, pulse it, route it? Why 3 separate controllers in one? Why
can't one drive all three phases? How did GM do it in '66?
Maybe someone in China for example has the skills and would be willing
to design an inverter for a nominal fee? I'd put in some money if it
was assured of being designed. Have it designed, approve the design,
then pay the designer agreed upon fee. The hardest part would be
finding said skilled person.
Maybe Arthur Matteson would be willing to build the most powerful
universal AC motor inverter speed controller the world has ever seen
for a realistic price? Time and hardware...
Maybe old school it sans printed circuit board. Like an electronic
box from the 1960's or so I saw out of a B-52. Imagine a metal box
full of electronic components all wired and soldered together. No
circuit board anywhere in it. What a site.
Examples of point to point circuits:
http://mhuss.com/AmpInfo/images/SunnSoradoGuts2.jpg
http://www.joecool.org/starroamer2.jpg
Now that we've taken out getting a printed circuit board designed and
built... all we need is the crudest, simplest AC motor speed
controller to get the ball rolling. Anyone?
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt/threeph.html
I'm willing to buy components from Digi-key or where ever if someone
is willing to R&D this for the greater good.
How about for starters, just make an inverter to drive a single phase
motor? Is there a big single phase motor that would be good enough to
power an EV? (three phase can come later if single will work for now)
What are the various ways to control the rpm of an AC motor?
Voltage? Current? Frequency?
Can for example, a 5hp air cooled AC motor be rewound for ANY voltage/frequency?
Are there any "simple" inverter systems on any of these new AC
forklifts and can anything be learned from those or are they typical
"black box" OEM type setups? How much for an AC motor/inverter off
one of these lifts?
First, find ideal AC motors for EVs(low cost/reasonable cost), then
devise something to power/control it.
If DC EV motors came from forklifts, where will the AC motors come
from and what are they currently being used in?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've not been on in awhile, but I thought the only
credits left were for OEMs, not 3rd party conversions.
Hope you're in Oregon; we still give credits when the
conversion gets finished!
Best to you,
--- Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On the IRS website they mention tax credits for ZEV
> and specifically
> battery-electric ZEVs. Does anyone know if/how I
> can claim a credit or
> deduction for the conversion I am starting now?
>
> regards,
> mike
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
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'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a schematic for monitoring the low voltage threshold of
roughly a 12v battery. The trick with this circuit is to make the led
come on smoothly and gradually get brighter as the battery voltage
drops. It shines at zero brightness at 15v and 100% brightness at 10v.
The led tapers on very gradually and smoothly. However the voltage
range should be much tighter. From around 11v down to 10v. So some
more work needs to be done. The circuit uses an opto at each battery
to isolate the pack from the cabin. In my truck 9 cells will equal 1
battery. The Vcc is about 12v. Adjustments for line loss and range are
supplied by the two pots.
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/cellmon/cellmon1.pdf
Then there is the high threshold monitor.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Correct, though the voltages will change, so the resistor
> values will need to be re-calculated for that.
> You will also not be able to create a single opto output,
> but if you like to have 2 (low and high) opto outputs then
> this may work very well.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:37 PM
> To: Cor van de Water
> Subject: Re: Window comparator for BMS
>
>
> Cor,
>
> Cost not withstanding, a dual color led could be sub'd for the 5
> led/diode parts producing less parts and a smaller population.
>
> I plan on smt parts for this.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <ev@> wrote:
> >
> >
http://www.geocities.com/cor_van_de_water/USE/window_comparater_BMS.gif
> >
> > I changed the offset to 7.5V from the + input to reduce
> > asymmetry in LED currents with battery voltages between
> > 10 and 14V, max LED current is around 4mA, good for a
> > high brightness efficient red LED.
> > (I have a bag full, let me know if you need some)
> >
> > With an opamp that has very low standby current,
> > (well below 1 mA at 12V) this circuit will draw around
> > 5 mA constantly, 12mA peak when the battery goes to 15V.
> > The opamp needs to be able to drive the output close
> > to the supply voltage, less than 1V preferred.
> >
> > (5mA is approx 4Ah per month, this is around the
> > self-discharge current of good EV batteries so it
> > nothing to worry about)
> >
> > NOTE: I have not tested this circuit yet - use at
> > your own risk, best build a breadboard version first
> > before ordering production quantities ;-)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:20 AM
> > To: ev@
> > Subject: RE: Window comparator for BMS
> >
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > This is rather easy with discrete components, though there
> > may be more elegant integrated versions.
> >
> > The basic premise is that you should start with a voltage
> > amplifier and a configurable offset voltage, for example an
> > overall 3x gain amplifier having an offset at 12V that makes
> > its output zero when the battery is at 12V and have an output
> > of +3V when the battery is one volt higher at 13V and an
> > output of -3V when the battery is one volt lower at 11V.
> >
> > Then all you need is a Red LED in a diode bridge to light up
> > when the output is about + or - 3V (1.5V for the LED and 0.7V
> > for each of the two low-voltage diodes in the path)
> >
> > Obviously we need a resistor in series with the LED to limit
> > the current, as the output of the opamp will increase with
> > larger difference from the 12V offset.
> >
> > To avoid separate symmetrical voltages to power the opamp,
> > the whole operation can be shifted to work at an offset
> > around 5V and use a resistor divider to measure the battery
> > voltage, while the battery also powers this circuit.
> >
> > Let me know if you want a sketch of such a circuit, it should
> > need only:
> > - one opamp
> > - one zener of approx 5V
> > - one red LED
> > - four diodes (or one low voltage bridge rectifier)
> > - five resistors
> >
> > If the zener has the proper temperature profile that it gets
> > a lower voltage at high temps with the same percentage as the
> > battery voltage changes over temperature then this circuit's
> > indication will even be temp compensated.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:41 AM
> > To: EVDL
> > Subject: Window comparator for BMS
> >
> >
> > I'm looking to build a set of window comparators for the display side
> > of my bms. The older ACP cars have one led per battery. The led lights
> > when the battery's voltage goes above 13v. It gets brighter the
further
> > above 13v it goes.
> >
> > The same is true during discharge. The Led comes on at about 11 volts
> > and gets brighter the further below 11 volts it goes.
> >
> > Both of these functions apply to the same led. The variable brightness
> > portion of the circuit I don't grasp as windoow comparators I've found
> > are solidly on or off.
> >
> > Ideas?
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes you can make a stunning electric vehicle with a kit car, however
you must realize that you are not getting a complete glider for
$5,700. You are getting only the body, frame, some suspension parts,
doors, seat, and dash. You must supply everything else. You will
need maybe $1,000 to $3,000 in other parts if you do the work
yourself. Add to that from $4,000 to $30,000 for the EV parts, and
500 to 1000 hours of your time. A lot more than pulling out the
engine and back seats from a production car then installing an
electric motor and batteries.
On Oct 6, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: October 6, 2006 9:41:19 AM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
http://www.fiberfab.us/default.htmThis kitcar looks incredible and
they claim $5700 price.
Mike Swift
Two things only the people anxiously desire—bread and circuses.
Decimus Junius Juvenalls
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be very interested in self-assembly if I could get one faster and
save a few bucks at the same time.
-
Kip
85 MR2 (Still stripping it down)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla BackOrder
I think this is a *great* idea. Does anyone here know what skill level it
takes to assemble a complete Zilla? Would it make sense to sell them in
"unassembled kit" form?
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm. A little like Rendevous. Just slower. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Niessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 7:45 AM
Subject: EV Motorcycle on Treehugger w/ video
> There is a short little of a Derbi GPR-50 conversion, it includes a
> video of the bike as well.
>
> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/10/man_create_elec.php
>
> Nice little plug for Thunderstruck-EV.com and ElectricMotorSport.com.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My impression is that the assembly is not Radio Shack-esqe. Then we'd
be bugging Otmar for how does this go and that go.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Kip C Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I would be very interested in self-assembly if I could get one
faster and
> save a few bucks at the same time.
>
> -
> Kip
> 85 MR2 (Still stripping it down)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:34 PM
> Subject: Re: Zilla BackOrder
>
> > I think this is a *great* idea. Does anyone here know what skill
level it
> > takes to assemble a complete Zilla? Would it make sense to sell
them in
> > "unassembled kit" form?
> >
> > Steve
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Nikki,
I had a similar idea some months back.
My plan was to produce a weekly summary of the big stories on the EV
list.
I went through the motions of making one episode.
(Scripting, intro, outro, speaking, editing, etc)
When I realised just how much time it took to put it all together, I
decided to put it on the backburner.
Anyway, I've got a bit more spare time now, and I'd love to help with
your project.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nikki
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 October 2006 4:50 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: EV Podcasting
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm planning on setting up a fortnightly or monthly podcast for EV
> owners and enthusiasts. The plan is to include people on a
> world-wide
> level from the UK to the USA and from Eastern Europe to Australia!
>
> The initial podcast would take probably an hour of your time to
> record and would just simply require you to have a broadband
> connection, Skype and a spare hour when we can all get together!
>
> I have some UK people lined up for this but it'd be great to have
> EVers from around the globe involved. We'd aim to make the
> podcast (I
> think) on a weekend Evening (Probably Saturday or Sunday late
> evening GMT)
>
> Any takers?
>
> Nikki.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I asked him about that a week ago and he laughed thinking I was
kidding. My guess there is much testing, tuning, etc. Perhaps
Heathkit will make one:)
Mark
On Oct 6, 2006, at 10:44 PM, Mike Phillips wrote:
My impression is that the assembly is not Radio Shack-esqe. Then we'd
be bugging Otmar for how does this go and that go.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Kip C Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I would be very interested in self-assembly if I could get one
faster and
save a few bucks at the same time.
-
Kip
85 MR2 (Still stripping it down)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lacy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla BackOrder
I think this is a *great* idea. Does anyone here know what skill
level it
takes to assemble a complete Zilla? Would it make sense to sell
them in
"unassembled kit" form?
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > I've considered building a controller for the AC55 motor, and probably
> > will, but I'll put it on the top of my to do list for $10K. :)
My co-worker may use this motor for a hybrid he's thinking of building.
If he goes through with it, the inverter would be of the multilevel
topology, also built by him. The control and construction will be much
more difficult than a normal single-level inverter, but it won't be that
challenging for him. It's experience that counts (but my guess at his
age: 23?).
> What kind of voltage/amps/watts from your proposed controller? How
> about one that will drive any AC motor? Are there any common, viable,
> off the shelf air cooled AC motors that would be suitable for EV use?
I opted for the Baldor EM3314T. I've been fairly happy with it, but
it's a fairly generic model despite being "super-efficient." The rotor
is quite asymmetric so it can't run above 4,500RPM as is. The AC55 is
good; it can be bought separately from its controller, but without a
warranty.
> Can a 3 phase inverter be built to drive any AC motor and not require
> any software in it?
International Rectifier's iPOWIR comes close with an FPGA. An analog
design would work okay, but I don't know why anyone would do that given
the convenience and reliability of a $5 microprocessor.
My FOC (vector control) code:
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/drive96v.asm
A document with which I'm tutoring co-workers:
http://www-s.ti.com/sc/psheets/spra284a/spra284a.pdf
I've eaten dinner with David Figoli, and met Zhenyu Yu (the authors).
> Does someone here have the skills to design the inverter's circuit
> board and component layout? Does another have the skills to write the
> drive software for it? All we need is something to get started with
> and then we can fine tune/tweak/improve it.
I have all :-) This stuff is easy to find online! Do an IEEE / Google
search.
> Rewrite the book on 3 phase inverter motor speed controllers. Must it
> REALLY be the hardware equivalent of 3 DC motor controllers?
Yes.
> Change DC into AC and drive/power 3 motor phases using one controller?
> Chop it, pulse it, route it? Why 3 separate controllers in one? Why
> can't one drive all three phases? How did GM do it in '66?
Um...three phases pretty much need their own drivers. I suppose you
could do something wacko, but it wouldn't work nearly as well. I guess
it all depends on what you call a "controller," but it's a moot point.
> Maybe Arthur Matteson would be willing to build the most powerful
> universal AC motor inverter speed controller the world has ever seen
> for a realistic price? Time and hardware...
Maybe so, just maybe so...
> Examples of point to point circuits:
>
> http://mhuss.com/AmpInfo/images/SunnSoradoGuts2.jpg
>
> http://www.joecool.org/starroamer2.jpg
This makes me laugh, as an example for power electronics. Those
circuits would never handle much power. Way too much inductance! A few
days ago I was clipping leads to about 3mm long and realized that wasn't
nearly short enough.
> Now that we've taken out getting a printed circuit board designed and
> built... all we need is the crudest, simplest AC motor speed
> controller to get the ball rolling. Anyone?
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt/threeph.html
I'm doing something much different than what you want to do. I'm trying
to optimize the controller with a very specific purpose in mind.
Instead, you want an inverter with a module inside. All the hard work
gone! But, you must find 400V of batteries to make up for it. Your
efficiency will be higher than mine, though.
Example (only one needed for a smallish car):
http://catalog.rell.com/rellecom/scripts/SkuPage.asp?SKU=689855&PNO=&PNM=
> How about for starters, just make an inverter to drive a single phase
> motor? Is there a big single phase motor that would be good enough to
> power an EV? (three phase can come later if single will work for now)
The DC bus current ripple would be high (bad for the batteries), and the
selection of motors would be much smaller.
> What are the various ways to control the rpm of an AC motor?
> Voltage? Current? Frequency?
Frequency, frequency, and frequency.
I'm the new webmaster for my lab... http://www.egr.msu.edu/pelab
My brief biography (background is a Texas Instruments poster):
http://www.egr.msu.edu/pelab/People/arthur.htm
This group has a handful of Masters and Ph.D students (we counted 13
today), and is located near Michigan State University in Lansing, MI.
We're doing BIG stuff, like a 1.5MVA inverter for trains. We even have
a contract with Toyota, related to the Prius. My project is the
Z-source inverter for fuel-cell vehicles. It's considerably more
complex than a simple three-phase inverter.
Today we had three visitors from overseas, one of whom is working on a
bearingless motor that requires *three* inverters. Another is a
professor in charge of about 60 electrical engineering graduate students
in South Korea. They have a 13-story building almost totally to
themselves! 40% of their $1.4 million budget is from countries besides
Korea.
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use the program PDFEdit995 to change various options about PDF995, including
the option to start a new file each time you print something instead of
adding the printout to the previous file.
Looking forward to it!
If you get yourself of a copy of pdf995
<http://www.pdf995.com/> (free),
then you can print your spreadsheet plots, etc. to it just as
you would
to any printer and have a nice .pdf format document to share.
Printing
Excel plots, etc. to pdf995 results in compact files that you
can zoom
in on to see data without the image falling apart like a jpg or
other
capture will.
Roger,
I tried printing the spreadsheet with pdf995, and as I feared the
spreadsheet was way down about page 24 of the pdf file, after
other stuff I tried printing with pdf995 many months ago. I
looked at C:\pdf995\res\pdf995.ini, and there is a Combine
Documents entry set to 1. However, changing stuff in this file
probably won't do me any good, since the file is created by
pdf995 on the fly when I create the pdf file. I don't see any
settings in Page Setup of Microsoft Works that would affect this
(nor have I in any other app trying to use pdf995. And I don't
think I have any other way to modify the pdf file. It's
conceivable that the Presentation Manager program that came with
my scanner might have a route, but I'll have to explore that.
Any hints?
Thanks,
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I actually read through this whole message, but I didn't see anything like:
"I want to fund the design of this ac motor controller because ..."
You don't really explain your desire for a new AC controller design.
Ryan Stotts wrote:
On 10/5/06, Jack Murray wrote:
I've considered building a controller for the AC55 motor, and probably
will, but I'll put it on the top of my to do list for $10K. :)
What kind of voltage/amps/watts from your proposed controller? How
about one that will drive any AC motor? Are there any common, viable,
off the shelf air cooled AC motors that would be suitable for EV use?
You know, all you need to do is prototype the first one then contract
it out to an assembly shop and start selling inverters...
If I had any electronic design skills, I'd bang out a rough inverter
that could fully control the speed of an air cooled 1 - 5 horse AC
motor from 0 - any rpm I chose and post the plans on this list. Then
we could scale it up for Zilla+ type power levels.
Can a 3 phase inverter be built to drive any AC motor and not require
any software in it?
Does someone here have the skills to design the inverter's circuit
board and component layout? Does another have the skills to write the
drive software for it? All we need is something to get started with
and then we can fine tune/tweak/improve it.
Rewrite the book on 3 phase inverter motor speed controllers. Must it
REALLY be the hardware equivalent of 3 DC motor controllers?
Change DC into AC and drive/power 3 motor phases using one controller?
Chop it, pulse it, route it? Why 3 separate controllers in one? Why
can't one drive all three phases? How did GM do it in '66?
Maybe someone in China for example has the skills and would be willing
to design an inverter for a nominal fee? I'd put in some money if it
was assured of being designed. Have it designed, approve the design,
then pay the designer agreed upon fee. The hardest part would be
finding said skilled person.
Maybe Arthur Matteson would be willing to build the most powerful
universal AC motor inverter speed controller the world has ever seen
for a realistic price? Time and hardware...
Maybe old school it sans printed circuit board. Like an electronic
box from the 1960's or so I saw out of a B-52. Imagine a metal box
full of electronic components all wired and soldered together. No
circuit board anywhere in it. What a site.
Examples of point to point circuits:
http://mhuss.com/AmpInfo/images/SunnSoradoGuts2.jpg
http://www.joecool.org/starroamer2.jpg
Now that we've taken out getting a printed circuit board designed and
built... all we need is the crudest, simplest AC motor speed
controller to get the ball rolling. Anyone?
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt/threeph.html
I'm willing to buy components from Digi-key or where ever if someone
is willing to R&D this for the greater good.
How about for starters, just make an inverter to drive a single phase
motor? Is there a big single phase motor that would be good enough to
power an EV? (three phase can come later if single will work for now)
What are the various ways to control the rpm of an AC motor?
Voltage? Current? Frequency?
Can for example, a 5hp air cooled AC motor be rewound for ANY
voltage/frequency?
Are there any "simple" inverter systems on any of these new AC
forklifts and can anything be learned from those or are they typical
"black box" OEM type setups? How much for an AC motor/inverter off
one of these lifts?
First, find ideal AC motors for EVs(low cost/reasonable cost), then
devise something to power/control it.
If DC EV motors came from forklifts, where will the AC motors come
from and what are they currently being used in?
--- End Message ---
