EV Digest 5978
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) OT: Digest Delivery anomalies
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Kit car conversions
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: could these be the basis of an electric conversion?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Grant Funds
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Grant Funds
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: LED brakelights
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: LED brakelights
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Grant Funds
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Truck tailgate up vs down, Was=> Re: Ranger doner
by Matt Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Tax Credit for Conversion?
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV Podcasting
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Lithium-ion batteries
by Roy Reker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Grant Funds
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: 730A Alltrax Controller
by "Shawn Waggoner \(EV List\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: EV Tax Credit for Conversion?
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Lithium-ion batteries
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Truck tailgate up vs down, Was=> Re: Ranger doner
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV Tax Credit for Conversion?
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Lithium-ion batteries
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Lithium-ion batteries
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Truck tailgate up vs down, Was=> Re: Ranger doner
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Lithium-ion batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) RE: EV Tax Credit for Conversion?
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Lithium-ion batteries
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Lithium-ion batteries
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
29) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Comparator circuit 1.0 for nicad pack monitoring
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've been recieving the EVDL in Digest mode for years and never saw a
problem like this.
I have seen this problem with snail mail though...
I would say it's on the receiving end.
Jim,
'93 Dodge TEVan
'88 Fiero ESE
>Subject: OT: Digest Delivery anomalies
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Does anyone else experience inconsistent delivery of the EVDL in digest
>mode? It seems to have gotten worse for me recently, to the point of
>making it very difficult to follow or participate in a thread.
>A quick look at my email logs shows just how wonky it's been lately.
>Here's the last few digests I've received in order of receipt, most
>recent delivery first:
>Digest #5962
>5974
>5973
>5954
>5972
>5950
>5971
>5957
>5970
>5955
>5956
>5965... and so on.
>Some digests are received DAYS out of order! I don't recall it always
>being this way. Is this anomaly more likely to be introduced on the
>sending or receiving end?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike,
I've studied this Valkrie by Fiberfab GT 40
replica and it's well made and perfect to use as an EV.
Through other lists the owner of the factory contacted me
and interested in getting them done in EV. With a hugh
center space admidships to carry batteries, EV drive and it
low frontal area, low aero drag, it would make a great
highway cruiser getting over 100 mile range. And kick ass at
the drag strip, road course.
There are many kitcars that because of their
low weight and sometimes good aero, make great EV's needing
much lower cost battery packs, motor, controllers to get the
same performance. Or use the same size EV systems and go
much faster, farther on the same money. EV's cost by the
pound so by starting with much less weight, good aero you
are way ahead of the game.
I think one could by buying a kitcar through
a deal worked out with the kitcar factory, get a good price
on ready to drive except the engine/trans, then finish them
in EV. I'd bet you could get a good rolling glider for under
$12k and with about $10k of EV parts, make a $35-60K priced
EV to sell, thatt would be a terror on the street.
Though if you go your own way, building from
scratch, you could make much more or lower the price.
I'm selling mine at $13k with a very good
profit and it's the same size as most 2seat kitcars. Just
it's designed for production as an EV.
I think any EV done right in the low, medium
or high price range will sell in this market as it's starved
of EV's.
But even on conversions, Sharon and Wayne are
cranking them out just by doing simple, standard S10
conversions. They started with a bunch of surplus forklift
parts and used them to make EV's. Not sure what their
business model is now, but they are making money.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Kit car conversions
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 21:56:53 -0700
>Yes you can make a stunning electric vehicle with a kit car
>, however you must realize that you are not getting a
>complete glider for $5,700. You are getting only the
>body, frame, some suspension parts, doors, seat, and
>dash. You must supply everything else. You will need
>maybe $1,000 to $3,000 in other parts if you do the work
>yourself. Add to that from $4,000 to $30,000 for the EV
>parts, and 500 to 1000 hours of your time. A lot more
>than pulling out the engine and back seats from a
>production car then installing an electric motor and
>batteries. On Oct 6, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Electric Vehicle
>Discussion List wrote:
>
>> From: Geopilot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: October 6, 2006 9:41:19 AM PDT
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: could these be the basis of an electric
>>conversion?
>>
>> http://www.fiberfab.us/default.htmThis kitcar looks
>> incredible and they claim $5700 price.
>
>Mike Swift
>Two things only the people anxiously desirebread and
>circuses.
> Decimus Junius Juvenalls
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These people have done this for years, called them selfs "The west
Philadelphia High School Electric Vehicle Team" but the vehicle doesn't
have a charger or a plug, It is an impressive hybrid. To be fair, they
do however also have a EV jeep. It just seems the sports car gets all
the press.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know of any grant funds from environmental groups that are
available for building EV's for resale?
Curtis Muhlestein
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Can a 3 phase inverter be built to drive any AC motor and not require
> any software in it?
>
Yep. There are many brands of dc motor control that I've repaired
using the HIP4081. The 4086 is the 3 phase version. It's limited to 95
volts. Since the interface is the same for the 4081 and 4086 then
building 3 legs of fets/igbts is all that is needed. The interface for
the 4081 is used for robots, so it already exists. I have several. But
it's stuck at 95 volts.
http://www.intersil.com/cda/deviceinfo/0,0,HIP4086.html
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...or for any research work on EVs, for that matter? (plus, I'm not
particular that the funds come from an environmental group -- those
funds are probably better spent on land and conservation efforts).
I was recently told that a professor at Middle Tennessee State
University (MTSU) had been pretty successfuly in getting various
EV-related grants over the years. I'll try to track him down and let
you know what he says about it.
Matt K.
On 10/7/06, Curtis Muhlestein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Does anyone know of any grant funds from environmental groups that are
available for building EV's for resale?
Curtis Muhlestein
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So in rush hour, bumber to bumper traffic, using the brakes alot, I
could add 1 mile of range to my 40 mile range. I'll take it!!
Also, there are the running light elements in each tail light bulb
that would be changed when the brake lights are changed. More savings.
Then there are the marker lights, front turn signal/running lights and
dash lights too. Still more savings.
So I could easily double your estimate in current savings with all of
the mentioned bulbs being swapped for led's. Many of them are on all
of the time whenever the headlights are on. So there are savings each
time I drive at night. LED headlights would be interesting.
I can tell you I'm sick of my dash lights croaking every couple
thousand miles. That alone would be worth it. Changing those requires
the entire dash bezel that surrounds all of the ducts and dash to be
removed. Then the guage set has to be removed. Done it twice.
Thanks for the math Cor, now I'm even more motivated to change out to
led's.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Normal brake light is 12V 21W
> so with DC/DC inefficiencies the 65W can easily
> draw more than 80W.
>
> Just how often are you braking?
> I think that when I add all the time in my 20 - 25 min
> commute that I am actually sitting on the brake, it
> will total around 2 - 3 min (on level road I do not brake
> once stopped, on slight upramp I keep the accelerator
> a tiny bit depressed to hold the vehicle with an
> unmeasurable amount of current from the pack.)
> Just as unmeasurable as the brake light consumption:
> If you brake for 3 min that will cost you 1/20 (3min/60min)
> times the power consumption (=90W) or about 5Wh.
> If your vehicle is well aligned and needs 200Wh/mi this
> means that the brake lights cost you 1/40 mile range.
> I do not think those 120 feet makes a real difference
> that is so much of a cencern that you should worry
> about them.
> If you drive 1 mph less fast or take off 1/2 second slower
> then you are going to gain much more range.
> Better focus on tire rolling resistance, bearing quality,
> brake drag, aerodynamics and all those other big energy
> consumers, before paying attention to the issues below the
> 0.1% line.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: LED brakelights
>
>
> The emeter shows a drop of .3 amps when I step on the brake pedal. With
> out more accuracy it could be .21 amps at 300v. 60w is close to 3 brake
> lamp elements IIRC.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > At 09:20 PM 10/5/2006, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> > >At 08:55 PM 10/5/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> > >>I'm wanting to replace my 3 brake light bulbs as they pull .3 amps
> > from
> > >>the 300v pack thru the dc-dc. That's just a plain waste. Then there
> > are
> > >>the 2 running light elements as well.
> > >
> > >Wow, you must have BRIGHT brake lights. 900W of power!
> > >
> > >Somehow I don't think your brake lights are pulling 3A out of a 300v
> > pack.
> >
> > Oops, now I see the decimal point.
> > I still doubt your brake lights are pulling 90W of power!
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
> >
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Questions numbered:
1)a)What kind of voltage/amps/watts from your proposed controller? How
about one that will drive any AC motor? b)Are there any common, viable,
off the shelf air cooled AC motors that would be suitable for EV use?
2) You know, all you need to do is prototype the first one then contract
it out to an assembly shop and start selling inverters...
3) If I had any electronic design skills, I'd bang out a rough inverter
that could fully control the speed of an air cooled 1 - 5 horse AC
motor from 0 - any rpm I chose and post the plans on this list. Then
we could scale it up for Zilla+ type power levels.
4) Can a 3 phase inverter be built to drive any AC motor and not require
any software in it?
5) Does someone here have the skills to design the inverter's circuit
board and component layout? Does another have the skills to write the
drive software for it? All we need is something to get started with
and then we can fine tune/tweak/improve it.
6) Rewrite the book on 3 phase inverter motor speed controllers. Must it
REALLY be the hardware equivalent of 3 DC motor controllers?
7) Change DC into AC and drive/power 3 motor phases using one controller?
Chop it, pulse it, route it? Why 3 separate controllers in one? Why
can't one drive all three phases? How did GM do it in '66?
8) Maybe someone in China for example has the skills and would be willing
to design an inverter for a nominal fee? I'd put in some money if it
was assured of being designed. Have it designed, approve the design,
then pay the designer agreed upon fee. The hardest part would be
finding said skilled person.
9) Maybe Arthur Matteson would be willing to build the most powerful
universal AC motor inverter speed controller the world has ever seen
for a realistic price? Time and hardware...
10) Maybe old school it sans printed circuit board. Like an electronic
box from the 1960's or so I saw out of a B-52. Imagine a metal box
full of electronic components all wired and soldered together. No
circuit board anywhere in it. What a site.
General Answers (many on this list can answer better, please correct me
where needed) AC101
1a. watts is watts. lets define Zilla(1K) power levels to be 170V *
1000Amps or 170KW which is about 200hp.
The mechanical commutator basically limits us to 170V. Because of
the way AC Induction motors traditionally have been wound, High
amperages are an issue, but voltages as high as 480V are not much of an
issue. So if we have a 360V pack and design the motor side to run on
340 we can get by on 500A. But even that is high. We can give up the
initial spike the series wound motor is capable of utilize the broader
power band of an AC motor since you are not going to get max amp
launches with the rotor at zero RPM on AC any way, it will melt the
rotor. Lets instead look at current draws longer than a second and see
that from my battery pack I only pull 400A at ~275V(it sags from 300) or
110Kw when the zilla is allowed to push 1000A into the motor. Now we
are talking peak amperage levels of 325Amps.
1b If I am understanding you to mean 60HZ motors then the answer is no.
Think back to old power supplies that used 60HZ magnetics, the
transformers were huge, as the move was made to higher and higer
frequencies the transformer was able to be made smaller and smaller.
When the Frequency is limited by the inexpensive magnetic materials used
in the motor, the RPM is limited. The RPMS are made faster by less poles
and this is less torque.
2) and 3) You are ignoring the scaling issues. A lot of consumer
appliances have 3 phase AC motors and integrate drives now. The issues
come at higher power levels and building for the wide range of rpm's and
the environment of a traction application. What is negligable
inductance int the interconnects on a washing machine will become
Inverter killing inductance at traction power levels.
4) Qualified Yes. But I think that software makes it a lot easier
actually. It allows you to safely have variable speed and make one
inverter work for different motors. There are some limits again at the
higher power end, the inductance of the motor is part of the circuit and
your inverter must be able to drive/handle this. Letting the motor
handle it is wasteful(and damaging), letting the controller handle it
can be spectacularly dangerous
5) There are a couple of people on this list that can and may have, I
would like to try someday. The software is the easy part in my opinion.
There are free code examples avail from the manufactures. It is a time
consuming expensive endevour, requiring some special equipment and
experience. (Gaining experience while on the project is not inexpensive)
6) 7) Errr, yes and no? If you are talking about the amount of switching
elements the factor is 6, if you are talking about the amount of leads
on the end it is 3. Because each phase needs two transistors to select
the direction of flow from the batteries(actually 4 , there are two
connections to each winding, but they share) but only 1/2 are on at any
given time. The H-bridge is the same weather we are talking about 6-step
for BLDC PM motors or AC induction machines. The added position resolver
and on the fly calculations are to prevent rotor meltdown and wasted
energy at rpm's less than base rpm, ie every acceleration from a stop.
(side note: Use 3 or 4 salient pole BLDC motors from a civic hybrid and
the inverter becomes easy, Maybe that is where we should start?)
Perhaps a drawing. remember AC is Alternating the direction of flow in
each winding changes(as does in the armature on DC, just abstracted out
of the motor now)
b+ _____________________________________________
| | |
q1 q2 q3
|__x |___y |___z
| | |
q4 q5 q6
| | |
| | |
b- ---------------------------------------------
The motor is connected to x,y,z and you can view this as three points of
a triangle labled x,y,z and a winding on each side(delta) or three ends
of 3 windings where the other ends are all tied together (Y)
When we turn on Q1 and PWM Q5 power flows from X to Y, when we turn on
Q2 and PWM q4 it flows the opposite way in that same winding.
The computer or discrete software varies the PWM frequency to simulate
the voltage at that point in a theoretical sine curve based on the
positon of the rotor pole under the stator pole and compensated for by
the current level of slip(rotor moving slower than magnetic field in
stator) and the amps. Now I think you see why software is a great
enabler here, making it a lot easier to implement.
8) There are smart people in all countries. of course there are not so
smart ones too. The idea of subbing out to china is because labor is so
cheap, The goverment helps the buisnesses see to it that all people have
a job. Where we have one person at a machine then will put 10.
Once the design is set in stone, then production can move there if
making thousands of them are what you are doing. I would argue that you
could do the same here. Now need to give away the country yet.
9) and 10) I cant answer to these :-)
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--- Begin Message ---
At 07:53 AM 10/7/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
I can tell you I'm sick of my dash lights croaking every couple
thousand miles. That alone would be worth it. Changing those requires
If your dash lights fail that often, you have a problem. Probably
running the voltage too high on the 12v system. Dash lights rarely
burn out on "normal" cars in less than 100,000 miles in my experience.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not generally for resale!
Usually the grantee wants to see the project
_on-going_. Ie, they want a JC to build an EV which
will benefit the school for years to come; ie a Ford
Ranger PU for the custodial staff to use, emission
free, and the welding and automotive depts. will
showcase it as well, so it is a benefit to _both_
departments.
Think outside the box, when it comes to grants.
--- Matt Kenigson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...or for any research work on EVs, for that matter?
> (plus, I'm not
> particular that the funds come from an environmental
> group -- those
> funds are probably better spent on land and
> conservation efforts).
>
> I was recently told that a professor at Middle
> Tennessee State
> University (MTSU) had been pretty successfuly in
> getting various
> EV-related grants over the years. I'll try to track
> him down and let
> you know what he says about it.
>
> Matt K.
>
> On 10/7/06, Curtis Muhlestein
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Does anyone know of any grant funds from
> environmental groups that are
> > available for building EV's for resale?
> >
> >
> >
> > Curtis Muhlestein
> >
> >
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two different drivers in two different trucks, same make and model
though. One road test was not very scientific. The should have repeated
the test several times. Switching drivers and switching which truck had
the tailgate up or down. I have not statistical experience but I don't
think that one data point is enough to form more than a guess--certainly
not a conclusion.
Mike Ellis wrote:
Not that I'm arguing that they got it right, but what about the actual
road test comparison did you object to?
-Mike
On 9/30/06, The Terminator <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mythbusters are Mythcreators on a lot of subjects since they have a long
way to go to learn the scientific method.
Just my bubble burst worth.
Jimmy
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Bob Bath wrote:
I've not been on in awhile, but I thought the only
credits left were for OEMs, not 3rd party conversions.
okay, thanks.
Hope you're in Oregon; we still give credits when the
conversion gets finished!
nope, ohio where if you don't drive an SUV and get less than 10mpg,
you're just not a good american. though i live in a very liberal
community near the Ohio State campus, we are surrounded by people that
still love "dubya" and all is warring, oil grubbing cronies. well, just
remember "term limits save lives" ...hehe
regards,
mike
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I'd be glad to contribute for a "new EV owner journal" segment... Or
you could call it "exploring the mysteries of my new EV"... :)
On 10/7/06, Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anyway, I've got a bit more spare time now, and I'd love to help with
your project.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm planning on setting up a fortnightly or monthly podcast for EV
> owners and enthusiasts. The plan is to include people on a
> world-wide
> level from the UK to the USA and from Eastern Europe to Australia!
>
> The initial podcast would take probably an hour of your time to
> record and would just simply require you to have a broadband
> connection, Skype and a spare hour when we can all get together!
>
> I have some UK people lined up for this but it'd be great to have
> EVers from around the globe involved. We'd aim to make the
> podcast (I
> think) on a weekend Evening (Probably Saturday or Sunday late
> evening GMT)
>
> Any takers?
>
> Nikki.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone direct me to a source for the 3.7 volt rechargable Li-ion
batteries. These are the cells they use in laptop computers. I have been
driving a converted VW Rabbitt for 16 years and I am done buying any
more lead-acid batteries.I figure I need about 6,000 of these cells. I
have found them retail for about $6 each but my price range is more like
$0.20/ each.
I see they are using these in the Tesla, and I'm sure I'm not the first
one to do this. I saw them in the September issue of "Current EVents"
added to the back of a Prius. Also AC Propulsion is offering a converted
Scion with a Li-ion battery pack. I would like to track down the place
in China or Taiwan that actually manufactures these cells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
Does anyone know of any grant funds from environmental groups that are
available for building EV's for resale?
Curtis Muhlestein
check with your states dept. of development or energy. for example in
ohio some corporations got to gather and created this
http://www.odod.state.oh.us/cdd/oee/elfgrant.htm
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jim,
Thanks for the good word! This is actually the controller out of Yellow
Jacket, the 72VDC SEVO/Hi-Torque bike. We are switching it over to just
contactors. The Alltrax controller was awesome, we ran the bike a few times,
but need more amps, so we are going to switch over to a Albright
'controller' and hopefully be able to put on a decent performance at the
Battery Beach Burnout in January.
We asked Alltrax to tune this controller for us. It came new from the
factory with that rating. Alltrax has been very supportive of the race
efforts we have made. I think Brian Hall and maybe one or two others have
had a controller from Alltrax come this way. It is definitely not one of the
'listed services' on their web site. Because they are allowing the
controller to go higher than the rated specs, they don't offer a warranty on
it. We had an ammeter on the bike and we pulled a consistent 730 amps at
launch.
Scott, please email me off list if you have any other questions on it.
Thanks,
Shawn Waggoner
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 730A Alltrax Controller
Hey Scott
That's Shawn Waggoner from SEVO. He's a great guy and member here. I'd
have no problem buying this being I know Shawn, if it meets your needs,
which it should. If you read the description it says they had it custom
built for higher amp rating. Anyway I just thought I'd put in a good word.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Scott Newman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was looking for a 72V controller for a new bike project and I saw this
one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260038736685
I haven't been able to find out anything about a 730A controller from the
Alltrax site. Does anyone know if Alltrax has higher amp controllers? Does
Alltrax build custom controllers?
Thx-
Scooter Scott
--
___________________________________________________
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Business.
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--- Begin Message ---
Here is a web site for tax credit for the different states. I do not know
how current it is. It says that here in Utah you can get up to $2,500 for a
conversion. Check your state out.
http://www.hybridcars.com/incentives.html
Curtis Muhlestein
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Sandman
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 9:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV Tax Credit for Conversion?
Bob Bath wrote:
> I've not been on in awhile, but I thought the only
> credits left were for OEMs, not 3rd party conversions.
okay, thanks.
> Hope you're in Oregon; we still give credits when the
> conversion gets finished!
nope, ohio where if you don't drive an SUV and get less than 10mpg,
you're just not a good american. though i live in a very liberal
community near the Ohio State campus, we are surrounded by people that
still love "dubya" and all is warring, oil grubbing cronies. well, just
remember "term limits save lives" ...hehe
regards,
mike
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--- Begin Message ---
Roy Reker wrote:
Can anyone direct me to a source for the 3.7 volt rechargable Li-ion
batteries. These are the cells they use in laptop computers. I have been
driving a converted VW Rabbitt for 16 years and I am done buying any
more lead-acid batteries.I figure I need about 6,000 of these cells. I
have found them retail for about $6 each but my price range is more like
$0.20/ each.
I see they are using these in the Tesla, and I'm sure I'm not the first
one to do this. I saw them in the September issue of "Current EVents"
added to the back of a Prius. Also AC Propulsion is offering a converted
Scion with a Li-ion battery pack. I would like to track down the place
in China or Taiwan that actually manufactures these cells.
search for li-ion 18650 on google and you will be overwhelmed.
here's the first one i found:
http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=555
regards,
mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Two different drivers in two different trucks, same make and model
> though. One road test was not very scientific. The should have repeated
> the test several times. Switching drivers and switching which truck had
> the tailgate up or down. I have not statistical experience but I don't
> think that one data point is enough to form more than a
guess--certainly
> not a conclusion.
>
The Canadian wind tunnel testing previously mentioned was as
scientific as any other, demonstrating an example of how wind vector
variables can cause poor consistency of results.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
Here is a web site for tax credit for the different states. I do not know
how current it is. It says that here in Utah you can get up to $2,500 for a
conversion. Check your state out.
http://www.hybridcars.com/incentives.html
yea, notice how ohio isn't even listed...our state is WAY behind the
curve on green stuff :(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:45 AM 10/7/2006, Roy Reker wrote:
Can anyone direct me to a source for the 3.7 volt rechargable Li-ion
batteries. These are the cells they use in laptop computers. I have
been driving a converted VW Rabbitt for 16 years and I am done
buying any more lead-acid batteries.I figure I need about 6,000 of
these cells. I have found them retail for about $6 each but my price
range is more like $0.20/ each.
Or try one of these surplus places:
http://www.action-electronics.com/
http://www.allelectronics.com/
http://www.sciplus.com/
http://goldmine-elec.com/
http://www.candhsales.biz/CandH/index.htm
http://www.excess-solutions.com/
http://www.dla.mil/drms
http://www.herbach.com/
http://www.hosfelt.com/
http://www.halted.com/
http://www.jameco.com/
http://www.meci.com/
http://www.mpja.com/
http://www.alltronics.com/
http://www.weirdstuff.com/
http://www.resunltd4u.com/
http://www.surplussales.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/Electronics-From-Golden-O
http://www.shopeio.com/
http://www.surpluscenter.com/
http://www.electronicsurplus.com/
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
At 08:45 AM 10/7/2006, Roy Reker wrote:
Can anyone direct me to a source for the 3.7 volt rechargable Li-ion
batteries. These are the cells they use in laptop computers. I have
been driving a converted VW Rabbitt for 16 years and I am done
buying any more lead-acid batteries.I figure I need about 6,000 of
these cells. I have found them retail for about $6 each but my price
range is more like $0.20/ each.
In addition to those surplus places, you could try:
http://www.batteryspace.com/
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:00 AM 10/7/2006, you wrote:
Two different drivers in two different trucks, same make and model
though. One road test was not very scientific. The should have
repeated the test several times. Switching drivers and switching
which truck had the tailgate up or down. I have not statistical
experience but I don't think that one data point is enough to form
more than a guess--certainly not a conclusion.
I have been told that, despite instincts, it is better
aerodynamically to keep the tailgate UP. The explanation was that
the air inside the truck bed acts like a semi-solid unit, and
downflow from over the cab does not get into the bed much, it just
flows over it. As evidence, have you ever seen a pickup driving down
the road with a piece of paper dancing in the bed, but it doesn't
blow out for miles? With the tailgate down, there is a big negative
pressure zone created behind the cab to the bed floor. I was told
the manufacturers did some serious wind tunnel research on this.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you would be better off with the Valence batteries. A large group
buy could get the prices down but your .20 cents X 6000 = 1200.00 dollars. Did
you mean 2.00 dollars each?
Don
In a message dated 10/7/2006 8:48:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Can anyone direct me to a source for the 3.7 volt rechargable Li-ion
batteries. These are the cells they use in laptop computers. I have been
driving a converted VW Rabbitt for 16 years and I am done buying any
more lead-acid batteries.I figure I need about 6,000 of these cells. I
have found them retail for about $6 each but my price range is more like
$0.20/ each.
I see they are using these in the Tesla, and I'm sure I'm not the first
one to do this. I saw them in the September issue of "Current EVents"
added to the back of a Prius. Also AC Propulsion is offering a converted
Scion with a Li-ion battery pack. I would like to track down the place
in China or Taiwan that actually manufactures these cells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
Don't feel too bad, 6 years ago Utah was 1 of 4 states to be the last to do
net metering. I think Utah is last in a lot of things.
Curtis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Sandman
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 10:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV Tax Credit for Conversion?
Curtis Muhlestein wrote:
> Here is a web site for tax credit for the different states. I do not know
> how current it is. It says that here in Utah you can get up to $2,500 for
a
> conversion. Check your state out.
> http://www.hybridcars.com/incentives.html
yea, notice how ohio isn't even listed...our state is WAY behind the
curve on green stuff :(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about the UCharge 12v
http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp
Anybody know what the cost is on these? Availability?
They look like the perfect solution for an EV, less weight, more cycles.
Mike
> Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries
> I think you would be better off with the Valence batteries. A large group
> buy could get the prices down but your .20 cents X 6000 = 1200.00 dollars.
Did
> you mean 2.00 dollars each?
> Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You'll never find them at $0.20. The lowest you'll find them is about $3-$4
in a very large quantity (name brand). I don't think a no name brand would
be a good idea.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy Reker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 11:45 AM
Subject: Lithium-ion batteries
Can anyone direct me to a source for the 3.7 volt rechargable Li-ion
batteries. These are the cells they use in laptop computers. I have been
driving a converted VW Rabbitt for 16 years and I am done buying any more
lead-acid batteries.I figure I need about 6,000 of these cells. I have
found them retail for about $6 each but my price range is more like $0.20/
each.
I see they are using these in the Tesla, and I'm sure I'm not the first
one to do this. I saw them in the September issue of "Current EVents"
added to the back of a Prius. Also AC Propulsion is offering a converted
Scion with a Li-ion battery pack. I would like to track down the place in
China or Taiwan that actually manufactures these cells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike
I have been talking to Marc at Valence for a long time about their
batteries. They are all set up for an EV if we could get a serious group buy
going the
prices would still be high but I believe better than anything else out there
for the money.
Don
In a message dated 10/7/2006 10:01:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
What about the UCharge 12v
http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp
Anybody know what the cost is on these? Availability?
They look like the perfect solution for an EV, less weight, more cycles.
Mike
> Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries
> I think you would be better off with the Valence batteries. A large group
> buy could get the prices down but your .20 cents X 6000 = 1200.00 dollars.
Did
> you mean 2.00 dollars each?
> Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess it would depend on what you mean by the cost still being high.
I still have to figure out what the application would be.
Which battery would I use to run my Porsche 914?
How do I calculate how many I would need, at what amp?
Are there any special considerations with these types of batteries over
lead?
(It says it can use a standard charger, so I don't know)
I just got my books, so I'll be reading up on this stuff, but if these
batteries will get me greater range/performance AND last longer, and are
maintenance free (no watering) I'd be willing to pay up to 3X the cost of
lead.
Is that not high enough?
Mike
> Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
> Hello Mike
> I have been talking to Marc at Valence for a long time about their
> batteries. They are all set up for an EV if we could get a serious group
buy going the
> prices would still be high but I believe better than anything else out
there
> for the money.
> Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
Here is a schematic for monitoring the low voltage threshold of
roughly a 12v battery...
http://www.rotordesign.com/s10/cellmon/cellmon1.pdf
Workable, but complex. A few problems:
- D1 is backwards
- R6 is unnecessary
- it requires a regulated power supply (not shown)
- high power consumption from the battery
- poor temperature stability
- no noise filtering
I'm looking to build a set of window comparators for the display
side of my bms. The older ACP cars have one led per battery.
The led lights when the battery's voltage goes above 13v.
It gets brighter the further above 13v it goes.
The same is true during discharge. The Led comes on at about
11 volts and gets brighter the further below 11 volts it goes.
If this is all you want to do, try this circuit I posted back in July 2004:
_________________________
| D1 | |
| 6.8v _|_/ U1 > R2
| zener //_\ __|\|__ > 2.2k
+__|__ | | |/| | >
12v ___ A |___| |___| B
- | | | U2 | |
| > |__|/|__| _|_/ D2
| R3 > R1 |\| //_\ 6.8v
| 100 > 2.2k | zener
|__/\/\___|_______________|
U1 and U2 are the LEDs of darlington optocouplers. U1 lights for high
battery voltages; U2 for low. Pick optos with high gain (high CTR) to
minimize load current on the 12v battery and to make the dash LEDs as
bright as possible. Pick the zeners and resistors to get the desired
thresholds and to set how gradually you want the LEDs to light up as the
voltages change.
The dash display could use a single LED, or 2-wire red/green LEDs, or
3-wire red/green LEDs, or of course 2 separate LEDs.
3-wire red/green LED 2-wire red/green LED: single LED
or separate hi/low LEDs fault indicator
+12v_________ +12v__________________ +12v________
| | | | | |
U1 |/ |/ U2 > green > U1 |/ |/ U2
|\ |\ 1k > __|\|__ > 1k |\ |\
_|_ _|_ > | |/| | < |_____|
_\_/_ _\_/_ |___| |___| _|_
green |______| red | | red | | fault _\_/_
| | |__|/|__| | LED |
> |/ |\| |/ >
1k > |\ U2 U1 |\ 1k >
> GND___|_______________| >
GND______| GND______|
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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