EV Digest 5985
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: $25,000 Performance Car
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: cost effetive, long range EV's
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) IB9000 batteries
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: WKTEC in Geneva Ny Oct 13-15-16-17
by "chestnutforge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: LED brakelights
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: LED brakelights
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Join In! WAS : AC vs DC?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Getting an AC motor inverter built
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) EV safety
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Advice On Buying An S10
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy ( Michaela EV Disappointment)
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Vacuum Reservoir
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Green is Red Hot
by Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: cost effetive, long range EV's
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) New Neon Kit, was New to the list
by canev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Community Blogging and Forum site?
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:41 AM 10/8/2006, Lee Hart wrote:
Oh, and price-wise, $160 is on the high side; $120-$140 is more
typical if you're buying enough for an EV.
Not any more Lee. I did LOTS of shopping around, and the best price
I found was about $156 ea in Qty 13.
I ended up paying $160 ea at CostCo since that was 2 hours less
driving time to get them.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:05 AM 10/8/2006, jerryd wrote:
Take my soon to be done EV that weights 600 lbs
without batteries, over twice that with, yet the battery
pack only costs $800 and will get me between 100 and 150
mile range on a charge and 80mph+ top speed.
Jerry, I REALLY REALLY hope you succeed in those specs, but I admit
to being a doubting thomas, mainly due to the number of people who
have claimed such on Not Yet Built vehicles.
If your vehicle DOES meed those specs, I'm very likely to buy one!
Generally, I don't believe specs until it's been built and tested.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:13 AM 10/8/2006, Jack Murray wrote:
I think the short-term solution is NiMH batteries, and in particular
the ones I mentioned just recently, Intellect's new 9Ah D-cells.
Compare to a Optima Yellow Top, that is 24Ah C/1, at 50% dod just
12Ah, and weigh 20Kg, price is about $160.
20 cells of IB9000 would be 18Ah, weigh 3.5Kg, and cost $120.
That is 1/5th the weight and even less cost!
And Google can't find a mention of these anywhere except on this list...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
We enjoyed the ride yesterday. I can't go to the show on Monday the
16th, I have a class.
Would you like me to come to your place to pick up your Shooter & Mower for
the show
they could be left on the back of my truck thus, not requiring any more
loading & un loading.
Let my know what you would like? I am able to attend all the other days, but
I don't remember the times.
Peace,
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: WKTEC in Geneva Ny Oct 13-15-16-17
> I will be displaying an EV (solectria force) in front of the WKTEC theatre
> in Geneva Ny-Smith opera House ( thesmith.org ) and handing out flyers
> etc.Might bring my elec lawn mower and daughters elec scooter too. Sounds
> like quite a few people around the country are doing the same thing
> lately.Any local ev people be sure to show up and help me strut our
stuff.
> Mike Young -solectria force cars
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 5:22 PM
> Subject: WKTEC in Langley, WA. Oct 10-12th
>
>
> >I finally got ahold of the Theater, and I'll be parking my Sparrow right
> >out in front. I'm also planning on being there before and after the
movie
> >on Tuesday, and before the movie on Weds and Thurs.
> > I'm going to get some of the flyers other people have mentioned,
including
> > some of the ones from the EAA site. (For the ones I end up printing
> > myself, I'm going to add SEVA contact info to them!)
> >
> > So, I won't be at the SEVA meeting on Tuesday, I'll be at a different
> > EVent!
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess I'm just plain lucky. They've burned out on me with lots of
cars. This truck runs at 14-14.3v.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At 07:53 AM 10/7/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
> >I can tell you I'm sick of my dash lights croaking every couple
> >thousand miles. That alone would be worth it. Changing those requires
>
> If your dash lights fail that often, you have a problem. Probably
> running the voltage too high on the 12v system. Dash lights rarely
> burn out on "normal" cars in less than 100,000 miles in my experience.
>
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:45 AM 10/8/2006, Mike Phillips wrote:
I guess I'm just plain lucky. They've burned out on me with lots of
cars. This truck runs at 14-14.3v.
Curious. The only time I had dash lights burn out was when my
voltage regulator failed, and cranked the voltage WAY up to something like 20V.
Hmm, did you rewire your car? Any chance you used better wiring than
the manufacturer = less voltage drop?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Bob,
Are you guys getting together this coming Saturday?
I think I really need to see an electric car in person (maybe get a ride?)
Could you send me directions (off list if you prefer).
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Join In! WAS : AC vs DC?
Hi Mike;
OK you're just down the road! Had a kid do 4 years at UCONN, so I'm VERY
familier with Storrs.Cool, we meet at my place in Killingworth, about an
hour down the back roads from Storrs. We have at least ONE show up, I mean
cars, I have some EV's in various stages of construction, right now.Some
Electracs and lots of parts an' goodies, about the house.As for guyz? Well,
it varies, but usually a dozen or so, depending on their other commitments.
There is ANOTHER EV Chapter, up in Amhearst MA, too. I havent been up to
their gettogether, yet. I should, to try to help support the Club thing.I
think ?? they are the FIRST week, of the month, we are the Second Sat, each
month.We set it up that way for the Two Timers, to get both in in one month.
...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee:
Thank you for your suggestions. However: It is not as easy as it sounds.
Where am I supposed to put the window a/c? Put it in the rear window,
restrict my view and look like some red neck (hmm .. I could add a rebel
flag to make it look perfect ;) And what kind of an inverter should I get?
A 12V system that flattens my poor battery even more? Since there are no
integrated DC-DC/battery charger combinations available, I have enough
trouble with DC-DC keeping up with the load as it is now. I tried to find
inverters for pack voltage -> household current, but all I found was a
120V DC version that delivers about 1000W.
It's not the range that bothers me. I can live with 50 Miles. It's the
little things that drive me nuts. Like i.e. a/c., regen, weak DC-DC
without charging capabilities, overheating controllers, unreliable EMeter,
not to mention battery care and winter related problems and the
possibilities of catastrophic failures, like full power on controller
melt-down.
Every topic in itself would be managable. But the combination of all would
take months of work and a lot of cold hard cash.
I realize now, that a lot of folks have a lot of fun to build and tinker
with their EVs. It's a hobby for them and I respect that. I just want a
reliable truck that serves my needs. I am not an amateur mechanic willing
to spend the weekend welding, soldering or metal working.
That leaves us with the environmental aspects. The other day, while I was
in Germany, I stood at a 'autobahn' while my husband was getting something
to drink. I counted 383 cars and trucks in 5 minutes. All going 80 miles
or faster (well, not the trucks). Let's assume, all those cars and trucks
have an average gas mileage of 30 mpg. Lets further assume, that all those
vehicles were just driving 30 miles. That leaves us with 383 Gallons of
burned fuel in just that 5 Minutes in only that tiny little strip of
highway somewhere in Germany.
So - am I willing to kid myself by thinking I am actually changing
anything by avoiding an ICE truck? The problem has to be solved
differently, not by a few guys (and girls) like us who are driving EVs.
Michaela
> Michaela Merz wrote:
>> I am now calmer, more disappointed I have to confess... Most of the
>> current 'home brew' EVs are no better than they were in the 90s...
>> My truck is heavy with floodies, has neither power steering nor
>> regenerative braking or a/c, the batteries require more service
>> than I would ever be willing to provide to its ICE counterpart,
>> the range is limited and I will have to provide all maintenance
>> and service myself as no garage or repair shop is willing to touch
>> my truck.
>
> I understand that feeling! Sometimes, I wonder if it's all worthwhile.
> It's so easy to be like everyone else. We're all richer than the kings
> of olde, right? Let someone else worry about the future, do all the hard
> work, clean the toilets, pay for everything. Me first, everyone else last.
>
> But if we don't build a future we like, we will be forced to live in a
> future that someone *else* wanted. In their future, YOU and your kids
> will clean their toilets, and will pay for their lavish life style!
>
> So, I putz with my EVs when I could be out ruining the environment for
> fun. I buy batteries, while my neighbors buy Hummers to tow their ATVs
> to the National forests. I put up solar panels while they put in heated
> swimming pools. Yes, it's more work and I get treated as a nut. But I
> feel a lot better about myself. And, I can look the kids in the eye and
> tell them that I'm helping to build a future they will want to live in!
>
>> I am a bit envious when my husband pulls into the driveway, his a/c
>> humming, leisurely moving the steering wheel with just one finger.
>
> That's fixable. The thing about EVs is that *everything* is fixable.
> That's not so true with ICEs!
>
> With your pickup, you could get a $99 window air conditioner, an
> inverter, and have air conditioning. If your husband's air conditioner
> breaks, it will cost him 10 times the price to get it fixed.
>
> If your pickup ever had power steering, it can be put back in operation
> by adding a pulley to drive the stock pump from the back of the DC
> traction motor.
>
> Fixing the A/C or power steering, or any other stock system that the
> vehicle had is no different on an EV than for an ICE. Local garages
> should have no problems doing brakes, tires, glass, A/C, power steering,
> and other body work.
>
>> I'd rather would have planted a few trees on our ranch to compensate
>> for the pollution I would be causing with an ICE.
>
> I guess it depends on whether you can fool yourself into thinking that
> planting a few trees actually means anything compared to burning 1000
> gallons of gasoline a year. :-)
>
>> So - I am waiting a few more months if somebody comes up with better
>> (cheaper?) batteries or other technology that makes life easier. Should
>> nothing happen, I will part with my EV, put it on EBay (Great EV, 60
>> Miles
>> range, NEVER BUY GAS AGAIN) and get myself a nice little 6 cylinder
>> Chevy
>> Pickup. With power steering, a/c and service contract.
>
> ... and put your present EV's parts into it! Then you will have A/C,
> power steering, and can still get it serviced :-)
>
> The key is to learn from your mistakes, and move forward; not back away
> from all progress just because it isn't perfect the first time.
> --
> A cat that steps on a hot stove learns not to sit on the stove.
> But it won't sit on a warm stove, either. I like to think people are
> smarter than cats. -- Mark Twain
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela, a few things that might help:
1. The "little things": Siemens AC has regen and integrated DC-DC that is
more than suitable to the task. The controllers and motors are water cooled
and do not overheat. Nor during a power failure to they have catastrophic
full on power. These are OEM quality made for OEM cars and are very very
durable (10 year warranty)
2. Reliability: Many, many people who drive EVs are not tinkers and are
reliably driving their EVs everyday without problems. Both DC and AC. These
range from home built, to professionally converted or (older) production
EVs.
3. Environmental aspects: think globally/act locally - every bit helps.
You cannot prevent others acting but can change the way you think and do.
4. Do you need to be an amateur mechanic?: No. Many people who are not
tinkerers have a car professionally converted for them. E.g. Randy at
CanEV.com has been doing it for years and delivering a reliable service and
product.
5. Air Conditioning: do you live in a climate that really requires it? I
live on the coast, and AC is nice, but really I only use it a few times a
year. For the little time I am in my car, rolling down the window works
just fine. Of course your situation may be completely different. I have
seen professionally converted cars that still support the existing air
conditioning system.
6. Integrated DC-DC & charger: What is so important that the DC-DC be
integrated with the charger - is it really that bad? I am confused.
I have been driving my New Beetle for about a year and a half - most every
day. Not once have I had a problem with the drive system, DC-DC, batteries,
charger. This car has been extremely reliable. Many, many others have this
same experience. Some are tinkerers, others just drive.
There are positives, just look for them.
Don
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michaela Merz
Sent: October 8, 2006 3:24 AM
To: Lee Hart
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
Lee:
Thank you for your suggestions. However: It is not as easy as it sounds.
Where am I supposed to put the window a/c? Put it in the rear window,
restrict my view and look like some red neck (hmm .. I could add a rebel
flag to make it look perfect ;) And what kind of an inverter should I get?
A 12V system that flattens my poor battery even more? Since there are no
integrated DC-DC/battery charger combinations available, I have enough
trouble with DC-DC keeping up with the load as it is now. I tried to find
inverters for pack voltage -> household current, but all I found was a 120V
DC version that delivers about 1000W.
It's not the range that bothers me. I can live with 50 Miles. It's the
little things that drive me nuts. Like i.e. a/c., regen, weak DC-DC without
charging capabilities, overheating controllers, unreliable EMeter, not to
mention battery care and winter related problems and the possibilities of
catastrophic failures, like full power on controller melt-down.
Every topic in itself would be managable. But the combination of all would
take months of work and a lot of cold hard cash.
I realize now, that a lot of folks have a lot of fun to build and tinker
with their EVs. It's a hobby for them and I respect that. I just want a
reliable truck that serves my needs. I am not an amateur mechanic willing to
spend the weekend welding, soldering or metal working.
That leaves us with the environmental aspects. The other day, while I was in
Germany, I stood at a 'autobahn' while my husband was getting something to
drink. I counted 383 cars and trucks in 5 minutes. All going 80 miles or
faster (well, not the trucks). Let's assume, all those cars and trucks have
an average gas mileage of 30 mpg. Lets further assume, that all those
vehicles were just driving 30 miles. That leaves us with 383 Gallons of
burned fuel in just that 5 Minutes in only that tiny little strip of highway
somewhere in Germany.
So - am I willing to kid myself by thinking I am actually changing anything
by avoiding an ICE truck? The problem has to be solved differently, not by
a few guys (and girls) like us who are driving EVs.
Michaela
> Michaela Merz wrote:
>> I am now calmer, more disappointed I have to confess... Most of the
>> current 'home brew' EVs are no better than they were in the 90s...
>> My truck is heavy with floodies, has neither power steering nor
>> regenerative braking or a/c, the batteries require more service than
>> I would ever be willing to provide to its ICE counterpart, the range
>> is limited and I will have to provide all maintenance and service
>> myself as no garage or repair shop is willing to touch my truck.
>
> I understand that feeling! Sometimes, I wonder if it's all worthwhile.
> It's so easy to be like everyone else. We're all richer than the kings
> of olde, right? Let someone else worry about the future, do all the
> hard work, clean the toilets, pay for everything. Me first, everyone else
last.
>
> But if we don't build a future we like, we will be forced to live in a
> future that someone *else* wanted. In their future, YOU and your kids
> will clean their toilets, and will pay for their lavish life style!
>
> So, I putz with my EVs when I could be out ruining the environment for
> fun. I buy batteries, while my neighbors buy Hummers to tow their ATVs
> to the National forests. I put up solar panels while they put in
> heated swimming pools. Yes, it's more work and I get treated as a nut.
> But I feel a lot better about myself. And, I can look the kids in the
> eye and tell them that I'm helping to build a future they will want to
live in!
>
>> I am a bit envious when my husband pulls into the driveway, his a/c
>> humming, leisurely moving the steering wheel with just one finger.
>
> That's fixable. The thing about EVs is that *everything* is fixable.
> That's not so true with ICEs!
>
> With your pickup, you could get a $99 window air conditioner, an
> inverter, and have air conditioning. If your husband's air conditioner
> breaks, it will cost him 10 times the price to get it fixed.
>
> If your pickup ever had power steering, it can be put back in
> operation by adding a pulley to drive the stock pump from the back of
> the DC traction motor.
>
> Fixing the A/C or power steering, or any other stock system that the
> vehicle had is no different on an EV than for an ICE. Local garages
> should have no problems doing brakes, tires, glass, A/C, power
> steering, and other body work.
>
>> I'd rather would have planted a few trees on our ranch to compensate
>> for the pollution I would be causing with an ICE.
>
> I guess it depends on whether you can fool yourself into thinking that
> planting a few trees actually means anything compared to burning 1000
> gallons of gasoline a year. :-)
>
>> So - I am waiting a few more months if somebody comes up with better
>> (cheaper?) batteries or other technology that makes life easier.
>> Should nothing happen, I will part with my EV, put it on EBay (Great
>> EV, 60 Miles range, NEVER BUY GAS AGAIN) and get myself a nice little
>> 6 cylinder Chevy Pickup. With power steering, a/c and service
>> contract.
>
> ... and put your present EV's parts into it! Then you will have A/C,
> power steering, and can still get it serviced :-)
>
> The key is to learn from your mistakes, and move forward; not back
> away from all progress just because it isn't perfect the first time.
> --
> A cat that steps on a hot stove learns not to sit on the stove.
> But it won't sit on a warm stove, either. I like to think people are
> smarter than cats. -- Mark Twain
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dustin Stern wrote:
Mike,
I think the problem your going to find is that with hardware, unlike
software, people have to pay for parts, not just time. As a former
programmer (now PM), who worked on Java projects, I'm very familiar with
open source code. And I hear you when you say it has been tried in the
hardware world. But I think costs, sharing the hardware, then ordering the
special items needed by the members, is going to slow the project down.
hi dustin! keep in mind, i am only talking about the design(s) not the
actual building of components. i agree, trying to share parts would be
a nightmare.
Lastly, you'll need someone who is willing to set the whole thing up - a web
site, a distribution network for sharing parts and chemicals (batteries =
chemicals), etc.
i would be happy to provide the website, forum, wiki, domain name, etc.
for this. i already servers available :)
Lastly, I suspect it isn't entirely necessary. I'm not sure Mike if you're
mainly focusing on the an AC motor inverter or batteries. Either way I'd
say technology does exists which can do the job.
yes, it exists. but perhaps i'd like to improve it. it would be easier
if i had a set of design docs. btw, i am not talking about AC vs DC, or
even just controllers necessarily.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
I've been in the OSMC group for 5 years as of this month. Awesome
project. That hardware helped make us National Champions a couple of
times.
If an AC system was tackled with the same fervor we'd be all set. But
when I tried to get the OSMC guys to really go for a 3 phase system it
just didn't take. So I went off and learned how to rebuild them as a
teaching aid to designing them.
perhaps it is time to try again? with people from this list?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote -
> The key is to learn from your mistakes, and move forward; not back away
> from all progress just because it isn't perfect the first time.
Learning how to learn is very hard... it takes lots of introspection and re
evaluating goals. It seems like this group is very good at that. There are
quite a few people here that continuously answer questions (or say see the
archives) and we slowly and painfully make progress.
Many thanks to everybody for all your contributions.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe Borges wrote:
I suppose it may work but the question is do you agree to let car makers
take "our work" and making profits ?
yes, in fact i would hope that they do. they will be able to not only
improve the design (that would need contributed back) but i suspect
build it cheaper and at at higher quality than i could in my shop. i
see it like this:
- they make money.
- people get better controllers
- we all learn something
- we advance the EV state-of-the-art
- more EVs on the road
We can think it's not going to happen soon but later ? once all is debuged
and working find...
yes! and i hope *they* will be the ones *paying* for a lot of the testing.
I know i'm already far on this projet suposition but i would ask to have a
clause that clearly state than
this community work is freely usable by individual and EV only companies !
for
others (ICE car makers) they have to pay XX dolars to use it. this money is
put in the community to purchase tooling, product testing etc.
i would be okay with licensing the technology at a profit to the group
for commercial use of the designs. IANAL but i have read this book:
http://www.rosenlaw.com/oslbook.htm
i am convinced such a license could be drafted. perhaps some of our
barristers could pipe up here.
But i like the idea for sure as it should speed up a lot EV market, but in
the same time
people living from this EV market will lose little "power" and probably
money too but i think not much
as there is always people who can't make PCB assembly etc. themselves.
exactly!
we need maybe:
-controller design group
-Batterie management and monitoring group
-moteur research group
-synergetic people to go from group to group
i like all that!
...
but we need first people acceptace to the idea that work result is not only
<your> work but group
work and individual money business is not part of the process.
alone i built my house but together we built cathedrales :^)
you got it!!! could not have said it better...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Mike Sandman wrote:
In my world, when someone (or a small group) needs something, they
build it. Then they do something amazing. They *give* it to the
community.
In fact, this is exactly what is happening with hobby EVs, due to the
existence of resources like the EV list!
yes! i missed this, but you are exactly right. perhaps a way to start is
to simply begin consolidating all the good stuff here into a knowledge
base--something a bit easier then searching the archives. wiki?
This has been tried in the hardware world too. I use this controller
to play around. it is completely open, schematics, software driver,
etc... http://www.makingthings.com/makecontrollerkit/index.htm
That's not a "controller" in the EV sense; it's just a tiny piece of one
-- perhaps 1% of an EV controller.
correct! i meant that i use it to play with things like home automation,
nothing related to EVs. however, i do plan to use it to feed an in car
LCD "instrument panel"
The idea you're describing works well for certain kinds of problems.
Software is ideal, because you have 100 million identical computers
(PCs) and users. If even 1% of users want a program, that's still a
million customers. If even 1% of these are able to write such a program,
that's 10,000 developers. If even 1% of them are willing to donate their
work, they create 100 "free" programs to choose from.
do you think there might be commonalities with the EV hobbyist's world
that could be exploited.
But the EV market it tiny, and fragmented into many incompatible
systems. The circuits I design generally won't work on more than a few
other people's EV. Even if 10% of them are willing to contribute any
improvements, that's less than one person -- so nothing comes back to
me. Thus there's little to build on.
perhaps completed designs is too big a first step. maybe a list of best
practices and patterns to start. then as people begin to close the gap
on EV conversion approaches, designs will naturally start to emerge???
-mike
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Jerry D wrote -
> Take my soon to be done EV that weights 600 lbs
> without batteries, over twice that with, yet the battery
> pack only costs $800 and will get me between 100 and 150
> mile range on a charge and 80mph+ top speed.
Jerry,
As soon as I get my S-10 going... I was thinking of taking one of the 84'
Mitsu PU's that I have, stripping the body off, and putting a truly unique aero
shell on it with all the EV components inside.
But a question comes up about safety. What would happen to me in a crash. How
have you dealt with that? What is a side impact or even rolling over at 60+ MPH
going to do to your EV and its occupants?
I don't mean to be negative, I was just wondering how you have dealt with the
safety at high speeds problem?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
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--- Begin Message ---
It seems the EV Bones people are reputable but I can't speak from
experience. Maybe someone else on the list can enlighten us. Please
include Marcos email as shown below in the bcc line. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcos Estebez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 7:55 AM
Subject: Advice On Buying An S10
> Lawrence,
>
> I'm looking into buying an S10 from EV Bones. Do you know anything about
> them?
>
> What kinds of questions can I ask to make sure I'm getting a good vehicle?
>
> I'd really appreciate any input you could give me!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marcos Estebez
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Well, AC could be put in, DC-DC/controller could be fixed... Many people put
in AC in EVs. Don't you just need to hook up a motor to the compressor,
what's the problem?...
But the truth is EVs aren't really saving the enviroment much, at least not
at this moment, anyway.. Electricity? Coal = dirty. Manufacturing of
batteries and various components? Polluting. Constructing and maintaining
the very roads we ride on? Polluting. Isn't asphalt made from oil? And this
is only one car, like you said. So if it's for enviromental reasons, don't
really bother.
I guess you should just get an ICE truck and be done with it. And maybe look
at EVs later in the future. Everybody will. ICE will be extinct eventually,
as gasoline is the only fuel that's economical to run them. Ethanol and
Biodiesel have a lot of problems of their own, and will probably never gain
huge popularity as the main fuel to quench the thirst of so many cars.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: Lithium-ion batteries & Valence Group buy
Lee:
Thank you for your suggestions. However: It is not as easy as it sounds.
Where am I supposed to put the window a/c? Put it in the rear window,
restrict my view and look like some red neck (hmm .. I could add a rebel
flag to make it look perfect ;) And what kind of an inverter should I get?
A 12V system that flattens my poor battery even more? Since there are no
integrated DC-DC/battery charger combinations available, I have enough
trouble with DC-DC keeping up with the load as it is now. I tried to find
inverters for pack voltage -> household current, but all I found was a
120V DC version that delivers about 1000W.
It's not the range that bothers me. I can live with 50 Miles. It's the
little things that drive me nuts. Like i.e. a/c., regen, weak DC-DC
without charging capabilities, overheating controllers, unreliable EMeter,
not to mention battery care and winter related problems and the
possibilities of catastrophic failures, like full power on controller
melt-down.
Every topic in itself would be managable. But the combination of all would
take months of work and a lot of cold hard cash.
I realize now, that a lot of folks have a lot of fun to build and tinker
with their EVs. It's a hobby for them and I respect that. I just want a
reliable truck that serves my needs. I am not an amateur mechanic willing
to spend the weekend welding, soldering or metal working.
That leaves us with the environmental aspects. The other day, while I was
in Germany, I stood at a 'autobahn' while my husband was getting something
to drink. I counted 383 cars and trucks in 5 minutes. All going 80 miles
or faster (well, not the trucks). Let's assume, all those cars and trucks
have an average gas mileage of 30 mpg. Lets further assume, that all those
vehicles were just driving 30 miles. That leaves us with 383 Gallons of
burned fuel in just that 5 Minutes in only that tiny little strip of
highway somewhere in Germany.
So - am I willing to kid myself by thinking I am actually changing
anything by avoiding an ICE truck? The problem has to be solved
differently, not by a few guys (and girls) like us who are driving EVs.
Michaela
Michaela Merz wrote:
I am now calmer, more disappointed I have to confess... Most of the
current 'home brew' EVs are no better than they were in the 90s...
My truck is heavy with floodies, has neither power steering nor
regenerative braking or a/c, the batteries require more service
than I would ever be willing to provide to its ICE counterpart,
the range is limited and I will have to provide all maintenance
and service myself as no garage or repair shop is willing to touch
my truck.
I understand that feeling! Sometimes, I wonder if it's all worthwhile.
It's so easy to be like everyone else. We're all richer than the kings
of olde, right? Let someone else worry about the future, do all the hard
work, clean the toilets, pay for everything. Me first, everyone else
last.
But if we don't build a future we like, we will be forced to live in a
future that someone *else* wanted. In their future, YOU and your kids
will clean their toilets, and will pay for their lavish life style!
So, I putz with my EVs when I could be out ruining the environment for
fun. I buy batteries, while my neighbors buy Hummers to tow their ATVs
to the National forests. I put up solar panels while they put in heated
swimming pools. Yes, it's more work and I get treated as a nut. But I
feel a lot better about myself. And, I can look the kids in the eye and
tell them that I'm helping to build a future they will want to live in!
I am a bit envious when my husband pulls into the driveway, his a/c
humming, leisurely moving the steering wheel with just one finger.
That's fixable. The thing about EVs is that *everything* is fixable.
That's not so true with ICEs!
With your pickup, you could get a $99 window air conditioner, an
inverter, and have air conditioning. If your husband's air conditioner
breaks, it will cost him 10 times the price to get it fixed.
If your pickup ever had power steering, it can be put back in operation
by adding a pulley to drive the stock pump from the back of the DC
traction motor.
Fixing the A/C or power steering, or any other stock system that the
vehicle had is no different on an EV than for an ICE. Local garages
should have no problems doing brakes, tires, glass, A/C, power steering,
and other body work.
I'd rather would have planted a few trees on our ranch to compensate
for the pollution I would be causing with an ICE.
I guess it depends on whether you can fool yourself into thinking that
planting a few trees actually means anything compared to burning 1000
gallons of gasoline a year. :-)
So - I am waiting a few more months if somebody comes up with better
(cheaper?) batteries or other technology that makes life easier. Should
nothing happen, I will part with my EV, put it on EBay (Great EV, 60
Miles
range, NEVER BUY GAS AGAIN) and get myself a nice little 6 cylinder
Chevy
Pickup. With power steering, a/c and service contract.
... and put your present EV's parts into it! Then you will have A/C,
power steering, and can still get it serviced :-)
The key is to learn from your mistakes, and move forward; not back away
from all progress just because it isn't perfect the first time.
--
A cat that steps on a hot stove learns not to sit on the stove.
But it won't sit on a warm stove, either. I like to think people are
smarter than cats. -- Mark Twain
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> How do folks create vacuum reservoirs that actually hold a vacuum?
Having learned by trial an error here is my solution to a vacuum reservoir.
I use 4" PVC scheduel 40 pipe & end caps. I drill & tap one end cap for a
barbed fitting.
The problem I first encountered was that the joints between the pipe and end
caps started leaking, due to flexing the glued joint under vacuum. After
discovering the cause of the leak I applied a bead of "GOOP" (plumbing repair
stuff found at Home DEPOT) around the end cap joints and then fired up the
vacuum pump which pulled the "GOOP" into the joint. That was a year ago and I
havent had a leak since.
I hopw this helps.
Pat
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--- Begin Message ---
The Oct 6-8, 2006 "USA Weekend" weekly newspaper magazine is featuring
its 2006 Auto Issue where "Today's coolest cars are also better for the
environment.". Front and center is the Tesla. There are positive
comments about PHEVs from Felix Kramer and a researched conclusion by
Sherry Broschert that PHEVs **and** EVs reduce greenhouse gas emissions
significantly. Chelsea Sexton and Alexandra Paul also have succinct
points that are at the heart of where we should be going. Overall, a
very positive article mixed in with a few ICEd cars.
Here's the URL to the article but without the pretty pictures:
http://www.usaweekend.com/06_issues/061008/061008auto.html
Hydrogen is mentioned in a definition: "Hydrogen - an element that can
power fuel cells; touted as the zero-emission fuel of the future, it
faces technical and distribution obstacles."
Overall, I thought it a well written article and very positive toward us.
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: cost effetive, long range EV's
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 07:35:07 -0700
>At 07:05 AM 10/8/2006, jerryd wrote:
>> Take my soon to be done EV that weights 600 lbs
>>without batteries, over twice that with, yet the battery
>>pack only costs $800 and will get me between 100 and 150
>>mile range on a charge and 80mph+ top speed.
>
>Jerry, I REALLY REALLY hope you succeed in those specs, but
>I admit to being a doubting thomas, mainly due to the
>number of people who have claimed such on Not Yet Built
>vehicles. If your vehicle DOES meed those specs, I'm very
>likely to buy one! Generally, I don't believe specs until
>it's been built and tested.
I agree and they are peliminary but according to the
EVA performance prediction charts, it will do those specs.
Of course it won't do 100 miles at 80 mph, probably only 60
miles, but if you let it rest, you can still go a fair
amount farther as the charge comes to the battery plate's
surface. If one doesn't want to go 80 mph, it can go even
farther with more economical gearing, lower top speed of
65mph or so.
Range at 35-40 mph steady gets you above 150 miles
which is how most people will drive it, going to one place,
shopping, ect then to the next errand. Like that you will
get a lot of useful amphrs you can't get with a smaler pack.
At about 60 mph, mileage should be about 100. Having 60%
battery weight really helps along with low drag of 60 to 130
wthrs/mile depending on speed. And that's with T105's. Go
to T125-45's and you go farther. Some may not want that much
and go to 8v batts or 48vdc packs. So as they say, range is
variable ;^D
To see another example, the Red Beastie was also a
60% batt EV I believe and look what it did. Of course it
weighed 3x's as much as mine but the ratio's are similar.
And you are not the only one who wants one. I expect
to sell out my next yrs production, about 20-30 units,
within 2 weeks after it's prototype being finished next
month. Some are already spoken for by those who have helped
me.
One can order it without EV drive/batts and put in
whatever one likes. It's designed to be easily repaired,
upgraded by most anyone. I can't think of anything that
would take more than 30 minutes to fix or replace. Once well
into production, I expect it to take less than 20 man-hrs to
build.
Well I have to go cut out the doors now. It's going
to be a rather busy month.
Jerry Dycus
>
>--
>John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
>http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
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Hi Nathaniel, I'm 6'2 and find some conversions tight. We have developed a new
conversion kit for the Dodge Neon which gives a good 50-70 km range and very
nice performance.
It uses the Trojan T1275 (12 volt) golf cart battery (or anything else you may
want to use) so battery life should be good.
The Neon has enough head room for me and the car seats 5.
The other way to go if you need more range is the S-10 extended cab truck with
jump seats. The S-10 is our most popular kit, we are shipping about two kits a
month at the moment which is way up from our past 2 a year (for the last 16
years)!!
BFN
Randy
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
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--- Begin Message ---
Seeing how I've been asking a lot from the list, and been frustrated by the
information I've been receiving. It got me thinking.
Part of my frustration was (and is) in my initial research, which granted
wasn't an overwhelming amount, but nevertheless about a week's worth of
searching and finding very limited information about conversions.
Evalbum is nice, but it lacks detail. Most entries have very limited
information and don't provide a whole lot to go on.
I've seen others mention a central place for the best information to be
archived, outside of the list archive, which is absolutely PAINFUL to find
information on while filtering through all the noise.
So I figured I would offer my services in what I do best. Community Website
building.
If I built a community site for blogging and discussions about EVs and EV
conversion projects, would anyone be interested in using it?
The site would be absolutely free to join and blog, and I guarantee it would
be a quality blogging and discussion site (that is after all my business and
livelihood).
It would be nice to have a one- stop-site to view the details on the plans,
steps and results of people conversion projects.
Any takers?
Thanks,
Mike Trefry
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