EV Digest 6007
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) The evette
by GWMobile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 9Electric Progress Report -- Ring Roller
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: lee's emeter companion?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: #22
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OT: Jiffy lube...
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: #22
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Request Porsche 914 power requirements at 65mph
by "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electricvette.com homebuilt electric trike in popular science this
month
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: REVA (not) in Australia
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) my head feels like a frisbee
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: DWP has 74 RAV4-EV lease returns
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: REVA (not) in Australia
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: DWP has 74 RAV4-EV lease returns
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Golf Carts, What Can They Teach?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) E-volks now offering a series motor
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Request Porsche 914 power requirements at 65mph
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: E-volks now offering a series motor
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) article: Advanced Battery Technologies, Inc. Signs Agreement With
Pioneering US Electric Car Developer Left Coast Conversions, Inc.
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: melted a post (learned a lesson)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Intelect 9 ah D cells.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: lee's emeter companion?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.electricevette.com/
EVette Electric Car Of The FUTURE
"EVette"
The "EVette" was custom made by Tom Sines and his wife Yvette, and is a
one-of-a-kind EV that has extreme maneuverability and with just a flick
of a wrist can turn on a dime and even spin like a top (just for the fun
of it). There is not a four wheeled car on the road that can even come
close to the maneuverability this has. Best of all, with gas prices
surging to new high's, I never have to stop at the pump. This is our
vision of the "Car of the Future" and we've spent years perfecting this
patented design. It's street legal and registered in Florida as a
motorcycle. This is not a glorified golf cart, go cart, or ZTR mower
design. This car is all about more batteries, more power, and much more
maneuverability. Unlike conventional three-wheeled vehicle designs, it
has no steering wheel, having a joystick "drive-by-wire" steering
control, dual brakes, can carry a large payload of batteries (from 24-40
depending on size and type), and after converting gas cars to electric
for years, there is no way you can get as many batteries in a conversion
as I can in this car. Keeping safety and stability in mind when we made
this design, it will not flip over in a turn, the front wheel is not a
load bearing wheel. All braking, steering, and traction is through the
two large rear wheels, having dual 9" DC motors. It also has a
lightweight fiberglass modified Lamborghini kit body, however, the style
is an after thought and could be changed or altered.This car is Amazing
to drive, really quick around corners and has been test driven up to 60
mph., (although, with upgrades, I'm sure a racing model could break
records), as for cost, you can drive 200 mi. and more on a charge.
Charging time can take as little as an hour depending on the battery
charger used. The car can easily be upgraded for more power by
installing better batteries, selecting tires with less drag, and
swapping motors to a larger size.We have funded development of this
vehicle out of our own resources and are looking for sponsors,
manufacturer, grants, investors, etc., to get on board and help us take
this car to the next level. My purpose for making this EV is for the
environment, and to reduce dependance of foreign oil.For more
information: email Tom Sines [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone:
863.763.0547 (8am to 5pm EST in Okeechobee, FL)
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
globalwarming and the melting poles.
www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice work!
----- Original Message ----
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:06:42 PM
Subject: 9Electric Progress Report -- Ring Roller
I'm definitely taking the scenic route on my conversion. Instead of just buying
an adaptor, I bought a lathe/mill and welder, and have been learning to use
them. I needed to roll a strip of steel into a hoop for my spacer. A friend
rolled one for me, but because of his ring roller's design, it warped it. So I
decided to build my own ring roller. It was a great experience, I learned alot,
and it actually works! The first job I did on it was to gently curve roll bar
pads to fit curved fenderwells (for another car, not the 9Electric). Soon it
will be used to make my motor adaptor spacer.
http://9electric.evforge.net/Tools/ringroller/
Thinking EV conversion businesswise for a moment, a tool like this could be a
step towards making adaptors more inexpensively.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
Sorry Victor, I have to support Lee, the ability to add the PK factor to
the calculation would be a requirement in my book. For example, my
Force had a Brusa style meter that was not PK compensated. Occasionally
I would find myself in the position of having driven most of the day at
low speeds and then taken the freeway at higher speeds. Without the PK
factor, I was left with no real idea of what my actual state of charge
was. While this kind of thing is something an experienced EVer can learn
to work with, it is not the way I would want it to work if I simply hand
the keys to someone else and say "drive my car".
I understand the situation Mike. Tell me how e-meter will react in this
case: after steady daily driving it shows you have 5Ah left (so, say 5
miles). You get on a freeway, reach 65 MPG and your compensated e-meter
shows "Whoops, you really have 1Ah at this rate, sorry" but the point
of getting on the freeway in the first place was to quickly get home
which is 3 miles away. And your PK-compensated e-meter lied that you
have 5Ah so you could make it.
How does this help?
It's not a matter of supporting or denying Lee's or anyone else's
opinion. Accept the fact that PK-correction accurately predicts
capacity (and so the range) for given consumption rate, so is *only*
useful if that rate is known. OR at least a pattern of future changes
of that rate is known.
If you want to be able to drive unpredictably, this rate is unknown,
whether you or Lee or anyone likes it or not. So the compensated
meter *will* show numbers based oh now you drive at the moment,
and how far you can drive *if you keep driving just as you did
in average last 4 minutes*. That "if" is never the case for
unpredictable driving which was the condition we discuss.
Sorry, I can't explain this better.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Sharon, much congrats to you and Wayne for doin it and not just talkin
the talk but walkin the walk.. I had a long talk with your honey and he
knows his stuff, Keep up the great work changing the world one EV at a time.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon G Alexander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: #22
,,Hi Number 22 for a conversion just made it to our shop, we have 2 in
there now, one almost finished. one 1/2 way done. So it will sit out side
till next week when we can start on it,,Its much better building them than
talking about tail gates or tail lights.
LOL LOL
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep... probably been going on since Julius took his chariot in to have the
wheels repacked. It's not just JL. In some shops, I've seen a car never
leave the lot. The manager *assumed* the car had been fixed, when the owner
came to pick it up. Awfully hard to do, since the key the owner left was for
their Toyota, not the Honda.
I saw it on a valve adjustment. Somehow they adjusted the valves w/o
removing the valve cover. (Tricky how they can do that... maybe adjust them
through the oil cap???)
The best scam is to take your car in to have the brakes inspected... they
disassemble the vehicle and refuse to put it back together. ("Our shop's
liability insurance won't let us reassemble your car... and it's only $700
for a $200 brake pad replacement.") Of course why they pulled the rotors off
the car is another question.
It just happened to my neighbor's daughter. They charged about 6 prices to
"tune up" her van at the Ford dealership. It still ran bad... but, oh, that
will be O2 sensors. He pulled the plugs last Monday (10K miles later) and
they were original... electrode burned to a gap of over 100. Hmm... a
tune-up w/o changing plugs???
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Jiffy lube...
> I laughed when the reporter called it a "new" scam. This is the oldest
> and most common problem.
> Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any pics? Would like see some of these conversions...
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sharon G Alexander
Sent: October 11, 2006 6:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: #22
,,Hi Number 22 for a conversion just made it to our shop, we have 2 in there
now, one almost finished. one 1/2 way done. So it will sit out side till
next week when we can start on it,,Its much better building them than
talking about tail gates or tail lights.
LOL LOL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Coming home today, in 3rd gear on a pretty flat section of the
interstate, I was pulling about 200 amps going 65mph. My pack voltage
is 120volts, and was pretty full at that point, the SOC meter was
reading about 40-50%, but that was under load. With no load it was up
in the 80-90% range.
Does that help?
And does that sound like the right amount of energy to go that fast?
24kw? (120volts*200amps).
I have not done an alignment on my car yet, and the tires are pretty
old, and inflated to what I think is about the max rating for the tire
(40psi).
Cor: Are you saying that at 60mph, you are only pulling 100amps on a 120v pack?
On 10/10/06, England Nathan-r25543 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Chris,
When you give us the amps at speed numbers could you let us know
what you pack voltage sagged to and how far you had gone since charge as
well?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My copy of the magazine arrived today. I'm skeptical about whether this
car can be safely driven with its strange methods of steering and braking.
I wish that the magazine writer had driven or ridden in the car and reported
his impressions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 3:39 PM
Subject: Electricvette.com homebuilt electric trike in popular science this
month
I just saw this in the magazine.
He used two independent electric motors - one on each rear wheel with no
transmission. Controls them with a joystick.
Lead acid batteries.
Looks good and is inexpensive.
Electricvette.com homebuilt electric trike in popular science this month
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't get the crushing bit.
The three articles that came up on Google News when I asked about "Reva
Australia" all mentioned that the car would have to be exported or
crushed.
Since when does the Aus govt mandate that unregisterable cars be
crushed?
Maybe they are talking about the required three cars to be crash tested
if they want to import and sell the Reva as a normal car?
(We don't have any NEV type road standards in Aus)
As for Mr Ferraretto's Reva - he could have easily registered it as a
one-off import.
(But that wasn't his intention - he wanted to import them en-masse)
Anyway, I still think the crushing bit is laying it on a bit thick,
trying to associate the GM EV1 experience with his problem of trying to
sell a cars in Australia that (probably) don't meet the Australian
Design Rules.
Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Massey
> Sent: Thursday, 12 October 2006 8:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: REVA (not) in Australia
>
>
> G'day All
>
> Small item in todays newspaper - a REVA that had been
> imported to Australia
> by an Adelaide (south Australia) company has been required to be
> re-exported or crushed, crash-test requirements being cited
> as the reason.
> The federal opposition gets a mention as being in support of
> EVs (but they
> seem to be in support of anything that may get them a few votes).
>
> Back to work...
>
> Regards
>
> [Technik] James
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Incidentally I asked my city (Sunnyvale) fleet manager what they
are going to do with their RAV4 EVs last night.
Hi sanswer is that they will return them to Toyota in April,
when the lease runs out as they are not allowed to sell them
to private persons - I am not sure if this is a cop-out or a
city policy, but I am sure very interested to hear what you
get from DWP and the establishment of an entity handling this
precious vehicles' transfer of ownership from Toyota to a
more caring EV'er parent.
In case you sent it around to solicit interest:
I'd be interested in buying two for $22,000 each.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of doug korthof
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 5:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: DWP has 74 RAV4-EV lease returns
Hello,
Los Angeles DWP has operations in 5 states, spreads from the Owens Valley to
Orange County, and has a special exemption written into Prop 218 to
accomodate its power.
LADWP has been returning fleet-leased Toyota RAV4-EV, placing them at the
mercy of:
TOYOTA POLICY ON LEASE RETURN RAV4-EV
"...When a customer does return a RAV4 EV that is in good condition, it will
continue to be put into service through community groups and our company
fleet. Because many are reaching the end of their sustainable life, we need
to keep close tabs on every car and we would not want to burden a customer
with the technical costs associated with an aging vehicle.
"...When these cars reach the end of their sustainable life, we feel we have
a responsibility to recycle certain materials and dispose of hazardous
materials, such as the battery pack, properly. Toyota has a rigorous process
for retiring the EVs that maximizes the recovery of recyclable components
and minimizes the exposure of substances of concern. For instance, all
fluids and refrigerants are removed, the battery is deactivated and sent to
a certified battery recycler, and the de-contented vehicle is then sent to a
certified destruction facility. All recyclable metals, plastics, fibers,
glass and rubber are separated for re-use...documented at our National
Headquarters under file #200610091351..."
The best fate for lease-returns is to be evaluated by Toyota: if "good",
they get sent to remote locations, such as Catalina Island, where ironically
all electric comes from diesel generators subsidized by the mainland
ratepayers. If they fail these unstated criteria, and eventually, they are
dismantled, crushed, and, ultimately, JUNKED.
Instead of losing these great cars, and the EV-95 Panasonnic NiMH batteries
that are irreplaceable since Chevron-Ovonyx-Cobasys-ENER-Texaco's legal
action against Toyota-Panasonic, we'd like to see the leases assumed by an
EV-oriented entity, and, ultimately, purchased for use by individual EV
drivers. If, in the fullness of time, they get scrapped, there are many
parts on board that might be of interest for EV converters or builders.
Especially, the batteries.
Currently, Toyota wants to control all spare parts and the fate of these
vehicles. Once they are sold, as they should have been originally, their
disposition is up to their owners. For some reason, Toyota hates this idea,
and is bitterly opposed to letting the vehicles go on the open market.
Next Tuesday, Oct. 17, at 1:30 PM, the LADWP Board has asked Staff to report
on why they were returning these vehicles (Staff stated that they don't want
them, they no longer have a use for them) and to report on the condition of
them, so that the Board can decide whether they should cherry-pick the "good
ones" and dispose of the rest.
Here is the letter I'm sending out:
Los Angeles Dept. of Water and Power
Board of Commissioners
Barbara Moschos [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TEL 213-367-1356, FAX 213-367-1423
PLEASE DISTRIBUTE TO THE COMMISSIONERS
RE: 74 fleet lease-return Toyota RAV4-EV
Dear Board of Commissioners,
These 74 RAV4-EV are the last of the fleet of EVs once used by DWP. They
were being returned routinely to Toyota, the current batch of 24 had been
slated to be returned on Sept. 30.
Thank you for asking Staff to report on the condition of the 74 RAV4-EV
currently leased by DWP. Your timely intervention has so far saved these
irreplaceable clean cars from being returned to Toyota and an uncertain fate
-- either donated to far away agencies, used at Toyota plants, or, usually,
dismantled and demolished. At the next meeting, a chilling account from
Toyota will be read about how Toyota strips and crushes these much-wanted
clean Electric cars.
But these RAV4-EV are not wanted by DWP Staff. Testimony by Staff at the
last meeting indicates that these RAV4-EV no longer meet Staff needs. At
the next meeting, members of the public plan to commit enough resources to
guarantee lease payments and to purchase all the RAV4-EV.
The Board will be asked to transfer the leases to an entity set up for that
purpose. This request will be in accordance with Staff testimony that with
the limited range and maintenance, the RAV4-EV are a cost item, and were
replaced by rental cars and by a recent purchase of 90 Prius non-plug-in
hybrid vehicles.
We propose to take that burden from DWP.
After we assume the leases, we will use the existing precedent and request
that Toyota sell them to us at the established residual value of
approximately $22,000 each. Whether this is successful or not is our
problem, not DWP.
We ask for your cooperation in transferring the leases from Toyota to us,
and/or in facilitating the conversion of these leases to purchases, a
precedent set by Toyota and other lease-purchasers in the past.
Thank you very much,
Doug Korthof
1020 Mar Vista
Seal Beach, CA 90740-5842
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell phone 714-496-1567
cc. many
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:13 PM 12/10/06 +1000, Mark wrote:
I don't get the crushing bit.
The three articles that came up on Google News when I asked about "Reva
Australia" all mentioned that the car would have to be exported or
crushed.
G'day Mark, and All
It wouldn't be the first time our local rag got it wrong, but, page 82 of
Launceston Examiner (Thursday October 12, 2006)
================
Title: Electric car off the roads
CANBERRA - Bureaucracy is denying Australian motorists the chance to drive
electric, Labor says.
The Reva electric car has been imported from India by an Adelaide company,
but must be either crushed or exported next month under a ruling from the
Department of Transport and Regional Services.
Federal Roads Minister Jim Lloyd said the Reva did not meet Australian
safety standards and could not be run on Australian roads.
Opposition transport spokesman Kerry O'Brien said the Reva, built for urban
commuting, should not have to stand up to the same safety standards of open
road vehicles capable of doing 200kmh.
"restricted to low speeds, quadricycles won't be for everyone, but have the
potential for short trips or commuting to work at low cost with a minimum
impact on the environment" Senator O'Brien said."But the Howard Government
is saying the Reva has to be measured against the same standards as
petrol-powered cars such as the Commodore or Falcon, weighing four times as
much and capable of speeds well in excess of the legal limits."
================
That's all I know.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be interested in one as well.
Mark Dutko- San Francisco
415-203-9641
On Oct 11, 2006, at 8:58 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
Incidentally I asked my city (Sunnyvale) fleet manager what they
are going to do with their RAV4 EVs last night.
Hi sanswer is that they will return them to Toyota in April,
when the lease runs out as they are not allowed to sell them
to private persons - I am not sure if this is a cop-out or a
city policy, but I am sure very interested to hear what you
get from DWP and the establishment of an entity handling this
precious vehicles' transfer of ownership from Toyota to a
more caring EV'er parent.
In case you sent it around to solicit interest:
I'd be interested in buying two for $22,000 each.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of doug korthof
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 5:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: DWP has 74 RAV4-EV lease returns
Hello,
Los Angeles DWP has operations in 5 states, spreads from the Owens
Valley to
Orange County, and has a special exemption written into Prop 218 to
accomodate its power.
LADWP has been returning fleet-leased Toyota RAV4-EV, placing them
at the
mercy of:
TOYOTA POLICY ON LEASE RETURN RAV4-EV
"...When a customer does return a RAV4 EV that is in good
condition, it will
continue to be put into service through community groups and our
company
fleet. Because many are reaching the end of their sustainable life,
we need
to keep close tabs on every car and we would not want to burden a
customer
with the technical costs associated with an aging vehicle.
"...When these cars reach the end of their sustainable life, we
feel we have
a responsibility to recycle certain materials and dispose of hazardous
materials, such as the battery pack, properly. Toyota has a
rigorous process
for retiring the EVs that maximizes the recovery of recyclable
components
and minimizes the exposure of substances of concern. For instance, all
fluids and refrigerants are removed, the battery is deactivated and
sent to
a certified battery recycler, and the de-contented vehicle is then
sent to a
certified destruction facility. All recyclable metals, plastics,
fibers,
glass and rubber are separated for re-use...documented at our National
Headquarters under file #200610091351..."
The best fate for lease-returns is to be evaluated by Toyota: if
"good",
they get sent to remote locations, such as Catalina Island, where
ironically
all electric comes from diesel generators subsidized by the mainland
ratepayers. If they fail these unstated criteria, and eventually,
they are
dismantled, crushed, and, ultimately, JUNKED.
Instead of losing these great cars, and the EV-95 Panasonnic NiMH
batteries
that are irreplaceable since Chevron-Ovonyx-Cobasys-ENER-Texaco's
legal
action against Toyota-Panasonic, we'd like to see the leases
assumed by an
EV-oriented entity, and, ultimately, purchased for use by
individual EV
drivers. If, in the fullness of time, they get scrapped, there are
many
parts on board that might be of interest for EV converters or
builders.
Especially, the batteries.
Currently, Toyota wants to control all spare parts and the fate of
these
vehicles. Once they are sold, as they should have been originally,
their
disposition is up to their owners. For some reason, Toyota hates
this idea,
and is bitterly opposed to letting the vehicles go on the open market.
Next Tuesday, Oct. 17, at 1:30 PM, the LADWP Board has asked Staff
to report
on why they were returning these vehicles (Staff stated that they
don't want
them, they no longer have a use for them) and to report on the
condition of
them, so that the Board can decide whether they should cherry-pick
the "good
ones" and dispose of the rest.
Here is the letter I'm sending out:
Los Angeles Dept. of Water and Power
Board of Commissioners
Barbara Moschos [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TEL 213-367-1356, FAX 213-367-1423
PLEASE DISTRIBUTE TO THE COMMISSIONERS
RE: 74 fleet lease-return Toyota RAV4-EV
Dear Board of Commissioners,
These 74 RAV4-EV are the last of the fleet of EVs once used by
DWP. They
were being returned routinely to Toyota, the current batch of 24
had been
slated to be returned on Sept. 30.
Thank you for asking Staff to report on the condition of the 74
RAV4-EV
currently leased by DWP. Your timely intervention has so far saved
these
irreplaceable clean cars from being returned to Toyota and an
uncertain fate
-- either donated to far away agencies, used at Toyota plants, or,
usually,
dismantled and demolished. At the next meeting, a chilling account
from
Toyota will be read about how Toyota strips and crushes these much-
wanted
clean Electric cars.
But these RAV4-EV are not wanted by DWP Staff. Testimony by Staff
at the
last meeting indicates that these RAV4-EV no longer meet Staff
needs. At
the next meeting, members of the public plan to commit enough
resources to
guarantee lease payments and to purchase all the RAV4-EV.
The Board will be asked to transfer the leases to an entity set up
for that
purpose. This request will be in accordance with Staff testimony
that with
the limited range and maintenance, the RAV4-EV are a cost item, and
were
replaced by rental cars and by a recent purchase of 90 Prius non-
plug-in
hybrid vehicles.
We propose to take that burden from DWP.
After we assume the leases, we will use the existing precedent and
request
that Toyota sell them to us at the established residual value of
approximately $22,000 each. Whether this is successful or not is our
problem, not DWP.
We ask for your cooperation in transferring the leases from Toyota
to us,
and/or in facilitating the conversion of these leases to purchases, a
precedent set by Toyota and other lease-purchasers in the past.
Thank you very much,
Doug Korthof
1020 Mar Vista
Seal Beach, CA 90740-5842
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell phone 714-496-1567
cc. many
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes:
One EV gal explained to me that typical golf carts were
15 MPH and slow which is why EV folks may not want to be associated with
them so I lurked on the EV discussion list most of the time but joined
in on the golf cart forums much more.>>>>
Yes, Stock golf carts run about 15 mph.....the "fleet motors" are 2 or 2.5HP.
There's a whole sub-culture of folks who modify carts with lift kits, big
tires and bigger motors and controllers. There's a forum at:
_http://server1.buggiesunlimited.com/phpBB2/_
(http://server1.buggiesunlimited.com/phpBB2/)
go to Ezgo electric or Club Car Electric and learn all there is to know.
My street licensed motorcycle - golf cart trike with slightly bigger wheels
and an 8HP motor will run at 25 to 30 mph on the flat streets easily. Darn
good and easy (and fun!) way to get enthused about the potential of "real" EVs!
Matt Parkhouse
Colorado Springs, CO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.e-volks.com/about2.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris,
You were initially estimating around 300A at 120V and I said
that my truck does half that at 60 mph:
My pack is 312V and my controller reports to draw between
55 and 60A when I am cruising, this 18 kW (300 x 60) is half
your initial estimate of 300 x 120 = 36 kW.
Your new data of 200A x 120V = 24 kW at 65 mph is more what
I would expect, although the 370 Wh per mile is rather high,
for a sedan you should be able to get better numbers when
paying attention to drag (brakes, bearings, gearbox oil and
the already mentioned alignment).
My tires are at 50 PSI, even though the sidewall says max is 35.
NOTE that you can safely inflate your tires to a cold pressure
10 PSI above the "max load inflation" on the sidewall, according
to the tire manufacturers.
Since I cannot run my truck for very long as it's an EV and I
have seen the same tires spec'ed with 44 PSI on the sidewalls.
Besides, at lower than 50 PSI the tires bulge too much, so they
will run hotter than they do now and I have actually damaged
one sidewall in a sharp corner when running 35 PSI because the
wheel rolled over this front tire and the rough road bit a chunk
of rubber out of the sidewall. This has never happened since I
inflated them to 50 PSI.
Going straight the wheels are very well aligned, the truck
always starts rolling when the road is not perfectly level.
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chris Sutton
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 6:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Request Porsche 914 power requirements at 65mph
Coming home today, in 3rd gear on a pretty flat section of the
interstate, I was pulling about 200 amps going 65mph. My pack voltage
is 120volts, and was pretty full at that point, the SOC meter was
reading about 40-50%, but that was under load. With no load it was up
in the 80-90% range.
Does that help?
And does that sound like the right amount of energy to go that fast?
24kw? (120volts*200amps).
I have not done an alignment on my car yet, and the tires are pretty
old, and inflated to what I think is about the max rating for the tire
(40psi).
Cor: Are you saying that at 60mph, you are only pulling 100amps on a 120v
pack?
On 10/10/06, England Nathan-r25543 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Chris,
> When you give us the amps at speed numbers could you let us know
> what you pack voltage sagged to and how far you had gone since charge as
> well?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Too funny that they write
"our kit #2 has no clutch" right next to a picture
where their motor is mated to a tranny with the most
prominent feature on the top of the tranny (as far as
I can determine): The clutch lever and cable....
(let me know if I mistook the tranny gear selector
for the clutch
I would expect that E-volks do not deliver the clutch,
as it is usually already in the donor - as long as their
motor mating allows for the clutch to stay in place....
Another interesting feature is the open exhaust flange
sticking out from under the motor.....
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of jmygann
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 9:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: E-volks now offering a series motor
http://www.e-volks.com/about2.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe Gadget can let us in a little on what he's up
to:
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?Feed=MW&Date=20061011&ID=6093901
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Trying to play Santa Claus?...
There will be more to come. I have big plans at Left
Coast. I've been listening to everybody's wish list.
I'm doing everything I can to make it happen.
This particular venture is to get 150 amp hours into a
package the size of an Orbital at a decent price. I'll
post more info as I have it. We are just starting to
haggle about prices.
Gadget
Converting the world one EV at a time.
Saving the world is good business.
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly. If the connection between your wire/cable isn't tight it's the
same a a loose post connection. The lug won't melt first just transfer the
heat. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: melted a post (learned a lesson)
> Another thing you can do to keep you ahead of the curve is to use
> a non-reversible temperature sensing dot, such as the Celsi-Dot
> at omega.com. This has been discussed on the EVDL, so you might
> want to check the archives.
>
> You can have nicely tightened clamps on your posts, and you can
> still get a hot post, for whatever reason. The Celsi-Dot
> approach pointed out several of my posts that were getting hot,
> and from the test I ran at
>
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/batteries/battery_posts/voltage_drops/060902_post_voltage_drops.pdf,
> it is apparently defective cables, so I get to make up some new
> ones.
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: melted a post (learned a lesson)
>
>
> > I drove in the wrong gear and did the same thing...
> > USB was able to melt on a new post, but due to plastic
> > melting around it, always got acid vapor (corrosion)
> > around it just a smidge faster than all of the rest.
> > Would imagine trojan would want to claim the same.
> > Check with your distributor. It was $5 for me, but
> > that was 8 years ago.
> >
> > FWIW, you might consider Bellville washers. Mike
> > Brown at ElectroAuto sells them for dirt cheap, and
> > the goal is to maintain tight contact.
> > peace,
> >
> >
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > > Today was my first break down.
> > >
> > > I was 7 miles from home towards work, and upon
> > > accelerating at a traffic
> > > light lost motor power. I quickly pulled into the
> > > first available lot, and
> > > discovered one of my battery posts completely melted
> > > the post down to
> > > molten nothingness.
> > >
> > > I learned my lesson for sure. I should have watered
> > > my batteries 10 days
> > > ago, so would have naturally checked for loose
> > > connections at the same
> > > time.
> > >
> > > I was able to jumper past the battery in 40 minutes
> > > and get on my way. I
> > > won't have automatic charging (Zivan will overcharge
> > > a pack with one less
> > > battery) until I replace fix.
> > >
> > > ???QUESTIONS:???
> > >
> > > 1. Can a Trojan T-125 battery post be rebuilt?
> > > 2. If not, how can I get a similar (1 year old)
> > > battery?
> > > 3. If not, how should I order a new battery to have
> > > it match the others
> > > most closely
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2nd set of questions.
> > > In my vehicle, both battery post clamps and battery
> > > copper lugs are used.
> > > Today, I learned I should have long ago replaced the
> > > post clamp with copper
> > > lugs.
> > > However, I'm also baffled.
> > > battery post clamps have been around forever, and I
> > > doubt loosen in
> > > gasoline vehicle environments. So, why have I had
> > > trouble with this. It
> > > was fairly tight 2 months ago.
> > > I had problem with another clamp 5 months ago that
> > > partially melted a post
> > > (not too much), I caught it in time, so that it is
> > > really tight.
> > >
> > > ??Are clamps inferior to lugs, or is it just the
> > > installation that is
> > > inferior?
> > >
> > > For the rest of you, tighten your connections if you
> > > don't already.
> > > I learned the $100 way
> > >
> > > BTW. I've never been able to fix my gas car when it
> > > died. This is proof
> > > that this is the great technology!! (one that can be
> > > fixed by the average
> > > Joe)
> > >
> > > I'll keep you POSTED,
> > > Ben
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
> > has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
> > Learn more at:
> > www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> > Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the
> steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 18650 is the way to go. Springs and tubes if you can believe it. Each
cell never sees more than two amps. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Intelect 9 ah D cells.
> I thought so. Plus with the chrysler patent blocking deployment in cars
> it seems homemade is the way to go.
>
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 2:33 pm, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > Exactly. For instance the Tzero & Tesla Roadster have each over 6000
> > batteries. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "GWMobile" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 12:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: Intelect 9 ah D cells.
> >
> >
> >> Anybody run the numbers on assembling an ev from small nickal metal
> >> hydrides?
> >> As in consumer electronic equipment types? Or is that what you are
> >> doing?
> >>
> >> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 8:41 am, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >> > I goofed on the weight & ah of their pack.
> >> >
> >> > But, by referring to capacity of Optima battery, you could get (in
> >> > theory)
> >> > a 50-cell pack (10s x 5p config) with 12V 45Ah at estimated weight
> >> > ~10Kg (22
> >> > pounds). Given a careful housing design, this pack could be
> >> discharged
> >> > at
> >> > 50A continuously, and be recharged at 3.6A per 10-cell sub-group.
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>;
> >> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:11 AM
> >> > Subject: Intelect 9 ah D cells.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> 3.85809 is the weight of one string( each cell is 175 gram) at 12v
> >> > equaling
> >> >> 9ah. Just multiply by the ah you need. It would be in units of
> >> >> 9ah. So
> >> > an
> >> >> Optima sized pack would be around 23 pounds & 54 ah. 60
> >> batteries. 20
> >> >> batteries or about 8 pounds for a BB 17 ah sized battery that is
> >> >> 18ah for
> >> >> the d cells. At 5 dollars per cell that is 300 per battery. At
> >> 10
> >> > dollars
> >> >> per cell that is 600 dollars or what you'd spend for a used
> >> Panasonic
> >> >> NiMh
> >> >> from a Rav4. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> >> >>
> >>
> >> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
> >> globalwarming and the melting poles.
> >>
> >> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
> >>
>
> www.GlobalBoiling.com for daily updated facts about hurricanes,
> globalwarming and the melting poles.
>
> www.ElectricQuakes.com daily solar and earthquake data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> So your average (over many days if you will) driving
> pattern calls for 200Wh consumption in mixed freeway
> and slow speed driving. Thus this is the size of your
> fuel tank. YEs it will be smaller if you suddenly
> decide to run on freeway all day long, but a) it is
> out of ordinary, and b) you *know* you won't have as
> many Wh available as usual if you do that.
Ah, but that is the point, I think: the average person will not
understand that the size of their EV's tank varies depending on their
driving habits, and even if they do, they will not know by how much.
This variation is, however, something that software in a meter can
easily compute.
You've assumed an example to illustrate a situation where Peukert
correction may provide little benefit, however, I think the important
thing to note is that the *worst* case is that including the correction
provides little benefit in certain situations, but in many other
situations the correction will improve the accuracy/usefulness of the
guage. At no point does including it make the guage *less* useful.
> > if incorporating a Peukert correction into the
> > *fuel guage* display can help to make the size of my
> > tank more nearly constant then the usefulness of this
> > guage truly does approach that of the ICE fuel guage.
>
> No, it won't make it constant because it isn't constant.
> It will only visualize its shrinkage/expansion as you average
> (per 4 min I think) consumption changes.
I think you misunderstood me. It will not make the actual capacity of
the battery constant, but it will make the apparent size of the fuel
tank, as indicated by the fuel guage, more nearly constant.
I think the usefulness of a vehicle's fuel guage comes from the fact
that while it may drop more rapidly when you consume energy/fuel at a
faster rate, in the ICE case, when the guage indicates 1/2, you can look
at how far you have travelled and know that you can go about the same
distance more before running out of energy/fuel. This is the behaviour
that an EV fuel guage should be striving to provide.
You are correct in observing that in order for the EV guage to correct
the energy remaining indication based on the consumption rate, it must
first observe the rate of consumption over some interval. The 4 minute
window may be referring to [one of] the interval[s] you can configure
the E-Meter for, but this does not mean it is the only, or the optimal,
window that all fuel guages must use.
A useful feature would be for the guage to 'learn'/remember the average
consumption over the last 1 (or N) trips and use that value to base its
initial caapcity remaining estimate on when you start the next trip,
until it has a chance to observe the actual consumption rate for this
[portion of this] trip.
It might also be useful to address the 'shrinking/expanding' fuel tank
effect by having the guage provide both at 'miles remaining to empty'
indication that is updated over relatively short intervals, while the
fuel guage itself updates more slowly over longer intervals. Or, have
the software control the rate at which the fuel tank size varies
(perhaps allowing for rapid decreases, but slower increases) to make the
variation less dramatic.
While the fact that your EV's fuel guage might go *upwards* while you
are driving as a result of pulling off the freeway onto surface streets
is completely unlike an ICE's fuel guage behaviour, I would suggest this
is completely acceptable and appropriate behaviour provided the guage
accurately reflects the energy remaining while I'm on the freeway as
well as when I am on surface streets.
> > As for Peukert only being useful/applicable to PbA, this
> > doesn't mean it shouldn't be supported by the meter's
> > software
> I agree with that, except that if it cost more because of
> amortization of the software development time, I'd rather
> not to pay for something I won't be using.
Well, just how many of your eVision guages do you *personally* plan to
buy from yourself? ;^>
If you intend to sell it to *others*, then what is more important is
what *they* will be using. How many Brusa Ah counters (no Peukert) have
you sold to EVer's compared to how many Evers have bought E-Meters
(includes Peukert and a fuel guage display in addition to uncompensated
Ah/Wh counting)?
(Please note that I am not trying to tell you what features you should
include in your product; I am suggesting that Peukert compensation is a
useful feature for an EV fuel guage, whether yours or someone else's.)
Cheers,
Roger.
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