EV Digest 6032
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Battery Compare
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Battery brands
by Aaron Lamperti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Good batteries exist now, and in use (question regarding opti
ma statement)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Charging idea, probably already thought of...
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Battery brands
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Comm pics from my 8" ADC
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Need Help in Australia
by "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Aluminum Mechanical Lugs!! NEVERMIND!
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Aluminum Mechanical Lugs
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Distance remaining meter - was lee's emeter companion
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Fuel gauge Peukert correction, was: lee's emeter companion?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) What's the most efficent way to connect my ADC 9" motor to a car?
by "Adan Vielma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
by "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Charging idea, probably already thought of...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Chevron NiMH was Re: Small request
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by "rcboyd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I'm about to replace the 12 trojan 30XHS's in my car as well as the
20 Trojan T105's in my house and I'm curious if people have opinions
about battery brands.
I've been happy with the Trojans. But it seems that the 'equivalent'
US Battery models are significantly cheaper.
Opinions?
Thanks!
Aaron Lamperti
Norwich, VT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for. Anybody
know?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius cars.
Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
http://www.electric7.com/
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Martin,
Doug said that after 500 or so full cycles on the Yellowtops,
when their capacity starts to decline, they can still get a
second life in SLI (starter battery in a gas car).
Yellow tops are good EV batteries, be it rather expensive.
If you are considering two parallel strings that means you have
too little capacity or power, so you should try to get larger
batteries and build one string to avoid balancing issues, if
the available space can accommodate the larger footprint.
Originally my truck had 2 strings of 26 batteries (12V 42Ah)
and I replaced it with one string of 26 (12V 110 Ah)
which increased the available capacity and lowered the
purchase cost of the pack.
It also solved problems others saw with the current balance
between the different strings.
I think my batteries are still below $100 each after two
price increases because of world market metal price changes.
I currently have over 4500 miles on these batteries.
You can find my EV at http://evalbum.com/694
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of martin emde
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Good batteries exist now, and in use (question regarding
optima statement)
Can you please explain why the optima yellow top is not a good choice for an
> EV? We (high school project) are considering 20 D-34's (two 10 battery
> strings in parallel for 120V system). We actually would appreciate any
> feedback regarding these batteries in an EV application. What about
> individual regulators/equalizers for the optima's - are they required?
Thanks.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: doug korthof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Oct 14, 2006 5:13 PM
> Subject: Good batteries exist now, and in use
> To: [email protected]
>
>
>
> For example, an Optima "Yellow Top" (YT) battery which is no longer good
> for Electric cars will still work for decades in a normal SLI application.
> Little load or cycling, etc., comparable to what it's built for in an
> EV. They also work in a battery backup for a solar system, where cycling
is
> usually rare, but big power bursts are non-existent.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
Correct - the EEstor is not on hand, so I cannot debate
that you have the coolest (or hottest) stuff right in your
hands.
But please mind that the EEstor is NOT a battery.
It is a capacitor.
It has stupendous large capacity and 3500V working voltage
so the currents are limited to only 200A when delivering
(or sucking in, that is the same for a capacitor) 700 kW.
Now we only need to get our hands on it....
I hope you can do a PFC to deliver 3500V....
Laters,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 10:12 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Charging idea, probably already thought of...
Guys... I HAVE the best battery chemistry in hand!!!
Any other great claims to fame above and Beyond Lithium Iron Phosphate are
Bull shit.
or just so far out there that they are "Moon Shot" grade stuff. That was
Silver Zinc...by the way.
Thanks to SEVA member Kent Bakke ,I have 12 Valence U24-12 modules in hand
and on line... as of about 11 pm last night that is.
Thank you Marc Kohler at Valence for getting me the new U-charge box.
Now I need to buy a new lap top to read the CAN buss and play data logger.
My old laptop has USB 1.0 and I need drivers.. time to upgrade the
Luggable.
So.. I am doing a PFC to Ucharge interface, and test, that I hope, will
spend some time in a Blue Prius, Kent's or Ryan's or maybe the Wenatchee
car. So.. we will see what kind of range we can get with the current crop
of GOOD Stuff batteries.
Let me tell you 500 mile range and a recharge in 5 minutes is Bull. that's a
1000 plus amps for 5 minutes at stupendous volts. GEEZ I would like to see
this done.
But the Brutal fact is I will problably be the one pushing those limits for
the rest of my life.
Even A123s can't be charged that fast without some real fast BMS and a
prayer.., Copper powder fire exstingusher... Nomex gloves...
So until I have the melted copper and the Demand charges on my power bill ..
it most likley didn't happen.
Rich Rudman
aka Madman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Charging idea, probably already thought of...
> Ah, Rich, but you've gotta look at the "revolutionary" new batts that are
> coming down the line. One was posted today (on another site) that implies
it
> will carry a car 500 miles on a charge and recharge in 5 minutes. Per my
> calcs, we'll need several of these in the fueling station.
>
> Apparently, per this article, Feel Good is talking about them. I assume
it's
> just hype, since the numbers are so far off (eg: comparing mileage of a
> Smart sized car to an SUV.)
> http://www.thelightisgreen.com/2006/09/ceramic_battery.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Charging idea, probably already thought of...
>
>
> > I got one O' them chargers...
> >
> > Think $0.50 per watt of power.
> > So.. a 75Kw charger.. is $37,500 in rough numbers.
> >
> > So how many do you want??
> >
> > Bit chargers can be made.. the questions is who is going to buy them and
> > install them, and maintain them? This level is pretty impressive... if
all
> > you have now is only 5Kw.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Currently eBay has one for $300 and one for $1400, both used. The
availability of working packs from wrecked Priuses (Prii?) is not very
high but a good possibility. Fortunately people seem to report that the
Prius batteries rarely (if ever?) fail so the risk of being sold bad
batts is low.
NiMH requires a very specific charge controller procedure, specific to
that particular battery & pack brand.
I saw they're 200v packs at onlt 6.5 amp-hrs. 10x packs at $300 isn't
bad, actually. If the charging/discharging algorithm permits it, then
that's 65 amp-hrs of usable capacity. In a lead-acid, if you want long
life, you have to forget about using 20%-50% of the capacity to avoid
the deep discharge. And Peukert's further limits capacity. 65 amp hrs
is comparable to lead-acid pack of far larger size. And $3000 for a
near-immortal pack is not a bad price in itself.
Danny
Dmitri wrote:
That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for.
Anybody know?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius cars.
Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
http://www.electric7.com/
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Oct 2006 at 16:33, Aaron Lamperti wrote:
> I'm curious if people have opinions
> about battery brands.
Most people avoid the first brand they bought for their EVs, because those
are the ones they killed. ;-)
Seriously, I think that as long as you're talking about Trojan and USBMC,
how you care for them makes far more difference than the brand.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mind you that I was talking about a "Classic" prius pack of 273.6V
as the later Prius has less modules (but that packs are more expensive
so you would not want to buy those)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Danny Miller
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
Currently eBay has one for $300 and one for $1400, both used. The
availability of working packs from wrecked Priuses (Prii?) is not very
high but a good possibility. Fortunately people seem to report that the
Prius batteries rarely (if ever?) fail so the risk of being sold bad
batts is low.
NiMH requires a very specific charge controller procedure, specific to
that particular battery & pack brand.
I saw they're 200v packs at onlt 6.5 amp-hrs. 10x packs at $300 isn't
bad, actually. If the charging/discharging algorithm permits it, then
that's 65 amp-hrs of usable capacity. In a lead-acid, if you want long
life, you have to forget about using 20%-50% of the capacity to avoid
the deep discharge. And Peukert's further limits capacity. 65 amp hrs
is comparable to lead-acid pack of far larger size. And $3000 for a
near-immortal pack is not a bad price in itself.
Danny
Dmitri wrote:
> That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for.
> Anybody know?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
> Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
>
>
>> Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius cars.
>> Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
>> http://www.electric7.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>>
>> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When you're lucky and you find them, around $500
which gives you 38 modules.
NOTE: in operatoin the modules need to be contained
as when you are using them without mechanical support
you will swell and blow them easily, this was witnessed
by other members on this list.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dmitri
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for. Anybody
know?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius cars.
> Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
> http://www.electric7.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What happened to cause the damage to the commutator? What are you
doing to keep it from happening again?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Erik Bigelow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:34 PM
Subject: Comm pics from my 8" ADC
Hi all, (Retrying without HTML this time!)
I finally took some pictures of my comm as best I could, I understand
the difficulty now! They're up here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/electricbasset/Comm/
They look about the right color with no obvious burn marks that I
could see, and didn't sound like a "rabid squirrel ready for takeoff"
as I think Jim Husted desribed it. Actually it sounded pretty good.
What I do see are streaks that are the each around the color that I've
read I should expect, but I don't think I should be seeing both colors
next to eachother right? I don't know what the whiteish patch is on
the 1st picture, but it didn't come off with a little alcohol on a
Qtip. There also to be some kind of junk between the comm bars. Should
I try to clean this?
I checked a couple of the brushes as well and they didn't seem to have
any of the problems shown here, except a streakiness corresponding to
the streaks on the comm.
http://www.hkplanet.net/learning_center/articles/DC_Motor_Brushes.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are there any Australians out there who can give advice to an old sheila?
I've just decided to convert my own car and the only Australian sites I can
find don't answer their email.
I live in country NSW and need advice on where to buy materials in
Australia.
Cheers
Christie :0)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just talked with a metalurgist friend. He says keep away from AL lugs with
alkaline electrolytes.
Bad mojo. Apparently the surface of aluminum that protects the aluminum from
corrosion is actually sapphire. If that gets nicked, the aluminum rapidly
deteriorates. Sometimes very rapidly. YIKES!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess what you want to say is that it may be beneficial to
upload a special LOW-res version of the movie, so the
message gets out and people will get interested, some of
them will buy the DVD that otherwise would not have known it
even existed, so the total sales may be larger that way.
I noticed that the beginning of the movie (I saw only the
first few minutes until I realized it was the full length)
had several places where the picture would get stuck while
the sound continued.
This may be an effect of my player, but I can see that an
uploaded low-res movie has some of those artifacts
built-in deliberately at random places in the movie, so
there is an incentive to buy the real thing, but it is
not so disturbing to quit viewing the free download if
you are interested in the message.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Davidson
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
Must be its no longer available on line. Was unable to locate it today. I
have already pre ordered my copies from Amazon.com For what it's worth, we
as EV enthusiasts should welcome any and all exposure we can get, even if
it means illegal downloads. Maybe if it was not in limited release to the
theatres, there would be more concern about bootleg copies. I feel we are in
desperate need of getting the message across to the masses using any methods
available. When the film was shown in Utica, NY I convinced the local media
to promote it, Mike Young displayed his Solectria during this event. If
someone went to the trouble to upload the film and "thousands" of people
have downloaded this bootleg copy-that means there is real interest in EV's
from the general public. Think of the positive-not the negative aspects of
this occurrence. The word is out and people are showing an interest!
Don Davidson
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Ellis<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
The "I'm buying it anyway" argument covers you when you download
something, but you have to remember that as you download it you are
sharing the peices of the file you've already received with
potentially thousands of people who WILL NOT be buying it.
Of course that didn't stop me.
Hypocritcally yours,
Mike
On 10/16/06, Philippe Borges
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> I must admit i find it on emule few weeks ago BUT here no way to just go
out
> and buy it... i'm other the pond.
> This said it's for my eyes only and i will purchase it (advertise it to
> friends also) as soon as it's available here !
> this is the most important: supporting Chris great work with massive
> purchase of this superbe film !
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
>
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr<http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/>
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
>
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php<http://vehiculeselectriq
ues.free.fr/Forum/index.php>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Weisenberger"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 6:11 PM
> Subject: Re: "Who Killed the Electric Car" IN FULL on the WEB ! ! !
>
>
> > While cool that we can see it, it appears to be an illegal up load.
Same
> sort of thing the music industry has been fighting. It was not released
by
> Sony or Chris Paine. Truth911.com is not a valid URL. I don't know about
> anyone else but I still plan on purchasing this from a Legal outlet to
have
> a copy for my self. In fact I have already pre-ordered it from Amazon.
Not
> purchasing a legal copy prevents future investment in similar venue. If
we
> the EV enthuist want to get the real message across, we can not support
> illegal copies of copywrited material that was not freely broadcast by
the
> producers. It would be like taking Otmars Zilla apart and copying it and
> selling it for $500.00 less. Or Rich Rudman PFC. Rich and Otmar support
the
> list by making EV products. If say Toyota grabbed up Rich's PFC charge
to
> build plug in Hybrid for example but paid Rich nothing for the design.
How
> would we feel as a community. So lets not download unless you plan on
buying
> it yourself anyway.
> >
> > Soapbox off
> >
> > Steven Lough
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> > Thanks to .... Truth911.com (and Google Video) The whole movie can
now
> > be seen in good quality) It seems to have been uploaded.
> >
> >
>
http://wagons.autoblog.com/2006/10/15/now-showing-on-autoblog-who-killed-the
-electric-car/<http://wagons.autoblog.com/2006/10/15/now-showing-on-autoblog
-who-killed-the-electric-car/>
> > --
> > Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> > Seattle EV Association
> > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> > Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> > Day: 206 850-8535
> > Eve: 206 524-1351
> > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > web: http://www.seattleeva.org<http://www.seattleeva.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
> countries) for 2¢/min or less.
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm having my adaptor plate made for my 07 Yaris and was wondering
what you all thought about using a lightweight flywheel. The factory
must be 20-25 lbs and the high performance one is 8lbs. I can get it
for about $200 and was wondering if would be worth it for overall
weight reduction and less weight spinning. (using clutch)
The ICE components on this car are only about 300-350 lbs! Plastic
tank, tiny radiator, etc. The curb weight is 2300 dry before ICE
removal. Best thing is a small AC compressor and electric power
steering!
Also- I'm using a Warp 9 and Zilla 1k and was considering a LSD in
the transmission since it is FWD and does not have much traction. Any
thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark Dutko
SF
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wondering about these connectors.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminum-mechanical-lug-for-copper-aluminum-2-0_W0QQitemZ3880647522QQihZ017QQcategoryZ7285QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
I have used them with lead batteries. Wonder how they would work with nicads?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger wrote -
> new distance remaining
> = distance travelled at prior rate of consumption
> * indicated fraction of 'fuel' remaining at new
> rate of consumption
> / indicated fraction of 'fuel' consumed at the
> prior rate of consumption
> = 15mi * 0.75 / 0.5
Roger -
If I have a mechanical odometer, how do I get the 'distance traveled' as a data
form? Do I have to get a digital mileage reader?. Then it would be just a
matter of getting the consumption rate data from the meter into a chip/program
that would do the math and display it on a readout of some sort.
I know that it is a *little* more complicated than that, but that is basically
the process, correct?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 16, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Paul G. wrote:
The fact that the capacity is there, but not available at some higher
rate, is one of the weaknesses of using a simple Peukert's correction
to the ah discharge (the issue of what the user expects next.) Still,
a properly programmed e-meter doesn't do to bad.
I feel lost here, I guess it's all going over my head...
Let's say I have a 100Ah pack. And I have a Ah counter that is set to
read "F" when reset (charge cycle), and "E" when it's at -100Ah. Now
say this counter/meter uses a Peukert's correction to scale the
display based on my current amp draw. So, when I nail the throttle,
the gauge needle slumps down closer to "E", and when I let up on the
pedal, it raises up back toward "F".
That is not how the e-meter does the math. What you are describing
could be approximated with an expanded scale volt meter and some
dampening. After all, we know that at 1.75 vpc lead should be
considered dead. Full varies slightly with the battery in question
(plate alloy, acid strength, temperature, and I'm sure more) but is
around 2.15 vpc. If you have a volt meter scaled for that voltage range
(for your pack) you have an idea of how much range is available at the
current demand. One issue is that every time you release the throttle
an EV quits using electricity (so range appears to be nearly infinite.)
The e-meter implements Peukert correction to the current amp draw and
does this several times a second to subtract the result from the
available capacity (for % of charge calculation.) First it needs the
batteries Peukert's capacity, which it can create when you enter the
batteries 20 hour capacity and the Peukert's exponent of your battery.
This capacity is, in theory, the number of hours your battery could
deliver 1 amp (amp hours at one amp.) The actual amps you are drawing
are raised by the Peukert's exponent and the result is subtracted from
the Peukert's capacity (or some alternate way to do the same thing.) So
the percent of charge only goes down.
The Peukerts exponent is generally something between 1.1 and 1.3 for
most of the batteries used in EVs, with AGMs near the lower number and
golf cart lead or gel batteries closer to the upper number. A typical
number for a good golf cart battery is 1.2. So 100 amp draws from this
battery are "corrected" to subtract at the rate of 251 amps. 300 amps
subtracts at the rate of 939 amps! Remember, the e-meter is doing this
several times a second, its not 251 or 939 amp hours, its this rate for
a fraction of a second converted into amp hours for the purpose of
subtracting from the Peukert's capacity. A typical good golf cart
battery has a Peukert's capacity of over 500.
If I place the throttle at 2/3 and leave it there (freeway hill), my
car will stop (low voltage cutoff) around when the needle reaches "E".
If I then lift the throttle to 1/3, the needle will climb back up and
the car will continue (at a slower speed) and stop around when the
needle reaches "E" again, right?
What exactly is wrong with this behavior?
You stop at a stop light and your capacity reads full because you can
go for days at that rate? I don't think this would be good behavior!
But there are other issues too. Let's say you take some surface streets
at low speed to get to a freeway, then blast (not likely in western WA)
down the freeway a few miles to your work exit. You exit the freeway
and take in some stop and go miles to get to work. You reverse this
process on the way home. When you get to work do you know if the pack
has the capacity to take you home? The "fuel gauge" function needs to
integrate used capacity into the reading. Peukert correction by
subtraction does pretty good. On the other hand, if you live at 500 ft.
elevation and work at 50 ft. elevation even the Peukert correction runs
into issues (and yes, I used to do exactly that.) The issue is that
available capacity was subtracted to slowly, because the average amp
draw on the way to work was much lower than on the way home. In my case
it didn't make any difference since I had an easy 40 mile range;
however, 92% when I got to work and 70% when I got home wasn't
encouraging.
I guess I don't have a good solution. When the Peukert's exponent is
pretty low (like 1.1 for Optimas) I would just as soon figure what the
reasonably available amp hour capacity is and use that (my buggy lacks
an e-meter but it must be around 30 to 36 amp hours.)
HTH,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've come in on the middle of this thread but has anyone gone to the Sony
site?
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/
I found the trailer at Google Video and then went straight to the source.
Cheers
Christie :0)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since the flywheel is geared weight (think about how hard little flywheel toy
cars are to push), you get about 3x the effect of lightening it. So dropping
about 15 lbs on your flywheel is like dropping 45 pounds off the car elsewhere
when you are accelerating -- as if the car was about 2% lighter. So if you do
lots of steady speed cruising, your range will only grow about 0.25%. If you do
lots of stop and go, your range will go up at most about 2%.
So for practical purposes is it doubtful it is worth it, unless you are looking
to shave 0.1 seconds off your 1/4 mile time, or need a little more weight
budget for another battery. A good compromise would be to have the starter ring
and excess material machined off the original flywheel.
If you are going to race or drive on snow or just accelerate hard for the sheer
joy of it, then yes on limited slip. Otherwise, not worth it. Final thought: Is
a Yaris up to the kind of driving typically associated with a lighter flywheel
and limited slip?
----- Original Message ----
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:58:07 PM
Subject: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
I'm having my adaptor plate made for my 07 Yaris and was wondering
what you all thought about using a lightweight flywheel. The factory
must be 20-25 lbs and the high performance one is 8lbs. I can get it
for about $200 and was wondering if would be worth it for overall
weight reduction and less weight spinning. (using clutch)
The ICE components on this car are only about 300-350 lbs! Plastic
tank, tiny radiator, etc. The curb weight is 2300 dry before ICE
removal. Best thing is a small AC compressor and electric power
steering!
Also- I'm using a Warp 9 and Zilla 1k and was considering a LSD in
the transmission since it is FWD and does not have much traction. Any
thoughts?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's no MINI, I have an S, but even with stock setup the Yaris
handles quite well. Toyota racing makes the LSD for the Vitts which
is the Yaris in Japan. I do se the LSD as useful in San Francisco
driving..
Thanks..
On Oct 17, 2006, at 4:31 PM, David Dymaxion wrote:
Since the flywheel is geared weight (think about how hard little
flywheel toy cars are to push), you get about 3x the effect of
lightening it. So dropping about 15 lbs on your flywheel is like
dropping 45 pounds off the car elsewhere when you are accelerating
-- as if the car was about 2% lighter. So if you do lots of steady
speed cruising, your range will only grow about 0.25%. If you do
lots of stop and go, your range will go up at most about 2%.
So for practical purposes is it doubtful it is worth it, unless you
are looking to shave 0.1 seconds off your 1/4 mile time, or need a
little more weight budget for another battery. A good compromise
would be to have the starter ring and excess material machined off
the original flywheel.
If you are going to race or drive on snow or just accelerate hard
for the sheer joy of it, then yes on limited slip. Otherwise, not
worth it. Final thought: Is a Yaris up to the kind of driving
typically associated with a lighter flywheel and limited slip?
----- Original Message ----
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 4:58:07 PM
Subject: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
I'm having my adaptor plate made for my 07 Yaris and was wondering
what you all thought about using a lightweight flywheel. The factory
must be 20-25 lbs and the high performance one is 8lbs. I can get it
for about $200 and was wondering if would be worth it for overall
weight reduction and less weight spinning. (using clutch)
The ICE components on this car are only about 300-350 lbs! Plastic
tank, tiny radiator, etc. The curb weight is 2300 dry before ICE
removal. Best thing is a small AC compressor and electric power
steering!
Also- I'm using a Warp 9 and Zilla 1k and was considering a LSD in
the transmission since it is FWD and does not have much traction. Any
thoughts?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
Guys... I HAVE the best battery chemistry in hand!!!
Any other great claims to fame above and Beyond Lithium Iron Phosphate are
Bull shit.
Cool! So battery development progress should stop here then...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK, let's drop off the "batteries have to last 5 years" idea first,
> since the only way lead will do that is if you drive a few thousand
> miles a year, and NiMH just aren't made in large sizes since Chevron
> bought out the patent.
So, now called Cobasys? "Chevron" NiMH batts seen here:
http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/transportation/Series9500/Series_9500_Brochure.html
or tiny here:
http://tinyurl.com/ygfsdn
Cobasys has a dealie with Enova,mentioned in the EVDL in September:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/74660
And Enova has a dealie with IC Corporation ("the Nation's Largest
School Bus Manufacturer") for their new hybrid buses.
IC news release from July here:
http://www.ic-corp.com/site_layout/news/newsdetail.asp?id=772
Also in September, Cobasys parent Energy Conversion Devices
(ECD)announced that Cobasys batts will be used in GMs 2007 Saturn VUE
Green Line, plus is working with Crysler on a Dodge Durango hybrid.
Cobasys plans include hiring 150 additional persons over the next three
years.
Cobasys is a joint venture, owned by Chevron and ECD, so numbers aren't
maybe easy to find, but stuff like parent ECD's Form 10-K from
September 13 can make interesting reading:
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/060913/ener10-k.html
Yeah, OK, so still maybe unobtainium for hobby folks, but wrecked VUEs
and Durangos and whatever coming to junk yards near you maybe as soon
as next year? Wonder where they'll be parking those new hybrid school
buses at night? <wink>
Lock
Toronto
Human/Electric Hybrid
ps... Makes me want to throw up when I read about Ohio giving money
away to Chevron for Cobasys plant and equipment. Yeah, it's for a good
cause I guess, but $750K for Chevron seems like pocket change (they
took home $14Mill for their shareholders last year)?
http://www.cobasys.com/news/PressReleases/20060822.htm
sorry, probably OT for evdl
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 76 modules and several restraints for charging and discharging,(
You need them for both), and two BMS computers for 38 modules. The
voltage of 38 modules can run pretty high. Well in excess of 300 volts,
so I found the computers not of much use for a motorcycle pack. If the
ambient temps are reasonable, you can charge them easily to and above
8.4 volts per module. When left to sit idle they will start to decrease
in voltage and in about a month or six weeks, will be down to about 7.8
volts and will finally even out at 7.63 volts. I bought these two packs
for $1200 at a wreckers where they had been for 1 1/2 and 2 years.
Every battery in both packs was exactly 7.63 volts. The nominal
voltage for these modules is 7.2 volts. They only put out about 200
amps. In a car you can easily make up three packs of 192 volts and put
the packs in parallel for 600 amps. If you need more power you will
have to use more batteries. These batteries weigh 2.53 lbs each, so 75
batteries in three packs with the restraints on them would weigh about
225 pounds.
I tried two 192 volt packs in my motorcycle once and found the amps not
enough for dragging and also started having back pains which kept me out
of my shop. I then stopped and pondered a moment and decided that with
my 86th birthday coming up rapidly, I had better give up drag racing.
All the batteries and the allied equipment including a thermometer with
probe, I will sell for $1000 plus shipping.
Any body interested can contact me @ [EMAIL PROTECTED],net or 208 772 6159
or 1284 Linwood Drive
Hayden, ID 83835.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
When you're lucky and you find them, around $500
which gives you 38 modules.
NOTE: in operatoin the modules need to be contained
as when you are using them without mechanical support
you will swell and blow them easily, this was witnessed
by other members on this list.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dmitri
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for.
Anybody
know?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius cars.
> Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
> http://www.electric7.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
>
--- End Message ---
