EV Digest 6036
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fuel gauge Peukert correction, was: lee's emeter companion?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery brands
by Aaron Lamperti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by "Joseph H. Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Prius battery pack
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: 250 amp breaker poping
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: 250 amp breaker poping
by "Rick Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OEM ELECTRIC HEATER/fuse spec
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 250 amp breaker poping
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: 3-wheeler, was: Interesting article on the Hydrogen Economy
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: OEM ELECTRIC HEATER/fuse spec
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Prius battery pack
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Prius battery pack
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Comm pictures from my 8" ADC
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have both, on purpose. I kept my transmmission and clutch because I wanted to
use mechanical
reverse and I wanted more gear ratios than direct drive would provide. I took
my flywheel to a
machine shop and had it lightened. If I could have afforded it, I would have
bought a lightweight
aluminum flywheel for even better results.
Now about the LSD, there seems to be a bit of controversy. I swapped my
transmission to get LSD in
my RWD car, and believe it well worth it. Where you'll notice the difference is
in marginal
situations; wet/icy/slippery roads, steep hills, stop signs, when you need to
cross a busy street.
You won't notice a difference most of the time. I'm not talking about driving
on the track, or
powering through corners on some windy backs roads. (But it does help.)
Driving in San Franscisco I would think you'd need it more than most people.
There you are,
pulling up to a stop sign at one of your infamous SF hills, looking up at the
sky because the hill
is so steep. You need to cross the interesction, but traffic is busy. Of course
the roads are wet,
and you take off.
Without LSD, you are more likely to start spinning one rear wheel, which will
only put your nose 3
feet into the intersection. Were there any cars coming from the right or left?
Maybe only a dog
(Greyhound.) Because now you are just sitting right in their path? Let off the
gas and try again,
but you are still in trouble because you haven't crested the hill and the car
is fighting gravity.
You're right on the hairy edge of traction. You let off the gas and try again,
but by now there
are cars bearing down on you and you need to get out of the way. How about this
scenario in
winter?
Limited slip differentials will give you better traction! If you start spinning
both wheels and
the car swerves sidways, you can't blame anyone but yourself. You need to get
your foot out of the
gas as soon as you start moving sideways. If your controller won't let you
start off smoothly, be
happy driving in quarter mile trips, but keep it off public highways. In the
above wet hill
scenario, you will always do better with LSD. In New England, we are in leaf
dropping seasons, so
that right wheel is often sitting in a pile of wet leaves. That's about as
slippery as you can
get. And the snow will be flying soon. I do have 4wd in my truck, but it still
has an ICE (for
now.)
About the only time I've seen someone spin their car sideways, it's been a
teenager with 2 months
on their license, trying to impress their friends. It's easy to avoid spinning
both tires, it's
harder keeping equal traction from two tires on a slippery road without LSD.
Go for the lighter flywheel AND the LSD. Ok, my rant is over.
My two wheels of tractions worth.
Dave Cover
--- MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm having my adaptor plate made for my 07 Yaris and was wondering
> what you all thought about using a lightweight flywheel. The factory
> must be 20-25 lbs and the high performance one is 8lbs. I can get it
> for about $200 and was wondering if would be worth it for overall
> weight reduction and less weight spinning. (using clutch)
>
> The ICE components on this car are only about 300-350 lbs! Plastic
> tank, tiny radiator, etc. The curb weight is 2300 dry before ICE
> removal. Best thing is a small AC compressor and electric power
> steering!
>
> Also- I'm using a Warp 9 and Zilla 1k and was considering a LSD in
> the transmission since it is FWD and does not have much traction. Any
> thoughts?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Mark Dutko
> SF
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 17, 2006, at 9:53 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
I have to point out people are calling something Peukert's which is
not Peukert's. Somebody need to make up a name for this algorithm
because it's something different.
Paul G. wrote:
The e-meter implements Peukert correction to the current amp draw and
does this several times a second to subtract the result from the
available capacity (for % of charge calculation.) First it needs the
batteries Peukert's capacity, which it can create when you enter the
batteries 20 hour capacity and the Peukert's exponent of your
battery. This capacity is, in theory, the number of hours your
battery could deliver 1 amp (amp hours at one amp.) The actual amps
you are drawing are raised by the Peukert's exponent and the result
is subtracted from the Peukert's capacity (or some alternate way to
do the same thing.) So the percent of charge only goes down.
Would you care to explain to me why that is not Peukert's formula in
action? Pc = I^Pe * T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the house is off grid PV with generator backup.
The battery in the car is 12 trojan 30XHS's in series. Car is a 1990
honda civic wagon (AWD). Curtis controller. Zivan charger. I have
extra space since I've just devoted the hatch area to 8 of the
batteries and the 4 in front have generous space. Weight is more the
issue. I figure the 450 lbs of batteries in the back are my two
passengers and cargo already.
Aaron Lamperti
On Oct 17, 2006, at 11:15 PM, Rush wrote:
When you say for your house, do you mean as in a battery pack for
renewable energy to power your house? If so hands down on the 6 v
batteries, in fact if you can use the L-16 because of the amphour
reserve that they have. Even though they are bigger and heavier,
for renewable energy they are the best.
As to your car, what is your battery pack v? What is the physical
space you have? What kind of controller do you have? etc?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I used a chain drive coupling instead of the Lovejoy with no clutch. The
Lovejoy coupling has a rubber insert which will need to be replaced sooner
or later, and isn't as strong as a chain drive coupling..
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
> Electric conversions that use a manual transmissions do not need a clutch.
It can be removed and in place a direct connection can be made. A lovejoy
coupling should be used. It is a hard rubber connection so that there is a
little give when the motor starts.
>
> And if need be, the transmission can be shifted while moving for either a
lower or higher gear.
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
> Mark wrote
>
>
> > Yes- on tran, need the flywheel for the clutch...
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/480 - Release Date: 10/17/2006
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Subject: Prius battery pack
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, October 17, 2006 8:49 pm
To: <[email protected]>
Hi Folks,
Anybody out there who is building an EV using a bunch of used Prius
batteries? I would like to hear their experiences, thanks
JJ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The proper way to wire a three phase breaker for up to 500VDC application is
the following
Now this doesn't go for all breakers but most of them are this way.
________
| |
| |
| +Bat | -Bat
| | | |
| )----)----)
| | | |
| | | |
|___| |LOAD|
-Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker poping
ah, can you explain wiring in series?
do mean just use one "leg" of the 3-gang breaker?
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael I use a 3 phase AC breaker, purchased from a demolition
> outfit. I have been told by electrical engineers that the DC rating
> of an AC breaker is 1/3 the AC rating, so just get a 400A 3 phase
> ganged breaker and run your cable series through the breaker. In my
> case, I have my 3 phase breaker split the pack into lower voltage
> subpacks - but I have a 312V pack.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: October 17, 2006 6:25 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: 250 amp breaker poping
>
> Hello
>
> I have this 86 toyota PU running with a 9"warp, a
> logisystem controller 1209
> at 550amp/120v, and 20 6volt sam's club batteries.
>
> Only using a 250 amp breaker, but it seems to pop to
> frequently. Even though
> my emeter says I'm at 150 it can pop.
>
> Perhaps I should upgrade with 4 more batteries,
> becuase I have a 144volt
> controller.
>
> But is there a cheap place to get a 400amp breaker?
>
> Thanks!
> Michael Golub
> Fairbanks
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also see if you have trip setting dials on the 250A breaker This is common
in Siemens. Eaton and Square D. Not sure about heinneman and others but its
worth a look. If that's the case just dial it up until it stops tripping.
-Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker poping
Michael I use a 3 phase AC breaker, purchased from a demolition outfit. I
have been told by electrical engineers that the DC rating of an AC breaker
is 1/3 the AC rating, so just get a 400A 3 phase ganged breaker and run your
cable series through the breaker. In my case, I have my 3 phase breaker
split the pack into lower voltage subpacks - but I have a 312V pack.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: October 17, 2006 6:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 250 amp breaker poping
Hello
I have this 86 toyota PU running with a 9"warp, a logisystem controller 1209
at 550amp/120v, and 20 6volt sam's club batteries.
Only using a 250 amp breaker, but it seems to pop to frequently. Even though
my emeter says I'm at 150 it can pop.
Perhaps I should upgrade with 4 more batteries, becuase I have a 144volt
controller.
But is there a cheap place to get a 400amp breaker?
Thanks!
Michael Golub
Fairbanks
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My 2001 Echo had a PTC aux heater (probably the same as the Yaris- it's
really the same car with some sheet metal changes).
It was fed through a dedicated 50 amp fuse, and controlled by a 40 amp
relay. So, it most likely draws less than 40 amps max. (13.5 V * 40 amps =
540 watts). So, it's not a lot of heat, but can help defrost the windshield
as you're starting out.
According to the wiring manual, it comes on when ALL of the following are
true:
1. The engine coolant temp is below a certain temp.
2. The engine RPM is above a minimum RPM - and has been for 5 seconds or
more, continuously. (This is to make sure you the alternator can keep up
with the current draw)
3. The heat control is on max.
4. The heater blower is on.
As far as other cars having this feature - maybe they do and it's a
well-kept secret. My 2000 Echo has this also, so it's not new.
Until I took the Echo apart, I had no idea that it had this extra heating
element. I've never seen it in any ad or description of the car. And, it
never occured to me when driving the car ( before its conversion) that it
had this. At the time, I just though it heat up quickly because it has such
a small engine.
Phil
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OEM ELECTRIC HEATER/fuse spec
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:18:26 -0700
It looks like it has two feeds one with a 40A and one with a 30A fuse-
2-stage I guess...
On Oct 17, 2006, at 10:40 PM, John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
An interesting topic!
MARK DUTKO wrote:
To clarify- there is an electric 12v heater next to the ac condenser in
the cabin so that when the engine is cold you can get hot air in the
cabin until the car warms up to supply the normal cabin heat. This
heater is part of a "cold weather package" for certain US markets. So
when the engine coolant is cold and can't supply heat to the cabin, the
12v heater warms the cabin initially.
I've wondered for years now, why this feature hasn't been offered in
newer vehicles sold in cold weather areas before. Relying on just 12V, it
couldn't be a 'killer' heater of say 2000 watts, and most likely isn't
even a 1500 watt heater, but I bet they could do an 1100 watt unit fairly
easily. If the heater can't be switched-on until the gas engine is
started, then it could rely on the bump up from 12V battery level power
to 14+V from the alternator. 14V X 80 amps for example, would be 1120
watts...enough to make substantial heat you could feel right away. Most
new cars have at least a 100 amp alternator, many have 120 amp models. A
120 amp alternator has enough capacity that it could give 40 amps to
replenish the juice taken out of the battery for cranking and also run
headlights right initially after start-up, while 80 amps would be
left-over and available to run the heater core. Better still though,
would be a 150 amp alternator with 50 amps to recharge and run stuff
right after start-up and 100 full amps for 1400 watts of instant heat. Of
course, another way to go would be a second 120 amp alternator. Now
that, would be nice! 120 amps X 14V is 1680 watts! A second alternator,
bracketry and cables might add another 20 lbs. to the car, but if it's 0
degrees outside, man, that would be worth it.
I don't think it's a viable alternative to simply running a higher
voltage rated ceramic element or two, directly off the EV's high voltage
pack as most EVers do. It's hard enough to get a good 50 amp DC-DC. let
alone one that can put out 100-120 amps, thus an 80-100 amp load on an
EV's DC-DC converter would be impracticle and not as energy efficient.
For gas and diesel powered vehicles that take a while to warm up however,
it's sure a welcome idea. The diesel service truck I use every day in my
forklift wrenching work situation takes forever to make decent heat, and
on c-cold mornings while waiting and waiting and waiting for heat to be
available, it would be nifty to instead, simply kick on a 12V based
heater element in the air stream flow of the factory heating system for
some instant heat!
Mark, if you find the specs of this Toyota 12V factory electric assist
heating element (probably ceramic), I and others would be very interested
to find out what kind of wattage it's rated for @ 14V.
I bet, that with this special cold weather package, the car comes with a
stouter higher output alternator so there's enough juice to feed the
heating element. I'll also bet that there is a thermal cut- out based on
the warmed-up ICE coolant, so that once the ICE has enough heat
available, the electric mode goes dead to give the alternator a break
from near max output. It will be interesting to hear more.
See Ya......John Wayland
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Thanks for your input, could you give me more specifics on your project? I
am trying something similar with an EV and getting only discouragement as
too dangerous. What is a good time to call you? thanks
JJ
> I have 76 modules and several restraints for charging and discharging,(
> You need them for both), and two BMS computers for 38 modules. The
> voltage of 38 modules can run pretty high. Well in excess of 300 volts,
> so I found the computers not of much use for a motorcycle pack. If the
> ambient temps are reasonable, you can charge them easily to and above
> 8.4 volts per module. When left to sit idle they will start to decrease
> in voltage and in about a month or six weeks, will be down to about 7.8
> volts and will finally even out at 7.63 volts. I bought these two packs
> for $1200 at a wreckers where they had been for 1 1/2 and 2 years. Every
> battery in both packs was exactly 7.63 volts. The nominal voltage for
> these modules is 7.2 volts. They only put out about 200 amps. In a car
> you can easily make up three packs of 192 volts and put the packs in
> parallel for 600 amps. If you need more power you will have to use more
> batteries. These batteries weigh 2.53 lbs each, so 75 batteries in
> three packs with the restraints on them would weigh about 225 pounds.
> I tried two 192 volt packs in my motorcycle once and found the amps not
> enough for dragging and also started having back pains which kept me out
> of my shop. I then stopped and pondered a moment and decided that with
> my 86th birthday coming up rapidly, I had better give up drag racing.
> All the batteries and the allied equipment including a thermometer with
> probe, I will sell for $1000 plus shipping.
> Any body interested can contact me @ [EMAIL PROTECTED],net or 208 772 6159
> or 1284 Linwood Drive
> Hayden, ID 83835.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:19 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
>
> When you're lucky and you find them, around $500
> which gives you 38 modules.
>
> NOTE: in operatoin the modules need to be contained
> as when you are using them without mechanical support
> you will swell and blow them easily, this was witnessed
> by other members on this list.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dmitri
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:51 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
>
>
> That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for.
> Anybody
> know?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
> Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
>
>
>> Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius cars.
>> Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
>> http://www.electric7.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>>
>> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>>
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Clutchless conversions don't work well for everyone.
Although I've never done it myself, several people have reported ( on this
list) that they were not happy with a clutchless car that they had to shift.
Try shifting your ICE car without using the clutch. It can be done, but
it's VERY slow, takes a lot of concentration, and likely wears the heck out
of the synchros.
Granted, there's less rotating inertia with the electric motor than the
original ICE engine. but the same problem apparetly exists.
Unless you're racing, the added flywheel/clutch inertia wouldn't make much
difference. And, if you are racing, you want to be able to shift quickly,
right?
Phil
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 22:23:18 -0700
Electric conversions that use a manual transmissions do not need a clutch.
It can be removed and in place a direct connection can be made. A lovejoy
coupling should be used. It is a hard rubber connection so that there is a
little give when the motor starts.
And if need be, the transmission can be shifted while moving for either a
lower or higher gear.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Mark wrote
> Yes- on tran, need the flywheel for the clutch...
>
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wired in series means that the current has only one path from negative to
the positive.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
--- My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker poping
ah, can you explain wiring in series?
do mean just use one "leg" of the 3-gang breaker?
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Michael I use a 3 phase AC breaker, purchased from a
demolition outfit. I
have been told by electrical engineers that the DC
rating of an AC breaker
is 1/3 the AC rating, so just get a 400A 3 phase
ganged breaker and run your
cable series through the breaker. In my case, I
have my 3 phase breaker
split the pack into lower voltage subpacks - but I
have a 312V pack.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of mike golub
Sent: October 17, 2006 6:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 250 amp breaker poping
Hello
I have this 86 toyota PU running with a 9"warp, a
logisystem controller 1209
at 550amp/120v, and 20 6volt sam's club batteries.
Only using a 250 amp breaker, but it seems to pop to
frequently. Even though
my emeter says I'm at 150 it can pop.
Perhaps I should upgrade with 4 more batteries,
becuase I have a 144volt
controller.
But is there a cheap place to get a 400amp breaker?
Thanks!
Michael Golub
Fairbanks
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Dave. I agree, as I mentioned I have it in my Mini and it has
be nothing but a benefit! If the electronic traction control is on I
get no acceleration due to the computer slowing me down, when I turn
it off the car takes off and you can feel the LSD work and the car
bite the road. This is all a mute point as I am selling the MINI to
fund the yaris conversion! As far as the flywheel I was not sure but
the high performance one is balanced and would only be about $250, In
such a small car I would think it would help.
Mark
On Oct 18, 2006, at 5:18 AM, Dave Cover wrote:
I have both, on purpose. I kept my transmmission and clutch because
I wanted to use mechanical
reverse and I wanted more gear ratios than direct drive would
provide. I took my flywheel to a
machine shop and had it lightened. If I could have afforded it, I
would have bought a lightweight
aluminum flywheel for even better results.
Now about the LSD, there seems to be a bit of controversy. I
swapped my transmission to get LSD in
my RWD car, and believe it well worth it. Where you'll notice the
difference is in marginal
situations; wet/icy/slippery roads, steep hills, stop signs, when
you need to cross a busy street.
You won't notice a difference most of the time. I'm not talking
about driving on the track, or
powering through corners on some windy backs roads. (But it does
help.)
Driving in San Franscisco I would think you'd need it more than
most people. There you are,
pulling up to a stop sign at one of your infamous SF hills, looking
up at the sky because the hill
is so steep. You need to cross the interesction, but traffic is
busy. Of course the roads are wet,
and you take off.
Without LSD, you are more likely to start spinning one rear wheel,
which will only put your nose 3
feet into the intersection. Were there any cars coming from the
right or left? Maybe only a dog
(Greyhound.) Because now you are just sitting right in their path?
Let off the gas and try again,
but you are still in trouble because you haven't crested the hill
and the car is fighting gravity.
You're right on the hairy edge of traction. You let off the gas and
try again, but by now there
are cars bearing down on you and you need to get out of the way.
How about this scenario in
winter?
Limited slip differentials will give you better traction! If you
start spinning both wheels and
the car swerves sidways, you can't blame anyone but yourself. You
need to get your foot out of the
gas as soon as you start moving sideways. If your controller won't
let you start off smoothly, be
happy driving in quarter mile trips, but keep it off public
highways. In the above wet hill
scenario, you will always do better with LSD. In New England, we
are in leaf dropping seasons, so
that right wheel is often sitting in a pile of wet leaves. That's
about as slippery as you can
get. And the snow will be flying soon. I do have 4wd in my truck,
but it still has an ICE (for
now.)
About the only time I've seen someone spin their car sideways, it's
been a teenager with 2 months
on their license, trying to impress their friends. It's easy to
avoid spinning both tires, it's
harder keeping equal traction from two tires on a slippery road
without LSD.
Go for the lighter flywheel AND the LSD. Ok, my rant is over.
My two wheels of tractions worth.
Dave Cover
--- MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm having my adaptor plate made for my 07 Yaris and was wondering
what you all thought about using a lightweight flywheel. The factory
must be 20-25 lbs and the high performance one is 8lbs. I can get it
for about $200 and was wondering if would be worth it for overall
weight reduction and less weight spinning. (using clutch)
The ICE components on this car are only about 300-350 lbs! Plastic
tank, tiny radiator, etc. The curb weight is 2300 dry before ICE
removal. Best thing is a small AC compressor and electric power
steering!
Also- I'm using a Warp 9 and Zilla 1k and was considering a LSD in
the transmission since it is FWD and does not have much traction. Any
thoughts?
Thanks,
Mark Dutko
SF
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most interesting with the 3-wheeler is Jay buying a home-made
contraption...good to see it.
He owns lots of historic cars including at least 3 original steam cars,
including a Doble.
Anyway, Leno already owns 1 or 2 antique EVs: A 1909 Baker Electric and an
Owens Magnetic.
I'd love to check out his geerage!
-Myles
> Anyway, while browsing through the article and
> generally not amusing myself I noticed a little
> 3-wheeler picture in the top right corner.
> Seems that Jay Leno is very interested in old cars.
> Maybe Myles can show him a very good working EV ;-)
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/jay_leno_garage/3475911.html
> Note that this 3-wheeler was built by a 17 yo out of
> a motorcycle and an A-Ford.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JJ,
All batterys are dangerous. The question is do you have the tools to
play safely with them?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Thanks for your input, could you give me more specifics on your
project? I
> am trying something similar with an EV and getting only
discouragement as
> too dangerous. What is a good time to call you? thanks
> JJ
>
> > I have 76 modules and several restraints for charging and
discharging,(
> > You need them for both), and two BMS computers for 38 modules. The
> > voltage of 38 modules can run pretty high. Well in excess of 300
volts,
> > so I found the computers not of much use for a motorcycle pack.
If the
> > ambient temps are reasonable, you can charge them easily to and above
> > 8.4 volts per module. When left to sit idle they will start to
decrease
> > in voltage and in about a month or six weeks, will be down to
about 7.8
> > volts and will finally even out at 7.63 volts. I bought these two
packs
> > for $1200 at a wreckers where they had been for 1 1/2 and 2 years.
Every
> > battery in both packs was exactly 7.63 volts. The nominal
voltage for
> > these modules is 7.2 volts. They only put out about 200 amps. In
a car
> > you can easily make up three packs of 192 volts and put the packs in
> > parallel for 600 amps. If you need more power you will have to
use more
> > batteries. These batteries weigh 2.53 lbs each, so 75 batteries in
> > three packs with the restraints on them would weigh about 225 pounds.
> > I tried two 192 volt packs in my motorcycle once and found the
amps not
> > enough for dragging and also started having back pains which kept
me out
> > of my shop. I then stopped and pondered a moment and decided that
with
> > my 86th birthday coming up rapidly, I had better give up drag racing.
> > All the batteries and the allied equipment including a thermometer
with
> > probe, I will sell for $1000 plus shipping.
> > Any body interested can contact me @ [EMAIL PROTECTED],net or 208 772 6159
> > or 1284 Linwood Drive
> > Hayden, ID 83835.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:19 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> >
> > When you're lucky and you find them, around $500
> > which gives you 38 modules.
> >
> > NOTE: in operatoin the modules need to be contained
> > as when you are using them without mechanical support
> > you will swell and blow them easily, this was witnessed
> > by other members on this list.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Dmitri
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:51 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> >
> >
> > That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for.
> > Anybody
> > know?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
> > Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> >
> >
> >> Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius
cars.
> >> Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
> >> http://www.electric7.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> >>
> >> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> >>
> >>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When the car was cold did it give adequate heat- remember it's a
little warmer here, except in the summer!
Mark- SF
On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:26 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
My 2001 Echo had a PTC aux heater (probably the same as the Yaris-
it's really the same car with some sheet metal changes).
It was fed through a dedicated 50 amp fuse, and controlled by a 40
amp relay. So, it most likely draws less than 40 amps max. (13.5 V
* 40 amps = 540 watts). So, it's not a lot of heat, but can help
defrost the windshield as you're starting out.
According to the wiring manual, it comes on when ALL of the
following are true:
1. The engine coolant temp is below a certain temp.
2. The engine RPM is above a minimum RPM - and has been for 5
seconds or more, continuously. (This is to make sure you the
alternator can keep up with the current draw)
3. The heat control is on max.
4. The heater blower is on.
As far as other cars having this feature - maybe they do and it's a
well-kept secret. My 2000 Echo has this also, so it's not new.
Until I took the Echo apart, I had no idea that it had this extra
heating element. I've never seen it in any ad or description of the
car. And, it never occured to me when driving the car ( before its
conversion) that it had this. At the time, I just though it heat
up quickly because it has such a small engine.
Phil
From: MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: OEM ELECTRIC HEATER/fuse spec
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:18:26 -0700
It looks like it has two feeds one with a 40A and one with a 30A
fuse- 2-stage I guess...
On Oct 17, 2006, at 10:40 PM, John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
An interesting topic!
MARK DUTKO wrote:
To clarify- there is an electric 12v heater next to the ac
condenser in the cabin so that when the engine is cold you can
get hot air in the cabin until the car warms up to supply the
normal cabin heat. This heater is part of a "cold weather
package" for certain US markets. So when the engine coolant is
cold and can't supply heat to the cabin, the 12v heater warms
the cabin initially.
I've wondered for years now, why this feature hasn't been
offered in newer vehicles sold in cold weather areas before.
Relying on just 12V, it couldn't be a 'killer' heater of say
2000 watts, and most likely isn't even a 1500 watt heater, but I
bet they could do an 1100 watt unit fairly easily. If the heater
can't be switched-on until the gas engine is started, then it
could rely on the bump up from 12V battery level power to 14+V
from the alternator. 14V X 80 amps for example, would be 1120
watts...enough to make substantial heat you could feel right
away. Most new cars have at least a 100 amp alternator, many
have 120 amp models. A 120 amp alternator has enough capacity
that it could give 40 amps to replenish the juice taken out of
the battery for cranking and also run headlights right initially
after start-up, while 80 amps would be left-over and available
to run the heater core. Better still though, would be a 150 amp
alternator with 50 amps to recharge and run stuff right after
start-up and 100 full amps for 1400 watts of instant heat. Of
course, another way to go would be a second 120 amp alternator.
Now that, would be nice! 120 amps X 14V is 1680 watts! A second
alternator, bracketry and cables might add another 20 lbs. to
the car, but if it's 0 degrees outside, man, that would be worth
it.
I don't think it's a viable alternative to simply running a
higher voltage rated ceramic element or two, directly off the
EV's high voltage pack as most EVers do. It's hard enough to get
a good 50 amp DC-DC. let alone one that can put out 100-120
amps, thus an 80-100 amp load on an EV's DC-DC converter would
be impracticle and not as energy efficient. For gas and diesel
powered vehicles that take a while to warm up however, it's sure
a welcome idea. The diesel service truck I use every day in my
forklift wrenching work situation takes forever to make decent
heat, and on c-cold mornings while waiting and waiting and
waiting for heat to be available, it would be nifty to instead,
simply kick on a 12V based heater element in the air stream flow
of the factory heating system for some instant heat!
Mark, if you find the specs of this Toyota 12V factory electric
assist heating element (probably ceramic), I and others would be
very interested to find out what kind of wattage it's rated for @
14V.
I bet, that with this special cold weather package, the car
comes with a stouter higher output alternator so there's enough
juice to feed the heating element. I'll also bet that there is a
thermal cut- out based on the warmed-up ICE coolant, so that once
the ICE has enough heat available, the electric mode goes dead
to give the alternator a break from near max output. It will be
interesting to hear more.
See Ya......John Wayland
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live
Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/
friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So are the Prius modules still in their metal enclosures?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Subject: Prius battery pack
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, October 17, 2006 8:49 pm
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Anybody out there who is building an EV using a bunch of used Prius
> batteries? I would like to hear their experiences, thanks
> JJ
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took them out to study the structure, have all the parts and can
reassemble them back if I need to.
JJ
> So are the Prius modules still in their metal enclosures?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Subject: Prius battery pack
>> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Tue, October 17, 2006 8:49 pm
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Anybody out there who is building an EV using a bunch of used Prius
>> batteries? I would like to hear their experiences, thanks
>> JJ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
--- End Message ---
