EV Digest 6037
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Can 2 x contactors be put in series to handle more current?
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: CX 500 Conversion
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Charging A123 Batteries 36V Li-Ion Charger and BMS
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What's the most efficent way to connect my ADC 9' motor to a
car?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: 250 amp breaker poping
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: What's the most efficent way to connect my ADC 9" motor to a car?
by "Chris Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Firefly & Electrolux
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Prius battery pack
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: OEM ELECTRIC HEATER/fuse spec
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Distance remaining meter - was lee's emeter companion
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fuel gauge Peukert correction, was: lee's emeter companion?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: OEM ELECTRIC HEATER/fuse spec
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Distance remaining meter - was lee's emeter companion
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: multiple chargers
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OEM ELECTRIC HEATER
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Hi, starting my first EV project
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This has been discussed before. I will have a 180 v pack and asked if it was
alright to have 2 Albright SW200's so as to act as one contactor for my 180 v.
Here is Lee Harts response
----- Original Message -----
Lee wrote -
On - Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:12 AM
About - Re: [Evtech] Contactors - surrounding circuitry
> Dan Bentler wrote:
>> I'll go along with your air gap statement BUT one has to open first -
>> forget simultaneus - now if it faults and keeps conducting well then you
>> now hope the second switch will interrupt.
>
> The voltage rating of switch contacts in series really do add when you can be
> *sure* that both switches open at the the same time. You can guarantee this
> by mechanically coupling them. This is commonly done in circuit breakers
> where their lever arms are connected. You also see it in switches and
> contactors that actuate multiple contacts at once.
>
> It is harder to guarantee simultaneous actuation when two separate contactors
> are involved, but it is still possible. You can wire their coils in parallel,
> but have to insure that you can't have a fault that breaks coil power to just
> one coil at a time. One way is to wire the coils in series. Another is to use
> auxiliary contacts on each to force the other off.
>
> I agree that nothing mechanical is truly "simultaneous"; one contact always
> opens first. But, most contacts are designed to withstand a half-cycle of
> arcing (8 msec at 60 Hz). So as long as the two contacts open within 8 msec
> or so of each other, that is "close enough" -- they will be fine.
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> _______________________________________________
> Evtech mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://mailman.evtech.org/mailman/listinfo/evtech
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Daniel,
I used to have an 83 CX500 myself. Pretty good bike.
This bike is unusual in that the engine axis is longitudinal to the
length of the bike, which works well with the shaft drive.
One other unusual point is that the clutch cover plate is on the _front_
of the engine rather than the side. I think it might be possible to
make an adapter plate and hook the motor up. Down side is that any
motor of any length will interfere with the front tire. Also, the
crankcase and transmission on this bike are unusually large.
In other words, despite the unusual layout, you're better off stripping
out the entire motor/transmission. Having said that, now the problem is
you have a shaft-drive glider. This is fine, you can do that, but it
means you either A) couple the motor shaft directly to the drive shaft,
and use the (very fixed) 3.x ratio, or B) set up a jackshaft on the end
of the drive shaft, and drive it with a standard sprocket and chain,
which will allow you to tweak your gear ratios relatively easily.
Thing is, if you're going to do option "B," it's easier to just get a
glider with a chain and sprocket, and skip the drive shaft, which will
be lower efficiency and higher weight now matter how you couple it.
Short answer: Chain drive is simpler, more efficient, weighs less, and
easier to modify. Downsides: Chain tensioning, chain & sprocket
replacement, and lubrication. I would consider chain noise to be a
non-issue because of it's relative unimportance, and quite frankly, it's
not that loud anyway.
-- Eric
Daniel Eyk wrote:
Thanks for the replies on the conversion project. I could not find Rev
Gadgets site to look at his EMW. From what you have said, I could not
use the transmission on this bike, is that correct? I don't know the
diameter of the rear wheel or what the ratio is as I have not taken
ownership of it as I want to know what I am getting into first.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip Gribbon Wrote:
I 'm looking for a 36-volt charger/BMS for a set of A123 batteries.
Ideally I would need something for 2 36-volt strands.
Chip... Check these Battery PODS out. I have TWO of these 36V LiIon Bikes.
( one was going to be for my wife, but she doesn't like the size of the
Frame... hence, I have one for sale. Brand NEW Half Price...
(Tres Terra)
http://www.tresterra.com/callisto.html
I am a AVID bicyclist. Done multiiple 100 mile rides, back to back. My
bike buddies are all 10 years my Jr. but NOW with the 400 watt
Heintzman Hub motor, I can actually PASS them up on a long hill...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Phil is perfectly right. A member of our group has a clutchless conversion and
it takes him a couple seconds to shift.
On my conversion I'll have a clutch cause I can just imagine myself at a light
and this little tricked out honda is next to me, the light changes and I take
off, up shift, look in my rear view mirror and he is just starting off the line
at the light.... yeah right... 4800 lb S10 conversion...<G>.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
>
> Clutchless conversions don't work well for everyone.
>
> Although I've never done it myself, several people have reported ( on this
> list) that they were not happy with a clutchless car that they had to shift.
> Try shifting your ICE car without using the clutch. It can be done, but
> it's VERY slow, takes a lot of concentration, and likely wears the heck out
> of the synchros.
>
> Granted, there's less rotating inertia with the electric motor than the
> original ICE engine. but the same problem apparetly exists.
>
> Unless you're racing, the added flywheel/clutch inertia wouldn't make much
> difference. And, if you are racing, you want to be able to shift quickly,
> right?
>
> Phil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark brings up some good points. I think the answer, though, is "it depends."
Here are my experiences:
For rain, LSD has never been needed, even with the very steep hills we have
here. For snow, it depends.
My 2 FWD cars did great in rain and snow with an open diff.
My 4WD truck in 2WD was hopeless on the slightest uphill slope with the open
diff -- one wheel would spin. It was fine in rain in 2WD.
My 2WD Camaro with LSD is actually alot better than the truck was in 2WD. You
are right, though, the rear suddenly breaks both wheels loose. You learn to
accelerate gently and watch for break away. For racing, though, it really
launches hard out of turns.
My 2WD Fiero (motor in the rear) had an open diff. It never even hinted at
getting stuck. However, one wheel would spin, and the wheel with traction would
start to spin the car (sliding the front wheels sideways!). The car was truly a
handful to keep pointed straight when accelerating, even gently, in snow. It
would have been more stable with LSD.
For the Yaris, I don't see breaking both front wheels loose at the same time as
being as much a problem as with a RWD, but does present more handling risk.
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:53:31 AM
Subject: RE: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
Just my opinion (based on rear wheel drive LSD)
I think that for standard urban driving in slippery conditions, std diff
is far safer than LSD.
Consider a loss of traction event - accelerating too hard on a slippery
surface (eg first couple of minutes of rain after a dry spell)
A RWD car with standard diff will only spin one wheel. The other will
keep the car pointed in approximately the right direction.
A RWD car with LSD will spin both rear wheels, giving it all the
directional stability of an unpiloted supermarket trolley. Since we know
that slippery stuff on roads is notoriously uneven, the wheels lose
traction at slightly different times, resulting in a net sideways force.
(This keeps getting better doesn't it?)
Combine this with the common situation of stopping and turning at an
intersection (acceleration plus change of direction within a limited
timeframe) and it becomes a recipe for disaster :-)
There are some situations where LSDs are very useful such as racing and
off-road driving, but normal urban driving is not one of them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Awesome, so it "may" be possible then to work with a Zilla and an ADC 9"
> along with a high voltage pack (144V+ or 240V+) to stay in 3rd gear and
> still get a considerable 70 mph top speed?
>
> I'm wondering if anyone on this list knows anyone else is driving with an
> EV stuck in 3rd gear and getting considerable performance?
Sure lot's of folks. Otmar (the guy that builds the 'zillas) has a
multispeed tranny in his 914, but IIRC leaves it in 3rd or 4th most of the
time.
Most of the guys that drag race use a single reduction ratio, of course
they are usually geared for a top speed between 100 and 150+ mph.
Then again, they don't normally have to contend with hills. They do have
tons of torque, it takes a lot to reach 1/4 mile in less than 15 seconds,
less than 10 seconds for some of them. But they are only having to
produce this torque for 10-15 seconds. Climbing a hill can require these
high current levels for several minutes and THAT might cause problems.
You might consider using a two speed tranny, perhaps something like a
divorced transfer case from a 4wd vehicle, maybe an old Suzuki or
something. Then you could have one gear you leave it in for normal
driving and one for hills, etc.
Alternatively, if most of your driving is urban (<35mph), one gear for
that (and hills), and one for highways.
Again, if you are planning on using a series wound motor (ADC 9") and NOT
having a mechanical reverse, then you will need to set up someway to
reverse the direction on the motor. Normally this means reversing the
current flow through either the field or the armature, but NOT both.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, I think what JJ is referring to is thermal runaway when not charged
properly. As for the correct tools, can you please give me a bit more
detailed information on what you mean?
thanks
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: October 18, 2006 8:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
JJ,
All batterys are dangerous. The question is do you have the tools to play
safely with them?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Thanks for your input, could you give me more specifics on your
project? I
> am trying something similar with an EV and getting only
discouragement as
> too dangerous. What is a good time to call you? thanks JJ
>
> > I have 76 modules and several restraints for charging and
discharging,(
> > You need them for both), and two BMS computers for 38 modules. The
> > voltage of 38 modules can run pretty high. Well in excess of 300
volts,
> > so I found the computers not of much use for a motorcycle pack.
If the
> > ambient temps are reasonable, you can charge them easily to and
> > above
> > 8.4 volts per module. When left to sit idle they will start to
decrease
> > in voltage and in about a month or six weeks, will be down to
about 7.8
> > volts and will finally even out at 7.63 volts. I bought these two
packs
> > for $1200 at a wreckers where they had been for 1 1/2 and 2 years.
Every
> > battery in both packs was exactly 7.63 volts. The nominal
voltage for
> > these modules is 7.2 volts. They only put out about 200 amps. In
a car
> > you can easily make up three packs of 192 volts and put the packs in
> > parallel for 600 amps. If you need more power you will have to
use more
> > batteries. These batteries weigh 2.53 lbs each, so 75 batteries in
> > three packs with the restraints on them would weigh about 225 pounds.
> > I tried two 192 volt packs in my motorcycle once and found the
amps not
> > enough for dragging and also started having back pains which kept
me out
> > of my shop. I then stopped and pondered a moment and decided that
with
> > my 86th birthday coming up rapidly, I had better give up drag racing.
> > All the batteries and the allied equipment including a thermometer
with
> > probe, I will sell for $1000 plus shipping.
> > Any body interested can contact me @ [EMAIL PROTECTED],net or 208 772
> > 6159 or 1284 Linwood Drive Hayden, ID 83835.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cor van de
> > Water
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:19 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> >
> > When you're lucky and you find them, around $500 which gives you 38
> > modules.
> >
> > NOTE: in operatoin the modules need to be contained as when you are
> > using them without mechanical support you will swell and blow them
> > easily, this was witnessed by other members on this list.
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dmitri
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:51 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> >
> >
> > That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for.
> > Anybody
> > know?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
> > Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> >
> >
> >> Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius
cars.
> >> Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
> >> http://www.electric7.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> >>
> >> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> >>
> >>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
so send the Bat+ through twice, and the Bat- one time?
Is this based on using a 400amp?
--- Rick Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The proper way to wire a three phase breaker for up
> to 500VDC application is
> the following
> Now this doesn't go for all breakers but most of
> them are this way.
> ________
> | |
> | |
> | +Bat | -Bat
> | | | |
> | )----)----)
> | | | |
> | | | |
> |___| |LOAD|
>
> -Rick
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:31 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker poping
>
> ah, can you explain wiring in series?
>
> do mean just use one "leg" of the 3-gang breaker?
>
> --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Michael I use a 3 phase AC breaker, purchased from
> a demolition
> > outfit. I have been told by electrical engineers
> that the DC rating
> > of an AC breaker is 1/3 the AC rating, so just get
> a 400A 3 phase
> > ganged breaker and run your cable series through
> the breaker. In my
> > case, I have my 3 phase breaker split the pack
> into lower voltage
> > subpacks - but I have a 312V pack.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > see the New Beetle EV project
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of mike golub
> > Sent: October 17, 2006 6:25 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: 250 amp breaker poping
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I have this 86 toyota PU running with a 9"warp, a
> > logisystem controller 1209
> > at 550amp/120v, and 20 6volt sam's club batteries.
> >
> > Only using a 250 amp breaker, but it seems to pop
> to
> > frequently. Even though
> > my emeter says I'm at 150 it can pop.
> >
> > Perhaps I should upgrade with 4 more batteries,
> > becuase I have a 144volt
> > controller.
> >
> > But is there a cheap place to get a 400amp
> breaker?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Michael Golub
> > Fairbanks
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Adan,
I live in Seattle, and probably have the same type of hill issues you
man encounter down there. I have an 8" ADC, and 120v system, with a
Curtis controller (This is not what you are thinking about, but stick
with me).
Having driven around here for about 6 months, both in low speed hill
areas, and high speed I-5, I'm not sure if trying to make a one gear
EV with any kind of performance is practical, especially if you want
some range as well as a top speed of 70.
If it is possible it will probably cost way more than you are willing
to spend. With my setup (in a 1974 Celica), you could probably get
away with only using 2nd and 3rd gear. If you wanted to keep your
speed under 50mph, 2nd would be no problem, except for really steep
hills, in which case you really want the option of 1st.
I have been thinking a lot about my next EV, and want to go the direct
drive route. I am thinking about going AC, and limiting myself to a
top speed of 50mph (because it will only be driven up in the San Juan
Islands). I'm sure this would also be feasible on DC, but I also want
regen due to the large amount of hills in the area.
On 10/18/06, Adan Vielma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm wondering if anyone on this list knows anyone else is driving with an EV
stuck in 3rd gear and getting considerable performance?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The source may be Cat but Electrolux's Husqvarna Garden Tool branch in
Agusta GA. is the end of the line. Cordless tools. Big ones. Garden
tractors. That's where the batteries will be used. Garden tools. I don't
know for what tool but I'd be nice if someone working there could test the
waters for batteries. Lawrence Rhodes....
Re: Firefly & Electrolux
Posted by: "Noel Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED] anbausa
Date: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:10 pm (PDT)
I think that the source of the batteries is Caterpillar not Electrolux,
Electrolux is going to be their first customer. You can check out my
interview with Mil Ovan of Firefly on the Electrifying Times web site
http://electrifyingtimes.com/firefly_energy.html
I too am very excited about Firefly. They are currently talking to
some Auto makers about using their batteries in a PHEV.
Noel
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good to hear that you have everything. The Prius modules will expand
significantly when charged even if they are stone cold! so you have to
operate the charging and discharging with the modules installed
correctly into the sheetmetal housings. The pressure exerted on the
houseing is also quite significant. So make sure it's reassembled
correctly.
What are your series/parallel configuration plans?
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I took them out to study the structure, have all the parts and can
> reassemble them back if I need to.
> JJ
>
> > So are the Prius modules still in their metal enclosures?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], <ev@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Subject: Prius battery pack
> >> From: <josjam@>
> >> Date: Tue, October 17, 2006 8:49 pm
> >> To: <ev@>
> >>
> >> Hi Folks,
> >>
> >> Anybody out there who is building an EV using a bunch of used Prius
> >> batteries? I would like to hear their experiences, thanks
> >> JJ
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe he was.
Since it's not productive to run two threads I'm going to work with JJ
in the other nimh thread that he started today. Please join us there.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike, I think what JJ is referring to is thermal runaway when not
charged
> properly. As for the correct tools, can you please give me a bit more
> detailed information on what you mean?
>
> thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mike Phillips
> Sent: October 18, 2006 8:02 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
>
> JJ,
>
> All batterys are dangerous. The question is do you have the tools to
play
> safely with them?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], <ev@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > Thanks for your input, could you give me more specifics on your
> project? I
> > am trying something similar with an EV and getting only
> discouragement as
> > too dangerous. What is a good time to call you? thanks JJ
> >
> > > I have 76 modules and several restraints for charging and
> discharging,(
> > > You need them for both), and two BMS computers for 38 modules. The
> > > voltage of 38 modules can run pretty high. Well in excess of 300
> volts,
> > > so I found the computers not of much use for a motorcycle pack.
> If the
> > > ambient temps are reasonable, you can charge them easily to and
> > > above
> > > 8.4 volts per module. When left to sit idle they will start to
> decrease
> > > in voltage and in about a month or six weeks, will be down to
> about 7.8
> > > volts and will finally even out at 7.63 volts. I bought these two
> packs
> > > for $1200 at a wreckers where they had been for 1 1/2 and 2 years.
> Every
> > > battery in both packs was exactly 7.63 volts. The nominal
> voltage for
> > > these modules is 7.2 volts. They only put out about 200 amps. In
> a car
> > > you can easily make up three packs of 192 volts and put the
packs in
> > > parallel for 600 amps. If you need more power you will have to
> use more
> > > batteries. These batteries weigh 2.53 lbs each, so 75 batteries in
> > > three packs with the restraints on them would weigh about 225
pounds.
> > > I tried two 192 volt packs in my motorcycle once and found the
> amps not
> > > enough for dragging and also started having back pains which kept
> me out
> > > of my shop. I then stopped and pondered a moment and decided that
> with
> > > my 86th birthday coming up rapidly, I had better give up drag
racing.
> > > All the batteries and the allied equipment including a thermometer
> with
> > > probe, I will sell for $1000 plus shipping.
> > > Any body interested can contact me @ [EMAIL PROTECTED],net or 208 772
> > > 6159 or 1284 Linwood Drive Hayden, ID 83835.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cor van de
> > > Water
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:19 PM
> > > To: ev@
> > > Subject: RE: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> > >
> > > When you're lucky and you find them, around $500 which gives you 38
> > > modules.
> > >
> > > NOTE: in operatoin the modules need to be contained as when you are
> > > using them without mechanical support you will swell and blow them
> > > easily, this was witnessed by other members on this list.
> > >
> > > Cor van de Water
> > > Systems Architect
> > > Email: CWater@ Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: cor_van_de_water@
> > > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-ev@ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dmitri
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 2:51 PM
> > > To: ev@
> > > Subject: Re: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> > >
> > >
> > > That is very cool. I wonder how much you can get Prius packs for.
> > > Anybody
> > > know?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Don Cameron" <ev@>
> > > To: <ev@>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:06 PM
> > > Subject: NiMH Battery Pack from Prius Batteries
> > >
> > >
> > >> Someone was asking about NiMh packs for an EV from wrecked Prius
> cars.
> > >> Here is a web site of a person who is doing this:
> > >> http://www.electric7.com/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> > >>
> > >> see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark wrote:
When the car was cold did it give adequate heat- remember it's a little
warmer here, except in the summer!
It really isn't very noticeable ( My other two ICE Echos also have this same
aux 12V heater element). It does seem that the heater air isn't as cold as
it would be otherwise for the first couple of minutes, but I wouldn't want
to rely on it for heat or defrosting.
One of the reasons it's difficult to tell is that the ICE engine does heat
up very quickly because it's so small.
In my conversion I put in a pack voltage PTC element from KTA, and,
depending on the heater fan speed, it draws about 1250 watts max. ( It's not
on the road yet, but I've tested the heater in the car with an external 105V
DC source).
And, even that is not an impressive amount of heat compared to original
heating in an ICE car. I would guess that the 1250 watt heater is about 1/4
( or less) of the original heater's max output. So, 500 watts would be at
most 10% of the original heater's power. Not much.
Phil
Mark- SF
On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:26 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
My 2001 Echo had a PTC aux heater (probably the same as the Yaris- it's
really the same car with some sheet metal changes).
It was fed through a dedicated 50 amp fuse, and controlled by a 40 amp
relay. So, it most likely draws less than 40 amps max. (13.5 V * 40 amps
= 540 watts). So, it's not a lot of heat, but can help defrost the
windshield as you're starting out.
According to the wiring manual, it comes on when ALL of the following are
true:
1. The engine coolant temp is below a certain temp.
2. The engine RPM is above a minimum RPM - and has been for 5 seconds or
more, continuously. (This is to make sure you the alternator can keep up
with the current draw)
3. The heat control is on max.
4. The heater blower is on.
As far as other cars having this feature - maybe they do and it's a
well-kept secret. My 2000 Echo has this also, so it's not new.
Until I took the Echo apart, I had no idea that it had this extra heating
element. I've never seen it in any ad or description of the car. And, it
never occured to me when driving the car ( before its conversion) that it
had this. At the time, I just though it heat up quickly because it has
such a small engine.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip
http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Im retaining the clutch for inexperienced drivers and I will be using
various gears in the city for very steep hill parking, using reverse
as I don't want reversing contactors.
Mark
On Oct 18, 2006, at 9:24 AM, Rush wrote:
Phil is perfectly right. A member of our group has a clutchless
conversion and it takes him a couple seconds to shift.
On my conversion I'll have a clutch cause I can just imagine myself
at a light and this little tricked out honda is next to me, the
light changes and I take off, up shift, look in my rear view mirror
and he is just starting off the line at the light.... yeah
right... 4800 lb S10 conversion...<G>.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
Clutchless conversions don't work well for everyone.
Although I've never done it myself, several people have reported
( on this
list) that they were not happy with a clutchless car that they had
to shift.
Try shifting your ICE car without using the clutch. It can be
done, but
it's VERY slow, takes a lot of concentration, and likely wears the
heck out
of the synchros.
Granted, there's less rotating inertia with the electric motor
than the
original ICE engine. but the same problem apparetly exists.
Unless you're racing, the added flywheel/clutch inertia wouldn't
make much
difference. And, if you are racing, you want to be able to shift
quickly,
right?
Phil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> If I have a mechanical odometer, how do I get the 'distance
> traveled' as a data form? Do I have to get a digital mileage
> reader?. Then it would be just a matter of getting the
> consumption rate data from the meter into a chip/program that
> would do the math and display it on a readout of some sort.
>
> I know that it is a *little* more complicated than that, but
> that is basically the process, correct?
Yes. Of course, you don't need a "digital mileage reader"; I suspect
you could use the magnet and sensor from a bike speedo/odometer on the
driveshaft or axle to give you a pulse train with frequency proportional
to vehicle speed. You could feed this into a micro and have it compute
the speed, or assuming you are using a micro with an analog to digital
convertor to read battery voltage and current anyway, you might instead
send the pulse train through a frequency-to-voltage convertor IC and
have the micro sample that voltage (proprtional to speed) on one of its
unused ADC channels. The latter approach makes the SW simpler at the
expense of a bit more HW cost; you'd probably not go this route if
planning mass production, but I suspect the $2-3 extra HW cost would
easily pay for itself in reduced SW dev effort for a on-off device.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Because that algorithm was not.
I mean, say I made up a meter where battery power used is Pc = (I^Pe *
T ) ^ (I^Pe * T ) - 2*I^Pe * T
You may ask, WTF is that? Well, I don't know either but it's got the
Peukert's equation in it so should we call it "Peukert's compensation"?
Since it does not implement the meaning of Peukert's equation, then no,
it's not Peukert's. Maybe the equation has merit and maybe not, but as
a matter of nomenclature it is not Peukert's.
Danny
Paul G. wrote:
Would you care to explain to me why that is not Peukert's formula in
action? Pc = I^Pe * T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Point taken- Thanks,
On Oct 18, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
Mark wrote:
When the car was cold did it give adequate heat- remember it's a
little warmer here, except in the summer!
It really isn't very noticeable ( My other two ICE Echos also have
this same aux 12V heater element). It does seem that the heater air
isn't as cold as it would be otherwise for the first couple of
minutes, but I wouldn't want to rely on it for heat or defrosting.
One of the reasons it's difficult to tell is that the ICE engine
does heat up very quickly because it's so small.
In my conversion I put in a pack voltage PTC element from KTA, and,
depending on the heater fan speed, it draws about 1250 watts max.
( It's not on the road yet, but I've tested the heater in the car
with an external 105V DC source).
And, even that is not an impressive amount of heat compared to
original heating in an ICE car. I would guess that the 1250 watt
heater is about 1/4 ( or less) of the original heater's max
output. So, 500 watts would be at most 10% of the original
heater's power. Not much.
Phil
Mark- SF
On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:26 AM, Phil Marino wrote:
My 2001 Echo had a PTC aux heater (probably the same as the
Yaris- it's really the same car with some sheet metal changes).
It was fed through a dedicated 50 amp fuse, and controlled by a
40 amp relay. So, it most likely draws less than 40 amps max.
(13.5 V * 40 amps = 540 watts). So, it's not a lot of heat, but
can help defrost the windshield as you're starting out.
According to the wiring manual, it comes on when ALL of the
following are true:
1. The engine coolant temp is below a certain temp.
2. The engine RPM is above a minimum RPM - and has been for 5
seconds or more, continuously. (This is to make sure you the
alternator can keep up with the current draw)
3. The heat control is on max.
4. The heater blower is on.
As far as other cars having this feature - maybe they do and it's
a well-kept secret. My 2000 Echo has this also, so it's not new.
Until I took the Echo apart, I had no idea that it had this
extra heating element. I've never seen it in any ad or
description of the car. And, it never occured to me when
driving the car ( before its conversion) that it had this. At
the time, I just though it heat up quickly because it has such a
small engine.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/
hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Distance remaining meter - was lee's emeter companion
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:06:41 -0700
Rush wrote:
> If I have a mechanical odometer, how do I get the 'distance
> traveled' as a data form? Do I have to get a digital mileage
> reader?. Then it would be just a matter of getting the
> consumption rate data from the meter into a chip/program that
> would do the math and display it on a readout of some sort.
>
> I know that it is a *little* more complicated than that, but
> that is basically the process, correct?
Yes. Of course, you don't need a "digital mileage reader"; I suspect
you could use the magnet and sensor from a bike speedo/odometer on the
driveshaft or axle to give you a pulse train with frequency proportional
to vehicle speed. You could feed this into a micro and have it compute
the speed, or assuming you are using a micro with an analog to digital
convertor to read battery voltage and current anyway, you might instead
send the pulse train through a frequency-to-voltage convertor IC and
have the micro sample that voltage (proprtional to speed) on one of its
unused ADC channels. The latter approach makes the SW simpler at the
expense of a bit more HW cost; you'd probably not go this route if
planning mass production, but I suspect the $2-3 extra HW cost would
easily pay for itself in reduced SW dev effort for a on-off device.
Cheers,
Roger.
If you're just looking for distance travelled (and using a sensor like a
bicycle speedometer or Melaxis hall-effect sensor that generates a pulse
train proporional to speed) , you don't have to generate a speed signal, and
then integrate it into distance.
Just count the pulses, and you have the distance travelled directly.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and moreĀ
then map the best
route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've used a Zivan K2 (isolated) with a K&W BC-20 (non-isolated),
and I believe also with a variac / bridge rectifier setup (that
would also be non-isolated). As long as I started the Zivan
first, then the K&W or variac, then things would proceed ok. If
I did the reverse, then usually the Zivan would usually dump at
startup, and I'd just be left with the non-iso charger going.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 11:52 AM
Subject: multiple chargers
> Who uses a Zivan with a bad boy?.
>
> Does anyone use a Zivan, badboy, and a Lester?
>
> I know the batteries, the lester and the badboy can handle it,
but my
> biggest concern is, can the Zivan handle such a situation. I
don't know
> electrical theorgy, and all electrical practice comes from....
Practice.
>
> (just something to know for the rare occurence I would want to
dump 30 amps
> in for 1-2 hours (zivan 13 ,bad boy 7, & lester 10)
>
> Thanks for any knowledge.
>
> Ben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks. I didn't see that when I searched the I-net. The only references
to a pre-heater was for the diesel engines.
> Thanks cor- even has electric power steering...
>
> I can't find the heater specs in the manual so not sure if it will
> work but would be any easy install.
> On Oct 17, 2006, at 9:17 PM, Cor van de Water wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> Mark was talking about a ceramic heater that can heat
>> the cabin AFTER the engine started, but is not yet up
>> to temp, so there is no hot water, as the thermostat
>> keeps the water from flowing into the heater core and
>> radiator, first the engine needs to be up to temp.
>> This is great if you pull the engine out and can
>> likely be sufficient for the mild SF winter.
>> THat is actually pretty neat!
>> Finding a gas car that is prepared in this detail to
>> have its engine taken out. Toyota must have thought
>> about these conversions ;-)
>>
>> Cor van de Water
--- End Message ---
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C6F2EF.01892D7A"
Subject: Hi, starting my first EV project
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:52:56 -0500
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: Hi, starting my first EV project
Thread-Index: Acby7wEUmQoajWwKQvS3TTNdZe3Psg==
From: "Obrien, Haskell W.--
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