EV Digest 6039
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: What's the most efficent way to connect my ADC 9" motor to a
car?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by MARK DUTKO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What's the most efficent way to connect my ADC 9" motor to a
car?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: E-volks now offering a series motor ??
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: CX 500 Conversion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: E-volks now offering a series motor ??
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: New Battery Technology Achieves 100 Miles with Hybrid Electri
c Vehicles
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: E-volks now offering a series motor ??
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: E-volks now offering a series motor ??
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Battery spam mail
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Prius battery pack (OEM cooling)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery spam mail
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Fuel gauge Peukert correction, was: lee's emeter companion?
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: lee's emeter companion?
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) CX 500 Conversion
by Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: 250 amp breaker poping
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: 250 amp breaker poping
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) grider caution
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
by Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Fuel gauge Peukert correction, was: lee's emeter companion?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Wacky 2 speed idea
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: 250 amp breaker popping
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
One side effect of the light flywheel (mine is 6lbs for clutch and
flywheel) is that if you miss a shift or hit the throttle when not in
gear, your com is blown. (see ouch pics on husteds site)
The zilla has an rpm limiter but allow a bigger margin; for how fast rpm
can change in this setup.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think a zilla 1K with series parallel shifting and 2 - 9" motors would
eliminate the need for the transmission.
The math works out for me that series would be like 2nd and parallel
would be like 4th, but twice as much torque as z1k with 1 9" in 4th.
There are a few ways to run dual motors. This is partially because I
have a 288V pack and the voltage limit to the motor is limited to 170V.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks- Good info...
On Oct 18, 2006, at 8:29 PM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
One side effect of the light flywheel (mine is 6lbs for clutch and
flywheel) is that if you miss a shift or hit the throttle when not in
gear, your com is blown. (see ouch pics on husteds site)
The zilla has an rpm limiter but allow a bigger margin; for how
fast rpm
can change in this setup.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I had about 15 batteries and I think a little less advance on the
motor, starting in third was ok, but not great and 2nd gear was awsome.
Now with 24 batteries third feels like lugging and 2nd is good but not
great. (1st is not useable, to low.)
The car is now 4050 lbs, the last 400-500 lbs really made a difference.
But I think I can improve it a little with timing.
One other observation. Driving an EV in 2nd and 3rd only with no exhaust
noise while all the ICE people are going thru 4 gears with lots of
monkey motion is more of a difference than you might think. I don't
think I am accelerating that fast, but some ICE drivers have commented
when we get up to the next light and the read my license plate and frame
("GASNOMR" and "you have just been passed by an electric car")
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I wonder if this is e-volks
$2000 for a D&D motor - adapter kit for VW on E-bay
http://tinyurl.com/yzgvo6
need batteries , VW glider , etc.
Is this a good price for a starter EV ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am converting a 3.4 to one Honda Shadow. I am using a 120v controller
and a Yale motor from Jim Husted. I crossing my fingers that a few of his
tricks can get some low end grunt for this cruiser. Keep tuned and when I
get it running I'll share my data. (burnt motor or not) It's a for sure
that with thes ratios you need a lot of voltage and amps. It worked for
John Wayland at 3.57 to one I hope my lower weight will even out the
smaller motor and voltage. Lawrence Rhodes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: Re: CX 500 Conversion
> Daniel,
>
> I used to have an 83 CX500 myself. Pretty good bike.
>
> This bike is unusual in that the engine axis is longitudinal to the
> length of the bike, which works well with the shaft drive.
>
> One other unusual point is that the clutch cover plate is on the _front_
> of the engine rather than the side. I think it might be possible to
> make an adapter plate and hook the motor up. Down side is that any
> motor of any length will interfere with the front tire. Also, the
> crankcase and transmission on this bike are unusually large.
>
> In other words, despite the unusual layout, you're better off stripping
> out the entire motor/transmission. Having said that, now the problem is
> you have a shaft-drive glider. This is fine, you can do that, but it
> means you either A) couple the motor shaft directly to the drive shaft,
> and use the (very fixed) 3.x ratio, or B) set up a jackshaft on the end
> of the drive shaft, and drive it with a standard sprocket and chain,
> which will allow you to tweak your gear ratios relatively easily.
>
> Thing is, if you're going to do option "B," it's easier to just get a
> glider with a chain and sprocket, and skip the drive shaft, which will
> be lower efficiency and higher weight now matter how you couple it.
>
> Short answer: Chain drive is simpler, more efficient, weighs less, and
> easier to modify. Downsides: Chain tensioning, chain & sprocket
> replacement, and lubrication. I would consider chain noise to be a
> non-issue because of it's relative unimportance, and quite frankly, it's
> not that loud anyway.
>
> -- Eric
>
> Daniel Eyk wrote:
> > Thanks for the replies on the conversion project. I could not find Rev
> > Gadgets site to look at his EMW. From what you have said, I could not
> > use the transmission on this bike, is that correct? I don't know the
> > diameter of the rear wheel or what the ratio is as I have not taken
> > ownership of it as I want to know what I am getting into first.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting!
I have seen people put AGMs on their short end, to get a
high/narrow pack, as close as possible to the rear axle
in the trunk of a car.
This also has the effect of laying the glass mats horizontal.
That could have a benificial effect on the stratification.
So, you are saying that occasional gas production by
controlled overcharge is good for AGMs, as it tends to
mix up the electrolyte a bit more?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 5:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
>
>
>Even AGM is not to have noticeable mixing of electrolyte
>as it is fully in adhesion to the glass mat.
This is not at all true. It is quite well documented that
the electrolyte in AGMs stratifies. The acid tends to sink to the
bottom and the water rises to the top. Diffusion and capillary action
push towards mixing, while gravity pushes towards segregation. A
balance is reached.
"Flipping" an AGM at some point during its life will increase cycle
life just a bit by swapping the end (side) with the strongest electrolyte.
Spiral cell AGMs get slightly better cycle life on their sides.
This is not a huge effect, but when you tear apart a used
AGM, you can see the result.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While it could be a private party, the seller is located in Utah (as is
e-volks), and ad text is taken verbatim from the e-volks web site.
----- Original Message ----
From: jmygann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:43:15 PM
Subject: Re: E-volks now offering a series motor ??
So I wonder if this is e-volks
$2000 for a D&D motor - adapter kit for VW on E-bay
http://tinyurl.com/yzgvo6
need batteries , VW glider , etc.
Is this a good price for a starter EV ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure why it would need to be 34 mph as the ICE should
not come until 42 mph according to the info I can find,
though there seems to be a difference in operation
between below 34 mph and between 34 and 42 mph, but I
cannot find a clarification of that difference.
(Note - this is for the 2004+ Prius, the 2001-2003 does
not have the special "EV" mode, but this probably will
be moot as there is also not yet a plug-in variant of
the installation either.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 3:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New Battery Technology Achieves 100 Miles with Hybrid
Electric Vehicles
You are right Rich that I would get very bored driving 34 mph for three
hours. It would drive me insane :-) It is much better if you do your own
field testing. You may even be closer to that state of mind than I. ;-) Keep
up the great work on PHEV!
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: New Battery Technology Achieves 100 Miles with Hybrid Electric
Vehicles
> Yea you tell 'Em Rod!
>
> You want to see 100 mile range in a PHEV?
> OK I am talking about 100 miles without the Gas engine firing up. Single
> charge cycle, No tricks, just drive until the Valence cry unkle.
>
> Well Rod.. come down and drive one of the PHEVs that I am working on.
> We have Valence, we have running PHEV kits...
> Clearly one will get stuffed into the another, and then we will go for a
> Ride.
>
> This is a Good thing Rod, Fellow Suck amps team Guy... simply, I charge
> the
> Phev, Then you get to discharge it... for many hours of 34 mile per hour
> driving.
> This gets you out of my shop and out of the way, for many miles....Just
> what we need, you doing something usefull... out of my shop...
>
> And the batteries are off the shelf now. This is not earth shattering
> stuff.
>
> And to give you all a fair shake... 100 Miles per charge may NOT happen..
> but the trick is to see how close we can get.
>
> I dunno, Rod, just has not ever been able to drive a EV without using full
> throttle... I just don't think you are capable of driving without tire
> smoke
> and broken parts.
>
> But... come by watch and see for yourself.
>
> lets show the Blue smoke and mirrors Guys what we can do!
>
> Madman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 10:35 PM
> Subject: Re: New Battery Technology Achieves 100 Miles with Hybrid
> Electric
> Vehicles
>
>
> What kind of con man writes this crap?
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/476 - Release Date: 10/14/2006
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.4/476 - Release Date: 10/14/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 15, 2006, at 10:49 PM, Adan Vielma wrote:
Seems to be that even the Curtis doesn't even get "slightly" close to
the Zilla?
There are many EVs that use Curtis controllers. They are certainly a
valid choice.
There are lots of reasons to prefer the Zilla. Much better
performance, more robust design, dual-motor capability, wider range of
pack voltages, advanced safety features, serial interface, better
support, &etc. For a relatively small price increase over a Curtis you
get a huge jump in features, making it a better value.
OTOH, the Zilla *is* more expensive and might not fit into your budget.
Zillas are water-cooled and therefore somewhat more complicated to
install. Perhaps more importantly, at the moment there's a huge demand
for Zillas and you might have to wait a long time to get one. Check
with your supplier (or the factory) to find out the current lead time.
Used Zillas are very hard to find too.
-Adan
Lewis & Clark College
I might be wrong, but based on the questions you've been asking I'd
guess you haven't read the two bibles of EV conversions, Convert It! by
Mike Brown and Shari Prange, and Build Your Own Electric Vehicle, by
Bob Brant. Multnomah County Library has the latter. Amazon.com has
them both, as do most of the EV parts suppliers.
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So I wonder if this is e-volks
>
> $2000 for a D&D motor - adapter kit for VW on E-bay
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yzgvo6
>
> need batteries , VW glider , etc.
>
> Is this a good price for a starter EV ?
>
Don't think these are the same people, just a few items for sale but
high quality stuff - these items are worth more than they are asking,
based on the retail prices at EVParts.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> While it could be a private party, the seller is located in Utah (as
is e-volks), and ad text is taken verbatim from the e-volks web site.
>
>
Yeah, same pictures, too - did they get a bad rep and decide to change
their marketing tactics, or is this some kind of "spin off"?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> I have seen people put AGMs on their short end, to get a
> high/narrow pack, as close as possible to the rear axle
> in the trunk of a car.
> This also has the effect of laying the glass mats horizontal.
> That could have a benificial effect on the stratification.
It does. I was informed of this trick by an engineer with a
manufacturer of flat plate AGMs. Apparently it results in a slight
increase in capacity.
My YTs are installed on their sides in my car, with every other one
flipped so that if I get the urge I can 'rotate' them once every 6 or
12-months or ??? to keep the electrolyte more evenly distributed in the
matt.
> So, you are saying that occasional gas production by
> controlled overcharge is good for AGMs, as it tends to
> mix up the electrolyte a bit more?
I don't see any way that gassing in an AGM is going to mix the
electrolyte.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In researching AGM batteries the last two years. I came across several
different sources that if you put an AGM battery on their side you will lose
10%.
This was from the battery manufacturers.
Don
In a message dated 10/18/2006 11:30:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Interesting!
I have seen people put AGMs on their short end, to get a
high/narrow pack, as close as possible to the rear axle
in the trunk of a car.
This also has the effect of laying the glass mats horizontal.
That could have a benificial effect on the stratification.
So, you are saying that occasional gas production by
controlled overcharge is good for AGMs, as it tends to
mix up the electrolyte a bit more?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 5:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
>
>
>Even AGM is not to have noticeable mixing of electrolyte
>as it is fully in adhesion to the glass mat.
This is not at all true. It is quite well documented that
the electrolyte in AGMs stratifies. The acid tends to sink to the
bottom and the water rises to the top. Diffusion and capillary action
push towards mixing, while gravity pushes towards segregation. A
balance is reached.
"Flipping" an AGM at some point during its life will increase cycle
life just a bit by swapping the end (side) with the strongest electrolyte.
Spiral cell AGMs get slightly better cycle life on their sides.
This is not a huge effect, but when you tear apart a used
AGM, you can see the result.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All
I got a spam E-mail today, and wondered if they were harvesting addresses
from the EVDL. Anyone else got one of these?
=====================================
X-Spam-Status: No, score=9.095 tagged_above=-50 required=10
tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BOUND_MANY_HEX=2.7,
MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID=1.393, RCVD_IN_DSBL=2.6, RCVD_IN_NJABL_PROXY=0.721,
RCVD_IN_SORBS_DUL=2.046, RCVD_IN_WHOIS_INVALID=2.234]
X-Greylist: delayed 19:22:27 by SQLgrey-1.6.7
From: Mr.Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Batteries
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:41:25 +0800
Dear Manager,
Fortunately,we got some information about your comapny through internet.We
are specialted in designing, manufacturing and marketing
1.)Nickel-Cadmium battery
2.)Nickle-Metal Hydrogen battery
3.)Lthium-ion battery
4.)Lithium polymer battery
5.)Chargers
Or:
A.)Digital Camera Battery B.)Camcorder battery
C.)Laptop Battery D.)PDA & MP3 Player Battery
E.)Mobile phone battery F.)Cordless-Phone battery G.)Chargers
If possible,also,we can make the batteries to meet the relative products
for you.
If you have interest,please don't hesitate to send email to me directly
and promptly,then I offer more details to you.
Best regards
Young
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ICQ: 385220338
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is this project... http://www.electric7.com/
I have some experience with the Prius packs, one thing to note
is the thermal management Toyota uses. The modules (6 cells)
are stacked in such a manner as to create a small air gap between
each module. Then there are sealed areas both above and below
the pack created by the metal case and some foam rubber stripping.
The cooling fan then creates a high pressure area in the sealed
region above the pack which forces an equal amount of air down
between each module and then out via the passage at the bottom.
It may be difficult to recreate this situation in a custom stack of
modules but not impossible... Just though I would pass that along.
Not even sure that it's required, most of the heating is a result
of high rate charging at around 100 amps, I don't think they make
much heat during discharge at those same levels.
L8r
Ryan
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Anybody out there who is biulding an EV using a bunch of used Prius
> batteries? I would like to hear their experiences, thanks
> JJ
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Oct 2006 at 18:47, James Massey wrote:
> wondered if they were harvesting addresses
> from the EVDL.
Probably. The list is archived in a lot of places, and not all of them protect
the email addresses.
The easy answer is to use a disposable address for the list, such as one of
the ad-supported webmail services. It doesn't stop the spam, but when it
gets too bad, you abandon it and open another account.
A better antispam dodge is to subscribe from two addresses. Use one for
posting only. Set it to NOMAIL, and discard all incoming mail on that
address to get rid of spam. Use the other for receiving mail from the list
(that
one can be your regular address) and NEVER post from that address.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So does anyone have a convincing argument why FID should be used in a meter?
Unless I misunderstood what people said about the e-meter, it's
reporting false capacity, sometimes reporting capacity that isn't there
and is only helping you kill your battery.
Sorry I know that sounds inflammatory, but I'm just trying to be
direct. It clearly seems incorrect, I just don't see any other way of
looking at. The only thing I've heard is that the algorithm won't go
back up as current varies, but if it does so by creating a large +/-
error in capacity, I don't see any point to it.
Is everyone on the same page as to why this algorithm is not producing a
result in line with Peukert capacity?
Danny
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a good idea for an afternoon BEST presentation. Bring in all
the stuff, teach the kids about transformers then have them each wind
one.....
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
GE I-5
Blossvale, NY
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> > You don't need to go to a transformer winding business (I don't want
> > that either), but you might want to design your transformer and let
> > someone else who is in that business manufacture it.
>
> I'd do this if I wanted significant quantities. But at present, I'm
building
> maybe a dozen. Enough not to wind them myself, but not enough to interest
> anyone in making a custom part for me.
__________________________________________________________________
http://www.evsource.com - Professional EV components and resources
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sorry, I missed the beginig of this thread, but just a word of caution:
Was the ICE motor not a structural part of the frame on those old CX 500's?
I'm just going from memory, but it would be worth double checking.
Regards
Geoff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get a spam free email account - Visit http://www.bluebottle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Even with a clutch, shifting an EV is actually a pain. There is no
compression to pull the rpms down for the shift. If I had something on
the tail shaft like an alternator or a generator head for regen, I would
engauge it with a switch on the clutch pedal just to speed up shifting.
I have a racing clutch that has no springs in the disks, It assumes
compression and a light flywheel which in the ICE world allows the rpms
to drop fast. Unfortunantly I have to count to 3 or 4 each shift or the
driveline rings from the shock. :-( . It is a non slippable clutch and
may not have been the ideal choice, i can't use the clutch to drag down
the rpm for the shift.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How would you wire a 3 phase breaker if wanted to split the pack? I was
thinking of putting a
breaker in the middle so I could use it as a switch. My pack is in two boxes
and I'd like the
switch to live between the boxes. It's been hard to find a switch that's rated
for my pack, but I
have seen some 3-phase breakers that might work (if I knew how to wire them.)
Dave Cover
--- Rick Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The proper way to wire a three phase breaker for up to 500VDC application is
> the following
> Now this doesn't go for all breakers but most of them are this way.
> ________
> | |
> | |
> | +Bat | -Bat
> | | | |
> | )----)----)
> | | | |
> | | | |
> |___| |LOAD|
>
> -Rick
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:31 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker poping
>
> ah, can you explain wiring in series?
>
> do mean just use one "leg" of the 3-gang breaker?
>
> --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Michael I use a 3 phase AC breaker, purchased from a demolition
> > outfit. I have been told by electrical engineers that the DC rating
> > of an AC breaker is 1/3 the AC rating, so just get a 400A 3 phase
> > ganged breaker and run your cable series through the breaker. In my
> > case, I have my 3 phase breaker split the pack into lower voltage
> > subpacks - but I have a 312V pack.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > see the New Beetle EV project
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of mike golub
> > Sent: October 17, 2006 6:25 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: 250 amp breaker poping
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I have this 86 toyota PU running with a 9"warp, a
> > logisystem controller 1209
> > at 550amp/120v, and 20 6volt sam's club batteries.
> >
> > Only using a 250 amp breaker, but it seems to pop to
> > frequently. Even though
> > my emeter says I'm at 150 it can pop.
> >
> > Perhaps I should upgrade with 4 more batteries,
> > becuase I have a 144volt
> > controller.
> >
> > But is there a cheap place to get a 400amp breaker?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Michael Golub
> > Fairbanks
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You would wire them exactly the same as the picture below. Basically
you are looping current through all 3 breakers keeping them in series.
Jody
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Cover
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:32
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker poping
How would you wire a 3 phase breaker if wanted to split the pack? I was
thinking of putting a breaker in the middle so I could use it as a
switch. My pack is in two boxes and I'd like the switch to live between
the boxes. It's been hard to find a switch that's rated for my pack, but
I have seen some 3-phase breakers that might work (if I knew how to wire
them.)
Dave Cover
--- Rick Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The proper way to wire a three phase breaker for up to 500VDC
> application is the following Now this doesn't go for all breakers but
> most of them are this way.
> ________
> | |
> | |
> | +Bat | -Bat
> | | | |
> | )----)----)
> | | | |
> | | | |
> |___| |LOAD|
>
> -Rick
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:31 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker poping
>
> ah, can you explain wiring in series?
>
> do mean just use one "leg" of the 3-gang breaker?
>
> --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Michael I use a 3 phase AC breaker, purchased from a demolition
> > outfit. I have been told by electrical engineers that the DC rating
> > of an AC breaker is 1/3 the AC rating, so just get a 400A 3 phase
> > ganged breaker and run your cable series through the breaker. In my
> > case, I have my 3 phase breaker split the pack into lower voltage
> > subpacks - but I have a 312V pack.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > see the New Beetle EV project
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mike golub
> > Sent: October 17, 2006 6:25 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: 250 amp breaker poping
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > I have this 86 toyota PU running with a 9"warp, a logisystem
> > controller 1209 at 550amp/120v, and 20 6volt sam's club batteries.
> >
> > Only using a 250 amp breaker, but it seems to pop to frequently.
> > Even though my emeter says I'm at 150 it can pop.
> >
> > Perhaps I should upgrade with 4 more batteries, becuase I have a
> > 144volt controller.
> >
> > But is there a cheap place to get a 400amp breaker?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Michael Golub
> > Fairbanks
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker poping
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:43:28 -0400
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Thread-Topic: 250 amp breaker poping
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From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:25:35 +0100
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: grider caution
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http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=542&parent=506
Well, it's not happened to me yet, but be careful making those adaptor plates :)
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 05:50:37 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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What exactly do you mean by limit slip? (disclaimer, the following
comments have a racer slant)
Often Limited slip refers to the cheap spring loaded pressure plates
inside a differential to prevent one unloaded wheel from spinning.
This type robs power on curves and causes push (aka understeer) on
corners.
Limited slip on FWD is an issue at high torques. Power steering is
recommended to minimaize the potential backlash thru the steering wheel.
This can be substantial. I drove Bill Swans B-prepared Honda and laying
into the power coming out of a corner just folded my wrist over, it hurt
for days.Definately a two hand car.(1100lb car with a 1100cc built motor
with 14K redline, HP to LB better than a vette)
When a manufacturer puts the above type of LSD up front they usually
tone it down or combine it with traction control and power sterring to
minimize the impact.
The high $ LSD but the type most recommended for FWD is a torsion unit,
I think Quaif makes one also. These use the difference in gear pressure
angles to prevent spinning or reverse rotation of the lifted wheel. They
don't waste energy or influence handling.
If you can keep all the wheels on the ground, the open differential is
faster and doesn't influence the handling. Road racers use this
technique with soft suspension.
If you lift or unload on every corner then LSD is needed. Autocrossers
use this a lot.
If you are depending on great launches(without swapping) or on uneven
terrain, LSD is also needed. Drag racers and 4x4 people use this.
One last closeing point. LSD helps prevent axle breakage. In my 4x4 days
I broke a lot of axles until i got one. The scenario was sand or loose
gravel on a rock or even the side of the road and the wheel spins in
this then catches the firm pavement or rock and BanG! 1 broken axle.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 05:01:59 -0700
From: Geoff Linkleter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Lightweight Flywheel? Limited Slip Diff
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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A limited slip diff is a bit of a mixed blessing in a front wheel drive car
like a Yaris.
Obviously the LSD works by limiting the amount that one front wheel can turn
with respect to the other. On the one hand this can almost double the cars
traction because power is transmitted through both wheels. On the other hand it
stops the diff "diffing" so the car wants to go straight on a corners. Some
designs also judder and bang as they break free during tight turns at low
speeds eg. parking.
Some LSD's can have the torque at which they slip adjusted during assembly so
you can try and get a reasonable compromise between these extremes.
In my experience getting one set tight enough to make a useful traction
improvement without spoiling the handling is difficult unless you are going to
be doing loose surface driving or autotests with a lot of handbrake
turns....... on the other hand a 9" ADC will be a lot of torque for a little
car like a Yaris
So I guess the real answer is "maybe"!
Regards
Geoff
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Subject: RE: Fuel gauge Peukert correction, was: lee's emeter companion?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 23:11:22 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Danny Miller wrote:
> It does not implement Peukert's relationship at all.
> It's taking where Peukert says there is 1/1.2 of
> capacity at 100 amps. If you try to say that
> draining 10 amp-hrs at 100 amps drains 12 amp-hrs
> off the battery, that's simply not Peukert's in any
> way, shape, or form. Not only did he not say that,
> we know for sure the battery does not work that way.
Two things: First, we *are* using the relationship described by Peukert
between available capacity and the discharge rate, using the equation
Peukert developed/proposed. We are not inventing some new relationship
between discharge rate (or any other parameter) and available capacity.
Second, it is pointless to argue whether or not the battery works that
way, because the objective here is to produce a simple display that
provides similar inofrmation as the icE vehicle's fuel guage, but for
the battery and with reasonable accuracy. No matter how many times you
repeat that this cannot work, or cannot be accurate, etc., will not
change the fact that the E-Meter happens to already implement an
algorithm very similar to this and has proven itself to be quite an
effective battery fuel guage.
I started to respond to your scenarios point by point, but I've decided
there really isn't much point; the bottom line is that this technique
is already *proven* to work quite well in practice, so whether you
understand or appreciate how it can be so really doesn't change
anything.
It sounds as if you have a definite preference for the approach of
displaying "available capacity at the present discharge rate" as a
"fuel guage"; that is fine, just don't expect it to be intuitive to
anyone familiar with the fuel guage in an ICE ;^>
As a result of the discussion and thought this thread has stimulated so
far, I think my own opinion is that this 'bouncing fuel guage' is
really trying to display time or distance remaining to empty, not SOC
of the battery, etc., so it should quite pretending to. Two
guages/displays that are common to recent cars are the fuel guage and a
distance remaining to empty indication; I think this is the pair of
information/displays that an EV should try to provide/emulate. So,
let's give them your bouncing guage, but instead of pretending it is the
fuel guage, call it what it really is, and display it as the distance
remaining to empty (or the cheaper version, time remaining to empty), at
the present discharge rate. Let's also give them something resembling
the functionality of a fuel guage, such as the FID display: this is
simply a guage that shows the energy remaining at some fixed discharge
rate.
Cheers,
Roger.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:00:53 -0700
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Wacky 2 speed idea
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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What if a strong planatary gear set was used in the flywheel.
When the clutch is released the input is connected to the output at a
1:1 ratio
When the clutch is pressed the input drives the carrier and the same
output shaft now spins at the reduced ratio.
So you would push in on the clutch and accelerate to about 30mph then
release the clutch and cruise.
(From FORD Model A truck) They had two planatary gears on the flywheel
so they could get reverse too.
I believe the eagle racing transmissions work similar
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 06:27:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: 250 amp breaker popping
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
--- "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You would wire them exactly the same as the picture below. Basically
> you are looping current through all 3 breakers keeping them in series.
>
>
>
> Jody
>
Would this work?
________ _________
| | | |
| Pack 1 | ____ ______ | Pack 2 |
| | | | | | | |
| + - | | | | | | + - |
|________| )----)----) | |_________|
| | | | | | | |
| |_________| |____| |______| |
| |
| |
|_________________Load______________________|
Dave Cover
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:51:16 -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:50:22 -0600
>
>
>On Oct 15, 2006, at 10:49 PM, Adan Vielma wrote:
>
>>Seems to be that even the Curtis doesn't even get "slightly" close to the
>>Zilla?
>
>There are many EVs that use Curtis controllers. They are certainly a valid
>choice.
>
>There are lots of reasons to prefer the Zilla. Much better performance,
>more robust design, dual-motor capability, wider range of pack voltages,
>advanced safety features, serial interface, better support, &etc. For a
>relatively small price increase over a Curtis you get a huge jump in
>features, making it a better value.
>
I've read statements like this here before, that there is not much
difference in price between Curtis and Zilla controllers.
The best price I've been able to find online for each (1221C and Z 1K) are
$1025 and $1975 respectively. That's close to twice the price ( or, a
difference of $950). And, Curtis controllers are available right away at
that price. In addition, the Zilla requires a water-cooling pump and
radiator - likely more costly that the sheet of aluminum that serves as a
Curtis heatsink.
In my case I bought a "new-in-box" 1221C on Ebay for $675. So it would have
cost me another $1300 to have a Zilla instead.
And, I suspect used Zillas are hard to come by, and would not be discounted
much, if at all.
Please don't flame me as a Zilla basher. I'm sure the Zilla is more than
worth the difference, and you certainly get MANY more features for your
money. But these features are not essential for a useful, practical EV.
There are many EV's currently on the road with Curtis controllers ( even
1221's). The book "convert" shows only 1221 Curtis controllers, and those
were certainly successful EV's. It all depends what your goals for the
vehicle are. It would be a shame if the perceived need for a Zilla kept
people with limited budgets from building EV's.
Phil
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