EV Digest 6044
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: ABC12.com: Electric truck is big on savings
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Current Eliminator News
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Possible Motors
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What about the gas tank?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What about the gas tank?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Servo Motors
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: What about the gas tank?
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Testing 123
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) 100 mile EV's, RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Testing 123
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: 100 mile EV's, RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Testing 123
by Mike Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Testing 123
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor disected, datailed pics of gore and motor guts
by "Peter Gabrielsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Kawasaki KZ550 motorcycle conversion candidate on Craigslist
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) 100 mile EV's, RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 100 mile EV's, RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Need Help in Australia
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Need Help in Australia
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) FW: 250 amp breaker poping
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I had those made up by a local sign company. They are magnetic. I will
getyou there email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: ABC12.com: Electric truck is big on savings
Tom Carpenter sent you this from ABC12.com link:
Electric truck is big on savings
(10/19/06)-- A Shiawassee County man drives a pickup that many
people probably wish they had. He never has to stop at gas stations.
http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=automotive&id=4676232
Comments:
My Isuzu on local news
Yo, Tom, I want a "Powered by American Electrons" sticker, too! Who on
the list is selling those?
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.5/483 - Release Date: 10/18/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis, thanks for posting. I'm always inspired to hear about CE and
your adventures. And I'm especially glad to hear it's paying for itself!
Jude Anthony
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
After a great season of racing the ice super pro drag cars at speedworld in
Arizona to a 2nd place finish, the CE raced in the race of champions in
Bakersfield,Ca to a 1st round lost.It was a close race against a dialed 7.67 1200hp
dragster from arizona.This was a car I have won against in the past and the
driver and car were well prepared for me this time.He had a .005 reaction time to
my .025.We both broke out but I by .002 more.Mike Z who is the super pro
champ at speedworld this year also broke out in the 1st round by.004.When you get
to this level of racing you and your car must be right on target and have a
little luck.The hi roller gambler last thurs.eve started out great for the CE we
won that 1st round with a .001 reaction time and close to the dial but the
next rounds were rained out.That round win and speedworld $ paid for most of my
trip.I will try harder next year! NHRAs National Dragster took a good
interview with great pictures that will be in an upcoming issue.We are the 1st ever
electric car to qualify for the NHRA race of champions.
I wish to thank Mark,Fran,Eric,Ken and Wanna for
coming all the miles they did to support me. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
I've run into a guy selling some DC Electric Motors for $300 ea.
25HP (qty 2) and 15HP (Qty 5) continuous duty. Some are brand new in
the box.
The problem is that I think they are rated for 500V.
Hopefully he will fax me the data sheet on these.
Anyone think these might be worth pursuing?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
The ADC 9" is only 19HP continuous, so these definitely seem in the
range. Are they series wound? A permanent magnet 15HP motor would be
huge, and unlikely to be useful for any application that immediately
comes to mind.
Just my opinion, since no one else has answered.
Jude Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You don't have to clean the space. You simply remove the gas tank. On a
vehicle like the VW Beetle you cut the top off and use the tray to hold
batteries. Anytime you use the gastank space access could be a problem.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christie Cooksey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:16 PM
Subject: What about the gas tank?
> I've yet to convert my car to electric as I'm still doing my homework.
>
> Neither of my books or any of the online FAQ pages mentions the gas tank.
> Is this just a big void that you have to leave alone or can you flush it
out
> and use the space?
>
> Cheers
> Christie :0)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why cut it up?
Gee guys. I mentioned that trick for a VW Beetle. Probably won't work on
other cars. They don't have the tank in front & in a good position for this
modification. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: What about the gas tank?
> Why cut it up? Why not try and resell it?
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:36 PM
> Subject: Re: What about the gas tank?
>
>
> >I once oxy/acetylene welded a gas tank puncture, the trick.....fill it
> > completely with water. I still got a tiny poof of fumes going up as I
> > got close with torch, but nothing real exciting.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...
On 10/19/06, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
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Remember, whatever you put back in the muffler/fuel tank area... on most
unibody cars... that's a crush zone. In most cars, it's not designed to
carry a lot of weight... both in body design and weight carrying (being
*behind* the rear wheels.)
You could certainly cut out the bottom of the trunk and extend it
downwards... doubling your trunk capacity.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Evans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: What about the gas tank?
> I once oxy/acetylene welded a gas tank puncture, the trick.....fill it
> completely with water. I still got a tiny poof of fumes going up as I
> got close with torch, but nothing real exciting.
>
> I am not sure I would reuse the gas tank for anything in an EV. It would
> be easier and less risky to use the space for something else--battery box?
--- End Message ---
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:47 PM, Michael Trefry wrote:
Now, I've learned a little more, I understand some of the limitations of
lead batteries, and the fact that people selling EV parts apparently do
exaggerate expectations. (personally I would call it lying to say you can
get an 80-100 mile range on lead batteries, but that's just me)
Not necessarily. It depends on the particular vehicle. For a 914, yeah,
maybe 80-100 miles is a bit of a stretch; it's probably more like 60 miles
for a high-end, well-done, PbA 914 conversion. But for a lightweight,
purpose-built 2-seat EV with an aluminum frame and composite body, or all
composite chassis, like a kitcar or the production EV1 Gen I, 80-100 miles
is easily doable with lead. Someone who knows the history better (it was
way before my time as an EVer) correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the
Gen I EV1 got somewhere around 80 miles on lead, at least with the
Panasonic PbA upgrade to the original problematic Delco PbA's. Someone
here, I think it may have been Bob Rice in a recent phone call, told me that
James Worden currently drives as his daily-driver a Sunrise (which he
originally designed and created at Solectria back in the 90s) that is
running on PbA and gets over a hundred miles range with it, and that's a
5-seat (sedan) car! (Or "saloon" car, as they call it over in Britain, as
does my wife, who comes from a country where they speak English with British
diction; I always wonder where the bar and drinks are in these "saloon"
cars, not to mention guns; makes me think the DWI rates must be outtasight
in the UK.)
My friend Steve Clunn drives a PbA-powered pickup truck and regularly makes
a 80-mile run on business about once every two weeks, on a single charge,
then charges up and makes the return trip 80 miles back in the opposite
direction, usually the same day, again on a single charge. I drove in a
distance challenge road race competition with Steve back in April. I did
141 miles on a single charge in my NiMH-powered RAV4-EV at a constant 47mph
over a timed 3-hour drive, while Steve did 117 miles in his lead-powered
pickup truck. Steve has done 120 miles on a charge in that lead sled
several times. I believe John Wayland also built a lead pickup truck that
does, or did, somewhere around 120 miles per charge. As I recall, I think
it might have been recently destroyed by that runaway dumptruck whose brakes
failed and crashed down a hill into the back of Tony Ascrizzi's house in
Worcester, Massachusetts and destroyed all of his EVs.
I would not call the EV component manufacturers and parts suppliers on this
list liars or say that they are exaggerating. My friends Steve Clunn of
Grassroots EV and Shawn Waggoner and Matt Graham of Suncoast EV here in
South Florida are among the leading EV parts dealers in the country, and I
know them to be very straighforward, honest people of the utmost integrity
who are not prone to hyperbole. The EV components manufacturers that EVers
purchase from, people like Rich of Manzanita Micro, Otmar of Cafe Electric,
and George of NetGain, are similarly straight-shooting, honest, no-BS guys
with good reputations for personal integrity and high quality, reliable
products that they stand behind. That is why they have gained the respect
of listers.
On the other hand, however, the ones you really need to watch out for and
exercise an appropriate degree of skepticism and develop a hyper-sensitive
BS meter are the battery manufacturers. It is probably a mark of your
noobyism and not having been around very long that you likely haven't heard
the old saying among EVers that:
"There are liars, there are damned liars, and then there are battery
salesmen!"
Welcome to the club, Michael, and congratulations on surviving your initial,
first round of hazing, which is often more brutal here than that of any
college fraternity. (Not that I would know, because I was never in one, and
in fact wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member, to quote some
famous phrase, I forget by whom.) So just learn to develop a little bit
thicker skin and stick and around and enjoy repeated hazings, as there's
plenty more where that came from. You learn to take it in good spirit and
just laugh it off after a while, all the sparring and big egos here. But
yes, it's definitely safer to just lurk in the background on this list than
to open one's mouth, which one does at one's own risk. If you lurk and read
long enough, many of your questions will eventually get answered, and not at
the expense of your own skin being chafed and singed, but rather you can
just sit back, enjoy the spectacle, and have a good laugh at others' expense
while you learn.
Charles Whalen
On Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:47 PM, Michael Trefry wrote:
And so the newbie slips away and doesn't ask any more questions.
In my defense I didn't say "tell me how to do this" I asked for advice on
what could be done to try and achieve as many items on my wish list as I
could.
The answer it can't be done doesn't sit well, because it can be done,
granted with great expense, but it CAN be done. I wasn't asking for a
perpetual motion machine.
I found it interesting that a subsequent thread went on to discuss just
how you could build a $25,000 EV with all the items on my wish
list, all without the newbie bashing.
Now, I've learned a little more, I understand some of the limitations of
lead batteries, and the fact that people selling EV parts apparently do
exaggerate expectations. (personally I would call it lying to say you can
get an 80-100 mile range on lead batteries, but that's just me)
I still don't know how everything goes together to make a working EV, but
that's something I am slowly learning on my own, because I am more
reserved about asking anything here unless I understand the topic. But
then why ask?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
Generally the list is pretty polite to newbies. However, when someone
comes to the list and asks "tell me how to do this" and knowledgeable
folks tell them "sorry can't be done" and the noob responds "Don't tell me
it's not possible, help me figure out how to do the impossible", it tends
to annoy some folks.
We've actually had people come on this list and ask for help with
over-unity ideas (over-unity is a machine that produces more energy than
it uses, sort of like a perpetual motion machine on steriods).
They say something like "I'm trying to do this, but having trouble getting
it to work" and the list will say "The reason you can't get it to work, is
because it CAN'T work, it violates the laws of physics" and, I kid you
not, we had one guy say "well those laws were discovered over a hundred
years ago, so surely we can improve on them by now. Besides I don't have
any education to get in the way of my ideas, I read a book on magnetisim
and I'm sure I've discovered a new way of doing it"
If someone comes to the list and asks for advice, and then says "I don't
like your advice and I disagree with all of your experience and knowledge
because it's not the answer I wanted", well often the list doesn't respond
well.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michael and All,
I told you, others a couple ways in the
beginning how you could get what you want but you ignored
it. The way is get a lightweight, aero, low drag glider so
you can easily carry 100 mile range battery pack, about 50%
vehicle/battery weight with good drag reduction technics,
you could do it on under $10k if you didn't want dragster
acceleration, settle for good acceleration instead. But even
that can be had for well under $20k.
You could even do it in Ni-cad surplus,
BB600's, ect for a very reasonable price. About $8k worth of
new ones would get me over 100 mile range. If I wanted to
race, I'd go that BB600's, especially if in colder area's,
before I'd ever go AGM.
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:47:43 -0400
>And so the newbie slips away and doesn't ask any more
>questions.
>
>Now, I've learned a little more, I understand some of the
>limitations of lead batteries, and the fact that people
>selling EV parts apparently do exaggerate expectations.
>(personally I would call it lying to say you can get an
>80-100 mile range on lead batteries, but that's just me)
Would you like to make a bet on that? I can think
of some over 100 mile range on lead batteries EV's. While
not common, they do exist. Mine will shortly.
>
>I still don't know how everything goes together to make a
>working EV, but that's something I am slowly learning on my
>own, because I am more reserved about asking anything here
>unless I understand the topic. But then why ask?
It's a free list and you get what you pay for ;^D .
But if you stick around a while you learn who knows what.
What you get here is equal to a college education in EV's,
it's not free, you have to work on it.
A faster way is read 3-6 months back posts instead of
a couple TV shows, football game, ect, and you'll get a
better idea of what works and doesn't. But one thing I can
tell you, is here, over time is the best source of V info
you will find anywhere.
Another, faster way is join the EVWare list, a great
archive of how to build eff, long range EV's from scratch.
If you want to go faster, just put in a larger
motor/controller.
For a very fast, but low cost EV, you can combine a
contactor controller/bypass with a less expensive E
controller. But if you carry around a lot of extra weight,
in an EV, you will pay for it.
Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter
>VanDerWal Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:18 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
>
>Generally the list is pretty polite to newbies. However,
>when someone comes to the list and asks "tell me how to do
>this" and knowledgeable folks tell them "sorry can't be
>done" and the noob responds "Don't tell me it's not
>possible, help me figure out how to do the impossible", it
>tends to annoy some folks.
>
>We've actually had people come on this list and ask for
>help with over-unity ideas (over-unity is a machine that
>produces more energy than it uses, sort of like a perpetual
>motion machine on steriods).
>
>They say something like "I'm trying to do this, but having
>trouble getting it to work" and the list will say "The
>reason you can't get it to work, is because it CAN'T work,
>it violates the laws of physics" and, I kid you not, we had
>one guy say "well those laws were discovered over a hundred
>years ago, so surely we can improve on them by now.
>Besides I don't have any education to get in the way of my
>ideas, I read a book on magnetisim and I'm sure I've
>discovered a new way of doing it"
>
>If someone comes to the list and asks for advice, and then
>says "I don't like your advice and I disagree with all of
>your experience and knowledge because it's not the answer I
>wanted", well often the list doesn't respond well.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jim,
I hear you ok as well all your other e-mail. While you have your ears on,
did you find a motor I can use to replace my accessory motor, which is too
long to use in my latest EV. I need something that will turn a A/C and
alternator that would require 1 to 1.5 hp.
The maximum diameter would be 5.5 inches and length of 9 inches. The
voltage rating is to be about 180 VDC and like to have it at constant 1500
to 1800 RPM.
If not, then it is possible to build one to these specs.?
Over
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:06 PM
Subject: Testing 123
>
> Hey all
>
> I've had a few notes that I'm getting trumped here. I'm recieving it
> back okay, and I haven't changed anything. Any Idea what's going on
> here??
>
> Does anybody HEAR Meeeeee 8..^ (
>
> Help!!!
> Jim Husted
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't ignore you Jerry.
It's just isn't a realistic option for me. I don't have the knowledge,
experience or patience to build a lightweight glider from the ground up.
Let me know when you have some of those Freedom EVs for sale and we'll talk.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerryd
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 100 mile EV's, RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
Hi Michael and All,
I told you, others a couple ways in the
beginning how you could get what you want but you ignored
it. The way is get a lightweight, aero, low drag glider so
you can easily carry 100 mile range battery pack, about 50%
vehicle/battery weight with good drag reduction technics,
you could do it on under $10k if you didn't want dragster
acceleration, settle for good acceleration instead. But even
that can be had for well under $20k.
You could even do it in Ni-cad surplus,
BB600's, ect for a very reasonable price. About $8k worth of
new ones would get me over 100 mile range. If I wanted to
race, I'd go that BB600's, especially if in colder area's,
before I'd ever go AGM.
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Michael Trefry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 19:47:43 -0400
>And so the newbie slips away and doesn't ask any more
>questions.
>
>Now, I've learned a little more, I understand some of the
>limitations of lead batteries, and the fact that people
>selling EV parts apparently do exaggerate expectations.
>(personally I would call it lying to say you can get an
>80-100 mile range on lead batteries, but that's just me)
Would you like to make a bet on that? I can think
of some over 100 mile range on lead batteries EV's. While
not common, they do exist. Mine will shortly.
>
>I still don't know how everything goes together to make a
>working EV, but that's something I am slowly learning on my
>own, because I am more reserved about asking anything here
>unless I understand the topic. But then why ask?
It's a free list and you get what you pay for ;^D .
But if you stick around a while you learn who knows what.
What you get here is equal to a college education in EV's,
it's not free, you have to work on it.
A faster way is read 3-6 months back posts instead of
a couple TV shows, football game, ect, and you'll get a
better idea of what works and doesn't. But one thing I can
tell you, is here, over time is the best source of V info
you will find anywhere.
Another, faster way is join the EVWare list, a great
archive of how to build eff, long range EV's from scratch.
If you want to go faster, just put in a larger
motor/controller.
For a very fast, but low cost EV, you can combine a
contactor controller/bypass with a less expensive E
controller. But if you carry around a lot of extra weight,
in an EV, you will pay for it.
Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter
>VanDerWal Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:18 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
>
>Generally the list is pretty polite to newbies. However,
>when someone comes to the list and asks "tell me how to do
>this" and knowledgeable folks tell them "sorry can't be
>done" and the noob responds "Don't tell me it's not
>possible, help me figure out how to do the impossible", it
>tends to annoy some folks.
>
>We've actually had people come on this list and ask for
>help with over-unity ideas (over-unity is a machine that
>produces more energy than it uses, sort of like a perpetual
>motion machine on steriods).
>
>They say something like "I'm trying to do this, but having
>trouble getting it to work" and the list will say "The
>reason you can't get it to work, is because it CAN'T work,
>it violates the laws of physics" and, I kid you not, we had
>one guy say "well those laws were discovered over a hundred
>years ago, so surely we can improve on them by now.
>Besides I don't have any education to get in the way of my
>ideas, I read a book on magnetisim and I'm sure I've
>discovered a new way of doing it"
>
>If someone comes to the list and asks for advice, and then
>says "I don't like your advice and I disagree with all of
>your experience and knowledge because it's not the answer I
>wanted", well often the list doesn't respond well.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jim, i just see the message below. must be an HTML format thing ???
regards,
mike
Jim Husted wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
When I receive your messages, the list has "processed" them.
You've probably got your e-mail client set to send HTML messages by
default. Most of them have a way to set mail to a particular recipient
to go in Plain Text format; if you tell me what e-mail program you use,
I'd be happy to research this, as I consider you a valuable resource to
the list. (I wouldn't do this stuff for just anybody. ;-)
It's also possible you've added a signature to your emails, and the sig
contains HTML (links/pictures), text formatting
(bold/italic/size/color), or an address card. In that case, removing
your sig will take care of the problem.
Respect,
Jude Anthony
Jim Husted wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
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But really meant:
Hey all
I've had a few notes that I'm getting trumped here. I'm recieving it back okay, and I haven't changed anything. Any Idea what's going on here??
Does anybody HEAR Meeeeee 8..^ (
Help!!!
Jim Husted
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seems this one got truncated too
On 10/19/06, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
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> On the other hand, however, the ones you really need to watch out
for and
> exercise an appropriate degree of skepticism and develop a
hyper-sensitive
> BS meter are the battery manufacturers. It is probably a mark of your
> noobyism and not having been around very long that you likely
haven't heard
> the old saying among EVers that:
>
> "There are liars, there are damned liars, and then there are battery
> salesmen!"
"There are liars, damn liars, and statisticians" came from Disraeli,
or was it Mark Twain?
> Welcome to the club, Michael, and congratulations on surviving your
initial,
> first round of hazing, which is often more brutal here than that of any
> college fraternity. (Not that I would know, because I was never in
one, and
> in fact wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member, to
quote some
> famous phrase, I forget by whom.)
That was Groucho marx, who wasn't allowed to join a country club due
to being Jewish.
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http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/zip/223058830.html
This used to be a pretty decent motorcycle,
though I do not know its current condition.
But hey - it's free and once restored looks
great:
http://www.ronh.org/kaw550.htm
http://www.themotorbookstore.com/kawkzzx19.html
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
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--- Begin Message ---
> Hi Michael and All,
> I told you, others a couple ways in the
> beginning how you could get what you want but you ignored
> it. The way is get a lightweight, aero, low drag glider so
> you can easily carry 100 mile range battery pack, about 50%
> vehicle/battery weight with good drag reduction technics,
> you could do it on under $10k if you didn't want dragster
> acceleration, settle for good acceleration instead. But even
> that can be had for well under $20k.
> You could even do it in Ni-cad surplus,
> BB600's, ect for a very reasonable price. About $8k worth of
> new ones would get me over 100 mile range. If I wanted to
> race, I'd go that BB600's, especially if in colder area's,
> before I'd ever go AGM.
>
He specifically said this was a 914 conversion, which he subsequently
purchased (or maybe already had at the time), so your comments would
have been inappropriate to the subject.
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Christie Cooksey wrote:
Are there any Australians out there who can give advice to an old sheila?
I've just decided to convert my own car and the only Australian sites I can
find don't answer their email.
I live in country NSW and need advice on where to buy materials in
Australia.
Cheers
Christie :0)
If you happen to choose Siemens or MES AC system (see metricmind.com),
please contact me off list.
Victor
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Christie
If you happen to choose Siemens or MES AC system (see metricmind.com),
please contact me off list. Email address is on that site.
Victor
Christie Cooksey wrote:
Are there any Australians out there who can give advice to an old sheila?
I've just decided to convert my own car and the only Australian sites I can
find don't answer their email.
I live in country NSW and need advice on where to buy materials in
Australia.
Cheers
Christie :0)
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Hello to Michael and All,
From Death to all Spammers:
In his defense, he was referring to a 914 going 100 miles on lead.
Michael Trefry wrote:
Sorry John. I meant in a Porsche 914. I'm sure your truck can handle a much
larger load of batteries.
Michael, absent the 'Porsche 914' info, for those who may have missed
your 914 oriented posts (like me) you were making a blanket statement.
This should underscore the importance of including either pasted quotes
or some sort of reference to what your context is, in your posts.
Yeah, it would be hard to put enough lead into a 914 and get 100 mile
range. It was pretty easy to do and easy to haul in the sturdy bed of a
Toyota mid-sized pickup. All it took was some added Firestone air bags
in the rear to beef up the suspension.
See Ya.....John Wayland
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Michael,
which breaker are you using? I'm using the Airpax AIR-250A-160V - $30 EACH
from solarseller.com
http://www.solarseller.com/dc_circuit_breakers__dc_circuit_breaker_ul_listed_to_125_volts_dc.htm
Since I'm running 192V I'm going series through two breakers. When I was doing
performance testing I could do several 0-60mph
runs at full acceleration without blowing the breakers. Only 1 time did the
breakers ever pop. This was after about 5 hard
accelerations. The breakers were warm to the touch, but cooled off in a couple
minutes. But it interrupted at around 900 amps.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 5:25 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: 250 amp breaker poping
>
>
> Hello
>
> I have this 86 toyota PU running with a 9"warp, a
> logisystem controller 1209 at 550amp/120v, and 20
> 6volt sam's club batteries.
>
> Only using a 250 amp breaker, but it seems to pop to
> frequently. Even though my emeter says I'm at 150 it
> can pop.
>
> Perhaps I should upgrade with 4 more batteries,
> becuase I have a 144volt controller.
>
> But is there a cheap place to get a 400amp breaker?
>
> Thanks!
> Michael Golub
> Fairbanks
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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Phil Marino wrote:
> >For a relatively small price increase over a Curtis you
> >get a huge jump in features, making it a better value.
>
> The best price I've been able to find online for each (1221C
> and Z 1K) are $1025 and $1975 respectively. That's close to
> twice the price
In all fairness, the 1221 is less than half the controller (400A vs
1000A), for more than half the price. I think the price comment is
generally understood to refer to the difference between the two closest
models, which are the 1231 and Z1K. The 1231 sells for $1425 vs the
Z1K's $1975, which is less than 40% difference.
> In addition, the Zilla requires a water-cooling pump and
> radiator - likely more costly that the sheet of aluminum
> that serves as a Curtis heatsink.
A sheet of aluminum is not a heatsink. If you would use a flat plate to
cool your Curtis, you would likely run the Zilla without plumbing the
cooling system. ;^>
I suspect the cost for the proper Curtis heatsink is remarkably similar
to the cost of the water pump for the Zilla. I also expect that a rad
is unnecessary in most cases and that simply circulating coolant through
the controller from a tank is sufficient.
> Please don't flame me as a Zilla basher. I'm sure the Zilla
> is more than worth the difference, and you certainly get
> MANY more features for your money. But these features are
> not essential for a useful, practical EV.
Not at all, you make good points. There are many people whose
applications are not so demanding as to preclude the use of a Curtis.
If you don't need to go over 120-144V, and have a light vehicle (don't
need more than 500-550A *peak*), then a Curtis may do you fine. The
Curtis will not deliver its full current once it heats up a bit, and
will only deliver it for 2min when it starts off cold, but if your
commute is relatively flat, etc. this may not matter.
The superior cooling of the Zilla means that it is likely to deliver
nearer to its full current whenever called upon to do so, and since its
full current is at least 2x that of the biggest Curtis, even if you ran
it without plumbing the cooling system you'd probably find that it
resulted in a more powerful vehicle than the Curtis since it has to
derate to less than half its max output before it drops to the *best* a
Curtis will do when cold.
The big feature that the Zilla (and the DCPs, when they were available)
offer is rev limiting. I don't think the value of this feature on a DC
car that retains the clutch should be underestimated. There is simply
too much opportunity for someone to try to drive the car like an ICE and
blow the motor before they figure out that you simply can't hear how
fast its spinning, or for someone who knows to simply have a bad day and
miss a shift, etc. Adding the cost of an external rev limiter (~$220)
to the cost of the Curtis (1231), narrows the price gap to just $330 or
20% more for the 'Zilla than the Curtis.
A 20% premium for at least 2x the current (2x the low end torque), plus
all those other features that you may or may not need (series/parallel,
reverse, etc) doesn't sound bad at all.
The biggest strike against the Zilla right now is the lead time. If I
were shopping for a controller right now, I'm afraid that unless I
absolutely had to have a pack voltage over 144V, I'd be buying a 1231
and external rev-limiter so I could get on the road, and would be
looking to upgrade to a 'Z1K and sell off the Curtis once Otmar gets
caught up with orders.
Cheers,
Roger.
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