EV Digest 6048
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: CX 500 Conversion
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) 1980 VW Rabbit project for sale.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV grinnin' again!
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Zilla Blog update
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Testing 123
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Searching Archives?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by "Curtis Muhlestein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Ni-Cad Cell Reversal
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: After Market Electric power steering box
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: [a-w-h] NEW CERAMIC BATTERY BANK
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This clutch in front seems to a common configuration in Hondas with
longitudinal cranks. I have it on my ST1100. It makes for easy clutch
replacement.
Any other configuration would require engine removal for clutch replacement.
But enough about ICE.
You may not need a clutch as badly as you think. Motorcycle transmissions
are typically what are called “dog” transmissions. This means that instead of
using a Synchro/friction gear to match gear speeds before a shift they use “
dogs” or pegs to abruptly engage the next gear. This can be noisy if the speed
differences are great. Normally you match these speeds with engine braking
and clutch work. (if you ride ice bikes you know about the occasional noise
and rpm matching).
At worst the “dog” will have to deal with the momentum of the armature and
its associated gearing. This can be tough in case of 1st to 2nd of 2nd to
1st shifts where the gear step is large but is no problem in the higher gears.
You just have to get off of the throttle and shift. I don’t actually have
that problem because 1st gear has been removed from my bike. I have the added
complication of wanting the motor rpms to stay relatively high so that I can
make effective use of regen braking. All I have to do to make that easier is
to get off of the regen brake pedal while I shift. Beware downshifting too far
though it may warrant a trip to the motor rebuilder.
There are some other problems you will have to be aware of though. First the
gearbox has to be sealed after your engine dissection. In a 4 stroke this
will usually result in a gearbox with one side open. This will have to be
sealed. Mine still leaks like a sieve even though it was from a 2 stroke where
the
gearbox and crankcase are sealed from each other. If the cx500 uses two
different oils for the crankcase and gearbox you may be safe but you still
have
some sealing to do. The way that engine is laid out I suspect that the clutch
crank and gears use the same oil as in my ST1100. I have had to resort to
using a catch pan under the trans. So now I am an oil recycler too. Another
serious problem if you have an open gearbox is that you will loose the
stiffening of the crankcase and will have to use a heavier and more sturdily
fixed
sealing plate on the front of the box to retain gearbox rigidity under load.
I also didn’t catch whether that engine was a stressed member or not. If so
you will have to put in tubing to replace that frame element. Make sure you
do not skimp here it is critical to have the head tube very strongly fixed
into position. A very dangerous steering wobble is certain to occur if you do
not. Be very careful here.
My bike is _http://www.evalbum.com/857_ (http://www.evalbum.com/857)
Rick Miller
In a message dated 10/20/2006 12:39:50 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The clutch (and hence input to the transmission) is actually at the
front of the crankcase, right behind the front wheel. It's laid out a
bit weird.
Geoff Linkleter wrote:
> Ah, I was visualising that the idea was literally just to keep the
gearbox, i.e. not the crank case..... hence the reason I was foreseeing
problems
>
> Geoff
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The only thing in the middle is the possible 156v controller by Logixyxtems.
Lawrence Rhodes.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've craigs listed my Rabbit.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/223529458.html The wife has put her foot
down. Only one electric car. 80% complete VW Rabbit. Rear battery box in.
Motor in. Needs: Motor mount, controller, DC/DC, charger & batteries.
Contact Lawrence Rhodes 415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got one coming in a month or so. Ask me next spring about how it does.
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The only thing in the middle is the
possible 156v controller by Logixyxtems.
Lawrence Rhodes.........
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
What do we need in the way of Controllers and what would you folks pay for a
new design?
Considering every item in the EV is a few thousand and quickly adds up
to $16,000+; preferably as little as possible.
96 to 450 volts. DC
450 volts is excellent. Even up near there would be great. More
would be welcomed too..
550 to 1100 amps IGBT based.
1100 amps at 450 volts hmmm.... 495000 not quite enough..(for me)
Battery current and Motor current adjustable...
170 volts for the motor...
With a 25 turn pot.. No programming head or computer needed.
I like that.
AIR COOLED!
As long as it can take it and is up to it and no chance of overheating
the controller ala Curtis..
High speed Real time Rev limiter. Digipot or Dip switch selectable RPMs.
A good thing to have to keep from blowing motors when running them up
to their limits(and potentially shifting gears).
Cost.. Around $2000.
I admit, it's a good price, but I need more power to pull me away from
my ludacris turbo charged power addiction.
Curtii are cheap, and will stay that way if you can get them to let you
order less than 50 Units at a time.
What if you bought 50 and water cooled them and doubled, tripled, or
quadrupled+ their output?
Most of you know I still have a large chip on my shoulder about doing
controllers again.
This was before my time here. What was your experience with it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I drove the Fiero out of the garage and around the yard! Took a whopping 15
amps to move it! I am pleased! Still need to correct a 12V wiring error that
for some reason keeps the start signal from getting to the zilla, but other
than that, no known problems! Even tested the heater...about 11.6 amps steady
state, and boy is that air hot!
Couple questions, though:
When I plugged in the pack disconnect, *all* of the regs low bat indicators lit
up. Each battery was individually charged before installation, and I checked
after the lights came on and they were still healthy, resting at 12.85V or so.
The voltage was steady, too. So there should have been no 'event' (at least I
didn't see or smell any smoke, and no fuses blew). I got my new PFC20 today,
so I can run a charge cycle tomorrow, but in the meantime, it looks like a
Christmas tree! Is this normal? I knwo they are wired correctly, as I set
each one while charging the battery it is on, and verified their proper
operation.
I also don't think the Iota DC-DC came on. voltage is a little lower than it
likes at 228V nominal, since I had to leave out a couple of batteries, maybe
that's keeping it from coming on? Anybody familiar with the lower voltage
limits of those things?
Phase I is complete - on to phase II: The suspension, getting it legal,
...and rebuild the door panels, and get the subwoofer working, and etc. and
etc.....the 'easy' stuff;-)
David Brandt
EV grinnin' again!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rich and all,
Rich Rudman wrote:
The specs list something like this: 96 to 450 volts. DC 550 to 1100
amps IGBT based.
I'd be more interested in seeing controllers built as several
different models for several distinct voltage ranges. For example, build
a different model for 60-160V nominal, 160-260V nominal, and 260-360V
nominal. Note that the min/max voltage ranges would overlap so any pack
should be fully compatible with at least one model. This would (at least
theoretically) allow the controllers to be less expensive and more
efficient because they can be better tuned for the voltage and current
ranges involved.
Precahrge and contactor control. High speed Real time Rev limter.
Digi pot or Dip switch selectable RPMs. Battery current and Motor
current adjustable...With a 25 turn pot.. No
programming head or computer needed.
Of course... and I'd argue that these features should be mandatory
for any EV motor controller, period. However, using potentiometers for
these voltage/current/RPM limiter adjustments is something I'm concerned
about. I think these settings need to be resistant to adjustment error
that could be caused by wear, vibration, temperature, curious fingers,
etc... and software control is certainly far less prone to such problems.
Yes, getting a computer set up to modify settings can be a pain, but
in this case I think the benefits of software control really out-weight
any such hassles. Also, the settings should be as accurate as possible,
at least with respect to the battery-side settings.
AIR COOLED! The heat sink from a PFC50 comes to mind, It's about %40
better than the old Raptor Wakefield heat sink. Of course water
cooling is doable...for a price. But lets not go there right yet.
To put it nicely, I'm really not impressed with air-cooled EV gear.
Maybe its because I've driven my EV through the south Texas summers, but
I just don't feel that air-cooled electronics are a good solution for
EVs. Reliability in hot climates being one important issue, size being
another. Along the same lines, I believe EV electronics need to be
properly protected from the automotive environment... meaning they
should be at least splash proof from all sides. Many air cooled products
lack such protection, and IMO this isn't a great design habit for this
application.
PB6 throttle pot needed. No fancy throttle boxes or hand wound
sensors needed. Fault protected High and low pot.
This of course makes good sense as it allows for easy replacement of
the throttle pot in the future (no need to build a custom replacement).
My 0.333 kWh,
--
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
http://www.ACEAA.org/
--------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, Please correct me if I am wrong.
The difference between a motor controller and a charger is the motor
controller usually uses the motors inductance to smooth out the DC. The
charger must have the inductor because batteries don't have inductance.
Some motor controllers have their own inductance but the extra stage
lowers effiency.
So AP propulsions brilliant solution uses the inductance of the motor
for the charger. Smart! but probably only useful on an AC motor ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think what has been pointed out as missing is a good, highpower sepex.
So the DC hobbiest can get regen.
Jim can rewind the fields for sep-ex.
But I would like to see an inexpensive 3-phase ac controller, Sine drive
at slow speeds for smoothness and eff and six-step at high rpms for
effiency and reduced CPU needs (and as backup for encoder failure). The
parameters or source code should be "open" so we can tune to many
different motors. I am trying to get my hands on some software for
design and simulation.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Otmar has some additional information on his CafeElectric Blog:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/blog/
Sounds like things are moving along slowly but surely. It's really nice
to hear that the prices won't be going up on the LV models for now.
Just a note - I am still able to take orders for Zillas. The quickest
way to get one is to get in line. Deposits can be made from here:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_controllers.php
Let me know if you have any questions.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Professional grade electric vehicle parts and resources
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would agree requiring a computer to make adjustments is overkill,
perhaps not for racing, doing data logging and analysis you use a
computer, but for a normal car, not everyone even has a laptop.
But I also agree you want something that can't be changed by accident.
I simple 2-line LCD interface with dial menu scroll and one button
select is what I've used for my RC chargers, laptimers, and controllers.
Jack
Nick Viera wrote:
Hi Rich and all,
Rich Rudman wrote:
The specs list something like this: 96 to 450 volts. DC 550 to 1100
amps IGBT based.
I'd be more interested in seeing controllers built as several
different models for several distinct voltage ranges. For example, build
a different model for 60-160V nominal, 160-260V nominal, and 260-360V
nominal. Note that the min/max voltage ranges would overlap so any pack
should be fully compatible with at least one model. This would (at least
theoretically) allow the controllers to be less expensive and more
efficient because they can be better tuned for the voltage and current
ranges involved.
Precahrge and contactor control. High speed Real time Rev limter.
Digi pot or Dip switch selectable RPMs. Battery current and Motor
current adjustable...With a 25 turn pot.. No
programming head or computer needed.
Of course... and I'd argue that these features should be mandatory
for any EV motor controller, period. However, using potentiometers for
these voltage/current/RPM limiter adjustments is something I'm concerned
about. I think these settings need to be resistant to adjustment error
that could be caused by wear, vibration, temperature, curious fingers,
etc... and software control is certainly far less prone to such problems.
Yes, getting a computer set up to modify settings can be a pain, but
in this case I think the benefits of software control really out-weight
any such hassles. Also, the settings should be as accurate as possible,
at least with respect to the battery-side settings.
AIR COOLED! The heat sink from a PFC50 comes to mind, It's about %40
better than the old Raptor Wakefield heat sink. Of course water
cooling is doable...for a price. But lets not go there right yet.
To put it nicely, I'm really not impressed with air-cooled EV gear.
Maybe its because I've driven my EV through the south Texas summers, but
I just don't feel that air-cooled electronics are a good solution for
EVs. Reliability in hot climates being one important issue, size being
another. Along the same lines, I believe EV electronics need to be
properly protected from the automotive environment... meaning they
should be at least splash proof from all sides. Many air cooled products
lack such protection, and IMO this isn't a great design habit for this
application.
PB6 throttle pot needed. No fancy throttle boxes or hand wound
sensors needed. Fault protected High and low pot.
This of course makes good sense as it allows for easy replacement of
the throttle pot in the future (no need to build a custom replacement).
My 0.333 kWh,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar,
How about having Rich license building of Zilla controllers? Its better to
keep your great product going than spend a whole lot of time and effort
developing a new line.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Rudman
Sent: October 20, 2006 9:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re:EV controllers? the 4th option...
OK listers...
What do we need in the way of Controllers and what would you folks pay for a
new design?
The specs list something like this:
96 to 450 volts. DC
550 to 1100 amps IGBT based.
Precahrge and contactor control.
Battery current and Motor current adjustable...With a 25 turn pot.. No
programming head or computer needed.
AIR COOLED! The heat sink from a PFC50 comes to mind, It's about %40 better
than the old Raptor Wakefield heat sink.
Of course water cooling is doable...for a price. But lets not go there right
yet.
High speed Real time Rev limter. Digi pot or Dip switch selectable RPMs.
PB6 throttle pot needed. No fancy throttle boxes or hand wound sensors
needed. Fault protected High and low pot.
Case size the 500 in a PFC30 case and Bigger one.. in a maybe a PFC50 case
But that's way too big.
Fine I will design a case that works the best.
This I think would cover 90% of the Demand.
Cost.. Around $2000. With enough over head to make our distributors happy.
Keep in mind I need $2000... mark up is going to be needed.
I am not pricing this product to be cheap, I am pricing it to be worth my
time to Jump back into Controller Hell, and maybe to Get Otmar out of
retirement.
Curtii are cheap, and will stay that way if you can get them to let you
order less than 50 Units at a time. BIG black mark for them on that front.
Otmar.. Hey dude I will come down there and work for you for free if it gets
Zk2s out the door faster.
I doubt that is going to happen... But that's how much respect I have for
His Gear and as a friend.
All this I don't want to do ... Otmar... Man where are you??? The EV world
is starving for controllers...
Vacumes get filled...
I have my own products to try to keep shipping on time...I can't... But I
can't let this Whole market die on the vine because of a lack of decent
controllers.
With a demand for 100s of Curtis and 1000 amp class controllers.. I can do
this, and pretty fast.
This whole product is the basic Guts to the 75K monster charger. Sans the
400 lbs transformer and water cooled rectifier Stack.
I lit if up again last night... it's getting chilly up here in Seattle.. and
40 lbs of Nichrome heat the shop rather nicely.
This stack of IGBT has moves soemthing like 5 Mega watt hours doing spave
heating chores.. so WE do have some real test time on the concept.
Since my DCP days, I have staid out of the controller market. Do I hear a
Pleade from the list to Get something out and Available??
Most of you know I still have a large chip on my shoulder about doing
controllers again.
I want to.. But should I???
Sincerley
Rich Rudman
aka Madman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 11:00 PM
Subject: RE: what are your top 3 motor controllers?
> Phil Marino wrote:
>
> > >For a relatively small price increase over a Curtis you
> > >get a huge jump in features, making it a better value.
> >
> > The best price I've been able to find online for each (1221C
> > and Z 1K) are $1025 and $1975 respectively. That's close to
> > twice the price
>
> In all fairness, the 1221 is less than half the controller (400A vs
> 1000A), for more than half the price. I think the price comment is
> generally understood to refer to the difference between the two closest
> models, which are the 1231 and Z1K. The 1231 sells for $1425 vs the
> Z1K's $1975, which is less than 40% difference.
>
> > In addition, the Zilla requires a water-cooling pump and
> > radiator - likely more costly that the sheet of aluminum
> > that serves as a Curtis heatsink.
>
> A sheet of aluminum is not a heatsink. If you would use a flat plate to
> cool your Curtis, you would likely run the Zilla without plumbing the
> cooling system. ;^>
>
> I suspect the cost for the proper Curtis heatsink is remarkably similar
> to the cost of the water pump for the Zilla. I also expect that a rad
> is unnecessary in most cases and that simply circulating coolant through
> the controller from a tank is sufficient.
>
> > Please don't flame me as a Zilla basher. I'm sure the Zilla
> > is more than worth the difference, and you certainly get
> > MANY more features for your money. But these features are
> > not essential for a useful, practical EV.
>
> Not at all, you make good points. There are many people whose
> applications are not so demanding as to preclude the use of a Curtis.
> If you don't need to go over 120-144V, and have a light vehicle (don't
> need more than 500-550A *peak*), then a Curtis may do you fine. The
> Curtis will not deliver its full current once it heats up a bit, and
> will only deliver it for 2min when it starts off cold, but if your
> commute is relatively flat, etc. this may not matter.
>
> The superior cooling of the Zilla means that it is likely to deliver
> nearer to its full current whenever called upon to do so, and since its
> full current is at least 2x that of the biggest Curtis, even if you ran
> it without plumbing the cooling system you'd probably find that it
> resulted in a more powerful vehicle than the Curtis since it has to
> derate to less than half its max output before it drops to the *best* a
> Curtis will do when cold.
>
> The big feature that the Zilla (and the DCPs, when they were available)
> offer is rev limiting. I don't think the value of this feature on a DC
> car that retains the clutch should be underestimated. There is simply
> too much opportunity for someone to try to drive the car like an ICE and
> blow the motor before they figure out that you simply can't hear how
> fast its spinning, or for someone who knows to simply have a bad day and
> miss a shift, etc. Adding the cost of an external rev limiter (~$220)
> to the cost of the Curtis (1231), narrows the price gap to just $330 or
> 20% more for the 'Zilla than the Curtis.
>
> A 20% premium for at least 2x the current (2x the low end torque), plus
> all those other features that you may or may not need (series/parallel,
> reverse, etc) doesn't sound bad at all.
>
> The biggest strike against the Zilla right now is the lead time. If I
> were shopping for a controller right now, I'm afraid that unless I
> absolutely had to have a pack voltage over 144V, I'd be buying a 1231
> and external rev-limiter so I could get on the road, and would be
> looking to upgrade to a 'Z1K and sell off the Curtis once Otmar gets
> caught up with orders.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Oct 2006 at 23:10, Mike Sandman wrote:
> jim, i just see the message below. must be an HTML format thing ???
This happens periodically. The problem is that the email sent contains both
plain text and html. The listserver deletes the html to save bandwidth and
to prevent malware from being transmitted, replacing it with the "deleted"
message.
The problem is that it leaves the mime information intact. Your email
reader thus sees that the message as a multipart one, with both plain text
and html. Unless nagged, most email readers assume that, given a choice,
you'd rather see the html version since most folks prefer eye candy when
it's available. So it obligingly displays the html - with no idea that it's
showing you nothing but the "deleted" message.
Fixing this properly requires action at the sending end. A little effort at
the receiving end will help too. So, please do this :
1. Configure your email program so that it sends ONLY plain text emails, NOT
html, NOT "rich text," NOT multipart emails with both plain text and html.
Send plain text only.
2. Then, configure your email program to display only plain text, when given
a choice between plain text and html.
I don't know how to make these changes with the commonly used MS program
Outlook Express; maybe someone else does. (Please post this and I'll save
it for next time.) Perhaps others will provide the information for the
programs they use for email.
With Pegasus Mail, the program I use :
Click Tools - Options.
Under the Outgoing Mail item, click on Message Formatting. Tick the box
marked "Disable all text styling options."
Under the Incoming Mail item, click on Message Reader. Clear the box marked
"Where a choice of format exists, display the fancy version."
The first fixes the problem. The second ensures that if somebody messes up
and sends multipart text / html anyway, the reader will still see the plain
text and not the truncated html.
Clear as mud, right?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are the major currently active archives.
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
http://www.egroups.com/list/ev/
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
The search process on each is fairly evident, I think.
There are several other EVDL archives on the web, but most are inactive and
have only archived old messages.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can see both sides of this issue. It's true that some members of the list
do seem to be impatient with newbies and sometimes treat them too roughly.
But I can also see it from their perspective. One DOES get tired of hearing
the same questions over and over again, especially when many of them are
naïve and/or could be answered with a look through the EVDL archives.
I plead for understanding and patience from both sides.
Listers with experience, you might do better to advise new members to check
the archives and then stop for the moment. Especially at the early stages,
this may be better for the newbie than trying your best to answer a question
that's already been addressed many times, and ending up frustrated and/or
annoyed with the person asking.
Newbies, you might do better to browse the archives before posting the
question :
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
http://www.egroups.com/list/ev/
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
Ask followup questions when you aren't sure you understand. Recognize that
there is a certain amount of art in EV building, and you will get different
opinions and perspectives from different members. Not all will match, and
certainly not all will match with what you may already have read or heard.
This is because not list members and EVers have the same experience or the
same goals.
Take it all in, evaluate the arguments, look at what and how each person
uses his or her EV, then decide what advice works for you. After a while
you'll begin to recognize which list members provide information which suits
your goals and needs, and which don't. But just remember that just because
someone's ideas are wrong for you doesn't mean they're wrong for everyone!
Finally, be sure to write about what you did, and how well it worked out.
Hope this helps.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hate to keep this subject going since it's been a week or so already
but... I have been going to greencarcongress.com (gcc) for more than a year
and when issues have come up on this list I have gone back to gcc, found the
article and then posted a link to the article so that it was easy for those
on this list to read the article.
Suggestion #1, to help newbies, maybe posting a link to a specific archive
would be better than telling the newbies to search the archives.
Maybe the newbie will get use to going to the archives and will start going
there on their own to find answers to their questions.
Suggestion #2, David Roden said, "It's true that some members of the list
do seem to be impatient with newbies" it would be better if no comment was
made versus a comment that caused a newbie to stop looking into EVs.
I hope that we can all be patient with each other, because in the future,
and the future is a long, long time, there will be many, many more newbies
asking the same questions over and over again. Which leads to...
Suggestion #3, maybe a FAQ could be added to
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
Just my 2 cents.
Curtis Muhlestein
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
I can see both sides of this issue. It's true that some members of the list
do seem to be impatient with newbies and sometimes treat them too roughly.
But I can also see it from their perspective. One DOES get tired of hearing
the same questions over and over again, especially when many of them are
naïve and/or could be answered with a look through the EVDL archives.
I plead for understanding and patience from both sides.
Listers with experience, you might do better to advise new members to check
the archives and then stop for the moment. Especially at the early stages,
this may be better for the newbie than trying your best to answer a question
that's already been addressed many times, and ending up frustrated and/or
annoyed with the person asking.
Newbies, you might do better to browse the archives before posting the
question :
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
http://www.egroups.com/list/ev/
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
Ask followup questions when you aren't sure you understand. Recognize that
there is a certain amount of art in EV building, and you will get different
opinions and perspectives from different members. Not all will match, and
certainly not all will match with what you may already have read or heard.
This is because not list members and EVers have the same experience or the
same goals.
Take it all in, evaluate the arguments, look at what and how each person
uses his or her EV, then decide what advice works for you. After a while
you'll begin to recognize which list members provide information which suits
your goals and needs, and which don't. But just remember that just because
someone's ideas are wrong for you doesn't mean they're wrong for everyone!
Finally, be sure to write about what you did, and how well it worked out.
Hope this helps.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris there is a nice FAQ hosted on EVParts.com, however, you do bring up
a good point - why not put an obvious link to this on evalbum.com - in nice
big letters up front.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Curtis Muhlestein
Sent: October 20, 2006 10:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
I hate to keep this subject going since it's been a week or so already
but... I have been going to greencarcongress.com (gcc) for more than a year
and when issues have come up on this list I have gone back to gcc, found the
article and then posted a link to the article so that it was easy for those
on this list to read the article.
Suggestion #1, to help newbies, maybe posting a link to a specific archive
would be better than telling the newbies to search the archives.
Maybe the newbie will get use to going to the archives and will start going
there on their own to find answers to their questions.
Suggestion #2, David Roden said, "It's true that some members of the list do
seem to be impatient with newbies" it would be better if no comment was made
versus a comment that caused a newbie to stop looking into EVs.
I hope that we can all be patient with each other, because in the future,
and the future is a long, long time, there will be many, many more newbies
asking the same questions over and over again. Which leads to...
Suggestion #3, maybe a FAQ could be added to
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
Just my 2 cents.
Curtis Muhlestein
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Thin-skinned? Re: Small request
I can see both sides of this issue. It's true that some members of the list
do seem to be impatient with newbies and sometimes treat them too roughly.
But I can also see it from their perspective. One DOES get tired of hearing
the same questions over and over again, especially when many of them are
naïve and/or could be answered with a look through the EVDL archives.
I plead for understanding and patience from both sides.
Listers with experience, you might do better to advise new members to check
the archives and then stop for the moment. Especially at the early stages,
this may be better for the newbie than trying your best to answer a question
that's already been addressed many times, and ending up frustrated and/or
annoyed with the person asking.
Newbies, you might do better to browse the archives before posting the
question :
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
http://www.egroups.com/list/ev/
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/
Ask followup questions when you aren't sure you understand. Recognize that
there is a certain amount of art in EV building, and you will get different
opinions and perspectives from different members. Not all will match, and
certainly not all will match with what you may already have read or heard.
This is because not list members and EVers have the same experience or the
same goals.
Take it all in, evaluate the arguments, look at what and how each person
uses his or her EV, then decide what advice works for you. After a while
you'll begin to recognize which list members provide information which suits
your goals and needs, and which don't. But just remember that just because
someone's ideas are wrong for you doesn't mean they're wrong for everyone!
Finally, be sure to write about what you did, and how well it worked out.
Hope this helps.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to
unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to
digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage
http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 20 Oct 2006 at 18:24, Mike Chancey wrote:
> A cover for the power terminals.
I've used bits of ordinary rubber hose for this purpose, stuff from my
scrapbox. It's been years, so I don't quite recall the details; but it was
probably old radiator hose from an ancient Rabbit, or heater hose from a
Dodge.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 20 Oct 2006 at 10:36, England Nathan-r25543 wrote:
> What happens to a NiCad cell when it is reversed? I hear this is bad so
> does it kill the cell dead to the point it is useless?
In general it's not a good idea to reverse any cell, and with lead batteries
it's generally quite harmful. A reversed cell will never have full capacity
again.
OTOH it seems to be less disastrous for nicads, because their design is so
different. I dunno about the BB600 (or whatever they're called), so don't
take this as a recommendation for them, but here is what Saft say about
their STM nicad modules, designed for EV use :
"In practice, STM blocks can be discharged down to 0 volts. Even occasional
reversal will not harm the blocks. However, it is recommended not to
reverse the blocks regularly, and it should be endeavored to comply with the
cutoff voltages listed in the table."
Current Capacity measured at Cutoff voltage
0.2 C5 5.0v / block 5.0 v / block
0.5 C5 4.75v / block 4.5 v / block
1.0 C5 4.5v / block 4.0 v / block
C5 is the rated capacity in amp-hours for a 5 hour discharge. In this case
it is expressed as a current in amperes. If the C5 capacity is 100 amp
hours, 1.0C5 would be 100 amps. (Confusing, but that's how it's done.)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow!!!! Only $3590. Thats 1/3 the price of my whole conversion. Also more than
any single component I had to buy.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Mike Sandman
> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 6:59 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: After Market Electric power steering box
>
>
> Matt Evans wrote:
> > I saw an ad for this in the latest issue of Muscle Mustangs and fast fords.
> > http://tinyurl.com/yl7cov
> >
>
> does that include a controller. here's another link that may be of interest
> http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/application.jsp?nodeId=02Wcbf07jS1504
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rush,
The EEstor and their patent has come up every week for
the past month, so look back in the recent archives
and you should have a pretty good idea.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:18 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fw: [a-w-h] NEW CERAMIC BATTERY BANK
This is from another newsgroup, who knows, maybe it will work out!
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
To: "A-W-H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:03 PM
Subject: [a-w-h] NEW CERAMIC BATTERY BANK
> FOR THOSE interested.
>
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7033406.pdf
> The basic design is a capacitor a HUGEMONGOUS capacitor that has the
> capacity of being recharged millions of times and can be done in a few
> minutes.
>
> The patent makes reference to a 91 F (Farad) value
>
> The charged voltage could go as high as 3500 volts DC .
>
> The manufacturing process is very close or identical to the small ceramic
> capacitors used in electronics.
>
> So the inventor(s) had a great idea a Hugemoungous capacitor to store the
> necessary energy.
>
> The system may require an up voltage converter to be able to store enough
> power and as well to down convert to the necessary working voltage that
with
> the present electronics the system is quite feasible .
>
> They are directing the ceramic storage medium to automobiles -- 250 miles
> and recharge in about 7 minutes for about U$0.90 dollars.
>
> I hope that this is a good a real product because it would take around 2
to
> 5 years to be able to set the proper manufacturing capabilities for such
> high volume of energy storage banks and not more any engines for most
> usages.
>
> Nando
>
--- End Message ---
