EV Digest 6058
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Ni-Cad Cell Reversal
by "England Nathan-r25543" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Controller co-op
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: open controller designs?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re:EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: dc-dc working
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: S10 bat supports drawings?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: dc-dc working
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: dc-dc working
by "Dave Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: open controller designs?
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: open controller designs?
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: EV controllers? the 5th option...
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: open controller designs?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Brake shoe relining
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Hot Rod Magazine Needs NEDRA photos
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info, I am looking into NiCads from the perspective they
are hard to ruin. Yes everything has it's limit and I would care for
them but I am looking to find out what happens if a cell was to be
reversed. The signs to look for and the penalty paid. With PbA things go
bad very fast but how tough are NiCad batteries if subjected to a little
abuse.
I had considered buying a few BB600's and measuring the capacity then
reveres one to see how much was lost, very similar to Mike's test. If
Mike sacrifices a battery I sure want to know his results and
conditions. Even the plate condition if possible. I do not have any
NiCads batteries right now but I suspect a NiCad that has been reversed
too long would loose capacity due to the chemistry attacking one or both
plates which would quickly degrade them. This is purely suspicion on my
part.
Usually I like to know my limits then stay as far away from that limit
as I practically can. I am learning the limits of NiCad through
testimony right now so thanks for any information you folks have!
Just as another observance: I have noticed that NiCad and NiFe batteries
use KOH electrolyte and are not harmed if run to 0V and both have a 20+
year service life, is this true with NiMh also and other Nickel battery
technologies?
Thanks,
Nate
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerryd
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 6:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Ni-Cad Cell Reversal
Hi Mike, Nate and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "England Nathan-r25543" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Ni-Cad Cell Reversal
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:41:41 -0000
>When I can slow down a minute to stop enjoying all the driving I'm
>doing on them, I plan to put one cell in that is nearly discharged and
>then drive the truck to see what happens when it reverses. I'll report
>the results here.
Don't do that!!!
It's one thing to have a slightly out of balance cell reverse for
a short while as the pack voltage starts dropping fast as the others go
to 0, but to put a dead one, then drive on it at higher amps for several
miles is going to put a lot of energy into that batt, melting it or
worse.
Kind of depends on whether it boils it's water out first or shorts!!
Neither is good and will probably ruin the cell and maybe melt things
around it. BB600's are good but not indestructable!!
Matched cells like the BB600 will stay balanced very well if you
follow their instruction or replace 105% more in them than you took out,
the best way.
The way to reduce watering is charge them to 95% for
4-5 days, then give them a 110-115% overcharge will cut watering 1/2 to
2/3's I found on my SAFT cells like BB600's, only smaller at 16 amphrs I
use in my small bike/trike EV's.
They are over 30 yrs old and still putting out their rated power.
I have 96vdc of BB600's I'm looking for a project to put them in
or use them and some more as a racing batt pack for the Freedom EV. I
just found my stash of copper bars 1/8"x 3/4" x 8'. Now just have to
find a chrome place to plate them of maybe try it myself.
I wonder if you could use SS as sacrificial metal to plate it?
What electrolyte?
BB600 are just about perfect for higher voltage systems replacing
YT's, Orbitals or the buddy paired Hawker systems, costing much less
than any of them while lasting
20+ yrs, added to no capacity loss in cold weather, able to
discharge deeper without life problems or let it sit without charging
without damage.
With good charging you shouldn't need to water but every 2 months
by under charging it a little most of the time. If you design you
battery boxes so it's easy to water, make, get a cap removal tool, then
it's little problem and you get excellent, inexpensive batteries that
last 20+ yrs for a very low price, 1/4 of AGM's over 20 yrs!!
Jerry Dycus
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "England Nathan-r25543"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> What happens to a NiCad cell when it is reversed? I hear this is bad
>> so does it kill the cell dead to the point it is useless?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nate
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10/21/06, Arthur W. Matteson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Questions for the EV-List:
- Any ideas of what to do with the EV-1, that would be legal?
I suggest trying to get it going as an EV with better range and
performance than the EV1. See if you can get Lithium Ion sponsorship
perhaps?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe Borges wrote:
If you want to make it inexpensive, simple and effective i built a 100V600A
out of this design very easily (though i used big mosfets not IGBT and had
to rework current sensing)
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/racingcontroller.html
It has minimal function, but can be made for less than 500$ by every one who
have minimum electronics skill.
Any details on your modifications to that design?
For more complet motor controller with other functions (rev limiter,
contactor/precharge command, LCD with volts/amps on dashboard etc.)
it would be better starting from scratch with a microcontroller as Atmel (my
favorite ;^) or such powerfull/inexpensive chip...
cordialement,
Philippe
A very good overview read on designing/building a simple yet expandable
MCU-based DC motor controller, for any curious types like myself:
http://www.stmicroelectronic.com/stonline/products/literature/an/3714.pdf
I like how the critical protection features (short circuit, overvoltage,
overtempature) are implemented without the use of the MCU. The idea is
to have discreet pass/fail circuits perform those functions (or even the
MOSFET itself)
~ Peanut Gallery ~
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
seems you have not looked hard enough:
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/racingcontroller.html
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: open controller designs?
> I've been looking around quite a bit, and while I've found some
> information, it looks like most people building EVs aren't putting out
> their controller designs. Why isn't there an open controller? Am I just
> unable to find it?
>
> I ran across a few designs on AustinEV.org, but that's about it. There
> is the OSMC, but it's made for robotics.
>
> I'm a fan of open hardware designs, it's silly that everyone has to
> re-invent the electric wheel. If people are interested in collaborating,
> I don't mind setting up a site for it.
>
> On a side note, it looks like I managed to kill electric7.com
> Well, not directly, but I featured it on hackaday - looks like it's been
> down since.
>
> Will
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don,
Yes, the situation was quite different with the MIT Aztec, but you
didn't respond to what I mentioned about the ultra-capacitor powered
Brigham Young University EV1 which has raced at several NEDRA events.
It's performance was even filmed by the Discovery Channel at the 2005
NEDRA Power of DC Race.
BYU made their EV1 run using their own motor and controller system.
They spent quite a bit of time having custom made half-shafts made to
withstand the sheer torque of their car.
I spoke with the head of the GM hydrogen fuel cell program when GM
was actually considering coming out to race. We discussed the BYU EV1
team and he told me (and this is straight fro a GM official) that GM
thought it was a great to see universities like BYU take the EV1 and
retrofit it with their own technologies. He said that is exactly what
their University program was intended for.
GM obviously had no issues with BYU retrofitting the car with their
own propulsion system. To me, having universities use the cars as
platforms to develop their EV propulsion systems, even if it is
limited to racing events, is much better then having them shelved and
collecting dust. It benefits all involved to get these University
cars running.
Some EV1s will serve their purpose in automotive museums and in that
role they will educate the public but there are other EV1s that
should be hacked up and played with.
The BYU car has not only served its purpose racing but has also been
on display at the National Scout Jamboree and at GM.
Chip Gribben
http://www.evadc.org
http://www.nedra.com
On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: October 23, 2006 12:10:58 PM EDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
The situation was a quite different with MITs Aztec Solar Race car
that was
an owned vehicle. This EV1 is under conditions and the contract
states it
cannot be made running. So unless this is allowed by GM it is a
violation of the
agreement terms.
If they make this a running vehicle they risk GM ending the
agreement with
the EV1 going to an environmental crusher is that better?
One option is to wait until GM releases the conditions of the
agreement how
ever long that takes. I am sure arrangements can be made for
storage if that
becomes a problem. Another solution would be to try to obtain written
permission from GM to donate the vehicle to a museum.
With such a rare vehicle it should not be just hacked up. We need
as many of
these around to remind the public what happened when GM had control
of the
NiMH battery and who they sold them to. Want to buy a large NiMH
battery see
what Cobasys has to say.
_http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/faq/faq.html_
(http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/faq/faq.html)
The EV1 with NiMH batteries could go 120 to 150 miles. Someday the
public
will figure out they can use a vehicle like this To have a real
example so the
public can a real car is now this EV1 greatest value. They can
build more
electric cars but only if the demand for them occurs.
Don
Don
In a message dated 10/21/2006 9:23:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Arthur,
Get the EV1 going again. It's been done by Brigham Young University.
They race a Silver GM EV1 powered by ultra-capacitors. They have the
NEDRA record for their class. They came out to Maryland to the Power
of DC to race it back in 2005. It's an awesome car.
If you have the technology and know-how to build your own controller
just do that to get it going again. It would be nice to have another
one on the road again. These cars shouldn't be mothballed.
I'm actually speaking from experience in bringing EVs back from the
dead. Our EAA Chapter, EVA/DC, bought MITs Aztec Solar Race car for
$1.00 and we trailered it back to DC in pieces and spent 2 years
restoring it to running condition. It features a carbon fiber body
with gull-wing doors, Solectria drive train, solar panels and seats 2
people. It also features some used parts from my personal EV
including my K&W charger, Curtis pot box and an old Albright
contactor. Alot of us in the club either donated parts and/or put
time and money into the project to get it running again. We have it
registered with the State of Maryland and are working on getting the
solar array up and running again.
We've raced the car at the NEDRA Power of DC and we get invitations
to show it at various solar and environmental functions around DC.
It is alot of work but well worth it.
Chip Gribben
http://www.evadc.org
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
why not going both ways, suing a standard sized box, standard connections
etc. then "Joe" can have complete plug and drive box AND a
repairable/upgradable/tunable box for tech'ies.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:46 PM
Subject: Re:EV controllers? the 4th option...
> Steve,
>
> I think the list you made is great, but the downside to such a unit I see
> is that if one component breaks, there is no way to keep going with a
jerry
> rig. I'd have to send both units (one component) in for repair losing
> mobility
>
> As most of our cars are now, we probably have a spare controller (or can
> get one from someone else while the one is out for repairs), can build a
> badboy charger, or jumper any of the other subcomponent.
>
> But if the one $5,000 unit goes, we send it away for repairs, it is until
> it is fixed till we're back on the road (unless it is built such that I
can
> open it and tinker with the broken pieces. (though I don't like the idea
of
> opening a controller or charger - too much mystery for me)
>
> Now, True, it makes a conversion eaiser for avg. Joe. But I don't think
> average Joe has the ability to convert a car.
> Lastly, I have a joy of finally knowing how my car works, and how to
> troubleshoot it. I'm not a slave to the gasoline auto mechanics schedule
> and rates to keep my car going.
>
> If something goes wrong, I can pretty much diagnose where the problem is
> and fix myself or know what to send out. Even if it isn't efficient
> time-wise; it is alot of fun.
>
> as far as price. I'm still saving up for a PFC30. Its nice to buy a
> component at a time (spreads the bills further)
> Still, whatever is produced and is good, I'm game for it when I can afford
> it.
>
> -Ben
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> all of the following:
>
> - Charger with BMS control. Built or programmable charging profiles for
> AGM, Gel, Flooded, NiCd, NiMh, LiPoly, etc.
> - Contactor
> - Circuit breaker with remote disconnect hardware.
> - Controller
> - Motor side and battery side fuse "slots" (i.e. add fuse of your liking)
> - Outputs for battery and motor volts & amps gauges. (no external shunts
> needed).
> - Fully isolated DC/DC converter.
> - Programmable Controller driver. Both Hall-effect and 0-5k pot inputs.
> Motor RPM input and output. Other "dash light" outputs at 12V like "Low
> Battery", "Stall", "Overheat", "Charging", etc.
>
> Such a box would vastly lower the amount of knowledge needed to build a
> "from scratch" DC-based car. I know this idea is going to get shot down
> as "impractical" but
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The KLKD fuse has some nice perks: it is a fast-acting fuse rated up to
600 volts DC and in a compact size. However, you can't see inside to
know if it has blown, and I've had troubles obtaining them in small
quantities (esp. the 25 amp size).
If you are looking to prevent melting wires & fire, then a slow(er)
acting fuse type should do the trick. However, any protecting of the
electronics will be lost. If you want to have some chance that the fuse
blow before any silicon gets damaged, you could try adding some form of
in-rush limiting circuit. Maybe.
David Brandt wrote:
Well, I discovered something. A KLKD fuse can blow without any visible
indications. And the inrush current for an Iota 240V DC-DC will blow a 5A KLKD
fuse instantly. I had to short the fuseholder with a test clip (serving as a
fusible link) before inserting a fuse. Then removed the clip and all was well.
Any recommendations with avoiding this problem in the future? Maybe a resistor
could be added across the fuse?
David Brandt
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The box takes all the space between the rails,
ending only 1 or 2 inches in front of the diff/axle
and due to the drive shaft it needed to have a clear
area until almost the top of the box in the middle
and running the length of the box.
I have no drawing, only pictures.
To get enough space in front of the diff, a longbed
was chosen for the US Electricar S10.
Still they made the box extend underneath the cab to
fit all batteries, originally the box contained 52
batteries in two strings. Each string on one side of
the drive shaft.
The box had two layers of batteries:
16 (8 times 2 side by side) in the lower level that
extended under the cab and
10 (5 times 2 side by side) in the upper level.
It is better to use one string of larger batteries
and when self-built you will prefer a square box
iso a protrusion under the cab.
I could not fit my larger batteries in the original
box, so I added a small box behind the rear axle,
leaning against the beam that carries the spare wheel
(I do not carry the spare - it is in my garage and I
have roadside assistance & towing insurance)
The small box carries 4 large batteries, the other 22
are in the main box for the total of 26 (312V system)
Hope this clarifies,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: S10 bat supports drawings?
Does one have sketch/drawings for the rear battery supports they installed
in an S10 (for batteries beneath the bed)?
Able and Willing to email?
I'm not much of a designer nor visionary, so need something to work off of,
especially when my Welding friends go to put it in after I do all the prep
work
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If your problem is inrush then a parallel resistor
does not help - a series resistor maybe.
Altenatively - what is the unloaded draw of the Iota?
You may be able to direct connect it to the battery input
of the controller, so you are after the precharge circuit,
this should take care of slowly ramping voltage, avoiding
the inrush, but you will need a high-current 12V relay
in the output to avoid any significant current draw while
the precharge circuit is trying to get the capacitors
charged up.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David Brandt
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:47 AM
To: EVDLposts
Subject: dc-dc working
Well, I discovered something. A KLKD fuse can blow without any visible
indications. And the inrush current for an Iota 240V DC-DC will blow a 5A
KLKD fuse instantly. I had to short the fuseholder with a test clip
(serving as a fusible link) before inserting a fuse. Then removed the clip
and all was well.
Any recommendations with avoiding this problem in the future? Maybe a
resistor could be added across the fuse?
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Go down to your local electrical supply house, and ask for something called
a "slo-blo" fuse or circuit breaker (thermal switch). They are built to
delay tripping for a couple seconds, usually on motor circuits.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDLposts" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: dc-dc working
Well, I discovered something. A KLKD fuse can blow without any visible
indications. And the inrush current for an Iota 240V DC-DC will blow a 5A
KLKD fuse instantly. I had to short the fuseholder with a test clip
(serving as a fusible link) before inserting a fuse. Then removed the
clip and all was well.
Any recommendations with avoiding this problem in the future? Maybe a
resistor could be added across the fuse?
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
still waiting for that to be rescanned, some of the values are not readable
YES, I have downloaded the images and tried to view them in different
programs (including photoshop), still unable to read some of the resistor
and cap values
if someone has the book, I'd be happy to scan the book in higher resolution
(this one looks like it was scanned in a fax machine (brrr)
plus, lot of the components are obsolete and someone needs to update it
:o(
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: open controller designs?
seems you have not looked hard enough:
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/racingcontroller.html
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: open controller designs?
I've been looking around quite a bit, and while I've found some
information, it looks like most people building EVs aren't putting out
their controller designs. Why isn't there an open controller? Am I just
unable to find it?
I ran across a few designs on AustinEV.org, but that's about it. There
is the OSMC, but it's made for robotics.
I'm a fan of open hardware designs, it's silly that everyone has to
re-invent the electric wheel. If people are interested in collaborating,
I don't mind setting up a site for it.
On a side note, it looks like I managed to kill electric7.com
Well, not directly, but I featured it on hackaday - looks like it's been
down since.
Will
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:16:13 -0400, you wrote:
>Curtis controllers are more like Ford Escorts than BMWs. They're not high
>performance units, but they're entirely serviceable for the average person
>who is building a practical commuter and not a sports car or dragster.
>They're available today, and probably will be tomorrow.
Hay! There is nothing wrong with Ford Escorts! <GRIN>
R. Matt Milliron
1981 Jet Electrica
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Chip
In the email it is pointed out they have no funding.
Using the following as their agreement I do not see a lot of good options.
> As I read the attached letter, the vehicle could be cannibalized for
> parts for another use, or use its components as visual aids in a
> class. The third bullet would suggest we can't get it running "as an
> EV-1".
Don
In a message dated 10/23/2006 1:24:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Don,
Yes, the situation was quite different with the MIT Aztec, but you
didn't respond to what I mentioned about the ultra-capacitor powered
Brigham Young University EV1 which has raced at several NEDRA events.
It's performance was even filmed by the Discovery Channel at the 2005
NEDRA Power of DC Race.
BYU made their EV1 run using their own motor and controller system.
They spent quite a bit of time having custom made half-shafts made to
withstand the sheer torque of their car.
I spoke with the head of the GM hydrogen fuel cell program when GM
was actually considering coming out to race. We discussed the BYU EV1
team and he told me (and this is straight fro a GM official) that GM
thought it was a great to see universities like BYU take the EV1 and
retrofit it with their own technologies. He said that is exactly what
their University program was intended for.
GM obviously had no issues with BYU retrofitting the car with their
own propulsion system. To me, having universities use the cars as
platforms to develop their EV propulsion systems, even if it is
limited to racing events, is much better then having them shelved and
collecting dust. It benefits all involved to get these University
cars running.
Some EV1s will serve their purpose in automotive museums and in that
role they will educate the public but there are other EV1s that
should be hacked up and played with.
The BYU car has not only served its purpose racing but has also been
on display at the National Scout Jamboree and at GM.
Chip Gribben
http://www.evadc.org
http://www.nedra.com
On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: October 23, 2006 12:10:58 PM EDT
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> The situation was a quite different with MITs Aztec Solar Race car
> that was
> an owned vehicle. This EV1 is under conditions and the contract
> states it
> cannot be made running. So unless this is allowed by GM it is a
> violation of the
> agreement terms.
>
> If they make this a running vehicle they risk GM ending the
> agreement with
> the EV1 going to an environmental crusher is that better?
>
> One option is to wait until GM releases the conditions of the
> agreement how
> ever long that takes. I am sure arrangements can be made for
> storage if that
> becomes a problem. Another solution would be to try to obtain written
> permission from GM to donate the vehicle to a museum.
>
> With such a rare vehicle it should not be just hacked up. We need
> as many of
> these around to remind the public what happened when GM had control
> of the
> NiMH battery and who they sold them to. Want to buy a large NiMH
> battery see
> what Cobasys has to say.
>
> _http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/faq/faq.html_
> (http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/faq/faq.html)
>
> The EV1 with NiMH batteries could go 120 to 150 miles. Someday the
> public
> will figure out they can use a vehicle like this To have a real
> example so the
> public can a real car is now this EV1 greatest value. They can
> build more
> electric cars but only if the demand for them occurs.
>
> Don
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 10/21/2006 9:23:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Arthur,
>
> Get the EV1 going again. It's been done by Brigham Young University.
> They race a Silver GM EV1 powered by ultra-capacitors. They have the
> NEDRA record for their class. They came out to Maryland to the Power
> of DC to race it back in 2005. It's an awesome car.
>
> If you have the technology and know-how to build your own controller
> just do that to get it going again. It would be nice to have another
> one on the road again. These cars shouldn't be mothballed.
>
> I'm actually speaking from experience in bringing EVs back from the
> dead. Our EAA Chapter, EVA/DC, bought MITs Aztec Solar Race car for
> $1.00 and we trailered it back to DC in pieces and spent 2 years
> restoring it to running condition. It features a carbon fiber body
> with gull-wing doors, Solectria drive train, solar panels and seats 2
> people. It also features some used parts from my personal EV
> including my K&W charger, Curtis pot box and an old Albright
> contactor. Alot of us in the club either donated parts and/or put
> time and money into the project to get it running again. We have it
> registered with the State of Maryland and are working on getting the
> solar array up and running again.
>
> We've raced the car at the NEDRA Power of DC and we get invitations
> to show it at various solar and environmental functions around DC.
>
> It is alot of work but well worth it.
>
> Chip Gribben
> http://www.evadc.org
> http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I sold a battery charger to Omar Arias for his (cute) Karmann Ghia a
couple of years ago. I warned him that I wasn't sure how well it would
work because it was a new idea (an idea he brought to me, actually).
After him using it for a few hours, it overheated the bridge rectifier
and melted the case. He sent me pictures and I walked him through the
process of adding a larger heatsink. I believe he told me that it
worked correctly in the end, and I would presume he's still using it
unless he's bought another charger. If he wouldn't have been able to
fix it himself, I would've fixed it at no cost (besides shipping to me).
I actually lost money on this venture because I decided to add a current
meter (about $20 overall), but I felt that it was important to donate to
the "EV cause." I also spent many, many hours on the phone with him and
writing E-mails to him, at no charge.
I've certainly learned a lot since then. I also have access to better
testing facilities now, and many of my co-workers are quite good at
power electronics (because that's their job). In fact I've learned a
lot just since starting the job four months ago. I'm also willing to
compromise with you! If I burn out the module, I'll take the loss.
> what would be the voltage range on such a controller?
The maximum operating voltage is for a 156V pack. The module is rated
for 250, so don't exceed 200 under any circumstances. Any lower voltage
is of course fine, down to about 48.
- Arthur
> > I'll seriously build a DC controller if someone sends me a module...
> >
> > http://catalog.rell.com/rellecom/scripts/SkuPage.asp?SKU=341860&PNO=&PNM=
> > You get 800 motor amps peak, for up to one-quarter of the voltage
> > output. Full output is 400 amps (hey, that's up to 60kW...how long do
> > your batteries last then anyway?). The highest battery voltage is 156;
> > but slightly more volts are negotiable when charging.
> >
> > And I'll post all the designs up on your website, Will, if you make one.
> > That includes software and digital pictures of putting the hardware
> > together.
> >
> > I need capacitors too. (16) of Digi-Key's 478-2615-ND. Or should I say
> > AVX's FFV34H0506K:
> > http://tinyurl.com/yxymx8 (link may not work for you, $26.13 each)
> >
> > That's about $700 in major parts. Extras will be about $100 not
> > including the heatsink. I'll gladly do liquid-cooled, but you pay.
> >
> > When I'm done testing, I'll take it apart and send it back to whomever
> > bought me the parts. Then, that person can put it back together with
> > the instructions on the website. This reduces the liability for me.
> >
> > I'm a graduate student, so I have limited time. But I can make deals.
> >
> > - Arthur
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 2006-10-23 at 10:18 -0500, Obrien, Haskell W. wrote:
> >> I've been looking around quite a bit, and while I've found some
> >> information, it looks like most people building EVs aren't putting out
> >> their controller designs. Why isn't there an open controller? Am I just
> >> unable to find it?
> >>
> >> I ran across a few designs on AustinEV.org, but that's about it. There
> >> is the OSMC, but it's made for robotics.
> >>
> >> I'm a fan of open hardware designs, it's silly that everyone has to
> >> re-invent the electric wheel. If people are interested in collaborating,
> >> I don't mind setting up a site for it.
> >>
> >> On a side note, it looks like I managed to kill electric7.com
> >> Well, not directly, but I featured it on hackaday - looks like it's been
> >> down since.
> >>
> >> Will
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking about asking NetGain how many motors he
sold to him for resale.
And it seems he only sells a package...so I have a
controller...I was more interested in his charger...
However there's no feedback about this guy...
perhaps you could try emailing him. I tend not to
construct decent questions?
Thanks!
Michael Golub
Fairbanks
--- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Looks like the results of a well executed homebrew
> project,
> though I would have problems with supplying 24V as
> he
> suggests - from a tap in the pack. That guarantees
> to have
> your batteries unbalanced after a while.
> It sounds like he did not want to add a DC/DC
> converter
> in his controller, so he stuck it to the person
> buying his
> controller.
>
> Just my opinion after looking at it for a few
> seconds,
> others please jump in if you have any real
> experience
> with thic controller.
> Did you ask him how many he already sold and how
> busy
> he is in repairing any?
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private:
> http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD#
> 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 12:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: EV controllers? the 5th option...
>
>
> does anyone know about this guys controller?
>
> http://www.belktronix.com/dcmotorctrl.html
>
> he wants $2k for it and a PFC charger +BMS...
>
> I just like to get some feedback?
>
> --- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > Roger Stockton wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >What DC'ers need is a Curtis-killer, not
> something
> > that tries to compete
> > >with Otmar's already excellent offerings.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Stop it Roger, that makes too much sense!
> > Considering how lame the
> > Curtis is, a 'Curtis Killer' isn't much of a
> > challenge.
> >
> > >We need an updated Raptor 600. Forget the
> > series-parallel shifting and
> > >even the electric reverse; if someone is going
> > direct drive or with dual
> > >motors, they're probably going to want the extra
> > oomph of at least a Z1K
> > >anyway. Forget the 1000+ amps; if someone wants
> > 1000A, they'll buy a
> > >Z1K; if they want more, a Z2K.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Stop it Roger, that makes too much sense!
> >
> > >96V to perhaps 192V is going to cover most anyone
> > who
> > >would have bought this controller instead of a
> > Curtis or being pushed
> > >into a Zilla due to choosing a pack voltage over
> > 144V.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Stop it Roger, that makes too much sense!
> >
> > >My essential spec/feature list for a
> Curtis-Killer
> > is:
> > >
> > >- 600 adjustable battery amps
> > >
> > >- handles at least the range of 96-144V; 156V is
> > almost essential, and
> > >up to ~200V would be even better
> > >
> > >- precharge/contactor control
> > >
> > >- basic fault detection (open/short throttle,
> high
> > pedal lockout)
> > >
> > >- rev limiter (and a tach drive output sure would
> > be nice)
> > >
> > >- integrated heatsink (water-cooled is preferable
> > >
> > >- priced on par with 1231C + appropriate
> heatsink.
> > >
> > >- contactor failure detection
> > >
> > >- controller failure detection & auto contactor
> > dropout
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Roger, how on earth does one come up with such a
> > wonderfully thought-out
> > wish list, and leave out
> > 'silent operation-no Curtis squeal!'???? Or, did
> you
> > assume that no one
> > in their right mind would ever again, design a
> > road-going EV controller
> > to make such an awful, irritating noise?
> >
> > From Mike Sandman:
> >
> > >I just ordered a kit from KTA using a 1231C-7701
> > for my 120v system.
> >
> > I'm curious Mike, did they tell you up front that
> > this controller will
> > cause your EV's drive motor to make an irritating
> > non-varying squeal
> > when you take off or cruise with a light throttle?
> > Did they tell you
> > that this controller has no safety features? Did
> > they tell you it has no
> > automatic precharge, and that if you don't design
> > your own, it could
> > blow up when the line contactor engages and send
> > your EV off at full
> > throttle? Did they tell you it cannot be adjusted
> > for a battery input
> > current limit to protect your battery pack
> > investment? My guess is no to
> > all the above.
> >
> > If it's not too late, you could save a bundle by
> > purchasing a used
> > Curtis 1221B controller. It's a bit less powerful
> at
> > 400 amps, but it's
> > silent and you could get one for maybe $300 if
> > anyone has one available.
> > The money saved would allow you to build a
> precharge
> > circuit and pocket
> > at least $500 cash, too. Better still, a used
> Raptor
> > 600 could be found
> > for maybe $800, is silent, properly cooled, has
> dip
> > switch programming,
> > and 900 amps motor loop current.
> >
> > I understand having to watch one's EV budget, but
> > with one as high as
> > $15k the last area I would have cut costs on would
> > be on the all
> > important motor controller. You may have saved
> > $500-$600 by stepping
> > w-a-ay down to the Curtis, but you gave up a lot
> of
> > features that would
> > have made your conversion more fun, far more
> > pleasant, much smoother,
> > more versatile, twice as powerful, and far safer,
> > and...you gained a lot
> > of negatives as described above.
> >
> > From Steve Powers:
> >
> > >When you get to more than 600 batt amps, you are
> > really killing the pack.
> >
> >
>
=== message truncated ===
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:38 PM, Matthew Milliron wrote:
Hay! There is nothing wrong with Ford Escorts! <GRIN>
Yea, I know that too. Still, I'd rather drive a Geo Metro <G> (plus I
hear they make good EVs :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day Arthur, and All
At 01:15 PM 23/10/06 -0400, you wrote:
I'll seriously build a DC controller if someone sends me a module...
http://catalog.rell.com/rellecom/scripts/SkuPage.asp?SKU=341860&PNO=&PNM=
You get 800 motor amps peak, for up to one-quarter of the voltage
output. Full output is 400 amps (hey, that's up to 60kW...how long do
your batteries last then anyway?). The highest battery voltage is 156;
but slightly more volts are negotiable when charging.
Well now, that's an interesting module - looks as though you could use the
freewheel diode of the "upper" transistor as the motor freewheel diode, and
the transistor of the lower one. That is the type of module and philosophy
I was thinking of when I referred to "much more expensive module" in the
kit-form design I posted earlier.
I think I only have 250A modules in my collecion, I'll have a look what
I've got.
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you live in a fairly good sized city? If so, there may be a brake
religner in your town. (We have one locally... who's done brakes for 30
years and longer... in a 40K sized city... but few folks outside the "know"
know of this company.) You can check brakes or brake religners in the yellow
pages.
You can also check companies that relign brakes for various race/classic
cars. They are listed on a Google search, if you wade through all the
"stuff". Hemmings (.com) has several listed on their online site.
The kewel thing is that you can get all sorts of improved linings, if you
shoes aren't damaged. I put on woven high temp linings on my Freeway.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: " Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 11:04 AM
Subject: Brake shoe relining
> I've trying to get one of my three wheelers back on the road and it needs
> new brake shoes. Unfortunately I used wheels from a slightly rare moped
> that hasn't been made for about 20 years, so the shoes are no longer
> available.
>
> Does anyone know of a good shop that relines small brake shoes?
>
> Failing that, I see I can buy brake shoe lining material at McMasterCarr.
> Anyone know what kind of adhesive I should use to glue this onto the
> shoes with?
>
> Note: these particular shoes only had bonded on lining, no rivets.
>
> Thanks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
Hot Rod magazine is going to spotlight NEDRA in the February issue.
If anyone has any 300 dpi photos which are about 4 x 4 inches from a
recent NEDRA race please let me know. We will make sure you get the
photo credits. Most of the photos I have are all webified for the
NEDRA site so I can't really be much help.
We need the photos by this Thursday, October 26. Hot Rod is working
on that particular story now for the February issue.
The last race at PIR would be great material to use if anyone has
some photos that meet the requirements.
This is what we need photos of:
1) Shot of a NEDRA drag race with cars lined up at the tree
2) A shot of a conversion type car
3) A shot of a typical conversion engine compartment as well as the
battery packs.
For obvious reasons we can't have pictures off a website because most
of those are 72 dpi. So we need high resolution 300 dpi photos for
the magazine.
Just let me know and I will put you in touch with the Associate Editor.
Thanks,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
