EV Digest 6070
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) GE motor designer
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: I can build your controller
by Rocketjosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) SepEx Motor Availability (Was Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...)
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: AGM battery charging
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVer in the Land of Oil...Electric Arctic Adventure!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: AGM battery charging
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on freeway?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: I can build your controller
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: AGM battery charging
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Bill Palter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and Ranger
etc.
by "josjam123" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: I can build your controller
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1,
S10 and Ranger etc.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and
Ranger etc.
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Hot Rod Magazine Needs NEDRA photos
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Battery Chargers
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody interested in designing EV motors for
golf-carts, NEV's etc, I hear there is a job opening
at GE in Fort Wayne, IN. Experianced brush DC motor
design, 6 5/8" up to 13" diameter.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <
The problem is a 1231C is 1600 & the Zilla is 1850. There is no chance
I'd buy the Curtis at that price point. However there is no Zilla to be
had
at that price right now. Hence the problem. Logisystems again is the
only
source for something inbetween. Lawrence Rhodes
O are you saying If I send them money today I'd get a controller is 4 to 6
weeks ? I don't think their moving that fast . I was thinking how much the
controller market is like the EV market , nobody wants to jump in as the
fear of a small market , nobody wants to spend alot of money as " it will be
cheaper later " , everybody thinks it's a good idea " for somebodys else"
so we sit waiting for sombody in there back yard to do something , but don't
make it to expencive , or we won't buy it , .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth , I talked to somebody the other day about this , well kind of , you
would need 2 motors and the controller hooked to each one , you can't just
hook them in series and to one motor , they don't work that way as there
switching on and off and wouldn't be in time along with a lot of other
stuff , . but you could have 2 motors and a controller on each one , then
you would be better off using one 72v pack , or 2 72v packs , not a 144 with
1/2 for one motor and 1/2 for the other as the two different
controllers/motors wouldn't use the same power exactly and battery pack
would be unbalanced.
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:18 AM
Subject: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
A suggestion from the repercussions on the Curtis ('Cursit' was the cute
name that got picked up)
discussion was that I just select an Alltrax 7245 - 72 volts, 450 amps.
Actually, I have one for another low voltage project, almost ready to
deploy, etc.
What about putting two of these controllers in series, then I've got
-144 v
- 450 amps
- no squeal
- current limit programmable
- a generally most excellent Damon Crocket product (as the rep I've
heard/read about;
have yet to see a thread on 'AllTrash' controllers, etc. ...)
Even a 72 volter, I suppose, with using a 4 or 5 gears, might that
allow you decent top speeds?
(just throwing it out for guys who do these calculations in their heads)
though I saw one Saturn conversion a few months back with a 72 volt,
Alltrax system that had top speed advertised as something like 45 -50
mph - so I'm guessing that's probably typical. I would like to at least
be able to get on the highway once in a while, I think.
Thanks,
Seth
((have a nice day, even to all those Curtis people, whoever ye may be ...
aargh!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aZo7hRqpylPI&refer=n
ews
I work for a local NBC affiliate broadcast television station. One
segment of the local newscast we air "Bloomberg Business Report" This
morning's Bloomberg Report stated General Motors plans to compete with
Toyota and it's High Mileage cars with a hybrid and I quote: "with a
battery that recharges at any outlet"
Don B Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wktv.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One example: Electric Smart
1800 lb car, Cd = 0.37, (front tires: 145/65 R 15; rear tires: 175/55 R 15)
L91 Motor / Curtis 400 amp controller, 6 speed gearbox
60 mph, readings indicate 185 Watt-hr / mile (or appx 11KW for 60 miles)
50 mph, readings incate 120 Watt-hr / mile
Average stop/go is 150-170 Watt-hr / mile (usually 0-50 mph)
Pack is small (9Kw), so, only limited "long range" highway testing.
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don wrote:
I work for a local NBC affiliate broadcast television station. One segment of the local newscast we
air "Bloomberg Business Report" This morning's Bloomberg Report stated General Motors
plans to compete with Toyota and it's High Mileage cars with a hybrid and I quote: "with a
battery that recharges at any outlet"
Don B Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wktv.com
This has been circulating in the solid rumor category for awhile, but I
have not seen an official press release yet. A few posts on blogs,
Wired's Autoblog being the most notable.
The rumors say that GM is will have a prototype plug in on display at
the Jan 2007 LA Auto show, with a limited volume production version
available late 2007. This is an extremely optimistic schedule,
especially with GM's limited experience in the hybrid field.
On the plus side, any move by GM toward plug-ins is likely to pressure
Toyota into putting a plug-in Prius (which is known to exist as a
prototype) into production.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a link to the article:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=auXqqiS4Jf_8&refer=home
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 5:50 AM
Subject: GM to Manufacture a Plug in Hybrid?
I work for a local NBC affiliate broadcast television station. One segment
of the local newscast we air "Bloomberg Business Report" This morning's
Bloomberg Report stated General Motors plans to compete with Toyota and
it's High Mileage cars with a hybrid and I quote: "with a battery that
recharges at any outlet"
Don B Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.wktv.com
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have not seen many controllers in China, however, I am sure they are making
some. I am not interested in a Chinese engineered controller.
I want to use a design done by someone with a lot of EV experience, and use my
contacts to make it cheap and fast. The products my factory makes right now are
similar in scope as a controller, they have a SMT machine, and many skilled
employees who can assemble anything.
All I need to get something made is a good schematic, Gerber Files, a BIll of
materials and some help testing the prototypes.
Anyone interested in partnering up to get a good controller made??
Josh
mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I did pick up a curtis knock-off that was
made in
China. However, it's not exactly the same. I tried to
ge upgraded at Logisystems and they couldn't do it.
Would you know if they are making controllers
currently in china? I converted 86 toyota pu. I'm
Fairbanks,ak
Michael
--- Rocketjosh wrote:
> I have been following the controller discussion and
> I
> want to help. I work in the consumer electronics
> industry and
> think that I can be of service. I have visited many
> factories in China
> and work closely with overseas manufacturers and
> suppliers.
>
> Ive got a degree in Aerospace engineering, I can do
> CAD design.
>
> If you design a good controller, I can get it built
> - quick and cheap. The volumes do not matter right
> now, I can source parts and labor overseas. Its my
> job.
>
> Who wants to work together?
>
> Josh
>
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is a very good question. I do not know of any other than the one that is
in my car. Would it be hard for Jim Husted, ADC, D+D or Warp to make them?
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Do you have a source for affordable, EV size, SepEX motors?
> The controller is not much good without them.
>
> > a copy of the schematics for the motor controller for my EVCort (which
> > unfortunately went south for the winter).
> >
> > It is a Sep Ex controller 108V/400A. It has up to 200A regen, slow on fast
> >
> > In all of this discussion of open DC Controllers and how also the desire
> > for
> > regen and so on, I was thinking, Well, it has been done, I have it right
> > here
> > in my garage and the design is actually about 15 - 20 years old.
> >
> > If it was redesigned to use modern components it could probably be alot
> > smaller
> > and lighter. (It is about 1'x1'x3' with the huge heat sink and must weigh
> > close
> > to 100lbs.) And could even have higher voltage/amperage levels.
> >
> > It does have 4 chopper circuits though, besides the other controll
> > circuitry,
> > and banks and banks of paralleled power transistors. I suppose it really
> > is
> > tens of thousands of dollars of engineering as these vehicles were
> > provided as
> > EV studies, especially for the batteries, and built as part of a DOE
> > program.
> >
> > But now that the company that built them no longer exists (Soleq) and the
> > chief
> > engineer has passed away, could anything be done with the designs?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chet
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't answer the second question. The charger has an ammeter. It stayed
steady at 6A. Again, I expected it to decline. I really don't want to destroy
the batteries. They have been sitting for a year so could use exercising, I'm
sure.
----- Original Message ----
From: Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:13:23 AM
Subject: Re: AGM battery charging
It is a war surplus (actually 2 of them in series) which have huge multitap
transformers. I can set the voltage. The amperage adjusts itself. I guess my
concern is the drop in voltage. I did not expect it and don't have any idea
what would cause it.
Could the acceptance voltage be as high as 193.3v in a 144v pack?
Thanx,
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 9:53:33 AM
Subject: RE: AGM battery charging
>From what you describe, I think you have only completed the bulk stage and
not done the absorption stage of charging. If this is the case, your
batteries are not fully charged. Are you able to measure the charge current
as well as the voltage?
Once the batteries reach their acceptance voltage, then it needs to be kept
at this voltage until the current drops below 0.5amps over an hour. Is your
manual charger just a "bad boy" transformer charger, or can it do CC or CV?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: October 27, 2006 6:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: AGM battery charging
Thanks. Before I got this I started charging at 6A. Voltage went to 189.7
after a couple hours. An hour later to 191.9. 20 mins to 192.1. 12 min later
193.3. 6 min after that it dropped to 192.0. 2 min after that it dropped to
191.9 and I turned off the charger. David Roden didn't mention that the
voltage would decrease. (Somebody reportrd that their terminal voltage would
be 186-193v so I accepted the values I was seing as ok.)
FWIW, I took the car for a ride. Neat!
Thanx,
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:17:55 PM
Subject: RE: AGM battery charging
I have been charging my AGMs with full current (10A) until they hit the
point where they could start gassing at 13.6V per battery which is 163V for
your pack.
Hold it there until the amps are below 1A or the timer runs out (I charge
between 12 AM and 7 AM every night on lowest rate)
>From time to time you must do an equalization charge whereby
there is risk that the batteries vent (sealed battery is not completely
sealed) and I take them up to 14.8V per battery, in your case 178V at a
constant current of 1/50 of capacity. That is 1.3A for you.
When the voltage has reached the max and current tapers down, you can hold
it there for some time like 1/2 hour and then stop this charging pattern and
go back to the settings for the max current to 163V only for next night.
NOTE that regulators are a good idea on AGM as I have damaged
3 in my pack that apparently slowly drifted away from the others or that
happened to have a lower capacity.
I did get 3 replacements though, I still need to put them in but I am
driving the car every day and have not found time yet. Range is down due to
the 3 stinkers but still usable.
All other 23 batteries seem to like each other ;-) I have 4800 miles on my
pack now, since January.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 12:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: AGM battery charging
Could someone tell me how to charge 144 volts of AGMs. I have a manual
charger. I can adjust the voltage and can measure the amps.
The batteries are 33Ah (20 hr rate) Dynasty UPS12-140FRs. I've buddied
pairs, so I have 24 of them installed. I realize I can't expect much range
and they are a long way from new, but after sitting for a year they were all
at 12.2-12.3v. Seems like they should prove the concept.
I learned from Mr. Roden to charged them until the voltage stops increasing
from hour to hour.Other than that, the archives are pretty confusing. What
I'd really like are some specifics like charge at x amps until ... then set
voltage at y until amps drops below z- or something like that.
I know that the best answer is buy a proper charger. I expect these
batteries won't last forever and they will probably be replaced with flooded
8v. Buying another charger doesn't seem a good option under the
circumstances. But I don't want to kill these either.
Thanks,
storm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Oct 2006 at 12:21, Roland Wiench wrote:
> Also if you want to wait about 20 to 30 years, you may get a magnetic motor
> that has auto changing poles that requires no main battery pack. The
> Liverpool
> Labs in England are now running small proto types on this design.
This sounds pretty dodgy to me. Did you read about this in Electrifying
Times?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Oct 2006 at 15:50, Rush wrote:
> Did you happen to do the cents/mile for a Trojan T-125?
No, but I'd expect it to be just slightly higher than the US-2200. Maybe
2.5 cents per mile?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Oct 2006 at 13:29, Cor van de Water wrote:
> The Prius is able to drive electric only in the city, so
> it almost is a gas-assist EV.
Sorry, I don't agree. All the energy to run that car comes from gasoline.
It's a really clever design, but it's not an EV.
Add more batteries and a charger. Then we'll talk. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Oct 2006 at 21:52, John Wayland wrote:
> Its been c-c-c-cold, icy, and in a word white.
So how are those ceramic EV heaters working for you up there? <big grin>
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Oct 2006 at 12:13, Storm Connors wrote:
> Could someone tell me how to charge 144 volts of AGMs. I have a manual
> charger. I can adjust the voltage and can measure the amps.
That's not a match made in heaven. Like people, similar intelligence makes
for more harmonious home life. Smart AGMs and gel batteries need smart
chargers; big dumb flooded batteries are generally quite satisfied with big
dumb chargers.
You will have to supply the charging smarts yourself. That limits other
things you can spend your smarts on. Seriously.
> charge them until the voltage stops increasing from hour to hour.
Part of the DV/DT algorithm, but not the whole story.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Oct 2006 at 16:33, Edward Ang wrote:
> I posted in Dec 2003 to this group on the sudject of "Mind Your
> Units". The message is available here.
>
> http://www.evsource.com/articles/mind_your_units.php
>
Nicely done. Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
Josh wrote :
> I work in the consumer electronics industry ... I have visited
> many factories in China and work closely with overseas
> manufacturers and suppliers.
Warning, rant ahead!
Great, just what we need, twenty cent an hour Chinese sweatshop labor to
bury the good folks on the list who make their living, such as it is,
building high quality EV components.
Josh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since (I think) you're a newbie
here, but how about a little concern for guys like Rich and Otmar, our
friends who work with list members to build what they want and produce a
high quality product? Rich at least has gone into debt to do this.
These guys are producing handbuilt products at mass-production prices, and
damn reasonable ones at that. I doubt that they're getting rich on it, but
they are doing us a real service. Take their living away from them and you
can forget them ever taking part in EVs as a business again.
Sorry if I seem a bit annoyed about this - I am. If we had nobody at all
building the components we need, it would be a different matter, but we are
lucky to have people who do - and whom we can literally call up for help and
support (try that with the guys in China).
I don't want a fight, and I don't want to seem ungrateful, but I really wish
you would take your Chinese manufacturing connections somewhere else and use
them for something else.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't blame you for turning the charger off, that is 16.5V per battery!
Do you have the manufacturer suggested charging specs? I could not find
them on the net (but didn't search too hard). It will say something like:
- charge at a constant current until the voltage reaches 2.3 volts per cell
at 20 degrees C
- charge at 2.3 volts per cell until the current drops off to less than 1
amp
- adjust the charge voltage depending on the temperature.
Note: this 2.3volts per cell, is just taken from thin air - you should get
the manufacturers specs for your battery.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: October 27, 2006 8:47 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: AGM battery charging
I didn't answer the second question. The charger has an ammeter. It stayed
steady at 6A. Again, I expected it to decline. I really don't want to
destroy the batteries. They have been sitting for a year so could use
exercising, I'm sure.
----- Original Message ----
From: Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:13:23 AM
Subject: Re: AGM battery charging
It is a war surplus (actually 2 of them in series) which have huge multitap
transformers. I can set the voltage. The amperage adjusts itself. I guess my
concern is the drop in voltage. I did not expect it and don't have any idea
what would cause it.
Could the acceptance voltage be as high as 193.3v in a 144v pack?
Thanx,
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 9:53:33 AM
Subject: RE: AGM battery charging
>From what you describe, I think you have only completed the bulk stage
>and
not done the absorption stage of charging. If this is the case, your
batteries are not fully charged. Are you able to measure the charge current
as well as the voltage?
Once the batteries reach their acceptance voltage, then it needs to be kept
at this voltage until the current drops below 0.5amps over an hour. Is your
manual charger just a "bad boy" transformer charger, or can it do CC or CV?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: October 27, 2006 6:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: AGM battery charging
Thanks. Before I got this I started charging at 6A. Voltage went to 189.7
after a couple hours. An hour later to 191.9. 20 mins to 192.1. 12 min later
193.3. 6 min after that it dropped to 192.0. 2 min after that it dropped to
191.9 and I turned off the charger. David Roden didn't mention that the
voltage would decrease. (Somebody reportrd that their terminal voltage would
be 186-193v so I accepted the values I was seing as ok.)
FWIW, I took the car for a ride. Neat!
Thanx,
storm
----- Original Message ----
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:17:55 PM
Subject: RE: AGM battery charging
I have been charging my AGMs with full current (10A) until they hit the
point where they could start gassing at 13.6V per battery which is 163V for
your pack.
Hold it there until the amps are below 1A or the timer runs out (I charge
between 12 AM and 7 AM every night on lowest rate)
>From time to time you must do an equalization charge whereby
there is risk that the batteries vent (sealed battery is not completely
sealed) and I take them up to 14.8V per battery, in your case 178V at a
constant current of 1/50 of capacity. That is 1.3A for you.
When the voltage has reached the max and current tapers down, you can hold
it there for some time like 1/2 hour and then stop this charging pattern and
go back to the settings for the max current to 163V only for next night.
NOTE that regulators are a good idea on AGM as I have damaged
3 in my pack that apparently slowly drifted away from the others or that
happened to have a lower capacity.
I did get 3 replacements though, I still need to put them in but I am
driving the car every day and have not found time yet. Range is down due to
the 3 stinkers but still usable.
All other 23 batteries seem to like each other ;-) I have 4800 miles on my
pack now, since January.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Storm Connors
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 12:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: AGM battery charging
Could someone tell me how to charge 144 volts of AGMs. I have a manual
charger. I can adjust the voltage and can measure the amps.
The batteries are 33Ah (20 hr rate) Dynasty UPS12-140FRs. I've buddied
pairs, so I have 24 of them installed. I realize I can't expect much range
and they are a long way from new, but after sitting for a year they were all
at 12.2-12.3v. Seems like they should prove the concept.
I learned from Mr. Roden to charged them until the voltage stops increasing
from hour to hour.Other than that, the archives are pretty confusing. What
I'd really like are some specifics like charge at x amps until ... then set
voltage at y until amps drops below z- or something like that.
I know that the best answer is buy a proper charger. I expect these
batteries won't last forever and they will probably be replaced with flooded
8v. Buying another charger doesn't seem a good option under the
circumstances. But I don't want to kill these either.
Thanks,
storm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am flying to boston today....
I haven't set up a machine yet. I figured I would let you get all of you
stuff suituated
first...I am back on the sixth Ill start putting it together then.
Bill
___
Sent with SnapperMail
www.snappermail.com
...... Original Message .......
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:20:07 -0400 "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <
>
>> The problem is a 1231C is 1600 & the Zilla is 1850. There is no
chance
>> I'd buy the Curtis at that price point. However there is no Zilla to be
>> had
>> at that price right now. Hence the problem. Logisystems again is the
>> only
>> source for something inbetween. Lawrence Rhodes
>O are you saying If I send them money today I'd get a controller is 4 to 6
>weeks ? I don't think their moving that fast . I was thinking how much the
>controller market is like the EV market , nobody wants to jump in as the
>fear of a small market , nobody wants to spend alot of money as " it will
be
>cheaper later " , everybody thinks it's a good idea " for somebodys else"
>so we sit waiting for sombody in there back yard to do something , but
don't
>make it to expencive , or we won't buy it , .
>Steve Clunn
>
>
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks, I am wondering if anyone here has experience in using these
batteries in their EV project. I would like to know details like
charger info, what type of BMS and who makes them etc. Also there is
a big price difference between the tested charged ones and untested
uncharged ones. If one buys the untested ones, what is the average
yield form it? Any help and info will be appreciated, thanks.
JJ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aw come on Dave. Someone send him a set of schematics and let him
discover on his own that it takes more than a set of schemtics to build an
EV size motor controller ;-)
> Josh wrote :
>
>> I work in the consumer electronics industry ... I have visited
>> many factories in China and work closely with overseas
>> manufacturers and suppliers.
>
> Warning, rant ahead!
>
> Great, just what we need, twenty cent an hour Chinese sweatshop labor to
> bury the good folks on the list who make their living, such as it is,
> building high quality EV components.
>
> Josh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since (I think) you're a
> newbie
> here, but how about a little concern for guys like Rich and Otmar, our
> friends who work with list members to build what they want and produce a
> high quality product? Rich at least has gone into debt to do this.
>
> These guys are producing handbuilt products at mass-production prices, and
> damn reasonable ones at that. I doubt that they're getting rich on it,
> but
> they are doing us a real service. Take their living away from them and
> you
> can forget them ever taking part in EVs as a business again.
>
> Sorry if I seem a bit annoyed about this - I am. If we had nobody at all
> building the components we need, it would be a different matter, but we
> are
> lucky to have people who do - and whom we can literally call up for help
> and
> support (try that with the guys in China).
>
> I don't want a fight, and I don't want to seem ungrateful, but I really
> wish
> you would take your Chinese manufacturing connections somewhere else and
> use
> them for something else.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On 26 Oct 2006 at 12:21, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
>> Also if you want to wait about 20 to 30 years, you may get a magnetic
>> motor
>> that has auto changing poles that requires no main battery pack. The
>> Liverpool
>> Labs in England are now running small proto types on this design.
>
> This sounds pretty dodgy to me. Did you read about this in Electrifying
> Times?
>
LOL, it really gets me that almost everyone accepts that perpetual motion
machines are impossible.
But hook a perpetual motion machine up to a car or a generator so that it
not only runs forever, but it produces useful work as a by product...well,
that's entirely reasonable, why wouldn't it work?
Sheesh.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, that don't make these anymore, so any you find (and where the heck
did you find any?) are probably 6-8 years old and may very well be near
the end of their useful life.
Personally, I'd prefer ones that have been tested to insure they still
work. The untested, uncharged ones might yield somewhere in the
neighborhood of zero.
> Hi folks, I am wondering if anyone here has experience in using these
> batteries in their EV project. I would like to know details like
> charger info, what type of BMS and who makes them etc. Also there is
> a big price difference between the tested charged ones and untested
> uncharged ones. If one buys the untested ones, what is the average
> yield form it? Any help and info will be appreciated, thanks.
>
> JJ
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Well, that don't make these anymore, so any you find (and where the
heck
> did you find any?) are probably 6-8 years old and may very well be
near
> the end of their useful life.
> Personally, I'd prefer ones that have been tested to insure they
still
> work. The untested, uncharged ones might yield somewhere in the
> neighborhood of zero.
>
But think of what a find if you discovered a cache of several hundred
Panasonic 95AH cells - even if untested and never charged, it would be
worth evaluating each one for potential use, since they aren't suppose
to have the same calender issues. Then again, it's most likely a
pipedream.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don, at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This morning's Bloomberg Report stated General Motors plans to compete
with Toyota and it's High Mileage cars with a hybrid and I quote: "with
a battery that recharges at any outlet"
That is Exciting news if TRUE... Not going to hold my breath --as they
say...
But here is another question: (More CURRENT ! )
Last Monday, Oct. 9th, our NBC affiliate King-5 here in Seattle, aired
the most POSITIVE story on the Tesla Roadster I have ever seen. And I
have been monitoring the Media on EVs for over 25 YEARS.. One of our
members just happened to SNAG in on his VCR. (very low quality however...)
I called our local station, looking for a DVD copy, but it seems the
reporter, Natily Morallis (sp) is out of the So.Cal or Bay area, and it
was not a local piece.
I have searched YouTube, and Google Video, to see if any one else
captured it.. to no avail.
So here is my question to Don...Being on the INSIDE... Do you have the
where-with-all to find it and receive a copy for our EV Community to SEE
????
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip
I sent you an email sometime in the last year about pictures I had taken at
Hagerstown 2 years
ago. If it's not too late, and you still need photos, I can send you those.
Dave Cover
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Hot Rod magazine is going to spotlight NEDRA in the February issue.
>
> If anyone has any 300 dpi photos which are about 4 x 4 inches from a
> recent NEDRA race please let me know. We will make sure you get the
> photo credits. Most of the photos I have are all webified for the
> NEDRA site so I can't really be much help.
>
> We need the photos by this Thursday, October 26. Hot Rod is working
> on that particular story now for the February issue.
>
> The last race at PIR would be great material to use if anyone has
> some photos that meet the requirements.
>
> This is what we need photos of:
>
> 1) Shot of a NEDRA drag race with cars lined up at the tree
> 2) A shot of a conversion type car
> 3) A shot of a typical conversion engine compartment as well as the
> battery packs.
>
> For obvious reasons we can't have pictures off a website because most
> of those are 72 dpi. So we need high resolution 300 dpi photos for
> the magazine.
>
> Just let me know and I will put you in touch with the Associate Editor.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
I have used InterActor Professional Series chargers for this purpose a couple
thousand times with good luck.
Jeff Major
Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Any idea who manufactures or where I can locate a "smart" battery charger
capable of charging individual 6 or 12 volt SLA or AGM/Gel/Deep Cycle
Batteries. When I say "smart" I mean one that will taper off or occasionally do
an equalizing charge. Looking to safely charge individual batteries-not the
entire pack. Suggestions?
Thanks
Don B. Davidson III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
