EV Digest 6071
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "John Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: 2X Alltrax = Curtis ?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and
Ranger etc.
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: I can build your controller
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: nickel iron battery performance
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV digest 6059
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: inexpensive, homebuilt, Contactor Controller...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and
Ranger etc.
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: AGM battery charging
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: I can build your controller
by Rocketjosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Avcon problem
by JS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: SepEx Motor Availability (Was Re: EV controllers? the 4th option...)
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10 and
Ranger etc.
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Electronic Circuit Design and Simulation Software
by Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: I can build your controller
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Anyone have advanced dc motor specs handy?
by "Obrien, Haskell W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: How watts per hour for typical car at 60 miles per hour on
freeway?
by "Michael" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Non EVDL member has Question on ? Etek Motor Brushes
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Blomberg story on GM misses EV1 point
by doug korthof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Gentlemen, when you talk about swapping out an ICE and putting in the
electric through the existing transmission, aren't you already talking about
the low tech solution? Folks have been swapping out their ICE for other
brand ICE for years. In some cases they swapped out the transmission as
well, but many rides were done with a transmission adapter plate and an
altered/machined clutch and pressure plate setup. Kennedy Engineering
Products will make you an adapter plate and clutch setup to put just about
any ICE motor in anything. Don't know if they have done any electric
adapters.
It costs more now to do quality machining than it used to. There was a time
when every town had an engine machine shop to rebuild engines. That is not
as common anymore but the products we get now are much better. The
tolerances closer, and the cost higher. But it is an age old method. I
read on the web a diary of a young man who converted is Datsun Z car to
electric. It took him three tries I think to machine the adapter between
the motor and transmission. But he did it. Not high tech.
Low cost high tech? I like the solution presented in one of the posts where
the motor manufacturer designed the motor with a standard bolt circle for a
common transmission. Lets pick a bullet proof common fwd transmission that
will handle the torque and do what the ICE folks did forty years ago, adapt
the transmission mounts in the vehicle to the new transmission. Yeah, ok,
we have to adapt axle shafts too. Don't stop me I am on a roll. Now lets
sweet talk the motor manufacturer to mate to our transmission. Then we go
to the local wrecking yard and pull that tranny for our conversion or buy a
rebuilt. Or, let's get a machine shop to make a standard kit to adapt to
that transmission from ADC, WARP, etc.
Where the rub is for the folks that want to use a forklift motor or some
other off the shelf budget motor. You get a non-standard motor, and you
have to pay more for a one off adapter. Just the thoughts of a retired Navy
mechanical engineer. But I am probably all wet!
--
John Cooper
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
> On 26 Oct 2006 at 12:21, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > Also if you want to wait about 20 to 30 years, you may get a magnetic
> > motor
> > that has auto changing poles that requires no main battery pack. The
> > Liverpool
> > Labs in England are now running small proto types on this design.
>
> This sounds pretty dodgy to me. Did you read about this in Electrifying
> Times?
No, I read this in the science section in are daily news paper. There was
another article about a new design of a plastic motor that will be use to
turn eight each 8 foot props for a aircraft for around the world attempt,
by the same balloon people.
Roland
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Chip,
You are misinformed about the BYU EV1. It uses the stock EV1 motor.
Jeff Major
Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Don,
Yes, the situation was quite different with the MIT Aztec, but you
didn't respond to what I mentioned about the ultra-capacitor powered
Brigham Young University EV1 which has raced at several NEDRA events.
It's performance was even filmed by the Discovery Channel at the 2005
NEDRA Power of DC Race.
BYU made their EV1 run using their own motor and controller system.
They spent quite a bit of time having custom made half-shafts made to
withstand the sheer torque of their car.
I spoke with the head of the GM hydrogen fuel cell program when GM
was actually considering coming out to race. We discussed the BYU EV1
team and he told me (and this is straight fro a GM official) that GM
thought it was a great to see universities like BYU take the EV1 and
retrofit it with their own technologies. He said that is exactly what
their University program was intended for.
GM obviously had no issues with BYU retrofitting the car with their
own propulsion system. To me, having universities use the cars as
platforms to develop their EV propulsion systems, even if it is
limited to racing events, is much better then having them shelved and
collecting dust. It benefits all involved to get these University
cars running.
Some EV1s will serve their purpose in automotive museums and in that
role they will educate the public but there are other EV1s that
should be hacked up and played with.
The BYU car has not only served its purpose racing but has also been
on display at the National Scout Jamboree and at GM.
Chip Gribben
http://www.evadc.org
http://www.nedra.com
On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: October 23, 2006 12:10:58 PM EDT
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Playing with an EV-1 and/or GM... Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> The situation was a quite different with MITs Aztec Solar Race car
> that was
> an owned vehicle. This EV1 is under conditions and the contract
> states it
> cannot be made running. So unless this is allowed by GM it is a
> violation of the
> agreement terms.
>
> If they make this a running vehicle they risk GM ending the
> agreement with
> the EV1 going to an environmental crusher is that better?
>
> One option is to wait until GM releases the conditions of the
> agreement how
> ever long that takes. I am sure arrangements can be made for
> storage if that
> becomes a problem. Another solution would be to try to obtain written
> permission from GM to donate the vehicle to a museum.
>
> With such a rare vehicle it should not be just hacked up. We need
> as many of
> these around to remind the public what happened when GM had control
> of the
> NiMH battery and who they sold them to. Want to buy a large NiMH
> battery see
> what Cobasys has to say.
>
> _http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/faq/faq.html_
> (http://www.cobasys.com/pdf/faq/faq.html)
>
> The EV1 with NiMH batteries could go 120 to 150 miles. Someday the
> public
> will figure out they can use a vehicle like this To have a real
> example so the
> public can a real car is now this EV1 greatest value. They can
> build more
> electric cars but only if the demand for them occurs.
>
> Don
>
> Don
>
> In a message dated 10/21/2006 9:23:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Arthur,
>
> Get the EV1 going again. It's been done by Brigham Young University.
> They race a Silver GM EV1 powered by ultra-capacitors. They have the
> NEDRA record for their class. They came out to Maryland to the Power
> of DC to race it back in 2005. It's an awesome car.
>
> If you have the technology and know-how to build your own controller
> just do that to get it going again. It would be nice to have another
> one on the road again. These cars shouldn't be mothballed.
>
> I'm actually speaking from experience in bringing EVs back from the
> dead. Our EAA Chapter, EVA/DC, bought MITs Aztec Solar Race car for
> $1.00 and we trailered it back to DC in pieces and spent 2 years
> restoring it to running condition. It features a carbon fiber body
> with gull-wing doors, Solectria drive train, solar panels and seats 2
> people. It also features some used parts from my personal EV
> including my K&W charger, Curtis pot box and an old Albright
> contactor. Alot of us in the club either donated parts and/or put
> time and money into the project to get it running again. We have it
> registered with the State of Maryland and are working on getting the
> solar array up and running again.
>
> We've raced the car at the NEDRA Power of DC and we get invitations
> to show it at various solar and environmental functions around DC.
>
> It is alot of work but well worth it.
>
> Chip Gribben
> http://www.evadc.org
> http://www.nedra.com
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know about the T-125's, but my T-145's are now running for the last
5 years at 3.89 cents a mile. If I get another 5 years out of them, then
they will be 1.94 cents a mile.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Floodies/Batt. murder mystery/Thanks to Roger & Roland
> On 26 Oct 2006 at 15:50, Rush wrote:
>
> > Did you happen to do the cents/mile for a Trojan T-125?
>
> No, but I'd expect it to be just slightly higher than the US-2200. Maybe
> 2.5 cents per mile?
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
> the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Then why don't you talk to the Liverpool scientist in England that what you
are doing does not work.
According the news paper article I read some time back, that a magnet
constructed with a combination of three elements when rotated through a
strong magnet field, changes it poles on every turn.
These will be produce for disc drives for a lap tops to begin with.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Low Tech EV Drivetrains
>
> > On 26 Oct 2006 at 12:21, Roland Wiench wrote:
> >
> >> Also if you want to wait about 20 to 30 years, you may get a magnetic
> >> motor
> >> that has auto changing poles that requires no main battery pack. The
> >> Liverpool
> >> Labs in England are now running small proto types on this design.
> >
> > This sounds pretty dodgy to me. Did you read about this in Electrifying
> > Times?
> >
>
> LOL, it really gets me that almost everyone accepts that perpetual motion
> machines are impossible.
> But hook a perpetual motion machine up to a car or a generator so that it
> not only runs forever, but it produces useful work as a by product...well,
> that's entirely reasonable, why wouldn't it work?
>
> Sheesh.
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Myers wrote:
> A suggestion from the repercussions on the Curtis ('Cursit'
> was the cute name that got picked up) discussion was that
> I just select an Alltrax 7245 - 72 volts, 450 amps.
> What about putting two of these controllers in series,
I'd consider a 144V pack and a single 7245. Arrange the pack as 2 72V
strings and parallel them at lower speeds so the controller runs of the
72V pack and all batteries are discharged evenly. Above some speed,
switch the packs in series and leave the controller connected across
only the top 72V segment. This allows the controller to vary voltage to
the motor between 72V and 144V.
There may be issues with how well the current limit would work with the
controller 'floating' at 72V; if I recall correctly, Lee Hart described
this sort of arrangement in the past, but using a Curtis.
You might also simply consider a 1231C. Yes, it will whine at light
throttle, but in my experience this is limited to very slow creeping
around speeds, but it will give you 550A briefly when cool and is rated
for up to 144V packs.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Opposite to NICAD virtualy undestructible and infinite life :^)
NIMH have some calendar issues and don't like to stay uncharged for too
long, fragile high tech batteries...
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: NiMH batteries from GM Ovonics or Panasonic used in EV1, S10
and Ranger etc.
> > Well, that don't make these anymore, so any you find (and where the
> heck
> > did you find any?) are probably 6-8 years old and may very well be
> near
> > the end of their useful life.
> > Personally, I'd prefer ones that have been tested to insure they
> still
> > work. The untested, uncharged ones might yield somewhere in the
> > neighborhood of zero.
> >
>
> But think of what a find if you discovered a cache of several hundred
> Panasonic 95AH cells - even if untested and never charged, it would be
> worth evaluating each one for potential use, since they aren't suppose
> to have the same calender issues. Then again, it's most likely a
> pipedream.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a great opportunity to get some AC systems made cheaply.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rocketjosh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have not seen many controllers in China, however, I am sure they
are making some. I am not interested in a Chinese engineered controller.
>
> I want to use a design done by someone with a lot of EV experience,
and use my contacts to make it cheap and fast. The products my factory
makes right now are similar in scope as a controller, they have a SMT
machine, and many skilled employees who can assemble anything.
>
> All I need to get something made is a good schematic, Gerber Files,
a BIll of materials and some help testing the prototypes.
>
> Anyone interested in partnering up to get a good controller made??
>
> Josh
>
>
> mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I did pick up a curtis knock-off
that was made in
> China. However, it's not exactly the same. I tried to
> ge upgraded at Logisystems and they couldn't do it.
> Would you know if they are making controllers
> currently in china? I converted 86 toyota pu. I'm
> Fairbanks,ak
> Michael
>
> --- Rocketjosh wrote:
>
> > I have been following the controller discussion and
> > I
> > want to help. I work in the consumer electronics
> > industry and
> > think that I can be of service. I have visited many
> > factories in China
> > and work closely with overseas manufacturers and
> > suppliers.
> >
> > Ive got a degree in Aerospace engineering, I can do
> > CAD design.
> >
> > If you design a good controller, I can get it built
> > - quick and cheap. The volumes do not matter right
> > now, I can source parts and labor overseas. Its my
> > job.
> >
> > Who wants to work together?
> >
> > Josh
> >
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill & Nancy wrote:
I am considering buying some used 200 ah nickel iron batteries to use
in a 96 volt ev with a GE 9" motor. What kind of performance can I
expect from these batteries? I have read that they give up their charge
slowly. It will have a curtic 400 amp controller.
Used batteries must always be tested before you know if they are any
good. They say there are liars, damned liars, and battery salesmen :-)
Don't buy unless you can test them, and return if bad!
Nickel iron has the potential for very long life; however, they can be
ruined like anything else from abuse and carelessness. Broken terminals,
cracked or warped cases, overheated, overcharged, run dry, wrong
electrolyte put in, etc. are all possible.
The only source of new nickel iron I know of is China. This adds the
potential for low quality. The ones I've seen are intended for
stationary use, to provide backup power in rural or off-grid locations
when the main power source (generator, wind, solar) is unavailable.
These cells are optimized for low currents, and so are heavy for the
amount of current you can draw (similar to golf cart batteries). You
could probably build a low-performance "lead sled" type of EV with them.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone know if it is possible to drive a Curtis 1231C at 158V
nominal?
It's possible, but not a good idea. It increases the chances for failure.
When a controller says "144v", that is the nominal battery pack voltage.
A lead-acid cell can range from 1.75v (dead under load) to 2.58v (at the
end of an equalization charging cycle). A 144v pack of lead acid
batteries has 72 cells. So, a 144v pack can actually range from 126v to
186v.
The 1231C has 200vdc rated capacitors, MOSFETs, and diodes. And this is
their new, 25 deg.C rating; it will degrade as it gets hot, and over
time. So, there is essentially no safety margin at all if you leave the
controller connected while charging.
During operation, the pack voltage is lower. But, each time the
controller switches, the voltage spikes up due to the inductive load.
The capacitors and diodes are there to absorb most of this spike, but it
can still easily be 10-20% higher than the average voltage. So, the peak
voltage while driving can be even higher than the peak voltage while
charging.
The bottom line is that you can probably "get away" with the 158v pack
of lithiums, but the controller will eventually fail catastrophically.
If you're spending that much on batteries, I would recommend replacing
the controller with a higher-voltage unit, or having the Curtis rebuilt
with higher voltage MOSFETs, capacitors, and diodes.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ev Performance (Robert Chew) wrote:
Does anyone have a schematic on a parallel/series battery arrangement for a
contactor controller?
I have plenty, and have posted several on the EV list already. Or, send
me a stamped self-addressed envelope and I can mail you some.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
I think we were mainly focusing on DC controllers...
Your module suggestions are for AC drive...
The modules don't actually care, AC or DC. A DC controller is basically
a "half bridge" AC controller.
The only reason to use this module for DC would be
to use one (switching) transistor plus the freewheel
diode from the other transistor to get the two power
parts in one package (and not use the other two).
I suggested MOSFET modules, where you have a MOSFET for both the switch
and freewheel. MOSFETs are faster and can have a lower on-state voltage
drop than diodes. Replacing the diode with a MOSFET improves efficiency
and reduces heating.
This doesn't work with IGBTs. Even the best of them have twice the
voltage drop of a good diode.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ray Wong wrote:
How would these dual trench gate Powerex IGBTs at 1200volts compare?
The 300 amp one has a switch time total of only 630ns and a Vce(sat)
of 1.8 volts. Also available on ebay for about $20 each.
http://www.pwrx.com/pages/search/search_prod_rslts.asp?catid=50&partno=CM300DU-24F&sortby=0&speclist=0&catname=IGBTs
Also available as dual 600 amps modules.
http://www.pwrx.com/pages/search/search_prod_rslts.asp?catid=50&partno=CM600DU-24F&sortby=0&speclist=0&catname=IGBTs
These can be used too, of course. IGBTs are currently fashionable, so
more effort is going into making them better than for MOSFETs. The IGBTs
are getting faster, and their on-state voltage drops are being reduced.
They aren't nearly as good as MOSFETs, but they are cheaper -- and in
most markets, cost is all that matters.
To me, thermal design is the hardest part of a controller -- keeping it
cool, getting the heat out. Anything you do to reduce the amount of
cooling needed will make it much smaller and easier to build. That's why
I lean toward MOSFETs for simple low-voltage controllers. You'll spend
more for the silicon, but less on the heatsinking.
I'd say the crossover point is between 100-200v. Under 100v, use
MOSFETs. Over 200v, use IGBTs. In between, either can work.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So why not buy some untested ones and find out if they are any good?
Are they untested ones pricey? Untested could just be marketing to
entice you to buy their failed units.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "josjam123" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi folks, I am wondering if anyone here has experience in using these
> batteries in their EV project. I would like to know details like
> charger info, what type of BMS and who makes them etc. Also there is
> a big price difference between the tested charged ones and untested
> uncharged ones. If one buys the untested ones, what is the average
> yield form it? Any help and info will be appreciated, thanks.
>
> JJ
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Storm Connors wrote:
> I didn't answer the second question. The charger has an
> ammeter. It stayed steady at 6A. Again, I expected it to
> decline. I really don't want to destroy the batteries. They
> have been sitting for a year so could use exercising, I'm sure.
Typically if you see the voltage dropping, it means the batteries are
heating up. Under the dight conditions, this is called thermal runaway,
and results in the charge current increasing as the voltage drops, such
that the batteries get hotter and hotter until permanent damage results.
I think your charge voltage is too high. A 144V pack is 72 cells and
typical charge voltage for AGMs is in the 2.4-2.45V/cell ballpark at
20-25 degrees C. This corresponds to a charge voltage of 172.8-176.4V
for your pack.
As others have suggested, you should probably charge to a voltage in
this ballpark, then hold that voltage until the current drops to a small
fraction of your pack's C/20 rating. Your battries are 33Ah, and you
have them buddied up, so they are equivalent to a 66Ah battery. The
charge current should drop to something like 0.6A when they are fully
charged, if they are healthy. Since they may not be healthy, you should
watch the current and voltage and stop the charger if the voltage starts
dropping, or if the current stops dropping while the voltage remains at
the target level. The current will taper slowly, so you need to compare
it at perhaps 30min intervals and stop the charger if 3 observations in
a row differ by very little.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have much respect for the others making Controllers, I have one problem,
however-I cant get a quality controller at a reasonable price nor a reasonable
time-frame. I see an opportunity to provide a more reliable source of quality
controllers.
I have no intention of taking any business away from anyone. I want to work
with someone that is well versed in controller design, and HELP them build
something. Neither Otmar nor Rich are interested, I offered my help directly to
them already. Why not leave the Design work to the experts and the
Manufacturing to the experts?
By the way. the reason I ask for some basic information (BOM, schematic, etc)
is to get an INITIAL estimate of cost. How much will the parts cost is sourced
overseas? If we find that the cost of the parts is encouraging, then we take
the next step.
Here is my proposal: Someone acts as the Electrical Engineer providing
specifications for the controller and support during prototype development and
testing. They get Royalties for every unit sold in return.
In the end, more EVs will be built as a result of our work. Isn't that our
ultimate goal after all?
Josh
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Josh wrote :
> I work in the consumer electronics industry ... I have visited
> many factories in China and work closely with overseas
> manufacturers and suppliers.
Warning, rant ahead!
Great, just what we need, twenty cent an hour Chinese sweatshop labor to
bury the good folks on the list who make their living, such as it is,
building high quality EV components.
Josh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since (I think) you're a newbie
here, but how about a little concern for guys like Rich and Otmar, our
friends who work with list members to build what they want and produce a
high quality product? Rich at least has gone into debt to do this.
These guys are producing handbuilt products at mass-production prices, and
damn reasonable ones at that. I doubt that they're getting rich on it, but
they are doing us a real service. Take their living away from them and you
can forget them ever taking part in EVs as a business again.
Sorry if I seem a bit annoyed about this - I am. If we had nobody at all
building the components we need, it would be a different matter, but we are
lucky to have people who do - and whom we can literally call up for help and
support (try that with the guys in China).
I don't want a fight, and I don't want to seem ungrateful, but I really wish
you would take your Chinese manufacturing connections somewhere else and use
them for something else.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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My first post:
I visited 5 AVCON chargers, and was able to charge successfully
from 3. The other two spoke "Charge time exceeded", and shut down after
1 minute.
They would reset for another minute by pushing the charge button.
My charger is a ZIVAN NG3.
1. What is the cause?
2. What is the cure?
John in Sylmar, CA 1981 Electrica Jet conversion with the AVCON adapter box.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a couple of Prestolite MVX4001 with sepex windings. They were surplus
off of Hyster fork lifts for about $125. The motor has a SAE B spline (16/32)
for the drive end and a 1" keyed shaft for a disk brake unit at the other end.
A very nice motor. I am keeping mine until I find or make a good sepex
controller. I have a 400 amp Curtis 1244 for testing but an EV would like at
least 120 volts.
Jim told me someone else had one these and wanted to sell it or wanted to
changed the field coil to a standard 4001 series winding. They may even have a
spare sepex coil for a Prestolite
Ezesport
Chet Fields <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That is a very good question. I do not know of any other than the one that is
in my car. Would it be hard for Jim Husted, ADC, D+D or Warp to make them?
--- Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Do you have a source for affordable, EV size, SepEX motors?
> The controller is not much good without them.
>
> > a copy of the schematics for the motor controller for my EVCort (which
> > unfortunately went south for the winter).
> >
> > It is a Sep Ex controller 108V/400A. It has up to 200A regen, slow on fast
> >
> > In all of this discussion of open DC Controllers and how also the desire
> > for
> > regen and so on, I was thinking, Well, it has been done, I have it right
> > here
> > in my garage and the design is actually about 15 - 20 years old.
> >
> > If it was redesigned to use modern components it could probably be alot
> > smaller
> > and lighter. (It is about 1'x1'x3' with the huge heat sink and must weigh
> > close
> > to 100lbs.) And could even have higher voltage/amperage levels.
> >
> > It does have 4 chopper circuits though, besides the other controll
> > circuitry,
> > and banks and banks of paralleled power transistors. I suppose it really
> > is
> > tens of thousands of dollars of engineering as these vehicles were
> > provided as
> > EV studies, especially for the batteries, and built as part of a DOE
> > program.
> >
> > But now that the company that built them no longer exists (Soleq) and the
> > chief
> > engineer has passed away, could anything be done with the designs?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Chet
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I bought 18 of these M-95 from a Ranger pack that were considered dead. It
took a lot of time but I now have 16 good packs that test to around 90ah at
C/2.
The battery pack can be rebuilt if you have spare cells. Most of the time
there was only one cell that died on each battery.
Too bad there are not a lot of these around. Someone sold 17 of these on
ebay for $5500 just last week.
Ezesport
Death to All Spammers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, that don't make these anymore, so any you find (and where the
heck
> did you find any?) are probably 6-8 years old and may very well be
near
> the end of their useful life.
> Personally, I'd prefer ones that have been tested to insure they
still
> work. The untested, uncharged ones might yield somewhere in the
> neighborhood of zero.
>
But think of what a find if you discovered a cache of several hundred
Panasonic 95AH cells - even if untested and never charged, it would be
worth evaluating each one for potential use, since they aren't suppose
to have the same calender issues. Then again, it's most likely a
pipedream.
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Hello all,
All this discussion about building your own controllers and chargers, etc. has
me wanting to try and build something myself even if it is for nothing more
than to have more appreciation for those that are really doing it.
I was hoping I could get some recommendations on relatively inexpensive (not
completely professional) yet decent (feature rich and easy to use) circuit
design and simulation software. I have done a little searching and found some
free and shareware stuff and other demo software. However, the shareware stuff
is just too complicated to compile and setup and the software for the demo
versions is a little expensive. I would like something like the Electronic
Workbench from a company in Canada but maybe not so feature rich. I'd be
willing to pay up to about $100.
I'm not really interested (at least not yet) in PCB layout and such. Just CAD
and perhaps a little simulation and testing.
Regards,
Chet
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Josh, since I am not an EE I cannot offer much except my vote of support.
Notwithstanding Dave's concerns about China, you might find the list a
little negative at times, finding problems rather than solutions. It might
be a bit of an uphill struggle. However, persevere and you should be
rewarded with customers who simply want to get their conversions done and on
the road.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rocketjosh
Sent: October 27, 2006 11:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: I can build your controller
I have much respect for the others making Controllers, I have one problem,
however-I cant get a quality controller at a reasonable price nor a
reasonable time-frame. I see an opportunity to provide a more reliable
source of quality controllers.
I have no intention of taking any business away from anyone. I want to work
with someone that is well versed in controller design, and HELP them build
something. Neither Otmar nor Rich are interested, I offered my help directly
to them already. Why not leave the Design work to the experts and the
Manufacturing to the experts?
By the way. the reason I ask for some basic information (BOM, schematic,
etc) is to get an INITIAL estimate of cost. How much will the parts cost is
sourced overseas? If we find that the cost of the parts is encouraging, then
we take the next step.
Here is my proposal: Someone acts as the Electrical Engineer providing
specifications for the controller and support during prototype development
and testing. They get Royalties for every unit sold in return.
In the end, more EVs will be built as a result of our work. Isn't that our
ultimate goal after all?
Josh
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Josh wrote :
> I work in the consumer electronics industry ... I have visited many
> factories in China and work closely with overseas manufacturers and
> suppliers.
Warning, rant ahead!
Great, just what we need, twenty cent an hour Chinese sweatshop labor to
bury the good folks on the list who make their living, such as it is,
building high quality EV components.
Josh, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since (I think) you're a newbie
here, but how about a little concern for guys like Rich and Otmar, our
friends who work with list members to build what they want and produce a
high quality product? Rich at least has gone into debt to do this.
These guys are producing handbuilt products at mass-production prices, and
damn reasonable ones at that. I doubt that they're getting rich on it, but
they are doing us a real service. Take their living away from them and you
can forget them ever taking part in EVs as a business again.
Sorry if I seem a bit annoyed about this - I am. If we had nobody at all
building the components we need, it would be a different matter, but we are
lucky to have people who do - and whom we can literally call up for help and
support (try that with the guys in China).
I don't want a fight, and I don't want to seem ungrateful, but I really wish
you would take your Chinese manufacturing connections somewhere else and use
them for something else.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Want to
unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or switch to
digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage
http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
The guys there are out/unavailable, so I won't get it from them until
Monday. I'm looking for specs on a B89-4001.
Anyone? Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If your numbers are correct how does a car with a 100 mile range
> consuming 15kw per hour at 60 mph get recharged overnight by a
> receptacle outputting 1.9 kw continous?
>
> Watts per hour is a watt hr.
> 10 kw for 60 mph driven for one hour is thus 10kw hrs of power.
Is that a trick question? "Overnight" may be 12 hours for many of us... or
22.8 kWh.
What did I miss?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please respond to Frank Directly. ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] )
He is NOT on the list.
( Frank I am forwarding your question to the EV Discussion List.. In
hopes that folks will be able to answer your question. Suggest you
JOIN. It is a wonderful resource...
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: tenant motor-
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:27:00 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
hello, my name is frank walker- I currently live in springfield ga. near
savannah, retired from los alamos national lab.. in 2000 with a bad
heart. have built several LEVS' since 1995, currently building a
motorcycle conversion for the street, going to use a 125 enduro frame
with a small motorcycle trailer to carry additional batteries for longer
rides. I purchased a motor off ebay that was advertised as an etek 36v,
but the motor says' tennant 36 volt. It looks like an etek, but now I'm
worried about finding brushes for it. the etek is out of production but
I found an ev site that has them, but I don't know about the tennant
motor, if they would be the same brush size.If you have any information
I would really appreciate it. I am going to use a power link belt jack
shaft similar to eric piltzer's electric bike to reduce rpm (and noise)
as a primary drive and then standard gear and chain to the tire. should
be alot quieter and save wear on the motor bearing. would like to
incorporate an electric clutch also for coasting or regen. mode but
haven't found one yet that's suitable. Is your motor reverseable? mine
didn't come with any literature. anyway, thanks for your time,
sincerely, frank walker- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
GM is unlikely to produce a SERIAL plug-in hybrid; this article ignores the
fact that the "mild" and "weak parallel" hybrids GM has so far unveiled are not
much to crow about. Or even squeek about.
GM's plans, as I've heard them, are using the DCX "dual-mode" technology, where
a moderate-sized battery can power the vehicle at limp-mode speeds (up to 30
mph) for about 10 miles (thus, about 3 kWh battery pack) mainly for use in
Europe's "combustion-free" inner-city zones.
DCX would not have started this if not for the mandate of the combustion-free
zones; and GM would not have been able to do it without DCX help, IMO.
GM, which had bungled the EV1, has NO engineering capability on its own, IMO,
to reproduce that technology; if anything, they will scab onto the DCX and put
a plug on the tiny battery just to say that its a "plug-in". But the very
small electric motor will not allow driving at highway speeds, so you will not
be able to convert it into a real plug-in hybrid without replacing the motor
with a larger variety.
Look at how the article mangles the story of the EV1, which GM was handed (for
$3M) and yet GM managed to mangle, firing or losing all the smart guys that
created it, and bungling design change after design change to ultimately become
the object of public ridicule for crushing the EV1. They failed at the
engineering, failed at the marketing-manufacturing, and failed even to
capitalize on the fanatically pro-EV1 club of drivers and advocates. GM lost
money, lost credibility, lost allegiance, and turned what could have been a PR
victory into public ridicule.
GM: GOT THE STUPID-COMPANY AWARD.
"...A decade ago, GM was focused on the EV-1, the first modern electric car. It
abandoned the technology because the cars were expensive and needed frequent
recharging..."
THAT HOWLER! THEY ABANDONED THE TECHNOLOGY BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND
IT, AND THEY CRUSHED THE EV1 JUST TO GET RID OF THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY COULD
NOT UNDERSTAND IT!
PS, while the S-10E and 1999 EV1 used Ovnics NiMH, the Ford Ranger-EV and the
Honda EV-plus both used the Toyota-Panasonic EV-95 battery, which went into
production in Feb., 1997 and ended availability shortly after
Chevron-cobasys-ovonics-ener won $30M in a lawsuit against Toyota-Panasonic.
The EV-95 was also used, and is still in use, in Toyota RAV4-EV cars which were
produced up until early 2003, after which they were no longer available.
--- End Message ---
